The One With Social Media Strategy Consultant Amy Porterfield - I Love Marketing With Joe polish And Dean Jackson - Episode #107

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hey, everybody, it's Dean Jackson and Joe Polish.

And a very special guest by the name of. And this is your cue, Amy. What's your name?

Amy Porterfield.

Yes.

Nice. The.

Fantastic.

That's right, the Amy Porterfield.

Yep. And I was having a conversation the other day with Marie Forleo, our good friend who we've done episodes with. I love marketing. And I was just, you know, asking her who's the smartest social media person that you know? And she said, you know, who's amazing and who's actually making money with it, not just teaching it, but really has built a whole business around it, is Amy Porterfield. And so I was like, yep, that's who we need to be doing a special episode with. And so here's what I'll do. First, we usually don't read people's bios. We just say, what are you doing? We're going to ask Amy that in a minute, but I'll just share a short version. So she co authored the Facebook Marketing all in One for Dummies book, which I've got sitting right in front of me, the second edition. This thing's gigantic. You could actually kill somebody with it, which I. We wouldn't recommend. Or you can read it and you can learn more things than you could ever fathom about Facebook. And she's also the creator and host of Online Marketing Made Easy podcast, which all of you may want to go listen to. She's got 14 years marketing experience. She's worked with mega brands like Harley Davidson Motorcycles and Peak Performance coach Tony Robbins, where for six years, she oversaw Tony's content development team and collaborated on many multiple online marketing campaigns. And she creates online programs that teach entrepreneurs and small businesses all over the world and through many different industries how to leverage social media to gain greater exposure, attract quality leads, and turn their fans and followers into loyal customers. And you can find out all kinds of cool stuff about Amy at her website, which is Amy Porterfield. P O R T E R F I e l d amyporterfield.com but beyond that, she probably has weird hobbies and tells jokes. I don't know. I don't know. But Amy, like inappropriate.

Yeah.

What is something really cool about you that most people would never know?

Ooh, come on. You're starting with the hard stuff. Well, I don't tell good jokes. I've never been able to even remember a joke, so that probably wouldn't be one of them. But something cool about me? Well, I have to say, back in the day when I worked with Harley Davidson, I was really into motorcycles and I got my motorcycle license and I was really excited about it, and I probably used it one time and was so freaked out when I got on the open road that I'm thinking, no way. So I always say I worked for Harley Davidson, but I was not a biker chick by any means. I tried.

That's so funny.

No, that is actually pretty funny. And, you know, the interesting thing about Harley, and we've mentioned this on past episodes, is that, you know, it's one of those brands because we've, you know, we have opinions about brands and you know, so well. However, like Harley, if you think about that company where you literally get your clientele to tattoo the name of your company on their bodies, I mean, there's some real serious brand loyalty to that organization.

Yeah, that's what I always say. I learned from the best. I got to learn from people that tattoo the brand on their body. And then I went over and learned from Tony Robbins. I mean, I had a pretty good training, so I better do well because I had some good teachers.

Yeah. And one last thing before of useless information just to waste another few seconds of people's lives regarding stuff that's not relevant to marketing. You know, what most people probably don't know about me is that I've only. Not that they would care, but I've only ridden motorcycles, like, maybe two or three times myself. I never really rode a motorcycle. I used to race BMX bikes and stuff like that, but I never got into motorcycles. And I was going to give away a Harley as one of my contest prizes for a better, your best contest. I don't know, this is probably about four or five years ago, and I was like, you know, and before, you know, Jesse James had his whole episode with, you know, finding out that he had been having an affair with his wife at the time, Sandra Bullock. You know, I'd actually gone Baja racing and had lunch with Jesse James and all kinds of crazy stuff. And he seemed like a pretty cool dude, and he was going to build a bike for me, and I was talking with him about doing one. I'm glad I didn't, because after the PR thing, I don't think it would have been a good idea. But that being said, I'm sure it would have been a great bike, but I was going to give one away. So I literally went to the motorcycle school, which was like a weekend course here, and I sat through half A day. And at the time, and I was like, I'm kind of bored out of my school. I don't think I really want to do this. And so I just never went back and did it.

That's.

Again, see, like I said, that would totally waste people's time listening to that. But that's one thing I've not picked up now.

Yeah, so now you just ride the chopper at the supermarket, right?

Well, no, like, when we go to Orlando theme park, I'll hop on one of those ones sitting there. People actually think I, you know, But I've done some, you know, I've jumped out of airplanes twice. I mean, I've done some pretty wacky stuff. So it's not that I don't. I'm not, you know, I'm not into extreme things. It's just motorcycles has just not been one thing. I just haven't had that experience. All right, so, Amy, we're going to talk about some really awesome Facebook marketing strategies. Social media. We'll do a lot of this, really, around Facebook, because it's something that so many people have, obviously spending time. I think it's one of these phenomena that over the last few years, if you would ask people 10 years ago, do you think you'd be devoting 10 minutes or three to four hours a day on a particular website, interacting? I don't think anyone would have, you know, would have ever imagined this would be taking place in the world. But there's all kinds of places where people spend time. Facebook is just one of those. But you are. Why should someone take your advice, though? I mean, out of all the people that are out there talking about it, why you?

You know, I think. What?

No, I was just going to say that's my devil's advocate question. I mean, I already know the answer because I know you're smart and you know a ton about this. But for people that have never heard of you or may not know you, why should they listen to you?

Why should they listen to me? Well, I will say that over the last few years, I pretty much have. I eat, breathe, and sleep Facebook. I mean, the fact that I wrote the book is one reason, because I really had to know everything about it. But really, why I think that I can add value to people when it comes to Facebook marketing is because I have been behind the trenches. So when I first started with Facebook marketing, I started with Tony's Facebook page, but from there, I went on to work with some smaller businesses, but helped them grow a really big Facebook community. But it didn't just stop there. I wanted to figure out, well, how do we make money with this? How do we get more leads with this? That's really where I focus on. So not only have I had a great track record, Social Media examiner was a Facebook page that I helped start with the owner, Mike Stelzner. But now it's over. I think he just hit 200,000 fans. But the great thing about that is his page has allowed him to build a multi million dollar company on these online summits he does. And so the fact that I got to be a part of that from the beginning, I really got to see what worked and what didn't work. And I think my time with Tony Robbins has taught me pay attention to really what's working. Keep modeling that and completely ignore those things that don't work, don't do them anymore, stop them. So I really pay attention to that, and that's what I teach. So a great track record, but also just paying attention to what people are responding to, what they want to see more of, what they don't want to see more of. And I kind of work that all into my Facebook strategies.

Awesome. I like it. So go ahead, Dean, because I can just hit Amy with a bazillion questions, but I want to give you an opportunity to talk. Since the last few episodes, it's only been you talking.

Yeah, exactly. My throat's a little sore still from all the last talking. I'm excited when she talks about getting leads from Facebook and getting actually the mechanics of building something on the back of a Facebook fan page. And I think a lot of times business owners are thinking, well, what do I. I know everybody's on Facebook, but where do I start? Like, what do I do to generate these leads? And what difference is it really any good for me just to get people to like my fan page is that, you know, we come from a kind of a hardline world where people are so focused. If I get a name and an email address, I can mail my list and all that kind of stuff. So I think it would be valuable for you to maybe share the different options on Facebook and how you can use them in your business, even if you're kind of just used to building an opt in list.

Perfect. Okay, so let's start with the like, because getting the like or getting a fan, you know, years ago, that was all I pretty much talked about. When I first started teaching Facebook, it was all about how to get more fans. Now, to fast forward to today, I definitely, really believe that that lead on Facebook is so much more valuable than that. Like, and we'll get to that in a minute because I want to talk all about list building with Facebook. But getting back to that, like, there are some perks to making sure you have a solid Facebook page that actually does have a lot of fans. Now, the reason why having a fan on Facebook is so important, there's about three reasons that I think it's essential. The first one is you want to have a dialogue with people on Facebook. You want them to pay attention to your post, find out the content you're putting out there, respond to you, engage with you. I do believe having a Facebook community builds that trust. So getting them to click like and become a fan, you have the opportunity to get out into their news feed more often. And the news feed is where it's at. That's where people are going to find you. They're not going to type in facebook.com amyporterfield that doesn't happen that much based on statistics. We know this. What they're going to do is spend time in their news feed and if I'm lucky enough to get out there, they're going to see my post. So I need them to become a fan in order to do that. But even more important than that, if someone becomes a fan of your Facebook page and they've liked it, when you start using Facebook ads, which I know we're going to talk about, and you target your existing fan base, you are paying so much less per click when you target your own fan base versus if you're trying to target a bunch of people that have not yet heard about you yet. And so that's why targeting your existing fan base with Facebook ads, you might pay 10 cents a click versus the average is 80 cents a click for non fans. So there's just a huge difference in connecting. And the conversions are better when you Target a fan vs a non fan anyway. So that's a huge perk of getting that. Like. And then one more reason why the like is so important is because Facebook recently made big changes with their news feeds. Like the biggest changes in seven years with the news feed and they're slowly rolling out. So by the time someone hears this, they might not even have the new newsfeed yet, but it's coming. And what they said is when someone likes your page now, they're going to put a story in people's news feed, like the friends of that fam with your Timeline cover photo. Like a big picture of your Facebook page is going to appear now in the news feed. And this is going to get you even more exposure so you have more of an opportunity to get seen by people that matter to your brand more when you get more likes because Facebook's making an effort to show you to more people. So there's a lot of reasons why that like is important. Still, I think the lead is more valuable, but there is some justification as to why you want to spend some time getting that fan.

Now is the so you're saying really that the like on a fan page is essentially the same thing functionally as somebody becoming your friend on your personal page in that you then show up in their newsfeed. That's really the practical thing of it.

Yes, exactly. You actually get seen and heard more.

So do you recommend though you did say like the value is the opt in and so if you were sequencing it, would you focus on getting people to opt in first and then once they've opted in now encourage them immediately to go and like your page as a next step in the sequence? Is that how you would.

Great question. What I always say is let's say you're just starting out on Facebook and maybe you have a few hundred fans at most. I always say focus on getting that first 1000 fans, getting the first 1000 likes before you even go for the lead. And because this, you know, social proof is everything when it comes to social media. So having a thousand fans looks like you've got some skin in the game. You're serious about this and you actually have made an effort. Because when people are thinking about becoming or thinking about opting in on Facebook, they might look at how many fans you have. You have 10 fans. I'd likely probably not opt into something you're offering on Facebook. I want to know that you actually are legit. And unfortunately, although it's not necessarily true, having a good solid fan base makes people think you're more legit. So with that I'd focus on getting those first thousand fans. Once you do that, I would really change my focus in setting up an opt in opportunity that is consistently collecting leads on Facebook.

What would be an example of one that is like what we have tested numerous times for opt ins on and I don't even know if you knew this Amy, but Dean Jackson and maybe there was some weird guy that did it and no one ever knew publicly, but Dean's always credited with being the guy that created the first squeeze page way back when for sure. And so basically what would be and we know that free reports as an ethical Bribe is a reason on websites work in most cases more effectively than videos or surveys or various different things to get someone to exchange their, you know, give you their name and email to get something. So how's that apply to Facebook? What are, you know, just rules of thumb. What are some things that people to get opt ins to ethically bribe people to get them to want more, to hand over their, you know, ability to please communicate with me and, you know, give permission to start communicating with them. What would you recommend our listeners do?

So the same rule of thumb applies for whatever you're giving away on Facebook. It works just as well. So whatever you're giving away, let's say on your website, that free report that you guys talk about, it works just as well on Facebook or an ebook of some kind or let's say a free video series. All of that works really well on Facebook as well. The thing where things change up a little bit is how you're asking for that opt in. And I've got some great ways that I've used and my clients have used that really work. Do you want me to kind of get into some specifics there? Okay, so one of the things that I've tested over and over again and it just blows me away how well it works. I get really excited when I get to share this is that whatever it is you're giving away, if you'll take the time to make, let's say a one minute video. Talking about this giveaway. I do webinars a lot. That's how I've run my business from day one. So I do a lot of free webinars. So let's say that's like my, my example of like a free report. Instead I do my free webinars. But what I do is I create a video, a one minute video that basically says, hey, Amy Porterfield here. I have this brand new video coming out all about list building on Facebook and here's why you want to make sure you sign up and I do. Boom, boom, boom. I tell them exactly what's in it for them. I don't make it about me. I make it all about them. This is why you don't want to miss this webinar. And then I say, just make sure you click the link and I'll see you there. Spots fill up fast, so don't take your time, sign up right away. So I give a really good call to action at the end of the video and I'm out one minute, one minute and a half max. From there I Set up my opt in page outside of Facebook. Now, years ago, I used to teach set it up inside of Facebook because studies have shown that conversions tend to be a little bit stronger if you keep someone inside of Facebook and you set up an opt in page, let's say, on a Facebook app. But the thing is, I think that if you do a really good job of promoting it, it doesn't really matter anymore if you have it inside of Facebook or outside of Facebook. And especially if you're marketing to your fans, you already have that trust, so they're likely to follow you outside of Facebook. But regardless of where you're putting that opt in, definitely you want that opt in page or that squeeze page to be solid. Like everything you guys teach about what you would put on that opt in page, it applies for Facebook as well. But the thing that's a little bit different is you post this video and when you upload a video to Facebook, a lot of people don't know this, but you get to put a headline and the headline is bolded and so it stands out more in the news feed and you get the play button. You can't actually upload an image to Facebook with a play button in it. The only time you're ever going to get a play button in an image is if you really have a video you just uploaded and it's that steal shot. Well, people are. We're click crazy. We love to hit play buttons. So it just makes your post even more engaging. When you add that video and then you post it to your Facebook page, you can turn it into an ad. You can just post it on your page and get it out into the news feed, whatever it might be. This is a great way for you to drive traffic to your opt in. People love video on Facebook. The first thing they look at is images. The second thing is video. So this is a great way to get people to actually go check out your opt in offer.

I like it. You know, Dean, I'd like to ask some really basic questions because I want to. You know, I think some of these will be good for our listeners. Like for instance, you know, when you have a personal page versus a fan page, what are like some rules of thumb and say, the etiquette when it comes to, you know, who you accept as friends, who you don't. I mean, those sort of things. I mean, just for someone that's new to Facebook, although, you know, most of our listeners have not only have a, you know, personal page, but they have a fan page. And in my for me, I have, you know, multiple fan pages and I think I have actually too many. And so another question I'm going to ask you down the road is, you know, even that sort of stuff, if you have different divisions of your company or different brands or different, you know, do you have multiple different fan pages or you keep it all to one thing. So going back to my original question, what are just some rules of thumb when it comes to a personal page versus a fan page and making them work effectively together or separately?

Yeah. So the profile, your personal page or your profile, just to make sure everyone's still on the same page, that's your personal Persona and by Facebook guidelines, it has to be your name, your likeness and all that good stuff. Well, I wish I had done it a little bit different from the beginning. Meaning when I first got on Facebook and had a profile, I friended anybody who wanted to be my friend. And as you guys probably know, there's this 5,000 people limit. So once you hit 5,000 people, you can't have any more friends. Now Facebook has added this following feature. It used to be called subscribers, now it's followers, where people can follow all of your public posts. They don't have to ask to be a friend. You just add the feature of following on your profile. You can google it to find out how to do it. It's really easy. But you can allow people to follow all your public posts. And then if you want to just post to your friends, you can keep that more private. But here's the deal. Most of us have friended a lot of people, so we're near that 5,000 limit. And we've got a really good mix of friends, family, acquaintances, and a lot of customers and potential customers on their profile. Would that be kind of how you guys have done it?

Yes.

Okay, so with that, you want to make sure that you're not just keeping it all personal because you're going to really miss a huge opportunity. So I always say there's like this 80, 20 rule. 80% of the time on your profile, keep it personal, keep it light, conversational. I mean, that's your guys style anyway, so that's a given. But you don't need to definitely make it about business in any way on your profile. However, 20%, even maybe 30% of the time, tell people what you're doing in your business. Take them behind the scenes. Hey, I can't wait. I'm getting on a call right now. I'm going to interview whoever it might be. This is going to be A good one. I'll tell you guys about it later. Or anything like that. Talk to them. Like, I might say, hey, Joe, what are you doing today in your business? And you just are telling me conversationally what you're doing. So those kind of conversations should happen on your profile, because if they don't, you're missing a huge opportunity to tell people about what is going on in your business. So that's how I kind of work my profile 80% of the time. More fun, conversational. Check out my family photos. Still, that's all ways to build relationships in your business. People love to know what's going on with you personally. But then I also tell them when my webinars are coming up and you know, what business trip I've got going on, where am I speaking? I add all that in there, and then my business.

I think that's a natural thing. I think that's kind of what Joe and I both, I think, are sort of transparent like that in that we're talking in a personal, kind of friendly way about what. What's going on in our business. It's just there's no real separation like that.

And I don't think these days, I don't even think there needs to be a big separation. I think that's what people like. Yeah. So sometimes I see that it's really forced, and some people just feel force that it's. They're not comfortable with making that kind of like that nice flow of business and personal altogether. But once you kind of get that hang of it, it just comes really natural, and people love it. And then on your business page or your Facebook page, whatever kind of term you're using there, that's where it's totally fair game. Talk about business, but do it in a way that you're, again, letting people behind the scenes. I think this is. I see people do this in a way that's so genius, where they're just kind of pulling back the curtain a little bit and letting you know what's going on, but in a way that you really want to get involved and you want to know more and you want to click and check out all that stuff. But you want to talk about business, you want to make offers, you want to make opportunities for people to sign into your Facebook page on a regular basis on your Facebook page.

Okay, so let's. That's great. So thank you for that. I want to get some deeper discussion and advice on who to accept as friends and who not to. And what do you do when you have A whole bunch of friends on your profile page that really they're like clients or that would be better served on your business page or how do you treat that?

Okay, so one thing.

Do you unfriend them also, if you have people that really would be better served elsewhere or like Dean's case, he just doesn't like any of them.

Yeah.

You know, what's the nice way to unfriend him? And I'm. Again, I'm asking that on Dean's behalf.

Thank you, Joe.

So it's a little. It's a little awkward if you start to unfriend a bunch of people. Definitely doable. I know people that have done it. And with that, you want to make sure. Maybe you make a video or you just post on your profile. Hey, guys, I'm really changing things up. I want to use my profile for what it's for. You know, family, friends, you know, whatever it is that you're using it for. And I want to invite all of you to come over to my Facebook page. And this is why. This is what I'm going to be talking about. This is what you'll get from it. You've got to set expectations. So, sure, you can unfriend people as long as you let them know why you're doing it and the fact that you are really focusing on things that they'll find valuable over on your Facebook page. And you're not necessarily doing that on your profile. That is one way to do it. The other way, if you don't feel comfortable with unfriending people, but you'd really love to use your profile as it was intended. You know, for those people that you're most close to, you could create little groups of people where you can actually put certain people in a group and you can choose that group when you post, and they're the only people that will see that post. It's way more labor intensive. I don't do it just because it's a lot of work, but if that's important to you, it's definitely an option. But if you are just starting out, let's say you just started out your profile, I would definitely only friend those people that you're closest with. So you can actually use your profile as it was intended. It's so much more enjoyable. And then encourage people to either follow your public post on your profile or more importantly, come over to your Facebook page. And that leads me to one more thing that a lot of people will say. Amy, how do I get people on my profile to come over to my Facebook page. I've got 3,000 profile friends and I really want them to come over to my page because I only have a few hundred people or fans on my page. And what I say is, don't waste too much time on this. Over and over again, I've seen it where people just aren't going to come over to your page. And the reason being is that they're likely not your ideal audience. So if you post on your profile, let's say once a week for a few weeks, hey, come on over to my page. And here's why. This is what we're doing over there. And you're just not getting people to come over. Don't waste your time anymore. They're not your ideal audience. They're not paying attention. There's so many more important strategies that you can do or more successful strategies to get more fans that are your ideal audience. So to me, it's a huge waste of time to do it for too long.

No, that's actually really great advice. And did you catch all that, Dean?

Did you catch all that? I've already unfriended you, Joe. The funny thing there was a years ago, Burger King had the Great Whopper sacrifice, where it was you could sacrifice one of your friends for a free Whopper and they would send a message to them telling them that you've been sacrificed. It was kind of like, that's great. I love Very funny. Yeah, it was a really funny thing around.

But then, of course, you've heard the stories where someone murdered someone else because they were unfriended on Facebook. So you just better be a little bit careful with that, Dean.

Yeah, Let's talk about privacy and stuff too, because you know, what's really happening here is that you're literally documenting the habits, rituals, travel, to whatever degree you share that stuff. I mean, what are things that you should never share? I mean, personally or professionally, if there are such things? I mean, we're living in a world more and more where privacy and the ability to be private is like, almost impossible in some cases. And then secondly, everything that you post is permanent, including your political beliefs, including everything if you decide to put it out there. So do you have suggestions on that?

My suggestion is you need to make sure that every single thing you post will be completely public, no matter if you think you're kind of being private by maybe creating those little special lists I told you about or, you know, you think you're being a little bit conservative, whatever it might be, whatever's posted is going to be one day come completely public. And you've just got to have that mentality. I don't trust any social site to, you know, hide anything that I think that's not going to be seen. But I'm posting it anyway to a certain group. I just don't trust it. And I say this because Facebook has this new thing called social graph. And basically you can do some searches now to find really at a granule level, let's say people in your town that play tennis that are female and live in a certain, let's say zip code and have three children, you can search at that level now. So everything is searchable. And I was reading this article where they searched for moms in, let's say, San Diego who love whiskey. I mean, it was crazy like that, where you think, no one knows that I love whiskey. But you mentioned it somewhere on Facebook. You mentioned it in your profile to a friend and now you're coming up in the search. And because people, recruiters are now using this social search, it could be really dangerous. So I just say be very, very careful. That's really all I can say about privacy. It's all public if you're putting it on Facebook.

Yeah. I've helped Jared Cohen and Eric Schmidt, who's the chairman of Google and Jared's the director of Google ideas on at the time we're doing this episode, they got a new book coming out in a few weeks called the New Digital Age. And when I met with Jared down at New York, the Google headquarters down there last, he made this comment to me. Is that everything, one of the things in the new digital world we live in is that everything is permanent and people really realize and come into grips that everything is permanent in terms of what we put out there. So I think even me and Dean being In a our mid-40s, we grew up at a time where our teenage years, our college years, if either of us even went to college, there was things that weren't documented like they are today. And you have young people that are putting the most insane pictures of themselves online. And some are amusing and others are just completely like 20 years from now, they're going to regret that some of that stuff was ever documented. But at this point in time, it's not even about hiding stuff. It's just everything's out there. And I think how you frame it and how you position it has a lot to how people interpret you. And I constantly, daily, if I look will see things where I'm like, man, this person really does not realize the ramifications of what they just put up there. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's. So let me ask one more thing about posting in general. Do you have rules of thumb of how often, what is too little or too much posting? I mean, when's overkill or does it matter? Is the real answer it depends? I mean, I don't know if you can even answer that, but I'd love to get your opinion on for your profile page plus your business page. What's too much posting, what's too little, that sort of stuff.

Yeah, I actually do have a lot of opinion about that because the rule of thumb that you definitely can post too much, but more importantly, you can post too little. Just like email marketing where you want to be consistent and make sure that you are staying top of mind with those people on your email list. Same goes for Facebook. But remember that if you post on Facebook today, let's say you're posting on your Facebook page, I can guarantee you that most of your fans aren't even going to see that post. You know, Facebook says on average, 16% of your fans actually see your post in their news feed. So posting consistently and more often multiple times a day is really important. Now if you're just starting out and you have 100 fans, well, one time a day is probably enough because those hundred fans, you're going to get in their face a little bit too much because you don't have that many fans to show a post to. But if you have a few thousand or more, I'd say two, three, four times a day, if you really spread it out is ideal. But that might mean you get on your Facebook page and you answer some questions and ask some questions. It doesn't all have to be, hey, check out my latest blog post or did you hear my latest podcast? Nothing like that. You want to mix it up. So post consistently a few times a day is usually the sweet spot. And mix it up. So just to be clear, I'm talking you can post to your lead opportunity, you know your opt in, you can post to a video you created, a blog post, a podcast, but also make it about them, ask them questions, answer questions, post images. This new news feed that's coming out, it's like really, you're going to start to hear about it all the time because it's so different than anything else. But they're going to have this news feed option that you can choose only to see the images that people are posting. So no more text, only Post in your newsfeed. You might choose just to see images. Images are going to be even more important than ever. So get an image strategy. Put quotes in images or great statements or different statistics, whatever it might be. You've got to incorporate images, for sure. So the whole. What I'm trying to say, I guess is mix things up definitely and be consistent. The people that went on Facebook.

Facebook is the new Instagram.

Oh, it totally is. Yeah, for sure. So you've got to mix things up and you've got to make images part of it. Now, I will say that I'm a little bit different when it comes to my profile. I rarely post there. It's not something I really focus on because I've had such great success with what I do on my page. I just keep going with what's working for me. But it wouldn't hurt to post daily on your profile as well. At least a few times a week, if not anything else.

Do you use any services or recommend that this does automatic postings for you or do you steer clear of that?

No. You know, back a few years ago they used to say if you use third party posting tools like hootsuite that Facebook would dock you and actually not give you the reach that you actually should have gotten. It's not true anymore. So third party tools for posting are fantastic. Hootsuite tends to be the one I recommend the most. But also a lot of people don't know that on your Facebook page now you have the option to schedule any post you want. So maybe you want to get a VA to schedule 10 posts that go up, maybe two a day. You can post those directly or schedule them directly on your Facebook page and they'll sit there until they're ready to go out. I think that's one of the easiest ways to do it.

Well, that's pretty cool.

Yeah.

Well, I want to talk a little bit about advertising and actually things that you can do with ads, which you certainly know a tremendous amount of stuff about, I guess. Dean, is there any other questions you would have to kind of on the topics we have before we kind of move into that.

Now that you mentioned it. Now that you mention it, I think it'd be valuable to get your take on what the role of the fan page is as opposed to your blog. I mean, let's even. Joe, we should just get Amy to tell us what to do here.

Well, see, that's actually the real secret here for I love marketing, is that me and Dean know a lot about marketing and there's a hell of a lot more we don't know. And so we invite experts on like Amy and all these various people that we've interviewed in the past for any particular areas where just, you know, because what's the thing that Peter Diamandis says, you know, an expert is someone that will tell you exactly, you know, why something can't be done. So, you know, there's, you know, there's always layers of marketing. Marketing is such an expansive area. And, and so we try to seek out the very best people in the world that have knowledge in a particular area. And so talking to Amy right now is taking someone that has spent years learning about something and pointing. She's the air traffic controller, do this, do that, that sort of thing. And everything that I'm listening to here is really for myself too. I want to be as effective as I can with not only Facebook, but with my time. Because I think one of the bigger. Before we end this episode, I want to also have you talk about how to not waste time because I think this has become a modern day version of sitting in front of useless television for many people and it's just not productive if used in a certain way.

Oh yeah, for sure. It could be the biggest time suck ever.

Yeah, totally. So go ahead, Dean, why don't you rephrase the question?

Since I'm going on tnt, I guess one of the concerns that people might have, and it's kind of one of my. I'm trying to figure this out ourselves is so many channels. Are you mirroring content on channels or are you using one to just keep people moving around within all of those channels? If we take where we focus, most of our time is on our podcast and that's where we have the largest reach. That's distributed on itunes. We get way more listeners on itunes than actually come to ilovemarketing.com to listen online or to download it there. But we do get a lot of traffic to that site as well. And then both Joe and I have our personal Facebook pages where we post the episodes and we post things there. We have an I love Marketing fan page, but we haven't really optimized it or done much with it. I'm looking at it right now. One of the things that was kind of threw us off a little is our fan page is I love marketing, but it's luv marketing. Somebody already had I love marketing. So a little bit of incongruence there. It's not optimal. It's not the ideal thing. So we have as of the recording of this646likes on our Facebook fan page. But we don't ever. We don't have a strategy for it. We haven't used that. And so I'm curious, what would be. Where would you see that fitting for a couple of guys like us, hypothetically?

Yeah. Like, say, for instance, Amy, you just needed to fill time in your schedule because you're just sitting around and you just wanted to spend an hour a day on our page.

Yes. Yes.

Yeah.

Well, I've been waiting for this opportunity, so, yes, that's exactly how I'm going.

To spend my day.

This is a great example, though, because I think a lot of people in your situation, what you're already doing right, and you guys know this, but I just want to point it out, is that you're spending time where it's working for you. I think people think they have to be on Facebook or I've got to have a Pinterest page or a Twitter page. So they spend hours a day on these sites and have no idea if it's really working for them. So when you look at the stats, the analytics, you know, the Facebook insights, you know what's working for you and what's not, where you're getting the most leads and all that good stuff. So definitely spend the time there. And for you guys, it's your podcast, and that's exactly where you should be spending your time. But I want you to look at Facebook as an opportunity to continue just to drive more traffic to what's already working for you. So one thing, you definitely want to grow that fan base, because every time you have a new Facebook or, excuse me, every time you have a new podcast, you want to put it out there on Facebook and get out into the newsfeed and let more new people hear about you. This is a free way to get exposure. And we all know most people are spending time on Facebook. So you can feel pretty confident that your audience is on Facebook. Where. That's why I love what I do. Because I can't say that your audience is spending time on Pinterest or Twitter That I don't feel exactly certain about, but I feel pretty certain they're on Facebook.

So think, yeah, exactly, because we're on Facebook, too. I mean, look at that. Everybody's on Facebook, and we do that through our personal pages.

Oh, good. So you're putting it like I look at it.

You were saying that. Oh, yeah, definitely. We do that each. And you had mentioned that maybe mostly personal stuff, and 20 or 30% business. And I think I look at it almost the opposite way in that if you're somebody who's approaching the 5,000 fan limit, there's no way that those people are friends. I mean, like, you know, personal friend. They're there because of your notoriety. Somehow they're connecting with you from what you do. And so if you back out, the couple of hundreds people that are truly like your personal friends, what most people have, it's. I look at it that that's the ratio. Like most of the stuff that I post on there is all is I'm speaking to who I know the major audience is, which are the people who are our fans really. I mean, that's really what they are kind of that in that level. They're people.

They admire you, Dean, because they know you know me.

That's exactly right. So I'm riding the coattails of Joe Polish and my relationship with that.

He really uses. He uses this relationship inappropriately.

I know how to pick a good horse.

Yeah, well. But wait, I got say one thing. You make a great point about the fact that those 5,000 people, maybe 200, are your closest friends. And you're right, the majority of them are following you because you're a public figure. They love what you're putting out there. They admire what you're doing. So I agree. You know, you kind of just quite honestly made me change how I kind of think about that. But I still think you're. There's a little bit, in my personal opinion, a different way you communicate on your profile versus your page. I feel like your page, you can be a little bit more aggressive. More of, you know, all the marketing strategies we learn and we know. I think they. They work better on a page than a profile. Just my opinion there. But overall, social media is supposed to be conversational and a little bit more entertaining than a lot of the other things we do. So it sounds like you guys are already doing what I would suggest you do on your page more. It sounds like you're doing on your profile and that's working for you. Would you agree?

Yeah, I mean, I'm just. When you were saying how getting somebody to like the page, essentially what that does is get it so that you show up in their news feed. But is there any difference in the way that it shows up in their news feed from a. Like, essentially, if they're our friend, it's showing up in their news feed.

Yes, definitely. So that's a great question, really. No, it doesn't. It's not really different it's just extra exposure. So that's really the way to look at it. You're just getting even, you're getting out there even more. And because people are on Facebook at such different times, you want to have that extra padding, I guess it would be. So you want to have that option to be seen even more often also. And I keep bringing this up because I promise you it's going to be a big deal with the news feed changing as it is. There's going to be an option to click on all the brands that you like and only see them in your newsfeed. And so they've actually rolled this out a long time ago, but they're doing it a little bit different now. So you want to make sure that you have all those fans that have liked your brand page or your business page so that you'll get in those news feeds as well. So it really comes down to being seen everywhere by everyone that matters. And that's where it's coming down to with Facebook. There's so many different options of how people can find you and see you on Facebook. You want to cover all your bases. I do want to make sure we get back to your question about having multiple Facebook pages and is that really a good idea? Because I want to touch on that. But go ahead. What were you going to say?

No, no. Well, okay, let's definitely do that. In advertising. Those are the two things I'd love to find out at the time we've got available here. There are, I don't know how the heck this happens, but there are people that show up that I supposedly liked, that I never like clicked on that I'm aware of anything that said I like this page, but it shows up and I have to, unlike these people and I've talked to other people, my girlfriend, people just show up on likes. I mean, how does that happen?

I think some of that's happening because people are doing some shiesty things to get you to like them and you don't even know you're liking them. So I'm just totally against those kind of black hat ways. I think they're doing it. Other times though, I will say you can, they can get out in your newsfeed because they're putting out a post, they're sponsoring it, and they're sponsoring it to non fans where we think we've liked that page because why are they in our newsfeed? In your case, it sounds like you've looked and it looks like you've liked them even Though you haven't. But a lot of the times now we're going to get to see what brands are putting out there, even when we don't like their page. So the whole. The whole landscape has really changed.

Interesting. Interesting. Okay. Well, yeah, and I know there's so much here, too, that we could go deep with. And again, I want to reiterate to everyone that, you know, Amy has written an entire book on this, a very large book, Facebook for All in One For Dummies. It's nine books in one, which I recommend picking up. And secondly, I'll have you give out your website and various other things after as we get towards the end of this. So people that want to get additional training on this from. You can do that. Okay, so let's go back to the other stuff.

Okay, so let's see here. Do we want to talk briefly about why you don't want to have a bunch of Facebook Pages? Good.

Yes, that would be great.

Okay, so the thing is, a lot of people have. Like you, Joe, you have so many different things going on that you can't just have one Facebook Page. That just wouldn't make sense. Because I know of all the different things you do. However, this is how you want to think about, should you have multiple Facebook Pages or not? If you have a business and let's say you have three different products, and all of those products you market to the same audience or very similar audience, the same message. They're just different options for people. I suggest you only have one Facebook page because managing multiple Facebook pages is a nightmare for most of us because the last thing we want to do is spend hours and hours on Facebook. I mean, I am definitely a fan of Facebook and I teach it all day, but I probably spend 20 minutes, 30 minutes max a day on Facebook. So you don't want to be spending all your time there or you're not going to see the profits you're looking for and all these efforts you're putting out there for your marketing. So the thing is, if you have the audience or the message can be the same and the audience is the same, have one Facebook page. But if you have a really different message for a specific product or specific business versus another business, and it's a really different audience, you definitely need to have different Facebook Pages. It gets confusing. I even had clients come to me and say, well, I need to speak Spanish and English, so can I speak both of those on one Facebook page? And I'm saying, heck, no. That if I went to a page and it's all Spanish, and I don't speak Spanish, and there's a little bit of English. I would ditch that page in a second, thinking it's not for me. So make sure that it makes makes sense. If someone comes to your page, they know instantly this is where I'm supposed to be. This is a perfect page for me because it's actually meeting the needs I'm looking for. Also, if you have, let's say, a brand like I do, where it's my name, is my business, it's easier to put everything kind of underneath my name. So there's a huge advantage of having Amy Porterfield Incorporated as the name of my business. But it doesn't always work that way for people, so you got to be really careful. The rule of thumb, though, the least amount of pages that you can have, the better.

Yep. That's because in my case, you know, we have. Let's say I love marketing. Me and Dean have that. And then I have Genius Network, my Mastermind group, my 25k group. I have Genius Network interviews. I have stuff that we sell for professional cleaners stuff. Dean has stuff that he sells to real estate agents and offers. And I have, you know, ethical services. And I have a whole variety, you know, Piranha marketing, and just a variety of different brands. And so part of the complexity is, how do you actually do that? And I think most of our listeners are in similar boats as it relates to that.

One quick workaround. I know we got to talk about ads, so I'll go fast. But one quick workaround is I have a lot of Facebook private groups. So a lot of my products I offer as a bonus, they get a private group where they can network with me and other people throughout the group, and then I'll step out of it when my group is. I mean, my program's done, but they get to keep networking with each other. So that way, I do have something special for people that are in certain programs of mine, but I don't have to keep them up ongoingly like a different Facebook pages. So if that works for anybody, look into private Facebook groups. They tend to work really well, and they reduce retro rates of products and programs because it's just an extra space for them to get the attention they need. So I'm a huge fan.

How big can a group be?

My understanding is as big as we need it to be. I've never heard a cap on because it kind of acts like a Facebook page. There's just. It's just private. So you have a Lot of flexibility there.

Can you charge for. I mean, and I kind of know the answer to this, but I'm going to ask it in Linux. Can you charge for a private Facebook page?

You can, because there's three different options. There's a Facebook or not a Facebook page, but a Facebook group you can charge for because there's controls. You can have a public Facebook group, a closed Facebook group, or a secret Facebook group. So with a secret Facebook group, it's really locked down. A closed Facebook group, people can see it exists, but they have to be invited to join. So 100%, I think it's a great, great kind of model that you could test out.

And from within a group, the posts to the group still show up in the news feed.

Not in a closed group. So let's say I post something in my.

Oh, I mean in a secret.

Oh, in a. So the only difference between closed and secret, both of them, when you post in the group, the only people that will see.

Oh, I meant as a user.

Yeah, yeah.

If I, if I join your group, if I'm part of your group, posts to your group will show up in my newsfeed, not in the public, but.

In my newspaper, which is really cool. So you don't always have to go inside the group to see what's going on.

Right. And then it seems more conducive because I have, I have two groups myself and they seem very conducive to conversations. It almost seems like the new forum in a way, you know, like.

Well, plus I'm thinking of one that we can do where I can just let a secret group where we charge for it and I just let people know where Dean is every hour of the day if they just want to, you know, just sit down with him.

And have my personal cell phone number that I have to keep changing all the time because Joe gives it out.

It's just less him, him bothering me if other people are talking to him. He is, he's less.

That's a great question. Let me give you Dean's personal.

That is so special. Okay.

Sorry for timing. So advertising, I mean, there's only so much we can do. This even sets the stage for a follow up episode. Although we'll see what we can cover here. So how do you make money with Facebook if you're going to spend money on ads?

Okay, so this is what I'll say. With our limited time, I'll just give you the best of, the best kind of, of stuff you want to hear about Facebook ads. I think the Best use of a Facebook ad is to collect leads. Even more so than going right to a sales page or, you know, trying to use Facebook ads to get likes, which those you can do that for sure. And I've seen much success with it. But really, if you have a limited budget or limited time, use Facebook ads to go to your opt in. And whether you use my video strategy or, you know, you just have a great image and a great headline in your ad to move people to action, to go get your free report or whatever that might be, I think that's the best use of Facebook ads. And I'll tell you, there's three ads that work really well and won't break the bank. And Facebook ads are getting better and better every single month. I feel like they're making updates. So the first one is page post ads. And that's basically you create a post on your Facebook page and then you go into your ads dashboard and you can turn that post in. You'll see a drop down of all your posts on your Facebook page. You actually pick that post and you turn it into an ad. So now your ad has the like share and comment button on it and it looks more like a post versus an ad. Now, not to get too technical, but you can use something called the power editor, which is basically a more advanced Facebook ads dashboard. You can just google it, you'll learn all about it. But when you use the power editor, you can say, I only want this page post ad to go out into the news feed. I don't even want it to appear in that right column where all ads appear. I want it to go out into the news feed. You can do that. And I have seen so much more success when I do a page post ad in the news feed. I get from difference of like 0.1% click through rate in instead of I'll get 7% click through rate on a page post ad. It's like that difference.

Now is that only available to your fans and friends?

No. That's a great question.

So you can do a page post to anybody. Like you can do the same. I could go in and do the same selection as you would do with those other ads. You could say, these are the people that I want to target and. But I want to do a page post instead of.

Yes, those small ads. Yeah, exactly. So let's say, for example, I always use whole Foods. They do a lot of advertising. So Whole Foods, let's say they post on their page and they'll say something like, we've got this great deal going on. Make sure you check it out. So they post on their page, they go into the power editor, and they choose who they want to see that ad, whether it be fans or non fans. And they choose, do we want it to go in the news feed or. Or do we want it to go in the right column? So you get to do all that targeting. But one thing I always talk about, and I know you guys know about this, but it's so important, is the targeting of that actual ad. And there's a place inside your ads dashboard called Precise Interest. And Precise Interest is where you can actually type in the name of a Facebook page that, let's say, is really aligned with your brand. They have a lot of fans that you, you know, would love your products or your free giveaway or whatever that might be. You can target all of their fans. So Whole Foods and Sprouts market, say.

Amy Porterfield, somebody influential.

Yeah, so, yeah, exactly. We're talking Facebook marketers or Internet marketers. You can target other Internet marketers, Facebook pages, and your ad gets in front of all of their fans. It's like the coolest thing. But I'll give you a little thing that drives me crazy. Some Facebook pages just won't show up. You'll go to type in the name of their Facebook page in precise interest because you want to target all of their fans, and it won't pop up. And you know one guy that it never pops up for, Brendan Burchard, you cannot target his fans. And I asked Facebook before, because I have tons of people that come to me and say, I want to target Brendan's fans. He's obviously a hot commodity. And I asked Facebook about it, and they said it's just a glitch. Sometimes some Facebook pages won't pop up and others will. So we don't know why, but Brendan's lucky because no one can target his fans. You gotta love that. Oh, but it's a really cool feature.

No, Brendan, I'm gonna figure out how to get him exposed, because.

I'm just thinking the same. Like, we're. See, Joe and I have this telepathy on things like this. Like, the wheels are spinning right now. Both of us. It's our number one.

I'm sorry, Brendan, if you hear this, I just got you in big trouble.

Not just for anybody, but just for. Just for us, that we're going to expose him for us.

You know what? I will. I just got. You know, I spent a week at Turks and Caicos with this goofball and got mauled by bugs. And then he's in my 25k group and he's speaking at our annual event this year. And plus I'm going through transcendental meditation training with him the week that you know coming up here. So yeah, we're going to figure out how to get to the bottom of.

This because let's keep it a secret that I just said that.

To 200,000 listeners on our love market.

Exactly.

Just us and our closest 200,000 friends.

I always run my mouth. I always get in trouble.

No, no, no, you did. I mean that was fun. So let's. Yeah, let's. Any other suggestions for, for advertising on here? Because God, there's so much good stuff.

One more quick one and then we can wrap it up. When you want to run Facebook ads for list building, another ad I want you to check out is called Facebook offers. And a lot of people think that Facebook offers are for local businesses who want to offer a discount code or five bucks off an appetizer. And that's a great way to use these Facebook offers. But the way I like to use them is for list building. So click here. I was recently doing a big affiliate launch for Marie Forleo for her B school launch and I said before you sign up for B school, make sure to check out my B school bonus experience. Click here. And it was an offer. It looks like almost like a coupon inside your newsfeed. But here's the coolest thing. It says claim offer. People click the claim offer button and they get an email in their personal email account with your Gmail account that says all the information about how to go claim my bonus offer. It's basically a link to my opt in page or my sales page or whatever it might be. So now this Facebook ad, the offer is getting into people's personal email accounts and then they have the option to click my link to go find out more. It's just a whole other layer, a personalized layer to get in front of people at a different level. So. So Facebook offers for list building are my brand new favorite way to get in front of people.

I like it. What did you think of this, Dean?

I think it's fantastic. I think we should invite people to join Amy in our super secret closed group where she's going to share all these other secrets. I'm just seeing like I'm thinking out loud of how you can integrate all these things.

That's why I love you, Dean. You always thinking about ways to turn it into mini products and Stuff.

Yeah, exactly. Now, Amy, if you. If you were to get into a personal fight with Mark Zuckerberg, do you think you could take him?

Oh, totally. I'd take that guy down.

Yeah. We're gonna have some sort of. We're gonna run. We're going to run some sort of Facebook contest. We have to. We'll have to dream something up.

You know what's funny? I was looking this up while we're talking, that right now we are running neck and neck on the fan thing. I happen to have 92 more friends than you do right now, but we're very close.

You mean on what, my profile page or my fan?

On our profile pages? Yeah, yeah. No, on our profile pages. Personal profile pages. We're both at. You're at 3869. I'm at 3961.

Well, that's. I got thousands of people that try to friend me that I don't accept unless I know that they know. I mean, there's. I use a. I use some sort of discretion, unlike you. And, you know, and if you want immediately like 2000 of those to scurry off like, you know, like bugs in a bright light or something, then, you know, I just need to unfriend you and you're going to lose most of your audience.

That sounds like a threat. I like it.

I mean, I'm the. Just realize I'm the glue that's keeping so much of your life together here, Dean. Amy, this has been really, really valuable. Thank you for sharing all this. So people that want to go deep and learn more, what do you recommend? Either your stuff, anyone else's stuff, things they look at. Anything that you think would be useful for our listeners, please share.

Well, let's see. So definitely I blog all about this@amyporterfield.com but there's tons of other websites that I love. Social Media Examiner. Every single day they have a post about how to optimize social media. And I'm a huge fan of theirs. So if I was giving someone else a shout out, I definitely give them a shout out, too.

Okay, cool. So. And what will people learn when they, like, pick up your book? Because I think everyone should just immediately go and buy Facebook marketing all in one for Dummies. So what will they get out of that?

I can't even believe you have that book on your desk. Thank you for that because it's definitely a humongous book. I always say it's the Facebook Bible. And, you know, you learn everything from Branding to building your foundation on Facebook. Facebook to learn how to use images and get engagement and build your list and sell more. I mean, pretty much with that book, it's over 600, 700 pages. It's all in there.

Yeah, yeah. And it's awesome. And you know, the reason I do have it is because of my wonderful office angel of now 18 years, Eunice Miller, who's been. Been my assistant for 18 years.

18 years. Wow. That's amazing.

Yeah.

Can you believe it?

Can you?

No.

Yeah, yeah. She loves me and I love her and she's cool. And I tend to keep people for quite a while because I. I don't know, I mean, I brainwash them or something. But no. So, Dean, any. Anything else you want to ask Amy, like, how to. I mean, look, this will go a little bit over, but let's at least ask her this. What are some rules of thumb to not waste your freaking life away doing stupid shit on Facebook? So how do you know from time management standpoint?

Any.

Any recommendations, suggestions, Philosophical thoughts related to productivity as it relates to the usage of Facebook? And we'll go a little bit over the timeline, but I think that would be good to hear.

Okay, so two things I'll tell you. One, if we're looking at big picture, if you have a plan for why you're on Facebook, I mean, sure, the fun stuff and looking at silly videos and all that, that's your personal life. But when we're talking business, get a plan. What are you using Facebook for? Why are you on it? What message do you want to send to people? Why do you want to connect with people? Literally spend a little time and just write it out so you're really clear and keep coming back to that so when you do jump on Facebook, you're not wasting all your time. And I will say this is a little bit mechanical or just a little strategy I use. I book time for when I'm going to be on Facebook, just like I do with my emails. I have to have a schedule or I'm just kind of get a little loosey goosey with my time. So I might say, okay, for the next 15 minutes, I'm just going to post to people and answer people and ask questions and whatnot, and then I'm getting my butt off of Facebook. I would not be successful in my business if all I did was, of course, just spend time on Facebook. And I have a great excuse to do so because I teach it. But it's still not the most productive use of your time schedule. The time or put a timer on or something like that. But be really cognizant of when you are on Facebook because it could just an hour later will pass and you've done nothing. So just have a plan, have a big picture of why you're there, and just really watch the time because it could be a pretty scary thing once you realize how long you're spending.

That is great advice, and it may seem basic and common sense, but most people don't follow it. And coming from you, who's a person who literally has all the reasons in the world, like you said, to spend time on Facebook, but even saying that I have have to block time and schedule it. And that is key because if people were to tally up all the unscheduled time wasted on social media with no thought, no strategy. And again, like your personal life, if you want to spend two hours in the evening and that's a social thing you do, like relaxing or whatever, by all means. But from a business standpoint, I see a lot of business owners get sucked into unproductive things and confusing activity with accomplishments. So very good. Dean, anything else from you?

Awesome. It's just been great. I got a lot of clarity. I'm sure everybody's got some good action things to try. I'm sure there'll be more that we'll want to follow up with you, too. Thank you for sharing all this with us. I think there's a lot of good stuff for people to do.

Well, thank you, guys. I mean, this has been such a treat to even be on the show with you guys. You both know I'm a huge fan, so it means a lot.

Yeah. Thank you so much. Thank you. And everyone, give us your comments on ilove marketing.com and perhaps even on Facebook. Goodbye.

Good night.