The Science of Human Actions, Reactions, and Interactions - I Love Marketing Episode #225

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and this is the I love marketing podcast. Hello, this is Joe Polish, and I'm going to have a conversation with my dear friend Kathy Colby, who is. You're going to learn about her in just a moment. You're going to learn a lot, perhaps about yourself and about why people behave the way that they behave. And Kathy is awesome. So you're a dear friend of mine. There's so much I could say. You've changed so many people's lives.

Don't tell all.

First off, it's always great to not only hang out with you, but to do an interview with you because you're so darn smart and you've done a lot. So thank you. For people who are not familiar with who you are. In your own words, how would you explain who you are and what you do?

I'm a severe dyslexic. I have had severe brain damage from a car accident. I'm a grandmother of nine. And I'm your buddy.

Yes, exactly. And we've got these interesting. For those of you that are not watching this on video, you can find the video online. We have some Colby profiles which we'll explain as we go through this. But what is Colby, and what is your mission with all of this?

We're all equal, and, dammit, I can prove it.

Okay, well, let's prove it.

So my mission is to not only prove every human being is equal to every other human being, and I have proven it. I can show you. What is all this deal about who's better than who? Smart. Yeah, some people are smarter than others. We're not equally smart, but we're equally creative. Were equally able to do decision making in a creative way, but we're different. And what I needed to figure out was, what are those differences? And how can I prove we're equal? And then how can I help people get rid of all this stress of trying to be something they're not by validating their authentic abilities? Why did I get started doing that? Because I'm the daughter of Wonderlic from the Wonderlic personnel test that is being used outrageously poorly by the NFL. But that's how most people know about. Dad created the whole notion of IQ testing for selection in the workplace. And as a little kid, I sat there and did test analysis. It was just part of what we did in order to have dinner. And I said, but, dad, this is all about how smart you are. I know a lot of smart people who don't seem to get anything done and he said, yeah, my work is figuring this out. You go figure what makes people tick and why some people are good at one things and other at another. And so at a very young age, I started saying, okay, I'll figure that out. Yeah.

And you have. You figured out a ton of stuff. Now, I first learned about Kolbe, spelled K O L B E By the way, Kolbe.com through Dan Sullivan, our good friend at strategic coach. And when I first found out about it, I'm looking at it as well. This is a tool to figure out. Left to my own devices, how am I going to operate? What am I going to. How does it help me find people that are aligned with my skills, work on my strengths, not my weaknesses, all that sort of stuff. Since then, it's become a whole other level. I mean, in the last month, we've had conversations about how does this impact addiction? How does it impact people that are called add, distractibility, focus, and simply human happiness? And now with your careers program and your work in the educational, the world of education, some of which, knowing you, you would love to see dismantled because you know of all. All the nonsense about it. So I'm going to go through a list of questions that I prepared, which I believe will allow the listeners and the people that are viewing this to have an insight that I don't even think. They don't even know what they don't know. But you have discovered some amazing things. So what is.

But that's okay. No, I like correcting you on air because I find as a dyslexic, when I start a seminar and say I'm going to write some things on the board backward, sometimes I sign my name with the letters kind of cross around, and if it bothers you, you can ask me what I really mean. If not, just roll your eyes. Now people listen so much more astutely, I think, and they read so much more carefully, hoping to find my errors. So I'm okay. If people start off thinking it might be something, it's conation. People say, can I think about it as cone heads? Well, if you want to. It comes from the Latin word. The ancient philosophers knew about this. So did the early psychologists. Conation is to the mind what a cat does when they go chase a mouse. It is the instinct, it is the drive to do what you naturally and innately do. It's not learned behavior of the cognitive or IQ part. It's not the social style, the kind of thing we measure. Introvert, extrovert. And Samantha Myers Briggs Totally different parts of the brain. What I've done in my brain research is proven the existence of conation in the brain. And I've proven to business people, if you understand it and use these natural abilities to take action, you can double and triple your profitability. It's that real. It's that important. More important to me. I don't mind helping you make more money, but I'd rather help you have a quality of life that brings you joy. And we can do that by freeing you of trying to be something that isn't your truth.

Okay, well, so using freedom as an outcome. Okay, let's just say that we need to speak about what it is that you know what it is that your organization that you set up will allow people to discover about themselves. Because what it will provide for them could make more money, give you quality of life. But let's just say that reward is freedom.

Yes.

So what is it that people are doing or don't understand that is causing them to be imprisoned and not having it?

I discovered that conation is what's behind your modus operandi, your mo. So it's not just a law enforcement person or a criminal who has an mo. You have one, I have one. We all have one. And then I had to figure out, well, what constitutes an mo? And I figured out that there are four modes of operation. So modalities. And the ancient philosophers talked about modalities, but they had 36. It was too complex, you and I.

And I'm going to put this little tag on right here too, because this.

Is me, that's you, with your modes. I test a very simple little test, the colby index. Just 36 questions. You answered them in about 12 minutes, as I recall. And it tells you each of these modes. The first one being fact finder, tells you, how much detail do you need and how much do you give on a scale of 1 to 10? I give a teeny weeny little bit. You give more detail, two and a half times more detail than I do.

Does that make me better?

It makes you better at giving detail. I'm better at getting to the bottom line really fast. So we're equally good in the fact finder mode, but we're different in the way we do it. My son, the attorney who is now the CEO of Colby, David Colby, is way down here. He's an Aiden fact finder. That's why when you have a conversation with David, you better be ready with some facts and figures. And the conversation's gonna go back and forth with the Pros and cons with me. Let's come up with five pros and say, let's do it. You and I have cut deals without even going to the. What could go wrong? Cause we turn that over to other people. Right, right, right. That's why we have people is to tell us, oh, no, no, no, no, no. But Kathy, do you really want to do that? Oh, well, I gotta cognitive and my work includes after, you know this, knowing when to get cognitive and edit yourself.

Well, let me say this too, just for people that are wondering, well, how does one figure that out? So you have. And then I want to come right back to this. So you have this process called Colby. People say do a Colby. So this is a Colby A index.

Yes.

So explain how someone gets this. Because I went online and I answer, I did this years ago. I mean, the first time I did it was in 1997, and I did it recently. And it shows up the same, which.

Is because you don't change. This is the real you.

And why is someone doing this? Because I want to take this down to the. Just so everyone understands what we're discussing.

You can go online to Colby.com and click on Take the Colby A Index if you're an adult. For the kids, it's a why we now have a nonverbal version for people who are handicapped, by the way. So we try to make it very accessible for people. You can do it through your organization and you can get a whole slew of people to do it by just calling or going to Infoolby and finding out how. Once you fill out this form, which doesn't take you more than 12 or 15 minutes, you immediately get not only this, but. But you get, I think it's 15, 16 pages that say do this, don't do that.

Right?

Here's how you communicate most effectively. Here's how you'd study if you were a student. Here's how you work. Here's how you collaborate. Here's how you use time. You and I are both long in the green. Quick Start. Quick Start deals with how we deal with unknowns, how we take risks. We're both big risk takers. So how do we deal with time? It's always the future. We're looking always to the future. I'm 75 years old and I'm working 20 years out right now. I can't deal with the past. This is the past. Fact Finder is the past. Because the past deals with evidence that has previously been acquired. It deals with knowledge that we know and it's in print, it's in a book, and we can read the book and we know it's there. This particular book that I had to write is written in the book fact finder, meaning it's not authentic me. And I hate this book. I've never read it all the way through as I was writing it. Sometimes I was probably literally pulling out hair. But I knew fact finders needed a book with the details.

Right?

So it's not what we can.

So you're not saying it's a bad book. You're saying for you, you wrote it.

Up for a person like me, it's a terrible book. But I wrote this book for those people and I wrote this book for follow through people.

That is the.

Because I know people and I know we don't read the same way. I know we don't solve problems. And part of the point is it's not what we can or can't do. Both of us can reign in our quick start and not talk over each other too much, but quick starts do interrupt each other because I know what you're going to say before you finished your question and you know what I'm going to answer. And so we have fun editing this because we do that as naturally. But if you try to stop us and say, joe, I want you to ask the question and read the questions and go in order and then, Kathy, I want you to wait till he's done. I want you to stop moving around and don't gesture or make weird noises and just answer. I don't know who would want to hear that interview. Because it wouldn't be authentic.

Exactly.

Yeah. And it would be boring. People who do that naturally can be very interesting. The point is, when you're true to yourself, you have charisma. That's why you have so much charisma. You're so true to yourself. Wow.

Well, there you go. That was worth inviting you over to do an interview just to hear that one. So for individuals that are out there, that is this for career? Is this for relationships? I mean, I'm asking you some questions I know the answers to, but I want people that are listening, like, why does someone do this?

Because they're smart enough to know what they don't know. And that the first thing in creative problem, the first thing in being a good husband, a good wife, a good parent, a good employee, is to know yourself and know what you're good at. Don't sell something you can't deliver. Say, this is who I am. This is what I do. And find a job that fits who you are and find, accompany a situation that values who you are and get out of a relationship where someone's trying to change who you are. Because you don't change. As you said, you took the Colby a couple decades ago and you're the same. Yes, because it tells the truth and the truth is not going to change. The Colby Index is the only human assessment tool, the only one that is valid over 20, 30 years. And it would be valid longer, but we've only had it 30 years.

Interesting.

Totally valid and reliable. So it's important if you want the freedom to be yourself, and it's important if you want to openly and honestly and truthfully deal with who you are in yourself and with others.

Great. Well, so I want to. So what is conation?

What is conation?

Conation. And how does it relate to the other two parts of the mind? Because I want you to explain how this all works, because I would love to have our listeners kind of get the difference between conative cognitive.

Okay? Cognitive is thinking measured on IQ tests. It's what you learn. So you don't have any cognitive. When you start, you fill in an empty bucket with learning. So it's. You're learning. It's not even how you learn. How you learn is cognitive. Cognitive is all about filling your bucket with information so that you know things you can use and share and benefit from. Affective is your social style, your values, your emotions, your beliefs. And those also are an empty bucket at birth. Except I think you kind of have social style. Introvert to extrovert from the get go. It hasn't been proven just how steady that is over life. I believe you don't radically change, but what you learn is to adapt. So I've seen you be very introverted when we've been together in deep think conversations. People wouldn't believe how in those moments, how introverted you can be in your own home, right? I mean, where you're living, how you set it up, that home is the home of an introvert. In this setting, you're an extrovert. Same is true of me. I'm, you know, I can banter with you all day as an extrovert, but when I go home with, when I'm with my grandchildren, I go from introvert to extrovert with them, depending on which one, what do they need and how I respond. So the affect, the social style is something you use in a very adaptive way. And smart people learn when to turn it on and off. The conative is the one solid, lasting truth about you. Totally sustainable. You will always be Joe. You will always have this talent. There is nothing anyone can do to you. They could beat you up, abuse you emotionally. I know some of your life. Yeah. All the things that have happened in a very eventful life have never robbed you of being Joe. Because your conative instincts are deeply embedded in your brain. My brain research shows that it is the part of you that's most protected in a physiological sense. It's what makes you tick. This makes you do what you do the way you do it. It's not why you do it. That's affect and it's not the logic behind what you do. It is the truthful, instinctive drive.

Yeah. The way you do it.

Yep.

Okay. Love it. So is there a dark side of the conative part of the mind?

There's a dark side of the way people use it. And for that reason I've been called in my own company the queen of sales prevention for over two decades. I would not allow this to be used in education. My fear was before we had enough ways of training teachers, books written, things available to train and back up this truth. A teacher getting this about you when you were in second, third, fifth, eighth grade, most any of your education until university. If I gave this to a teacher, they'd look at it and say, oh, not enough fact finder detail to go to college. Oh, doesn't finish what he starts. Not dependable, tough student to have in the class. Oh, going to talk and interrupt all the time. This is an ADD kid. Where's the meds? Right?

You mentioned to me once, I know the first time we've had discussions about this, but you said that you did a lot of research on the educational system and found that the vast majorities of. Oh, I'll let you tell it. What's the research that you discovered and how basically they drug some of the most creative kids and label them with ADD and other mental conditions because the school system doesn't know how to deal with them because of the different MOs of the people.

Research shows there is no research that identifies correctly when someone is ADD or adhd. Nothing. Therefore, when kids are identified add, adhd, it's because of behaviors, not because of some test that proves it. Those behaviors are very often quick start, talks a lot, implementer, moves around, fiddles with things, can't sit still and lack of completing the assignment, lack of turning things in, lack of doing anything consistently. So you're always up and around and doing stuff and you can't sit down and you're not manageable in a classroom and therefore the teacher. What we found was over 78% of grade school teachers have long blue follow through lines. They are very orderly, they are very systematic. They have a regular schedule. The more follow through you have, the more order you need in your life and the more you will insist on having order around you. So teachers are demanding order. You are not fitting into that system. Teachers are, and this is astounding. Over 80% of grade school teachers have little short quick start, meaning they stabilize, which is great. It's a wonderful talent. They do not take risks and they don't see into the future. They deal with the past and that means they don't know how to deal with you the way you do the assignments.

Do you get punished a lot or sent to the principal? When I was in school, yeah.

Several principals have told me that with this kind of an mo especially if you had a little less fact finder too. Those are their frequent flyers, the ones that are always being sent to the principal. Now what does that mean? It means that the teacher and the principal who got to be a principal because they were good at systems and details and strategies, those people see people like you, who are different as having a problem. So they see it as a learning disability. What it is is a system disables you. The system does not enable you and people like you to learn with the same freedom that students like them can learn with. So we find in our research there's a correlation between conative mo and grades. And this goes all the way through the university. So university students have higher grades if they're fact finder. Actually you get some rewards in taking the SAT for having quick start because you finish it fast. The follow throughs get dinged on a test like that because anything that's graded with a time definition, if you have to speed up. So what happens here is you start to think I'm not so smart, I didn't get good grades. And so you tune out even more from the system. You rebel. You even get labels. Not only ADD adhd, but being defiant, a lot of negative labels. And so what do they do? They start giving meds. That is child abuse, pure and simple. And I can't wait for the day when I testify in court and go get them because they are harming kids. They being the people, they don't mean to do it. I'm not saying teachers are bad without reading the research that I have put out there, it's in my books. It's on my website without paying any attention to something they don't know and need to know. The educational system is harming kids, and we can't stand still and let that happen to our children, our grandchildren, our nieces and nephews. Got to stop it.

Wow.

Wow.

That's very interesting. So for someone who's hearing this, that may be a teacher and be like, wow, either they're going to fight against that or they're going to maybe say, I should take a look at it, what would you say to them? What would you recommend? If you could wave a magic wand, what would you want to have happen that you think would add the most value to the students, to the system, to the teachers?

Well, I'm trying to create the magic wand because I've tried too hard to wave the ones that are on the market and they don't really work very well. So the magic wand I'm trying to create says we're all in this together. You wouldn't be a teacher if you didn't care about kids. You really want to help. And I'm not saying anything about your motives or your attitudes or your affect, but you're wrong if you don't understand that a kid can be a perfectly wonderful student and have an MO or behaviors like this. What we need to do, in my opinion, and what I started to do a few years ago, was go directly to the kids and their parents and say to the teachers, teacher, you keep teaching the way you teach. We'll come into the schools and talk directly to the kids. Just let us in and give us 15 minutes, touch time, have the kids take the Colby index, give us 15 minutes, and we can change their lives. And that's happening. Then I said, okay, that's too labor intense. We can't reach enough. My goal is that every single middle school kid in America will know their cognitive strengths and be able to choose professions, majors in college, relationship situations, be able to make decisions based on their truth and their reality. I'm almost there, Jo. I think in the next couple years, I'm going to be giving away a Colby career program that has a brief assessment of kids mos. And we can do this with adults, too, and then tell them these are the careers to stay away from. These are the careers that would work for you and give them some clues, not try to give them too much information, not to overwhelm them with all the science behind it. Just say, do this, don't do that in terms of a career or major and see what happens. I know I'm right. I mean, I've interviewed over 100,000 people for this program over the years in different careers. We have 1200 careers in that program that will be rated for each person who takes it individually on a scale from 1 to 100.

That would be really valuable for people that don't know what they want to do with their lives.

I did it for you. For you to be a talk show host is a 98 percenter.

So I've probably done over 450 interviews now. Well, so one of the things I've heard a lot from people that after they take a Colby and pay attention to what it says, that the word I think I've heard the most from entrepreneurs is liberation.

Yeah, I hear liberation and I hear validate. A guy like our friend Dan Sullivan talks a lot about what a freeing moment it was when he took the Colby and how it validated what he knew, but he didn't know how to describe gives you terminology. These 16 pages are filled with examples and terms and words to use to describe. Every one of these is a strength. There are no weaknesses.

Yeah, so let me clarify that too. It's not right or wrong to have low or high that, it's just who you are.

I don't even use low and high in this zone, as I call it an implementer. You aren't a hands on guy who's going, you've got a new watch. Okay, there's a good example.

I have my Apple watch.

It seemed like I have a four and implementer. So I'm a little hands on with my Apple watch. You have a three, you're less hands on. So you've got it, but you've got it over there somewhere in a briefcase. And I keep saying put it on and use it. It's really.

I just got it. So I just learned how to use it.

I'm teasing you, of course, but the point is you're not a mechanical guy.

No, I don't want to figure out how to do that.

You turn that over to wonderful facilitators who are in the room, people on two cameras here, both facilitators, accommodating your need. And bless them. Oh, you facilitators are so important to the world because you accommodate in every mode and you don't insist on one way of doing it or resist another. The two of us need you in our lives. You're the core of a team. So we're able to validate wherever you are here. And your strength, your strength and implementer is that you can imagine. I've talked to you about even the house before. You were very far along on it and you were imagining what were you going to do with the rocks and what we were going to do with the walls. And you could see it, but could you build it? I don't think so.

I could never build it.

But those people out there building your house, they've got longer lines in implementer, so each one of these talents should be valued. Implementer in our culture is not valued in the academic environment, it's valued when we need the quality they bring, the safety. These are the people who provide transportation and safety, the ones with the long line. Without them, we're in a world of hurt.

That's. We're in a world of hurt without them. There are things that you'll say that I'll repeat just because I think are very, very interesting and interesting.

If you don't repeat it, you don't like it.

No, I put more emphasis on it.

That's a little play on this, because he doesn't repeat much of anything. So it's a real treasure. Follow through. Say it once and then it's gone and they can't even catch you say to a facilitator, write down what I just said, because you don't remember.

Right. Exactly. So Dan Sullivan, I heard him say in the context of talking about Colby years ago, that there's no bad work in the world. There's this bad work for certain people.

Yes.

And so some people will see someone doing a job and they're like, God, I feel so bad for that person. I would hate to do that. Not realizing that what you're doing, that person would probably hate what you're doing.

Maybe. Well, they say the greatest fear is public speaking, but I think the people who tested that were fact finder, follow through researchers. Because for you and me, the greatest fear is not being able to speak.

Yeah. What would happen if we couldn't.

Whoa. If we couldn't get out there and talk to people? We'd dry up and kind of.

It's like someone said to me once at one of my coaching groups, this woman who had been a client for probably like five years, she'd been in a monthly, you know, not an inexpensive investment in their future. In her future. And she was in there with her husband, and she said, I come to you for ideas. And I stopped for a minute and really thought about that. And I was like, that's so. I'm like, you come to me for ideas. She's like, yeah, I just, you know, I just don't come up with ideas. And you come up with these great ideas. And I was like, you know, I have to talk about these ideas because I'm bombarded with ideas. I need to regurgitate these and get these things out of my head, because if I don't talk about the ideas. And it was so funny because it didn't dawn on me that some people, that just doesn't come easily to, how do you not come up with a bazillion ideas? And it taught me a lot about my mind, saying, wow, what I have here, other people don't experience.

That's right.

And they will pay me to come and do what to me, I'm like, part of me building this marketing company and part of it publishing what it is that I do and doing podcasts and everything is, I need to get these things out of my head because they're doing no good if they just stay within me. I want to share them with the world.

Absolutely true. I think it's in this book I wrote for the quick starts. I don't know if you've read this one yet. No. But in here, I say, and see if this resonates with you. You learn what you're thinking when you hear yourself say it.

Absolutely. I will figure things out as I'm talking.

And one of the dangers of that is when people like you and me, with this quick start we both have, we get so excited because it's the first time we ever heard that idea. And I'll say, oh, that's a great idea. I love it. We've got to do that. The head of a utility company, a very big utility company, is an Aiden quickstart. And he said, yes, Kathy, I do that. And what happened when time was, I said that this idea that I had, and he's also a PhD in engineering, said, I had this idea for how to engineer this gizmo that would make it possible to do this amazing thing to save money on rates of cooling homes and stuff in Arizona. And he said. So I blurted out, this is fantastic. We have to do it. The sooner the better. Typical thing we would say when we get excited about an idea. He said, three months later, I hear this rickety, rackety noise coming down the hallway and this knock on my door, and this group of very expensive engineers come in and do a demonstration. And I'm saying, what are you demonstrating? It's the idea you had. He said, oh, no, no. I knew the next day that was stupid. You'll never get this to work. No, I never meant for you to do it. They had spent over $30,000 developing something that he had forgotten about the next day. Wow, that story's been repeated with a lot of my clients where that happens. We're so good at selling, but sometimes the people around us don't come back and check, do you like it again today? Is it still a good idea?

Which is why it is one of the beauties of Colby, which you teach people is how to find matches of individuals that you will work well together. And so, like in my company, we do not hire anybody if they do not do a Colby because it helps us with the selection process. It not only helps us, but would help anyone that we hire, because then we know. And so you've really developed this out well. So going back to freedom, how are freedom and conation related?

The kind of freedom we need. We need intellectual freedom, so we need to pursue ideas and thoughts. We need the freedom to express opinions and to advocate, which is advocate. But if we don't have the freedom to do all that in our own way. If I had to act like a fact finder or you had to act like a Falito, if you had to follow a rigid bureaucratic system, you would not have the freedom to find the joy, to find your purpose, to. To act on ideas. And if I had to justify every single thing that I deal with theoretically, then I wouldn't have all these case studies and all these clients who I've been able to reach. So I started dealing with clients where I'd say, if I'm right, now I know I'm right because I've done the research. But there were a lot of people who used my work before. I would say I believe I'm right, think I'm right, but I couldn't prove it yet. So I needed the freedom to be the theorist I am. That's a combination of quick start, follow through. You need the freedom to be highly, highly innovative. Everyone needs the freedom to be the freedom to be, which means to be cognitively who you are, to be authentic when we don't get it. And again, the protocols I've written for brain research are very clear. I put the EEG cap on you. I should have done this with you, sign you up for this.

I'll add that on the list, put.

The EEG cap on you, and I let you solve a problem that I give you any way you want to. And we see the brain moves along when I ask you, then required that you now solve the problem in a way I know doesn't fit you. So in your case, I'd say I want you to do it exactly the way you did it last time without changing anything. The moment I say that, your jaw sets. If we had the camera on your jaw on this side, I saw it happening. You lock up and you start thinking about ways you could cheat. Not really cheat, but that's what it gets called because you didn't follow the rules. It's the way you need to do it. So if you don't get to use it your way, what happens in the brain? And I have the monitor in front of me. As I'm doing the protocol, the brain starts going. I don't think it makes that noise, but I get to say it. This movement is the brain dithering. It's the brain looking for a way to do it and going into stress and using so much of your energy and power because you have an unlimited amount of this if you re energize. But if you keep working against your grain, you will burn out. Burnout is conative. Stress between two people destroys relationships. And most stress is conative.

Wow, that is fascinating.

Stress causes illness. Conative stress and illness. We're beginning to build quite a lot of data that shows the lack of freedom to be yourself causes so much stress. It affects your heart rate. We know it's affecting your brain. It can even affect your vision. It affects your speech. I have video showing the degree to which it affects your posture, your speech, your eye contact. Everything goes away when you're robbed of the freedom to be yourself and think how you then present yourself ineffectively and it's just a downward spiral. Wow.

Have you ever done Colby in the prison system?

Yes.

What did you discover?

Quite a bit. Well, first of all, the people in the prison system who were in programs to become entrepreneurs, by and large were not entrepreneurial in their MO and that the people. It's so interesting because we found the people who are getting caught in drug dealing are the ones who didn't have the natural entrepreneurial skill to get away with it. And so I believe that the really successful drug dealers look a lot like CFOs.

Yeah, interesting.

They're fact finder follow throughs. They're university professor in their mo, not in their careers. I'm not saying that. But it is so interesting that the ones who get caught didn't have that quick start to shortcut and get around the system. It's terribly unfair. We find the highly adjudicated juveniles are Also more the follow through, fact finders and the quick starts are out there egging them on and getting away with it. Our system doesn't know how to deal with that. We've worked a lot with the people who are trying to educate people in prisons, both in the juvenile detention centers and in the adult population.

Well and plus also I mean I believe the treatment of addicts, the way that they're imprisoned is the modern form of human slavery. But it's like a lot of what you have discovered is that if you're in crisis you're just gonna, you're just not settled. I mean life doesn't work for you when you're in that place.

And when you're in crisis, the last thing you need is for someone else to tell you what you should be doing. You need to find your own way, your own path. And that's why knowing this is so important. You know one thing also that is so interesting to look at is how many people who are handicapped, so called, so we've mentioned ADD, ADHD, but autistic kids, people who have lower IQs, you go to schools and you watch how they're treating them and they're treating them all as if they're follow throughs, they need a regimen, they need to follow the system. We need to have them do the same thing every day at the same time, seven days a week so that there's consistency. We have found that is absolutely not true. With our non verbal assessments we can see the MO of handicapped people and they have the same variety that the rest of the population has of mosquito. So and by the way, there's no gender bias in this, none. So when you know the MO of a handicapped person, and this is true with Alzheimer's patients too, you can reduce their stress and help them manage themselves, the world around them, learning whatever it is they need, they can self manage better when you take away what you think they have to do and let them pick and choose and direct it toward what when you'll get lots of information when you do that from us of do this, don't do that.

Which is what's great because it doesn't just give you like oh here's who you are, it actually tells you, here's what to do and what not to do.

I'm pretty mouthy about that.

Yeah, of course you're quite opinionated but your opinions are based on tons of information.

It's a matter of I'm not just going to tell you what's wrong with every single diagnostic where we say, here's what's likely to happen. So it's very predictive, but I will not predict something without helping you improve it and try to create that freedom. So every result, every single thing I do comes with prescriptions for leading that to freedom and truth. It's always prescriptive. I just won't. There's no such thing as bad news. It's always helpful. People have told me I waste a lot of time doing that because people aren't going to read all that well. I don't believe it's ever a waste of time to do what will make a difference. Maybe that sounds goody two shoes, but no, that's my truth.

I like it. I like it. So in order for someone to better understand what drives them, their modes of operation, and then kick it into high gear and thrive, what must they do?

You need to know yourself and not just how smart you are or how very nice you are, you need to know who you are, how you get things done. So you need to get your cognitive result. If I had a good competitor who knew what I know and is built on the kind of data, I would actually send you to them. But there isn't one. So it's not because I think you have to come to something I did. It's just that there isn't any other way to get this information. I've begged professors to write books on this subject and do research. And one leading psychologist at Harvard told me, Kathy, and he happened to be a good friend. He said, kathy, if I started researching your work, it would prove mine wrong and I would have to rewrite every book I've ever written. Oh geez, isn't that going to do it? So having said that, you have to seek the truth of who you are and then you have to fight like hell to get the freedom to be who you are. And I want to give people the information and then give them the determination, the absolute commitment to themselves that I will find that freedom. I will not be a battered wife, I will not be an abused child. I will not be an employee who is overlooked. I will be someone to reckon with. Wow.

Helps people get their power.

It is. Oh, I like that. It is your power.

How would you describe or define personal power? Like what does that look like? No, I mean really, because when someone feels it and says, you know, they're not second guessing themselves, they just like in your world where you know your area, you have powerful confidence and I've seen you. I mean, you can go to battle when you you know, and I will. And you will. Yeah.

Personal power comes from knowing the truth and being able to deal with it and thrive by fighting for the freedom to use it and just. Yeah. I mean, you don't have to be. I'm an introvert. I'm a brain damaged dyslexic introvert and I'm a woman, 75 years old. I don't have any less power than you do as this outspoken middle aged guy with all the media around you. We're equals. Every human being is an equal. I tell my grandchildren they can beat me any day at any game that they pick that they know I can't win. And I try to help them figure out the game they can beat me at because that's part of it. You have to figure out what's your game, how do you play it, what do you do? Well, that's why this careers program matters so much. You find out where your power is.

So with all the kids going to colleges, many getting embroiled in debt that they can never get out of and trying to find what is they want to do, what impact is this? How does it relate to people?

Think of the compounding damage when you've picked the wrong major. It's not suited to you and future careers and you are paying big bucks and going in debt and then you get a job in that field and it doesn't work for you.

Yeah.

And again, we've done research and we found as an example with one university, they were having a high level of dropout in their third year of internship in their surgical residency. And they were saying, why are we losing these students? They've invested so much. Why are we losing them when they get to that third year? I had a guess, but I did the data and the data showed that the kids who like you aren't natural, hands on, when they had to get up there all day and suture and they had to cut and they had to work with tools, they were all thumbs. They weren't natural with that equipment. It wasn't working for them. They did fantastically when it was book learning, but they weren't great surgeons. We tracked and found that that was the number one conative reason. It was a conative reason. It was primarily a conative reason that they were dropping out. Where did they go? What happened to them? Most of them started all over again and became lawyers or accountants.

Wow.

Think of the investment of the university, the investment of their parents, the investment of the students, the horrendous debt, the waste. We could have told them that for a few bucks. A few bucks, 15 minutes and a few bucks. Wow.

I mean if you look at the economic damage and cost of that, it has got to be in the billions, truly. And that's just financially not taking the human lives or kids going into doing something like maybe well meaning parents that are going to recommend something to their children that has nothing to do with what their M.O.

Is family businesses. The oldest son is going to become the head of it. Not if that isn't his M.O. the daughter is going to be the accountant. Not if it isn't her M.O. and they may do it and bring the family business down because they didn't have the right MO.

You mentioned that mentoring and coaching only works when you have a conative match. And so I want you to describe what that means because there's a lot of people that would listen to something to try to learn or discover something that go for. They have mentors, they invest in coaching. But a lot of people say well, you know, it's not working for me. And that was an interesting thing that you mentioned. So I want you to talk about that and what that means.

Okay, so let's say I'm mentoring you and my MO is upside down kind of. It's hard to see that. But if we said my mouth was that. I am a wonderful follow through franchisor. I'm really good at setting up franchises and having everything follow a system. And I'm also a scholar and I do a lot of research and I'm really good with strategies. So I'm a strategic planner is what I call. I've got shortcut names for all these things to simplify it. So I'm a strategic planner, fact finder, follow through. And I sit down with you and I say, Joe, you're so smart, you come up with such great ideas, you ought to franchise them. You ought to find people who you can train to do exactly what you tell them to do and you ought to set up systems for that. So there are a whole bunch of genius networks around the world that all mimic what you do and set up the programs and you can sit back and collect the money because that will build and all these people will be doing what you do. What a terrible thing to do. To Joe Polish. It's a brilliant business model. Nothing wrong with the business model. And it works for a fact finder follow through. And I have the data. I have data that looks at what entrepreneurial MO and the franchisor strategic people's business models. That business model Would feel like what to you?

Like a boatload of work that I have no interest in doing and a lot of details. And it would just certainly not fit what I do.

You'd spend all day long feeling cooped up. You'd feel constrained, you'd feel, gosh, it seemed like such a good idea. How did I do this to myself? How many people do you know? I counsel a lot who have made tons of money and tears in their eyes when they see the result and say, I have done such harm to myself. I haven't had the freedom to be me. And the pain of realizing what they did and how they did it. You, my friend, have never done that to yourself. You've known who you were since 96 and you had some pretty good instincts about it before then. But I find mentors tend to tell people to do it the way that worked for them. Their ways the right way. Drucker tells everybody to do it Drucker's way. And Drucker was probably a fact finder. Quick start. And Peters tells everybody to do it his way. Seems like a quick start with some implementer. You can go down the line of business gurus or therapists or any kind of a guru. I mean, and grooves are really people who just want to mentor thousands, but they mentor them by telling them my way is the right way. Don't tell everybody that they can get rich by being an entrepreneur. And you wouldn't. Because not everybody is a natural entrepreneur.

Exactly.

Entrepreneurs are like you. Quick start, second suit, fact finder. You aren't going to be an entrepreneur if you're a follow through first factor. Follow through first, fact finder, second, or some combination of that. Because you need security and there's no security in being an entrepreneur. So there are a lot of things. We picked a lot of words our whole mentoring when I. You started to use the word. And I find myself kind of moving in my seat like I get agitated by the very topic because nobody can prove what they're doing is right. The evidence shows there's not much impact. And yet they won't change because that's kind of the. Well, the easy way is to pick all the volunteers and then assign them to someone in the same field of work or the same age or the same gender or the same. But they don't go to the same mo. And that's just right now. I'm sorry, that's inexcusable ignorance. I used to say, okay, I know people don't get it. It's inexcusable. Ooh, I'm being harsh on.

Well, it could either be perceived as harsh or it could be perceived as. Damn it, I know this. There's something that could be done about it, and I'm sick of seeing this nonsense happen.

When we see so many case studies, so many situations where it turns around so easily, so quickly and so beautifully for wonderful, lasting, viable solutions, I can't stand it. Especially when we hurt kids. It's just wrong.

You know, one of the greatest. How do I say this? One of the greatest forms of leverage of your time, of your energy, of talent, of human resources, positively making great changes negatively, you know, well, taken away tremendous negatively is how can one decision or one insight answer a thousand questions? And that's the level of work that you're working on. I mean, I know from just the time we've spent together. I mean, that's.

I appreciate that.

I mean, you don't want to just. Let's just kind of adjust the, you know, the puzzle of all these thousand different things. Like, let's shift the whole damn thing and discard all the crap you don't even need to do. Because if someone, you know, like, oh, I hate my job and let me figure out if I can get a new boss, or maybe if I get up early in the morning, I'll start liking my job more, or maybe if I do affirmations, I'll like my job. Well, what if you find out that, like, you shouldn't be doing that job? That will answer a thousand complications in your life with one thing. And so I believe with this, you have the ability to solve dozens, if not hundreds, if not thousands of little things that you have never been able to figure out. And so that's why I think the importance of this. And so when you have that pissed offness or whatever the right term is about is you understand that and you just want the world to understand. And that's where your passion comes from. That's where your, you know, the anger comes from. And I think that's an important thing.

You know, I talked to a client this morning who I touched base with because I hadn't heard from her a while, and she's been a very senior CEO. Love. A woman, very accomplished, but she quit her job and kind of disappeared from the landscape. Hadn't heard from her for way too long. And I called her up and said, I'm sitting here thinking about you. I just want to know what's going on. How are you? And she said, oh, I've spent the entire summer in Bed. And I was fearful for okay, what's next? And I said, because. And she said, well, after I left the job, I left because it was just getting so stressful and I wanted more personal life and I hadn't had it in years and I thought it would be good. She said, I have been so sick. And she said, I've gone to so many doctors and nobody quite knows what's happening. I'm in terrible pain. I'm taking a whole lot of pain medicines. Nothing's working, my mind is starting to atrophy and at the same time I'm foggy all the time. And so I'm spending most of my time in bed. I know her mo. I know this woman is not meant to have left work to do nothing and to spend her time in bed. I said, well, when you do get out, where are you going? Well, I'm going to physical therapy. Well, what are they doing in physical therapy? Well, they've set up a routine and I follow that routine three days a week and I come home depressed. And she said, I have to admit I've started drinking very heavily, which I haven't done for decades. And I said, okay, so you're my client and you're a classic case of failure on my part. You've done everything wrong for your mo. You've not paid attention to what I've told you over the years when you were successful in business. I stop with the follow through stuff, stop with the routine and physical therapy. Do something different. Swim one day, walk another one day, do things. Because you're not a systems person who should be following a routine. Secondly, you're sitting in bed and reading books is what she said. I said you're not a book reader. That's never how you've gotten information. You need to be talking to people. You need to pick up the phone and be talking. Energized. Long and short of it is, we're almost. We're close to losing one of the great minds that I've ever worked with. I think I can turn it around. I hope it's not too late. But nobody was reinforcing for her. This is who you are. Stay with who you are. Nobody in the medical system was even asking her, well, what's your mouth. The medical system they wouldn't even need. It's broken. The medical system is worse than the schools. Worse. People die in much more pain than necessary because they die without freedom. We talk about dignity. Well, dignity ties to freedom. And if you make a patient do what you tell them to do every day instead of asking them what would you like to do? Or how can we have things happen your way. The entire school system is based around the system telling the student how to learn whether. And the entire medical world is based around the patient having to do what the doctors need them to do and what the nurse is. It's not built around patients, it's not individualized in any way for patients. So that's my next big take is to work at. I'm doing a lot of research. I need to do more program development and get it out there because what we're doing in the medical world is terrible. We have this information, Joe. We know it makes a difference. You've seen it, I've seen it. We have over a million case studies story after story after story. I don't want to write any more books. I just want to scream and yell until people listen.

What I would say to that is, well, I know you do scream and yell quite a bit, which is good.

No, I don't.

In your own way. Not like in like ah.

I don't really. Well, maybe I do. I pound tail.

I've never heard you scream. I hear you speak with strength and with conviction. That's how you talk, you know, it's great. And I would say to people watching this or listening to this, I mean anyone you know in the medical industry, any doctors, you know, many of them may not get it, may say screw this, I don't like hearing this.

But.

But it may sink in. I mean, obviously the reason that we're recording all this is I want it to be heard by as many people in the world as it.

And I don't want to get into politics, but it would be fun. I will say this. Obama is spending a whole lot of dollars on brain research. A whole lot of dollars. And he's going back to the people who have never solved these problems. He's going back to the people who are the experts, who all agree that they're the experts, who've all gone to the same universities, been trained by the same experts with the same textbooks and they haven't the solutions I know of not one single thing in that new brain research that's going to cover conation, not one thing. You cannot do brain research and eliminate one third of the brain from the discussion. And that's what they're doing now. Now I'd call it grafting corruption of a sort that we just keep reinforcing the same little intellectual elite and saying, oh, tell us again what you said before. That isn't working now. Oh, I like that. Tell us again what you said before that isn't working now. I'm going to remember that one. See, that's what quick starts do.

So with that, who would you, what would shift it? What needs to happen?

People like you and me, we're shifting out. We are. So I'm sitting here saying, and we need to do this. And we're doing it. We're sitting here doing it.

Bam. If someone out there heard this and was to call you and say, okay, Kathy, you know, I am in an authoritative position where I can actually do something about that. What do I do? What would you tell them?

I say, come on out and let's meet. I will spend a half a day with you. We'll explore everything you want to explore and then we'll see where we can take it. Because I'm wide open. If they're serious, I'll use my two, in fact finder and my staff will use some time to be sure they're real. But I'm really open to people in the last. Well, you're part of this. There's something happening here. Because in the last three weeks I have had three people who heard me speak or read my book 18 to 20 years ago who were coming to me and saying, you know, I heard you speak, I took your thing. It's kind of interesting. I didn't do much with it, but now I need to know more. I need to use this now. I'm in a position to make a difference now. I've lived the experiences and I remember it said in my results, don't do this. Those are the things I wish I hadn't done. You've proven to me over 20 years that you were right from the get go. Can you help me make a difference in whatever field they're in? Funny. I mean, it's interesting how that's happening. So I am not discouraged. If you're interested in making the careers program available to thousands of kids, go to Dynamind, y n a M-Y-N-D.com or infoolby.com either place and say, I want to talk to Kathy about careers, the ones for individual kids. We hope to get to them through schools and other programs on a larger scale because that's the way we can get it. Free. If you really want to pay for it, we, we might in a few months have it online.

Okay, great, great. And I'll put the links and everything with this video. Wherever you see this video or audio, we will Put the links there, because I want to make sure that this goes out to as many locations as possible, including to all of your clientele. And people need to hear more of Kathy. So here's a question I have, which is, when you think about the phrase know thyself, what is the cost of not knowing yourself? And what is the way to disc and be yourself? I mean, you've talked about it here, but I want you to go deeper with that because I think that's important.

The cost of not knowing yourself is not living up to your full potential, not thriving by seeking the destiny that you were meant to seek, by not being authentic. And that leads to pain and that leads to broken relationships, broken promises, dreams not realized.

And that would lead to a life that kind of sucks. That's a technical term.

And that would lead you outside the borders of the people. And I mean, no, it's just. No one wants to be outside that group.

Yeah, I agree. So what would be one of the most important questions or topics that I maybe should have asked you? Have not asked you. That we have not covered that you think is really important to discuss or talk about?

Why do I always wear bright colors?

Why do you always wear. And look at your glasses, too. I mean, they're, you know, you got some. A little bit of bling going on. Got the Apple watch. I mean, what's.

I don't know that I think of it as sort of with your. I don't think of it as bling, I think as a color. Because trusting your instincts means that you present yourself as who you really are. And if you're drawn to something, you put it on. And if it bores you, you don't wear it. The days I have to meet my financial advisor are the only times I wear black. And she's a good friend and she knows it, and she's been known to walk.

It's like you're going to a funeral or something.

It's going to be boring and dull. And I just instinctively put on dark kind of clothes that I do have because there are days that if I don't want to create and I really want downtime, I take off my green glasses. I put on. I've got some kind of dark gray sweatshirts and some dark black pants. And I sit there like a little mushroom and my brain just goes into, ooh. I don't do anything. I really am good at relaxing. And I know one of the things to relax is don't wear bright color. That's not true for everybody. Talking about mentoring. That's true for quick starts who are drawn to color and it energizes a quick start's brain.

Interesting.

And I saw it in the brain research. Totally different. If you're a follow through, if you're a follow through and you need to really relax and feel good about yourself and run that meeting or do whatever you're going to do with power personal persuasion, you don't always have to be as pushy as I am. You're just in control of your own life. Wear a coordinated outfit, everything matches, everything's coordinated, and you will feel so well put together and in charge and you'll go in there and you will make it happen.

Wow, I never thought of that.

Oh, yeah. And if you are an implementer, take your tools with you, even if it's a wrench and a hammer in your briefcase, you get the tools you need and before you walk in, you hammer away at something. I mean, you get physical and you try to have the meeting outside, and if it can't be outside, you certainly sit by a window. Implementers thrive with natural light. We all do to some extent, but implementers need it. Don't ever make an implementer sit in a room without natural light for any length of time. Implementers wear clothes that have texture and you'll see them kind of feeling their clothes. And don't misquote me on this implementer. Men tend to have facial hair and.

They just play around with it.

They play around with the facial hair. I was misquoted by this Aussie guy who was just took my work and turned it upside down and he said, implementers have beards. And Kathy Colby said, so. No, no, no, no, no, no. Women implementers don't grow beards because they're implementers. The fact finder will dress appropriately. And so you look on TV with the prognosticators or the people who do the interpretive and they research everything and they'll have those red ties on because red is the power color for a fact finder who's wearing the bright yellow, the quick start, a striped tie, red, sitting there in front of a tee, I can almost say, well, okay, six or more in factfinder. And if there are three of them at the table, it's so boring.

What about environments? So when it comes to the environment and where you function and work and live and sleep and relax and whatever, focus, what are your thoughts?

Well, it's so interesting because in relationships, okay, you've got a significant other and you need quick start color and fact finder texture. And this person needs follow through everything matchy, matchy and traditional. Fact finder is very traditional, appropriate. Fact finder will go for marble, and that marble is going to have not much color to it, but the marble is going to coordinate very nicely with the color wood. They're not going to have much difference. They're going to kind of integrate really well. And over here is the quick starts going with some glassy kind of effect with lights behind it. So who wins? I deal with this all the time. I work with architects and designers and people putting new offices. Feng shui, fine, but feng shui, sometimes it usually works, I think, but not to the same direct result, in my opinion, as being conatively condescending or trying to compromise. If you try to compromise what this person needs and what this person needs, you get the ugliest house I've ever entered because nothing there really works for anybody. And you can see the struggle and you feel it when you walk in. So one of my clients. Everything I say is a true story. This is a fact finder follow through. Financial genius, Harvard alum. So smart. I mean, she's a smart cookie. Married to a quick start. Implementer, rancher, cowboy, entrepreneur. After talking to me, they decided everything they'd been doing kind of in the house is wrong. They didn't want to have. This is his room to design, and this is hers, which a lot of my clients do. What they did is this is her wall and his wall. So you go into the dining room. She comes from this old traditional New England family. And so one end of the dining room is this sterling silver tea set with a gold gilted mirror with candelabras. And over here is a painting of her forefathers. And under that is this layout of crystalline china. On this wall is this photograph of you can't quite tell what is very, very abstract and just vibrant, vibrant colors. And behind it here is a 3D bull. I mean, it is just copper bull. That is just outrageously funny. That's my most fun dining room in the world. This is the most fun. And what I've observed and asked them about that is consistent is people know to sit where they're looking at which side is most appropriate to them. Colby. We build our own office. And this is too long a story, but I will say I designed built it and designed it absolutely to fit different mo's.

The new one.

No, the new one is different from the story. The old one. The old one, when you walked in there, depending upon where you sat, you either Saw a totally traditional view all the way down the hall. In terms of colors and accoutrements, it was all traditional. If you sat on the other side of the boardroom, which was the first thing when you walked in, it's this big, open boardroom. If you sat on the other side, what you saw was high innovation, bright color, lots of energy, and we would keep track. We knew the MO of our visitors, and they would almost always just naturally go sit in the right place. It was a hoot.

That's awesome. Well, okay, so I'll ask you about relationships. Married couples, family members, friends. How does Colby impact? How does it become a useful tool as it relates to getting along, staying together, having fun?

I've had people ask me, what's the right MO for me to marry? I had an offer Several years ago, $20 million if I would allow this guy to make a little handheld thing where you could walk into a bar and it would click if you. Someone else in the room had the right MO for you. So it was a dating game $20 million, 20 years ago. I said, I can't do that. Why? There isn't a right or wrong MO in a personal relationship. There is a right or wrong attitude about an MO if you don't respect the significant other for who she is, and you don't nurture that and you don't provide opportunities for her to have the freedom to be herself, whatever her MO is.

Or his.

Or his. I was kind of talking to your eyeballs.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah, whatever. Whichever. If you don't give that freedom and it comes with respect and dignity, if you don't do that, you're not. You shouldn't be in this relationship, because that's not a loving relationship. What is love about? Love is about really caring for value and nurturing the other person. How do we show love? Not by what we say we feel. Oh, I love you, I love you. I love you. Yeah, show me. It's all about show me. And show me is conative. And you show me how much you love me by how much you give me the freedom to be myself and how much you nurture that and how many opportunities you provide for it. Or whether you say, my way or the highway, or you say, I love you so much, but I can't let you do that, because that isn't what he or she needs. Sometimes your needs are in conflict. And we can measure that. We can tell you the degree of conflict. We can tell you the mode of conflict. And then, as I said, every time we see an issue, we give you a solution. We'll tell you what to do about it. Often it means this thing about togetherness. Was that the 70s or the 80s when togetherness came in? What a bunch of bull. You shouldn't be together a lot with someone if what he or she does drives you crazy. You can love each other and not spend so much time together. So I tell people who have very conflicted, conflicting, different mo's when they travel together. If she wants to stay in the hotel while you go to the museums, don't make her go with you. If he wants to read all the historical landmarks along the road, you get out and look at the flowers. You don't have to read it together. I always suggest meals together. So go on vacations because eating is a wonderful, wonderful. But there's a whole cognitive thing to eating. But eating together is really important. The rest of the time, togetherness can mean we got there together. But then we, my husband and I, we both love art. We will go to an art show. So we arrive together, we go our separate ways, and at the end we say, okay, we're going to get together at such and such a time, we get back together. But I can't do it the way he does it. And that's worked so successfully. Then we can talk about the art and we can enjoy the art and we take each other back to see certain things of art, but we don't do art the same way.

Wow, that's actually cool. Well, in a humorous way, can you use Colby to belittle people and make them feel bad about themselves?

Not in a humorous way, but I.

Seriously, I'm just making a joke here right now.

That's not a joke. I won't go there. I like to be funny with you, but no, don't ever belittle anybody about their own.

I recommend not doing that. Yeah, that's a good idea.

No, no, wait a minute. That's not true, Kathy. That's not true. We laugh all the time in our family about, yeah, that's just your follow through. Or, oh, your fact finder needs more information, Right? My grandkids tease David the aide. In fact finder, they will say, the moment you ask a question of dad instead of just Grandma will give it to you right away, mom will give it to them right away. Dad will get out his computer and Google it and see how much information he can find to give you. You know, little kids, they've got his number. We all, by the way, I can tell Mos with my grandchildren within the first couple hours of their birth. But you can see in the way little kids play because their play usually is striving. Conation only comes out when you strive. It does not come out in pure recreation. It doesn't come out when you're doing it just for the heck of it. It is the instinct to strive that brings out the conative. That's a very important point. So in a family, there are times we are not striving and so we know each other's mos. But you can't get me to come up with an idea if I'm in downtime because I'm not going to go there. I don't have any ideas. Grandma and grandma, what are we going to do? You think up something, Grandma and grandma, you always have something, feel like doing it because I don't feel like doing it. And the affect kicks in in the creative process. The way I view it is if you don't care, you won't ever use your conative energy for something. So you can withhold your conative energy. Okay.

Talking about your grandchildren.

Not that I ever like to do that.

I know that's your thing. You love your grandchildren. If you could only share a couple sentences or a paragraph of life advice for them, summarize it in a paragraph, what would it be? What would you say to them on how to live a fulfilling and successful connected life?

I've written that for most of them on the day they were born, and I've written it for the older ones on the day they went to college or whatever appropriate time. And it's pretty much always the same thing. Understand yourself and give yourself the freedom to do what you are destined to do. I mean, it's always words to the effect of fight for the freedom to be yourself. And yes, you often have to fight for that.

Awesome. What are you most proud of with your work? I mean, you've impacted, I mean, gosh, probably millions of lives.

I don't believe I've ever been asked that question before. What am I most proud of? I am most proud of what I'm going to do next year.

What are you going to do next year? Do you know?

I never. Part of the answer to that is I know some things I want to do. I don't know exactly how I'll do them or how well I'll do them. I'm proud of the fact that I'm always thinking what I'm going to do next. And I kind of don't take pride in what I've done in the past, because that's the past. I take pride in what I'm going to be doing.

There's this old punk band, the Ramones. They had this. I don't care about history. That's not where I want to be.

But fact finders are proud of things in the past and I don't begrudge them that, belittle it or disdain it. It goes back to relationships. When I'm in a relationship, either a family relationship or friendship or client, and I am praising them, I will praise a fact finder for something they've already done because anything else is false. Praise to them because they haven't done it yet. I will praise a quick start for something they are going to do and thinking about doing. Because the past means very little if you're not a fact finder. So you learn what and how to say things to people. And by the way, because I'm a little itty bitty too, in fact finder, I don't live in the past and I don't remember specific details of a lot of things. It's just not what a two in fact finder does means. I can't hold a grudge. It's one of the blessings that's useful. It is. I don't waste any energy on a drudge. I'll say, why don't we invite so and so to something? They'll say, kathy, don't you remember what she did to you? No. What has she did? Well, eight years ago, Fact finder, eight years ago she did this. And I said, oh, wow, I'm so glad I don't spend any time remembering that.

All right, so after everything we've talked about, what are the next steps for people that are listening to this, watching this, to take and to apply it?

Get to know your cognitive Strengths. Go to infoolbe.com if you want to talk about seminars or hearing a speech or the new things. But go to Colby.com, click on take the Colby A. Get your kids to go to the Colby Y. Have a family meeting. Get your employees together and do a seminar. I do them by Skype. We don't have to have the money of flying around. There are all kinds of ways we can but take action. Hire the right people by using the Colby right Fit program. Do it. What have you got? Well, I said to the Sun's coach many years ago, what have you got to lose? Because they were losing so badly. And he said, okay, I guess, Kathy, last I looked, you're 5:3, but maybe you could Help. That's when they went to the final. Wow. One of their coaches said, I'm better than some 5 foot 3 woman with a piece of technology. Listen to me. They've never gone back to the finals. Wow. Wow.

Well, there you go. So if you want to go to the finals in your own life. I'm thinking of a marketing pitcher. You know, I'm a marketing guy. What can I say? Any famous last words?

I love.

I love you too. You're awesome.

Thank you.

Yeah. And this is great. And so I really just appreciate. I mean, I know the effort. I mean, well, I know parts of it. The effort and just years of work and the battles and everything that you have done and that you're still willing to do. I mean, because, heck, as far as I'm concerned, I think you're always one of those people, like, I'm just getting started.

That's right.

And so for everyone listening, share this with anyone that has a place in a job, a career, an entrepreneur that's burnt out, that's unhappy, that can't seem to figure it out. This will be helpful. If you are an entrepreneur, do the Colby for your whole team, start using. It is a tool that will not only liberate you in many ways, but it will make you money, it will save you money, it will reduce stress. If you're anyone in the educational world that has influence, share this with people that need to hear it and contact Kathy if you think you can actually truly do something and learn about the careers program and wherever this is posted, share your comments. Let us know what you got out of this. And thank you.

Thank you.

Jump over there and give you a big hug. But we got this little hug. Thank you, Kathy. Awesome. And thank you for watching. Thank you for listening and good luck with your life. Life use Colby.