Episode 72: COVID19 + Interview With Todd Herman On Performance in Business in Trying Times

Hey, everyone, this is Julie. Hope you're doing amazing today. I am doing something a little bit different. I actually went live the other day with Todd Herman. Some of you may know Todd Herman. He is the founder and owner of the 90 day year program. He is a performance coach and he helps athletes and leaders and CEOs optimize their performance to get more done, be more, and make a bigger impact. And so I actually interviewed him the other what is happening in our current climate with business and the coronavirus. And so I wanted to, you know, sort of pick his brain about what he's seeing and what he's encouraging people to do in this time. And also he actually was diagnosed with the coronavirus. So I'm gonna link up this interview right now. You can hear it if you didn't see it live. Here it is for you. So thanks so much.

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I think you were the first person that I, like, knew of that got it.

Yeah. Oh, well, lucky me.

Lucky you.

I know. So, yeah, I was like, probably somewhere in the patient 100 and less here in the New York City area, which has now become like this kind of epicenter. It's pretty, pretty eerie to be living in the kind of feels like. Feels like the Will Smith movie. I am legend right now with how desolate the streets are. But, yeah, so I, I think I got it maybe when I went in to get surgery because I have a. I ruptured my Achilles tendon and doing American Ninja Warrior game with my oldest daughter who really wants to make it on the show. And the warped wall beat me. So I had to go in for surgery. And most likely I think I probably got it when I was in the hospital at the end of February. Didn't show up though, until exactly two weeks ago. And so, yeah, I mean, to about day 15 on it now. But it started off for me was a really bad. What felt like a flu in the. In the beginning. And then I actually went into the hospital on the first day because I was so sick, actually passed out in the actual waiting room waiting. Yeah, it was, I was, I was in bad sort, bad sorts with it. But not everyone gets the flu side of it, though. A lot of people. It's, it's just strange how it kind of everyone gets it. Some, some affects them differently.

Yeah.

After what, two days, the flu thing went away and then the, the chest and breathlessness came into it. So I've been, I've been okay. I'm not one of those people who needed to go to the, the hospital for the breathing side, but it sure as heck does linger around and definitely can make you tired and stuff. But, you know, this is a good example of just the importance of all of us taking care of our body so that when we do get something like this, we can actually fight it, you know, with a healthy.

Yeah, because, I mean, I was, I was going to say you are, you're, you're not like the epitome of not healthy. You're like the epitome of healthy. So it took you out. And this is what we've been hearing is that lots of people who are really, really healthy and take care of themselves still are getting knocked down.

Yeah, yeah. But then even, you know, my wife, you know, because everyone in the family got it. My two, I've got three little kids, Molly and Sophie, both of them, they had fevers, lasted for them about a day, and then they're fine. My little guy, Charlie, who's three, he's the one who's probably a little bit more like me. He's had it sort of sit in his lungs for a lot longer, but, you know, he's still being a big pain in the butt around the house. And then my wife, she's managed to avoid at least my experience of it, but she hasn't been all that, all that sick with it. So everyone's, everyone's just different. But you know, like I've said to people, whether it's through interviews, I talked to the New York Times, I talked to Business Insider, and just other interviews with people is this my experience makes me really appreciate how I know that people who've got maybe lung issues or just compromised immune systems, why it's so important for us to self distance and to just follow the playbook so that we can, you know, mitigate the spread of this as fast as possible. And then the flip side is, you know, the fast, the smarter that we play that game, the more we're going to actually, you know, save the. It's not that I want to talk about the economy, but like, you know, everyone's going to get impacted in some way, possibly financially. Some people are winning right now. I just got off a call with one of my good friends whose company is just taken off. But that's, it's Franklin Sports and you know, so they make gloves and all sorts of games for kids and everyone's buying up tons of stuff. He said that in the last eight days they've sold more, you know, basketball hoop type things that you fill up with sand. Oh yeah, in the last eight days than all of last year combined.

Well, so like, I want to talk about this a little bit because I think there's this sort of double, like we have to, number one, accept that things have changed and that business is going to change. And then the faster we do that, the faster we can see where the opportunities are. So I would love to just talk about what you would say to somebody who's, you know, feeling panicked. They don't want to admit that things are changing. They either want to like pretend it's not happening or look for evidence that like everything's just going to go back to normal in a few days and it's not. What would you say to them to try to like help them accept it and also then see the opportunity that may be there for them?

Yeah, I think that maybe to give people a little bit of a metaphor or analogy to think through this with is choose, choose your favorite predator, whatever it might be for you, whether it's a shark or whether it's a lion or whether it's a wolf or whatever is your spirit animal on this kind of thing. And we want to attack the problems. I shared a quote last week that I, that I gave to a CEO that I was talking to who was very much in denial. State a little bit of talking about the fear mongering and China conspiracy and other things. And, and I, and I was talking to him because I'm doing this huge study on how CEOs right now are responding and reacting to the current climate. And, and we've been doing studies like this for a long time and there's a very specific process that we follow and I'm more interested in gathering the word choices and the context of what they are saying and we record stuff and analyze it and anyways, at the end of it, so he wasn't a client or by any stretch, most of them are not even close to being clients. So I said to him at the end, because again, I'm A coach. I'm a mentor and an advisor. But that means just because I'm the noun and he didn't want my verb, which is coaching. Right. He'd been signing up to talk to me about the world and I said, would you, are you willing to be coached right now? And he said, yeah, please do. And so I said, you can't solve a problem you're not willing to have or accept. And just, I'll say it again for people, you cannot solve a problem you're not willing to have or accept. So that's the problem with the denial phase for people is all you're doing is you're just pushing off a decision or a problem that's going to, that you have to accept at some point in time. And accepting the problem doesn't mean that you've got to accept whatever you're presupposing is going to be the outcome from it. Yeah, because when you actually accept the problem, say like, I'm willing to accept that maybe my industry or my business model might not be custom built to win in today's climate right now. Because the moment you accept that, now you can go, okay, well, now you can. Now you just clear up the emotional space in your head which allows you to get into the mental space to now handle it in a more pragmatic fashion and think more clearly and you know, maybe get other people to help you look at your current situation or circumstance and find the opportunities. And anyways, I talked to him just a little bit longer and he said, I can already feel like some of the, the weight of emotion leaving me because you're right, I haven't accepted. I'm not willing to accept it. And you know, but in that moment he was, he had made the decision and it's, it's amazing. That's the thing with like, you know, for all of us, the choices of our words. I mean, you guys talk about it with the stuff that you try to help people with around offers and messaging. When you find the right way to say something to people, maybe you don't even need to sell an entire course to them, but you give them that space to now get clarity. And that's one of the first milestones we need to get people to first is let's lift the fog so that they're clear now about what the issue might be, what the problem is, what the opportunity might be. So, so that they can now move forward and take action.

It's, you know, I've struggled with anxiety for, you know, pretty much my Whole life. And I, and I have a therapist, coach, person who has always said to me that anxiety is just a fear of another feeling. Right. You're. And so if you're having anxiety about your business, it could be a symptom of the fact that you're fearing the feeling of like, oh, crap, things have actually changed. And that's like a signal to you that you're probably struggling to accept what is. And then like you said, once you can the mental bandwidth that, that frees up to accept it and then to move. And you said something to me the other day when you were on the phone. I would love for you to talk about it. About Maslov's hierarchy of needs and how a lot of offers in this space tend to focus on the self actualization part of the pyramid and sort of how you see that. So if you could just share that.

Well, you know what I actually have, I have it up on my, on my whiteboard app. So I'll share my whiteboard. Yeah, so. So if people are familiar with Maslow, Abraham Maslow did this amazing, wrote this, you know, amazing book called Man's Search for Meaning. And that's the right title. Yeah, yeah. And so, but in it, the big model and that everyone's found very useful is Maslow's hierarchy and needs. And if you think about at the very bottom, bottom of this layer down here, you've got the physical and basic needs that human beings have. And you know, when we first started out as organized societies, that's where we were moving from was these tribes that were just looking at safety needs and physiological needs. And then we started to be able to like climb up the ladder because of just the, you know, development of our societies and stuff and cultures. So, you know, physiological needs, air, water, food, shelter, sleep, clothing, sex, safety needs, personal security, employment, health and property. Then you get into love and belonging, which is friendship, intimacy, family and connection. Then you rise up into esteem, which is like about respect and self esteem and freedom and status recognition and then finally self actualization. You know, so as people satisfy these different needs, their, their desires now level up. Right. And now here's the challenge though is you can also map your business services and your products to a lot of these levels. And so some people with some of their products and their service offerings right now and their messaging, they sell to these categories. You know, the self actualization one is the desire to become the most one can be. Right. Well, the problem is if, if you, if you maintain your messaging at that level right now, when really the attention and the need of the market has come down the pyramid because people are now, not everybody. Again, not, this isn't to paint the entire brush, but you're gonna find more than less. Their, their attention has come down here. And, and even if you take a look at groups, you and I were talking about this last week, people who are perceived as real leaders right now are really winning in the market because there is this real flock into groups to get connection, to get belonging, to get assurance. That's a big need for people right now is to get reassurance. But if you're not perceived as a leader, maybe you're not seeing that same trend because people at the same time also have this huge need to get psychological safety and just some advisory around some of these other needs that are down there. So my point about this is if you go back and you take a look at your offers, your business, your products, your business model and you go, wait, am I communicating to the wrong need right now? How can you shift up the communication to now match up the way that your clientele or students or customers thinking is actually going towards, then you might find that you can start to win again.

Yeah, exactly. So it's not necessarily about changing the core of the offer as much as it's the messaging around the offer and the needs that it fulfills. So if you are a marketer, I know a lot of marketers follow me, we could talk about it in terms of these higher needs of, you know, brand and mission and impact, all this kind of stuff. Or we could bring the messaging down to this is, this is like about your, this is about making money so that you have your physical and safety needs met. Right.

Yeah, Right now. Right now we're selling meat and potatoes. We're not selling cotton candy and sprinkles.

Yeah.

You know, even though that's what people want is cotton candy and sprinkles, many times people want stuff that's gonna satiate the need and the appetite right now. That's just one way to be really thinking about this.

And yeah, what about like, so obviously not every business is going to survive this. Like it's just not. You know, there are a lot of businesses that run with margins so tight that, you know, over leverage lifestyles. And so how do you, if you are talking to someone who wasn't prepared for this kind of situation, what would you say to them to encourage them to not be afraid to pivot their business? So for example, let's say you're a Facebook ads agency and your Clients are drying up and you may need to pivot what your agency services does. What would you say to someone who's like, trying to figure out how to get their footing when things seem like their dominoes are falling over?

Goes back to what I was saying before with the quote, are you willing to accept the problem? Like, are you willing to also maybe see yourself in a different way right now? This is the reinvention of all of us that's being forced upon many of us as well. I mean, we've got to reinvent. There's some things that we need to be doing. We lost, you know, in the last few weeks, we've lost, you know, a large chunk of revenue because we had a couple of events that we had go city and then lost my microphone for a second. Can you hear me?

Yeah, I got you. You're good.

Okay. So, yeah, so, I mean, you know, but that's no sob story for us. I mean, like I said, the wind is blowing on all of us. All right, so who cares, Tod? But it's this opportunity to, like, iterate and reinvent. And I think in some ways, if people would actually admit to themselves that some people weren't. Because I find this. There's people who are, you know, there's a lot of people that I, you know, mentor and help in the million dollar plus range of businesses and on up, there's a lot of people who've got businesses that have, that are fairly ramped up and scaled up that actually they felt stuck or trapped inside of them. So, you know, this is a opportunity to rebirth the business that maybe you want. And I don't know about you, but my experience is a lot of the things that I found that I ended up loving in life, was very good at, ended up becoming a passion for me, were only discovered by being forced into them in some ways. Okay, so you don't know, like, it's, it's sometimes we, we prejudge something before we've even gotten into it. You know, we've all maybe played that as like, oh, do I really want to go and do the go karting with my friends tonight? Or something like that. You end up winning the checkered flag and, you know, dominating your best friend's husband who you didn't really like anyway, or something like that. But like, you know, you couldn't have discovered that unless you went and you did it. So, you know, this is the thing that I love about the two very distinct groups that I work with, which is athletes, because I have my performance company that works with pro athletes and Olympians and entrepreneurs, founders and CEOs is that their psychological makeup is actually very similar in that they have very high levels of risk taking. And they're one of a very, very few distinct groups of people that are very much willing to, like a snake, shed their skin. And so I think the people who are willing to shed the skin the fastest right now, whether it's cut away things that don't matter and make some hard choices with your personal life or in business as well, or just going right back down to your business model and saying, okay, well is the who that I'm serving with the product that I have? And their problem is that all matched up really well right now with, with the way that they're marketing. Because if not, let's go reinvent that.

Yeah, well, you know, maybe we started talking about this. You talk about attacking the problem. What does it look like if you were to compare two people, one who's attacking the problem and one who is paralyzed? Like how, how do you learn how to take risk when you're feeling like you want security, it causes you have to lean into something that is like against what your intuition is telling. What's your advice on how to do that?

So, well, some of the stuff isn't actually risk, it's just reality.

Yeah.

And you know, a lot of people aren't, aren't willing to truly face risk. Again, it's like, are you willing to accept this problem that we have? Because I actually just have a meta operating belief in my life, which is there. I don't have problems. I just have decisions that haven't been made yet. Okay, so someone else might look at as a problem, I go, no, that's just a decision that I have not made yet. And so my, my, my pursuit in life as a Libran. Libras typically aren't the best at decision making. Apparently. That's what they say on the sign horoscope. I'm not a big horoscope guy, but there's some interesting things that are there. I was always very indecisive when I first started out in business. And I'm maybe known for the alter ego world and building performance identities and stuff. And so when I built out my leader Persona for myself in business, I wanted to truly adopt the behaviors, the actions, the mindset of someone who's very decisive. That sort of more immature version of Todd was indecisive, but not that one. That one was going to be like, cut away, make decisions. And so even all of the frameworks and things like that that I help people with is truly about helping them make decisions. Even my 90 day year program, truly the 90 day year is actually a decision making program. It might not sound sexy to everyone, but when you look at your real problems in life or the issues that you're dealing with, it's a decision issue. And most people make bad decisions because they don't have good methodical processes. So that idea of attacking things right now for you, we want to mitigate as much risk as possible. So what does that look like? That means how can you make a really small bet that doesn't demand that your entire business might fail to see if this new offer and this message might work for you? What are the small bets, the small tests that we can make?

Yeah.

And then depending on your own threshold of risk, someone else, it could be go big. You know, that's why there's, there's nuance to how you coach someone through this process. Because everyone's thresholds are slightly differently, everyone's skill sets are slightly different than others. So I would just say keep your costs low as much as possible and make some small shifts and bets and see if that starts to land differently. And, and then really, I think where most people are making the mistake is they are. There's with two distinct areas that they're making a mistake on. One is they're not talking to their audience enough. And when I say talking, I mean like talk. Like getting on the phone and talking to them. Yeah, that's why I'm doing that CEO study and getting on the phone and calling all these people because I want to hear the real words, I want to hear the real emotion that's there because that's very much dictating some of the offerings and ways that we're trying to help people. And secondly is yes, communities have come together. People have started to have probably more Zoom calls or FaceTime calls than they've had in the history of their life. And it's, you know, you know, 5x in activity more than anything in the past. But one thing I just challenge people on is are you coming onto those calls and you're leaving with someone else like me or they're dealing with it. And so that makes you feel good. But that doesn't get you the one thing that are two things that are really important, which is clarity and movement. So I have this framework called calm, which is about people in need right now need clarity, they need assurance, they need leadership, and they need movement.

Yeah.

Okay. And so A lot of people are coming into groups and they're getting assurance. Okay, you know, everyone looks like me and other people are challenged too. That makes you feel good. Okay. But they're not getting good advisory and coaching to get them clear on what needs to happen next and what their action plan should be to get them moving and hold them accountable to it. So just encourage people to make sure that they're really seeking out, you know, that, that clarity for them to take action so they're not just sticking stinks stuck in a mud of just reassurance, because that's just not going to get you anywhere.

Yeah, movement, it's so important. I mean, that's even economically what we need. We need money to move in order to bring the economy. And that's just a principle. Movement is where. And you know, we've got the fight or flight mechanism that happens to us in crisis. And the freeze one is probably the most painful one because it's the opposite of what will actually get you out of it, which is movement.

Well, and the freeze one is just so terrifying for people because when you're frozen, you actually see the train lights coming at you and you know, the impending doom of it, and yet you still don't move. And it's like for some people, there are some of those people who are not willing to move and shift their businesses right now, and yet they fundamentally know that that light that's coming is not going to feel good when it hits them. But you've got the power because you've demonstrated it before to start. And so, yeah, you can lament the fact that things change and you didn't want it to change, you didn't ask it to change. That's not a leader. A leader is going to go, yeah, I didn't want it, but I'm going to take it and I'm going to chew on this fat that I got right now.

Yeah, it's interesting because, you know, I mean, I financially, like, I've got a, you know, a rainy day fun. And we talk about this all in theory. You know, like every month I've been taking 70% of my profits and using it. And then 30% is for a rainy day. And you know, when there's no rainy days and everything is fun, you watch your rainy day fund go up and then you forget that you're actually going to have to use that rainy day fund for something you probably didn't want to have to use it for. But that was the point. But you have to, like, suck it up. And be like, oh, right, that's why I made that. And now I got to use it, even though that's not what I thought I was going to use it for. And just, and like keep, you know, keep moving 100%.

Rainy day funds are never typically things that we. That's why it's the rainy day fund, things we wanted.

But when you build a business and things are always going well, you can forget that that fund is actually that what that's there for. You can think that it's, you know, just whatever funny money or what have you. But. So I know you have a book out about alter egos and can you like, what would be like a piece of advice for anyone listening who's like, okay, I hear you. I need to accept it. I need to see what I need to shift, make decisions.

Yeah.

I am not that person. I am worried to death and I am scared and I mean, I can't. I don't know what to do next.

Yeah. So one of it is just a noticing of language. So it's, you may not be that person right now. And that's because we as human beings, we always act through whatever we associate ourselves with. So oftentimes we can be associating with an identity that can feel trapped or we're associating with someone who's a victim. And you know, if you're associating with yourself as being a victim right now, it's hard for you to take and even see opportunities right now. And yet, you know, I've done this for 22 years, working people on the six inches between their ears and you know, more specifically on using alter egos as a way to create a powerful model for you to envision in your mind for how you want to step into a new way of behaving, feeling and thinking to help people transform and see themselves in every way. And so the reason I say that is that the skills, abilities and qualities, attributes that you need right now to be successful are already there. Everything that you need right now to help you get momentum and wins is already there. That's just how I treat people. I know it to be true because I've done this for a long frickin time.

Yeah.

And so just even that, just recognizing that those attributes are there whether you can see them or not, just, you know, if you trust me, if you think that I'm giving you some good advice, then, you know, just blindly trust me on that. Okay? Just blindly trust me on that. And if not, that's fine. So then let's test this out.

Yeah.

So the way to be thinking through this, then is, you know, because the alter ego itself, you know, comes from Cicero, who said it in 44 BC, what. Who's widely known as being one of the greatest Roman statesmen and philosophers to ever live. And he said, the alter ego is the other eye or trusted friend within. And the way to be thinking about it is, what's that model of the person that I already respect or admire, and I would love to show up like they would in this situation. Circumstance. Because when you do that and you find someone again, you've got to have an emotional connection to that person. You can't just say, oh, Wonder Woman, because that's a superhero.

And.

But if you don't like Wonder Woman, or there's no emotional connection for someone else, it could be, you know, Jane Eyre, or it could be Oprah, or it could be insert the name of anyone or anything. It doesn't matter to me. What matters is that you're emotionally connected because that emotional bridge is the connecting device between the ideas you have of how you want to act, think, and behave and gets them out onto the field of action where behavior sits. And so thinking of that model in your own mind of how you want to show up. And for right now, the challenge is sometimes for some of us in our homes right now, you know, everyone's faced with the same reality of having our kids, if you've got kids home with you, and if not, then, you know, good for you. You're not challenged by that right now, but, like, you know, and then. But really thinking through, like, who's that model that might be out there? And then finding ways to, you know, embody their traits in the way that you show up. So, you know, like, I have a pair of glasses that I used for the longest time to help me activate that super richer version of myself, which was confident and decisive and articulate when I first started out, and I felt indecisive, lacked confidence, and was. Wasn't very articulate in the way that I communicated. And. But Super Richard was. And Super Richard, if you think about it this way, is that Alter Ego's true purpose is to be the advocate for the dreams or the aspirations or desires that you have within and helps pull them out, because maybe in some way you can't find and see yourself doing it, but that alter ego can. And then all of a sudden, you end up becoming the person that you wanted to be, and it becomes so natural for you. And really, the alter ego was just this great disassociation that you used to help find the attributes within, and you.

Were using an actual physical object, in this case the glasses, to really help activate that Persona that you. You know, that identity shift that you were creating for yourself. Yep. That's awesome.

And it's. What. It's. What it's tapping into is a psychological phenomenon called enclosed cognition, which is that we as human beings, we add story and meaning to. To the clothing that we wear and that other people wear. And when we put it on, we actually unconsciously activate those traits without even having to think about it. So, for example, if you put on a lab coat or a doctor's coat, it's been proven in multiple different studies. You will start to act more. You'll start to act. Yeah. You'll start to naturally act more detailed, and you'll start to act more pragmatic, and you'll start to act more careful. And so if you were doing an activity where those attributes helped you succeed at that, well, what a beautiful thing. And that's why, you know, glasses. Glasses are proven with multiple studies.

And that's why when we're all in quarantine, we maybe should not just have two sets of pajamas that we keep switching in and out of all day.

Maybe that would be a good idea is to level up your. A little bit. Yeah, there's just a shift that happens. Everyone knows that whether it's, you know, a favorite pair of shoes or a favorite, you know, like, dress or skirt or pants or shirt, doesn't matter.

Like, but there's like a phys. There's like a psychological activation that happens. This isn't just like a. Like a weird ritual. This is like, you know, studied.

And even if it is a weird ritual, that's the. That's the beautiful thing of human beings is we can add story to anything. We can add story and meaning to anything. So I'll give you an example. So I have little figurines made up of all of my little kids. This is little Molly. And so she's my little statue that sits in front of me. And I've got Sophie here as well, my other little one. And they sit right here on my desk in front of my larger screen. And when I'm creating programming or what I'm creating messages, that's actually who I'm talking to, is those two. Because in my mind, 20 years or 10 years, whenever it is, that they might become entrepreneurial or they need some sort of mindset help, I hope they find a messenger that cares about Their, their well being. And so when I'm speaking to people, it's almost like I'm speaking to Molly and Sophie. It's not even almost like that's who I'm speaking to because it's very easy for me to care about them. And so if it's easy for me to care about them, then it's going to be easy for that transmission of emotion to come across in the videos that I have or the training that you have. And so that's just a totem, that's just an artifact that we all have these things. And it takes me zero seconds in time for me to make that mental shift. So that's all it is. Those glasses help me make that mental shift. This hat, there's similar things I wore when I wrote my book. I didn't see myself as a writer. Now I do, but I had. I twisted my hat around and wore it backwards when I wrote. And it was me switching. Switching a new identity on Switching a new identity.

So all of us whether, you know, so step one, for. If you guys are just joining, step one is really to accept the acceptance. Right. Like, are you willing to accept that there, that your business has shifted and you didn't ask for it, but none of us did. But here we are. And there is an opportunity here, like you said, for some people who were exhausted by their business or, you know, this is a, this is a crisis and a perfect opportunity to pivot and then once you've done that, to use movement and also to activate that alter ego, to start making decisions.

Yeah, that new model of reinvention for yourself just to speed through the process. Because we're all going to, we're all going to move through it. So if that's a reality, then just for me, I'm just so pragmatic, I'm like, all right, well then how can I do it way faster than other people so I don't get stuck in the quagmire of change like many other people do?

Yeah. Awesome. Oh my gosh. Well, thank you so much. Can you tell everyone where to go get your book as I know you have?

Sure, yeah. Alter egoeffect.com is kind of home base for it. I also have a kid's version called My Super Me.

Oh, that's awesome. I was wondering, I could see it like in the background. I was like, that looks like a kid's book over there.

Yeah. No. So on the one year anniversary of the Alter Ego Effect coming out, which was last month, I wanted to have a children's version come out for everyone as well. And so it's done exceptionally well. And I'll even read the first because it's a perfect map to kind of. If you think about the world that we're living in, it starts off with, so this is all about right now. It's a little guy who has a stuffed animal that he imagines in his mind his name's Captain Storm, who helps them do tough stuff. So it starts with, sometimes things are hard, sometimes things are tough. Sometimes we try and we try and it's still not enough. Things are heavy, they're scary, they're new, they're old. Things are too hard, too loud, too hot or too cold. When things are too something to this or to that, I may get quite angry, upset, or just sad, and it just goes on. And he finds this kind of hero within to help him do tough stuff. So I will give. Oh, if you do have little kids, that books called My Super Me. If you do have little kids, I'll give you a caveat. Do not read it to them right before bedtime because it makes them feel like they can run through walls. Great, great way to start the day. Don't end it. Don't end it with the book.

But yes, the name of that is called what?

So that one's My Super Me.

My Super Me. Okay.

Yeah. And alter egoeffect.com or you can just go to Amazon and find both books there. Then. My home base on the Internet is ToddHerman me, and you can find all the links to social media there as well.

Awesome. Well, I'm really glad that you are coming out the other side of this ridiculous virus, and I'm really glad that you are speaking up on all the ways in which entrepreneurs and business owners have to adjust and pivot and really appreciate your time.

Yeah, absolutely. Happy to be here and help. Thanks, Jill.

All right, talk later, guys. Bye.

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