The One With Ed Dale - I Love Marketing With Joe Polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #91

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hey, everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe.

Polish with a special guest from Australia.

All the way from Australia. Now we can. Now it's official. My favorite Australian is with us, Ed Dale.

Why do you say that before Ed says really anything profound? Why did you just say that, Dean? What are you talking about?

You know why I said it. Because of my great shame and embarrassment that I've known Ed longer than any other Australian, and we ended up having James Schramko on before we had Ed Dale on. And I remember saying that when we had James on. And we love James. James is great. And it's when we recently asked people about their favorite episodes. James was up there pretty high. A lot of people really loved that episode. And, you know, with good reason. He's a brilliant guy, and he made a second favorite Australian, so.

Okay, so you're really saying that Ed is superior to James?

I'm not gonna say. I'm not making any qualitative judgments. I'm not doing that at all. I'm just saying that as my friend and as a. Just a thing of respect, I felt bad that we had James on before we had Ed. Knows what I mean by that. So, I mean, I think public forum Ed to officially apologize to you, even though I've apologized to you in private.

And he does that pretty much by lowering the status of James, but not at all. That's all cool, James. Brilliant.

We've had. Now we've had the two most brilliant Australians in the world on our podcast. Lucky, really.

So, Ed, first off, let's. If you could give a quick version of who you are and what you do and how you're superior to James in every way, that would be really awesome.

Sadly, I believe truth is a defense in all sorts of slander and libel cases. So I'm not about to say that I'm superior to James in any way whatsoever. And of course, the last time you saw James and I together was at I Love Marketing in Phoenix, where you threw us the keys, which is just shows what a cool dude Joe Polish is through your new electric fantastic mobile, the new Fisker. And he said, go on, fellas, take it for a drive.

And that brand new Fisker, I mean, that was like the first, second day of having it.

You gave two Australians the keys to your car.

Since you guys drive on the wrong side of the road, it was sort of an interesting, you know, scenario, but.

You know, I trusted you. I thought I thought it was all good. You did. I saw you had to be escorted into the restaurant about being there. But to ask to, to answer the original question of who am I? I'm a simple country boy from Beechworth in Victoria, which is a tiny, tiny town of 3,000 people in, in Australia. And that's usually how I like to leave my bio. But people may know or have heard of me from the 30 day challenge. Now, the challenge which has trained over 180,000 people to get their start online with an online business, something we're very, very proud of. Of course, now currently with Madcasting and all my work on sort of the iOS and Apple ecosystem that have been done well. And I've been very fortunate to always be thinking about how I exit businesses strategically. And my first company I was able to sell for three and a half million dollars, my second for five million dollars. And we took my company public in September of 2010. So that's it. We have a phrase in Australia which is fig jam. I'll leave your listeners to look that up on the Urban Dictionary. But I'm thrilled to be on here because let's face it, Dean, the reason you're apologizing is bluntly, I begging. I have demeaned myself prostrate myself at the altar of Joe and Dean because I've stolen so much of your material from this podcast that I was desperate to be on it. Let's, let's just, let's get it out there. No positioning statement. I was desperate to be on here, fellas.

Well, first off, it's fantastic to have you here as a guest and in. You gave a just really amazing presentation at I Love Marketing and introduced just some real coolness to the group. And we're going to talk about that today. And also I want to let everyone know since we've talked quite a bit in past episodes of I Love Marketing about Gary Halbert. Ed has spent a lot of time with the late Gary Halbert in the past. And so one of the things that all three of us have in common is knowing that crazy dude by the name of Gary Halbert, but just the understanding and application of direct response marketing just done in different ways. So we got a real direct response guy on the line and you're going to learn some stuff. So Dean, I'll let you know.

I think that's probably a good place to start too because that was really my first introduction to Ed was through Gary, you know, here. That's the first time I heard his name was when Gary had Mentioned, I think he asked me if I had ever heard of him when he was. A lot of people who are listening may remember who have been Gary Halbert letter readers, that Gary was offering an opportunity for somebody to come and spend a month with him and learn, you know, kind of as a protege with him. And Ed was actually the gentleman who got to do that. And I'd love to hear, you know, maybe spend a few minutes, Ed, and talk about some of the things that you learned about that. I know you ended up teaching a lot to Gary about and really changing his attitude about the Internet in general. But I'd love to hear some of the, you know, your biggest lessons from spending all that time with. With Gary.

It was a pretty amazing time. And I ended up working with Gary for six months. I actually hired him. You can read the stories, they're in his newsletters. But the key, it was definitely the most valuable six months I've ever, ever spent. And it's not because necessarily of what the techniques that you see. It's actually watching somebody practice their craft, you know, really intently watching just little things like you just observing how, you know, you saw a Gary Halbert letter and it's this direct response, magnificence. You know, it is just this brilliant piece of writing, and you look at it and you see it and you think, there's no way million years I can do that. And typically, you know, you write out your first draft of a sales letter and you look at it and you look, this is abject poo compared to a Gary Halbert letter. But having him in his process preparing for a sales letter, you realize that his first draft was nothing like the 16th draft, which he typically went through in crafting a sales letter. And the way that he did and the way that he would use a timer and that he would just continuously write for that period of time. And never, like you'd read a draft. I was telling the story at I Love Marketing. You'd read a draft and you'd be going along and be talking about a golf club. And he'd say, this putter is made out of the foreskin of an albino white seal. And I'm going this. And he said, well, I'm not going to miss that in editing, am I? I don't know what the damn things made out of. It doesn't matter. It's made out of something. I just need to find that out. But I'm not going to drop everything and go and find out what that is, because I'll lose My flow. What a powerful person. And you look at every writer. Now that I've had the pleasure of knowing guys like you. Neil Strauss, exactly the same. Neil will write tk, tk, tk. To come. To come. To come. Yet me, as a non professional and amateur, when it came to writing, I'd often, you know, reference a YouTube video in a blog post and of course, I'd go off to grab the link for the YouTube video and writing, yeah, I'm still watching surfing dogs on YouTube. Right. So. So just an understanding that first drafts are not the final product. And giving yourself permission to be really bad in that first draft so that you can edit it. And the fact that I'd be sitting there and he. He'd get on the phone to you. I wonder if you remember this, Dean. Like, he'd call you up and he pretty much wouldn't say anything to you. He'd say, dean, listen to this. That's exactly.

I was just gonna say that, that. So you were there when he was doing that sometimes because what he would do that, he would write a draft and then he. Joe, I'm sure you got these calls too. He'd just call up, not even say anything, but just say, dean, listen to this. And he'd start reading and read the whole letter.

No, he loved. He loves to do that.

I mean, he.

Yeah, I mean, there was never such a thing as a short phone conversation with Gary. What was really interesting about him is until you were in his, like, inner circle, you know, it's impossible to get the guy on the phone, get to know him, you know, whatever. He was like completely inaccessible. But once you were buddies with him, literally it was. I mean, he would just talk forever. It was very interesting. But yeah, you're right, he would love to have sounding boards where he could just go through and improve copy.

And that to me was a real lesson because there's probably so many people listening to this podcast right now that are thinking, wow, I've got to do a piece of copy or a video as good as Joe Polish does it or as good as Dean does his stuff. And we all go through a process of iteration of talking, bouncing ideas off friends like I love. You know, I've been such a huge fan of before, during and after units. I mean, for me, has revolutionized the way. I personally have consulted the Cheese and whiskers episode, episode 24. I can, like, I've got that on like my text expander here on the Mac. So I'm talking to Bam. Just don't talk to me, until you've listened to episode 24 of I Love Marketing Cheese and Whiskers. That concept, that philosophy is amazing. And I've. Fortunately, having known Dean, had seen the genesis and the evolving of that. To take something, of course, which was so. The beauty is its simplicity. But it didn't start there. It evolved. And that's where I think so many people compare their first draft to somebody's final product. And that was incredibly less than I got from Gary.

That's a great point. You know, Gary always used to. You guys have heard it a million times. You'll accomplish more through movement than you will through meditation. And that was really something about him is just, you know, it's a lot easier to maintain momentum than it is to create it and just to keep it going. To keep it going. And I think what you said. It is really. Will be profound if people get it. I mean, in the simplicity of it is people get so caught up in they're not getting it right. But if you look at any work of art and think about the setup, in order to get it there, you make mistakes. I've always loved the line, you got to have a lot of silly thoughts in order to get to the great thoughts. No, that's not always 100% true. You know, sometimes it just works. You know, you'll sit down and you write a letter, you'll shoot a video, you say something, it's perfect. But, you know, in the world that I live in, that's rare that it happens that way. Usually there's a lot of. A lot of stuff you go through, but it's the willingness, the ability to just start it, to get started and keep doing it and keep doing it so very.

Like, a lot of people probably think that the I Love Marketing episodes that they hear are just kind of one take, but they don't hear Joe and I up till 3 in the morning doing 17 versions of it.

I mean, it's exactly what I was.

Sitting there going, okay, how do I respond to that?

I'm totally kidding.

No, no, because Dean, usually before we have to do an episode, he's usually crying because he's nervous, he's throwing up. He's like, we've got. You know, you just told me, like, right before we started, how many episodes were downloaded of the. The recent Mark Thompson episode? How much has that been downloaded?

Yeah, 248,000 now.

248,000 people have downloaded that episode. And of course, that scares Dean because he feels like a fraud, that he's.

Really not this good.

Well, I told Mark that this was a few weeks ago, but right after we had done it in the first week, there was 100 something thousand and he was catching up with Tony Robbins, who had been up for several weeks, you know, and he was having dinner with Tony that night. I told him to tell him he's gaming on him. But the funny thing was, you know, just to put that in perspective, you know, combined they had, you know, 180,000 something, you know, listens. And Mark was saying how he was speaking at, at Radio City Music hall, which has a capacity of 6,000 people. You know, I pointed out that between him and Tony, just on their I love marketing episodes, they'd reached the equivalent of, you know, 32 sold out shows at Radio City Music hall, which is pretty interesting because, you know, here's just two guys and now, you know, sometimes a guest, three people just talking and here we're reaching hundreds of thousands of people. You know, when you put it in perspective, you know, that 250,000 people is a, that's a pretty big city in the United States, you know.

Yeah. You know, and it's, and it's a way to reach people and get information to people. And what's cool about that is. And, well, segue it into Ed, what Ed talked about. You know, Ed can actually share with all of our listeners some very unique ways that you can reach people, communicate with people, share your knowledge, share your wisdom, whatever business you're in. I mean, there's ways to do that. So I'd like to kind of get into that. And I want you to set the stage for this, Dean.

Well, I want to talk about something that. Because I think there's some lessons to be learned through Ed's history here because shortly after spending the time with Gary Halbert, you know, he started something, the challenge that was at the time a 30 day challenge where he was teaching people how to make their first dollar online. And it was free. And you talk about more cheese and less whiskers. There couldn't have been a more whisker free offer than a 30 day training program that other people would be charging thousands of dollars for. And talk a little bit about that, Ed, about how, you know, what, what inspired that. And you know, you kind of took a leap on that, it seems, and it's been the foundation of everything that you've built from there.

Yeah, I wish I could say that it was this genius grand plan that I planned out. Dan Sullivan strategic coaching style. But it was more Gangnam Style than Strategic coaching style when it comes.

I'm just so glad that you actually said Dan Sullivan's name. I mean, we don't even need to.

Say it every episode, ed. We're at 91 now and counting.

So.

I'm a fan, guys. I'm a fan. I know this is the thing, but look, the reason I started it was I was working with Frank Kern at the time. We were part business partners in the underachiever system, which people, some people might remember. And he was taking time off because he's. His second daughter. Just had his second daughter. And I just sold my sites for $5 million. I'd had 38 websites and had sold them and I was pretty happy. And I happened to be. You'll love this. It was just. It was the day after the close of the second season of the Apprentice and there's a Starbucks up on the mezzanine level of the Trump Tower there on Fifth Avenue. And so that all the Apprentice banners and everything up from the close of that second season. And I'm sitting there and I'm having my coffee and I'm reading a biography of Steve Jobs, one of my absolute business hero of all time. And I was reading and it was talking about making a dent in the universe. And. And I'd seen this Apprentice thing and I was also reading another book because being completely adhd, I was reading a book about also how to write a novel in 30 days. And it was a national Writers Month where November.

I remember reading that book too.

Yeah, it's really interesting. And basically the way you write a novel in 30 days is right, 1657 words every single day in November. And you'll have a 50,000 word novel and brilliant. And I loved it. And all these ideas were percolating and I thought, you know what? While Frank's taking time off to spend with the family, why don't I try this? Because I was sick at the time. There was a lot of. So many of the courses out there with how to make money online were all about, you know, here's my product, sell my product to people, then you'll make money and then they'll sell the product and you'll make money making money on teaching people how to make money online. And I just thought that psychologically people see so many incredible success stories, which are true, absolutely true. But I think they just put such huge mental block with people. Like people see million dollar days and hundred thousand dollar months and all of this, and they don't realize that the first and most important thing in A business is to make that first dollar. So the. I right, let's take or meld all these together. Let's see if we can teach people. And 927 people competed in the first challenge. 27. 27 of them were successful. And Dean, I think the first time you and I met officially was I flew all of those people to Orlando from wherever they were around the world to a conference. And we hired. Actually we had.

We had met before that, but I remember that that was very shortly after that that we came to. That you came to Orlando at the Hard Rock there, I believe. And I remember that that was the first time that I ever had a fried. A deep fried Snickers. Because I think you rented out part of Universal.

And I wanted to. Let me ask.

I'm glad you mentioned that that was important.

Well, it really was because it was really something. But I mean, no, that was a cool thing.

Ed.

Ed, actually, I mean, I don't. You know, we're talking about a free class that people took and Ed paid for every person who made their first dollar online to fly to Orlando for conference for a gathering. And how many people were there?

Well, there was 27 of them.

27 people. The very first one. Yeah.

Yeah. And look, it was a wonderful. And that started what became a phenomenal. And it was. There was no. I wish I could say there was a whole bunch of strategic planning, but there wasn't. And it was, you know, if I knew. If I'd known about cheese and Whiskers now, I probably would design it like we did. But we didn't. But it was. It became a wonderful thing and it still exists today. You can go to Challenge Co and you can start today. And it's a self produced course. It's. It's. The quality of it is incredible. Most people would think you'd charge thousands of dollars to do it, but the most important thing was was to get people to take a little bit of action, to get them moving forward, to get that momentum that Halbert inspired, that motion state and state of the integer. That was what it was all about.

Yeah. And you learned a lot going through it. What were some of the big observations that you took away from that and how did you know you kind of evolved it because. How many years did you do it? Seven years, Right.

So far. Yeah. So it was one okay. Couple of really key things and a lot of people listening to. I love marketing. Working in the entrepreneurs in spirit and they may be working in nine to five jobs. Working for the man in Various respects, usually in very, you know, high level positions and so on. And they're either, you know, they're trying to get something started. A lot of the people that I work with are trying to work with something on the side. And a couple of things. One was the power of chunking things down is by giving, realizing that people, and particularly in this day and age, people's attention is so valuable. If somebody actually wants to give me the gift of 30 minutes of their time to watch something, a piece of training that I'm doing, there better be an obtainable outcome at the end of that something that they can look at that and be proud of and say, yep, checkbox, I did that. There's a sense of. Because if you build up that enthusiasm, bank account, if you will, when the inevitable dip comes, that occurs in every single business ever. You know, there's always a time where you think, oh, this is hard. Why, you know, you're in. And that is, I don't care whether you're doing martial arts, a business online carpet cleaning business, I don't. There's always that dip. And the people who are successful are the people who get through that dip. And so by building up the credibility of chunking your training down so that each little segment gets a result, a result that's in that person control. Because then you get to participate in a process. And what I've learned, and Gary was the absolute epitome of this, is that the most creative, the perception out there, I think is that the most creative people are the most wild and carefree people on the planet. And that's absolute rubbish. They are the most process driven people on the planet and that they have a process for their creativity. That, that very much that motion, you know, if Gary was alive today, he'd be sitting there just saying, I told you so, I told you so. With all of the incredible new brain science that's coming out, which is just confirming what he wrote in his newsletters all that time ago. So that chunk, I think I want.

To, you know, I want to say that you're, I want to make a distinction between what you said. The most successfully creative people are process driven. Not necessarily the most creative people, because there's not, it's not about just being creative. The ones who are actually successful being creative are the ones who are able to harness into a process.

That's totally right. Look at Picasso, look at McLaughlin, the Canadian singer, Stephen King, the writer. You know, these are people who've produced, right? To say, you know, to quote Steve Jobs, you know, real artists ship and that. You know that to me and the way you ship is by just doing little chunks of things at time. Like I noticed when you know Joe. What is this with Joe's diet? You know, he took us out to. To all of these, you know, high calorie dessert places. You and I just wanted some vegetarian.

I mean I try and really get him reeled in and tell him he's killing himself but unbelievable.

He would try. Basically tried an intervention. People really what Joe's doing, you know, with his diet. Oh my goodness. Anyway, but I noticed Joe, like he was unbelievable watching him at dinner, you know, ordering up those three deep fried snickers. He watching him phone. He was recording video that he was going to use later on. He was a networking machine. He was recording audio.

I would tell people that living, you know, hanging out with Joe because I spent a lot of time with him. It's like being on a reality show at all times. The flip videos out the. We're just constantly like recording everything that we're.

A lot of people would think, oh, wouldn't that be good to do as a video? But they just didn't do it for whatever reason he at the camera because the lighting's not right or I don't have the right. Yeah, I don't know.

Me included.

I've learned a lot from Joe hanging out like that. Like that's there. You're absolutely right. That's. That's just his go to thought is let's record this.

And the fact that you can do that, I mean, I don't think I.

Love marketing ever would have gotten off the ground if we would have not taken that approach of like me and we're talking one day and we're like, why don't we record this and share it with people?

I remember the first video we did on I love marketing. I think was probably the breakfast cookie video. You know, we're in at Cafe Latte and just pull out the video and find out all about the breakfast cookies.

Well, you know, ever since I saw, you know, many years ago, Truth or Dare, Madonna's movie, you know, I just need to do that. No, but, you know, it's interesting what you're saying. Ed, about process.

How would you define.

I mean, I totally get what you're saying. I just want our listeners to be real clear on what you're saying. How would you define a process?

Two key characteristics. One, being ass on feet and time. And the two, any process to me is a practice. There is a reason why? You know, if you talk to gold medal athletes, they'll all tell you universally that the actual event itself is the most terrifying, horrible part of what they do. They hate it. Competition part. They hate what they have to love. And they have to love it because getting up at 5am in the morning to go swimming every morning of your life to become, you have to love that stuff. You know, you have to be. And it's a process. They get there by. They have, they know when to show up. They show up, they have a routine, right? They have a pre, pre training ritual which gets them into the, to the routine of doing it. And then most importantly guys, they just do it, right? They sit there and they put, you know, the critic that everybody has and you know, I want people to know that everybody has this because it's such a relief to people. I think whenever I start writing a blog post or a new or anything in my head, I'm telling myself, oh, this is crap, this is rubbish. This is ridiculous. Process is all about acknowledging that, saying, okay, it's crap, it's ridiculous. But I'm sitting here for the next 30 minutes and I'm typing. And then to know that that work by following the process, the result that you want will appear. And, and that to me is, you know, the key elements sitting in front of a computer. So many of us sit in front of a computer as a living and it's so easy to confuse time in front of a computer with working on the business. You know, I will speak with people and they tell me, oh, I'm working 12 to 14 hours a day. Well, I'm saying, well, something, a, something dreadfully wrong with that because if you're spending that much time, that's a real problem. And two, when you actually analyze the time that they spent taking action or time watching a YouTube video on dog searching or Call Me maybe or Gangnam Style, you know, that's the difference. And what's remarkable to me is that having the privilege of such good friends to realize that, you know, a lot of them spend a lot of time watching gangnam videos on YouTube.

I mean, you know, we've got a specific friend that was like on that trend way ahead. I think we were probably ed, one of the very first few people to even know about that because we have access to people who do just that.

Here's the thing, here's the difference, okay, here's the difference between as you say, the successful creative and then the person who's just creative is that every single person I know they love to have fun, but they also know that there is go time and there is a time sitting down and they're producing Operation Money Suck. As John Carlton and Gary Halbert would say. There's a time when you lock or, and you produce. And you know, I don't want this to be a rah rah, you know, enthusiast, but that's the difference, right? That's process. To me, it had, it has a number of specific elements, it has a ritual, it has a time slot. And it is action based, right? It's a physics. Unless you apply force to an object, that object is not moving. And unless you prove, you know, apply force, spend energy into your business, guess what? Nothing happens. And watching YouTube or watching a course or watching a video is not the same as doing it. And that's what I realized with the challenge was that so many people, it was by getting them to, forcing them effectively to just do five minutes of action. If you can do five minutes of action. Oh, and gosh, there's another lesson right there. A lot of people try to cram, okay? We look at the, you look at the stats of the challenge and you can see Saturday and Sunday, there's a huge spike. And the most successful challenges for people who are successful, guess what, they're there half an hour a day each day during the challenge, the crackers inevitably are the ones who drop out. You know, it's a 12 step program. You know, the 12. The wisdom in a 12 step program is the greatest fundamental wisdom on the planet. There's a reason it works because it's taking things one day at a time. You know, that to me, that seeing people who realize that rather than trying to cram and spend seven hours on something, if you can get into the habit of spending half an hour a day each day, that's where you get the, that's where you get the momentum. And there's, gosh, there's that great study, that recent study that just came out of the. The how do you prefer the violinists, the top violinists in the German Orchestra, the German Philharmonic Orchestra, and the difference between the masters and then the people who are in second violin, all of them are amazing violinists, right? Who do you think actually spent more time on training? The second violinist or the lead violinist?

You mean you think the lead violinist.

The lead violinist. Right, but it was the second violinist, the lead violinist. But here's the difference. The focus time that they spent training and working on a specific thing was far more focused. So that they. And it was more like it was, it was very much process driven. Whereas the second violinist, they spent a lot of time sitting there, but it was unstructured. Right. And it was regular and it wasn't a specific, you know, and the shorter sessions, you know, my daughters all do Suzuki piano training, and it's incredibly effective. They play way more pieces of music than I ever did in learning piano for 12 years. And it's because it's small chunks every day, beats cramming every single day of the week. And that was a huge challenge.

That's like, that's some really good stuff. I'm glad you shared all that.

Yeah, I was amazing. You know, you were saying how in order to do that, you know, you had to really think out the process of the promise, you know, because the promise of the 30 day challenge was how to make your first dollar online. So you had to think through what do you have to do to make your first dollar. And like you said, there were all the little benchmarks, you know, that you, you have to. You have to accomplish. And that was the same process that I had to go through for our Project Cyrus program, giving our website to the real estate agents to have to go through and know that if I can just get them to do these benchmarks and we, you know, I know I can see where they're not, you know, where there's any friction or what they actually need to do next, all the way to getting their first transaction. Because, you know, like, doing their first transaction is very similar to making your first dollar, you know, before, if you're going to do 100 transactions, you got to do the first one first.

Absolutely.

And, you know, if there's friction in the process, guess what, that's your problem. That's not your customer's problem.

That's not exactly right. And that was that, you know, that this is such a compliment to episode 82, where we talked about getting results, you know, and that you have to know that that's your. It's your problem. You know, I had somebody say one time that, you know, you can't care. I can't care about this more than they do. And I said, well, you know, really, you have to, you have to care about it more than they do or, or you're going to be broke.

You know, look, totally my favorite. You know, I'm such a fan of questions. And the reason I love, I love marketing so much is that you two just give and create such amazing questions. One that you guys didn't give me, but a guy called Horace Dew first Introduced me to which I've used a lot, which is such a. So dovetailed into everything that you guys do is to ask yourself, what is the job this thing has been hired to do?

That's a brilliant question.

Because now where I said thing, you could say webpage, website, ad, course, whatever it is, what is the job that thing has been hired to do? This is extraordinary because the answer to that, or indeed in most cases, the lack of an answer to that is often the key to unlocking a business. And here's the great news. You can ask that question before you spend a dollar. Because when you're conceptualizing, you need to understand what is the job your product or service is being hired to do. Because it's not a carpet cleaning. That's not the, you know, the carpet cleaning is the mud, as Gary Halbert would say. It's the process. It's what that delivers, what that brings to that. It's, you know, that feeling and so on, which is such a big deal. And I think when you apply that question, see, so often when I'm working with somebody who's got a website, they'll think, I want more opt ins. I'm saying, okay, great, that's what you want. That's excellent. So you've designed this page to get more opt ins. But when somebody arrives at this page, what are they expecting? What is the job they're hiring this page to do? And often it's completely different because how many people go to a website, think, oh, I'd like to opt in with my email address today.

Let's go see if we can find someplace to opt in.

Awesome. Let's go on an opt in hunt. Let's talk what we're doing yet if you. For so many people, that's what they're thinking about. They're thinking about that. And you said something profound at our Austin meeting last year, Dean, was that people are so excited with one opt in rates and guys in our industry that we've all learned from would be devastated at those sorts of things because we're not thinking about the job that our thing was hired to do. And to me is such a powerful question. And it dovetails so beautifully to before, during and after.

That's what I'm trying to say.

Pretty much that is what Joe, I could hear him trying to say that.

I was right there.

I want to talk about what you shared with us at the I Love Marketing conference because it was really, I mean, people were sitting on the edge of their seats and you know, it Was really kind of interesting to see. You start with the history of, you know, imagine if you were around when you saw the Time magazine cover, the first mention of the Internet, which was, when was that? That was in 1995, was it July 20, 1994? July 20, 1994. And I say, why don't you pick it up from there and tell the story?

When I had the privilege of speaking, I love marketing and it was great because I was following the Incredible Hulk. So we went from the Incredible Hulk to the Incredible Bulk. And I, I said the point. I was like, you know, everybody looks back at that era of the start of the Internet. And I was, I was just making the point that in 1994, if you happen to pick up that Time cover and thought, wow, this is huge, I'm going to do something, then you probably did pretty darn well. I know I did. But I also wanted to make the point. What if you actually left it four years? And indeed in 1998, instead of watching the most recent south park episode, the new hot TV show, you said, you know what, this Internet thing might have legs. This is four years after, right. The discovery, the so called public could have you done well. And the answer was absolutely bloody oath you could have done well. You know, people did really well if they decide. So there was this huge gap four years. And you know, I lived through that time. I sold my business during that time for three and a half million dollars, which was awesome. But it was accident. It was pure ass. And I thought, and one of the great regrets has always been, damn it, if only I knew what I know now, back then, boy, I would have done some damage. And yet here we are today. And the point of my presentation was that we're seeing something happening now which is absolutely dwarfing anything that happened with the Internet. And that of course is this smartphone and tablet revolution. You know, I knew. Born out of, you know, remember 2007, July of 2007, June 2007, the iPhone was released. Yeah, I was released In April of 2010, two and a bit years ago.

And amazing how you think about that. The iPad just is so, so prevalent now everywhere.

Here's the stat, here's the stat. 82 million iPads have been sold in the first 2 and 1. 30 year, 2 years and 3 months. Okay, so the first 9 quarters of its existence, 82 million iPads. Let me put that in perspective for everybody, because if you just say the number 82 million. Yeah, that sounds like a few. Guess what, folks, Nothing in human history, nothing ever ever in existence, ever sold, or indeed was given away 82 million of anything in its first two years. Coke, not McDonald's, not Google users, not Netscape browser downloads. And the iPad was, for the first two years of its life, $499, right? Unprecedented. This is absolute unprecedented. And I just, in just two days ago, it was a study on apps. And I just ask everybody, you know, listening to this now, you know, when was the last time you bought an app? Typically the answers, somewhere between 24 and 48 hours. The average iPhone user downloads 137 apps per year. And here's the thing. Get this. Think about the Internet at its prime and web surfing and web browsing at its prime, okay? App usage is dwarfing, like, it is a quantum leap ahead. People spend more time in apps and on their phone and on their iPad than they ever did ever, ever, ever did on a computer. And yet look at the fortunes that were made out of the Internet. So all of a sudden I'm sitting here thinking, well, hang on a second. I thought, you know, I was sitting there bemoaning the fact that I really didn't know enough to take advantage of what happened in the dot com era. And here we are right now, not four years in, fellas, about three years in. Because the App Store, this is what people don't realize. The App Store has only been in existence for three and a half years and it's changed the world and the dollars that are involved and everything that's involved. And to me, if you don't have an understanding of this, and if you're thinking, oh, well, that smartphone stuff, that tablet stuff, that doesn't really apply to me. Well, just look around. You know, we remember when we asked people to hold their hands up of how many people had an iPad in the audience that I love marketing. It was a vast majority. It was at least 75%. It is phenomenal. So to me, it's incredibly exciting because we are in 1998 again, and the opportunities for people to be able to do something and plant a flag. I love the embarrassing, really, that Tom Cruise movie Far and Away, when me and Nicole were cracking square. And the final scene of that is they traveled all across the country to claim their piece of land in California, Oklahoma or whatever. Yeah, yeah. And he's got the whole. Wherever he was going and he's plant the flag. And it's a bit like that right now. And that, to me, is what's so, you know, the numbers are irrefutable. And again, I just, just Go outside, just look around, you know, just ask yourself how often you're spending with your phone as compared to sitting in front of a computer.

You know, actually now you say it, you know, it's almost like now is almost a, a better time than if you had been four years ago. I mean for most people, because it's now got critical mass already. It's not sort of. You don't have to patiently wait for it to build its mass over the, over the. What it's done over the last two and a half years. It's all, it's there now. There's already 82 million people.

Yeah, that's. Well, there are 400. Just get this. There are 400 million active credit cards registered with Apple, right, in 155 countries around the world. You know that there's no other business in the world, including Amazon I might add, which is Amazon I love, but of course is the United States. Really. They're incredibly persuasive there. But you know, everywhere else, no, but Apple is extraordinary in that. And so this, this whole, this whole revolution is exciting. And I was of course looking well, how do we get involved with this, you know, how do we do something in this that relates back to my heritage because my passion and my love really has been information publishing. You know, I very. Speaking of Tom Cruise, you know, I almost became bankrupt trying to publish a NASCAR magazine in Australia. I'm glad we waited till the end of the podcast to mention that, otherwise you might have had a bit of a drop off earlier. But you know, to me I always love that and always, you know, ebooks and all of these things and delighting people and showing them how to do something they're passionate and they really like has always been very close to my heart. And we ended up coming up with and which I was very, I loved presenting at. I love marketing. We've created this new product called magcast which now enables people to use this very cool part, very new part, it's only a year old of Apple, which is the newsstand, which is on the front of everybody's iPhone. Most people looking at it going, what is that thing and why can't I get rid of it? This was what an incredible opportunity this thing was.

Well, so I'd love to have you explain because you're right, how many iPhone5s have been sold as of now? Do you know the numbers on this?

In the first three days, it was the, it was the biggest, we talked about launches while the iPhone 5 was the biggest launch of all time they sold $3.5 billion worth of iPhone in the first opening weekend. As you would compare it to a movie or so on. So they, they sold 5 million iPhones in that first weekend. So you know, they haven't released any more numbers apart from that. But it's the most successful product launch in history.

Yes. So like, you know, take back John.

Reese and his million dollar day.

Exactly.

That's funny.

So, you know, you said something really important there. Ed is, you know, with Newsstand, and that's obviously what you talked about at the I love marketing two conference. And so people that are aware of that are aware of that and people that are not, why should they be aware of that? Why should they care?

So here's the thing. When the iPad was launched, the magazine industry was so excited because it seemed like it was a marriage made in heaven. Here's this magazine sized device that looked like the perfect thing to be able to display and show magazines. Unfortunately, in the first year, magazines were a disaster. It was hopeless. And the reason it was hopeless was because when you wanted to say, I want to read the latest Wired magazine or the New Yorker, you tap on the app and then you'd have to download the issue. And you have to literally stand there waiting for this thing to download. And even on a fast connection, it would take five to 10 minutes for the magazine to download. And one of the reasons the iPad has become this amazing phenom is of course it's all about instant. You know, Joe and Jane Smith don't want to wait for anything. They're used to clicking on their remote and the tv, changing the channel. Anything that takes any longer than that is not interesting. And same goes with apps and the iPhone. And one of the reasons being so successful is because of this. So it was a disaster. So Apple realized this and last year at wwdc, which is where all the Apple programmers and everybody get together, they released this thing called Newsstand. And what it would allow you to do is it would allow you to download a magazine overnight. Bit like a paperboy delivering like magic. So you would be able to get that. You think, oh great, there's a new issue of my magazine. You tap on the button, it's right there on the front page of every person's iPad and you look at it and there it is, there's a new edition and it's there like magic. So you can think, I want to read the magazine. And you can be reading the magazine in seconds. This was huge. When we saw that, we thought, wow, that's really cool. And unlike most apps, for example, most people realize you can't offer free trials with apps. You can't have subscriptions with apps. Like, you can't have continuity programs with apps. Yet announced with Newsstand that they would allow continuity, they would allow subscribers. And get this, you know, most of us have, you know, if anybody's ever run any sort of continuity or membership program, you know, what a pain in the neck these things are. You know how bad it is, you know, to try, keep and maintain people's credit cards. When they change their credit cards, their membership lapses. You have to fill out all these details, you have to do all these horrible things. It's a disaster, right? It's an absolute abject mess. Yet, of course, what do you have to do when you download an app on the iPhone? It's key to success. Tap one little blue button, type in a password, press enter, you're done, that's it, you're subscribed. And we saw this and said, hey, so Apple looks after all of the credit card purchases. They just wire us the money every month. You can do continuity, you can offer free trials, which is something that you can't do. And then when we looked at the people were obviously just putting magazines up and we looked at that, we thought, well, you know, putting a magazine, there is one thing, but goodness gracious, you know, you can imagine, right, that you can use video, you can use audio, you can have PDFs, you can have live web pages, you can have all of these things. So we thought, well, hang on a second. That what I just described then is pretty much every course that I've ever produced. So hang on a second, you can provide all sorts of amazing content, do it on a continuity, have membership, and then have it super easy for people to subscribe. And by the way, just for icing on the cake, this is the only place. Amazon won't do this, Kindle won't do this. Apple if, when you subscribe to a magazine on the newsstand, Apple says, look, would you mind passing your zip code and email onto the publisher? And currently 93% of people say yes, which means you get their itunes email.

Which is incredibly opt in.

The opt in rate is incredible. So building list.

And you're not getting their throwaway email.

No, you're not getting the. You're not getting the. That's right, the dodgy email. You are getting the email that they always want to have current because they want to buy Courtney maybe, you know, at a moment's notice or Download is the latest Gangnam Style, right? So this was incredibly exciting to us. And then the other thing, if you look at this perfect storm situation, so we had the newsstand with all these amazing things, then we've got this incredible phenomenon of outsourcing. You know, you can now, you know, it used to cost me $30,000, makes me cringe to publish a traditional magazine each month. Now for a hundred bucks, you can get a beautifully designed magazine. You provide the content. And there are thousands of people across this great planet of ours who are just ready and waiting to and be thrilled at the opportunity to design your magazine. And so all of a sudden this huge roadblock, which used to be incredibly expensive, all of a sudden became a non issue. And then the third final part of it of course is there's never been more content than now. It's unbelievable. Every two days we produce the same amount of content as was produced between the year.in 2003 according to Google. You know, it's unbelievable. So here we are, we've been talking about attention all through this podcast and here we were where people don't have the time to go out and find all the best, you know, kite surfing videos and YouTubes and blog articles and so on. Yet you as a publisher, as a curator could go and approach these people and say, hey, would you like to be in my new iPad magazine? We'd love to feature you and give you a link back. And if you've got a website, we'd love to put the website in the magazine. And the results have been absolutely unbelievable. As of today, 120 days since we launched Magcast, which is the system that we, that we put Together for this, 155 people have published their first magazine.

Wow.

It's unbelievable. I've never seen anything like it. I'm horribly biased, but I've never seen anything like this. And the, and here's the thing we showed on at I love marketing the health and fitness section of the newsstand. Now you guys both know that if somebody comes to you and says I'd really like to do a website in some sort of health or fitness or self development or new age Target, you'd sort of say, hey, how much money have you got?

Right?

Because market, right? Well, guess what? Of the top 12 magazines on the newsstand, eight of them as of last week in the is the, this is the United States itunes store, right? The most competitive itunes store on the planet, Only two of them were not madcasters. The first four top paid. The first four Top free. They're outselling. Madcasters are outselling readers Digest and WebMD magazine. It's phenomenal. This is incredible traffic inside the Nissan store. And, you know, it's just. It's a real phenomena, and it's the most exciting thing I've ever been a part of. And we are.

You know, it really is getting to the point where there are zero obstacles. There's no friction to doing things. Like, you know, you think about, you know, it's what Paul Zane Pilzer calls economic alchemy. You know, you're able to create something from nothing, really. And you think about the times that we're living in right now, even with podcasting. Think about 10 years ago, what would it have taken to get our message out to 248,000 people? It would have been cost prohibitive to do that. There's no way to do that. Now you. We post it up on itunes. People download it on their iPad or their iPhone or their ipod or they listen online. And, you know, now you're saying the same thing. But in 10 years ago, to produce a magazine, you were spending $30,000 per episode per issue, and now you could do that same thing for $100 just having somebody compile it all and get it nicely designed and then deliver it straight to all these iPads with zero production costs.

Now it really is a wonderful time. When you think about it, it's it and the ability for people, what. What technology does, you know, and I always try to point out to people, it's not the fundamentals of marketing don't go away because you've got this new technology or this new way of doing things. Fundamentals don't disappear at all. What you've got here, though, is you've got a huge market of people, over 400 million people, searching the App store and itunes, you know, every single month. And they're buying. And the Kindle books, which I love, and I love Kindle publishing, you know, there's over a million Kindle titles right, in the Newsstand. There's just 5,000 magazines in around the world, Right. Including foreign languages and so on. Right. So it is just crazy, you know? And what was wonderful at the I Love Marketing event was to see so many madcasters in the audience who had published a German women's business magazine in Monica.

Yeah, exactly.

Annaline Dinkelman and her Dinks New York, which is like a travel guide for New York, because she did into us, right? So. So now she's got her own magazine. And think of the influence and market positioning that gives somebody to say, oh yeah, I'm a magazine publisher.

Right.

It's unlawful.

And well, so, so soon to be.

How do we.

Dean Jackson and Joe Polish. Yes, we're very, we were very proud to unveil what you helped us with on creating our very first I Love Marketing iPad magazine.

So that begs the question, what do people need to do in order to go find that and start reading?

Will be up very shortly, won't it Ed?

Yeah, absolutely. Very short. And you put all the details on the blog and show people, and this is the great thing, how cool this stuff is. Apple gives you a little bit of code and you put this on your blog, on the Ilove Marketing blog. So anytime somebody is looking at that blog on an iPad, this little banner will come up at the very top of the website. Won't go over the top of it, just a very subtle over the top. And if it detects that they haven't yet downloaded I love Marketing Magazine. How dare they not have downloaded that without having an iPad. And having an iPad, it will. You just press one button and it will download in the background for them. It's amazing. You know, the marketing is phenomenal. So that'll be up on the site very shortly. And it'll be up, which is fantastic. I can't wait to. We saw that. We've been playing with the prototype. It's brilliant. You can listen to the podcast, you can read the transcripts.

Yeah, that was what was amazing. You can listen to the podcast right on there. I mean in our premiere issue we put in, you know what, we asked our listeners what their favorite episodes were. But we put the 10, you know what, we kind of took their input and our own input and put kind of the 10, you know, best episodes that give you the best overview. Put up some of the interviews with Tony Robbins, Richard, Richard Branson, Tim Ferriss, Gary Vaynerchuk. I mean the whole, all the best selling authors, some of the best Internet marketers and having all of that right there is just, it's amazing.

Yeah. And when I think about the corporate market and what people can do in real traditional businesses, you know, how they can use the magazine to create local magazines. So their local businesses or if they're, you know, they're, they're a big church and you know, they spend huge amounts of money publishing magazines each week. Right. For services and stuff via version to their own. It really is quite, you know, it's wonderful. And I think what's great is it's Such a. It's a natural thing for people to be. If you're passionate about a particular area. People don't realize, you know, I was just listening to another podcast the other day. Both Reader's Digest and Time magazine both started out purely as curation. Magazines read as diet was all about taking the best articles from all these newfangled magazines at the time or too many for the lead. So they curated the best articles and put them together. Time magazine actually started off as taking the best articles each week from New York's newspapers, rewriting them and putting them into Imagazine as a collation. You know, people. People think, why would people pay for something that they could potentially find and read somewhere else? They will, because you're. You're curating, you're using your publishing judgment and you're putting it all in one place for them. So if they can. If they are kite surfers, they can get the best of kite surfing all in one place. You know, if their lawyers in Los Angeles, they can get all the information relating to being a lawyer in Los Angeles all in one place. And that's pretty exciting.

What if, like Joe, they're fans of albino pig wrestling?

Yeah, exactly.

I mean, you know, hard it is to compile information all over the.

I mean, all that data, but it's organized.

Yeah, yeah, a video on that. But I'm not sure Apple would approve a lot of that Joe Polish albino white pig wrestling video.

Look, here is the deal. A couple things. One, we are at our time limit. And two, this is such an important, I think, amazing, awesome thing. Plus there are visuals with it that what we need to do, Dean, is we need to take the presentation that Ed gave at I Love Marketing, and I think we need to put it up on that he gave at the I Love Marketing conference.

That's a great idea. That's a great idea.

Put it up.

And you know what I loved about that too, is editing. Ran his whole presentation from his iPad.

Yes.

So people will see the visuals and stuff that he used. All the slides. It was really well done. That's a great idea. Let's put that up. We'll put the whole thing up right along with this episode. So if you're listening on itunes right now or listening on your iPad, just go to ilovemarketing.com and you'll see it right there. We'll it put the video right up on the blog.

And I think we should like, make them pay to watch it. There should be password protection and all that. Don't You.

Well, I definitely think we should make it available that they can get Ed's magcast program to be able to publish their own. Can we do that?

Well, I think we should just charge for my introduction too when we're up there introducing.

That too. But I know it's not officially open Ed, but I know now live, putting you on the spot like this. Can we still get our listeners a chance to get.

We'll do. But what we'll do is because, you know, because bluntly, I've been desperate to get onto I love marketing for. Since it started. So I would love to be able to offer up to I love marketing listeners if this is something that they're interested in. Of course we'll work something out, guys. Be happy to.

Perfect. I think you're going to find we've got some really creative people here. I was just fascinated sitting there because I just sat right up there right beside the stage the whole time when you're talking, taking notes and watching the whole thing. And I was amazed at just how many ideas. I mean you kind of alluded to it talking about things like church bulletins and I mean local, you know, people don't have to think, you know, big international publication. This is really like there's a real business opportunity here.

Really. I don't think we've seen anywhere near. You've got 155 madcasters out there at the moment who've published and they're out in the wild, which is incredible implementation that I don't think we've even scratched the surface of this. You know, I just can't wait to see what people will come up with. And I think it'd be very.

Yeah. And I mean, I think once people see also what we're doing, it'll, you know, because we. I think in a lot of ways not only do we give people incredibly useful direction, advice, strategies, etc. On I love marketing, but we also create a model that many people can replicate. We recommend we have meetup groups for I love marketing members. So there's a lot of show and tell that take place at the different groups where people meet live. People can look at what we're doing and see what exactly we're doing and then they can utilize the same sort of processes in their own business. Yep. This is one more incredibly valuable way to reach and communicate and package what it is you do. So, yeah, everyone check out ilovemarketing.com if you're listening on itunes and go watch the presentation from Ed. I also got to Put a plug into this and then. And we'll do Final Last Words. Ray Kurzweil's new book, how to Create a Mind. Go to Amazon and buy it and if it's not available yet, pre order it. But it will blow your mind. I've read it. Ray is a friend of mine and I'll put up some videos with him on I love marketing too, at some point. But go get that book because I'm going to be pimping in that book for a while because it's cool and it'll make you think. And since I'm a platinum partner at Singularity University that Peter Diamandis and Ray Kurzweil created and founded, I sort of like that stuff. All right, so coming back to Ed, Ed, based on what you've said tonight and what you just introduced and what they're going to watch in your presentation, what's the biggest takeaway and message that you would like to leave listeners with? Because you're really about helping people improve their first off, get into movement. You're about innovation and you're about really powerful marketing to build and grow a successful business, big or small. So what's the big takeaway for people to watch the presentation? What will they walk away with other than just a cool new technology?

I hope underlying all of that and then listening to, I love marketing and listening to all the stuff that you guys do that whatever path they take, whether it be magcast, whether it be anything else, I just hope they understand that there's never been a better time in history for you to start something up or improve something. And the trick, the absolute trick of it has got nothing to do with technology, nothing to do with where you are or position or location or anything. It's got everything to do with just getting into that practice by taking it and chunking it down and just doing a little bit of action every single day, you won't notice much of a difference in that seven days, but you'll make, you will make a significant difference. And that's what we did with Nancast. We tried to break everything down into its little bit. So, you know, first few days, what am I doing? But then by six weeks, you're a magazine publisher. It's unbelievable. Chunking it down. I think whatever you do, don't try to do it all in one. Don't try to cram chunk it down.

Beautiful. Yeah.

That's awesome.

So, Dean, last words to you and.

Then thanks so much for, for Sharon. I'm glad that you came on.

Do you think? Do you think James is now shamed?

No, I think James is a brilliant, brilliant man. And I'm excited that we had James on. I was just out of respect for my long term friendship with Ed Dale.

Now in James is Cole. And knowing James, he's probably going to put this on his podcast and share it with everybody.

That's true. James is a. He's a beautiful man. That's true. And it doesn't take anything away from my feelings for James either. I love James. Yeah.

This is a love fest. Did I love my.

He's a brilliant man. Australia contained both of them. Yeah.

Ed, thank you. Great stuff. You're awesome. Really appreciate it. And I hope that everyone listens to this episode about 10 times and shares it with anyone that, you know is not in the movement stage. Because I think a lot of what you shared about just, you know, it's just getting into motion and just doing something and not being your biggest critic and stopping yourself, I think, you know, that that alone is just so valuable. And so thank you.

Awesome. Good night, everybody. Yes.

Good.