The Truth About Creating And Keeping Solid Relationships - I Love Marketing Episode #224

I'm dean jackson, he's joe polish, and.

This is the I love marketing podcast.

Hey, everybody, it's D. Dean Jackson and Joe Polish.

And I hope everyone is ready for what's going to be a very interesting and pretty awesome episode. We'll get right into it because we have our good friend Neil Strauss who's on the line with us, who called in for as much time as he can devote to this because he's in the middle of a whirlwind world tour. His brand new and probably most controversial book to date comes out today. And if you don't know who Neil is, we'll explain and ask him to describe himself. And me and Dean will give our perspectives on him in just a second. But he's written many, many New York Times best selling books, including the Dirt about Motley Crue and the Long Road to Hell with Marilyn Manson and How to Make Love Like a Porn Star with Jenna Jamison and Emergency and a whole bunch of books. He's probably interviewed more rock stars than any writer alive. He's a brilliant writer and just a guy who has just transformed himself in so many ways, going from subject to sub niche to niche to all kinds of fascinating things that he studied. But, Neil, you're in New York right now. Dean, I don't know what part of the world you're in. I'm in Arizona right now. Tell us who you are. What's going on? What are you doing right now?

I'm in my hotel room in New York. I'm between like whirlwind events, I guess. I'm speaking in Brooklyn tonight and I'm on the call with like two guys who are awesome, who I've known for a really long time. And actually, I don't know if I ever told you guys this, but I was once I started a book on the marketing community. Did I tell you that?

No.

Yeah, I was about you and Dean and all the other people who probably have been on your show. Because I just thought after the game, hey, what's the next kind of obvious thing to do? It's sort of the money game, right? Yeah. Yeah. Then talk about how that works. And so I really started doing it and. And then I got sidelined and did Emergency because I got worried about where the world was going and is going. So one day I'm just buttering you guys up for the next big expose.

I love it.

I love it.

Well, so one of your most well known books is the Game Penetrating the Secret Society of Pickup Artists. And you've Just done a follow up book which I was actually, I've had a lot of conversations with you about this before anyone ever knew the topic of the book. And today the book is officially coming out. So we're going to recommend to all of our listeners to go out and buy Dean's. I mean, Dean's.

Did I just say that?

Buy Deal's book, the Truth, an uncomfortable book about relationships. And what I want to do on the time you have, Neil, is kind of give some background on this. But since this is. I love marketing, we'll talk about kind of what you're doing with the marketing of the book and the promotion of the book. But since so much of the topic of this book has to do with things that are extremely personal to my life and what I think caused so much pain and suffering in other people's lives, and you being willing to write what you've written and just reading different articles from extraordinarily positive to people that are just trying to bash you, that have never even read the book, that have no clue what the hell the journey that you've been through. It's just fascinating to watch the public's reaction to this. But one thing that no one will ever be able to deny is that you are one of the greatest writers on the planet and your ability to write words that just get into someone's emotions and cause them to think and shift the way that they look at everything. I mean, you're just amazing at it. I'd love to just kind of have you get us up to speed of what the hell have you been spending the last couple of years doing and writing about in this book? Because I would really like all of our listeners for two things. One, you know, look at what Neil's doing just because of marketing needs to get done in order to get any message out there. But secondly, the book, I think is going to change a lot of people's lives.

Sure. Yeah. So discuss the writing really quickly. I mean, I really have two goals when I write and one is to just grab you and just drag you through page after page till you can't put it down. And let's just face it in like this kind of attention span, you know, society with so much competing for your attention, that call is bigger now. And so I do it not just with the words, but with the book design, with the images, with everything to sort of suck you into a world that you don't want to leave. And it's hard to do because the challenge is what's interesting to You. And then what's interesting to the reader, things that are really interesting to me that I felt like were important I have to let go of and understand that the reader may not be as interested as I am in those things. And so really, the art. The art of writing is not actually in the writing itself. It's in the editing after you write it. Yeah.

Yeah, that is a great line. I'll tell you.

The funny thing is that you're completely right in terms of not wanting to put something down. I mean, when we talked with you last time on the podcast, I shared the very first experience I had of you, before we even met, was at the Virgin Megastore picking up a copy of Don't Try this at Home, your book with Dave Navarro, and just three and a half hours later, being completely oblivious that all that time had just passed. And today, the book just came out today. So I had the pre order on ibooks. And so first thing when I woke up this morning, of course there it is waiting for me. And I have done nothing but read this book this morning. And again, I can't wait till we're finished here to get back and read the rest of it.

It's just. It's fascinating.

So you really are. There's very few people that have that ability to just, you know, suck you in and keep you riveted to the pages. And that's been the case with every one of your books that I've read.

So.

Yeah. Thank you. Yeah, thank you. And it's really. I think in some ways it's the ability to step back. To step back from your. Step back from yourself and step back from your own e. Recognize, okay, what needs to be said and how can it be said? And can you put a little. Can there be a little humor of it if you don't take yourself so seriously? I do think, like, one of the problems. I'm not gonna say the problems. One of the challenges in kind of marketing emails is sometimes, like, if you. If you are, and you can tell me if you agree or not, I'd be curious for your thoughts. But sometimes the best emails maybe are written by people who, like, just like, you know what? I'm just gonna toss this one off and not care about it and not try to, like, lace in everything I want to say and anticipate all objections and speak to a common enemy and, you know, and all that stuff. And just like, I'm just gonna goof off on this one. And somehow that's the one people really connect with. Because it's, it's, you know, it's still you. You're still doing it and you still have your point, but it's also has that authenticity and that lightness that's enjoyable to read.

Well, I think that really what comes through in this is the length of time and investment that you make in actually experiencing everything that goes in this book. I mean, this one, I know you've been working on this for four years, five years now.

Yeah, yeah, probably like five years of research and writing.

Yeah, five years. I mean, good lord. It's just the complete and total immersion, though, and every ounce of that comes through in the book.

You know, I think it has to go ahead, Joe.

No, no. Well, I'll. Let me finish it. Like it has to. I was just saying it's not just research that you've done on this book. You've been a human guinea pig with therapy and every kind of thing imag. For what you're writing about, which we'll get into in a minute. But yeah, go ahead and finish.

Yeah, that's true. I want to get into our discussions and see how much we can go. How much you want to go down the rabbit hole of our past discussions, Joe. But I'm excited to talk about those. But no, yeah, I was just going to say that it's interesting with a book, it's sort of the end result. There's no goal other than just to sort of express the experience of what happened in a way that other people can also learn, grow, take something from it. Because I think a lot of people read, you know, nonfiction books, but it's really kind of how to stuff and it's very listy and the brain doesn't learn. The brain learns through metaphor. And so it's important for me to tell the story because you're going to learn better through a story, I think, than any sort of, you know, bulleted list. Even though Joe, like, Joe has that great thing that you hand out your prana marketing little fold, folded card, Joe. Yeah, yeah, yeah, right. And it's like there's a hundred. There's all these great points and it's like so much wisdom on that. It's insane. But like, it's hard for me to even remember a single point on there, even though I read it before. Oh, the fact it's credo's. Yeah, yeah. And they're great. So much genius. But we learn through metaphor versus lists.

Love it. Love it.

I'm just going to do a card like that. It's just going to be a really great metaphor with one idea that you never forget.

And you have to unfold it eight times to get to it.

Exactly, exactly.

With a little graphic overview and all that. No, that's great.

But it's a great card because you never let it go. I treasure those credos. It's such a good idea.

Anyway, I was just with him over the weekend, too, which is cool. Okay, Neil, so let's talk about this book, because I really want people to go out and read it, and I'd love to hear the perspectives from people that we recommend to read it. I remember, I don't know how many years ago this was now, but you had called me. We were already friends. We just didn't. This. This added a whole nother layer to our knowing each other is you. I remember you calling me, and you had watched or seen an interview I did with pat Karns on YouTube about sex addiction, and you called me up and you're like, you know, what do you know about sex addiction? And that's kind of where it all started. And that was the first time where you were, you know, telling me about. You were going to, you know, put together this. This book and all of the shit that was going on in your life and you wrote. And I think the best starting point is a lot of people know you for writing the game. People that only have read your work, have never gone to any of your events, don't know you as a real human being. They have this perception of whatever the public makes you out to be. And when you write controversial stuff, people will come up and manufacture pretty much anything about who they think you are as a person. You have been on such a transformational journey in your own life. I mean, you have been willing to climb mountains and go through shit that most people, you know, literally week to week, that most people never even deal with in a lifetime. And I've been, you know, privy to some of that to see what you've been going through. So you wrote the Game about. You know, most people think of it as how to pick up women, although it's. It's a lot. You had different reasons for writing it than that. But now you wrote the truth, which is really about sex addiction, about relationships, about pain, about suffering, about ego, about so many different things. What is this new book about and why did you write it?

Yeah.

Great.

Yeah. And the game, really. It's funny because I was really. I was there writing for the New York Times. A book editor told me about this kind of underground culture of pickup artists. And really, the book was my own experience in it, but also reported, like, in other words, there's a lot of horrible things I witnessed that I put in the book as being horrible. Yet somehow the book became representative of the entire culture. It's a very bizarre thing. And it actually shows you, you know, in some. In some marketing. And again, if you think of it on a marketing level, and I know I don't, that. That the worst thing possible, this book being widely misunderstood actually, is what's also kept it in the culture for, you know, that 10 years later, people are still talking about it or they're still writing articles about it, which is kind of insane. So if it hadn't been misunderstood, you know, we might not be talking about it. So there's sort of an element of once you do something of letting go of control and allowing, you know, allowing the culture to make up its own story about it. So, yes, the new book really is. It's funny. It's really like the bookend to the game, if the game, in some ways, how to have an inauthentic relationship. The truth is how to have an authentic relationship. And by the way, one thing I recommend for everyone, since you're online anyway, is to go Patrick Carnes, who just mentioned, again, like, addiction. I know for myself, it was always a turn off when I heard people mentioning addicts and addiction. And he has this test, though, nothing to do with addiction, but this trauma scale test, the ptsi, have you taken it, Joe?

Yes.

Yeah, it's a great test printed out. And I learned this amazing thing about myself from it. So it's the ptsi. It looks like it's a lot of questions, but you answer really, really quickly. And it tells you kind of how your childhood, you know, affects your present and things you do. And that test there, I had one life change from that test, which is I ranked high in something called trauma bonding. Tell me if I'm going. So basically what it means is I'll connect with people maybe who aren't good for me or who, you know, maybe someone doesn't have my best interest or even I'll be like, my now wife would be like, why are you friends with that person? They, like, totally dissed you online. You're going out to dinner with them. I'm like, oh, I don't know. They were nice to me once. And so. And once I realized that, I'm like, oh, yeah, that's actually an unhealthy, dysfunctional behavior I have. And I do that because you Know of a certain way. I was raised and taught to see love. And so not to get, like, kind of heavy and psychological on the show, but you'll look at that and see patterns in yourself that will help make you aware of them and make you more successful in what you do. Because to me, like, beyond. I guess I'm going on a long tangent, but the point is. Yeah, so the truth. The truth is basically just my journey to be, like, authentic and have a real relationship, not a fake one. To stop being compulsive about sexual and any other behavior, many behaviors, and really just see the world in the bright place it is instead of the dark place I was living in.

Well, here's the thing. I've only just gotten into the book. I mean, you sent it to me, oh, gosh, probably a month ago. And unlike Dean, who's been reading it all morning, I've got my annual event coming up. But as usual, it's fucking awesome. I mean, just reading it, it's annoying because I keep it. I wish I didn't have a million things on my plate right now or this book would have already been done by the time I had a chance to talk with you about it. So I don't know how it ends, but what I do know is that you get into some pretty heavy stuff and you talk about, you know, prior to the game, you were, you know, obviously just trying to figure out how to, you know, interact with women and meet women and get sexual fulfillment and develop relationships or, you know, now you're married and you have a child, and a lot of people don't know that about you. So I want to ask you some things just about the subject of that, you know, why do you think great relationships go downhill is one subject. You know, maybe there's another question before that one, but I'm just really curious. Out of all of the stuff that you've. You've studied, like, you know, why do you think great relationships just, you know, go downhill once they start?

Spoken by someone who's. You're in a new great relationship. Correct?

Absolutely.

Yep.

Yes. How long has it been?

Oh, well, I knew her five years ago, but in terms of dating right now, we're about two and a half months in.

Okay, yeah. This is the great part. Okay, let me warn you. Let me tell you, here's what's gonna happen. And again, I know Joe. I know Joe through two relationships that follow the exact same pattern. So this is like. This forgets. This is just about you and your life right now, Joe, which Is, I love it.

I love it.

Which is. Let's just kind of watch this. Now, obviously, you talk to Dean all the time and kind of. Let's see what happens. Because there's sort of a pattern. And I'll say the overall pattern, and we can see how much we can talk. We can. You feel comfortable talking about yours. But the overall pattern is this. And this comes from. I think it comes from Harl Hendricks and some other people who say this. But it starts, right. It starts off as projection. You know, I'm not really seeing you. I'm seeing the person who I feel it can fit the empty space in my heart or the role in my life. And we're all both on our kind of best behavior and in this idea. But it's a lot of projection. And then over time, you start to. A couple things start to happen. One is you start to see the person as they really are, and they start to see you as they are. And people always say, this comes from Joseph Campbell. People always say, oh, I was disillusioned. You know, so disillusioned by him or her. And he says, what better to be than disillusioned? Get rid of your illusions and see who the person is. And to me, the real relationship happens at that point. And so what? The other thing that happens, and here's why great relationships go downhill, is people parentalize the other. You turn that person, without knowing it and not even realizing it, into mom or into dad in a way that's completely unaware. In other words, I'll give an example from my own stuff. So let's see. One day I was late. I was late, and there was a documentary crew waiting at my house. I was 15 minutes late, and Ingrid was like, hey, the documentary crew is here. Where are you? You're 15 minutes late. That's so rude. I was like, I'm coming, I'm coming. I'm sorry. We're just really late. And she said, I'll be there. I was just working out. And she says, so rude. And my first thought was, what a nag. Like, why is she telling me it's rude? I know it's my life. I can live my life how I want. Like, why are you nagging me and calling me rude? Like, you're my wife. You're supposed to support me. And it was my first thought. And then I realized, well, where is that coming from? Okay, again, I know this sounds so. I realize that that's not even true. Like, maybe my mom nagged my dad. And so I'm worried Ingrid's gonna be a nag. The fact is she says 100 positive things to me a day, you know, and all the time. And that. Is that true? Is it true that it's rude to leave a documentary crew waiting at your house for 15 minutes while you go to the gym? Yes, it's totally rude. And she's just stating an obvious fact. So I just said, you're right, it is rude. And then she said, hey, sorry, I really had a tough day. And, you know, and everyone's here. It's kind of crazy. And we got to have a relationship, but it's those little decision moments where I'm about to build up an entire story, an entire case against her that has nothing to do with her. It's just the way I saw my relationship, my parents relationship played out. So what happens is you think these things, you don't articulate them, they build into resentment. And that can happen. But what happens, according to Harville Hendricks, is there's a power struggle. There's a power. There's a power struggle phase when I'm trying to get you to be the good mom, or she's trying to get me to be the good dad, you know, the dad who won't abandon her. And for me, it's the mom who will give me trust and freedom. And we start being in this power struggle, trying to get our unmet childhood needs met from each other. So there's the power struggle phase, and from there is the power struggle outcome, which can be one of, I think, four things. One is a parallel marriage or relationship where it's like two people living in the same place, like together but apart, you know, not really communicating. The second one is like a hot. A hot marriage or relationship where everyone's fighting. The third is separating, and then the fourth is actually understanding really what's going on and then working on those issues together, which is what Ingrid and I have done. Yeah. Was that like a whole mouthful? You got to. Was that.

No, that was very good.

Fascinating.

It's interesting, right? It's interesting. Like, here's what, like, if the game was like, understanding the social dynamics of, you know, what we want when we're interacting with people. This is understanding those relationship dynamics. And once you see, like the matrix of it, like, everything makes sense. You understand why people pick the people they choose, why they have the problems, what's going on with the problems, how they can fix those. Like, you start to see it just as clear as you see whatever you're looking at in front of you. It's amazing.

I'll tell you, getting a phone number or meeting someone, picking someone up, however you want to describe it, is a completely different skill set that once you have that relationship, maintaining it and making it harmonious and growing and all of that. I think that's why so many people are reacting just initially, because I've been. What I have been reading and looking at today are articles and responses and comments to articles and things about your book and about the perception. And to me, it's fascinating how people are so quick to judge a book by its cover. I mean, the world is populated with people that have opinions about things that they haven't even done any depth or any research on. But there's very few people that make this sort of transition deal from the one world to another. It's almost like in marketing, it's. You can be in the transaction business or you can be in the relationship business, but they're two entirely different ways that you go about it. So what did the writing of this book do for you and your current relationship and where do you think it's. How do you think it's going to affect you as just a human being and as a man, as a parent?

Oh, my God. Yeah, it's fun. It's great. I'm glad we're talking about this stuff. It's real kind of life issue stuff. So one is. And the great thing about writing it, two great things about writing it, and then we'll talk about the parenting. The two great things was that when I saw myself on the page and I wrote it early on when I remember Joe, we used to have those discussions about like, you know, I'd discuss about monogamy and sex. And this doesn't make sense. And it's not. It's unnatural and all that. All these kind of like arguments I would come up with in my head. I remember us sitting in the car in Malibu and having these long. These long discussions about it. And so when I read myself on the page, when I actually wrote it down kind of as it was and read myself on the page, I could actually see you get the rare gift of stepping outside yourself and seeing yourself as you are. And that guy was kind of an idiot. Like, I looked at, like, I would read it, I would read it on the page. I'd be like, this guy thinks he's so right, but man, he is so lost. So actually, seeing yourself on the page is a great way. It's a great way to kind of step outside of yourself and really See, you know, really see what's going on with you. So that helped. And the second thing was when Ingrid read the book, which was obviously not.

Easy against your warning.

Yeah, well, what's interesting, the book begins with a warning for Ingrid to read it, but it ends with a warning. It ends with saying, hey, I hope you read this and get to know the real people.

Let me ask you something, Neil, as you're writing this, because you're saying, just like you said, you're thinking the thoughts here, reading what you've written on the page. Were you writing each section as you're experiencing it, or do you experience it, take notes, and then write the whole thing from beginning to end?

That's.

Yeah, almost.

I wonder if you wrote. Did you write the first section about while you were actually experiencing it, or are you writing it overall?

Right. Yeah, so I do both. I take, like, really extensive notes, and then I might start writing it from the beginning, maybe when I'm about, like, halfway through it. By the time I get to the end, they have both of the. Let's say the journey. And the journey ends just whenever I get to someplace where you land, usually everything's changed. And so I go back and rewrite the whole thing. So, yeah, it's an odd process, but definitely, like, every first draft of every book I've written would never be good, and we wouldn't be on this phone call talking about it. And I think that's it. It's like, it's about not being precious. Can you really let go of what you wrote and not feel like it? Like a child showing your parents your first shit and you're so proud of it because you made it. Can you let go of that? Can you let go of that and say, maybe it's shit and try to make something beautiful?

You know, what I love so far is the. I want to call it sort of the producerial kind of role that Rick Rubin is taking in. At least the first third of the book. I mean, you know, almost like exactly what he does. It reminded me when he's explaining to you his thoughts about something, because it's very. You know, the first third of the book that I've read has been, you know, just accented with some really, like, insightful advice from Rick Rubin. And I thought to myself, as I was reading it, it kind of reminds me, you know, I read about him, you know, telling Metallica to, you know, imagine that they're not Metallica, to go back and write the songs they would write if they were trying to Win this rock showcase. You know, like, just very few words, but car. So much gravity and so much, like, vector changing wisdom in them, you know.

Well, let me share. You play that role. Yeah, he absolutely did. And I'm. And I'm gonna get you. I want to get your take on something. Absolutely. He really, you know, in some sense, really produced my life. Like, he produced a record in the sense of just really responding honestly in the moment to what he's reacting to. So let me give you a piece of advice that he gave me, so I want to see what you guys think of it. Okay. Which is this. So it's maybe just four days ago. The book's about to come out. I'm really, really nervous. I spent five years working on it. I want it to do well, and, you know, what's happening, what do I need to do? And he says, you're done. Let go of it and move on.

Yeah.

Like, start working on the next work.

Okay.

What do you think of that as a podcast called I love marketing. What do you think?

So much of the thing Neil is. Here's the thing. The whole world now is going to have access to what's taken you the last five years. You've dedicated five years of your life in cloaked in secrecy, which you always are, for the most part, while you're writing and experiencing these. And then it comes out, and it's like this whole thing is being unleashed on the world, but you're already now on to the next thing. I think it's probably. I think Rick's probably experienced that with, you know, big artists that have, you know, are letting their albums go, releasing it out to the world, and knowing that they've been working on it for a year right.

Now. Again, it's easy to have a opinion about something without totally experiencing it or having been privy to the tone of his voice, the history of your relationship with him and all that. My. My perception of it would be knowing you, because we had a pretty intense conversation just a couple days ago preparing for this, and me hearing your kind of your emotional state of this book coming out, and this is a serious thing for you. I mean, you put your life into this for the last few years, and this is probably the most important body of work that you've ever created. At least that's my perception of it. And I think that's Rick's way of just saying, hey, man, don't let your ego get in the way of being happy. And you're at this point now, boom, you've done It I think it's his.

Way of.

Leading you to continue to stay in your higher self and not get attached to the outcome. Because it's real easy when you put a lot of effort into something that you want to see it win versus can you let your baby go and do its thing? I don't 100% know. Being a marketer, creating something, being able to sell it, is part of how much it gets out there. Or if you are truly one of those individuals that created so much momentum and then you put it out to the world, and the world kind of takes it on and does its thing. You're in one of those positions, though, Neil, where you've already written several New York Times best sellers. You got hundreds of thousands, if not millions of people that are fans of yours. You got a shit ton of detractors, which create a lot of noise and barking dogs bring attention even if they don't like you. And part of it is, can you go into this and not give a shit what the naysayers say and focus on the people that really do resonate with it? Because I believe this book will change people's perceptions entirely about how they think about stuff. And with that shift, you can actually change someone's life in a really good way. And even some of your books that are really. Some people consider very dark and very twisted, what it does is it shifts how you think and how you view things. In that place, you can make a decision to which way you want to go. It's not your job to parent the world. What your job is, is what you've taken on as a career, is just to write incredible bodies of work about a variety of different subjects. This happens to be one that you consider the most important one in the world, which is your freedom, your connection with the world, your connection intimately. You're going through your own experience of never having been able to do it. I mean, we talk about trauma bonds. Yeah, I'm the same way. I had a lot of crazy shit that happened to me as a child. I was molested as a kid. I had a lot of crazy sexual stu. An arousal template that desired things that were very unhealthy. I love the fact that you're writing about this because no one talks about this stuff, because the moment you mention it, you say something about sex addiction that conjures up a thought of, who is this guy? They don't realize this is an intimacy disorder. It's simply all this stuff about sex and about pickup. For the most part, people just want to Connect with other human beings. They want to connect with the world. They want to connect with meaning with their life. If you have to go through your life not being able to feel that even if you make a lot of money, even if you have a lot of fame, I mean, that's a very empty way to live. It's a very painful way to live. And you, in spite of all of this success and all of the things that you learned, there was a real internal hurt and you had to go through that shit. And most people that don't like having you write about it because they're in that same boat. They just don't have enough balls yet to face it. So it's a lot easier to attack somebody about like writing about this shit and say, oh, you know, he's just this famous guy or he's selling bullshit to people or whatever. They don't, they don't realize the war that some people have to fight because you may look like you're from privilege or you may have had some, you know, some success and everything. But these are, you know, these are very important topics. And my hope is that this changes the global conversation about relationships, about sexuality, about addiction, about all kinds of stuff that is completely misunderstood. And of course, I feel like I'm even going on a tangent here, just rambling. What I will say as it relates to, what's interesting to me in my world is that I think addiction is the biggest cause of human suffering on the planet. I think the way we treat addicts and at least drugs and alcohol treatment is the modern form of human slavery. And then you look, look at behavioral addictions and upbringing in childhood and how that just affects so many different things that we do. It's like fascinating. And I think you've probably written the most recent, most controversial, most potentially conversation changing book that to this date has ever been produced. And so Rick Rubin saying, let's see what happens. I mean, shit, I don't know, I don't know, but I think is a lot to think about.

Yeah, no, thank you for. There was a review in Grantland that really said, like, hey, I want everybody in my life to read this book. Not just people I know, but people I don't know. And she said exactly that. And it's like, you know, it just made me breathe a sigh of relief because exactly what you're saying is exactly, you know, why I wrote the book. And even beyond dictionary, just to understand yourself, to understand that kind of like you were saying earlier, there's certain people who, that having A discussion with someone. The best thing you could ever do is get what you wanted. You know, fame, money, sex, whatever it may be to get the things that you want. Or maybe it's even just buying your own home or other goals that people have. Get what you want and then realize, hey, maybe you're still not happy. And realize that all the things you're questing for on the outside, which is the game, are things that you should be looking for on the inside, which is the truth. Like there's a great line of getting self esteem not from the outside in, but from the inside out. And that's kind of the journey. And then you can operate in whatever you're doing from a place of power because no one can take anything away from you. If you have less money or more money or less fame or more fame, then your self esteem is just like a yo yo going up and down. But if you can operate from a place of solidity, then you can do what you do without fear and actually be great at it.

Right? Here's one of the things that being an addict actually taught me a lot about life in a couple things. For one, in my position and what I decided to do for a career, which is focus on helping people build and grow their businesses, mostly through marketing. And that's what most people think of me as, at least from a public thing, as this marketing guy. When I just want to connect people, I want to connect people with wisdom, with people, with anything that's going to reduce suffering and hopefully help them have a more productive, useful life. And I want that for myself. It's not fully philanthropic. I want that for myself. And what I learned about being an addict is human desperation at a level that I never could have ever thought I would ever go to and would ever want. I mean, who would want to be compulsive, who would want to be dysfunctional? But it's like there's so many things that manufacture that sort of behavior, from biochemical stuff in your brain to the environment, to being, from trauma to abandonment, to all kinds of crazy shit. But I ended up figuring out how to turn a small company around making money. And I got the ability to access forms of therapy and treatment that a lot of people don't. And I am a big fan of 12 step groups, although a lot of people are not. Because I like communities and I like hope heals in places like we can go to get hope. What I did is I ended up joining a high profile group for behavior addiction in, you know, around early 2000 and I ended up being in these groups with very famous people from Academy Award winning actors and actresses and famous musicians and politicians and people in sports. And I saw these individuals that the world would be like, they have everything. They got the money, they got the fame, they've got the relationships, they have anything that they want. And I saw these individuals that were just broken people in their personal lives. And I saw a level of human suffering that their success and their achievement wasn't driven out of just mere talent. Although many of them were talented, it wasn't driven out of inspiration. It was like they were so fucking broken that they somehow, some of them took that brokenness and they parlayed it into business or they parlayed it into celebrity, but they were just running and they were running and they were paying. I saw these individuals and it gave me a whole other perspective of like the greatest leaders of the world. Sometimes, at least what people think are the greatest leaders have the most painful sort of lives. And that was the starting point of realizing that humans are just trying to freaking get through life. They're just trying to function. And some do a really good job and kind of get through the hell. And other people, they never get out of it internally but on the outside. And so it is an inside job. I mean, all of this is, you know, it's all about, you know, internally. I mean, hell, I get more out of meditating for 20 minutes than the most extravagant vacations or doing all kinds of stuff. And, you know, I'm just. I'm learning a lot of, you know, so much shit that I used to think was so important to live a fulfilling life. I mean, you get older, you realize, you know, you go into really dark places. And so addiction has never been an easy thing. And I don't want to make this all about addiction. I mean, there's all kinds of other stuff. I mean, your book is way more than just about addictive tendencies and whatnot. But the thing for me is that I have a lot of empathy for people doing crazy shit, because I've seen it at all levels of society, from people that are homeless to people that are some of the most famous in the world. And there's not that much differences in all the same shit that humans are dealing with. How to make a relationship work, how to not be lonely, how to feel good about yourself. How to get through the day, how to go to sleep, how to feel any level of contentment, how to deal with overwhelm. I mean, it's just a whole hodgepodge and you just do such a masterful job of writing through your experiences, of transcending so much of it.

And what I love that you do, by the way, and I do it in the book as well, but you do with your listeners, audience, and a lot of people don't, is they're scared to be imperfect. We're all imperfect. We're human beings. Thus we're imperfect. Right? As the saying goes, we're perfectly imperfect. And you are great at just showing your vulnerabilities. And it doesn't hurt you at all in any way. I mean, and I do the same. If you show when you're not perfect, you show when you're not great, you show your failings. You tell people if you have an addiction or went to rehab and you feel fined, that it's okay, there's no shame, and you own your own story instead of having to hide your own story. Which really leads me to Dean. Dean, what's up with you, man? You know, they can stay silent. Silent. Yeah.

I was thinking about the. As I was reading parts of that, I imagined what it's like to actually be that revealing. And that's, you know, it's so. I think that's what makes your book so riveting, you know, is that you really allow yourself to go complete, full immersion into it and let everybody, you know, take on the whole journey with you. I mean, it felt like every thought that people. Or every thought I've read, every thought that you share in the book are thoughts that. It feels like there must be, you know, millions of people that share this exact thought process. And for you to say it and to own it and to experience it and to explore it, I think that's really just what makes it so riveting. I've always been fascinated, Neil, by your ability to five years out, be able to. I don't know whether you sense it or see it, you know, what's coming. But I look back to emergency, and when I first met you in 2005, that's sort of what you were working on, 2005, 2006, which didn't come out for, you know, three years later. And at 2005, 2006, an emergency or a, you know, a breakdown of the whole system was not kind of in the. In the world. It was the boom times. Everybody was kind of thinking that. But for you to be able to see what is going to be the zeitgeist, or whatever you want to call it, three or four years out is amazing. And the same thing with Some of the more biographical books that you've done.

And it's funny because, you know, Rick says, I have to go in a second, But Rick says that. You guys. You guys trick me, but I get tired of getting off the phone. It's so fascinating. It feels like five minutes have passed that Rick says that. You know, I'm not comparing myself to these people, but he says that, like, you know, great artists have an antenna, you know, that's exactly what it is.

Can you tell? I don't know whether it's top secret. The biography book.

Yeah. Yeah. No, I can't say that. Okay. No, but you can mention what it's about. The book.

Yeah. But everybody's gonna know what it does.

I started doing that one and, like, as soon as I was finished, all of a sudden, he's like, in the news every day. Exactly.

Holy cow.

Let me ask you this, because I know you got. What beliefs did you have to let go of as a process of. Because there was a lot of things that you just considered. This is the way life is. This is what I think. But you realize that, you know, because you had to give up and let go of a lot of stuff in order to, you know, get to where you are right now and to even produce what you've done. So what are some of the things that you had to let go of in terms of belief systems that you thought were the truth, but they really weren't sure?

I mean, in a nutshell, the biggest belief I had to let go of was that I knew anything. That anything I knew or thought there was any. That any of it was right. Because, you know, all my best thinking got me into the bad situation I got myself into. And literally, like. Because at one point. And I know how you are, Joe, Joe, you're like a voracious. You have voracious appetite for knowledge, and you're always working on yourself and taking these incredible seminars. And I still have to do the Hoffman process, which you recommended. I'm really excited to do that. And. And so I did that. I kind of surrounded myself with a lot of experts. I talked to all the right people. I did all these processes. But it wasn't until I actually added one key thing to it that I started to change or get better, which was like, complete and utter humility that I know nothing. Without that piece, like, literally, there would be no change because it's still your head doing all the things. And the truth is, you really don't. Now, I watch it happen all the time. I see people Say that person said that, and this means that. And because that means that this means that. And you're like, how do you know? How do you know? You don't know.

Okay, so what is your hope and belief that when someone. That this book will do? What do you want it to. What would the reader really get out of reading that? And I know a lot of that's like, well, it's perception. I mean, they might be entertained, but really, I know you want this to be more than just a book that someone reads and it's fascinated by. I know you want this to be.

Yeah. My ideal read is, again, the person in Grantland wrote it so well. Let me just see if I can. You know what? They wrote it so well in Grantland that I wish I could just take her words. But for me, ideally, like, I would love one read where you just enjoy the book and can't put it down because it's just giving you joy and compelling you, and you can't put it down. And then the second one is, now you go back and look at everything you underlined and you think about your own life. You start to see patterns you weren't aware of. You start to see maybe how you may be getting in your own way and patterns that you may be playing out that are detrimental to your own life, the lives of people around you. And then the third step is. And give it to that ex of yours who really needs to read it.

Well, you know, you talked about the disillusionment thing. That is a great thing that Joseph Campbell said. And then you were talking about something with Ingrid and then Dean interrupted and asked you a question. And I think that took.

It was so rude, Dean, to get a word in edgewise.

So rude.

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah. Stop doing that shit, Dean. I mean, quit dominating these conversations. What was this you were going to finish your thought on? Related to, you know, because my question was, you know, why do you think great relationships go downhill? And I don't think you were completely finished with your thinking on that, but maybe you were.

You know, I don't know, Dean just kind of ruined it. And now no one will ever.

Sorry, guys.

Yeah.

I still feel like Dean took like a left turn at the question, at the invitation to really open up. I feel like.

See how you act. Dean, we're going to have to do a separate interview just on some of the topics, which actually is true. True. I do want to do one just on the topic of this, but because this is. I love marketing. I wanted to kind of just make It a hodgepodge, different stuff, which is good. And as soon as you jump off.

Me, yeah, and here's the important thing, and then I'll jump over. I think the important thing is this, like everybody wants the tactics and techniques. That's what the game is and that's what a lot of the products that people buy are about. But if you don't work on the beliefs, you'll never be able to use the tactics. That's why most people know when they sell something, especially if it's about know, getting better or you know, biz ops and stuff like that. That a lot of people won't do it. Not because information doesn't work, because the person getting it doesn't work. I mean that in the sense that they have the belief that they're scared of success or they're scared of failure or, you know, they don't think that they're enough. Whatever belief is implanted in their head, it becomes a gulf between them and, and the outcome they want. So. So honestly that's why the stuff we're talking about is important.

Okay, last thing I'll ask you since I think this will be more about the whole subject of writing. You put a shit ton of work into it. I love when people try to think that what you do is an easy thing to do. I mean, we've known each other for many years and you're a guy that will literally go camp out in and literally work for long extended periods of time trying to do whatever you can to keep your attention so focused on it. So I know you have got literally when you say five years of work on this book, you have got five years of work on this book. And so people can read something in a few hours that you literally put five years of your life into and a shit ton of energy and stuff that you went through for all the people that are listening to. I mean, a lot of these people, they want to build new careers, they want to learn new skill sets, they want to be good at marketing, they want to be entrepreneurs. They are entrepreneurs. Some are very successful and others are young people starting out. What would you recommend to people to just create world class work? Because in your genre you are world class. You are one of the best writers, living writers in the world. How do you approach doing great work? I mean, it's a hard thing to do and it has to put forth effort. So what is the mindset or anything that you could say to it that allows someone to get to a place where they can be world class?

Yeah, I would have to say that it's actually the one subject this book is about. And I'm not just saying it because it can be in transition. It's commitment. You really have to commit to it and I to want watched. You were asking about fatherhood. And again, this stuff has taught me so much about what a good parent is and what a child needs. But, you know, and again, this may not be every son. This is just my son. I noticed that he doesn't try to do things. He is not trying to do things. He's practicing. He's always practicing. Like, you know, he's. He. When he's crawling, he's just always practicing. He's on his knees and arms. He's just practicing, practicing, practicing all the time. Now he's standing and every opportunity gets. He's trying to. He's standing. He's standing and then he's always trying to pull. So he. He just practices and he's committed to doing it. And that's like his goal. His goal in life right now is to, you know, walk without support. And that's all he does, is he practices and he doesn't. Every now and then he may try and when he tries, he gets frustrated and annoyed. But when he practices and is committed to that, you know, he gets great. So. So I think it's commitment, you know, dedication, practice, and the belief that it's worth it that, that, that if you're. For me with this book, for example, I work so hard on it and I certainly want everybody to read it and connect with it and get amazing things out of it. But even if they didn't, kind of like Rick said, I feel like it's good enough to be done, that the reward is in itself. My son. If he walks, it's good enough. No one needs to see it. They will, but walking is good enough. So it also has to be the outcome you want has to be from within and not from without. Maybe that's the other key.

I love it.

I love it.

Okay, so if people, if they want the book, it's called the Truth with the subtitle, An Uncomfortable Book about Relationships. Neil Strauss. If people want to. You're on a tour right now. We're going to put this episode out immediately. Since your book just came out, if people wanted to follow you and where you're at or maybe on the rare occasions see you in one of the cities and I know you're going all over the world, different parts of the world, how do they follow you?

Yeah, either just Go to my Neil Strauss.com page. N E I L S T R A U S S like Levi Strauss. And I'm sure it'll be up on the thing. So I hate when people do the dot com thing but I just did it so. And then either or you know, or just pick up the book on Amazon. But the tour dates are there and it'll be fun stuff on the road. I think I'm actually going to like bring people up on stage and work on. Have them work on the other some of the relationship stuff. So if you got a burning relationship question, show up and we'll answer. It's really fun. I did that. I did a secret event last night where we put up posters all over New York that were like the Peanuts cartoons with Lucy and it said relationship help $0.05 South Street Seaport. So a bunch of people showed up not knowing who was there. I just did as a warm up for the book tour and really helped people recognize patterns in themselves that they couldn't see. It really, really fun. So yeah. So hey, thank you guys for talking about this. It was really fun and thanks for sharing your stories. Joe and Dean. Now I want to next show. I do. I just want to interview Dean.

Yeah, we should, we should interview Dean about his dysfunctions but in his trauma bonds. I mean like. Yeah, because the fact that I even do a podcast with Dean, there's a trauma bond happening there.

For some bizarre reason.

I don't think it's Dean who has.

A trauma trauma bonding.

See how many nice things shows my.

Artificial enmeshing mother now.

Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly. You're never good enough. Stop interrupting me.

Yeah, he's trying to say stuff and you're interrupting me.

It's like Jesus.

No, but thank you Neil and good luck with everything. I want all of our listeners to read the book and then post their comments what they think about it. Because I know you'll find it fascinating when I'm completely 100% done with the book that I want to do another follow up interview with you, Neil, related to the, you know, just the whole thing. Because there's so, so much wisdom in this book. So thanks for taking the time. I know you got a crazy tour, so good luck with everything and we will talk soon.

All right. Thank you both. Alright, see you guys soon. Bye.

Thanks Neil.

Bye bye.

And Dean, me and you will just continue to talk. I'll be done.

I estimate that I'll be done by 9pm Good, good. It's fascinating.

Yeah. Talk about what you have learned and discovered so far.

Well, so I'm at the point where he has finished the first section of the book. So he's gone through rehab, he's gone through the one year experience there and now he's moving on to. I haven't started the second section yet, so I don't know anything else about it. But I'll tell you, I mean, if you're only, you're 30 pages in or 40 pages in or whatever you said, you know, it's just so. It is riveting. I mean, it's pretty, it's pretty fascinating to dive into. It was when I was saying to him earlier, you know, like, I don't know how long you've known Neil or I've, I've met him 10 years ago now through Eben. And you know, when I first met him, it was right after the game had just come out and he was already working on the next book, which was, as he said was going to be a money book, right? Like about, you know, get it, figuring out the online, you know, this whole new world of people that are making money online and this whole, that whole world. And then he started working on that book Emergency. And to have the foresight in the middle of one of the strongest economies that we've ever seen. I mean, you know, the post 911 economy and the boom and the run up to everything after that, we were living in like real prosperous times. And to foresee it not always being like that. And then by the time that he finishes the book and releases it, it's immediately on the heels of the big stock market crash in 2008 and then the foreclosure crisis and all of this stuff which had people really kind of reeling and either you start to realize, boy, this guy really like has this way. I'm glad I asked him whether we could talk about the biography he's working on now because he said we can't. But when people are. Because I probably would have mentioned it right now, but when people, when it comes out, they're gonna just be in awe at how timely this was, you know, because as soon as he finished, you know, he's almost finished with the book, but as soon as he's done it, this guy's just in the news every single day, you know, and it was, I mean, it was pretty amazing, you know.

Yeah, well, what's funny is like in the book, because he asked me if I wanted him to name my name when he would write about the book because there's a composite hodgepodge character like some of it based on me that's in the book. But he chose, out of respect to me, to leave me kind of anonymous and not say anything. Because Neil could very much be very revealing about a lot of people if he wants to.

Yes, he can. Exactly Right, right.

But, you know, we spent a lot of time talking about the topics and the subjects and everything in this book, so it's kind of near and dear to me to see how it ended up turning out. And plus, you know, I mean, I'm working on a book on addiction, on behavior. Addiction from sex addiction to workaholism to, you know, drugs and alcohol, and a lot of things related to addiction and how to, you know, not only how to think about it and about it. And a documentary. Yeah, I'm filming a documentary, which, you know, but again, I'm taking it very slow because addiction, it has to be portrayed, you know, you know, in the right way because so many people misunderstand it. And it, you know, you hear the term addict, it immediately conjures up so many things, especially when you talk about sex addiction. You know, sex addiction is an intimacy disorder, you know, more than it is like someone that's just some pervert that just wants to sleep with it.

Exactly right.

It could be he writes about, you know, sexual anorexia. You know, all addictions are binging or deprivation. And there's a lot of people that cannot be sexual at all, cannot go into relationships at all, because they're so hurt by it. And that be, you know, that could be another form of just unmanageable, out of control behavior, just in the form of not excess, but in extreme deprivation. And so it's, you know, I just like the fact that he wrote this book about, you know, relationships and about what he went through, because I think it's, you know, people, they're either going to love it or. Well, I think most people that read the book are just going to love it because everything that Neil writes, I mean, it's hard not to be sucked in.

I mean, you can't put it down. Yeah, yeah. I was thinking about that when you were. The things you've been going through with the. With the documentary and stuff, there's a lot of that in it. I mean, you're doing the same kind of process, really, you know, full immersion and experiencing things. And.

I'm my own human lab rat.

Right, exactly. And I think that comes across as the most authentic. You're not a field. I mean, you're not writing a book report. You're Writing a field report. Right. Of actually experiencing it, not researching it.

Yeah, most people, I'll say this here, I've not said it publicly yet, but I'm the first person in the world to have a before and after brain scan of taking one of the world's most powerful psychedelics in order to rewire neural pathways in the brain. And if you would ask me six months ago if I would have ever thought of psychedelics is something that used to treat addiction and now you have things like ibogaine. I introduced Tim Ferriss to Dr. Martin Polanco and Dr. Dan Engel and Tim recently interviewed them on the subject of psychedelics and ibogaine to treat addiction. And this shit's crazy to people that don't understand it. But it wasn't until I started doing massive amounts of research on this where I finding that people that are taking psychedelics like ibogaine for opiate addiction is where it's most successful. The success rate of it, when it's done by a practitioner that knows what the hell they're doing. Because unfortunately there's a lot of people that are using psychedelics recreationally, not intentionally, from people that are extraordinarily dangerous. So you can't just jump into themselves.

Let's go to Burning man and drop acid.

Right, right, exactly. The thing is done under the right circumstances. I mean, oh my God, the level of success that some people are having. But I'm looking at everything, I'm looking at all kinds of things from 12 step groups which are the most accessible ways for people with addictions to at least find other addicts and go into a room where they're not alone and get out of that isolation. Because addiction thrives in isolation. Addiction thrives with low self worth, addiction thrives in trauma. And it's not even about why someone is addicted. It's like my friend Gabor Mate, who's just this brilliant addiction doctor. He says, don't ask why the addiction but why the pain? Because addiction is just a symptom. It's a coping mechanism for dealing with things that people don't know have any other form of doing it. So it's actually a way to try to cope with a deep pain, a deep disconnection. So what I want to do is disconnect addiction through connection. And that's what my documentary will be about, that's what my book will be about on that subject. And then of course there's the stuff we do for business, which is genius network and marketing and all that other stuff. But to all of our listeners, we always want to do fascinating interviews, at least what we think would be interesting and turn you on to stuff, because a well rounded human being looks at all kinds of stuff. And the cool thing about watching Neil is you'll see some really powerful marketing, not only from the crowd, but just from what is done from a guy who has already had successful books. But I also want you to not just look at the marketing. I want you to, I think it all counts.

You can't separate the entrepreneur from the person because that's really what it is. Those entrepreneurs are, it's our own expression, is our businesses. But that's an out. You know, we're completely attached with our lives to that.

So.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, you mean that whole thing. I have to say though, you know, and I've known you now more than 20 years and we've had a, you know, as an observer in a fairly intimate relationship. I'd say the, the meditation has been, in my observation, the thing that has had the biggest impact on you. I mean, I've noticed that over the last couple of years. That, that's, you know.

You know what's funny? A lot of, a lot of people say that. I had lunch yesterday with, with my girlfriend and my friend Nordine, who is a former Miss Universe. He wrote Mind over by and he said that too yesterday. He goes, you know, since you started meditating, I noticed a total shift. But what's funny is to me, I don't consider it that. I just think that's one of many things. I mean, I use flow pods, you know, flotation through, you know, like truerest.com, which is a great franchise that they're starting to put all over the country.

And hopefully all over the world.

And you know, so floating and yoga. Yoga and eating.

I think that's probably it, that, that' syou're all encompassing your mindfulness practice. Right.

Yeah, that is it. You know, heck, I mean, even helping Ariana, you know, you say Ariana or Ariana, however people want to pronounce it, you know, Arianna Huffington's book, Thrive and just, you know, sleeping. I mean, getting proper sleep. All of these little rituals.

How's your early bed, early rise experiment going?

Much better, much better. I am getting up, you know, between 5 to 6:30am most days and it's, it's, you know, I've been in a.

Funny runner Sain Graziosi on the top of Camelback Mountain.

That was so funny. Yeah, it was so funny. Yeah. Aren't aware of this listening to our podcast, I posted a video where I was like climbing the mountain a couple weeks ago and I It and Dean Graziosi interviewed me later that day. And once he gets me that video, we'll put it up as an episode on I love Mark because it's actually. I think it's a pretty good interview. But I ran into him and he lives on the other side of this mountain from where I live. And we both ran in each other with friends and it was just hysterical. But there's a lot. And I'll tell you though, Dean, when he first met me, he was not exercising. I think give credit where credit is due. I mean, you know, someone has to take on the ritual themselves. I just really encouraged him in the beginning to start working out. And we used to, you know, we started working out together and I really. And he stuck with it because he used to work out. But he just went into this hiatus where life got kind of crazy and he quit and it's. And it's hard to start back up. But he, you know, he worked through it. He worked through it and boom, he does it now. One thing I want to mention because I didn't kind of close this loop, you know, I mentioned about a high profile group I had joined where there was like a bunch of famous people. And the reason that these people were in the group is they were so well known that they could not go to an anonymous meeting without being recognized. And it would be very difficult for them to just go to, you know, although a lot of them do go to 12 step groups and things like that. But, you know, it was a group where people that are so damn well known that they couldn't really go anywhere to just, you know, admit that they were fucked up and that they were having. They needed help.

What?

It made me realize that although someone may have fame and money or whatever, and a lot of people could be like, oh, they got it made, you could get to a point where your fame is globally inescapable and you can't go to any corner of the world and get any freedom. Like, people are always seeking you out, and that is a really challenging place. People have to be careful when they want to try to pursue fame. The movie. Oh boy, what's it called? Supermensch. Yeah.

Loved it.

Yeah. And I just recently met Alice Cooper. I want to go golfing with him in February. But you know the movie Supermensch? Just watch it.

I've seen it four times. I think I recommended it to you. It's amazing. Frank Kernan, I discovered. And we watched it two nights in a row. And then I've seen it two other times since then. And every single time I read it, I watch it, I learned something new. But it reminded me of you a lot. You know, I think 20 years from now, it's gonna be amazing to see what impact you've had in the world. You know, see what happened.

Yeah. It's about a guy named Shep Gordon who lives in Hawaii. And he's made a lot. He was like the agent, you know, a lot of famous people, from Alice Cooper to, you know, you name it. And there's a line in the trailer, go watch the trailer. Just type in, you know, supermen's trailer. And he says, you know, there's nothing about fame that was healthy. I mean, those that rose the highest to the top also crashed the hardest. And that's the interesting thing that, you know, as I sit, even when we do things like, you know, I love marketing that, you know, hundreds of thousands of people will actually listen to this and all kinds of various things, and you get recognized. And it's weird, you know, because we're not even famous. And, you know, I mean, you look at someone that truly is like an Oprah, you know, who I've met a couple times, and you. You know, it's like, man, I mean, people.

We talked about that, remember, like, going to. Well, even in Toronto, we were just there with, you know, 5,000 people. But all the people that had, you know, knew who we were and go walking into the infusionsoft event in Phoenix, you know, get sus. Get out of the. Getting in the elevators that started. You know, forget about that because we're kind of like, you know, we're here.

We're.

I'm in Florida, you're in Phoenix. We're recording these into the. Into the world and releasing them. But now for five years in a row, and everybody is, you know, it has a pretty broad reach, which is fascinating and wonderful.

Yeah.

You know, it always goes back to where you. You know, the way to stay centered is like, you got to remember, though, you know, you're. Don't believe your own pr. And that's. That's one of the things. It could be good, it could be bad. And, you know, but the thing is, it's more of a reason, is you. Is to keep yourself centered. I mean, ego is really useful for certain things, and it's really destructive for other things. And being able to know what's serving you and what isn't is really important anyway to wrap up this episode because I know we're probably going a little bit over. Let us know what you think of the book. I'd love you to go out and read the book that'll make the most sense based on this episode and watch some of the marketing because you'll see some really useful marketing employed. And more than anything, the ability to weave together a great story and really convey and replicate yourself is really, really powerful. Some of you that are listening to this, only a handful will be at the annual event, my Genius Network annual event that's going to be this month and we have literally officially sold it out. We even sold out a the Genius Lounge, which is the overflow room. And this will be the highest level marketing event to ever take place in the history of the world. And it will be really powerful and we'll have to do, you know, we'll share some of the, you know, the insights and some of the things that are learned and everything that are discovered on, you know, an upcoming episode. And it's. I'm just really excited about where this is going and you know, really appreciate all the support of everyone out there that's been listening to us for, you know, what, five years now and the people that run I love marketing meetup groups all over the world and all the cool stuff. Hopefully just putting this content out there for free has really helped a lot of people with their businesses and hopefully their lives. We're going to have some other episodes that Dean and I have done some together, some individually that we'll put up as either full episodes or bonus episodes that will be coming up in the next few weeks between now and then.

Yeah. And then we'll get back in November and we'll be back on track.

Cool, Cool.

So that's it.

Anything else we gotta say?

No, I think this is great. I'm looking forward to Scottsdale. It's gonna be amazing.

Yeah. And if by the way, we are, I'm not kidding, I'm not saying that like a takeaway, like scarcity thing. We sold out a $10,000 person event and you know, over 300 and well, 330 people will be coming and that's as much as we sold out the whole hotel, you know, and it high end. It's not just high price because it's marketing, it's high price because I got Tony Robbins coming and Peter Diamandis, John Paul DeJoria. Yeah, just three billionaires will be there. So if you want to see how I did the marketing, just go to geniusnetworkevents.com and you can see the site that we have. Obviously, the site is up and if anyone's interested in next year, you can put it in your calendar. It's going to be October 3rd and 4th, 2016 October 3rd and 4th and that event will sell out. So if you want to be on the waiting list for that one, then get opted in and you'll get notified and see how we do that one too. And that is it.

Awesome.

Thanks, Dean, and we will talk next time. Please share your comments, everyone, and you can subscribe to I love marketing on itunes. Take care.

Bye.