Garden Expert: The Fastest Way to Plan Your Garden

We currently live in a little, um, it's like a 400-square-foot tiny home. Oh, it's a small—

you're living in a tiny home?

We're living in a tiny home.

Wait, now you can't hear me complain then because you're in a tiny home with 3 kids under 5.

3 kids, yeah, 5 and under. Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

How's that going?

You know, we are— we're content, we're comfortable. It's— there's different stages of tiny home, right? So you have the tiny home that's on a trailer that people drive around. Ours is not on a trailer, it's on skids. So it's a little wider. It's like 14 feet wide by— and it, it's just enough that when you come into it, it feels more open. You go into a regular tiny home, it's almost like a hallway, right? It's just very narrow. So In many ways, we're quite, quite comfortable. Couch folds down, boys sleep out there. Everest, our daughter, is still pretty young, little crib by our bed. And so it's nice, but we're, we're ready to move on.

Why did you do that?

Larger space. We did it primarily just financially wise. We don't want to, don't want to go into a bunch of debt.

Yeah. So how much does it cost to live in a tiny home like that every month?

Gotta ask my wife.

She takes care of it. It's paid for?

She takes care of our home base. Yeah. So it's paid for. Um, so it's just, I mean, it's the land, regular electric, and we have spring water, so we don't—

And you're on family land, right?

We are.

And it's paid for? Yeah. Yeah. Grandpa bought this 75 acres. In 1932 for $500.

500 bucks? Yeah, that's incredible.

So we've paid— we— it's paid for. No, and then my dad had bought it from them for $20,000 in the '50s, and then I bought it from my dad for half a million. Okay, in the '10s, it increased in value significantly, and he was giving me a good deal.

Wow.

Uh, okay, so back to the tiny home thing. So and your business. You run a business called Seed Time. For those that don't know, that's a garden planting business. Also though, you're a manufacturer. Well, this is what— like, you're looking at our coffee mug and you're like, I made this.

Yeah, yeah. I'll put that as a past project now. We don't do it anymore.

Why not? Um, seems like we made a coffee mug that ended up being in my place. We bought it at Walmart or Amazon somewhere. Wouldn't there be a lot of money in that?

There is, there is significant money in it. They're quite hot selling items and we just ran into manufacturing issues is the main thing. So we had it made. So I'm not a manufacturer, but we had it manufactured and then you become a manufacturer when you— You had the patent? No, we don't have a patent on it, but we did.

Okay.

We did redesign the lid so that it would be completely plastic free on the inside. which is very rare for an electric kettle.

I'm gonna tell you right now, that's why we have it.

Probably.

Yeah. She's the crazy stainless steel lady.

Yeah.

And I'm down.

And that's what we sold it as. I mean, we—

stainless steel inside.

You know, all the Amazon keywords was, you know, plastic-free kettle.

So is that some passive income for you now or did you sell that business?

No, we just, it's pretty much, it's not officially shut down yet, but we are gonna be officially—

So that coffee mug is going away?

Yeah.

Really?

Sorry.

Everything she buys and finds and enjoys then goes away. Seems how it goes.

Well, hopefully not everything.

How many were you selling a month?

Oh, it was, uh, I mean, we were doing a couple hundred.

Couple hundred a month.

I mean, it slowed down like over time because we ended up— here's the thing.

We—

it was a side business project and we put a bunch of time into it, getting it off the, off the ground and started. And then SeedTime took off and we like, I'm swamped with SeedTime, so I can't, you know, I can't focus on anything else really. And so ended up just being a side thing and it just sat and ran on its own for, for a while. And then it never took off to the scale that we really got our investment back in it and that, you know, we could really push it forward and stuff because we ended up spending quite a bit of money in the actual redesign process. They have to redo molds and stuff like that for it. Anyways, so you actually— I think there's still— yeah, I think there's still potential there.

But are you guys just a bunch of entrepreneurs?

Interestingly enough, our family has shifted to the entrepreneurial world.

Interesting enough, they weren't.

So they weren't. Yeah. So my grandfather on both sides of my family, my mom's side and my dad's side, both of my grandfathers were doctors. And deep in the medical field. My dad has a master's in public health, both of my parents actually. And my, my uncle who eventually started the farm, he was a teacher. So more just regular standard careers. Now, interestingly, my dad did get an agriculture degree in college, like an associate's or something like that. So he's always been interested in agriculture. And then he went and most of his career was in public health. So we actually— I grew up a lot overseas and he was doing public health clinics and working with local communities overseas. And then it wasn't until I turned 11 that we actually came back to the United States and eventually landed back on the farm. My uncle started the farm. He eventually invited my dad to come join him. And that's— it was a deep dive into agriculture. And there's tons of stories. I mean, we learned the hard way.

So you've been farming your whole life?

I have not been farming my whole life, but my we always had a garden. So my mom was— my dad got the agriculture associate's degree. My mom was the green thumb of the family. And so, like, so much so that anywhere we would go, she would be the one that was bringing plant cuttings with her. When we moved, we were taking our compost, you know, with us. And so we always— everywhere we went, there was always a garden. We always had stuff that we were growing. And when we moved back to the States, my dad put up a greenhouse. You know, we were— it was always a part of our lives. But then when we moved to the farm, that's when it actually became like a part of our livelihood.

Right.

And that takes it to a new level and you have to learn new skills. And, and yeah, like I said, you learn a lot of things the hard way.

It actually became your livelihood. That, that was the income. Yeah, he was not a doctor anymore. Yeah, he gave up the doctor to be a farmer.

Well, so my grandfather was the doctor. Oh, my dad was the public health master's in public health.

I get you.

So he stopped. He did a couple consultancy jobs here and there, and then that eventually phased out and just went full-time into small-scale vegetable farming. It would have vegetables, herbs, and berries.

Yeah.

Yeah.

What countries did you live in?

Yeah. So I was born in Sudan and then we moved and lived in Tanzania for several years. And then what I remember the most was actually Yemen, which is in the Middle East.

What did you say? Why you were moving, why you were so international?

So my dad and mom were doing public health work over there, and we're also there for missional purposes as well, although most of the countries, both Sudan and Yemen, like you cannot be there for any type of— with any type of missional aspect. You know, you're there for work, for business, and so he was there as a public health going out to remote villages, helping with sanitation, like teaching about sanitation. And they had a clinic and all that kind of stuff.

So where are you from?

It's a good question. I—

You travelers, I ask that. You don't have a sense of home.

There was a— I came back into the United States one time after traveling overseas and customs dude looked at me and he's like, you're Sudanese. And I was like, well, I mean, I was born in Sudan. He's like, passports don't lie. You're Sudanese. Because obviously I was born—

you were a Sudanese citizen.

I was not.

No.

So I— it would be kind of fun to say that it was, but no, I can't. I can't say that it was at the time. And I don't know if it has changed now, but at the time, your grandfather had to be a citizen for you to be like automatically.

Okay. So it's not like America where you're born here, you're American.

Yeah.

So I had to go back a while. But why do you remember Yemen then?

Yeah. So those were the years when I was between about 5 to 11. So I remember a little bit of Tanzania, which was right before that, but I was just so young. That it wasn't as much.

What language do they speak there?

Arabic.

You speak that?

Shoya shoya.

Wow. Just a little bit. I would have thought you said, yeah, sure. A lot. Only a little bit.

No, I've lost it.

Shoya shoya. Have you ever pulled that off somewhere?

Yeah, yeah, a little bit.

That you surprised the crud out of somebody.

Yeah, I'll see like an Arab and I'll say, assalamu alaikum. You know, it's their welcome or greeting.

And they're so surprised. And yeah, sometimes it's not like us knowing a little bit of Spanish. That's one thing, right?

Yeah, it's not way less common. Yeah. For an American to know a little bit of Arabic.

But your heart language is English.

It is.

Yeah. You pray in English.

Yeah.

Yeah. But you don't know where home is.

Well, home is Tennessee now.

Yeah, it is.

So, and I would say, I mean, in a couple aspects. One, it's the longest— it's the place that I've lived the longest now.

Okay.

For sure. And, and we— the— our history here in Tennessee does go back. My grandfather was born in Bon Aqua, which isn't very far from the farm where we live now. So he actually grew up in Tennessee, and then he spent his career in Southern California and then moved back and retired here. And so the family kind of has centered back to—

Your family roots are in Tennessee.

Yeah.

Why, why Tennessee? Why do you think your family chose Tennessee over all the other 49 states?

Good question. So it actually goes back to a family history. Where early on my grandfather's parents— and I don't remember if it was their parents as well, if it was just my grandfather's parents. I think it was my grandfather's parents that moved to Tennessee, and they moved because they wanted to do mission work in Tennessee. They wanted to start a church, and they did. Eventually the family ended up starting a church. It's the one we go to now. Actually.

What?

Uh, in Tennessee, Centerville, Tennessee.

That's been over 100 years ago. Yeah, it's been, uh, what mission work is this? The Seventh-day Adventist mission work?

Yeah.

Okay, so you have a long history of farming or gardening?

Gardening.

You have a long history of Seventh-day Adventists? Yeah, so much so that you were on missions with it with your folks. Okay. Yeah. And they're not still doing that?

Yeah, not in the same way. Yeah, although they still are involved with an organization right now actually called Farm Stew. And what it does is it primarily works in Africa, but it works in other locations as well. And they're actually wanting to do it here in the United States as well. But what they do is they go into a community and they teach the local people how to farm, how to eat healthfully, a lot of the same development style work that my dad used to do, but really empowering the local people at the local level. So instead of just coming in and doing programs, it's really empowering the local— I mean, one story is they were able to help local farmers get the appropriate, because they don't have as good communication over there. And so when they go and sell their produce, they just go and they sell it for what they can sell it for, or someone will come to their farm and say, I'll buy your produce for X, and they don't really have an option to do anything else. And so they were able to help the local farmers have better communication around and know what their produce was actually worth and get get what it was actually worth. So yeah, stuff like that, that the goal is to help people in a holistic fashion, right? So working with helping them, how can you grow better crops? How can you live a healthier lifestyle? And then, you know, we believe that part of a holistic life is your spiritual life as well, right? So encompassing that holistic aspect of living.

You keep mentioning that. Okay, so they went in there for, oh, well, how do you go in somewhere and teach somebody how to eat more healthy?

Yeah, you gotta ask my dad.

When they're used to doing something else.

Good question.

What are their unhealthy habits? Well, okay, I don't— I won't even ask you that. I'll ask you, yeah, how you do it now with your family and friends and whatever. How do you do it yourself? Even pushing Seed Time, really, you're, you're— I mean, that's one way to get people to eat healthier, get them to grow a garden. It is.

Yeah, yeah, it is. And my dad, when he moved to the farm and started farming, he liked to say that he was now doing public health at the grassroots level, like literally, because it's going back down to the basics of growing the food that you're eating. And so I would say, you know, in a very large, broader scale, yes, even SeedTime is a part of that because it's fundamentally, I mean, our mission is to make gardening and farming easier for people. To take away any of those barriers of entry, the complication, the overwhelm, the stress of trying to figure it out, make it all extremely simple so anyone can jump in and start growing their own food. So there's definitely that aspect to it. And then when it comes to sharing about healthy lifestyle and stuff like that, we've, I mean, in various factors in different ways, we've done cooking schools, we've done, my grandfather actually, would do CHIP programs, which was Coronary Health Improvement Project. I think that it's changed its name now. But anyways, so he would do like community and then you just invite the community and people that are interested in that would come and go through the program. And again, just sharing holistically about health, about diet, about lifestyle.

Yeah, yeah, just thinking out loud here. I've had— I've known missionaries who've gone to Kenya, and I'll say, you know, Kenya is the most Christianized nation in the world, like per capita. If you were to ask them if they were Christian, they would actually say yes, but then they would mention that— yeah, they'll say that, but they also have— hang on to their animalistic ways as well. And so they have this mix.

Yeah.

So it just made me think, at least you're with seed time and you were getting people to grow a garden. They might not give up their junk food, but maybe they're eating more healthy stuff because they've— they're growing a garden.

Yeah. Yeah. And here's the thing, you know, anything that they eat that comes out of their garden is going to be way better than anything that came out of the grocery store or something that they got from there. So every little step is a step in the right direction.

Why do you say that? Why do you say it's so much better out of the garden?

Yeah, multiple factors, but one of the biggest is you're going to get— even if you— I mean, we could go into regenerative gardening versus just regular commercial gardening, whatever. But even if you were going to strip all of that aside, the sooner that you eat something from after it's picked, Yeah, the more nutrients you're going to get from it, because a vegetable, as soon as it's picked, it starts a process called respiration and it starts breaking down. It's just that process of decay, and the nutrient content will immediately start dropping. And so, I mean, you can go look at studies, they'll say like, you know, we might lose 30 to 40% of the nutrients by the time we actually eat a lot of just the random vegetables that we get from the store. And if you think about it, you know, a green bean that is picked in California, it's going to take about a day and it transitioned to a truck and then it may be a couple of days on the road. Even if it gets to a store within another day, how long is it going to sit in the store? It's probably on the shelf for a couple of days. It might sit in the back for a little bit. By the time you get it and then you take it home and you might not even eat it for a couple of days, right? It's going to sit in your fridge.

Sit up in there for up to a week.

So the produce that you're actually eating from the store can easily be a week or more older than when it was actually picked, right? Whereas if you pick, if you have a garden, you pick it, you take it straight from your garden to your table, I mean, you're talking about minutes, right? And so there's definite, like at a very fundamental level, you're going to get way more nutrients. And then if you are incorporating organic gardening, regenerative gardening into that as well, and focusing on building up the health and the microbiome of your soil and all of that, I mean, it's just going to increase it even more. Yeah.

Yeah. You had mentioned that this health is a big push. And I know you're a Seventh-day Adventist because you mentioned it out there, and every Seventh-day Adventist I've met has had a health angle, passion for it. Where is that coming from?

Yeah, yeah, it's a good question. So we come at it from the perspective of, number one, um, you know, from a spiritual perspective, we believe that our body is the temple of the Holy Ghost. You know, we want to be, um, we want to be filled with the Spirit of God, and we want to do everything we can to work with the natural, um, system. I mean, God was the one who created us, who made nature, right? We want to— it's like with your, with your garden, you want to provide the best environment for your plants to thrive.

right? Yeah.

And so the same with our health. We come up from the same perspective and I think we share that with a lot of people. Like, you know, we wanna provide the best environment for our bodies to thrive, to be resistant to disease, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. Right? So that is kind of the primary background underlying focus of health. So there's the, there's the, the spiritual aspect of it. And then, but we feel like that's tied to just the physical as well. Like, you can't, you can't completely separate spiritual and physical in the sense that we, we live in a physical world, right? And if I destroy— and it's not Let me put it this way, like if I destroy my body's health, it can affect me mentally, right? It can affect my relationships with other people even. And we feel like in the same way it can affect our relationships with God as well. If your mind isn't as clear, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.

So if you went to a Seventh— somebody went to a Seventh-day Adventist church and Somebody's bringing some snacks. Are there gonna be donuts?

Yeah, that's a good question. It really depends on the, on the Adventist church that you go to.

We have, we, there's different definitions of what's healthy.

Oh yeah. Yeah. I mean, the Adventist church is extremely diverse. Um, and you'll meet, I mean, you'll meet a lot of Adventists that have a very strong emphasis on health, and then you'll meet a lot of Adventists that I mean, I think it's pretty similar with any group of people you have. If you were gonna put them in labels, you have the conservatives, you have the liberals, you have the broad spectrum of people that are much more into caring about their health and then others that, you know, it's, it's just not as high of an importance on their, on their list. And you have people with different perspectives, differing perspectives on exactly what is the best healthy thing to do.

Yeah.

Right. So there's that whole aspect of it as well.

Yeah. Who gets to decide that? What is the most healthy thing?

Yeah. So I think there are different ways to approach that and I would just, I would say that there's, uh, there's kind of the first step is, um, at least for Adventists and for the Adventist Church, is to say, okay, let's just look at a biblical foundation of what, you know, what would be considered healthy, um, from a biblical perspective. And, um, that's one of the reasons why Adventists do choose to, um, if they're going to eat meat, they'll choose to eat clean meat instead of unclean meat because we feel like that was a differentiating factor that God had even back at the flood, you know, even before he went into Levitical. Like, we don't necessarily believe that we're under the Levitical laws of the Old Testament, but we feel like it was a, it was a, it was a health perspective that was carried through from the beginning. And, and then If you're going to take it even further back, right, in the Bible, God initially with Adam and Eve in the garden after sin, he initially gave them the fruits and the vegetables and the nuts and the grains to eat. And it wasn't— we don't have any biblical record of animals being actually given or saying, hey, you know, now you can eat the animals until the flood. So there's a whole, you know, I don't know, you know, years and years between where— I mean, I'm sure that there probably were people that were eating meat before then anyways, but it's just, you know, biblically we don't see that example given until the flood. And so the Adventist Church has taken the perspective that the closer that we can get back to more of the original diet the better that it'll be for your health. And so there's that kind of biblical foundation. And then there's the, you know, what, what, what are the effects in real life? Right. So there's something called the Adventist Health Study that has been done over, over I don't know how many years that it has been now. But looking at, okay, let's look at, you know, let's look at people that have— and the Adventist Health Study is specifically on Adventists, but they say, okay, let's look at different segments of baboonists that are eating in different ways and track their health over long periods of time and see what are the differences. And interestingly, one of the interesting things that has come out of that is, have you heard of the Blue Zones before? Yeah. So the Blue Zones are zones that have people have said, okay, let's look at, see where the longest living people in the world, right? And so there's like one in Japan and I think one in the Mediterranean and there's different areas where you have these very long living people. And when they looked across the world and said, where are the blue zones? One of them ended up being in Loma Linda, which, is a large community of Adventists. And so they said, hey, let's look at what's going on here because it was the only blue zone that was in a modern country, right? That is surrounded by our modern Western diet, basically, right? And so there's the aspect of just looking at it at a scientific level as well and saying, okay, let's look at the science. When it comes to longevity, when it comes to health, you know, what, what has a track record of being a good, healthy lifestyle.

If we go to an Adventist potluck, we may or may not see donuts.

You may or may not see—

what about cheeseburgers? Yeah, we're definitely not going to see cheeseburgers. Again, sometimes we might.

It absolutely depends on the church that you go to. So our church has a plant-based potluck, and basically everything is plant-based. There are churches, I would say the majority of Adventist churches, well, if I was going to take, because the Adventist Church is a worldwide church.

Yeah, I can't ask you to speak for the whole thing.

If I was going to speak for the whole world, I mean, the majority probably, you know, you're going to see a a very broad diet that includes vegetarian and meat-eating.

It sounds like you're not going to see a pork hot dog.

Yeah.

That's where they draw the line.

You wouldn't see a pork hot dog.

Yeah.

But even here in the United States, you'll see a spectrum of a church like ours who does plant-based potlucks to vegetarian where it's just, you may see cheese and milk and egg products all the way to churches that will have chicken and meat and other stuff in there as well.

I'm wondering, what about lamb and Passover? So traditionally folks eat the year-old lamb at Passover.

Yeah.

But I don't know, remember if that was actually biblical, or I don't remember.

Yeah, yeah.

Is that Matt? Do you know the Bible?

Yeah, yeah. No, it was— I don't know, I think it was actually required. I think that they had to—

it was required. It was required. So, so, so, yeah. So Jesus ate lamb on Passover?

Yeah. And he ate fish.

He actually ate fish after he was resurrected. Y'all would be more likely to eat— we'd be more likely to find a lamb burger at this thing. At this potluck, just don't eat much lamb here in the United States. No, only a half a pound a person a year.

Is that—

is that average?

Yeah. So I mean, you'd be much more likely to find like chicken or beef or something, or something that was regular.

Um, but yeah, I thought it was— you're supposed to take the yearling lamb.

That's right. Yep.

Blood of the lamb on the doorpost. So they were killing the lamb for something.

Yeah, so the Adventist Church does not keep the standard feasts of the Old Testament feasts, so in that sense we don't celebrate the Passover like it was celebrated in the Old Testament, which means we don't do the sacrifices of the lambs, and we don't eat them, etc., etc. Um, but yeah, I mean, it's a, it's a good point. Like, it was, it was required in the Jewish economy, um, on Passover to eat the lamb. Um, and the interesting thing about that is that if you look back to, and if you even go to countries those areas and stuff like that, they will oftentimes still have a very large vegetable and plant-based diet, and the meat is kind of a delicacy that's like on the side almost. It's like added in as a delicacy. I mean, it's like the concept of someone coming over and they kill the fatted calf for this special person, right? Because it's a special a special thing. And when you go to those, to, you know, the Blue Zones, they're not all vegetarian, right? I mean, even the Adventists aren't all vegetarian, but other Blue Zones. But one of the things that was significant in all the Blue Zones is it was a highly—

Yeah.

You know, the plant-based, the vegetables, grains, etc., was a higher portion of their overall diet compared to the meat portion. Portion of it.

So yeah, I'm trying to get to the heart of it though. So, so sometimes religions can be following, uh, laws, or, or where the law is. So that with this one, it's coming from a heart for health. So somebody in the Adventist world could also, and perhaps should also, go, go down the train of conventional versus organic versus growing at home. And what you're telling us all in here, here, if you want to be a true steward of the temple of God, then you're going to want to grow the most nutrient-dense food possible.

Yeah, yeah.

And you're going to want to move away from— you can have this rule that, oh, we're going to only eat vegetables, but some vegetables are baloney because they've been— they're so old, they're robbed of their nutrients, they've been sprayed to All get out.

Yeah. I was just talking with a guy just the other day who knew of a girl who decided like she was just going to go plant-based and she was eating like all of these microgreens and, and, you know, you think that it's like super healthy, superfoods, but she ended up with this huge oxalate imbalance in her body and it shut down her kidneys and, you know, she ended up on dialysis and, you know, so there's, if you approach it, you know, if you just, if you just approach it from just a rule standpoint, like, okay, I'm not gonna eat any animals, I'm only gonna eat this or whatever, you can get yourself in a lot of trouble. Like if you're not, if you're not looking at it as a holistic, yeah.

Okay.

Concept, if that makes any sense. Cuz you can 100% go on a plant-based diet and end up completely trashing your health. Yeah.

Cuz you could, Well, I mean, you could eat donuts and only eat donuts, right?

And you could be like, hey, I'm a plant-based vegan vegetarian and all I eat is donuts.

But yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so, yeah, it's definitely, you know, for us, and I'll just speak personally, it's— we enjoy it. Like, it's part of I guess it's part of who we are. And it's not something where if I— when I grew up, my parents, we were vegetarian at home. But when we were overseas, a lot of the people over there are obviously not. And we'd go over and visit people and they'd have us over for meals and stuff like that. And my parents would give us kids the choice and they would say, hey, we don't We don't eat meat at home. If you want to try some, you can. And so, I've had chicken. I've had, I don't know, goat, lamb, whatever was over there. I've tried it, but over the years, it's just become something that, and it's not something that, it's not like this rule-based scenario where if I was to try some of your chicken, I would feel like it was violating my conscience or something like that. It's definitely more of a, you know, I want to be the healthiest person that I can. And, you know, this is, you know, the path that we've chosen is what we believe is the healthiest, you know, as far as we know. But of course, there's things that we're going to learn too, right? It's all, it's, it's a learning learning, growing experience.

Yeah, but okay, so when you guys are living in this tiny house, 400 square feet, 3 children, how, how, how do you have time to work on a computer to create Seed Time? How do you get some business done?

Oh man, it's a challenge. It's a challenge.

You're an entrepreneur, you're a stay-at-home dad, I'm an entrepreneur.

Um, so I work in the bedroom. The family— okay, the family is out in the living room. We're talking— I, I need to get my own office, really.

But how's that gonna happen? Like, in town?

No, no, we shed. Yeah, we're considering like getting a separate shed that we'd make into an office. Um, you know, eventually we'll— excuse me— eventually we'll build or I don't know, buy a larger place or something like that.

You work with your dad. Where, where do you and he meet?

Yeah, good question, because they are actually in transition right now to a new home as well. Um, so we would, uh, when we would do like webinars and live events and stuff, we would go up to my parents' place and then they moved.

And so that's where we had a webinar with you? You were at your dad's? Okay.

Yeah.

Does he normally get on the webinars with you?

A lot of them, a lot of them that we— I would say most of the webinars we do together.

For those that don't know, you launched a software that plans your garden. I mean, that will help you plan your garden.

Yeah.

And Rebecca and I got on board with it this year, and she really loves it. And she's the gardener. I'm the farmer. I'm the shepherd. Yeah, yeah. And that works good because she likes to eat the vegetables, I like to eat the meat. So yeah, you best put somebody in charge who likes it, you know. Yeah, because so she's in charge of it and she likes it. And what's one thing I like about it is she can plan it all out and then print out the honey to-do list. Yeah, you know, she can print out the weekly checklist of what we're supposed to do that week. I remember when we first started out, we had to, uh, organize the garden. And, you know, we're just writing it out manually, and it would probably take a week or so. Yeah, of planning the garden. And then the complication part was when you actually get to the field, and if you need to plant in this row versus that row, or if you get a week behind, well, then you're like erasing and marking things out and starting all over, really.

Right.

But with SeedTime, it's just a click of a button. So I am interested though, because you guys were manufacturing coffee pots at some point. Oh, and then SeedTime took off. So what else were you trying though at this time? Was that it?

That was it at that time. Yeah. So I had—

what are the chances you come in here and the one thing you were piddling with is in my studio.

I couldn't believe I walked in here. I was like, that is— that's our electric kettle over here.

I'm gonna have to get this coffee pot to show everybody.

Yeah, well, it's too bad they can't get one now. Yeah, it's done. We sold out. Limited edition, the one stainless steel coffee situation.

The lid, see, is stainless steel.

And it's not just— so what happens with a lot of them is the, the lid here, they would put stainless steel— well, they put stainless steel in the middle here. Yeah. But it would be plastic all on the edge.

I see.

And so purists, yeah, didn't like that because you've got the steam and it's just broiling against the plastic or whatever. So anyways, what we did is we remanufactured the lid and pulled that stainless steel Are you a purist? So yeah, well, I like to consider this.

How's this go on your radar? Are you crazy for coffee? You didn't even want coffee this morning. Yeah. Most people come here at this hour and you need a whole mug.

Yeah. The funny thing is, we— I don't drink coffee, so we use it for tea.

Yeah.

Teas.

And it's— it up fast.

It's also— I mean, there's— they're so versatile for Um, you want a piece of that?

Yeah. All right, it's going up on eBay. We're starting it at 99 cents. Link in the description. It's the only— you can't buy them anymore, so we're gonna auction it off on eBay.

Popular Japanese brand. I won't mention that you have to replace the seal about every 2 years. Oh really? Is that right?

We gotta get you a mic too, Matt. He's saying he's got a Japanese product where the seal wears out.

Well, maybe we'll have to—

So were you just stealing that then? Yeah, right. He was just getting it out of the shot. Okay.

Well, I forget where we're—

Well, we were talking about your entrepreneurial adventures, so You sound like you're coming from an angle of what's the problem?

Yeah.

Is that right?

Yeah, it is. Because what happened was it began with my uncle who started an organic farm. Then my dad partnered with him. He invited my dad to come join him, and our— the two of our families ran the farm together. We grew 50 to 70 different varieties of vegetables, herbs, berries. And it was small-scale intensive vegetable production, Elliot Coleman style. I mean, he was like the mentor, right? So we were reading his books, eventually we went up and visited his farm, et cetera. And so I spent many years working with the family business and then I just didn't feel like that was my calling. I didn't feel called into commercial farming. And so, I really enjoyed teaching. I had a bit of web design tech knowledge. So, I ended up counseling with someone who now is my father-in-law, and he said, hey, why don't you go into teaching gardening online? And so, long story short, that's what I did. I started teaching people how to grow their own food more on a home scale, homestead level instead of the commercial scale. And that was back in 2013. And we did that for many years and SeedTime was birthed out of that. But I would say the seeds from it come all the way back from that experience on the farm because I remember one of the first things my dad and my uncle started an apprenticeship program and they put us kids through the apprenticeship program. And one of the things that we had to do was figure out how to do crop rotation with the crops and figure out where the crops were gonna go and which crop was gonna follow the other one. And we had all these 3x5 cards and it just gets really complicated really fast, especially when you're doing a lot of different crops, right? And so, from early on, I knew that crop planning can be extremely complicated. And then when I started teaching people how to grow their own food, it came up as something that, it's stressful, it's overwhelming to try and figure out what should I do? When should I do it? How do I figure out my crop plans? And so, yeah, going back to what you said, you know, identifying a problem, that was the problem. And, and the way that it actually began was my dad and I, so my dad and I have, he's been involved with my teaching business from the beginning. We have actually a membership where he and I will do a live meeting once a month with our, we call them our elite. Group of gardening students. And we promised our students, we said, hey, we'll create a weekly checklist for you of what you should do in your garden for each week based on your location. And I had some ideas of how we could like pull this off just in my head. But at the same time, I think it was a bit of, I don't think we even maybe fully understood the complexity of what we were promising our students. So I had these ideas and I was like, okay, but now once you promised it, 'cause it was a bonus to like purchasing our gardening course or being a part of our gardening membership that we were like, hey, as a bonus, we're gonna add this on. It's gonna make your life easier, right? And then—

Very easier if you pulled that off.

Yeah, and then it was like, man, How are we actually going to pull this off? Because every location is different with gardening, right?

Everyone has different frost dates, different zones, you know, they have different vegetables they might want to grow too. Very true. Tastes and market. Yeah, because these are for market farmers or these for home—

this was for home gardeners, this was for home gardeners, homesteaders. Yeah, so once we made that promise, um, it eventually came down to fulfillment, right? How are we going to fulfill this? And I remember just spending hours scouring the web for some kind of program that I could use to help with this process. And eventually I landed on a third-party calendar platform called TeamUp, and I contacted them and we negotiated and they were extremely helpful for us. And if anybody wants like a team calendar, go check them out because they're a great team calendar platform. And we— they ended up letting us create multiple— I mean, we had like 26 different calendars that were built out for different locations. We put in all of these crops and succession plantings of the crops. And then what we did is we would have the user find the calendar that matched their frost dates for their location. And then they could go on the calendar and they could choose the crops from a list and it would drop them into the calendar and it would show when to seed them, when to transplant them, expected harvest time. There was a little task list that kind of populated from that. At the same time, well, so the first time that we released those calendars to the community, the, the community just went wild. The chat, yeah, the chat blew up and people were just so excited. They're like, man, this is incredible. We love this.

Um, that didn't account for garden size though, did it?

It didn't, no. Yeah, and it, and it had significant limitations in that we put in these suggested planting times, but people couldn't move them around. You know, it was very, um, kind of locked in place. However, it was a proof of concept. and the people in our community, you know, already, there was enough value with them that they were already super excited about it. But I mean, as soon as we launched them and we saw the feedback, we saw the response, we said, hey, you know, at some point we've gotta create our own app that makes it easy for people to do this, but then have it be adjustable so people can fine-tune their garden plan. You know, you forget to seed your lettuce one week. Well, make it so that people can move it over to the next week, right? And have it auto recalculate everything.

Yeah.

For you.

Or lettuce gets destroyed or the kids plant it in the wrong bed or you plant it in the wrong bed or the internet goes out and you guess which one was the right bed.

Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that's where SeedTime was birthed out of. And it was actually COVID, the whole COVID fiasco that ended up spawning the birth of Seed Time because the interest in gardening just kind of skyrocketed. And we ended up—

Is that still jamming? Seed time or the COVID craze?

The COVID craze. It's definitely, um, it's definitely flattened out. Yeah, it was more— yeah, it was more just like that one, that one year, this especially the spring of what was it, 2020 and 2021.

2021 would have been nuts. Yeah, so what do I call these now? COVID gardens, all these abandoned gardens. Yeah, we need to get into a— you know, there was the There was the survival— what was it during the World War II? The Victory Gardens. Yeah, and everybody had a garden. We need like a Thrival Garden or some reason to have a garden in good times.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, because you know everything goes bad and then people are like, man, we got to grow our own food, but then it's usually too late. I mean, It's too late, you know.

Food takes time to grow, and that's what's happening. You know, people got into homesteading because of it, and— or gardening or whatever, and then it's so hard.

Yeah.

And you're too late. And so you're doing all this work and you're just learning, and you're not getting much of reaping. You're not reaping much of what you sowed because you suck. Yeah, yeah, you gotta suck for a while. You got to put in that time.

Yeah, and hopefully we can shorten that process. Yeah, so you can become a, become a pro, uh, faster. But you know, we all are going to have the experience of learning from trial and error.

I don't think you could, um, you know better than I do because it's your business, but somebody might like me, could you— could have another tier. So you have your— most homesteaders are going to want to do it themselves. That's, that's mostly how they are. That's why they're homesteading, uh, not necessarily for health. I mean, we'll maybe go back to that in a minute, but it's more of a, I want to do everything myself, I want to provide all my own needs.

Yeah.

And so they're going to want to learn how to use this software and do it themselves. But there will be people who say, well, I just want to, I want a consultant for an hour to, to help me make my plan.

Yeah.

So there's that person who will pay much more money for that one hour because they value their time versus the typical homesteader who will spend 8 hours figuring it out themselves, who don't necessarily value their time so much. And then, uh, but then, then there's the person who will say to go even further, who really values their time, and say, these are the vegetables we like to grow. They want to fill out a short survey and then they want you to give them the plan.

Do it for me.

Yeah, but you're going to have to charge a lot of money for that. Yeah, but, but you might— you, I mean, consider adding some tiers. I mean, we've had some grand success always having some tiers. Yeah, where you're already marketing one thing, you're marketing Seed Time. You do already have— you had at least 2 tiers on that webinar.

We do.

But there's people that always want to go the next level.

Yeah, we don't, we don't have that done for you, um, or—

but that's tougher. I mean, you have to train people to help in, in consulting, but that's a, that's another level because we're going to have to win the war against conventional agriculture with convenience. That's how it's going to have to win. We're going to have to get in people's phones and people are going to have to be able to order, um, healthy things on an app and it be delivered within 2 hours, right?

Yeah.

That's how the sustainable, the regenerative ag is going to beat big ag. We're going to, we're going to have to be the Ubers of what Ubers did to taxis and what Airbnb did to hotels.

Yep.

Um, Somehow farmers are gonna— or any homesteader could have an excess of cucumbers and somehow put it on a market to be delivered to their neighbor 30 minutes away. Somehow. Yeah, I don't have that answer. I hope somebody takes this idea and goes with it and does it.

Yeah, absolutely.

So they— I saw a— some member in my membership area posted a picture of an old magazine article, or it had a layout of a garden, and it showed you exactly what to plant here. Here's the exact thing that appeals to me some ways, but I do realize, well, I've got 6 raised beds. My, my crop garden has to be this size. Nobody— it's, it's hard to get every— it would be hard to get everybody, even a 50-foot by 20-foot plot necessarily, you know what I mean?

Yeah.

Somebody might be in a development and they might need to have raised beds for HOA reasons or something.

Yeah.

They might be on a slope. Yep.

Yeah.

So your seed time is on it because people can do different things.

Yeah. And you know, I think one of the also the things with that is a lot of these plans that have just like a pre-built, and we even have a little plug-and-play garden plan that we have available, right? Where you do, um, yeah, we do actually, uh, where, you know, it has it kind of mapped out. There's two aspects of it. One is your garden space may be totally different, right? Different bed layout, different bed setup. But the other thing to it with it is that a lot of those layouts, they're just going to have one planting of all of those crops laid out, right? And what happens— oh yeah, what happens with a lot of people is they, they do that and they just have one planting and garden become— the garden just becomes this seasonal thing where it's, yeah, I planted everything in the spring, I harvested it in the summer, and then it's done. And you don't have— but what we're finding is that a lot of people love—

I'm only going to push this a little closer because of the machine.

Yeah, so we're—

that's giving me thumbs up. Very cool. Whoa, he revved it!

Here he goes. So, um, we're finding that a lot of people have loved the concept and the idea of having a continual harvest out of their garden. Yeah, they want to be able to replace the grocery store with their garden, kind of what you guys were talking about wanting to do this year too, right? And In order to do that, if you want to eat vegetables consistently all year long, it can't just be a spring planting and then I'm done. There has to be succession plantings.

Yeah.

Or sometimes I call them leapfrog plantings where you have one crop that goes in, when it's coming out, you have another one that's coming in in its place. And that whole concept of and planning process is another level of complexity, because now you're dealing with time as well as space, and each crop is going to be in the ground a different length of time, right? And knowing when the next one is going to go in and getting it started early enough so that it's ready to be transplanted if you're going to transplant it in, etc., etc., etc. So that is where we see, uh, really the ultimate extreme power of SeedTime coming in is being able to help someone plan those succession plantings and create a plan that becomes part of their lifestyle where, you know, we took our farming experience where we're seeding something almost every week, right? And said, hey, you can just scale that down to your garden. And as long as you have a little checklist that's keeping you on task, like, you know, if you can make out your garden plan in a calendar and then you have a checklist that helps you track it, It doesn't take that long to seed a few plants of kale, right? And if you just have a small amount of time each week, you go and you do that, you can set up this continual harvest and it can make it a lot easier.

Yeah, I remember when I first started gardening, I remember— this is a confession, really— because I remember thinking, can I plant after I just had no idea. Like, people have no idea. I had no idea. And people listen to this, some of them have no clue. I seriously wondered, I grew something, could I plant something after it in that same season? And that's exactly what you're talking about. You're— yeah, and gardeners call it succession planting. I didn't know at the time that's what it was called, and we didn't have Mr. Google Pants to you could go on there and ask that now, and it— you would ask Mr. Google, how do you— can I plant after crops in the same year?

Yeah.

And you're probably going to learn from Mr. Google Pants that that's called succession planting.

Yeah.

So for whatever that's worth, um, And what you're talking about here is you can— you grow these cold hardy crops in the spring. So you grow onions and cabbage and collards and kale, God forbid. Even you vegetarians surely don't like— you don't like all the vegetables. Surely.

I love kale.

Okay. You like kale?

Kale?

No. Feed it to the pigs.

You're so funny. No, but you gotta, you gotta get like—

there's one vegetable you don't like. Please tell me.

Let me think of a vegetable that I don't like.

Celery?

Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of raw celery.

All right, you still gain credibility. If you're about to tell me you like every single vegetable, you've lost me.

Yeah, we got to be authentic, right? I mean, cauliflower? I do like cauliflower.

Okay.

If you, if you roast it, like if you roast cauliflower with like a breading, uh, okay.

Oh man, see, now you've probably gotten really good at making vegetables. Yeah, one, one friend I had, he did say you don't have any bad ingredients, you just have bad recipes. So fair enough, you know. Uh, we learned that with zucchini. If you— so I do like low-carb fruits like zucchini. A lot of people consider that a vegetable, but it's not. It's a fruit.

Yes.

So it wants to be eaten. And we learned that, you know, if you do noodles— and we don't do grains, so we're low carb— and so we try zucchini noodles. Well, it usually gets runny. But we've learned if you slice some lasagna style and put them in the dehydrator, okay, yeah, then you can use it as a lasagna or then turn it into a noodle. And it doesn't leave a plate half water.

Interesting. Yeah. Yeah.

So what's a good, what's a good vegetable recipe? What's the best thing? What do you look forward to the most if it's on for dinner? Wow.

Yeah. Now we're getting into favorite foods. That's a hard call. I like if I, one of the first things that came to my mind just in the vegetable realm is I love roasted vegetables. Sweet potato fries. Really, any— you can do tons of different types, beets. I'm not a huge fan of roasted carrots, but I like potatoes, beets. You can throw broccoli on there. You can throw cauliflower in there. You can do all kinds of roasted veggies. Those are really good. Other meals that I really enjoy, man, a lot of stuff.

Yeah, you can ask my wife.

I'm very hard. It's very hard for me to just come up with like my favorite foods.

Okay, so like popcorn. Is the wife going nuts in 400 square feet with all the kids?

Yes.

Trying to cook.

Oh man.

I mean, ask how you get your business done, how you do seed time. How does she cook?

Yeah, yeah.

So I mean, the little kids, they're little kids.

They're little. Yeah. 5 and under. Natasha does really well, really well for the space that we have. And it's, it's been something that it's been an adjustment over time. And we would not— it would not be authentic at all to tell you that it's just been peaches and cream.

No, you would lose it. You would lose all credibility.

Yes. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, so I mean, we've definitely had our challenges and struggles. Our kitchen is actually set up quite nice. So it hasn't necessarily been the pain point, just except for the fact that it's small enough that you put anything on the counter and immediately the kitchen looks like it's—

The spoon is out and it's a mess.

Yeah, it's a mess, right? So that's kind of a bummer. But other than that, it's enough space to easily cook, and at least for one person. Two people in there, it gets a little crowded.

We lived in a 280-square-foot bus.

Okay.

You got it messy easy, but you cleaned it up easy too.

That's true. Yeah.

Yeah.

Fast. Fast to clean up for the most part.

Did you always want to stay at home? As like, as a stay-at-home dad?

Stay-at-home dad.

That's not normal.

Yeah, yeah, good question.

I mean, it's not even normal nowadays that the woman stay at home.

Yeah, that's true.

And now there is this, at least among my friends, we're even trying— I had an idea to be home. I wanted to be home with the kids too.

Yeah, yeah, I did, I did as well. I had never, I never had a desire or dream to be off working away from the family.

Yeah, why not? And where do you think that came from?

I think it was something that grew over time, and I think part of it was especially as we came into our teen years, you know, that's close to when we moved to the farm. Yeah, I was in my mid-teens when, when my family moved to the farm. And I actually went to an academy for last couple years, but I was on the farm in the summers and then I moved back and just went straight into working with the family business. And there's something really special about working together as a family. And there's, as I thought about having my own family, Hey, get in, get in.

You got to play quiet. Thank you, my man.

There's something very special about the— I have a real value. I want to be a part of my kids' life, right? I want, I want to be a part of their educational experience. I want to be a part, and I really want to build a close bond and relationship with them. And I feel like one of the best ways to do that is to to spend life together.

Right.

And so that is a huge part of wanting to work from home, live from home. I actually spend— I mean, with SeedTime right now, I spend too much time on the computer. I want to—

how much?

I want to take that ratio. And well, one of the challenges with SeedTime right now is that it has grown quite quickly. And so in that scaling process, you know, it takes more, you know, you have a lot more people coming on and using the platform. You got more support for it. We're doing more marketing for it, et cetera.

How many members did we send you?

Ooh, did you send us total? Last time I looked, it was over 1,700-some.

So what kind of growing pains did that cause, or were you totally ready?

We were pretty ready at that. Well, good question, because right after, right after—

1,700 people, that's a lot of people.

Yeah, right after our event with you all, our customer service— we have a girl that works customer service with us— she went on vacation, I believe it was, and we had a new girl that was coming in. Oh no, trying to train her on And we had a conference we were going to, and so it was kind of wild. This spring has been a little bit wild.

But you had to tell everybody, just give us a week.

Yeah, we put a little vacation, not a bit, it's called a vacation responder, but just the autoresponder that was like, hey, we've got a lot of people coming in to see Time right now. You're super important to us. We will get back to you.

Well, I noticed you closed on the Sabbath. Too, when we launched, which then made me wonder— it made me wonder and think maybe you were keeping the Torah because you were, um, well, you're not supposed to buy and sell on the Sabbath. So is that a Sabbath? Is that an Adventist thing too?

Yeah.

Or is that just your personal choice to find rest?

Yeah, it's a— it's an Adventist thing as well.

Okay.

Um, and it's basically Again, it's kind of going back. I like to put it in these terms: looking for principles that apply across time— biblical principles and guidelines, and so when we go back, and we see the Ten Commandments, we feel like those were commandments that were not just tied to a set people, time, and space, but you know the Sabbath was instituted at creation, it was, you know, re-spoken, as you were, in the Ten Commandments, but it's actually pointing— you know, the Ten Commandments were pointing back to a Sabbath that was instituted back when Adam and Eve were created, even before sin, and then, you know, going forward, obviously Jesus kept the Sabbath when he was here as well, and, you know, there's scripture references to keeping the Sabbath in heaven, So we see it as a, you know, more of a broad eternal principle versus just a law that was for a time and a space, if that makes sense.

Do you— how many hours a day do you spend on seat time? You're saying you spend too much time on the computer?

Yeah.

How much is that?

Too much. Right now, recently I've been working overtime, so probably I'm gonna say 8 to 10.

Okay, 8 to 10 hours a day.

10 hours a day.

Okay, so it's hard being a home entrepreneur too. The office is always right there.

Oh man, yeah, yeah. And like I said, like, my goal is to cut that way back and have a lot more time.

Well, what's stopping you right now?

It's, uh, building a team.

Okay. And do you know how to build a team?

It's my first time. Yeah, we're finding it out. We're figuring it out.

Learning that too.

Uh, yeah, you know, you got to start somewhere, right? And so, um, we— I mean, you met Luke. Luke came, was on your vlog earlier. He is awesome.

Luke's the one that nailed me for y'all.

That's right.

Yeah, yeah, that's a good teammate, bud.

He, he has been a huge part of our team, started with us last year and, you know, he's on into this year.

What he is— he's done so much for marketing.

Yeah. And connecting, you know, connecting with influencers like you all, connecting with other businesses. How do you structure that?

Don't mind asking because I'm trying to hire a marketing person and hire somebody to do affiliate for Abundance Plus.

Yeah.

Yeah. So is that, here's you a full-time job or a part-time job and this is what you get paid or do you work out commission or what do you do?

Yeah, with him we work out, uh, he's currently on a salary as well as a commission.

Okay.

So he has an incentive to Being entrepreneurial myself, I want to build a team of entrepreneurs.

Okay.

I don't want to build a team of people that just have an employee mindset where I just do my own thing, right? So I want everyone to be incentivized on our team, just like I'm incentivized with the business, right? To, to push it forward, to push the limits, etc., etc. So, um, that's good. Yeah.

How do you do that? Yeah, and I think about it that way with my kids. I want them to be around. I'm not automatically assuming that they're going to leave. Yeah, they're going to get out of the house, you know what I'm saying? But they're not going to leave this farm. I mean, I'm not going to assume that. I'll support them if that's what they end up wanting to do, um, which has involved a mindset of a team of entrepreneurs out of my children. Like, I'll support you in what you're doing. Yeah, the boys and their airsoft, Lily and her horses. But how are we going to build business around it? She's talking about boarding, she's talking about doing lessons. We're making content, you know, that's what I know. So I'm producing for them, yeah, making content on stuff that has nothing to do with homesteading, but it's their own thing. Here.

Yeah.

But I want to talk about building a team of entrepreneurs. Yeah, that makes sense. So then Luke can be his own boss, work from home, have his kids around.

Yeah. I mean, he's got a, he's got a working farm. He farms.

Okay. So this is, so he does other things.

Yeah.

That's an advantage of the entrepreneur. You, you can do other things if you want. So you also, you give him a base, so there's a minimum requirement from him then?

Yeah, so we have a, like I said, we have a, he last year we actually, we were actually just contracting with him and then this year he's come on as an employee on salary and I mean he's the kind of guy that just he goes the extra mile so it's not something that we are, yeah, you know, How do you find that guy? He found us, actually.

Okay, so, um, that's how you find the guy. That's how you find— you is the guy that you want being your marketer. That's right, because they're aggressive and they go after you, right? And they follow up, right? And all that. Yeah, yeah, that defeats the point if you're going out to find the marketer. The marketer needs to be knocking down your door.

Exactly.

Now that's a good marketer, right?

Yeah, and if they love what you're doing enough that they're going to come after you, you know, because that, yeah, it makes a big difference. Um, so, and to be honest, yeah, we have not yet done any major, like, prospecting. We have a lot of people that reach out to us that would like to work with us.

Um, so he came to you saying, I can, I, I can sell this? Some has just been worked through word of mouth because he can sell, because he sold, he sells represented and sold other things. So he's saying, oh, I think I could do something with seat time.

Yeah.

And did he come out with you with this? Did you even have to come up with the base salary commission or is he pitching something?

I would say that it was something that we worked with. It was a teamwork together that we figured out. Yeah.

So he charged, so that's been good then. So your main marketing revenue, avenue is affiliates.

We do a lot of paid advertising as well.

Are you successful there? Who manages those?

We have another company that we actually contract with who does the— so I do a lot of— right now I do a lot of the actual marketing content. So shooting our ad videos and stuff like that is something that is still on my plate, something that I'd like to move off to. So I need to find another marketer like you.

So you don't want to— be the face anymore?

No, I would, I would still continue to be the face, but I'd like to find someone that would actually, um, and actually we do have someone that we're employing right now that is going to do some more video editing for us. But, you know, like the video editing side of things, scheduling emails, building out our web pages for our events and stuff like that, that's something that, um, one thing I've had success—

you have a big enough audience, you have enough people in SeedTime is— this is at least how I find my editors, and I'm working on finding marketers this way. Yeah, is I put— I wanted another editor, we needed a backup editor. I uploaded the vlog footage and I splattered to the audience, hiring an editor, $500 win best at it.

Nice.

And a chance to work with our team. You got 24 hours. So everybody got the same footage. It was so fun because everybody got the same footage and we got at least a dozen, if not 20, a couple dozen entries and takes. It's like, you know, AI before AI editing, you know? I mean, AI editing is not there yet, but. Right, yeah. It's like the crowd. Yeah, crowdsource. Editing, and I had all these different versions in 24 hours, you know, while I slept or made another video.

Yeah.

And we picked, picked one, and I mean, it was so good that, yeah, he was able to join the team. And we had only promised $500 to a winner.

Yeah.

And, you know, that relationship has developed, and they keep doing the vlog and then doing some filming, and then all of a sudden they're, they're moving here and I'm gonna have a shooter.

That's awesome. Yeah, I love it.

So consider that I've done that from 8 years ago when I didn't even know how to edit.

Uh, yeah, I should shoot it out and say, hey, I've done— build me a webinar funnel with all the pages.

Where you're trumping me is, uh, I need to be in the affiliate space. I need an affiliate manager to be growing us in that way. I need to— I feel like to grow Abundance Plus too, we ought to expand outside of just homesteading. Yeah, into hunting, cooking, homeschooling. Very relatable stuff, but health, but are much bigger industries.

Yeah, the other related skills.

Yeah, and, and things that wouldn't forsake the current member, right? A current member would be excited about a health series or a hunting series or a homeschool series, cooking. But we could reach a new market. And then ads— we're just figuring that out too, though. Yeah, there's the 3 big things, and you're missing the first one, I think. Do you know what it is? Organic.

Yes.

Social. Yeah, you guys start posting.

Yeah, we do this year.

It's free.

It's true, it's free.

You have to pay for it. You're getting You're giving Facebook all that money, come on.

I know, I don't wanna, you know, we—

I don't mind you giving Luke that money, right? I don't mind that at all, right? Like giving a guy, a hustler, some commission and some partners, some other people with similar concepts.

Oh man, yeah, I know. I don't like giving money to Facebook and Google either. We'd love to, you know, there's different aspects of it. One is diversification.

Yeah.

So like, you know, I don't know if we'll ever stop paying for ads unless we just decide that it's like if it gets to the point where like I can't ethically pay for ads on Facebook anymore. Yeah, something like that.

But, but it's working for you. You're getting positive ROI.

We are. Yeah, it's worked very well, actually.

Why can't you just put the gas on that? I can't understand that, you know, because we've been doing paid ads for several months and they positive ROI, but it's like we can't just put the gas on.

Yeah, so what happens is it's a bidding system, right?

Yeah.

And Facebook is, so you think of it like a pool of people.

Mm-hmm.

And Facebook, you know, there's this segment that is gonna be the most interested. Yeah. And so Facebook is constantly trying to figure out what that segment is. That's gonna be most interested, and that's gonna be a set number of people. I mean, you know, it's a bigger level. And then as soon as you get beyond that, Facebook is trying to find more people from the general population that would still be similar, and so your ad costs start going up. Now, the more that you scale and the bigger that Facebook understands your demographic and your— your audience, etc. You can continue, like we've scaled way higher this year than we did last year, and some of that is probably relative to just Facebook understanding us better, but some of it is probably also to, you know, we've improved our marketing funnels and And SeedTime has evolved as well. You know, we, we now have the layout portion of SeedTime where people can visually lay out their garden, which was released last year. But this is our first spring season going into it.

Yeah.

With that. So, yeah, good for you. There's multiple factors with it.

And you get somebody to manage. You have an agency managing your ads?

We do. Yeah. A friend of mine has an ad agency.

That's handy.

Yeah, it is.

Is he taking on any more clients?

His agency? Yeah, probably.

Yeah. Um, and then, oh, the organic. Yeah, we need a social.

We need to do more.

You have a fascinating life. I mean, you're living in a 400-square-foot— I don't know if you want a personal brand, but either way, you, you can have a personal brand. Well, or not.

The thing is, it's so much easier it's so much more relatable to have a brand with a face behind it than to, um, than to just have a brand that's faceless.

I don't see why you can't start— at least you have it right here.

Just—

I'm gonna come in. I know, we gotta do 100. Do 100. Seth Godin says you got to do 100. Yeah, do 100 shorts. YouTube Shorts, just little tidbits of, you know, I, I put together one and you, you could have done this, you know, we were planting onions out there today, right? Well, there's steps to that. I mean, that's one angle of some content. Yeah. Hey, planting onions today. Step 1, you know, we bought these onion starts at blank at— I feel like the more specific and plan you can give them, the better. We bought them here. Step 2, we're soaking them in some water. At least if you have some fish fertilizer, I like this brand. Yeah, uh, put it in it at this ratio, soak them in it, pull the tarp off. Do you— don't use a grader, you use a rake to mark your line? A bed rake?

Yeah.

And you easily have piece of content there.

Yeah, yeah.

I mean, Greg Judy goes out with his phone and it's, hey, this is Greg Judy. Today we're moving the cows from the old paddock to the new paddock. And it's just one shot on his phone uploaded to YouTube.

Yeah, man, I need to do it.

People are going to want you to be doing this by the time they're going to be looking for you. Does he have a— does he have a YouTube channel?

Do have a YouTube channel, and I have videos that are now like 3 years old because I was doing— I was, you know, I, I was like, we got to do the organic, right? So I, I started doing YouTube videos, and then it was too much for me to edit them and everything. So I now have a girl, a friend of ours, who is doing our Instagram Yeah. And finally, because I think when we did our webinar with you, our Instagram had like zero. I don't think we even had a post on there.

Wow.

But anyways, so she's doing consistent content on there right now. So we are, we're moving in the organic content.

I mean, you're paying somebody, you're paying Facebook to put out ads, so you might as well pay somebody to do some ads.

Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. So I needed to do that.

But that's it too. You gotta ask, well, do I even have to do edits? No.

What do you mean?

I mean, do Instagram stories.

Okay.

Do reels. Do YouTube Shorts.

Yep.

Hey, I think a lot of people are gonna start moving into there because it sounds, I don't know, I've heard the rumors that TikTok's going away and so a lot of people are on that and they're gonna be, they're gonna be coming to Shorts.

Yeah.

And, uh, yeah. And the side benefit of that is you get paid. YouTube's the only content platform I know of that, besides TikTok, that pays, and they pay a lot more than TikTok.

Yeah.

And maybe X does now. That might be something worth paying attention to.

Yeah, X is really more—

where it might go.

It's really changing.

Yeah.

I think there's, there's potentially a lot of, um, And I've heard that they may even go in the direction of just like micropayments. Like, you know, if you want to watch this video, it's 50 cents or something like that. Just like super, super small.

So very low barrier of entry, but just as opposed to like the monthly fee type structure. Yeah, it, it's, it could be going somewhere. So I'm paying attention to that and I'm posting there.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because nothing has done more good for us than just organic, just being ourselves. This is what we're doing, documenting it. Here we go.

That's— yeah, we need to do that.

Yeah, it's a good takeaway. You, you, you— when we did that webinar together, I was impressed with how well you did.

Well, thank you.

Selling and but not being overbearing with it. The website looked good. You did a good job You hired the company that built Calendly to build Seaton, and you can tell, like, it's well put together, intuitive.

I do not have enough good to say about their company. Yeah. Yeah. It's called Railsware and, uh, they're a development company. And, uh, like you said, they, they had Calendly hired them. I was just with talking with the guy the other day all the way until they had— they had 10 developers from that company building Calendly before Calendly started pulling in their own, like building their own in-house team.

Oh, wow.

Just super dialed in processes and really integrate into the business. So they really integrate into our business and really understanding SeedTime and what we're doing and where we're going with it and stuff like that. Really awesome. Awesome to work with them. Brilliant. I mean, the stuff that they've done, you know, on our perspective, like we just tell them what to do, right? We say, hey, this is what we want and they build it, but they've built like brilliantly. Like, I don't know how they connect the crops to the layout so that, you know, you slide across and they disappear and they show and all that kind of stuff because I'm not, I'm not a developer, but They've done an amazing job.

Yeah, I mean, it looks simple, but the most complicated developments are the things that interface simply.

Yeah.

So they've done a good job and you did a good job there. And you seem to have a natural or hard-earned sense of marketing and business.

I would say it's a hard-earned sense. Yeah, I was— I'd never considered myself a marketer in any line. Like, I was never— it was not a natural— like, I'm not a natural salesman. I've done door-to-door sales before, and it, it just, it does not come naturally to me. Like, I'm not someone that would just— but it's something that has been a learned skill over time. And, you know, Sales and marketing, some people can look at, some people kind of get a little queasy with sales and marketing. It's like, man, I don't want to sell people something or something like that, right? And obviously there are like sleazy salesmen, right? And you come away and you're like, man, that was just, I don't, yeah, I don't like that, right? And so, um, but at the same time, like any business business has to be able to get itself out in front of people and communicate what it's doing, the value of it, and provide an offer and, and call people to action and say, hey, you know, here's where you can get it, get it for this amount, etc. And it's been a real learning process.

Where did you learn that?

I learned it when I started. It started with a mentorship, actually. There was a friend of ours who had an online business and he was teaching people how to move to the country, what kind of properties to buy, what you should look at in country properties.

Sorry, I'm going to turn this down.

Yeah, I believe he still has the business. It's been a while since I've actually swung back around and connected with him, so I'm not sure if he's still running that same course, but So he had a decent size email list and following, and he knew how to market and do a webinar and do a sales pitch or offer at the end, et cetera. And so I asked him, I said, hey, I'm wanting to start teaching people gardening online, and basically said, hey, would you be interested in helping me get started or whatever? I don't remember exactly how that conversation went, but he came on and he mentored me and he said, hey, let's do it. We'll do the webinar for my audience, I'll affiliate with you. So I split commissions with him and he got us off, up and off the ground. And there's a whole lot more story to that. But then from there on, it was a combination of that mentorship with him as well as just buying marketing courses online and, and consuming the content and watching what other people do. I like to, you know, I like to say that I've told— I've said many times that a lot of what I do is just copying other people because, you know, you look and you see what other people are doing and what's working, and you don't, you don't want to like plagiarize them in that sense. But if you look and you see what other people are doing and what works and then take that and apply it to your own business, that's a lot.

I took a— I fashioned a whole sales page once from Neville I don't know his last name. Copywriting course was— he's a copywriter.

Okay.

And so I just looked at his sales page and like, he's, he, he knows how to write copy for a sales page.

That's right.

And just used it as a template.

Yeah. That's what I do. I mean, that's what I've done.

Why wouldn't you do that?

Yeah.

There's nothing wrong with that.

No, no.

I mean, it's not like you're copying it word for word. You're just, you're just getting the heart of it and, oh, he started with a story here.

Exactly.

He's leaning into a problem right here. Oh, and then he's bringing in a solution. Oh, and he's saying, I'm gonna be your guide and take you through that. And, um, yeah.

And you know, a lot of those guys, they create frameworks for their sales pages, right? And they'll, they'll, um, say, okay, these are the 7 things that we're gonna guide people through, and it's gonna start with the story, and then we're gonna hit the problem, and then we're gonna, you know, and they'll create that framework and then You know, once you kind of learn those frameworks and you can learn it just by reading this, the sales copy, or you can, you know, sometimes they'll— if you join one of their courses or something, they'll give you a framework and then you just kind of— you can craft your own.

Yeah.

Along those lines, you get—

okay, one of the ways is so when we even just casually mentioned SeedTime to our audience, they perked up and stepped up and went and got it. And so that's one way we test things too. We like it.

Yeah.

But just my audience. But then when I see through a test, the audience leaning into this, I then lean into it and push it to them.

Right.

Because, well, that's just proving it's good and I feel like I can get behind it.

Mhm.

I can get behind it, one, if I believe in it, but it's— that's not even enough, right? Because there's things I, I, I, I, I, you know, I'm, I'm reading a book on Alex Honnold free soloing El Capitan. I'm not going to— I really love that and enjoy that, and we— I mountain bike with the kids, but I'm not necessarily going to push it on my audience, right?

Right, right. Yeah.

Hey everybody, go buy Alex Howell's book. Yeah, that's right. I believe in the book, but I'm not really going to— but you know, I might mention it in an email, you know, in one of my Five Point Fridays.

Yeah.

And if I notice people swarming to that and just really relating to and attacking it, well then, okay, maybe I need to pay attention. So this is what happened with Seed Time. So then besides that, it's a great product is what I'm saying. And people can see the benefit. How did you do $300,000 on Kickstarter?

Yeah, so that was a, a culmination of many years learning marketing. Um, because see, we started— I started teaching people how to grow their own food online in 2013, and we did that Kickstarter in 2021.

Okay, okay.

So, you know, there's many years in there of learning the process of online marketing. And then for the Kickstarter, because Kickstarter is its own little world, it's not just the regular—

it was sweet timing looking back, 2021. Everybody—

yeah, yeah, it was gardening. Yes. Yeah, it was very— now that would say providential. Yeah, definitely not, not planned. Um, but Kickstarter is its own little ecosystem, right? It's not just the regular online marketing platform. And so I actually found a company that launches products on Kickstarter and I wanted them to launch SeedTime. I asked them to do it and they refused. They said apps are too hard. We only deal with physical products because we don't like doing software. And I said, okay, well, they had a course Oh, and their course walked through the process of how they—

which was a lot cheaper than hiring them.

Yeah, it was a lot cheaper than hiring them, but it was still like $4,000. I mean, you know, it's a decent investment. But when you look at, you know, potential returns, you invest. You invest in the course and you say, OK, how am I going to do this? And so they're called LaunchBoom. And I would— I mean, I'll throw their name out because if anyone is interested in launching, hey, go check them out. They're an excellent source. For launching something on, on Kickstarter. And so I went through their course, I used their framework, applied it to SeedTime, and that's how we launched out. And basically what it is, is you, you get a group, you advertise, and you get a group of people that kind of pre-reserve. They'll put like a dollar down and say, hey, I'm really interested in this. And so I'm going to put a dollar down to get notified, to get the best deal when you launch on Kickstarter.

Yeah, I like that idea.

And then we built a community of those people and we coupled it with a multi-day garden planning live event that went over the exact same time as the launch. So we were teaching people how to plan their gardens. We were launching on the Kickstarter at the same time. We blended them together.

Multi-day event, though. Where was that held?

We did it online.

Who was the audience of all these pre-people?

Yes. Yeah.

And you did paid advertisement for those pre— Okay. Okay.

And we were actually able to do for those dollar reservations, we were able to do paid advertising to get the dollar reservation. And then we would upsell people on our gardening course and even this this multi-day event. So people could, and through that we were able to cover our advertising costs ahead of time, or most of them. So that was a nice thing. And then when you actually launch the Kickstarter, we have a group of highly interested people that are already interested in what we're doing, and that we've kind of already building a community around, and we did a live event like the day before it launched kind of, you know, gearing up for it and made a big thing about the launch. And, you know, we're going to offer lifetime accounts to, to it and stuff like that. And so then that's when we launched. It was funded in like 10 minutes and then just blew up.

Yeah, that's good. You want to get funding right away.

Yeah.

And then what, what did your dad say about all this?

Yeah.

Did he think you're nuts? Like Kickstarter concept, that's kind of nuts for somebody of that generation.

Yeah, no, you know, he has been 100% behind it the whole way. Yeah.

He got it. He understood the Kickstarter concept. Like you get money before it's built. Yeah. You had already built it.

We had built an MVP. Like a very minimal— well, I mean, we were finishing up the—

Minimal viable product.

That's right. Yeah. Minimum viable product. We were finishing up the minimum viable product as we launched the Kickstarter, so we were actually able to demonstrate with it and show people like what it was going to look like. I mean, anyone that's listening now, you can go find us on Kickstarter. Just look for— go to Kickstarter or Google SeedTime Kickstarter.

And that was my research on you, buddy, going in. It's all about the Kickstarter. Yeah.

Yeah. It's a good glimpse into our back history and Little story. Yeah. You can also see how far SeedTime has come because you can— in the video there, you'll see screenshots of our minimum viable product.

Yeah.

Before it looked nice.

Are we your number one affiliate yet?

You are. Yes. You took first place.

Yeah. All right.

Congratulations.

Yeah. Thanks.

Yeah.

We're going to keep blowing it out of the water.

Yeah.

It's not hard when the product's good.

You know, it's one of the most fun things about this product is that I genuinely get excited about it every single time we do a webinar and we share with it, which we've done a lot. We've done a lot of webinars.

Who lines up these webinars for you? Luke?

Yeah. Luke is doing most of them. Yeah. Okay.

Good. That's a good— well, are you wanting to get a— when you say we do a lot, are you wanting to get out of it? You want, you want to be not the guy that has to do the webinars?

I really enjoy it.

Okay, so you don't mind being in the face?

Yeah, I, I don't. And when do you do the webinar in that little house? No, we don't do them in the house.

Oh, that's right, you go to your dad's house.

Uh, that would be too much.

It'd be entertaining.

You're my kids crying in the background.

Once Rebecca and I had to— I accidentally went live on Instagram in my back pocket at bedtime. Oh no, it's a good thing we didn't lose our Christianity. We sort of did. There was yelling. There was yelling.

Oh no.

Where's the floss? You gotta— Imagine that with little kids. Because we were in your stage with the little, little kids.

Yeah. Yeah.

It's a weeping and gnashing of teeth sometimes, bedtime.

Yeah.

So imagine going live on Instagram at bedtime.

Oh, 100%.

Not knowing it.

Yep.

And then all of a sudden our landline's ringing and calling and we're like, we're ignoring it because we're putting kids to bed and they're like, that keeps happening. Let's go on. Prince would reach out, you know, you're live. And Beau said, tell Rebecca I hope she found the floss.

Oh no. Oh, what a nightmare. Yeah, something you look back on and laugh at, but at the same time, at the time it's happening, you're like, oh man.

No, I think this is the first time I've been bold enough to mention that, that that happened. Been, uh, kept swept that one under the rug for a while.

Yeah.

Uh, and then you're doing those webinars and you're the face. Okay. So, and you don't mind being the face. You're a young guy.

33.

Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, you know, I don't necessarily perceive it, see myself doing webinars for the perpetuity of SeedTime. You know, SeedTime is, I mean, we'll see where it goes. You know, it makes, there's a lot of room for growth with it. And, you know, our vision is to help as many people as possible grow their own food, you know, tying back to what we were talking about with health and all that. And so, you know, will I always be the face on the webinars of SeedTime? Maybe not. That's one of the advantages. It is something that I enjoy.

If you've grown mostly organic like I have, it's gonna be harder to transition to not the face. Dave Ramsey's going through that right now. You know, he's wanting to retire and you can see him bringing on co-hosts and trying to switch it over. And from what I could tell, it seems like he's doing a really good job. Whereas like Zig Ziglar didn't do such a great job. I mean, when he died, it's pretty much, the company's pretty much gone, it seems like.

And I think one of the really smart things that he's doing is his co-hosts have their own podcasts that are building followings, like just for that co-host, right? So like Dr. John Delony, he's got people that just listen to the Dr. John Delony Show, and they may not be the same ones that have listened to the Dave Ramsey Show.

Well, it goes back to your concept of making, your staff entrepreneurs, having them be entrepreneurs.

Yeah.

That's how you're going to get them a sense of ownership. How do you get them to have a sense of ownership, but you can still be the ultimate shot caller?

Yeah. So, Sea Time is a private company, obviously. Luke has the commission. So he gets commission for the you know, his networking and the people that he brings into his network. So that obviously is one aspect, but we have a vision and it's something that we are currently figuring out right now. Yeah. And we are, we're learning obviously, like this is our first time to scale a business, but we have a vision of creating an environment that has that, that ownership and that in some way, somehow the entire team gets rewarded as the company's profits increase. And as you know, so everyone is working towards the same goal because whether I'm working customer service or whether I'm working marketing, I see I have a— I have skin in the game. Not necessarily that they'll own part of the company, but I have skin in the game that, hey, if we can get our revenue or our profit or whatever our goal is up to X, we're all going to make X bonuses or we'll do some type of profit share or something that would bring the whole team into an entrepreneurial mindset versus just an employee mindset.

Does it create a tension when they may have an idea to do a certain thing to grow the company or to do right because they have a stake in it As far as, you know, a commission or something, but you had to shoot it down. You have to shoot that idea down for some reason.

Yeah.

Do you ever see any friction there or is this just a fear I have that it's not gonna be realistic?

I guess we'll find out.

You haven't had it yet.

I mean, well, I would say.

So if you had a marketer that wanted to market, had a certain idea of, oh, let's reach people on Facebook. Facebook in this way, go into these, join these groups and, and, and reach out to these people. And you just, for some, you, whatever reason, you, you didn't want to go there and you didn't want to, and you had to say no.

Mhm. Yeah.

That could be demoralizing if somebody thought this is a grand idea to, to get them a big check.

Yeah. And I, I would say that it hasn't like not happened in the sense that we are primarily just focused on crops right now. And so it has been a conversation in our company already being plant-based ourselves, but reaching homesteaders, and Luke is on our team and he's not plant-based. And so he wants to put his chickens in Seedtime and he can, you can put animals and stuff in there. But it's been a conversation like, you know, do we build animals into the system or do we just provide a system where people can add them in if they're interested in it, right? And so we have chosen as a company so far to just focus on crop. And if people want to add animals in, we're not gonna, you know, we're not gonna keep you from doing that. Like that's your free choice and you can add those in, but it's not something that we currently promote.

Yeah, that would be a good example.

And so that's a, that's a good example because it is, it would, it is somewhere where, you know, we can have disagreements in the, in the context of our team. Um, and at the end of the day, sometimes we do, you know, as the owner of the business, I do have to, you know, my dad, myself, we're co-founders, the two of us, so we partnered, and we have to make a final decision of whether we go down that certain route or whatever. And I think a lot of it has to do with communication and understanding, like passing on our vision, even though it may not be what our employees want to do, but clearly communicating why we've decided what we've decided. And at the end of the day, either it will build mutual respect because now we both understand each other, and there's— at least there's an understanding. It's not just like, boom, we're not going to do that, and no, I'm not going to tell you why. At least there can be some understanding, or you can try and have some understanding there. But I could see potentiality at some point. Maybe it would be a situation where at some point someone wanted to do something, and we said no, and it became a big thing. Yeah, would you have to part ways? Maybe, I don't know.

So in that case, I think, yeah, when you started talking about that and when we were on our webinar, people were asking, is this going to come for homesteading? And, you know, it could be this whole permaculture design thing, but then, then now talking to with you and knowing your passion for health and, and for you translating that into plants, yeah, I could see how you would only want to take that so far. And so that would help you with an employee coming in knowing that. So it's good that you have a set of morals, boundaries that are going to be clear. So somebody coming in is going to know you're only going to want to go so far with that.

Yeah. Yeah. Which is really fun and interesting having this conversation with you because you've done the whole carnivore diet, right? Where you were just eating— Are you still doing that, like only meat, or you do both?

Uh, it's vast majority is—

vast majority. Yeah.

Uh, very few other things, some low-carb fruits and then some chocolate, dark chocolate.

Okay.

And, um, yeah, but probably less. I would say it's extremely low carb, so less than 40 carbs a day.

Yeah.

Yeah, more like 20. Yeah, yeah, it's just 2 meals a day, just 1 meal a day mostly.

Okay, yeah, yeah, the intermittent fasting. Yeah, that can have a lot of huge health benefits. Yeah, 100%. Yeah, so it's kind of interesting because we, we do envision Seed Time being a homestead tool, like not just, not just the crops but your beekeeping. Like one of the things we're planning to build this year is custom tasks and workflows where you can create an entire workflow for whatever you want and it could literally include anything. And so because we come at it from the health perspective that we do, but also because we do not, we don't come at it from a perspective of like we think that animal husbandry should be outlawed. Like, I mean, we even are interested in including animals in our own regenerative growing, right? Even though we don't eat them necessarily, but we want to include that in the system because we think, we believe that's part of the system that God made, right? That works together.

Well, you'd want the manure.

You want the manure and you want—

I'm trying to think of what you could get for the manure.

But with all of that, you know, we're perfectly comfortable, at least at this point in our conversations as a team, saying, hey, we can have help documents that say, hey, you know, we, We are plant-based. We, you know, for these reasons, we promote a plant-based diet. However, we recognize not everybody does that. And if you do want to add animals, like, here's how you can. You could add your chickens or add your, you know, whatever.

Okay.

Yeah.

Good. I'm going to say that folks have heard a lot about SeedTime here. I'm encouraging them to just get in there and try it. I'm going to leave the link for that. Down in the show notes.

Yeah.

Um, you got any tips for them as— do you have tips for them or ways they can explore it for themselves for the first time?

Yeah. So the easiest thing is to, number one, go get your free account.

Um, okay.

SeedTime has a free level that one of our core values and part of, you know, reaching as many people as possible is creating a level of SeedTime where literally anyone can jump in and get started growing their own food. So at the free level, you can grow any plant, any of the built-in crops and varieties that are in SeedTime. And then there's options to upgrade. So, you know, the easiest thing to do is just number one, go grab your free SeedTime account. There's a series of onboarding videos They're short videos that walk you through how to use the calendar, the task list, journal, and then they go into a little bit of the future of SeedTime. And so, you know, go through the onboarding series. There's options to upgrade if you want to upgrade, but jump in at the free level and there's a lot that you can do to really understand the platform. And then you can even go over to our help documents, which is down right next to their profile link in the menu, there's a link to the help documents. And we have at the top of them a series of, we call them quick start video guides, that again, just go into a little bit more depth and detail. And you go through those and you'll have the foundation to use CTM. Yeah.

Okay. You heard it folks. So I'll leave the link for that free, free trial down below. Yeah. All right. Thanks, Victor.

Well, it's not even, It's not even a— like, the free level isn't even free.

Free trial. It's like, not even like you have to get your credit card. It's just you're free forever. Okay.

No credit card required. All right, go grab your free account.

Yeah. Okay.