What Gender Intelligence Is and How Resilience Is Showing up in Peoples’ Lives During COVID-19 With Barbara Annis and Joe Polish - Genius Network Episode #146

You know, we were having coffee and I said, I can't do all this. I cannot manage all this. This is impossible. And all he said was this one thing. He said, you're the most extraordinary woman I've ever met.

Are you butting heads with your loved ones during lockdown? Learn how Building Gender Intelligence can help in today's episode of the Genius Network Podcast. In this episode, Barbara Annis, the founder and CEO of the Gender Intelligence Group, reveals what you can do right now to work, live and win alongside the men and women in your life. Barbara and Jo will also discuss how to have greater empathy, celebrate differences and reduce conflict so you can get out of this crisis stronger and more unified than ever. If you'd like to join world renowned entrepreneurs at the next Genius Network annual event, then apply today for your invitation to attend. If you'd like to learn more about the Genius Network annual event or to apply, go to geniusnetwork.com Barbara Annis is.

The CEO of Gender Intelligence Group gig as a World renowned expert on gender diversity and inclusive leadership, advocating the value and practice of this new type of leadership in business worldwide. Her expertise in the neuroscience of gender differences have pioneered a transformational shift in mindsets for men and women across the globe and the importance of gender unity to business and personal success. Barbara began her career as the first woman in sales at Sony and became the first woman sales manager with 14 outstanding sales achievement Awards and Sony's MVP Award. Over the past 30 years, Barbara and her 51 associates have partnered with organizations to transform cultures and leadership behavior while creating greater gender balance at all levels. Barbara is the Chair Emeritus and current member of the Women's Leadership Board at Harvard Kennedy School and was recently CO for the International alliance for Women Lifetime Achievement Award. She is the author of five books. Her first seminal book bestseller was Same Words, Different Language, A Proven Guide for Creating Gender Intelligence at Work. Now I'm sure a lot of this will be applicable at home. Another book, Results at the Top, Using Gender Intelligence to Create Breakthrough Growth, co authored with Richard Nesbitt. Gender Breakthrough Strategies for Increasing Diversity and Improving your Bottom Line, co authored with Dr. Keith Marino. And then another book, Work with Me. The eight Blind Spots between Men and Women in Business is written in conjunction with John Gray, who many of you probably know from Men are From Mars, Mars Venus, basically his work. And then the final book, Leadership and the Sexes, co authored with Michael Gurion. So Barbara, I mean, how would you describe who you are and what you do? I mean, I could read your bio and all that, but how would you describe you?

I have a huge commitment to creating a gender intelligent world and ending the power struggle that men and women have, not only in the workplace, but also at home. And my focus on this talk is to really talk about what's happening in our personal lives right now at home. That where we can actually remove any kind of power struggle and really create harmony and peace in our home and value the differences. So that's what I would say about it right now.

Okay, awesome. All right, so I've got some notes here that I wrote and some things. And so you've obviously studied neuroscience and gender differences for 30 plus years. You've written like the five books that I mentioned in the topics range from communication, relationship innovation, decision making, I mean health, a whole variety of stuff. Me and you've had many private conversations about a variety of stuff, addiction, differences between men and women, I mean, all kinds of things. And you are like the world's leading expert in this area. And so I thought it'd be useful today to talk about gender differences as it relates to what's happening in the world right now. We've obviously had some pretty dramatic shifts as a result of the pandemic. Some of the things we've talked about, and here's some notes I want to make sure I bring up, you know, the relationship between couples and families that have resulted in more stress, more conflict. For example, in China, since February, filings for divorce have increased from an average of 12 per week to 300 per week. In the US alcohol consumption has increased about 40% depending on which state. And it's probably going up on a daily basis because during any wars, any crisis, depressions, and certainly a pandemic, vices of all levels increase. People are looking to escape stress. So there's family conflict, there's abuse, from child abuse to spousal abuses at a record high worldwide. And some of this obviously has to do with the fact that we're in a massive pressure cooker sort of element that we're dealing with. And some of it has to do with the fact that we misunderstand each other, our differences and we fall into the pitfalls of blaming others and ourselves for our differences. And so that's my big setup. Barbara, sorry for the rambling here. And so before we dig real deeper into the concept, you did coin the term gender intelligence. So I'd love to have we just start with you describing what the even means.

Well, we've all heard about gender equality, right. And what I really discovered when you look at gender Equality, it really doesn't work as a mindset because gender equality equates quotas or it creates sameness or equal opportunity, equal chance, etc. And then it also equates to this whole thing about treating people the same, like the golden rule that we all have kind of espoused to, which is treat people as you would like to be treated. And I'm actually saying something the opposite. I'm saying treat people as they would like to be treated. Right. So gender intelligence is really about, do we have a profound understanding the fact that men and women are different, boys and girls are different, they're hardwiring differences that we need to understand. Back to your point, Jo, Otherwise we misinterpret those differences or tolerate them, put up with them. Right. Versus really appreciating them. And especially in this moment of stress and conflict, do we really understand that men and women de stress differently and relate to conflict or react to conflict differently? And how can we understand that and actually dance in a much more of a harmony way together?

Perfect lead in. Because that was actually one of my questions of like, how do we dance together? So the question I actually have for you is, based on your extensive research, what are some of the differences you can share with us as it relates to stress, conflict and resilience?

Okay, great. So I just want to say something I just heard literally yesterday. It's a group of 148 psychologists all over the world, and they're saying that they have more business today, working 12 hours a day, seven days a week, of course, virtually in solving conflict at home in many different aspects. So there's a huge divide here. Fundamentally, men and women tend to distress differently. So do we understand that the challenge is, for example, the prefrontal cortex in women is more connected and wired, and that's the consequential thinking of the brain. It also controls impulsive behavior. So it's more wired in women. So women see and worry more about the consequences of certain things. And that can be hugely challenging because when women worry more and articulate that worry, the cortisol level goes up, right? So women tend to vent and worry more and men tend to take time out to de stress because men need to rebuild their testosterone, right? And women need to rebuild their oxytocin through sharing and venting and so on. But the pitfall is that you can actually increase your stress levels.

So in terms of resilience, what are the differences?

So men tend to get real. Well, we can see it here in the strategic network, right? We get real strategic, right? What are we going to do about it? What are the Ackermans, how can we apply it in the mental models, etc. And of course I'm on different boards and I'm on boards as the women's leadership board at Howard Kennedy school, which is 162 women, right? Very, very senior, accomplished women and other networks. And I'm on these webinars or whatever we call them. And you wouldn't believe the gender difference that I see in women getting together with women talking about COVID 19 and men getting together with men talking about COVID 19. And we really need to. And Joe and I, we talked about having more women indigenous network. We really need to have that gender blended because here's what's happening with women. So I was on one last week. I won't mention which name, but you would know these women, they're very, very influential women. And they started off like this. I was on a webinar. This is one of the women, very famous woman. She said, I was on a webinar with the doctors in Italy, right? And I got off the call and I cried for two hours, right? I cried for two hours. So she got into her awfulizing rumination part of the brain where her cortisol level went through the roof. And I said to her, did that serve you? Did that help you at all? And she said, no, actually I got, I got worse, I got more depressed, I got more upset, said so what is it that we can do with what is being done now where we can reframe in a place where we can reframe it, where we can influence things and where we cannot influence things. Sometimes being on a two hour webinar call like that and then absorbing all of that stuff and then cry for two hours is not going to serve us. Same day in the afternoon I was on a call webinar with mostly men, about 85% men. And there was a lot of strategizing, et cetera. And of course women entrepreneurs do that too. But imagine if we did the combination of both and if women understood that there's no cheese down that tunnel for us to over worry, right? But also for men to really understand that women want to be heard and understood, right? They really want to be heard from men. And it's not like, don't worry about it, just you know, let it go. But you know, how can you really do that? Dance together in congruence, right? So we honor those differences.

What is that movie? There's no crying in Baseball oh, yes, Tom Hanks. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot of individuals right now that are experiencing some of the greatest stress and grief and confusion and complexity of their entire lives. There's many business owners that men and women deep inside feel like they're just completely and utterly lost and it's overwhelming. And then they need to show up to their clients, their team with a leadership role, and sometimes they don't even know what to do. And of course, I know this because of all the addiction related stuff. I've been on quite a few virtual recovery meetings and whatnot and talking to individuals in terms of grieving or releasing stress. Any recommendations or suggestions not just for yourself, but your partners, your children, for the men, for their wives or their daughters, and for women with their boys and their husbands and their male and female friends. Any recommendations for processing grief and stress that you could speak to?

Absolutely. So, as you know, and some of you know that I'm actually going through opioid withdrawals right now as we speak. And that has been an unbelievably, intensely difficult ride, Right?

Yeah. And that was medically prescribed opiates. And you talked about that for the first time.

Medically prescribed. And you know, what they wanted to do for five years is to give me more and more and more, you know, to get rid of the pain. And that was that. That's what they didn't know. What they didn't know, right? So they were the best of intentions, right? Which just made me worse and worse and worse. So I actually elected wrong timing. Covid19 doing it during that time was a crazy time to do it because I ended up in emergency a couple of times, right? But I did it and I'm through the worst of it. But to answer your question, what's important more than anything right now is empathy, right? And how can we really have that empathy for one another? What I see in couples, in relationships, in the power struggle is that women really strive for being heard and understood, right? And being validated. Right? And men strive for being acknowledged for the struggle that they go through, right? So how can we actually validate and acknowledge each other? Right. I heard at the last Genius Network there was somebody in the chat room who said, I can't stand being at home with my. I can't wait, this is over so I can get back to work because it's driving me crazy. My family's driving me crazy. Well, how can we reflect that in a way to take this as an opportunity for us to truly connect with one another, that we Take that precious time, whether we have children or not, but just extended family and friends and create that high touch environment. So empathy, I would say, is really key here. And being able to really listen generously to one another during these times, I think is super important.

Yeah, great. And I'll tell you some of the things that helped me for really just breaking the ants in my brain, the automatic negative thoughts, which is. First heard that from my buddy Daniel. Amen. I will do things from meditation to Wim Hof breathing to cold showers, which I did this morning. I did a long cold shower. I hate it. But when I'm done, it feels kind of invigorating and definitely puts me into a different state. Push ups, burpees, sit ups, stretching, yoga, drinking water, literally just breathing, getting outside. And I'll tell you, if you are in a stressful state where you just can't wait to go back to work, there's this great Eckhart Tolle line that I've always liked, which is, here's a spiritual practice for you. Don't take your thoughts so seriously, or don't take your thoughts seriously. And a lot of times when if I just need to listen to something because I'm in a stressed state, what I really like is Michael Singer, who wrote the Untethered Soul and the Surrender Experiment. He has a lecture series that my friend Dr. Rebecca Miller suggested listening to is actually quite good. And then Eckhart Tolle. I like Eckhart Tolle's stuff. I mean, I think he's good. Even if he's a total freak, which he's really not. I think he's a cool dude. So you and I have discussed this before, that behind a breakdown there is a breakthrough. And one of the main things that I learned from you, which I found quite profound, was that men and women have breakthroughs through a different lens or a different experience. And I'd love if you could share that with everyone.

I mean, this is research. Over a million men and women around the world, and we saw this norm that happens around breakthroughs, that women have breakthroughs through validation. So if you have daughters, validate them, acknowledge them, give them feedback, tell them how strong they are, how great they are, make sure it's authentic, right? So women and girls have breakthroughs through validation, you know, And I can just remember back when I was at Sony and I was a single mother and I had three children, you know, and I was in a turmoil. And this mentor of mine, his name is Jim Ward, you know, we're having coffee and I said, I can't do all this. I cannot manage all this. This is impossible. And all he said was this one thing. He said, you're the most extraordinary woman I've ever met. And that was it. And I went, whoa, right? This is a man I looked up to. And I was just. I never forgot it. You know, I never forgot it. That kind of anchored me, right? Because women can be really hard on. Well, women can be hard on women, but we're very hard on ourselves. So we have that inside talk. We're not good enough or we need to do more, all of that stuff. So that validation is a huge breakthrough for women and for girls, just so you know. And also, men have breakthroughs through struggle, right? And they need to be acknowledged for that struggle. You know, the debate, the going back and forth. What about this? What about that? You know, all of that stuff, which is super important for boys. You know, you do it through sports, for example. And I don't know if you know, but we've seen neuroscientists take brain scans of both men and women and take them through competitive games versus collaborative games. And when you do competitive games, it accesses the risk and reward centers of the male brain, so they get super excited and thrilled about it, and it access more of the challenging, stressful centers of the female brain around the competition. So again, the bottom line of this is, think about that. You know, how can you authentically validate women? Make sure it's real, don't fake it, because we can read it in a nanosecond. Right. When it's not real. Right. And what you can truly authentically validate for them and then watch what happens. It's incredible, Right. And vice versa for the men. You know, Joe, I mean, look at you and what you've been through that. And I know that, you know, I've acknowledged you many times, but that acknowledgement makes a difference for you. Right? That the journey that you've gone through. Right.

So awesome. Thank you so much. I want to read a couple of the comments, too. Dino and Julie wrote, the movie's A League of Their Own. Julie wrote, yes, women often just want to be heard, not helped. And then, of course, the quote Gina put behind the breakdown is a breakthrough. Really awesome. So your work has consistently brought the message that it's about understanding the strengths and differences and valuing the authentic strengths men and women have, which you've kind of spoke to. But could you tell us more about that?

Yeah. So what's happened historically, and we know this in Business, Right. It's been more of a masculine paradigm in business. Right. But when we say things like male dominated, it lands its blame. Right. And I really think we need to get out of the blame game and really acknowledge one another for the strengths that we bring. Right. So I'm all about that. I'm all about being the stand for the strength that men and women bring to the workplace and at home.

In your TED Talk, you declare that your vision is to create a world where men and women work and win together. So today, you know, there's an even, you know, obviously greater challenge. What can men and women do, starting right now, to make the world of gender relations a better place? Because they're certainly in an environment where they're at that they've never been in most people ever before. And maybe, you know, it's a whole new world. So what would be your recommendations?

Number one, stand in each other's shoes. Like literally stand in each other's shoes and listen. Right. You know, again, versus tolerating the differences and appreciating that. And sometimes that's hard to do because we are on so much stress and it's harder to have that place. So that's one thing that I would say. And the other things, you know, gender intelligence is about understanding strength and differences. But do we know what they are? You know, learn what those are? There's lots of reading beyond that I've done. But you can go on our website. You can grab articles, videos, you name it. It's all there for free. But begin to learn more, and I think you'll have greater insights. I often say couples, when they're together, they end up. He ends up in more of a when the beginning. For a long time, he ends up more in a okay, yes, dear syndrome. I call it yes, dear. Okay, dear, Whatever, dear. Like that kind of quit and stay kind of mode, Right. And she ends up in more of a frustration mode where she's super busy wanting to take on more, do more. Right. Well, how can we shift that? Right. And really appreciate each other. So I would say if anything you leave here is, we've planted a couple of seeds here, but learn more about what it really is, and I think it will really create a huge shift for you in your relationships.

Paul Culligan, what's the best way for a guy to learn to be more empathetic?

That's a great one. Well, first of all, sorry, Paul, but it's hard for men to read women's facial expressions. Right? So if you ask her how Are you?

Yes, it is.

Yes. You got it. And if you ask your daughters, paul, how are you doing? And they say, fine, Right. We assume as women that you understand what kind of fine we mean. Right. And it may be like, I feel rotten. Right? So. And you, you'll say, okay, great, because you can't read those facial expressions. So it's important to ask more questions and really stand in each other's shoes. Empathy is about listening. It's all about generously listening.

Right.

What I heard you say, right. So that would be the one thing that I would be really be interested versus being interesting. Right. Is to have that kind of inquisitive spirit.

Barbara, I have a couple clients that are releasing products next week, and they're husband and wife companies, and they are experiencing a lot of stress right now, and they are very much experiencing exactly what you said, where every time she watches the news or an update on what's happening and how everything is going, it shuts her down. And when he watches it, he wants to, like, fix and work and fight and struggle. And because they are now in an office and home alone, it's creating a new level of stress. But at 30 years in business, obviously they know what they're doing and they're doing well overall. Is there anything you would suggest in how they can both bring to light in this new product that they're offering for health and wellness? Is there anything that you would recommend for them in how they can both bring something positive to the table about how they view the release of this product during this time?

Great question. I'd love to spend more time with you on that. So please reach out to me and we can dig deeper because there's a lot going on there. But let me just give it to you right now, high level. So first of all, there's equal learning for both men and women in this situation and many other situations. So he has a propensity for action, and she has propensity for understanding, and she's seeking that. But the challenge is that they don't know that there's a cost associated to both approaches. Right? So for her, so for me, I'm like, that I would worry, right, Kathy? And I know I've practiced some tools or some muscles that I've exercised going, okay, great. So is this going to be worthwhile for me to spend any more minutes worrying about this? Like, is there any cheese down that tunnel? And I look and I go, no, there isn't. And I literally will pause and stop and say, okay, all right, reframe Right. So that would be a very good. And I'd love to spend some time and you can pass that on to them to spend some time around. How do you reframe that way? Because it's something we get conditions to doing, right. And for Sam and for him, moving to action invalidates her feelings. Do you see what I mean? So it escalates, right? He's going action, action, action to go. Wait a minute, wait a minute. Understand me, hear me right? And that both get escalated. So for him, there's also some understanding in really spending that five minutes hearing it out. Right. So yeah, I would love to spend some time with you on that one.

In a crisis like this, what do you think about the differences in women's and men's superpowers? Like how they can do great things and also in their kryptonite, like what are the things that can kind of destroy them?

Well, interesting you should say that. I don't know if you've seen we posted, if you go on my LinkedIn, I posted some articles around what's happening in countries where women are either prime minister or presidents and how they're reacting to and it's actually reducing the amount of deaths. So women's superpower, right? Are you with me? Is that the prefrontal cortex more connected, they have more long term. So they can see the consequential and they become very risk wise, right? And men become more risk takers, right? And right now what we need is risk wise. That is the superpower we need right now. And of course the empathy because now this expands to family, this expands to children, this expands to our future. So women become the mama bears in this situation and become super decisive around. Nope, we're shutting everything down. We're doing it. So if you read that CNN excerpt or the Forbes magazine around that is pretty interesting around that. And the kryptonite really for me is really to understand each other. And that's why I offer what we have online for you and we can send you some links. But that, oh my God, the old quote. Mother Teresa says understanding means there's nothing to forgive. This is our moment to really raise the bar and really truly understand each other in a whole new way than we ever have been. My question is actually how can women empathize with men nowadays in this culture of MeToo movement and men having to be so, so cautious around what they say and how they treat women, how can women actually empathize with men in that situation? Thank you for that question. It's one of the most important questions today, because we ended up blaming men for breathing. Literally. Right. And we painted men in all one brush, like all men of this. And there are. And I've spoken to this. I actually did a TED Talk on this. And they took it off because they didn't want to show it. And what I said was that literally, if you look at it, it's probably 1 to 2% of men and a few women who do stupid things. Most men are really good people with the best of intention. Right? Well, this was TED Talk hr and they didn't want that conversation in there because they were right in the middle of, we got to understand women. We got to listen to women. We got to heal it over. And I said all that, you know, said it's super important for women who have been somehow harmed. You know, I've had my own stories or experiences, but to create a clean slate and to be heard, Right. But to complete the past, right. Not relive the past. Right. Complete it and realign ourselves with men, to raise our standards, really show how men and women truly can work together and win together and live together. And that's what I talk about in my TED Talk around that. That actually got published, so you can see that online. Right. Great question. And we really need to create a massive paradigm shift where we get out of the blame game and really honor each other. Beautiful. Thanks so much. I just want to repeat what you said. We need to complete the past and not repeat it. That was amazing. Thanks so much. Thank you.

Thank you. So, Barbara.

Yeah.

I mean, I could talk to you all day because you're such a fountain of wisdom and knowledge and guidance. Well, obviously, from the things we posted here where people can read and follow up. Is there anything that I didn't ask you, anything you'd like to share before we move on that you think would be most useful for people to understand or anything of yours that you would recommend they read or watch? Aside from what you've already mentioned, that would be most helpful for everyone.

Well, I think there's two things. One is when you go back to whoever you're living with or relating to in your life after this, look at them in a whole new way. Look at them like you don't know them, ask questions, stand in their shoes, and listen generously, and you'll find there might be some new gifts that you see. And again, learn about these differences. Right. And let's move out of the blame game. I mean, I don't know if you know this, but the divorce rate. Not only China, but all the world is happening. My brother, yesterday, by the way, I had a conversation with him about last week, about his wife and what was going on. And he's a rheumatologist. I'm Danish, from Denmark. So he's in Copenhagen, his wife, and they've been married 45 years. And this was like last week and yesterday, Yesterday they got remarried. Now get this. This is Copenhagen. It's all shut down. COVID 19, right. They can't go anywhere. They found a friend of mine who's a minister who remarried them in their cottage garden, right. Yesterday afternoon at 2 o', clock, where they renewed their vows. So I'm not inviting you all to get remarried, but if we could really renew our relationships and complete whatever is in the past. But they had a lot of past history and they reinvented themselves 45 years later.

What a lot of people may not know is that you work with some of the world's leaders. I mean, in government and entertainment, in education and some of the top CEOs and business leaders, I mean, they come to you to figure out how to deal with the conflict in all areas. And so household names are people that reach out to you to figure out how to do things. And so your work is incredibly influential in the world and you never brag about it. And so I just want people to understand that there's so much good that you're putting out there. Darryl wrote very generous, Barbara. Thank you, Ravi. Your quote, conflict is the biggest expense that we need to get out of Orion, wrote Barbara. Thank you for your wisdom. Love, love, love, Babs. Thank you, Barbara. And then, yeah, one more from Ravi. Barbara, that was brilliant. So profound and real. Thank you for sharing your wisdoms.

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