Jason & Lorraine | Sow The Land

I got 4 people to join my group.

You did?

Yeah.

Oh, that's good. And I have actually have a 5th person, but they were out of town, so they didn't do it. And then I actually have another person too that sometimes does it with us.

So that's good. You don't want it to get too big though.

No, no, it's just people that live in our area in Hoopers Creek.

She doesn't even need it because you basically meet the minimum.

I do. I meet the minimum because I only order every 3 months. But if I could get the people to commit to a monthly, then we could do a monthly.

Yeah.

I wouldn't mind that. Yeah, but I just— because then I would never have to go to the grocery store. I can buy produce and stuff from them.

You have to drop off here?

Yeah.

Yeah, that's nice.

Do they do bananas?

I don't know if they do, but I could just order. I've been dehydrating— not freeze drying, but dehydrating our bananas, and they are really good.

Really?

Yeah.

Don't they get weird brown? They do, but I like dehydrate them so they're kind of tacky still.

Okay.

They're so chewy and good. They're like sweeter.

Interesting. Because those sugars are more concentrated.

Oh yeah.

It kind of like helps your banana fix. Cause I always get, I always panic when we don't have bananas. We don't eat them.

They're just there.

I just have to have bananas in the house.

I love that.

I know this about you that you get panicked when there's no bananas in the house.

I know this about you. Or apples.

Or apples. Well, because that's our snacks. I mean, we're not eating like a box that's going to sit there.

Yeah.

For like 3 months.

Yeah.

It's like, I know being an ingredients household is hard.

It is.

Because you have to like have the fresh ingredients on hand.

Yeah.

Yeah. And sometimes you, they eat them and want them and sometimes they don't.

Right.

And you accommodate that and it goes rotten.

I know. What happens like if these 15 gallons of strawberries are like, they're not going to go bad. I know, right? They're not going to. We don't ever buy strawberries.

Yeah, well, they're in season, so it's kind of nice to enjoy them.

This is the time that they can have them.

Oh, and you should freeze some of them and make lemonade. Strawberry lemonade.

I already have 6 gallons in the freezer.

Oh, nice.

That's another idea.

But I need to do—

Right now they do smoothies.

Another 5.

Yeah. Strawberry lemonade is so good in the summertime.

What do you do?

Um, just put it in the Vitamix. So it's kind of like a smoothie, but by the time, like, you drink it, it's, it's like a lemonade smoothie with lemon juice. No, just frozen strawberries. Oh, and lemon, a little bit of lemon juice, a little bit of water. You can do honey, but with the frozen strawberries, it kind of makes it hard. So you can do a little bit of organic sugar. Yeah. I mean, which it's like a little bit, they're sweet enough. That's a good idea. The kids would really like that.

Cause when they were sick, um, we were doing orange juice.

Yeah.

So I would put the frozen strawberries in, a little bit of orange juice, a lot of water. Oh yeah, there you go. Cause nobody needs that much orange juice.

So we have 35 gallons. Let's just say we have 36 gallons. How many gallons is that a month? 3 gallons?

Of strawberry product?

Yeah.

Yeah.

That's really not that much.

It's not.

It's not.

Not for a family of 7.

No.

With boys.

That's a lot of meat.

And then peach season is right around the corner.

Yeah.

Yeah. And I'm going to get peaches from our neighbor.

Oh, nice.

Blueberries. And then it's the—

Raspberries. We have raspberries.

And it's the raspberries. And then it's the apples.

Yeah, but then there's the whole long, long winter.

Well, that's why you have your canned jam.

You have your strawberry jam and frozen strawberries.

So I canned blueberries last year. Our neighbors let us come pick. Like, they had picked all they wanted and there was still so much more to pick. We picked so much.

That's such a gift when people get—

it was such a gift like that.

And it's something that we're not growing or we don't have an abundance like that. And when someone gives it to you, you're like, Like, oh my gosh, thank you, because this is our food.

So I made preserves and I gave them some of the preserves, but then we, we, I mean, we slammed it. We just ran out of blueberries though, so we were taking a pint of blueberries. It was just blueberries. There was— I didn't add any water or anything, and it had all this juice in it. And I would just put— we'd put a scoop or two and yogurt. Yeah, it was so good.

So did you— you— how many strawberries did you— are you gonna get?

We had 2 gallons, was it not last week but the week before? Um, and we're done with that. We finished it all. And so I was gonna get some because I was like, oh, Rebecca's gonna take it. So I have to, I have to like plan this out because the haulers will get their like 15 or 20 gallons and then now you take your 15 gallons. I know, or 35 gallons. And so I'm like, okay, tell Rebecca there's only 10. Yeah, so, but anyway, they have plenty.

And so Um, because I guess I'll be going back next week depending on what happens with these.

We gotta let Lorraine go.

I'm gonna let you—

I'm gonna go Wednesday.

Let me go Wednesday, get my little 2 gallons. I might get like 4.

What will you do with your 4 gallons?

Um, probably 1 gallon I will freeze for strawberry lemonade, and then, um, I'm gonna make jam. I don't know how much jam I'm making because I don't I don't like strawberry jam. Yeah, Jason likes it. And Penelope. Yeah, we don't, we don't eat a whole lot of it, so. And we don't eat a whole lot of bread either.

See, we don't either.

But like, put it on toast.

We put it in yogurt.

But now we're going to be putting it in yogurt.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Justin came to me last night and was like, look at this jam and yogurt. Yeah, I'm thinking I'm going to need a lot more.

Did y'all, when you were in California, were you making jam?

We, um, right before we left, like when we were getting into homesteading. Um, but like when we first got married, no, we were different people.

We were just starting it, starting to figure that out. Yeah.

Um, so how different were you? I think most people know you or can assume you're homesteaders now.

How different? Yeah, well, different, I guess, when we first got married.

Well, what was your—

what were you like?

What were your hobbies? When you first got married?

We used to go out a lot. We did a lot of— we swing dance. Yeah. So, so we used to go every weekend, hang out with our friends and, and, you know, we're just outside of L.A., so there was a lot of— there's a lot to do, like, you know, kind of '50s, 1940s clubs that we would just get dressed up and go dancing. And that's what we did, like, a lot.

And we loved collecting antiques vintage clothes and so shopping, shopping, but not like shopping at the mall type, right?

Like shopping at these like little places.

Yeah.

Like vintage stores and stuff like that. We collect a lot of stuff.

That was big in North— in California?

Big around our circles. Like people that are friends and stuff like, like vintage clothes and vintage furniture. We would all kind of just collect that stuff. Like old movie posters I collected.

Like, but you still do this. I need to know the difference.

But not as much.

Yeah, you have a record player. You have a record player. Well, yes, if you have a record player in your living room, but not like what it was.

Like, it was crazy. Like, it was insane. Like, instead of spending, you know, all my money on records, now I spend it on feed, you know, on chickens. Yeah. So it's a whole different shift there.

Yeah, we still enjoy going to antique stores now and the hunt for like things with history and a story behind it. And we love just walking through and picking up each piece and like holding it in our hands and imagining where it used to live and, and the story behind it. But we don't buy it. We just don't have room.

I'm going to bring you when I go antique shopping.

Oh yes.

I think you'll help me find what I need.

Were you so different enough that you would— would you still— would you hang out with those people?

I wouldn't have hung out with me. And the old me—

You would hang out with you, but you wouldn't hang out with you.

The old me would have not hung out with the new me.

The new you.

Oh, no.

But the new me would have.

I would have tolerated it, I guess. I was a different person. I was a different— I worked in the fashion industry. I was— I wore high heels, red lipstick, and Okay. I did different things.

So, wow.

She was a working girl.

Yeah, I guess we didn't know anybody who like homesteaded, who like would make stuff from scratch at home.

Yeah. Like food.

We ate very differently. Like, I remember I was telling Jason the other day, I was like, oh, remember we used to eat those Marie Callender's frozen microwave pot pies?

Yeah. Marie Callender's is a restaurant out there. Yeah.

Is it a restaurant?

Yeah, it's a— I don't know if it's still a restaurant, but it was.

And so—

but they also have a frozen section. Marie Callender's frozen section at the grocery store and they sell these like little pot pies.

Marie Callender's? You do realize I've been grocery shopping for 25 years.

Out in Vegas.

And we used to grocery shop at Walmart. So I know about the frozen section.

Marie Callender's would be there at Walmart?

Marie Callender's pot pies?

I don't know that I have.

Does she make pies too?

At the restaurant? Yes.

Do they have frozen pies though in the grocery store? I might have bought a Marie Callender's. Frozen pie, but I never, I've never been like, my mom didn't buy frozen food really like that. I mean, we had like TV dinners that we would have like for a lunch if we needed it type thing. But like, I never, like, I never bought like a frozen lasagna. Like, you know what I mean? Like, we just didn't eat lasagna because I didn't know how to make it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well, we were different. We ate differently. We didn't, we didn't. Cook a lot. I wasn't home. I worked. Yeah.

You miss any part of that?

No.

I mean, I guess the— I guess we miss our family back in California. That, that we— that's what we miss. But as far as like how we used to live, no.

I mean, no, you're disgusting.

We're going to—

I want to try to find— I'm going to find some pictures of Lerner and Fish from before.

Okay. What was the pivotal moment?

Cancer.

Well, yeah, I had cancer. That was definitely the pivotal moment. I don't think it was because if I didn't get cancer, I still think we would still be living that lifestyle.

Yeah. Yeah.

Like, I wouldn't even think, like, this world even exists.

Yeah, it was a huge eye-opening wake-up call for both of us in our own journey, like spiritual journey, like all kinds of like You know, just food journey, everything in every aspect of our life. Like we had already been married for what was it, 5 years? Yeah. When he had cancer and I was working in the fashion industry.

And how old were you when you got married?

25? Yeah, 25. And then I was 30. Yeah.

Okay.

Yeah. And so I remember I was, I was, um, I was at work when he called and he was like, oh, I, I'm at the doctor's. That biopsy that I had on my neck, I got the results and I have cancer. And I was like, like, what? I was so upset. And I was just like, everything stopped. Like, you know, you picture the fashion industry, it's like this wheel, you know, that's constantly moving. And I just remember everything stopped and I was like, I want to go home. I think I need to be at home. Like, I need to— I did go home that day to be with him, and I just— that day forward, like, before that, I didn't— I never wanted to be home. I, I didn't really like stay-at-home moms. And I just think, you know, that was the igniting change, you know, like it was just like, oh, there's this— I have this purpose. Like, I feel this need to be at home for him. And I was— and then when we went, I remember when we went to, um, the doctor's office and they were like, well, there's a possibility you might not be able to have children after chemo. And I was thinking, wait, I'm like, I think I was like, what, 28 at the time? And I was like, wait, what if we do want to have kids?

Like, because you didn't want it like before that.

It's not that we didn't want to think about it. We were just so busy, you know, with work and living our best life. We just didn't really think about— we thought, oh, well, later we will. And then, you know, all that, you know, it wasn't a plan.

But then when the doctor tells you, like, you— this might not happen, so it's almost like they were making our decision for us.

Yeah.

So it was like—

were you at the doctor when you called her?

No, I was at home.

You went home?

Yeah.

What was that like when the doctor was like— what was that like when then when the doctor was like, hey, we got your results, and you— I'm assuming you went to an appointment appointment, or did they call you on the phone?

No, I went to an appointment. It was a follow-up appointment, uh, and they were like— because they had took a biopsy of my neck, had a large lymph node on my neck, and it just kept on getting bigger and bigger. And I was having other symptoms like, uh, like really rashy skin, and I was having night sweats. And those are, I guess, symptoms of Hodgkin's lymphoma is what I had. So after the biopsy, I went in there. Still, it wasn't like, uh, that wasn't even a thought it was going to be cancer, right? It just— I just thought like I don't know.

They're going to give you a pill.

Well, they had—

you had gone in before for the swollen lymph node and they were like, oh, you just probably had a cold or something like that.

Yeah. This is probably a year of figuring out why I have this swollen lymph node and no one ever took a biopsy until this one doctor I saw. He was like, oh, let's take a biopsy. And so after going in and they told me what it was, I was like, oh man, like it still wasn't like it didn't like hit you. Like almost like it wasn't real. It's almost like, you know, Charlie Brown, the adults talk like, wah, wah, wah. Like, that's what it was like, kind of slow motion. And you're just like, I was just sitting there in the doctor's office and he's just telling me all this stuff. You know, doctors are very nonchalant and like, oh yeah, it's this, you know, and we're going to— so I'm like, okay, well, what now? And then after that, it was just like, boom. Like, it was just on. Like, like, like everything just happened so quick. Next thing you know, like, maybe took like another week and then boom, I was getting chemo. Like it was just— you were like, everything happened so fast. Like, yeah, all of a sudden I was taking all these tests. I had a bone marrow biopsy, like all these things to make sure that it hadn't spread to other things, other parts of my body. And it was just like almost like—

it was like you were in a dream.

Yeah.

Walking through it like kind of like a zombie floating.

Like they were just telling me where to go and I was just— we were just like, okay, is that what we need to do? Okay, let's do that. Like, it wasn't like I felt like we had no decision on anything. We were just agreeing to whatever they were saying.

Yeah. Sign here that like all of these chemo drugs are going to be so poisonous to you, but sign here because this is what you have to do. So we just signed there. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Yeah.

Would you do it the same way again?

Yeah, that's a good question because I don't know. I've been asked that before, knowing like kind of what we know now about things. I don't know. A part of me would say, yeah, I would probably just do the same thing because what's the alternative?

I don't know.

Going to Mexico and getting high vitamin C dosages, but it's so expensive. No, you know, nothing. Insurance won't pay for it. And, you know, so, yeah, I don't know.

Maybe if it was— I mean, when I got the cancer, the doctor was like, if you're going to get a cancer, this is the one to get because it's like the most curable one. I think I was—

and chemo was only like 6 months.

Stage 2.

You were stage 2.

So it wasn't super advanced and I was still young. So they were like, I don't know if they told everybody that, but it was— it gave me hope. Like, it was like, oh, okay, this is the good one.

You know, I'm going to get cancer. I guess this is what I want.

And it wasn't no, like, doubt in my mind that I would not beat it. Like, it wasn't like a thought, like, oh my gosh, I mean, I guess towards the end I started having little thoughts because then you start to end, like, if it doesn't work, if the chemotherapy doesn't work. Yeah, well, yeah, that. And like, you just start meeting other people who are going through it and not them, not us. They are them not being successful at all or even, even dying. And you're just like, whoa, like and they're younger than me and they've had the same thing. And it's like, I guess that could happen to me.

Yeah. Or even the damage that the chemo can do because they had talked about the certain— he got like 4 different kinds of chemo and one of them was supposedly damaging to your lungs. So that was concerning to me. So every time he gets like a little cough, I'm always like, oh, you know, but he's, he's fine.

Yeah, it was just 6 months of chemo and You lost your hair? Yeah, I lost all my hair.

Um, what was your family saying?

Like, I think it was shocking because this was what, 15 years ago? And like nowadays so much has happened within 15 years.

Mm-hmm.

And I feel like, I mean, not to make it, um, put light on the situation, but 15 years ago we didn't know hardly anybody with cancer.

Mm-hmm.

And, and nowadays you, you hear about it so much more and it, so many more people have, especially young people. But we knew nobody who had cancer.

Not even like my grandparents.

What was like—

yeah, it was like for grandpa people, like, like older people didn't get this stuff, or it only happened in like Hallmark movies or something, right?

And then you got to live your own Hallmark movie.

Yeah, yeah, exactly.

That no one would ever want to live.

Yeah. And it was during that whole process of like that 6 months of chemo of like, man, should we be eating differently? Like, should we be cutting out stuff in our diet? And we did that kind of just evolved.

And should I be home? Should we have a child if we could? Like, there was just so many things. It was like nothing mattered. The things that we were doing before, it didn't matter because like, I remember going back to work and I remember being in an office meeting and everyone in the office or the, yeah, the design group was arguing over what color zipper to put in a dress. And I remember thinking, I don't care. Like, get me out of here. I want to go home. Jason's at home. He's sleeping. He's puking. He needs his, his like medicine every couple of hours. And I, I want to be home. And I felt like I needed to cook nutritious meals, even though I didn't really know how at the time. But I just like, I was like, I don't care what color zipper you're putting in this dress.

Mm-hmm.

Like, that's not important. There is such bigger things in life right now that matter so much more to me. And so I think that was the change. I was like, I don't really wanna be here anymore, you know?

Mm-hmm. So, so how much longer did you work?

Um, after that he became in remission and then, um, I think a year later I got pregnant and, um, I had just found out I was pregnant and I was like, so many thoughts going in my head and I was like, I don't think I want to be pregnant driving almost 2 hours to work every morning. Like, I don't think that's going to be good for me. I don't think I can handle that. So I started looking and then I got an, I got an office job nearby. And so I left my career to be pregnant, be pregnant at home. But I didn't. I was like, but I'm not going to be a stay-at-home mom.

Why did you not like stay-at-home moms?

Oh, Say it all, Lorraine. Say it all.

Well, I—

that was the old Lorraine.

I was a different person.

That Lorraine doesn't even exist at all.

I'm a stay-at-home mom.

I'm a proud stay-at-home mom.

Somebody's not even your friend. The old person's not even your friend.

Yeah, I know. No, you would not even tolerate her. I wouldn't tolerate her.

This is gossip. We don't know this person.

Yeah, I— well, I— the friends that I had then that were stay-at-home moms complained a lot, and so I was just like, Why are you complaining? You know, I do a lot throughout my day in a working world and you just complaining about your laundry that you had to fold. Yeah, I don't know. I was very shallow, so I just didn't see the value in it. But I do feel that I felt like God has changed me over the years. I had Penelope and I, as soon as she was born, I looked at her and I was like, I can't go back to work. I just can't. I can't leave her. Like, I just. I just can't. Like, I want to be the one who sees her walk for the first time. I want to be the one to teach her how to say this or that. I want to be the one to hang out with her, and I want to be the one she calls Mama, not the daycare person. And so it was like little gradual things. So I do remember like when I was like, okay, I'm, I'm going to leave my job and be home with Penelope. I just remember like feeling, okay, what is my job here? Like, I need something to do. I need a goal. I need a purpose. I can't just spend my day doing nothing. So I just remember praying about that. And then I felt like God has changed me. He has. He has really through fire. He has changed me and into like a person who loves being at home and loves serving my family. I feel like it's more of a purpose now. Like, this is like my purpose, like to serve my family and serve it well and do— because I was like, oh, if I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it well. I make nutritious foods, and like, if I'm gonna clean that house, I'm gonna clean it. Because I don't know, I just felt like I wasn't gonna be the type of person who just sat around and complained about my day.

Hmm. Did you, when you were driving, you first quit your career, you didn't want to make that drive.

Why?

2 hours pregnant.

Oh, I had a little bit of morning sickness.

Okay.

Um, but plus I'm the type of person, I feel like I'm kind of like Justin, like I cannot waste any time of my day. I still listen to audiobooks. Every minute of my day has to be well spent. And well planned out. And so I just kind of felt like, well, I'm just wasting time. I mean, yeah, I can listen to a really good audiobook, but like, really, I could be getting my hands in something, doing something, making something, creating something. I just felt like it was— I'm spending 2 hours just sitting here.

So it was 2 hours one way sometimes.

And that's because of traffic and stuff.

Because of traffic.

So at first you're thinking you're just going to quit really just for practical reasons. Your career. You didn't know it was this because you made sure you tell us, I quit my career. But maybe at that moment, was it that? Were you realizing you were quitting your career?

It's hard to get back in. It was hard to get into the fashion industry. So I knew if I left, there was no getting back. I also had some thoughts of like at that time because I— because we were looking into what we eat, I was like, you know, I got a job at the university I graduated from. So I thought, you know what, I could go back to school while I'm pregnant and working here and I could study nutrition. So that was my plan B.

To become a nutritionist?

Yeah, I guess so. But I never, I never took a class. No, I didn't. I just, I had Penelope and I was like, I, I just want to spend every minute with her.

You called the fashion industry, that you called that, that was your career. And then you got this office job. You called that your job. And then you called— and then you had Penelope. You said, okay, I got to quit the job. And you called that your purpose.

My purpose. Exactly. I feel like— well, I believe in 100% in what I'm doing. My— the need for me to be home, I believe in it 100% because I want to make sure that my family eats well. I want to make sure that our home is an atmosphere where there's love and there's relationship and there's growth and there's, you know, education. I just feel like that's— I'm so needed at home.

Mm-hmm.

Jason, you're at home too.

Yeah, we're all at home.

Forget just— that's just a woman being home. You're home too. Yeah. Did you have that?

But you weren't home at first. No.

Did you have that same conviction or did it just happen and, oh, I can work from home. This is fun.

Yeah. I mean, I think that was the goal for me to work from home was to quit my job, my career.

Wow.

In the office. In the office. And then what was your career? So I was a computer drafter.

Okay.

That's why I went to school for. Just drop like blueprints for a company. And I did that for 17 years. And, you know, just doing the same thing over and over, it was a really easy job. I mean, it was—

you get paid good.

I get paid decent. I don't think it was like the greatest, but it was enough to, you know, pay the bills. And she could, she could quit if she wanted to. And so, you know, it was—

we had— what were you thinking when she was wanting to quit?

I mean, it's scary because you're— yeah, because we would lose that side of the income.

But at that time, it's kind of— we needed— people needed two incomes, didn't they?

Yeah.

But then location, Southern California, right?

But then we were kind of weighing out, like, because we, you know, typically, you know, both parents work and then, um, you drop off the child at the daycare. And that caught— that was costing a lot of money for the daycare. And you don't really realize it until you actually have to do it. And you're like, okay, wait a minute, what if you just quit? And then we, we don't have to take her to daycare and that would save this much money. And then so we started to try to think more minimally as far as living minimally, you know, went down to one car, you know.

Yeah.

And, and try to cut back on what we're doing, you know, get rid of cable TV, you know, just stuff that just were—

you were doing all this in California.

Yeah.

What'd your swing dance friends think?

Slowly they stopped coming around.

Yeah. Well, you know, it's wild because, I mean, yeah, it was during around all that time, all that happening, you know, after, during chemo and after chemo, you know, then like I stopped drinking. I didn't feel like I was a big drinker or anything, but like, you know, you'd go out and have drinks, but like after you stop drinking, then the next thing you know, like, slowly friends that you would hang out with, they don't want to hang out with you no more. You know, I'm still a fun guy even though it's all about the drinking.

He's so 10 times more fun without the drinking.

Yeah, I don't know, it just seemed like kind of that was happening to you. Like, so I think maybe that—

I don't know if that was a reason, but like, she's quitting the drinking at the same time.

What's that?

You're on the same page with all this?

I didn't really drink, but yeah.

So you were, of course, were on board then. Who cares? He's going to quit drinking.

It didn't bother me, but I just, I don't know. I just never really got into it.

But okay. Yeah.

I love dancing.

Yeah, we just would go out, but like that kind of slowed down and we started to stop going out as much.

We felt like the things that we, the things that we had and that we stored and we just never looked at all the antiques that we bought, like they didn't matter to us anymore. Like it just wasn't. I mean, we still enjoy like history. Jason and I love history, but just like things, they just were, just felt so cluttered in our life. Um, so yeah, we started—

and that was after cancer. Yeah. Like cancer just really like took the scales off of the eyes and just—

oh yeah. But it was slow. It was slow. So probably by the time Penelope was born, we were just kind of really—

yeah, we had a garden going deep into like starting to homestead. Yeah. You know, try to figure out how to make jams and jellies.

And so when did you have that conversation with your doctor about what to do? Now, like after cancer, after 6 months, did he— is this a meeting in the office?

And he's— yeah, after, you know, you take the last scan and last CAT scan or PET scan and, and they say, okay, you're good. I guess 6 months is like the standard for this type of cancer. Just 6 months of chemo. That's all you should need. And so, you know, every other week I was getting chemo and, and could you work during chemo? Yeah. I mean, my work was very helpful to me. Like, they were very supportive. No, I was going in the office.

He wasn't going in like every day. They gave him a lot of time off.

Like, I have chemo right after that for like pretty much a whole week. I'd be sick, you know, throwing up every day. Like, it was, it was bad. So during that time, they were like, don't come to work. Like, Yeah, you know, but they were still paying me, which they didn't have to do.

Plus you had some vacation and then they allowed you some time.

They worked with me, which was super helpful and thankful for them. So what was I saying?

We were talking about the meeting with the doctor at the end.

Yeah, you did the 6 months of chemo after your last scan.

So yeah, after the last scan, You know, I was like, because I always thought like, okay, what now? You know, like I asked the oncologist, so what now? You know, I did all this. I mean, it's such an emotional thing of going to chemo and feeling good and all these things. And, you know, it was almost like she just didn't know what to say. She was just like, well, just go back. You're going to feel better. Go back to your normal life. You know, just it'll be like it never happened.

That's interesting.

And so I just always thought that didn't sit right with us. Like, I felt at the time, I mean, looking back at it now, I always think like we were trying— it's like we needed her to tell us what to do now. Like, I needed that doctor to tell me Okay, this is what you should be doing. You should be eating this, cutting out that, take these vitamins, and you should be healthy. Like, I was waiting for that and she didn't tell us that.

And so you should move out and you should move out of California.

Yeah, you need some chickens, you need a couple of pigs.

Get away from—

Yeah, she didn't tell us that. So, so then right then it was just like, okay, maybe Why have we, you know, maybe we should try to figure this out. Like, because I really feel like we shouldn't be going back to how we were as far as eating. And I think for like maybe the year after chemo, I mean, I was feeling pretty good. I mean, after going through 6 months of chemo and after that wears off, like, you feel great. Like, I was— my hair was growing back. I was feeling awesome. You know, I started running.

You felt so bad during chemo.

Yeah.

That when you no longer have the poison in your body, You're like, I can do this. Your body's like, we're going to make it.

Totally. I mean, it's all of that. You know, I started running. I was, I was being more active and, you know, and that's when we kind of started taking over our own health, started questioning our food and reading labels and stuff like that, you know? And then once you start questioning what's in the back of this can of tomato soup, then you start questioning, hey, do I Do I really like my job?

Is that really healthy for me?

Yeah.

Like, yeah, what's going on here? And you start questioning things like that, and then next thing you know, that snowballs into, into other stuff.

But, uh, yeah, I do have to ask this, and you might not know the answer, but did you ever— do you know why you got cancer? Like, could you ever pinpoint anything?

No. No, there was no I don't think they gave me an answer.

I don't think it's like one of those things you just won't ever know this side of heaven.

No, I won't ever know.

He got it so we can go through this life.

Yeah.

This is the reason right here.

Yeah.

Live this lifestyle that we're living now.

Yeah. I don't know. I think everything happens for a reason. I think this is— that's one of the reasons is because he showed us like, hey, you— there's another path.

You're in the wrong direction.

Yeah.

Like there's a totally different path for you guys. You need to go that way. I think that's the real reason.

Yeah.

So when did you say, okay, well, when did you say, I got to be— well, she's, she's at home, you're working, you're starting to quit. Oh, and this one I'm going to ask. You wanted to start questioning things and you wanted to figure this out for yourself, what was the first thing? Can you remember the first thing you researched or looked up online or questioned?

Yeah, I think, um, so since my office job was so easy, like, I'd probably literally work like an hour a day, and for the rest of the time I was just online doing stuff, like, just searching for things, how, like, How do I get out of this doctor's office?

This is what people do in the office. Okay. I've never held an office job. I don't know what people do. Like, I'm so curious about it.

When I was pregnant with Penelope and I worked at the university, I had an office job and I probably worked an hour a day.

Really?

And I was just like bored out of my mind. I used to go around asking people, what can I do for you? How can I help you with your job? They're like, I have nothing either.

I'm getting paid to just like surf the web.

So anyway.

So I remember sitting in my office on my downtime and I would just search for different things of like, I don't know, like how to find land, you know, because I knew like maybe we, I don't know, at this point we're just kind of like talking about it, like finding some land somewhere.

But then I land. Why land?

I don't know.

I felt like we needed like an acre that came before like Is this milk bad for me?

Like, is what—

that was like one of the very first things, you know, you talked about, start reading the label. You started— I mean, there's going from conventional to organic, but for you and your heart, one of the very first things was we got to get an acre of land.

Well, I think what brought that up for me is because I think we're— I think I remember one time going to the grocery store and seeing like a Mother Earth News Fair magazine, and they said The 1.5-acre homestead. And it was like a drawing of it because I didn't like— I knew maybe we should maybe raise some chickens.

Okay.

I mean, we didn't know anything about it, so I was like, how big of a land do we need for this stuff? So I see this magazine and it says 1.5 acres, and I see a nice pretty picture of like a cow and chickens. It is so perfect. Everything's square. Like Square Garden.

Yes.

And the house is beautiful. Yeah. And there's like flowers growing up it.

We had a little tiny garden, you know, a little backyard garden. And, you know, I think our, our ambition is always like, can we grow? Can we, can we do this in a little bit bigger scale? Can we grow enough food for ourselves?

Yeah.

And it's like, you know, after seeing a picture like that, I'm like, okay, maybe that, that's what we need. Like, that's what size we need. An acre, acre and a half. And so I remember just doing searches online like that. And then I also, you know, we started seeing like back of labels, but that was more like vegetables, you know, back of a can of veggies, you know. But I thought like, what about meat? Are we supposed to be eating meat? Should I go vegan? Like, is that healthy? I mean, I hear all these healthy people like eating vegetables. They seem healthy. Like, should I be juicing that? You know, all these things. And then I was like, well, what's healthy chicken? You know, I remember, I think I, I don't know what came up, probably like on something came up on a website or something, said pasture-raised poultry, pasture poultry. I was like, what's pasture poultry? I remember doing a search on Google, what's pasture poultry, and going down the rabbit hole and going down that rabbit hole. And then that was amazing because I had never heard of that and I didn't really know what that was. you know, I think the only thing that popped up at that time— this was what, 2017, 2018— was, uh, Polyface Farm. Joe Salton popped up. I was like, are you kidding me? Like, if I want to buy pasture poultry chicken, I have to go to Polyface Farm in Virginia? We're in California. Like, okay, that's never gonna happen. You know, that was the only farm that was popping up on website at that time that I found. And so then I— oh, Joel Salatin wrote a book, Pasture, Poultry, Profits. And so I bought that book and I probably read that book in like 2 days. And I don't read— I don't read books.

He listens to audiobooks.

Audiobooks maybe. But like, that was like one of the first books I like read like that. And I was like, oh my gosh, this like opened up my mind to what things were like, what's a chicken tractor and all that stuff. And so And then I thought, okay, we need some land. We need some land somewhere. You know, let's, let's try to— let's— maybe we could do this for ourselves because I was kind of pumped about that whole process of raising chickens like that. Um, and then, you know, during around that time, uh, there was nowhere really around us that we found that was doing any of this kind of stuff. I mean, we lived just outside of L.A., so it wasn't like huge amounts of land anywhere. So then we started a garden because we're just like, okay, we're reading all these labels, but honestly, we're not going to really know what's in our food unless we do it ourselves. So how do we do that? You know, so, you know, buy some tomato plant starts at the hardware store and let's just put them in the ground and see what happens, you know? And then growing that first tomato is like, wow, you know, so empowering. Um, I still have pictures of growing our first tomato, and we are— Penelope, she was maybe 1 at that time. And just seeing that, and that's what we fell in love with also. And then we used to— that's, I think, right then is when we started joking around of like finding some land somewhere. I mean, because it became a joke. It was like a joke, like, whoa, be cool if we had land and we could do chickens and we could do all this stuff. And they're like, yeah, I don't know how that's going to happen. Like, it's not going to be around here if we do. And all our family's in that area. So that's another thing. It's like we would never, never leave our family.

We grew up here, born and raised.

Were you not finding an acre in California?

Not affordably. And there's not like land where you could farm. Not where—

I mean, you'd probably have to go like an hour or two away from your area, right?

Yeah, an hour or two away.

The city. It's concrete jungle. Yeah, it's not—

they have to go so far.

It doesn't look like how it does out here.

I needed that acre, that perfect acre and a half.

Yeah, I know.

So when you were searching for that, I couldn't do it in our little backyard.

No.

Okay.

I mean, looking back at it now, like, yeah, I could have— we could have done something in that.

Yeah.

You know, like a little market garden, you know, something. And people are doing it now, but after the fact. But during that time, I was like, I didn't even think of that.

Honestly, but we wanted to raise animals too. And I don't think we could have done that. We could have grown all the veggies we wanted, but like we wanted to raise animals and be somewhere where we could find that. Yeah.

And I mean, at the same time too, I wanted out of my office job. So deep down I really just wanted out of my office job, but I don't think I knew how to do that.

In California.

Yeah.

So you had to move to North Carolina to get out of the office job?

Yeah, it was like, yeah, I mean, that's fine.

I mean, I'm just, I'm making sure I'm following the story, right?

That's correct.

Well, it doesn't like, it makes sense on paper, but yeah.

Well, no, I mean, that makes sense. Like in your mind, you couldn't stay in California and not work your office job.

Right.

You had to, you had to like have like a very big shift. It had to be a move. It couldn't just be like, okay, I'm not going to work this office job and do something else.

Did you ever search for an acre?

In California?

Yeah, we did.

We did. We tried.

We wanted to stay in California. We initially wanted—

What was the closest you were going to be able to find an acre?

It was probably a couple of hours away, maybe.

Yeah.

But You know, then was it even going to be affordable? That's another thing. Like, yeah, you never really look for an acre, but then once you do, it's like, oh my gosh, you need like half a million dollars.

And then also we were still like, well, then what are you going to do for work? Because you still kind of have to work, right?

Yeah. Oh, I see. Yeah.

What was I going to do for work? Like, was I going to commute 2 hours away?

We hadn't figured that part out yet. You know, we had this dream, but so we're trying to get our costs.

Yeah. So Yeah. So it became a big joke of finding land and we tried to find land and— but maybe I could still stay at my job and— but it just wasn't working.

Like working from home. Like, what do they call it? Remote working. That wasn't a thing yet.

No.

See, now, if it would have been a thing, do you think that that would have been what you guys would have done?

So I tried to do that. I brought it up to them and they weren't having it. They were like—

They want you to sit like you could have totally done that from home. Oh, yeah, I could totally. That's why I did.

and I presented to them like, this is what you got to pay me less. You pay me less.

They wouldn't do it.

And they were just like, they were just like, nope, bye.

Do that. Do you know if that company—

I quit this year.

Oh wow.

You were saying this year I want to work from home. I'm going to need to leave.

Well, yeah, that was my— yeah, I was trying to keep the job but stay, but live in North Carolina.

Oh, well, wait, we jumped really forward.

Yeah, I'm sorry.

Hold on a second.

You, uh, You couldn't find land there, so. And you didn't want to leave your family.

So, right.

How does North Carolina even pop up? There's 49 other states.

48 other states.

We looked around and we kind of thought, well, let's just go visit a couple of places.

Yeah.

Well, yeah, we looked at California, we looked at Arizona, New Mexico. We love New Mexico. We almost moved there. That didn't work out. And then we knew a couple that lived out.

You drove to these places or flew?

We drove. We would vacation.

Oh, well, North Carolina, we— Arizona and New Mexico are very close to California. Yes.

Yeah. So, so we didn't know what was— how it was going to work or what. So within that 6 years of after chemo, we started selling stuff in our house, right? Started selling our things, started living more minimally, went down to one car, all that. And next thing you know, we had pretty much nothing in our house. We had maybe a couch.

It was like 4 years or something.

Yeah, we hardly had anything in the house. We're looking around, we're like, okay, we sold a lot of our stuff, like all of our collections of stuff.

Things didn't matter anymore.

Nothing. Like, we just wanted all your clothes that you collected.

Yeah, I had a lot of clothes. I had a lot of designer clothes. And I was like, well, if we're going to— if we might do this, I'm not going to be like the best dressed farmer with only dry clean clothes only. So I sold them all. I got rid of them.

We didn't know what was— how this was going to work or what, you know, I didn't know. I was still working. And so eventually it was like we had our kitchen table in our house and we're like, okay, if we sell this kitchen table, then I think we're pretty serious about finding land somewhere. We're not going to have anywhere to eat. You know, so we sold that kitchen table and then shortly thereafter we sold our— that was our first home that we bought when we got married. We sold the house and the plan was because my mom lived like on the next street over and we're like, we're going to move in with mom. We're going to sell this house and for a year we're going to take that year to look for a place. We don't know where, we don't know how. Or what, but continue to save money and live with mom and figure out like the job situation.

This was minimalism before it was cool too.

Oh yeah. Oh, it was minimalism. Like we were—

who wants to move back in with mom?

I know, right?

She's very sweet. I love her.

Oh, very supportive. She was like, yeah, come live with me. My mom wants me to live with her.

Of course.

Of course.

Yeah.

Now that I'm a mom, it's the ultimate minimalism.

Yeah.

Now that my children might, you know, they're getting older. If one of my kids with their wife and their kid were like, can we come back in and move in? I'd be like, yes.

Yeah.

Well, didn't we have a plan? Wasn't it like just 6 months or something? And it ended up being a year?

Yeah.

Yeah.

We were like, just 6 months. We're just going to save money and like, look for land and it'll be nearby probably and just figure it out. And then it ended up being a year. But she was very gracious and very kind. Let us stay.

Yeah. I mean, even within that year, we're like, you know, I don't think this is going to be I don't think we could do this. You know, we even talked about, oh, maybe we should just get an apartment, like, and just maybe hold off this dream till another 5 years or 10 years, whatever.

Right. So, so how old's Penelope at this time? 4? 2.

2.

Okay. And you broke it to her and Lorraine about wanting land. How'd you take that, Lorraine?

I remember him coming home from work and saying, I don't think it's healthy for me to be sitting down at a desk in an office, in a building under artificial light all day. I want to get my hands in the soil. And I was like, oh, oh, you should go for it. Like, okay, what does that look like?

Were you always this way? What way? Just flexible.

We're always both on board with this. Whatever.

Flexible and open-minded.

I feel like after your husband has cancer, goes through chemo, and he wants a change of life.

Oh, okay.

Yes. Let's do whatever you want to do. I mean, it wasn't like he was like, let's all jump off a bridge. But he was like, let's, let's change things. And I was like, okay, sure. Like, what does that look like? We did not know it was move all the way across the country.

Um, so you guys were looking at Arizona and New Mexico, like close by land.

Yeah. After we realized California was too expensive, there really isn't a whole lot of land. I mean, unless you go northern. So we were like, if we're going to go that far, we might as well go out. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So we looked there, we went on vacation and just kind of looked around.

And what would that even— I can't even imagine homesteading. I mean, I know we visited that in 2017, but Like, there's no water in California. Well, or in Arizona or New Mexico. It's pretty dry.

That's why we moved out here.

We moved to North Carolina.

So is that what you guys did? You like looked and you were like, it's literally desert, right?

But you don't know those things until—

we're naive in that aspect.

Exactly. You, you really visit the state and you're like, where's your— like, where's the soil?

Yeah, all I saw was an acre of land and I was like, this is what I don't care if it was all dirt.

I would think that Mother Earth News would be here.

And then I think North Carolina was the last place we visited because we had some, we had, we knew somebody over in Hot Springs that we kind of sort of, we weren't, we didn't know them very well, but we knew them. And, um, we visit out here and we're like, where are the sprinklers? Nobody has to like turn on sprinklers, like to water.

And like, Lowe's doesn't even have a sprinkler section.

Yeah.

I was like, oh my gosh. It's like kind of wild.

Everything is just so much water.

Yeah, everything is just so fertile here. We couldn't believe it. And it was just like— I remember walking and going, this is just like Anne of Green Gables. It's so beautiful. It's so picturesque.

You came to North Carolina only because you had a contact here.

Right.

And we initially came just on vacation. We spent, I think it was like a week out here.

And why not Tennessee or Maine or Georgia?

Because we didn't really know anybody over there.

Virginia, where you had heard about. Joel, you just knew somebody in North Carolina.

We just knew somebody out here and they would tell us about the area and we'd be like, oh, sounds cool. Like maybe we should go visit.

And out of all the places we visited, not that we visited that many, but you know, all the little areas that we visited in, you know, Arizona, New Mexico, other places in California, North Carolina, the people, we, I felt like we hit it off right away. We felt like everything we have been trying to talk about that we are so excited and passionate about. To our other swing dancing, beer drinking friends, they were like, what? That's weird. And when we came here, everyone was like, yes, we do it too. And so it was just like, we have found our people.

Yeah.

So I found your community.

Yeah. And then there was homeschoolers and tiny house people and minimalists. And I just was like, this is where we need to be.

Southern hospitality.

So that's real. When you hit that moment, yeah, of this is where we need to be, what was your mind thinking though about it being so far from your family? You know what I mean? Like, what was that moment where you were like, this is where we need to be, but then like the realization of like, oh, wait a minute, that's a really long distance from California.

I feel like we believe, we believed at the time, and we still do believe that 100%. We believed so deeply and strongly in that this was going to give us a healthy lifestyle. This was going to be so good for us, for our marriage, for our spiritual life, for our raising up our daughter, for our nutrition, for our health. This is going to be so good for us. We believed in it 100% that we had to make the move. We just had to do it.

It was just so far away. I know it was like— it was hard. We were like, yeah, we're not going to be like maybe like a day's drive for mom, you know, but we had to live across the country.

You have to be like a travel day.

Yeah, it's like a whole airplane day. I know. It's crazy.

Or if you drive, it's like 3 or 4 days. Yeah.

Yes. It's far.

It was hard. It was hard when we first moved out here.

That's why I tried to get my job to let me work remote.

Just in case.

You know, just—

You were going to keep your job and work it from North Carolina.

I mean, realistically, yeah, we need— I needed a job. And I tried to find a job out here before we moved, but it just didn't happen. And then we also talked about maybe getting an RV and traveling and looking for places. And then I thought that would just waste— not waste, but that would— all of our money would, would be gone on traveling. And I felt we didn't have that much money saved for a place.

Plus, growing was important. Like growing, that would waste time. Like we wanted to like get started on growing.

We're ready to do it. We're on board. We're just like, you know, I feel like I don't want to travel in an RV. I feel like I was wasting our time and we just want to just go do it.

So you came out here to visit and how long from the time that you visited till you moved here?

So it was like, we, I think we visited for a week and then I think 6 months went by and then we're just like, we keep thinking about North Carolina and we kept talking about it and we're like, oh yeah, remember this and remember that.

Yeah.

And then it was like, because, you know, when we came to visit, we didn't look at no properties. We just came to— because honestly, the furthest east we've ever been was New Mexico.

Yeah.

In our whole lives.

Yeah.

We've never lived anywhere else but Southern California and never vacationed anywhere else.

So it was like a whole new world.

Oh, it was.

It was like a foreign country. It was.

Emerald City over here. I mean, So, you know, so we vacationed for a week. So we went back, 6 months went by and I was like, you know what, we're still keep talking about North Carolina. And it was weird. Like we had kept all getting all these, like, I felt like these like green lights that we're noticing, you know, of like I would see a billboard that said North Carolina on it. Like I would see like driving down the traffic in front of me, the license plate from North Carolina. Or you'd like, I'm like, oh my gosh, somebody and they're from North Carolina.

Was like, yeah.

And so I remember Jason was like, we met somebody and we turned to each other like, North Carolina.

I don't remember Jason at one point, he was like, so are we going to do this or not? Like he was, he doesn't like to mess around. He was like, I'm tired of talking about this. Like, are we going to do this or not? Well, I'm sure like your job too. Like, are we going to, what are we doing?

Well, so I was like, okay, we're never going to really know. I can only go look on Craigslist or something. Cause we didn't know the area really. You know, we didn't know. What if we bought somewhere it wasn't?

So wait, you were looking at property on Craigslist?

Yeah, Craigslist.

I mean, Craigslist is now like, yeah, oh yeah, yeah, no, but then it was more popular.

Yeah.

Were there actually housing listings? I don't even know.

There was some on there, yeah.

Wow.

But it was hard because we didn't know, like, yeah, we didn't know the area or like, so it's really hard.

So after 6 months, I I was like, okay, I'm going to fly down there on a weekend. And I, and that's why I flew down and back to North Carolina. And she trusted me to go look at properties.

Pick out a property for us. It was like back in the olden days, like you read about Little House on the Prairie and like Pa goes out and he looks for land and then he comes back in the covered wagon. He's like, I found land. And Ma and the children would just hop in the covered wagon and put all their stuff back there and go. It was like that.

It was, it was, it was like a great adventure is about to happen.

A great adventure. It was like so exciting.

So I had—

So what year is this? 2016? '15?

Yeah, '16.

'16?

It was like, it was like the end of '15.

Yeah. Oh yes. The end of '15.

November of 2015.

When you, when you went out to look for a house.

Fall time.

Perfect time to come.

Yeah.

And so I had a, I went with a realtor. And he showed me like, I don't know, 15 properties on a weekend. We just went boom, boom, boom, right after another. And we had a criteria of what we wanted and, you know, at least an acre, right? And we saw some— I saw some amazing properties and some of them were way out there.

Yeah.

You know, we didn't want to be, you know, I still didn't know what to do for work. So I was like, I wanted to be close to a little city area. And so we don't want to be too far out. So like, All these properties are— some of these properties are really out there. They're beautiful. But man, they're too— I feel like they're really far and more really rural. And so last property, it was on the market, then it was off the market. So I just asked him, well, what about this? It was like an acre and a half with a mobile, had a single wide mobile on it, right? Rundown mobile.

He would send me pictures. He would text me pictures of like the property he would go and look at. And I was like, not the mobile, not the mobile.

Yeah, because not the mobile.

You're like, you know, I think mobiles have this reputation of being run down and, and we didn't want that. And because that was our mentality because we're, you know, from California. So that's the last property I saw and I was like, this is it. Oh, this is it.

So what were the houses on the other properties like?

They were run down too, but they were like old, old farmhouses. I mean, they were pretty run down. Um, some of them were just straight land, and honestly, I didn't know anything about nothing.

So you're like, how— what are we going to live in?

Yeah, I was like, I don't know anything about building a house or building anything. And what are we going to— you know, we can't live on straight land. We're going to live in a tent. And we were ready to live in a tent.

We were ready.

So that was the last property we saw. And I was like, I think this is it. And the property was sitting there for like a year. Somebody had it as like a rental, and we ended up getting that one.

But so did you buy it that weekend?

I did, but we still didn't have enough money to buy it straight out.

So you had to get a loan.

Fairly decent price. Yeah, we still had to get a loan.

And I think because we were cautious with our money because we weren't sure what he was going to do for work. So we were like, well, we can't just like—

I wanted to— I had a savings because the plan was like, I'm going to have 6 months of savings. So if I don't work, have a job for 6 months, at least we'll have enough to pay the bills. So that's why we had to take a loan on the land. So we're paying that. Plus I knew I had some money there.

So then we moved in the spring, April. It was April 2016.

Yeah, maybe a few months after that. Yeah, 6 months later. Yeah, we moved in and, you know, I still had my job, so it was like I didn't know what else to do. And so I was like, I'm just going to quit. I'm just going to quit and we're just going to move. And if it's meant to be, it's meant to be. And that's what we did. And that was a huge decision. It was like, yeah, that was a traumatizing decision for me because I mean, I was surprised. I'm surprised I even did that till this day because I'm like, I'm very— my old me was probably very comfortable. Once he gets in a routine, I am very comfortable just staying in that routine. and that's it. This is what I do. And so that job became super comfortable for me. And just to like leave like that, you know, I didn't just quit, you know, put in 2 weeks. They were actually a good company to work for. But just to leave a comfortable job and you leave vacation, you leave medical, you leave benefits and, you know, Christmas bonuses and 401(k)s is gone.

The comfortable lifestyle, the, the, I don't know what I'm trying to say. Like the, the safety net.

Yeah.

Yeah.

All that.

Into nothing.

Into nothing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And then we have to leave. We have to leave everybody too. So it was not like—

So your whole support system.

Yeah, it wasn't like the— it's not like, okay, if this doesn't work out, well, we could just move back in with Mom. I mean, we could, but then we have to, like, move across the country again, you know? So. It was almost like I had— we had to purposely remove ourselves from our area.

You had to burn the bridge.

And then it's like, okay, you have no choice, but this has to work.

Yeah.

And then so the goal is just to— we wanted just to try to figure out how to work for ourselves, stay at home, grow good food and be happy and raise our daughter in a different environment than how we grew up.

So she's 5 at this time.

We moved here and she was right about to turn 5.

Okay.

So she was 4. Yeah.

Yeah.

You had this attitude of we're willing to live in a tent, so I'm thinking you're probably going to make it.

Well, I, I was really I think I'm really like, if you really want something, I think you can make it happen. Like, if you got to, you have to be willing to do stuff.

Yeah.

That maybe otherwise you, if you're not willing to do certain things, then maybe it won't work. You know, like I was willing to go deliver pizzas.

Yeah.

You know, I was willing to go whatever, whatever I had to do just to make it work. Yeah.

You could have done that. How much, how much money did you have to live on? How much time did you have before you would have to get a job?

Well, we had 6 months worth of savings.

Okay.

So that would pay your bills and.

Yeah.

And like, like cell phone, be enough to buy groceries and things like that.

Yeah. And we were pared down to like nothing. And it's the 3 of us.

Yeah.

You know, but, you know, we still wanted to start a homestead and we had to remodel the house, the mobile.

Yeah, it was bad.

It wasn't terrible.

Yeah, it was bad.

We could sleep in it and, you know, we slept on a boat.

Did you have a car? Was there carpet in it? So you had to rip all the carpet out?

Oh yeah.

You ripped out the kitchen?

Kitchen carpet. We did everything all inside the, you know, put wood floors, paint. Outside we never got around to doing anything with it, but, um, the inside was completely redone.

When did you start looking for work and what was it? I think it was your first job.

I think it was 3 months. After 3 months I was like, you know, I mean, I got paid every Friday with that job, right? Every Friday you get a paycheck. And so that first week I didn't get a paycheck after leaving, it was just like, okay, don't panic, don't panic, you know? And then a month went by, 2 months went by, 3 months went by and you're like, man, I'm about to go nuts right now because like, it's scary.

Nothing's coming in. Yeah, nothing's coming in. It's all going out.

Exactly. And so 3 months came by and I thought, you know what, I probably should start looking for something. 'cause nothing's coming in and I don't want to wait till like the last minute. And what if I can't find anything? And I guess me just thinking like, how hard is it to find work out here? Like I can find work, you know? And I had a hard time finding work. I mean, I tried to go back to an office job. I looked at different various office places around here that I was doing the same thing. And honestly, that's what I figured I would be doing. I was like, you know what? I'm probably going to end up working at another computer drafter job. But over there in North Carolina, you know, I was fine with that. But we had land and we could grow food at least. So I tried to look and I couldn't find anything. And then I thought, well, there's this Uber thing. I could drive around Uber, you know, and if you ever want to get to know a little town, become an Uber driver. If you don't, if you just first move, like we first moved to the area, I was like, I didn't know where nothing was.

Oh yeah. It's a good way to get around.

It is.

And to meet people too.

And to meet people.

Yeah.

So you started being an Uber driver?

Yeah, I was an Uber driver. At first I started baby steps. I was like, you know, I don't know if I want to do it at night. And started doing it during the day and, you know, basically just picking up people going from work to the office or going for lunch or something. It was pretty easy. And I was like, I'm going to do it at night, you know, let's do it on the weekend. And that's, that's another thing.

I was going to say, that's a whole nother—

Yeah, you come home with the wild stories.

Yeah. And that's, yeah, it's just, yeah. As the night progressed, people got more drunker.

Right. So it was the nightlife that you were kind of dealing with as opposed to like just everyday people.

And then kind of at that same time though, um, You know, our family was like, they're very supportive of us moving. They just want us to be happy, you know. They were just like, okay. But I still think maybe they didn't really understand why we wanted to move out here. Um, and we're always wondering like, what are you guys doing? You know, what are you guys doing out there? So I would always send them little video clips of my phone and just, you know, text mom or whatever, uh, and say, hey, look at our garden, you know, look at Penelope, because we took their granddaughter away. Yeah, you know. And so after a while, I started posting stuff on YouTube, like our own YouTube channel.

So it would be one place instead of sending 5 different text messages to like 5 different people.

Yeah, that got old. And so we, so we kind of started our YouTube channel that way of just sharing it with our family. And then so that, you know, and then started like doing Uber and then—

You also did the buses too.

Yeah, we started.

You did do the buses with Jeff.

Yeah, we're working with—

that was where we met you for the first time.

Yeah.

Yep.

Was that— it was at the bus?

Yeah, that was— that was here. Yeah, that was here.

No, we met— well, the first time we met you was at Noah's funeral.

Oh yeah, that's right, that's right.

And then— but you were working for him, we just never were there at the same time, right?

That's right.

So, and then you did come here, you did come here and work a little bit, and you guys were gluten-free, and that's how I felt like you and I started talking.

Yeah, cuz we were— cuz we were gluten-free too. Yeah, cuz I feel like we brought sandwiches or something, and I was like, where did you get that gluten-free bread?

Yeah.

And I was like, here's my dish, it's gluten-free too. Cuz it wasn't a thing.

No, it wasn't.

When we first moved here, it wasn't. We were like, nobody else—

gluten-free is much more popular and easily more accessible.

That's what we noticed too. Like when we left California, there was gluten-free sections at the grocery store.

Store in California, but not here.

It wasn't here.

Yeah, so I went gluten-free in '13, and like, I literally laid on my couch and just cried because I was like, when am I ever gonna eat sourdough or whatever? And you know what, I would buy sourdough from California.

Oh really?

Shipped here. Oh, okay. And I would buy these rolls because that's all they really had at the time. You know, it was a new company, and, um, they did these sourdough rolls. And so I would buy a pack, and they were so expensive. I remember was like— and this was, you know, 2014, 2013.

Oh, that's probably— is her.

Oh, it is.

Did, um, did Annie ever text you?

She might have. Hold on, sorry.

Oh, there she is.

Um, so they would get these rolls, they— we— they— sourdough rolls, and I would— I froze them. Because I was like, I can't, you know, I'm not gonna eat them that fast. So it was like $30 for 6 rolls. It was ridiculous. And, um, I would like think about it for like 3 days before I would eat one. That was like my— that was my goal, like, because it was just so hard to get gluten-free sourdough.

Yeah.

Okay, it's gluten-free sourdough. And that— because that was my thing, is I was just— I went gluten-free in like September of 2013, and I was like, just like, I'm never going to eat bread again. This is so sad. What am I going to do? You know, like, what do we do for birthdays? What are you know, like, how is this going to work? And, and Justin goes, stop feeling sorry for yourself and just buy some gluten-free sourdough on the internet. Surely there's some somewhere.

Yeah.

I was like, all right. And so I bought some. And then when I saw the price though, I was like, this is crazy. Who can afford that? Yeah, so that's why I was like, I would think about it for 3 days before I would commit to eating one, and I was only allowed one a week. That's funny, because it was just too expensive. We had no money. We had no money back then, you know, and we couldn't afford it. And now I'm like, I can just make my own gluten-free bread. Now there's recipes. Yeah, yeah, there just weren't recipes out there like there is now.

I'm not being rude, I'm going to look up your first video. Do you still have your first videos up? Was it on Sew the Land?

Same time?

Yeah.

Why did you call it Sew the Land? So this was strategically share videos with my family.

It was originally S-E-W, Sew the Land.

S-E-W, like sewing.

Like, so little play on words here.

Yeah. So, and not I sew.

Because I feel like when I feel like Stacy, the bus Stacy told me it's like Sew the Land, S-E-W. Yeah.

Okay. But then oldest video is 5 seconds long.

Yeah, we were so good.

I guess you're right. You're just— these are texts to your family. Pasture eggs mobile.

They're like Instagram Reels now.

That's RV Industries plan, isn't it? That's the A-frame. RV Industries A-frame.

You had a pastured egg mobile was your first video.

I meant for it to be movable, but it really wasn't.

I want to look at it. I want to actually watch it. Yeah, it's just him moving it.

That's all it is. It's really quick.

And you, you fast forward it.

So it was Show the Land, SEW, because we, we wanted to go and like repair the land.

He needs the key to something.

Oh, um, you want to move in the way? Oh, sorry.

Yeah, that's funny. Jason, you have 10,000 views on that, just moving this thing from one spot to another. You should go home and see how much money you you've made on that video? Pasture—

I haven't looked. I don't know.

At the time, if it was 10 CPM, you've made $100.

Yeah, it's wild.

I mean, uh, pasture poultry—

I'm just gonna have to get on my phone.

I know. Uh, moving the chicken tractor, 13 seconds. Chicken tractor moving, 9 seconds. Boy, you really like moving this. You really like sharing that with your family.

Yeah.

Portable chicken fencing, 14 seconds. Here we go. Beet Harvest. It's got Penelope in it. 4 minutes and 10 seconds. What's happening? What's happening? I, I don't know, because the next one— what's that?

Your family's like, can we get longer than a 5-second video?

11 minutes and 34 seconds.

It was me getting maybe more comfortable, like, who's going to watch this?

Yeah, there was—

did people start watching you at that time?

People were commenting that I didn't know who were commenting, and yeah, you know, that kind of got weird. Because you're like, who's this person?

You're like, you do have 32 comments on that first video.

Which one was it that they commented on?

Oh, I don't know. I mean, you know, just random comments, you know, then you're like, oh, that's hilarious.

So on your very first video, one of the comments, wow, a long journey.

It was a long journey.

5 seconds. Yes. I know, it's 5 seconds.

Should have come with a warning. Don't blink.

Don't miss it.

Yeah. Those have to be newer comments, huh?

Yeah.

They gotta be newer.

I've played it over many times and still can't stop giggling. Those were the days to remember how far you've come and be proud that you shared all the learning you began.

That's funny.

This is a keeper and a blessing to have forever. That was 4 years ago.

That was just—

this is trying to find a really old—

now wait a minute, this one's on— you guys got to hear this. This one's on moving the chicken tractor. This is 13 seconds long. Okay, very funny. Thanks for sharing. I discovered your channel yesterday and decided to watch your evolution. The plot thickens is one comment.

Yeah.

Hahaha. Blessings.

And hey, you got to start somewhere, man.

Everybody starts somewhere.

So, so other people started commenting and you're like, oh, even more.

Yeah. I'm like, what, man? You know, I didn't realize you could, you know, make anything from these videos.

Or when did that happen? When did you start realizing you could make money?

After a year. After a year I was doing it and I wasn't— I never focused on it. I just kind of put random videos like that.

Yeah.

And I think after the first year I made $80 the entire year. And when we made $80, I was like, wow, like, this is amazing. We made $80 for not even trying. Sorry, we made $80 for not even trying. Wow. Then it was like, okay, what if I actually tried and to maybe make these more, a little bit more thoughtful? Yeah. Maybe, you know, maybe we can make enough to pay our cell bill. Cell phone bill. Um, and then that kind of went from there.

How much did you make the second year when— second year of trying to make money?

What's that? The second—

how much did you make that second year when you tried to make money?

I don't, I don't remember. Honestly, I don't remember.

$800? $8,000?

No, it wasn't that much.

$800? No, I don't know. It might have been $500, maybe. I don't know. It was—

well, if it didn't grow like that, what made you keep doing it?

Well, you still had the bus business.

I mean, I was still juggling everything. Um, you know, I worked at a furniture company for a little bit, uh, you know, Uber, um, like furniture company. I was making like $8 an hour.

And you still did some CAD work on the side?

Yeah, I did some CAD work on the side, uh, through Craigslist. I would put in things.

You've done some of that work for me.

Yeah, I did some of your drawings for you. Yeah. And so I was juggling all kinds of stuff. I was Like I said, I was willing to do whatever it took to work for myself and figure out what that looked like. I didn't know what that looked like. But, you know, I think what opened up my eyes when I worked for that furniture company for $8 an hour and I was like, I think moved to North Carolina to work for $8 an hour for somebody else. I was like, if I could, I, I'm sure I can make $8 an hour working for myself. What would that look like?

That's a good point.

And that was when you decided, I'm going to work for myself. I'm going to be an entrepreneur. Well, I mean, did you know that, like, did you, did you know that concept? You know what I mean?

Like, no, I did not know that concept at all. I didn't. I just knew that, you know, I need to figure it out. Like, what— you know, I liked doing woodworking stuff, you know.

I—

we did a lot of craft shows when we first moved, um, making cutting boards and spoons and stuff like that. And that did pretty decent for us. And that's when I kind of— after that furniture job, and I was like, I could make that. I, I need double down on my— because all I think I really knew how to do was do cutting boards and spoons and craft shows. So I was like, I need to do more of that. And so that's when I really started doing more of that. And I was then— then that kind of like was doing really well for us and still doing that and doing other little things and then doing the school buses, did that part-time, and then also still posting stuff on YouTube. Of building the channel at the same time as well. So kind of all that I was doing, um, and just trying to pay the bills with it all. And right, somehow it was, it was working doing everything.

Um, you do make— you don't make any more spoons though?

No, that kind of— I kind of stopped doing all that.

How hard is it to make a spoon?

I mean, it's a little time-consuming. I mean, it's a spoon.

So, because maybe I want you to do a workshop so I can come learn. I mean, after a while you're like, I mean, I just want to make some spoons for myself. I don't want to make spoons for other people.

They got their own spoons. I could have been, I could have had my own spoon empire probably, but you probably could have, you know, but at the end of the day, it's still a spoon and it's like, okay, how many spoons do I want to make? Yeah, that becomes actually kind of boring. So I was like, I need to stop doing spoons here and focus on some other little things.

How can you keep, and this is like so off subject, but I mean, it's on subject, but off. How can you keep a spoon from splitting? Why did my spoon, no, it wasn't your spoon. It was another, I bought like a ladle, but then it like broke in half. Is that normal?

Did you stick it in the dishwasher?

No. Well, I didn't.

Soaking in water at all?

Probably the soaking of the water. Not from me, from other people.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because I have 5 other people who do it.

Yeah. No dishwasher, no soaking in water.

Like basically rinse it, wash it, and then immediately— yeah, immediately. Don't let it soak with other— even if it's like leaning up against other wet things.

Okay.

Um, yeah, because I bought this really— and I saw— I saw— and I don't know where I saw this ladle. It might have been from you, Lorraine. It was like a— it was like a wooden ladle, and it was so beautiful, and I was like, I must have that. And so I found one on Etsy because I don't think you were selling them anymore. Yeah. And, um, I bought this one, and it lasted a good long while, and then it was just like I was like, that stinks because I paid a lot of money for that.

Yeah, they're like a whole nother care level, like wooden items.

Yeah, maybe, maybe my wooden spoon era is for when my children are grown. Yeah, because like right now we're learning about knives and how like really you should just like use your knife, wash it, and put it away right away and not throw it in the sink. Yeah, don't put it in the sink to be like washed with everything else. Like just take the time to wash it immediately.

Kids aren't gonna do that.

But that's the thing, like I have children and I can't—

sense.

Yeah, I mean, like, we can change, but that doesn't mean that the other 5 people in our house will.

You said you're comfortable in routine. So when all the novelty wore off and you started getting into routines, you started understanding homesteading, it was like, oh my goodness, we're butchering chickens again. Has it worn off?

There's days that I'm like, man, this is boring.

It's like making soaps.

This is like, I'm bored. I don't feel like doing this today. Like, I don't have to move chickens again. Yeah, like, do I have to move this net again?

I mean, I gotta— well, because we have 8 years of you doing it, and then how many videos can you make of moving the chickens, right?

I know, like, it gets boring to me. Like, I feel like I'm trying to be like— I think I'm creative person, like more creative. And I feel like when it stops being creative for me, that's when I get bored.

Yeah.

Like, I guess the repetitiveness of something.

That's a lot of like, Justin.

It's just like, like, I don't like people. I filmed this so many times of me moving a chicken tractor. Yeah, I got to go do it again. You know, stuff like that is really— and I think we just had this conversation like the other day, like I went out there, I drove, I went out there, do chores. I was like, I don't feel like doing this today.

But then it doesn't mean you don't want to live this lifestyle or raise animals or not do it anymore. You just feel like, I don't want to film it, or this is kind of boring today.

Like, well, like I said, like, it's not like certain things are not creative. Like, but I guess I think if you're— as far as homesteading is concerned, I think if you're doing it right, it is boring.

I think I know. So, okay, so Justin says the same thing. Like, how many times do people want to see me milk the cow? You know, like, how many times? But I think that the people that we want to watch our videos want to see that boringness.

Yeah, no, I know.

Because I'm like, that's the whole point of this whole lifestyle, is to be boring.

And I guess part of me—

simple and like just the same thing, the mundane, right?

And it's almost like, well, we shouldn't care because they're watching it, they want to watch it, so why should I care?

Amen.

And they're fine.

But I do care for my sanity.

That's so funny because I'm like the same way with Justin. I'm the same way with Justin. I'm like, just film it. That's why I'm like, that's the same thing to me.

Yes, because it's still inspiring.

They're watching it, who cares?

I totally understand that, but at the same time, like, if if I'm not enthused about it.

Oh, just get over your non-enthusiasm. Just move on.

I agree, but I have so much faith in Jason that he'll make it interesting. He always does.

That's the same thing with Justin.

I guess we're more— we're not— we're, we're— Justin will say we're craftsmen, but with a little bit of art. We have to be an artist. We're artists too, or we would just settle for craft, like a plumber. A plumber can go and do plumbing for 20 years and you don't hear talk about burning out.

Why is that?

I mean, if their plumber said, I'm burned out, that would be so funny.

But maybe they enjoy conversating with the homeowners.

But see, the thing is, is that—

hold on a second.

The thing is about— I was just thinking about about this with plumbing. Like, we had a plumber come into our house, and then we had a plumber come and do the cabin. It was basically the same but also very different.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's like the same but different all the time. So that's one job like that, it's the same but different.

That's one thing. And then he would have to make a video about it too. Every—

oh my gosh, then it's challenging. This video—

Lorraine and I, I know, we can only make so many videos about about how to install it.

Just do it.

Just tell a different story while you're doing the same action.

Yeah.

This is coming from the people that aren't filming.

Or doing the chores.

No, I do do the chores. I'm just not on the cam. I'm not on video.

Oh, okay. You're not on video?

Come on.

Have you guys noticed that these two have done most of talking? And Jason and I do most of the talking on the videos.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Cameras on. We had cameras on.

These are the extroverts in person. And we're the extroverts on the camera and on stage.

Yeah, I would say so. I would say so.

Yeah. Jason turns on when there's like a camera or his own camera.

You know why? Because the camera can't talk back.

It can't ask you questions.

I see 100,000 eyes staring back at me. And I'm like, that's—

but I think, like, I've always been— I always thought— I've always been an introvert my whole life. And I feel like having a camera and talking to a camera has helped me, like, so much. Like, get out of my shell, I guess. Like, there ain't no way, like, you know, I've spoken in front of people now, like, on events or whatever. And like, there's no way I would have done that, you know, really, years ago. I just, that wasn't me. I was terrified of that. But like somehow, like when you're holding the camera and you're talking to it all day and you keep doing that over and over again, it almost, I think it kind of just brings you out and it's almost like practice, right? Like you just keep practicing to this camera. And then I think eventually it just, I think it helps you be able to talk to people.

Yeah.

It was funny when Justin, when we, you know, we had our, our own issues and he couldn't work because of the Lyme disease and this, that and the other, like physically work. And my mom said, you should be a motivational speaker. And I was like, well, one doesn't just become a motivational speaker, like, because he was— he's always been good at that. Like just talking to people one-on-one is hard for him.

Okay. I prefer one-on-one, actually. Me too. In a big group of people. Like, even at, you know, like when all of our girlfriends get together, I feel like I'm just, it's too much. But like when it's me and you, I'm, yeah, cracking jokes.

I like hanging out. Just hanging out.

See, I'm like, let's hang out with a bunch of people. I can do this. I can do like, you know, a group of 10 people. That's not too much for me. But like, put me on a stage. I'm like, yeah.

Yeah.

She had her first talk and At the end of it, she's like, my hand's so sore.

She was killing that mic.

She was strangling the mic.

My forearm muscle was so sore for like 45 minutes. It had to like relax because I was like holding on to it so tightly.

Yeah. So how did you get through the 7-year slump, the 7-year burnout for homesteading and filming? Moviemaking?

I think buying the bigger property helped.

Okay.

Because I honestly think so. We were on that 1.5 acres for 6 years, and I really feel like one of the reasons why we moved was, well, one, we wanted to grow more stuff and get bigger property and bigger animals. You know, neighbors got kind of weird over there, but It was just, uh, I felt like we had told all the stories that we wanted to tell in that 1.5 acres. Like, we're, we're done. Like, I feel like, I mean, there was still stuff to tell, but for the most part, I felt like we've done it all. What else? Is that it? Do we stop YouTube and stop filming our life and just, I go get a regular job and we still live here? Or do we continue telling stories and we get a bigger property and share that. And that's what we did. And I think that has helped a lot because it just, you know, before it was always just chickens and maybe a couple pigs. And, you know, what would it look like if we had bought a couple cows? Like, let's share that story of trying to figure that out, um, or having a bigger property. I think it'd be cool to film that, you know, and just just, I think the property helped, um, just different stories to tell. Um, and I have to remind— remember that these videos are, are still for our family, you know. Oh, like Grandma will text me often and be like, hey, I saw your video, you know. Like, that's— it's awesome, like, that she's still there and even You know, kind of almost get emotional sometimes because I know they're watching.

Yeah.

And it's like, it's like they're here, you know, or, you know, they get to see Penelope in the video, you know, stuff like that, which is— it's pretty beautiful because when it— in like, we live in this time where we could do this, you know, like, because I think about like, what if my great-great-grandpa was building adobe homes in New Mexico? Like, what if he had a YouTube channel? What if I could just go on YouTube right now and just type up his name and he pops up and he's talking to me? You know, stuff like that. Like, that's how I think about that. Or when Penelope gets older, you know, whether she likes doing this when she gets older or not, but at least she could go on there and maybe our videos are still on there and she could still watch mom and dad doing something or see how she grew up.

She will. She'll be able to.

She'll be able to show her kids.

There'll be a library of your content. And with AI, who knows, she'll be able talk to you directly, you know, and from your library, she'll be able to hear your voice.

Answer her stuff like that too. Like, I think that helps. Like, okay, this is for Grandma, you know? Like, let's show some stuff.

Yeah.

And show her what we're doing.

So when you go out to film, are you thinking of Grandma?

Oh yeah.

Are you thinking you're your audience?

I think I'm Grandma. I'm thinking— I think Grandma's right there. I think my mom's right there on the other side of that camera.

So it's still for them for Yeah, I think so.

Yeah.

Oh, neat.

Yeah. And the audience is there too.

But yeah. So what was it like then when somebody gave you your first ugly comment? That wasn't Grandma.

No, that wasn't Grandma.

I think for a long time Jason doesn't see them as ugly comments. For a long time, like, we didn't get ugly comments for a very, very long time.

I think he finally said to me, I finally got my ugly comment. Yeah, right.

But he says them like—

It's very positive.

Oh, you know, I'll just— he kind of just like laughs it off, or he like tells him like, oh, now you tell me.

Yeah, yeah.

Uh, not— yeah, I don't know. I was gonna hurt you. Well, yeah, sometimes, like, I'm gonna be like, it kind of bugs me. Oh, it's more not really hurt me. I think it's more of like, well, maybe I didn't do a good job explaining myself.

Okay.

Yeah, like, it's thinking that way, or, oh, you know Yeah, you know, I should have said this like, you know, like, well, I didn't mean it that way. I meant it this way, you know, like I start thinking like, I need to do better next time, you know, like stuff like that. I really get down on my own self thinking I didn't explain myself correctly or like I should have filmed it a different way. Or I just think, oh, maybe that person's just having a bad day. Yeah.

You know, because a lot of the comments are misunderstandings or misjudgments. Really, they're making judgments.

Yes.

For example, we'll get comments, oh, shame on you, shame, shame on you, they'll say, for drinking the colostrum, for getting the colostrum. God forbid the calf get it and you stole it from them. Stuff like this.

Oh, right, right.

We're like, but really, if you don't get it all out, she's going to get mastitis. She's going to get mastitis. Yeah, they don't know this. They just don't know. They're not giving us the benefit of the doubt. They're making judgments.

Right.

And I didn't— hey, I could take your stance and say, you know what, I didn't really explain that. I wouldn't have known. I didn't know to explain this.

Right.

And I could come back. And once we did, we felt like we needed to explain ourselves early on. And we explained it. We explained ourselves. And the comments blew up. You don't ever have to explain yourself.

Right. Because it's just that one comment.

Yeah, but it feels like everybody, right? That's like Grandma.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, I have to say that—

summing up everybody's opinion, right?

Being misunderstood, I think, is like one of the things that we just have to learn how to deal with being on YouTube, being misunderstood. You know, like, I'm not a perfect person, but I'm not malicious, you know? Like, I do care deeply about a lot of things. You know, so I think that's what I've come to lately is just misunderstand me.

Just, yeah, you know, sometimes it's just hard. You just can't explain yourself all the time like that. Like, it's just you'd be going around in circles and it's just you kind of have to pick certain comments and maybe you'll, maybe you'll say it, mention it into the next video, and who knows if they'll even watch that next video, right? And, and so you're saying it for—

I mean, are they even somebody that's around? All the time.

Well, you could, you could take it to, you know, like for the clostridium one, it could be, if there's multiple ones like that, it could be like, maybe some, this might be something I need to educate people on.

Yeah. It's an idea for another video.

Even though this person was very ugly in this saying I'm stealing or whatever. Shame on you. Yeah. Shame. Shame on you. You're stealing.

Right.

That's very harsh.

That is.

Yeah.

But there might be some truth or something to learn from that. But then, like, if you went— I mean, we should make a video one time where we do what the commenters say. Yeah, that would be a viral video because I'm not lying to you. One comment will say, oh, I love that you call her the beautiful one. So I would then make a video. I'll go call her the beautiful one, right? Well, I read the next comment. Oh, it's so degrading that you call her the beautiful one. You should stop doing that. You should call her a bitch. I'm so sorry, that's degrading. Will you please forgive me? And then, you know, all the ideas.

Well, if you did that, you would be eating carnivore one day and vegetarian the next day, or vegan. Vegan.

I would be doing venom therapy. I would do, uh, I'd be doing urine therapy. I would do, uh, yeah, I'd be—

yeah. I don't like how you point and yell at your chickens and say, Bernice, Why are you yelling at your chickens all the time? Really? What do you mean?

Apologize to Bernice in your video.

I know, I'm so sorry, Bernice. Will you forgive me?

You're yelling at your animals all the time. I'm like, what?

He's saying hey.

I call my pigs fat. I'm sure.

Fat pigs.

Yeah, you fat pig.

I love it.

Get fat.

Are you gonna stay On this, when you get— when, when the next 7 years comes up, are you— and you get bored, are you going to stay or are you going to leave?

On our property?

Yeah.

I don't know. I don't know. Yeah, I don't know. I mean, that's a good question because, uh, I mean, we love our property.

It has blood, sweat, and tears.

It has literally blood, sweat, and tears. And, uh, and we continue. There's so much more that we could do there. And I don't know, it's hard for me to say, like, if, like, we could stay at this property for even longer. It seems like typically we're moving every 5 years around.

Yeah.

Every time we get a house, we move.

And I love this property. I loved our— I came to love our last property, but I'm open to moving.

And but I do. I do think there is I'm gonna reach that moment, I think, with our 1.5 acres where I said, I think we told all the stories here. And I think that time frame is 5— in 5 more years I'm going to reach that point.

How long have you been there?

3.

So you think about the 8-year mark you're going to have told all the stories? I think so. At first— so, so first you're a storyteller.

Yeah, I became a tour.

Then you're a homesteader.

Yeah. I think so.

So it's important to you in your life that you always have a story to tell, or in other words, you're always living interestingly. Yeah, you're always interested in how you're living.

I just want to do cool stuff, man. Yeah, that's it.

But, but we're still too far out if it's 8 years to kind of get a prediction from you, but what that cool thing is.

Yeah, I don't know. I don't know. I mean, that's why I try to do different things now. I mean, not just the videos, but, uh, what did you say this morning?

You said some—

maybe we should get into this, and I was like, I don't remember what it was.

I don't know if it was like hot sauce or something.

You were like, this is all we do. I don't remember what it was.

Yeah, I come up with random like things and like, yeah, we should be doing this because that's all we're gonna do. Because it was funny, like when we first moved out here, North Carolina, it was like, okay, it took a lot of effort, man, like to sell our stuff and move out here and leave our careers and, and all these things to get out here. And then we moved out here, it's like, okay, now what? Like, do we just live a happy life and that this is it? This is it, we made it. So in back of my mind, I was like, um, there's something else, what a reason why we moved out here. Like, what's that reason? I don't know. Is that to start a YouTube channel? I don't know. I still don't know if that's the reason. Like, is there something else we should— it's always, I feel there's always this some another thing that should we be doing that or should we be doing that? Is that the reason why we're here? Should I be selling hats? I mean, you know, like you haven't found it yet, you don't think?

I don't know.

I don't know. I don't know. Or maybe I'm, maybe I have found it and I don't realize it.

Hmm.

I mean, I don't know. I always think that there's something else out there for that we should be doing, or that's a stepping stone of the thing that we actually should be doing. Me, but I don't know what that is and I don't know if we'll ever find it. Or maybe we have found it and I don't realize that yet, but I'm always thinking that way. So I don't know. I don't know. I don't know if we'll stay at that property or if in 5 years we'll say, you know what, let's start a new one.

Chase is so fun to live with.

You ready? You ready?

But you seem open to it. Transient.

Yeah, like he has, he has a lot of ideas and I can't say that I'm always all the time. Yes, let's do it. Sometimes I'm like, well, let's see how that works out. Let's dabble in it for a little bit and then let's see how that plays out.

Well, you're, you're, we're 46 now.

Yeah.

So Rebecca and I just had the moment where for the first time we were envisioning shrinking, not growth.

Oh, okay.

We found ourselves fantasizing about only having to have one cow and a couple of sheep and just a little garden.

Right.

Because the kids would be more independent and grown. And we were actually excited about that. Whereas before, it's always excited about, let's guess, we're going to get some cows. We're going to have 3 flocks of chicken. We're going to do 200 meat chickens in here. You get excited about that growth.

Now we're kind of like, well, not that— it's just more, you know, I just don't know what the future holds for our kids, you know. I mean, I assume they're going to stick around pretty close because we have places for them to live, and they, you know, the housing market is so difficult.

Yeah.

So I'm assuming they're going to stick close by, but they might not. You know, when I was, uh, I know, I know a couple of them will because they've talked to me about it deeply. Like, it's more than just, yeah, I think I'm gonna do that. It's like they envision themselves living here, living this lifestyle as an adult, you know.

When I was in ministry, I used to have this feeling that you have, saying, oh, something's big gonna happen, something big is going to happen here.

Yeah.

And I would— I envisioned a lot of people or a things coming and going and some event center or something. And I even went that way, you know, trying to run camps and stuff like that. Well, those never really, they never got to that scale that I imagined. But then at some point I realized, wait a minute, because, you know, we're getting 30,000, 40,000+ views on a video. That's 30,000 or 40,000. And that's not just people, that's people are watching it together. Coming through here. Yeah, you couldn't fit that many people in this— that many people is going to see this podcast, you cannot fit into this barn.

Oh yeah, that's huge.

It's hard to grasp it.

It is because we don't physically see it.

Yeah, we don't get immediate feedback, right? Helps to go to the events and have a lot of people share how it— how we've helped them, comforted them, or helped them or—

Right.

Inspired.

That helps a lot.

Yeah, it does.

You meet people like real people.

Yeah.

Yeah. Because I'll get like, I don't want to do this anymore because I don't want to share my life with people who only criticize us, you know, who—

I get even an email helps.

Yeah.

Like a random email or a postcard. Sometimes you get a postcard and people say how they like watching you and stuff. That helps a lot. Yeah.

Yeah.

It's helped them in this certain basis.

Yeah.

Very certain way.

Early on, I got an ugly comment. I said, okay, I got to go to the emails and and I went to the emails to reply and, you know, then finally a good one. And then you, you know, cause you get so many, I mean, you can not see them all or take them for granted, but then when you need it, it's nice.

You know, early on I mentioned, I think after a year we've been doing YouTube when, you know, I thought only our family was watching, we had a, I think probably the first email I got from a random person that watched, they were like, hey, I know you're in my area. They knew where we lived apparently, or the area we lived from the videos. They're like, you mind if we come to your property and/or your house and you show us your garden and stuff like that? And I was like, oh, this is weird, right? Like, I don't know who this person is. I'm like, but part of me was like, I kind of want to show them around. Yeah, you know, and here they were asking us, can you show like my kids and stuff? And so for whatever reason, we said yes. And so they came out. Turned out they lived like 5 minutes down the road. And they— this is a family that lived in the area their whole lives. They don't have a garden. Their kids were never around a garden or nothing. So they wanted us to show their kids like where the cucumbers, tomatoes came from and stuff like that. And they were a really nice family and we gave them home with like, you know, produce from our garden and, you know, and that was like a weird experience for us because, I mean, it was great. It felt great, like showing them what we're doing. But at the same time, you know, here we are, like we're just trying to figure this out ourselves. We're from California. We don't know how to grow anything. You guys lived your whole lives. It's like you can just throw seeds on the ground and it grows here, you know? And experiencing that, just that kind of helped us continue on. Yeah, maybe we should keep doing this, what we're doing, because people are feeling inspired here and they want to start doing this kind of thing. And from people that grew up here, which is like, that's wild. Yeah. I was like, I thought that's only like a city thing where, you know, kids don't know where their food comes from.

Yeah.

But then I realized it's not just a— LA thing.

Like it's, it's all around.

Yeah.

Tell me then how you learned to cook nutritious meals. You said you never had, but you wanted to.

Yeah.

Or it could be how you ever learned to grow a seed, knowing nothing.

I remember reading the Nourishing Traditions Cookbook from COVID to cover. Like, I don't remember how I found out about it. We were into the Weston A. Price and that kind of thing and just like barely discovering it. And I remember reading that book, I was so intrigued and I like gobbled that whole book up page by page, cover to cover. And I was like, wow, like this is everything. What, you know, everything we were doing before was so wrong. Like we did everything backwards our whole lives. Like we We didn't know. So just kind of using that as a model. And then we went gluten-free. He was like, I really want to go gluten-free. It took a little while for Penelope and I to get on board with that. But then once— I feel like once you do something like that, one, follow the Nourishing Traditions Cookbook, and also going gluten-free, you can't have so much processed— you can't have any processed food. You can't have fast food. You can't go to restaurants. You can't go to people's houses and eat their food. So it was like, well, what is there left but ingredients? So, I mean, at the time, you know, there wasn't gluten-free packaged food like there is now. So back then it was just ingredients. So and then reading the Nourishing Traditions Cookbook helped. So it was like, oh, we'll just buy beans, and we'll, we'll have our meat and we'll have our vegetable and rice and potatoes and that kind of thing. And it's just a bunch of food on a plate.

Mm-hmm.

So I think that was a big help was to go gluten-free and reading the Nourishing Traditions Cookbook because it really changed the way, um, we thought about meals. Like we almost had to unlearn.

Relearn.

We had to relearn everything— cooking and eating.

Yeah, I remember when Siete came out with their tortillas. I remember it's like— but they were like— I remember they were like $6.99.

Abuelita approved.

What'd you say?

Abuelita approved. That's what it says in the back of them.

And, um, I just remember being like Because I was making— if we had tortillas, I would make cassava flour tortillas by hand. Oh, okay. And it took forever.

Yeah.

And I was just like, it just— I remember being like, convenience.

Yeah. They're so expensive.

They are. We don't buy them anymore because I'm like, because my kids eat them so fast. I'm like, you guys will be fine without it.

Yeah, when you get used to it.

I mean, I buy like the corn ones. I have like a package of corn ones for emergencies, like if we need a quick lunch or whatever.

You get used to not having that thing.

You have to get used to that.

It is a used to. You have to get used to it.

It's so hard.

It can't be a substitute. It's got to be an alternative.

Yeah.

Can't think of it as a substitute.

Yeah.

Like cauliflower, mashed cauliflower for potatoes. You cannot say that's That's a substitute.

Oh no, they try to fool you.

They try a terrible alternative.

I made that once. I made mashed cauliflower and I didn't tell anybody, not because I was trying to be, you know, tricky, right? I wasn't trying to deceive anybody. I was just— it was— I wanted to try it because I really liked it. They used to have mashed cauliflower at— what's that honey one? Tupelo Honey. Restaurant. And so Justin and I, um, before we went gluten-free, would go out to dinner, uh, once a month at Tupelo Honey, and they had it there, and I really liked it. It was delicious. Um, and so I was like, I'm gonna make it at home. I'm gonna— I like took a picture of the recipe of— or not the recipe, but of the ingredients that it said was in it, you know. And I did it, and Jonah got us a spoonful on his plate, and he went down and sat down at the table and was just like, what is this? And I was like, oh, it's mashed cauliflower. And he was like, I thought it was potatoes. Oh, like, trust me, sorry, I did not mean to trick you, I promise. So nobody asked.

Jason, how did you learn to grow your first seed or your chickens?

Yeah, I think the garden was just, um, I— starting from seed sounds so foreign to me. Of buying a packet of the seeds and putting them in the ground. It sounded like so hard. And so I think I just went to the hardware store and bought plant starts and just put them in the ground. It was like, I don't know, there was no rhyme or reason.

How'd you put them in the ground? How'd you know how to put them in the ground?

I just dug a hole and put them in the ground. It wasn't—

no, in the grass?

Yeah, it wasn't— no, like, I mean, it was dirt, but it wasn't like—

how'd you get it to be dirt?

I rented tiller.

You knew to do that. How did you know to do that?

I don't know. I saw a picture on a magazine.

Oh, when was the moment you realized this 1.5-acre, real 1.5-acre, is not the 1.5-acre in the magazine? It's not cute. Pretty.

When we had that big slope. We, some of it was like a hill.

It was a steep hill.

Yeah, it was a very steep hill. We couldn't really mow it and we— I don't know, maybe that was a big portion of our property, but we had a big garden and we just couldn't get—

I don't think we could grow a cow here. You know, like, I don't think I could have a milk cow on this 1.5 acres.

Even though our neighbor who has the 1.5 acres next to us, he said he had a milk cow, but it was like always like chained up or something.

I don't know. But it's just—

it's not how we wanted to raise it. It just doesn't look like in that magazine or It's going to take longer than what we thought.

Yeah, right. Like, yeah, it's not going to be right away, that magazine.

Right.

But I mean, you could do it.

I think if you have a shed that you do some deep bedding on for a place for it to park for a little while with the grass or cover. But that stuff like deep bedding, rotate it out through it.

But that Mother Earth News magazine didn't show that.

You wouldn't have known that trick.

It's just a picture.

It was just a snapshot.

You didn't know that there were smaller cows.

That too. Like, I didn't know there was little Coonie Coonies.

Yeah, little Dexter cows.

Yeah, like stuff like that. Like, it wasn't— yeah.

Did you— okay, so you said you started questioning things, so you question food and then you can question your job. What are you questioning now?

Now I think we're questioning, like, do we want to how, how much more do we want to grow? As far as— I mean, I started getting into— we started selling chicken, pasture poultry, last year. It's like, do we really want to do that? Do we want to grow that? Or do we just want to sell like a couple hundred here and there, maybe a year? And just, you know, just if people ask, we'll sell some. Um, so I think that's one thing that we're questioning now, or we've been questioning for the last couple years, of like, how do we grow? Or if we want to grow more, like, as far as like our business, um, like the next step. Or do you want to just continue doing what we're doing, um, and just kind of doing that?

You want to share about the hot sauce?

Yeah, sure. Um, so we've— I don't know, I'm always thinking about just different things to do. You know, selling hats, t-shirts, uh, you know, we have our website, we sell stuff out of there. And, uh, I had a local hot sauce maker, um, close to us contact us. I think he just found us on online. I think he was just already watching our channel and he just asked, hey, if you, you mind growing some hot peppers for us? Because he buys local, um, ingredients from farms in the area. For his hot sauce. And I was like, we had just put up our high tunnel and I was like, yeah, that'd be cool.

Yeah.

Okay. No one ever asked me to grow peppers. I'd never done it before, but yeah, we were already growing peppers. So I was like, yeah, let's do it. So then we started growing peppers and I thought, hmm, I wonder if we could come up with our own hot sauce with our own ingredients.

Because he loves hot sauce. Jason loves hot sauce.

Yeah. And so I asked, I just asked him, I was like, hey, would you be interested in working together and coming up with something? And he's like, yeah, let's do it. So this was a year ago. So this is a year in the making and we just got the bottles in this week. So yeah, we came up with our own Sodeland hot sauce working with him and I guess we're going to see where that goes.

But when you say the bottles came in, you mean it's ready? It's ready to go.

Like there's bottles, like the product is in the bottle. Yeah, but you're getting the labels printed still.

Yeah, I'm designing labels and then I still got to get them printed.

You're doing the design work. It's going to be Sow the Land hot sauce.

Sow the Land hot sauce. Sow the Land Homestead hot sauce.

100 bottles.

100 bottles right now.

You're going to sell right out of those.

I know you are going to sell out.

What's going to happen when you sell right out of those?

Well, you better keep 10 behind for yourself.

Well, we're already growing more.

You're going to get bored of making hot sauce.

Yeah, maybe.

I told him he was that problem.

Drink that hot sauce all himself.

We should have raised more peppers.

Yeah. I think I get bored. Like, I got to start the next thing. I got to start the next thing. And maybe that's my downfall.

Do you have any ambition to sell that hot sauce beyond your influence?

Like in a grocery store?

Yeah, I think that would be neat. I think that would just be cool, right?

Yeah, that would be cool.

I would think it'd be neat to do because we're not— we, we use other farms' ingredients. So I think it would be cool to do one where if we could grow all the ingredients. Yeah.

And have Lorraine make the whole hot sauce.

Lorraine could be canning them herself. The picture could be her holding them like this, and it's the likeness of Lorraine. And her being in linen.

Oh, I was gonna say, I'm wearing like a senorita dress.

Yes.

With some flowers in my hair.

Right. That would be so good. Lorraine's hot sauce.

I don't know if it was during March Madness or something. It was regular TV with regular commercials. TikTok had an ad and it was a guy doing barbecue sauce.

Oh, yeah, yeah.

No, he made spices. He made spices. It was, it was spice seasonings.

I thought it was sauce, but I guess—

I'm sure it was seasoning. Like dry.

But anyway, he got traction through TikTok.

Yeah, he was selling it all on TikTok. Now he's like in Walmart or something.

Barbecue and he's getting bought out or whatever, whatever it was. No.

Do you have TikTok downloaded on your phone?

So are you doing TikTok?

I'm not doing it, no.

Or YouTube Shorts? Are you doing Shorts? You were able to—

oh, you're gonna sell it.

Happy with how you're doing Shorts?

Uh, no. I mean, I just—

are they for Grandma?

No, I'm just randomly posting stuff. It's not like a—

you don't have a plan.

Is it from your regular videos, or are you making original content for Shorts?

A little bit A little bit of both.

So why don't— so do you post your Shorts to TikTok too? Same thing?

No, I haven't even— I started doing that for a little bit and then I stopped doing it. TikTok.

Okay.

I just—

I feel like sometimes it's too many. It's too hard with too many apps. It is.

Yeah.

I'm just like, I'm not even good at Instagram.

I was like, I just—

much less YouTube.

I get bored.

Or giving us advice on how to do YouTube.

Yeah.

Tell us.

Self-admitting. Selfing admitting.

I don't even do Instagram well. And he's like, and you're telling us how to film on YouTube.

Yeah. Yeah.

Well, you're asking.

Yeah, that's exactly what I say. I'm like, you ask me for my advice.

Yeah, we do.

But then you take none of it.

It helps. It helps. It helps us get— help us get to—

It does. I'll have to find it later.

It does set off something. He's like, can you talk? And I'm thinking, you don't want me to talk at all. And then he just talks for 20 minutes. And then he's like, thanks, that was so good.

Yeah. Or if you're like, okay, yeah, that sounds good. He's like, you're just saying that. Are you just complimenting me?

What I'll say is, I don't know. You're the person who does this. Because he's asking me a serious question about things.

And I'm like, it feels like trigonometry.

How smart that is.

Yeah, or I give an idea and he's like, no, that won't work.

Yeah, or he'll laugh.

Thanks.

My idea for the title was a great idea.

I know, I'll say you should do a video like this, and he's like, no one's gonna click on that one.

Sometimes it's good to know what not to do.

And then he's like, and then he's like, I don't mean to beat it down so fast, I just know it won't work. And I'm like, whatever.

Okay, all right, anything else y'all want to add? Folks can find you at Sew the Land on all the things.

Yep, Sew the Land on everything except for TikTok. Except for TikTok. Well, I'm on there, but it's not updated. YouTube, sewland.com. Yeah, just putz around on TikTok, Instagram.

Okay, you can get a hat. Hot sauce in what, a couple—

hot sauce is going to be sold out by the time this comes out, I bet. Yeah, hopefully, hopefully in less than a month it'll be on our website.

All right.

Yeah. Okay.

Uh, are you selling pastured poultry?

Yes, we are selling this year. My goal is to sell 200 chickens this year.

Nice.

Yeah, I notice you'll have no problem doing that. Are you shipping it?

No, we are not shipping the pasture poultry.

Oh, it's just too confusing with people because you're only allowed to ship to North Carolina.

Yeah.

Okay. You would, uh, I noticed something about you. You generally say yes to opportunities. You would to me. I mean, you're the guy that we could go to Polyface and back in one Yep. You would just go for it or build the— help us build the cold plunge or the greenhouse or the— you were always up for an adventure.

Yeah, I was trying to say yes to a lot of things. Uh, I was saying yes to more things earlier on.

Yeah, I was going to say, has that changed? You now say no to things?

A little bit changed. Yeah, you just kind of focus more, more on things that— okay, I really want to do. Or maybe what's more working.

Would you say you have to say yes to more things in the beginning to figure out what works?

Oh yeah, you got to say yes to it all because I, you know, I didn't have a job, so I didn't know what I liked doing. I didn't know what I wanted to do. I didn't, I didn't know how that was going to work. So I felt like it was important to say yes to everything. And then it's during that, I think it's during that whole process, you just kind of figure out what gravitate towards or what people want from you or what they like from you. And also just give you experience. I think just overall experience of like, I think me doing a greenhouse or the walk-in fridge, that helped me a ton.

Yeah.

I mean, I remember, I don't know if I told you that, but the day before I was going to come and work on the fridge, the walk-in fridge, like I dialed your number because I was going to tell you I can't do it. It because I, I thought I couldn't do it. Like, I was— because I'd never done that before. So, and I knew like, okay, Justin's gonna film this, everyone's gonna know I can't do it, you know, like I'm gonna fail on the camera. Like, all these thoughts were coming through my mind.

You did it and it was beautiful.

Yeah, honestly, it was Lorraine. She's— I mean, I mean, you know, we're a team, so she was like, no, you can do it. Like, it's not you know, it's not rocket science, you know, like people do this all the time. People do it, just figure it out. And so I did.

Just do it.

Yeah.

Jason.

And I didn't, I didn't call you, so, and I came and did it and it was great and I learned a lot.

Yeah.

So you built a trailer?

Yeah.

And I built my own trailer and I built a mobile, a couple other ones too. Cooler.

Or did you build some other trailers for other people? I'm assuming.

Okay.

Or walk-ins.

Yeah.

And then, um, Um, yeah, just saying, just saying yes. Yeah. So no, I appreciate you, uh, believing in me.

Yeah. Oh, we believed in you. And that greenhouse is still going.

No, I know we're using it still.

It is. It needs new plastic, but yeah, we were gonna do that. Well, that— we had a hailstorm last year. We had hail this big falling from the sky, and it— there's 4 or 5 big holes in that plastic. I mean, it's brittle. It's been there a while. Yeah, yeah, it's been there a minute.

It's time.

But, um, it was actually this big. Why you hit me? You got— I got you.

Because it's so inappropriate. So inappropriate.

Jason looked right at it. He knew he was screwed.

Did you guys grow up doing that?

I know you're talking about— no, I didn't grow up doing that.

But yeah, this is— my boys do it. They'll say, oh, look here, and you look down there, and for some reason you're supposed to hit the person. I hit them if they do it to me, so they don't do it to me anymore. I give them a punch in the arm.

All right, so, well, thank you guys.

Thank you guys so much.

Thank you.

Yeah, it was a good time having us.

I appreciate it.