I Messed Up with My Kids

I messed up with my kids. I lose my patience. I'm distracted at times. I fuss. I yell. I don't always follow through and I'm not always the best example. I mess up. But I want so badly to be a good dad. So, I'm taking my sons along with 30-something other Guys camping, hiking, cold plunging all in the wilderness of Western North Carolina. But what does that have to do with messing up with my sons? Well, I didn't know exactly either until the end of this father-son retreat I'm calling Mighty Man Camp. And I did get some answers but it's not where I thought I would. Fathers, imagine this. You're late teen daughter, early 20s, gets interested in somebody serious and comes to you for the blessing. You then meet with this gentleman, you test him, and then you just can't give the blessing. As heartbroken as she is, and as much as her heart is saying yes to this guy, she then puts her trust, her faith, and her father. And by the way, she's legally an adult and walks away from this guy. She lets go and she's not sure there will ever be another chance. Unbelievable trust. That's the kind of trust my late mentor Steve Meeks had with his daughter and his sons. I want that in my own life. So, I thought, "Well, I don't want it for others." So, I grabbed some other guys from this audience and I grabbed 3 of Steve's remaining surviving sons to come and lead this retreat to tap into them for what they had with Steve. First, we've got to get acquainted with everybody and set up. And then we're going to tap into the Mixes secret. Get this beautiful group camp all to ourselves and already my soul is lifted. We are in the woods, and I'm in the woods with my boys. I've been feeling lately I should have had more. Your mom and I should have started early.

Her—

you could have 3 older brothers and sisters, and then there should be 2 between Gideon and Henry. We could have had 10 kids. Why aren't you gonna stay with us? I'm gonna run the farm, work. Homeboy's got a job. It's just— I mean, he's almost 18. He— there's nobody else his age gonna be here. There's 19 participants, 7 of them are men. So what does that leave? Is that 8 children? I'm not supposed to do math in public. That's off, isn't it? I feel like you're going to want the tote, but that's all right, I'll take it home. That's 12 children. 12 children. No, leave. No, take the tow. Okay, this is different. You're leaving. This is it, guys. We have to survive. Wait, you know, emergency call, you know how to do that. Campfire tables. Get this spot near the woods. All right, hopefully Josiah remembers how to do it. You guys want the tour? We got the giant bear box. We got the Abundance Plus 10 by 20 in case it starts raining and we need a community tent. Water. It's a little overkill, but we thought we might have Jonah, we thought we might have Henry. It's still overkill, but we know how to set it up. A 10-person tent with 3 people inside. And we got a wood stove to burn in there if we want to. You want to show them inside? Ta-da! Oh yeah, so if somebody forgets a tent, they can just camp with us. We got a red light cat, electric candle, little broom— that comes in clutch. Show you the Burn It Up Cooking Show setup. Pantry cabinet, trash can, cook stove, and portable mobile stove, and our phone charger. Hopefully getting some sun, getting some charge. Water on tap. And over there, the community living, right? The You boys want to go on a little adventure? When Josiah and I did our coming-of-age trip, just Josiah and I, we had a guide take us up here and go rock climbing. Right there. Even in the winter though, you can't see those rocks. Let's go. I'm kind of curious to see if they're climbable without ropes. Beginner's rock climbing pitch. Well, it's not climbable in cowboy boots. Gideon's going for it. There's an easier route over here. It's the old man route. Could even go over there and traverse if you can get to right there.

You sure?

Boots, Josiah? Down, Pop! Oh, I feel so much more grip. That could be you if you don't be careful. Well, I made it up to about there and then chickened out. The boys made it further, but they're gonna walk around, come down. Down's harder than up, but I'm close enough that I think I can get down. I could probably slide at this point. Pre-solo in cowboy boots, huh, bud? Yeah, is it easier barefoot? Oh yeah, okay, well, we're all still alive and well. Shall we go burn it up cooking show flashback to 100 miles? Austin, look at this. Oh, let's try the bathroom, huh? Oh bro, it did literally turn up into the burn it up cooking show. I forgot to turn this down when I simmered it. Think it'd be all right? Yeah, in the middle. Or do you think it tastes like cigarettes? You mean fork? Where's the fork? Here, let me get another pan. We'll put it in it. You're gonna taste it? Yeah, it's very hot. It might be okay in the center. It's fine. So hold on, it's a little— it's a little undercooked. A little bit burnt and undercooked. Hey, it's working! That's nice, you're using the back of the blade so you don't dull it up. There you go. Yeah, yeah, I'm thinking, uh, so we can cook that rice tomorrow. Come and get it. Real simple, rice and beans and a meat, a ground meat at everything. Beef tomorrow night? Well then we'll do chicken the next night. And you might taste it and see if you need more salt. Let's try it. How is it?

Good.

Is the lamb good? Yeah, it's good for them too to get some time together. This is good to have a different dynamic. I don't know if this particular dynamic has ever happened. 12 hours of sleep. 12 hours in the tent last night. I won't say sleep, but almost 12 hours of sleep. How'd you sleep? Well, we needed that, didn't we? Huh? See how the teenager is doing. You still laying in the bed? There he is. The group comes today. I don't think I'm— besides the Meekses, the other leaders, I don't think I know any of them. And I think I miscalculated yesterday. There's going to be 27. Anyway, a bunch of men and boys bonding as fathers and sons and learning what it means to be a man. Although it's not really learning what it means to be be a man. Really? You have to learn that by serving the woman. I guess we're gonna learn that, aren't we? And we're gonna reinforce that, and we're gonna— we're gonna get a rest, and we're gonna get a break from serving the woman, and we'll go back charged more than ever, won't we? All right, tea's tea incoming. Uh-oh, it sure is beautiful. But you know what they say, red skies in the morning, sailors warning. Burn it up, cooking show. Homegrown bacon. Some tea. Eggs incoming. Doing a little scouting this morning. We got a little swimming hole for later this afternoon, huh? Is it still safe? I think so. We don't have to worry about the crowds today. No, it's cold. This can get crowded in the summer. That's the secret to swimming all by yourself— go in November. So we'll see who will jump off this. Do this today, this afternoon with them, huh? Early sun in our eyes. I think Gideon's loving it. Josiah is everybody's favorite. Gideon's getting a lot of time with just Josiah. This has been good, and it's like Gideon's a different kid removed from the regular dynamics. In a good way, he's a different kid. But maybe he'll tap that and bring it on back to normal life. Maybe we all will. All right. All right, this is a first time I've ever had a group invited others to a Mighty Man Camp. My boys and I have been doing it for years, but we're in that place where I think I could. But honestly, this wouldn't be happen had not my spiritual daddy, my mentor Steve Meeks, died. And what this is is, hey, he's gone. His heart was to train and encourage men to raise boys into men. And this wouldn't have happened had he not died. All— well, one— four of his five sons, one of them being a son-in-law, and then three birth sons are coming. The, the fifth one doesn't even have any children yet. So here we go, arrival. Hey! You coming for this group camp? Okay, good. Who you got with you?

Okay, okay. What's that?

This? Yeah, is that camera stuff? Oh wow, you brought camera gear and music gear. You the 6-year-old? Yeah. Okay, youngest one. Can you hang with us? Can you keep up with us? Car number 2. This is exciting. These guys are all part of an experiment. I've never done, well, really anything. I'm— I could— I've never done this, and neither have the Meeks boys, where it's on us, you know. It's always been we had somebody else like Steve being the leader. We're now the leaders. One thing I'm gonna get at here— I don't remember where I left off before the people arrived, but one thing I'm gonna get at is the Meeks boys. I was first attracted to Steve because I wanted a mentor whose children turned out well and still wanted to be around them. Here comes somebody else. And that's, that's these guys. So really, I kind of want to get at how do you make that happen? Let's, let's learn that. Like, how does a man make it so their children turn out well and then want to be around them as well? Wednesday afternoon was going to be pretty easy. I had planned a little micro hike a cold plunge, a little taste of what was going to come on the big day the following day. And I'm thinking I'll get a chance to talk to the Miixes during this. Leading all these men and children into the woods. Let's make sure I'm going the right way. This is when you triple check when you're leading 30 people into the woods. You don't want to go down the wrong trail. Wow, I grew up.

There it is.

I did right. Okay, if you guys want, I'll show you how to get up there. What are we doing? Am I in the vlog? Huh? You're in the vlog. Am I in the vlog?

You're in the vlog.

Okay, what's, what's the vlog? What's the channel? Uh, the Joke-ello. Okay. All right, nice. K-E-L-L-O-U-G-H. Say it again. J-O-E-K-E-L-L-O-U-G-H. Okay, Austin, link it up. Hey, come up this way, it's a little easier. Back from the waterfall, no problems. Cold plunge. It's not that cold out here. The water will be colder. You ready for this, ice boy? Yeah. Are you willing to get in and make sure there's no branches or anything in that deep hole? There aren't, I know. Okay, you willing to be a guinea pig then? No. Go in first? I'm not going first. Somebody's got to go in there and see if it's safe. Okay, I think it's safe. You want me to go down and swim? Yeah, if you're willing to. Okay, you can get in. I'm gonna go down and swim and make sure that we don't hit anything that will impale us. Yeah, smart. It's not cold at all. We're gonna jump right there. He's making sure it's safe. Okay, I can't touch here. Okay, boys, all right, you're gonna jump. Jump here. How deep is it? Go down. I'm gonna go that way. You're standing? Okay, it's not deep. Come on, come on! Good job, man! Pretty soon you'll be numb, you won't feel nothing. You enjoy this hot hot springs? No. Oh wow, it's exactly what we needed. Oh yeah, good call, Griswold. I wish it was a hot spring. Hot springs? I'd be in it way longer if it was a hot spring. I gotta do the boxers thing, don't I? I don't have any. So you're filming? Why me? The one with no clothes on? Nobody will know. Whoa! I just had such a great time. I got lost in the moment. I never got to talk to any of the Mixes. I have this whole day ahead of me. Surely I will get to today. It started out early. Great start, 6 AM with this surprise video that Caleb had found from his dad, very recent, that he had yet to publish. Right off the bat, Steve addressed our failures as fathers.

Big news here, just to lay it on the table because I have men asking me all the time, telling me all the time, I think I'm messing up. I don't think I'm doing a good job with my kids. I'm afraid that I'm going to ruin my kids. I'm going to mess them up for life because I don't know what to do. And, or, or they say, I know I'm making a lot of mistakes and those mistakes are probably going to ruin my kids. I already can sense it. Well, here's the good news, or maybe the bad news, but here's the news, the facts. There are no perfect fathers. There's no perfect dad. Your dad wasn't perfect. You're not perfect. Of course I'm not perfect. My dad wasn't perfect. There's no such thing as a perfect dad. Now understand what the word perfect means. We mean it, we say it, and we mean it, um, a flawless dad without mistakes, a guy who never messes up, who always has the right words at the right time and says them in the right way, always kind of on the money and knowing with a 3-year-old or a 13-year-old or a 23-year-old what to do and how to do it. There's not one. I mean, there are guys who do better than others, and there are times when you'll do better at certain things than other things, but no flawless men out there. So are our kids doomed? Are they destined to be messed up, ruined? No, no, not at all. None at all. And yours aren't either, because there are things that you can and should do that will produce mature kids, will produce happiness and joy and strength in your kids. They will be fine if you'll attend to 3 things I'm going to tell you today. These are the big chunks. These are the main things. And if you're strong in one, great. If you're not as strong in any of them, you can be. They are attainable and they're not that hard. They're not that far away. It's just basically you got to know what they are and a little bit about how to do them. And I'm telling you guys, this will produce the good fruit. This will bring about a mature, healthy, close, dynamic relationship between you and your kids.

Then he laid out 3 things us fathers can do despite our failures to still succeed. Let's go.

The first one is you need to be present. Present. Now, you can go to every ballgame and still have a lot of distance between you and your kid. You can, you can go to work every day and be present there, come home every night and sit around the table and be present, or be in the house and be present. But I'm talking about something else. I'm talking about you need to be You need to be emotionally present. I don't mean you need to cry all the time or what. Listen to me, hang with me here. Let me define these things for you. You need to be emotionally present.

So be present, not just there, but present, present, off the phone, not thinking about work. I'm totally guilty of this as I'm there with them, but I'm thinking on something else. I'm starting to now categorize my times and rein my mind back in saying, for example, if we're at supper and I'm starting to wonder about what I'm gonna do next after supper, hold off, just wait, just wait. Enjoy the supper, enjoy the kids. Something interesting that he included in being present was delighting in your children.

Here's the number one thing to do. Look at 'em in the face. Look at them with delight in your eyes. I'm telling you, this is so huge. It's so important. It's not a stare down. It's not like I'm looking you in the eyes, but it's just to look at their face. And when you do, to express something of pleasure, of delight, of I'm glad to see you. You don't know how many times men will come home and go to work and they have their face in a phone, or they have their face in a computer screen or book, or just somewhere else on a task. They're fixing a motor on a car, or they're working on some project that they have to work on, and they're never looking at their kids. And I'm telling you, from the time they're little infants all the way through, make opportunities, find time, make it your practice to every now and then just look at your kid in the face and say, I love you. Just that. Just look at them in the face with sincerity and meaning it, and just look at their eyes and say, you know, I'm just really glad you're in the family. So glad God gave us you. I think you're great. Proud of you. Those things, that's important. You got to look them in the face. So be present, emotionally present in that way. Now, I'm not talking about going into great confessions and all kinds of ooey-gooey, I don't know, whatever we would call it, but stuff that's just kind of fake or phony or really hard to do and just not really us. I'm talking a very simple step that is essential and powerful. I do it this way. When my kids come in the morning, we have stairs upstairs where the bedrooms were. When they would come down the the steps in the mornings. I still do it even if they're, if they're visiting, and they're all adults. They're in their 30s and, and one in his 40s. And when they come down, I look them in the face, I say, good morning, good to see you. That's it. Just good to see you. It says, I delight in you, you're a pleasure to me, I enjoy your presence, I want more of it. It's, you are You're valuable in my sight. Just say that, something along those lines, but look them in the face. Look, you don't have to stare them down, but look them in the face. It's really important that you delight in them, and that is partly by looking at their face. All right, be present in that way, emotionally present. That'll go a long ways, but there's more to add to it.

Steve was really good about that, not just with his children, but with other people with me. I just felt like I was his favorite. I'm sure many people felt like they were his favorite. So I want to jumpstart this with my children in the way I greet them in the morning. Let's go overboard right now. Let's do this. First thing this morning, let's just greet each of the children with delight. I'm not kidding. Mom just called Johnny. He's on his way home. And she sang to him. She knows nothing about these prompts. She's just delighting in her children. She sang to Lily too, by the way. It certainly helps if you wake up before them and get out of grogginess and get in a good mood. How'd the song go for Jonah? Good morning, Jonah, how are you today? Good morning, Jonah, I hope you Have a great day. Obviously you can change the name. That was from my preschool, and when we came into preschool they would sing that song to us. Good morning. Good morning. I'm tired.

You're tired? What time did you go to sleep?

1:30. Oh. Oh. Greet him with delight, Rebecca. Good morning. He won't get the— they don't always get the memo. He wakes up with delight. We'll give him another minute. Now normally I just— first interaction with the boys is, get up, come on, get up. Hey, hey, you stirring? You stirring? You stirring, big guy? Is Gideon. This is the day. This is the day that the Lord has made, that the Lord has made. I will rejoice. I will rejoice and be glad in it. Sing it. And be glad in it. This is the day that the Lord has made. I will rejoice and be glad. Try some more. This is the day. This is the day that the Lord has made. Guess we both just whipped out our grade school songs. Do more for me.

Jonah?

And— Henry. Let's see if Henry's ready for me. Good morning. He's still getting shy, gotta live with Mom. Good morning. Just one more kid when Jonah gets home. That'll be a big one because he's been gone for 3 or 4 days. 2 hours later. We try to delight in them every day, but when they've been gone 3 days, you gotta have a big delight. Hey, there's our boy from far away. Come on, bud. Hunting man. Hey, everybody's excited! Henry, man, everybody's happy to have you home. Henry's a little shy. Look what he's brought home! Nice! That's gonna be a cool head. Good job, buddy. Yeah, we're just gonna have all the meat. You're gonna do it like Outdoor Boys and boil it all off or put it in the woods? There we go.

Let's check on the forbidden stew. I'm just gonna put it with one of my—

boil it. Well, you gotta tie it up, don't you? If you put it— yeah, I'm gonna tie them up in a tree. He finally got him a buck, y'all. And ever since that perhaps over-the-top morning, I've been— I find myself wanting to just go in there and turn on the line, time to get up, sleepyhead, let's go, burning daylight kind of approach. You know, it might be— I might not sing to them, but scratching their back, rubbing their head, saying good morning, just starting the day off right. His second one was be persistent.

There are dads who are present and there are dads who are persistent. Persisting just means you don't give up. You know, being, being present means you show up, but persistent means you don't give up. It means you don't quit trying. It means you're always learning and you're growing, you are developing, and And so that means that you admit wrongs. Now, this is a tough one here, but this is something you need to do with your kids. These are very fundamental steps that have major impact and help. So you need to admit that you are not perfect. And I would just say, pull them aside. I don't care if your youngster is 6 or 7, or if they're 16 or 18, but pull them aside, say, I want to talk to you a minute, and get them to the side and say, look, I love you. I want a good relationship between us. I want us to be close. I want us to do things and have fun. And I want us to be like family. I want to know because I've messed up something. I don't know, it's my first time to be a dad. It's my first time through life. I'm learning all the time. Would you tell me where I have hurt you or embarrassed you or failed you in some way? Because I don't want to do that. I want to make that right. Would you— can you tell me? And they'll tell you. Now, sometimes they're afraid to tell you. Depends a little bit about on your relationship that you've had with them. If you've been critical and you're always defensive and whatever, then they're going to be hesitant and they're not about to to say, well, Dad, you really messed up in these 10 different ways this week. So it's okay if they don't have anything to say. They don't know what to say. First of all, you've been thinking about it. They haven't been thinking about it. But if they don't have anything to say, just say, it's okay. Look, I want us to have a great relationship. I know that I don't know all about what I'm to do as a dad, and I fail, and I just want to make it right. When you think of something let me know because I want to apologize. That's what you tell them. I want to apologize. So if they bring to you a list of 10 things, or if they may sort of quickly or even slowly, but they come to a point and say, well, you did this, um, say I'm sorry. Do not, do not explain, oh, you misunderstood, I didn't mean that, I meant that, or don't excuse yourself. Oh, I did that because this was going on and that was going on. That takes away everything. You just ruined it. You shot yourself in the foot. Don't do it. Simply listen to what they have to say and say, I'm sorry. I don't want to hurt you. I don't want to embarrass you. I don't want there to be anything between us. Can you forgive me? That's what you ask. I'm sorry, because you, you Even if they misunderstood, you don't want to hurt them. Even if it wasn't intentional that you did that, it was by accident, you don't want distance between the two of you. And so say, "I don't want that. I'm sorry. Can you forgive me?" They may forgive you on the spot, probably will. But if they don't, say, "It's okay. I just want you to know that I don't want anything between us." and I am sorry that I made that mistake. And one day, if possible, I hope you'll forgive me, but I love you. And that's it. And go on. Give them a chance to respond. Embrace it. Listen to it. The thing you want to do is you want to erase, you want to set the slate clean. You want to erase that problem that's there. And whether it was a misunderstanding or something you actually did that was inappropriate, You want them to forgive you, or at least have the opportunity to forgive you. And you want to be present by saying, I am, I'm sorry. You want to be persistent in pursuing that relationship. You want to make sure that you're putting forth the best effort that you can in order to right the relationship. So you persist in that relationship. Be present. By delighting in them, and then persist by— first step is just kind of make the slate clean. And you may have to do this every now and then, every year or every couple of years or sometime, but at least today, this week, before the end of the week, call one of them aside, one at a time, and tell them, look, I love you. I don't want anything between us. I want a strong relationship with you. I'm not perfect. I make mistakes. I'm learning. And I'd like to know what have I done to hurt you or embarrass you or let you down because I want to apologize. Now that's a long speech, but I think you got the point. You can say it in your own way, but those are the elements that need to be there. And then listen and then say, I'm sorry that hurt you. I'm sorry that there's this distance between us. I don't want it. Can you forgive me? And when they forgive you, say, thank you. Thank you for doing that. If they can't forgive you, you say, no pressure, just to let you know it's on the table and I love you. We'll talk again later. That's it. Go on. That will reset the table, fellas. That will, that will, that persisting, that, that pushing for the ideal is so valuable. To them. It will change them and it will change the relationship. Don't doubt me. Do it. Wait. Let it bear fruit.

But what he included in persistent was making sure there's nothing between you guys and confessing anything that you might have done wrong. We just had a good time. A time of confession to our sons and opening it up for for them to share any times we may have failed them. Ah, that's really good. My dad did that with me once. I wasn't comfortable sharing, but what Meeks said this morning is you've got to be persistent. So I've got none of them shared either, these two. Jonah would probably share something. Lily would definitely share something because I've asked them before. I've got to be persistent. I've got to revisit it and continue to open that door for them. I think it's very special that the children know that the parent isn't perfect and that they admit their shortcomings. I don't know what it is about it, but it's important. The third one is lots of prayer. I know Mr. Meeks was a praying man. That's one big reason besides that his— all his children turned out well and he wasn't that old to be my children's godfather, because I knew if he knew Rebecca and I were getting on a plane, he'd be praying.

Here's how I start my day. Here I am. God, help me. That's how I start my day. And I, when I get off the bed, my feet hit the floor, it's a trigger for me to just begin my day where I need to begin it, where you need to begin it, because we are not perfect, because we don't know what we're doing. A lot of the time, whether it's being parents or being husbands or being members of society, we mess up. And so humility, I mean, just being able to say, I don't know it all, is the beginning of maturity. It's real. It's really the sign of maturity. Bravado, I got it, I can do it, is really immature because nobody's got it all. I don't care who they are. So they're very immature. So I would say, Dad, first thing you can do to model to your kids maturity, even though they don't see it but you be it, the first thing you can do is say in the morning, God, here I am, help me, and then go on with your day. That little prayer, guys, is the biggest prayer you may pray?

That one's hard for me. I'll be honest, don't think I'm some, uh, saint. Uh, I don't pray. I haven't prayed in 10 years. Well, I wouldn't say I don't pray. You'll see me lately doing the sign of cross, and that is me saying thanks or help. It would be a very simple prayer, something physical. Also, around the long fast I did and Meeks's death, I've found myself attempting more. And I'll go at the Our Father, or the Lord's Prayer, whatever you want to call it. And so I've yet to do this, and it's been— how long has it been, Austin, since camp? 2, 3 weeks? By the time this comes out, it might be 3, 4 weeks. Hopefully by the time this comes out, I've at least Your will be done. That section of the prayer, thinking of my children. Your will be done. And doing it every morning when I go outside in the dark to earth. Thy will be done with my children. Now for our big hike. The famous Looking Glass. It's going to be 3 miles up and 3 miles down. I had 2 hopes or concerns for this trip. One, we have some very young kids. We have a 5-year-old going to attempt this. Little man, you're going to make it up the mountain? You're going to make it up the mountain?

Let's see.

2.5 miles, buddy. What do you think? High five. Are we all going to make it? And two, time's ticking. Surely I must talk to the Meeks. On this hike. We are about to leave and going on a huge hike, Looking Glass. Huge hike for a group, and a lot of us being young. 2.5 miles up, 2.5 miles down. It's one of the most famous hikes, I would say, easily on the East Coast. Certainly in Pisgah, the most famous hike in Pisgah. Carpooling, carpooling! Look who's here, look who's here! Hey! Is it weird to be a dad now, Austin? It is. Has it sunk in yet?

I'm still in that weird spot of like young man and like, yeah, dad.

Yeah, you have two kids now, bro. I know. Oh man, are you gonna make it up the mountain? Yeah. Are you gonna make it up? You're gonna have to carry me. Are you gonna make it up? We were making you for like— we were getting new shoes because of ours. Are you gonna make it up? No. Yeah, we You've been waiting on me for like 7 minutes. Oh my. Okay, who's gonna make it? Everybody gonna make it? You're gonna get warm real fast, buddy. We got it. Okay, your boy's gonna make it. Yeah, you guys normally hike?

Um, we don't hike a lot, but they, they play and run and stuff a lot, so.

Okay, we'll see. You gonna make it, my man? No, he's the first to say I don't know. Okay, dude, it's At least we're being honest with ourselves, right? Slow down, there's nothing to get you. All right, we're doing this '90s style. We're not looking at the, uh, uh, where we are. We've gotten to this. Let's see what this is. We're seeing a few of these along the way. I would say if it's 2.5 miles to the top, I'd say we're almost 2 miles. What would you say? It's been an hour 20 minutes. It's been a good ways for sure. Yeah. Okay, let's keep going. I'm not— I'm tempted to look at my phone, but I'm not gonna. We got all the way to the top. It happened there were no Meeks around on the way up, so I thought, you know, I'm gonna have to interview them up here or back at camp or on the way down. So I, so I even made an announcement. Guys, I'm gonna— I'd like to interview you, ask you what your dad's secret is. Just, just be ready. I queued it up. Now I gotta do this. I wasn't sure if we were ever gonna make it. Especially coming down. Did anybody cheat and look at your GPS? No. Good. You know how you didn't know where you were when you were going to get here? Yes. Welcome to the '90s. Did you enjoy an hour and a half of the '90s? Yeah, it's nice. Okay, isn't it nice? I've only had 3 years.

See those 7 deer walking down the hill over there?

Do you really see some deer?

3 weeks ago you wouldn't see it because there'd be leaves.

That's the advantage of coming without the leaves. You can see everything. You see the views on the way here too.

Saying if we did, we have a chance today, but we would—

Hey, my man! Hey! Oh, look! Oh, come on, look! The old guy getting a call.

Mom, look!

It's funny, you of all people get the call. You got any water left? If you die, make sure you get some of your insurance. Not much. Has Gideon gotten some drink? Yeah, he's getting— good job making it up the hill. You made it! The youngest guy here. Did you have to carry him? Not one step. Not one, dude. Yeah, man, proud of you.

Is it worth it?

Nope. He's like, I could have just gotten a snack at the, uh— he doesn't get the view. I could have ate this at camp.

We talked about the tortoise and the hare.

Okay, quite a bit while we were good walking up. Oh man, you're getting the drone shot! Heck yes, let's go! Then we got a chance to live out the persistence. We had time where the fathers and sons went away to their own little huddle and we could confess something and ask if there was anything between us. I confessed, I asked, I got a picture of it. It was a wonderful view. How's that look? Of course, it was Josiah and Gideon, and they didn't share anything, but I'm gonna be persistent and now aware of just when they're doing this in real life. As we live quantity life together, we've got some quality. Quality comes after quantity in an organic manner. It's awkward when you're asking them and you're just both sitting there, but in real life and they confront you, just notice that. Just go with that. Then definitely one of my highlights of the trip, all us men huddled together on the rock and Joe took off his drone and we got a drone shot, a group shot from way up there. We all decided to yell like a bunch of Mighty Men warriors or something. Mighty Men war cry, here we go! Hey, don't blow my ears out, Jesse! I enjoyed a great conversation with Benjamin Meeks, one of the Meeks' sons, and another camper on the way down. And then when we got back, we went on another cold plunge. Mind you, this is November, late November. I want to say this is one of the things I was most looking forward to, what we're going to do next. Although now that it's a little cool in the air, I'm not sure. I think now maybe the hike was the highlight for me. But what we're gonna do now is gonna hurt more than anything we've done thus far. I want to get ahead of these guys and get their reaction to this. They want to go big first, Josiah. Okay, that means the waterfall pit. Just wait till they see this. I love taking people here. This is wild, especially so many that like to cold plunge. Heck yes! Who's doing this? You ready? About 6, 7 feet deep. I shouldn't have met you. I only let you down. Oh, not right. After the cold plunge, I was really comfortable with everybody. I just felt so relaxed. I just gave up unofficially asking the Meeks brothers. But as I look back on Benj and I's hike down, I don't feel like I need to ask the Meeks brothers because I did ask Benj about that, about Steve and his daughter, and what did he do to gain that trust? And as Benj started to try to articulate the answer, We both sort of worked it out and realized, wait a minute, he lived out those 3 things. He was present. He delighted in his children, and for that matter, in others. He delighted, he delighted in her. He liked her beyond loving her. He was present. He wasn't perfect, but he did this exercise with his kids. He made sure things was right. He did this ironically, or blessingly, significantly, especially without him knowing he did this a few days before he passed. And his death came sudden and without warning. And he called, he was on a trip and he called all 5 of his children and did something along those lines. So he was persistent. And then of course we know he's a prayerer because Rebecca and I are both still alive despite all the crazy things she and I do together. Oh, they honked! Scary. You ready? I can't believe we bought a bus. That's what made that kind of trust possible. It's not that he was perfect, it's just that he lived out those tenets. And the proof is in the pudding, so to speak. And By the way, it turned out wonderful for Hannah. She did find somebody, and she found somebody wonderful. Ian, remember the 5-year-old that we weren't sure that would make it? He made it. They're a beast of a family in all the good ways. Ian is a superb guy, and he passed the test, and they are great together. The encouraging thing here is despite all our shortcomings, my shortcomings, your shortcomings for that matter, I can be. You can be a great father, dad, to all of your children, just like Steve. Happy day.