VA Productivity Dropped? Don’t Start With Time Tracking!

So my first reaction to this was use time tracking. That's a simple solution. If I don't feel like they're productive or they're not working, then make them track their time and make them prove that they're working. You can use time proof or hubstaff or actually years ago we used rescue time, which I don't even think exists anymore. But that was my first reaction, was track the time. Did it work? No, it didn't work. Why? Well, there's a bunch of reasons why. Welcome to the Secret Sauce of Outsourcing podcast that's dedicated to making you better at outsourcing Philippines. This is episode 466 explaining when VA productivity declines. Look, this is a real problem. It may or may not have happened to you. It has happened to me. It's happened to me multiple times. Occasionally I get emails from people saying, oh my VA productivity has declined. What do we do? I want to explain the situation today so this can be amazing. It can be so dang good. I am 20 years into this of having a team in the Philippines where who works for me. I don't have people in the US who work for me. I run an eight figure business. It's completely reasonable to have people in the Philippines doing almost everything for you and your business. Hire someone. If you're concerned about their productivity declining as your problem, you first need to hire someone and see what happens because most of the time it works really well. And then, yep, there's some management stuff that you can do that will help maintain productivity. Let's get into that. All right, so here's the situation. You just went through onlinejobs. Ph, you posted your job, you interviewed, you ended up finding someone amazing. You've hired them, you've been working with them for three weeks. It has been so great. They've gone above and beyond, they've exceeded your expectations. And then one day you notice, well, they didn't do as much today, but okay, fine. And the next day you notice, well, they kind of didn't do as much today, but they were so good for those three weeks. Maybe they're just having bad days. You're four, five, six weeks in and you've noticed this just isn't right. Like they're not right. They're not doing what I thought they would. They're not doing what I know they're capable of because I saw it for the first three weeks. And you're getting frustrated, they're starting to make mistakes, you're correcting them, they are being careless or Lazy. They're not getting it done right. They're not doing as much. They're making simple grammar mistakes and you feel like they're just not putting in the time or the effort that they should be. And maybe you feel like they have gotten another job and they're giving you 50% of their effort and that other job, 50% of their effort. And this just isn't what you had hoped it would be. So now here's my experience in this situation because I've had this happen to me multiple times. I mean, I have like 55 people that work for me in the Philippines. I've had this happen. If you work with people in the Philippines, if you work with more than one, you're probably going to have this happen to you at some point. So when this happened to me, I felt like they had another job. Like they were double dipping, which maybe they were double dipping. You probably feel like they don't care, like they don't care about your job, which is probably not the case. I've come to realize this. I felt like that at the time, like, oh, you just don't care when that's really not the case. And then I really put off confronting them because I didn't have any evidence. And you probably feel similar. Well, like they're just not quite as productive as they were. But I don't really have like number evidence of that. I don't really have like concrete evidence to point stuff out here. So what do I do? I don't want to confront them because I don't. I just don't have proof. At least nothing concrete. All I have is just a feeling that things aren't right. So this is where I was. And let me tell you what I did and what has worked and what hasn't worked. So my very first reaction to this was, well, if this is how things are going to be, then we'll just use time tracking. Like if I feel like you're not putting in the time, then I'll just make you prove that you are or aren't by tracking time. I mean, that's pretty simple. If you're tracking your time and you track 40 hours a week, then you put in 40 hours a week. If you track 35, then you only put in 35. And there's a lot of different time trackers. This is why we have one at onlinejobs Ph called Timeproof. And it's available in your account. It's available even if you're on a free subscription. You can still use it or you can use like, hubstaff or Time Doctor or back in the day, what we used originally was rescue time. Did it work? No, it didn't work. Which, that's the real. That's the real rub here is did it work? No, it didn't work at all. Did it improve things? No, it didn't improve things, actually. It just kind of made it work. And here's what I found. So when you use a time tracker, it creates an adversarial relationship between you and them. And Filipinos do not work well on. In an adversarial relationship, they work well on trust. It says, I don't trust you, and if you want to work for me, I don't care if you think that I trust you or not. Which. What I have come to learn over the years is this is just not a good way to work with someone in the Philippines. At least not if you want them to be loyal with you. Not if you want them to go above and beyond, not if you want them to care. Because what this does in the relationship, if you don't trust them, then they don't trust you. And then they start to try and take shortcuts in as many places as they can. And that's where that distrust comes in. From that time tracking, they start to prioritize quantity over quality. While they're prioritizing quantity over quality, you're saying to them, well, I really just care about quantity. I only care about the number of hours you worked. And so. And yeah, I'm going to do lip service to know I really care about the quality. But the reality is you're saying to them by your actions that you care about the quantity. And so then what do they do? Well, they find ways to cheat the system. They get an automatic clicker that moves their mouse automatically for them while they're sleeping or whatever. And then it looks like they're working or the time trackers tracking time. And unless you want. If you want to catch them, you have to go through and, like, look at every single screenshot. It's the worst. It's the worst. And actually, I tried this multiple times before I realized, like, this is dumb. And what I did find, one of the things that I did learn in doing this, aside from what I've already said about trust and that nobody's going to ever track 40 hours a week. If they're required. If they're required to work 40 hours, they're going to. They're gonna track 32 at a maximum, and that's them Working full time, like, it's just unreasonable to track more time than that. But here's the thing. In all of it was, I knew I had good people. I knew they were capable and talented. I knew they were smart because I had seen it before. I had seen them do the work, but what I was doing wasn't working to motivate them. And, yeah, time trackers don't really ever motivate people the way that you think it does. But something just wasn't right, and I had to figure that out. So here was my next solution. So I remember having this conversation with someone. Wow. She's probably been with me for like, 17 years now. And I remember her productivity was low. And I had tried the time tracker and it didn't help. And it probably just. I mean, I know it just made things worse, but since I already tried it and I had already tried to, like, come up with a reasonable way around it, like, oh, I'm just tracking so we can see where we're spending our time, where we're allocating, whatever, blah, blah, it didn't work right. And so I decided, you know what? I just need to have a frank conversation. I need to let them know the situation and know what's going on. I was scared to do this. I didn't want to blame them. I didn't want to accuse them. I didn't. Like I said, I didn't have full proof. But what I did do was I thought through this and was like, look, I don't. I don't see another way around this. I don't see. I don't see this improving unless I wrote this, this kind of long email just explaining the whole situation. Hey, when you first started working, you were amazing, and I was super thrilled, and you were productive and you were on it, and things were good. And then things started to decline. And I don't know what caused it. This is all what I'm reading. But I assume that I've done something wrong. Like I've put you in a hard situation. I've given you something that you don't like. I've. I've asked you to do something you don't know how to do or that's really difficult, or I think there's something causing you to not work. And I'm not like, firing you here. I'm not interested in letting you go, but I am interested in solving this problem. And so can you give me your thoughts? Like, what's going on? Why do I feel like your productivity is down? Why do I Feel like you're only putting in half the time that you should be. So did this solve the problem? Yes, it did. And alright, so over the years I've done this quite a few times actually. In fact, I would say that probably more than half of my people at some point have had a situation like this where their productivity has gone down, where I just feel like, look, things aren't working well and I don't know why. And so I send this email, I send something like it and I give it. I always tell them how I feel it. I feel like something's not right. And has it solved the problem every single time? Well, I mean, I'm tempted to say yes because they all still work for me today. Maybe not all of them, right? Some people, I've probably gone through this multiple times. I let them go eventually because just. But I mean the specific times I can think of, yeah, it has definitely changed the productivity and there's been a number of different outcomes and so let me kind of talk through some of those outcomes. So with, I remember this first time with this girl who's now been with me for like 17 years, who now she is managing multiple teams for us. Her response back was, you're right, sir, I'm so sorry. I got into some financial trouble and I took on another job and I let my commitment to you slip and I was like, wow. She just like fully opened up and laid it out and she took responsibility and she was like, yeah, I needed more money and I took on another job. And so my response to that was, okay, well let's see what we can do to fix this. What's your financial situation? Can we work through this and make this work out? And we did. And it hasn't always been roses with her, but man, we have such a great relationship because of that conversation. So another time when I had noticed someone's productivity declined, I actually got an email from them intended towards another boss. That was an awkward one for them, not necessarily for me because at this time I had proof, right? And so I responded and said, hey, I see that you have another job and I expect you to work full time for me. And I don't know exactly what's going on, but what do we do here? You know, like what, what do you think I should do as the boss? What should I do in this situation that I've, I've caught you double dipping, I've caught you kind of cheating the system. What should I do? And they ended up like fully making 180 degree turn, like okay, I'm so sorry. You're right. I cheated and I'm quitting my other job and I'm going to work for you. Now. In your situation, it could be different where they might be like, well, just going to ghost you because I actually prefer this other boss more. That could be the situation. That could, could be what happens right for me. I'm just telling you what happened. They came and worked for me and they still work for me and it's been great. So then I'm just going to read you this other one because this had someone on my team that was like, wow, your productivity is just low. And I'm not, I'm not like, I'm not happy. And so this is, this is the actual email that I sent to them and I'm going to read it. It's going to be repetitive, sort of towards what I've said before. But I just want you to see what I actually said to them. So here I'm going to read. Hey. And I addressed them. I really like your work. I really like having you on my team. You've done some amazing stuff for us lately. Well, for a while now I felt like you're not putting in the time you should be putting in. Your work quality has declined. You're not as productive as you were. Your work quality, it just isn't there. You make simple mistakes that aren't because you didn't know what to do. They were just lazy mistakes. I don't know if you have another job and if you're putting your effort there. I don't know if you're bored. I don't know if I've done something wrong. I don't know if you expect me to make the work good and you to just get it done. But what I know is I'm frustrated and I don't like feeling this way and I want this to work out with you. So you have a long term job with us. I really want you to continue working with us. But the way it's going right now just isn't working. So can you be honest with me? Are you bored with your work? Do you dislike your job? Do you have another job and are putting your effort there? Do you want to continue working for me? Have I done something? Have I put you in a difficult situation? What do we need to do to get your productivity back on track? What do we need to do to get the quality up so I'm not frustrated when I get work back from you? So in this particular situation, I got an email back and they said they told me their life story. Really? Like, here's why I am struggling. Here's what's going on. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. I'm sick. Whatever. Another time I had someone tell me a really good programmer who's doing so stinking well for us right now. Sir, I'm so sorry. I have a problem with my eyes, so I can't stare at my computer screen for hours at a time. He's a programmer, right? Like, he has to look at a computer screen. And so I've been working with the doctor and I'm so sorry. And I'm trying to get this worked out. And I was able to be like, okay, well, yeah, let's get this worked out. Like, what do you need? What do you need help with? He was like, I need time. Okay, well then I'm going to give you time. I'm going to give you time away from the computer. And I think it was like two months away. And then he got better. He worked it out. It didn't get better overnight. It maybe took him another year or two, I don't remember. But I know he started increasing his productivity and today he is again running multiple teams of our developers at online jobs. I've had similar situations to that where like, oh, my aunt is died and it's been really hard. I have this and this and this problem, or I don't have a nanny for my kids and affecting me and I have to take care of my kids. Like all these. I've heard all the excuses, right? And I would say they're legit. Like, this is real. When my son was serving as a missionary in the Philippines, I would ask him things and he was like, probably real. That's a real situation. That's. Yep, they're probably being honest with you. So now that I've talked through, like what I have experienced and what I've done to help and has this worked? Yes, yes, it has worked. It worked almost every time. So now let me give you some things to consider in this. In this situation where productivity has gone down, that maybe you're thinking the opposite. So, number one, they want this job. Now, there are some situations where maybe they don't, but those situations are few and far between. It is not easy to find a job in the Philippines. It's not easy to find a remote job working for a foreign employer. Especially for someone who's good, who pays reasonably, who treats them well. It's not easy. And for them to lose this job is really like a nightmare in this situation, it is unlikely that they don't want the job or don't care about the job. Number two, they're probably working a lot. Most Filipinos. And when I brought this up recently with someone on, I was a guest on a podcast on a Filipino podcast, I said, I recognize that most of you are working 60 hours a week. And he shook his head. And I was like, yeah. He was like, well, I am. And more. He was like, I'm working more than that. I work 70 or 80 hours a week. And so I recognize, and you should recognize that most Filipinos, they're not working 25 hours a week and like just going a lazing on a beach. That's just not how life works in the Philippines. If they're working 40 hours a week for you, they probably, there's a good chance, unless you're paying them really well, that they have another part time job or another gig or something else on the side. Oh, that's the culture of the Philippines. Now you can treat people well and they don't have to do that. You can pay them well and they don't have to do that. And you can encourage them to not do that. And especially if they trust you. I mean, I would say that 2/3 of my people only have one job just with me working 40 hours a week and their lives are better because of it. Now, maybe not two thirds, maybe three fourths, maybe only half, I don't know. Right. It's really hard to know. But just recognize that life in the Philippines is hard and they're working a lot. Next, recognize, and this is something that took me a long time to learn was poor work is often a cultural misunderstanding. So here's what I figured out, that in the Philippines, it is the boss's job to make sure the work is done right or done well. Well, that's the opposite of what it, of what it is here in the US and so we often assume that, oh, there's, it's their job to do the quality and it's my job to push quantity. Well, when you push quantity and they are already, their culture is already that quality is your responsibility. So if they write something and they don't proofread it three times, they proofread it twice and still left a grammatical error. Well, that's your problem. That's not their problem culturally. Right. And if you're pushing quantity on them, no, I need four of these written per day. Then you're just reinforcing their quantity over quality culture. Now There are ways around this and you can change this. That's for another time. Right, but the point is, this is a cultural misunderstanding where you assume that it's their job to do the work. Right. And they assume it's your job to verify the quality and it's your job to catch them when the reality is you think it's their job and you want them to do it and they think it's your job and they want you to do it. So you have to come to an agreement here on whose job it is. And you can do, you can make it theirs by giving them responsibility, giving them a title, giving, Making them understand that you want work to come back to you flawless and perfect. You can make sure their personality type is correct. Where, like, a sales job doesn't require attention to detail. Like a data entry job requires attention to detail. And so a sales job requires a dominant, A pusher or whatever, whatever that personality type is. Where, like a data entry person requires attention to detail and not someone who's dominant and pushing. Right. A dominant pusher wants to do more. Quality is like, less important to them. Well, if quality is really important to you, then that personality type matters. Now, once they understand this situation, once they understand, oh, he's actually okay if it really does take me all day to get two of these done instead of four, if that's what it takes to get these done right, then, yeah, he's okay with that. Oh, okay, well, now I get it. I'm not getting fired if I only do two. I don't have to do four, but four requires quality to suffer. And so if you can help them understand that, that no, you're not going to fire them and that you really just want the quality to be there and you want them to put in their time, once they understand that, then you're likely to see results. Okay, next situation that I want you to understand is they must trust you. So they want the job. They're probably not being lazy if they're putting in the time, but if they don't trust you in all of this, they will rationalize all kinds of things in their work. Oh, she doesn't care anyway. Oh, they're rich, so it doesn't really matter. He's probably going to fire me anyway, so I'm just going to do less. They're going to yell at me no matter what I do, so I can't really fix the problem. Problem. So it's not possible, so I'm just gonna do it anyway. And all of these things are thought processes that are going through their head, that if you heard these thought processes, you'd be like, oh, that's not right at all. And I know because I've gotten these emails back from them where they're like, well, I thought you were. And I think. And I'm like, whoa, that's not at all where I am. That's not at all what I was thinking. That. That's not at all where I'm going with this. And so if you can help them to trust you, it'll open up a whole world of possibilities. And so in getting them to trust you, don't yell, be reasonable, don't blame. Take the blame yourself. Show them that you care about them and their family and their situation. Recognize. Recognize their situation. Provide training. All of these things will go a long way toward them trusting you and them being willing to be like, okay, if I only get one and a half of these done today instead of the four that he wants, but they're really well done. They might not fire me. When you're like, oh, if that's what it takes, then okay, fine, sure. So when you approach them with these things, if you take the approach of this is probably my fault, not yours, I see that there's a problem. I see that you are. Your productivity has declined. Maybe you have another job, maybe not. Maybe I've done something. If you take that approach of maybe I've done something, what, you're much more likely to turn this person into a rock star. Working for a bad boss generally isn't worth it. That's the value system in the Philippines where, like, they. They pretend that money is the most important thing, but the reality is that working for a bad boss just isn't worth the money. They'll disappear. They'll do poor quality until they get fired because they want to get fired because they don't like working for you. Okay, next situation that you should understand is they are scared if something's wrong. And they're scared, well, they're unlikely to start this conversation with you. So this conversation is on you to start. If you can start the conversation, they're probably likely to have the conversation as long as they trust you or they feel like it's a safe space. But it's on you to start the conversation. It's on you to be honest with them because they feel like they can't start that conversation. They can't tell you something's wrong. They feel like it's inappropriate to approach their boss with like, hey, I don't understand Your training here. I don't understand what you're asking for me to do, and that's why I'm not doing anything. You have to start the conversation because they're scared too. Next situation is they want feedback so productivity can decline even when nothing bad is happening. Like, maybe they just got bored, maybe they are just in a slump. And the reality is that just you checking on them, just you sending this email might be like, hey, thank you. You care about my work and my job, where you're like, oh, I don't want them to think I don't care. And if I send this, then maybe they think I don't care. But this shows them that you do care, that you care about them, that you care about the relationship, that you care about their job. And it might just be like a kick out of a situation, out of a slump, or out of getting fixated on something small. It might just be exactly what they need to move on or to make you aware of a problem that you can help them move on where they couldn't otherwise. So feedback is a really important part of this work cycle and this work relationship with them. Last thing, an online job is a dream job. And I've already mentioned this, but look, it's not the case for everybody. That's a dream job. But for most people in the Philippines, it is. And when they get that job and it's for someone who cares about them or treats them well, as long as it's within their cultural framework of, like, what they're allowed to do and most people are good, yes, there's some bad apples in there. Usually those bad apples are at the higher end of the, of the pay scale, which is surprising. You think, oh, if I pay more, I'm going to get better? No, actually it's the people who have figured out how to get a job for a foreign boss, it's the people who have figured out exactly how to say the right things to someone to get them to hire them at the upper end of the pay scale. Because you're just like, oh, I don't really care, I just want to pay more. I don't want to do the work. I just want to pay. When you get the bad apples generally, right? Not always, but that's generally it. But most people, look, this is their. They have a hard time getting a job in the first place. They have a hard. If they get fired, they don't have another job and they just want to do honest work for honest pay. Usually there's some situation causing this work. If you approach it, it's likely that you'll find the solution and you'll be like, wow, that was so easy. I can't believe I waited four weeks to say something and really this was something that I had to solve for them anyway, so I hope this is helpful to you. I actually have a couple notes here as I finish don't overpay. Overpaying causes a bad situation. Don't underpay. Underpaying is unethical and I know I'm asking you to like a fine line even though it's not that fine of a line. And at onlinejobs ph salary we have a whole guide on paying and then recognize they want to be proud of their work. They want to be part of something good. They don't want to just be a data entry monkey. They want to contribute. They want to be. They want to be important. They want to feel important. Something is if productivity is down, there's almost always a reason and you can find that reason and usually you can solve it.