Overcoming Networking Fears: Julie Zhuo's Advice

One of the things I remember about getting a tour of the Facebook headquarters was that it seems super intimidating because it's like, on the one hand, it's super inspiring and you get to see everyone. You know, it's grand and it's huge and the scale is like so hard to wrap your head around kind of thing. It's almost like disorienting, sort of. But I would imagine if you're someone who's just coming in to a company such as Facebook or Google, you know, wherever, how can you go about making those relationships when it's kind of, you know, everything is telling you, like, don't you know, that's Julie Zoo. Don't approach her. She's a vpub designer product. You will be fired if you try and talk to her. I'm sure that it's encouraged, that community is encouraged and stuff like that. But that's. It's one thing for the management to encourage. It's another thing for someone to like, you know, just entering to go out on a limb and say hi to you in the cafeteria kind of thing.

Right?

Is that a good thing? Is that it's something that exists. Be honest with me for real. Like, if someone comes up to you, are you kind of like, whoa, know your role or no, I'm excited.

Like, I love actually meeting designers. You know, it is funny because you are right, that like, you know. Well, for example, in the past I've often done things for my team where it's like, hey, I'd love to do office hours, you know, like, love to come meet you. Let's like, you know, have a chat. And it's like sort of open sign up. Not that many people take me up on that. And I think it's a little bit of the, you know, vibe that you're describing with, you know. And I remember when I was interning at Microsoft, like there was a similar feeling, right? You know, I had gone to do a summer internship at Microsoft. Microsoft was a very large company at the time, tens of thousands of people. I walk in, it's obviously a huge company. It has this long and storied history. And everyone else who seemed like they had been there for much longer and were way more experienced and were much better at what they were doing. And I had a very similar experience where I was like, I don't know who I can go talk to. I'm just this whatever, 20 year old, who am I to go and actually ask for help or advice or feedback. But I think that is the narrative that we tell ourselves in our heads. Right? And that is, you know, I know that being on the other side of that, you know, as somebody who, like, I love it when people come and ask me for advice or help or when they send me an email or when they, you know, sign up for office hours and they want to talk about their career. Because, you know, like, I want to be able to help other people, but I can't if, like, no one is asking any questions or no one, you know, is comfortable enough to kind of put themselves out there and be like, hey, here's what you can do for me, or here's what you can help me understand, or here's like some advice I have for you on what we could do to make our design team better. So I think that the people for whom do end up growing the fastest are the ones who don't let this get in their way. Right. Because frankly, when you're like, oh, I don't think I could go talk to X or Y, a lot of that is like fear talking. Or a lot of that is fear sort of, you know, maybe your assumptions.

Right?

Yeah. And, you know, you're like, you know, you don't necessarily think you, like, they want to or you don't want to maybe be rejected or whatever it is. Right. But like, what's the worst that can happen if you go and you, you know, email someone that you admire and you say, hey, you know, I, you know, really, I think it's awesome that you do X or Y. And I was wondering, you know, like, can I pick your brain about something or, you know, would you be able to offer feedback? I mean, the worst that can happen is you'll hear no, and that's fine. You know, like, and you know, the other person is obviously not obligated to spend time with you or do that, but a lot of times people will say yes, you know, Even if it's 30% of the time and if you never ask, then you'll never get that yes.

And also the follow up is so important too. Like, I kind of like toed the line in messaging you. Like, I probably messaged you like four or five times, which is ridiculous, but I made sure that kind of like space it out and stuff like that. I feel like people don't realize how busy some people are and the importance of the follow up and they just like wrap up their self esteem and it's like, well, I'm not gonna message them again because then I'll definitely get that email. Like, who do you think you Are. But you're never gonna get that email back.

You're never gonna get that email.

Cause it's not gonna. You know, like, if they were to come back and be combative with you, then you'd be like, oh, okay, like, wrong. You know, I've gone down the wrong turn. I'm gonna go find more cool people.

But that's, like, the worst thing that you can hear is no. And that's not so bad, right?

And you might hear yes. That's what's so crazy. Like, you might sometimes hear yes on the first one. Like, I send out, like, every couple. Every few months, I just send out an email to, like, Mark Zuckerberg and his team, and it's just, like. It's. The odds of that happening are, like, never gonna. Don't worry. I'm not gonna be gross about this. I'm trying to get you to do it. Don't worry. But I'm just saying, like, the odds of it happening are slim to none. But, like, damn it, I want to know if he's the kind of guy who checks his inbox. I want to know. And I think that's a mindset. But I just remember being at Facebook headquarters and thinking to myself, oh, this is different. Like, if I got here and was in the room with these people, I'm no longer in the Trojan horse of having a podcast. And it's kind of cool to hear from you that you're encouraging that and wanting that. But as long as the intent is right, too. Right. I think the intent is everything.

Agree, Agree. And I think if you put yourself out there and you go and, you know, you're seeking ways to learn, to grow, you know, you're persistent about that. You're not. You're not letting your ego get in the way, then you're gonna see, you know, returns from that. You're gonna see people, you know, you're gonna see opportunities open up. You're gonna see people say yes, you're gonna have great conversations, and you're, frankly gonna get more learning. And I think that is an important thing to, you know, continually put yourself out there and just not be afraid of, frankly, you know, people saying no and.

Yeah, we're all human beings at the end of the day. You know what I mean? It's like. It's just. It's just a title. Yeah. It's so cool. I love this. This is awesome. This is, like, what I'm trying to prove on this podcast.