Andrew John

Guiding conversations with community leaders.

In this podcast, we'll explore the human journey of leaders. Their stories of humility, triumph, roadblocks and lessons learned. Come join us as we journey together and uncover the questions you've always wanted to know. This podcast is brought to you by the Gilbert Chamber of Commerce, providing resources, connections and belonging for business professionals and.

Rocket Space, an event and meeting venue in the heart of the East Valley with a full service four person podcast studio. Hey everybody, here we are. We are now back and we have Andrew John with us today.

Good morning.

Welcome, welcome. This man is an entrepreneur, very, very well known in the local community here. I actually have a lot of respect for you, man. We don't get talked that much but I love hearing all the things you're involved in. I can't wait to explore this with you today.

I appreciate that.

And we have Sarah with us today too.

Good morning.

We have the boss.

Andrew, thanks for being here today. We are going to start with something.

We call rapid fire round.

Rapid fire round. Okay, so here we go. Let's get some questions. Rolling. Sarah, you go first.

Morning beverage of choice.

Cappuccino.

How long does it take you to get ready in the morning?

About 10 minutes.

Name one thing you can't live without.

Ooh, right now? Alcohol.

Alcohol. Sign me up.

I'm sorry.

Star wars or Star Trek?

Oh, both. But I'm gonna go with Star Wars.

What did your mom call you as a kid?

What did she call me? I don't know if I know that one. Were you there a lot of mijo maybe?

I was gonna say, is it hey you or.

My nickname was Gino.

Gino.

Okay. Yeah. Because I was born on the same day as my aunt Gina. 30 years apart.

I love that.

That's kind of interesting. So. But I don't know if I think she just called me Andrew or Get the heck.

I know that one. Favorite color?

Blue.

Town of Gilbert or city of Gilbert?

Town of Gilbert.

I know that you've been brainwashed. Okay.

Yeah.

Favorite superhero?

I don't know, I guess Superman.

Yeah, I don't.

You know, it's. I. Growing up I did more work than watch stuff. So kind of like now I'm getting more into that.

You know all about Superman.

Glass half full or half empty?

Never really thought about that one. But I guess lately I'll go with half full.

Nice. Favorite sports team?

Whoever you are going for, I will go with opposite.

Oh, you like a little challenge?

Yes, I just. You know, again, growing up in Arizona, we really didn't have a Lot of teams until more recently. So I didn't grow up really in a sports household or, you know.

So I'll adopt you as a Kansas City Chiefs fan.

How about that? I know some guys that are.

I know they're everywhere.

I can tell you some ones I don't like about that.

So what do you do for a hobby?

Not much lately. I used to. I used to shoot competitively for about 15 years. Traveled around the country, did some stuff like that. So I got really into that probably way too much and just took up too much time. So I finally just said, you know what? I'm not doing this anymore.

Okay. Camping or glamping?

Glamping.

Oh, I would not expected that from you.

Oh man.

Bougie, tell me what glamping means to you.

Not know what that means. What that means to me is I'm not in a tent, you know, I want to be bougie. I want to be taken care of.

I did not expect that either.

I can appreciate that. I definitely do. You prefer to work remotely or in person these days?

I'm an in person person. I don't even really like text, you know, I like phone calls. I like talking to people. I like seeing your face. You know what I mean? It just feels. It feels disconnected when you're not there. Even though I can work remotely, it just. I just don't like it. We actually went full back to the office in May of last year. So I'm just. I'm very much in person.

Yeah. Thank you to Phoenix Mesa Gateway Airport for their support.

With non stop service to 60 plus cities, Gateway Airport makes traveling just plain easy.

Visit gateway airport.com for more information. Let's dive into some of these other questions we've got today. So the owner of John's Refrigeration, rather the question I had for starting is I found out in your, in your bio that you were born into the business.

Yes.

Talk about the beginnings of that.

So my story basically is that my dad, I think the first time, according to what I hear is the first time I was actually at work, I was still in a carrier, you know, as a baby. And so I went to work with my dad all the time. Growing up I was minimum during summer, three days a week I would go with him and then the other days would be with mom. You know, back then they had like where you could go to the library and read books and you know, they had movies and did all this stuff so mom would take us and you know, kind of do all that stuff. But Growing up, it was just me and dad and. And I loved it because I had my little uniform, you know, I had my little. My little pocket knife, and I had my. My book. In the beginning, I think I got a dollar a day, then it went to $5 a day, and then it went to $10 a day. And then it went per call. And I'd have to. I'd have to have my book and write down all the addresses and everything that we did, you know, and that was like my time card, that was my pay sheet, you know, and then it was a percentage. And then, you know, it just kind of grew and grew and grew. And then when I was 16 and I got my driver's license, I basically worked full time and went to school. So by that time, I think I was probably junior, something like that in Mountain View and went to work. That was just what we did. And as it progressed, it was basically from, let's say, March to October, it was seven days a week, 13 hours a day, and just kind of went from there.

Do you feel like that was more of a. It sounds like it wasn't really an option, but it was more like just the lifestyle that you always have known. Is that kind of how you would perceive it, or do you feel like you ever had an option to do or not do this. This trade?

No, I actually don't. I feel that it was. I always looked at my dad as successful. Right. I mean, when we were growing up, we didn't have everything, but we had everything that we needed. Yeah, right. And so I always looked at him as a successful person. And so it was just like, well, I'm just going to do what dad does, you know, I mean, why, why, why wouldn't you? Right. So I never really thought about it or gave myself an option to not do the family business. When I graduated and I went to trade school, I got a scholarship from. Which was Mesa Vo Tech then. Now Evit, right? Yeah, I'm old. And so it was Evit then. And I got a scholar, I got a scholarship at trade school. I actually had a job offer to do air conditioning in the Bahamas. Didn't take it because I was dating Heather at the time and, you know, kind of thought that was going somewhere. So I just said, well, there's no really reason to go other than the Bahamas. Yeah, I'll just stay here, you know. What did I know? I didn't know about the Bahamas. So now it's just a progression. And so literally, yeah, I don't think I ever really thought about doing anything else because, again, you know, everybody wants to be success or everybody wants to, you know, they're. They're searching for something. And I guess I felt that I had found it. So I just. And this. Never really thought about it.

I reflected on this as I am a parent of many kids, as you know, and I'm looking at that as a business owner going, man, will my kids be part of this business? How would I integrate them? And I. So I was thinking about your story and just wondering, you know, so how much of an influence then was mom and dad on that then with you?

I don't think they ever. I don't think they ever really pushed me.

Okay.

One way or the other. It wasn't like, you're coming to work with me. What it more was like on my mom's side, it was, you're not going to sit around both my parents. You're not going to sit around and play video games. And. Well, back then, we didn't hardly have a lot of them.

We had Nintendo. Yeah.

It was like, get out, right? Get outside. You know, mom was, hey, you're going to learn how to cook. You're going to learn how to clean. You're going to learn how to sew a button. You're going to learn how to wash your clothes. And dad was like, you're going to learn a trade, okay? And. And the cool thing was, I mean, I remember times Sarah was talking about Disneyland. We went to Disneyland all the time, right? But during the summertime, sometimes they would go, and Dad's working. I would stay home with dad because I was like, this is cool. I get to get paid. I get three meals a day. I get to hang out with dad, you know, so it was just. It was kind of fun.

Yeah.

And so I just. I just always did that.

So what if there weren't a family business? What do you think you would have done with your life had there not been John's refrigeration?

You know, I've thought about that, and I absolutely have zero idea. I think, because. Because I didn't have that, I didn't take that opportunity to say, you know, go to college, learn something different. You know, expose myself to things I never really got. I don't feel I really exposed myself to a bunch of stuff until I actually joined the chamber, which is, interestingly enough, I. You know, my world was so small. I mean, you could. At that time, you could fit my world into this room. You know what I mean? Because it was family and work and it's padded. Yeah, there you go.

Cool. So the trades. Now my business is highly involved in helping market those trades. You are the trades. Talk about the importance of the trades today and what that means to the landscape that people probably don't see. But from your lens, it's a whole different perspective, right?

Yeah. You know, it's like with this, I always laugh, like with this big push for what is it? Science, engineering, Math, stem? Yeah, with the big STEM push. And I always laugh in the back of my head and I just think, well, you can push that all you want. And the fact is, without the trades, you've got no factories, you've got nobody to do the work. If the building's not air conditioned, no one's coming to work. Right? So I think I. Literally, without the trades, nothing gets done. Not that the stem stuff is not important, it's just, who's gonna build the road, right? Who's gonna air condition the office? Who's gonna build that building?

You and I have this conversation a lot because we have a Tours for Te program and you come in and speak to these teachers and you talk about the importance of these trades. And we are always surprised by how teachers feel very compelled to talk about post secondary education and sometimes trades is a little bit harder for them to talk about with their students.

And so I always say it's not sexy, right. You know, working on a dumb air conditioner is not cool. Right. A lot of people won't get satisfaction from that. Right. But on the same point, I look at it and say, you know, how many people get a four year degree and then don't use it? Right? Or how many people go, and they get multiple, multiple things and then they go sell houses, you know, and so I think for a lot of people, the trades are a better option than just your secondary education. And you know, the fact is, is we can take somebody out of high school by the time they're 21, they have a house, they have no debt, they're making as much money as they want to make, you know, and some of them do very well, some of them kind of coast and. And you know, some of them just can't figure it out, you know, So I just, I, I think that the trades are just super important. And I don't think that'll ever go away because, you know, even though we can automate a lot of things, there's a lot of things we can automate.

And you're right, the trades have a huge impact. I know. So I'll Interject my story real quicker. So when I went to school to be a graphic designer, you know, net industry, we break out and people always, he's like, who do you work for? And you kind of expect to say things like the big brands like the apples, the Disney's.

Right.

The things just so happens my path is I'm working for a home, you know. And so you're right, there's a little bit of an ego I think that's involved in this that people have to kind of, kind of like it's okay. And what does that come from? I think that's a lot to do with society and how we kind of think about the trades in the industry that I also believe is flipping because people are seeing more and more the importance of that and they're seeing, that's becoming a more exciting career for a lot of people and hopefully we'll see more people coming into it because as you know, there's not a lot of people in it right now. And there's a need for it.

Oh yeah, it's a huge, it's a huge need for people. And, and even I, when I talk to the tertiary teachers and stuff, I'm like, even girls in the industry, like I want female technicians.

Yeah.

Can't find them. Had one. She did pretty well. But as an industry that's a big discussion right now how, how well they actually do. And I, and like I told them this this last time is, you know, it's changed. You know, used to be you had to be able to throw £100 on your back and walk up a ladder. We don't do that anymore. Now it's just about customer service. Now it's just about communication and just helping your customer to educate them on what we can do for them.

I think Covid almost accelerated the conversation a little bit about the value of trades. I think people really started to see when we started classifying things, whether legitimate or not, between essential and non essential. And we knew that we needed these services and those don't go away.

We had those conversations in the beginning. Somebody, I think it started as an attack, you know, like, well, you're essential, you know, and all I said was not if nobody lets me in their house, you know what I mean? So. But I don't disagree with you. It's, it's definitely changed, I think how some people look at everything.

So you mentioned that the Chamber was an area that you kind of started the marketing or there was an evolution that happened when you joined the Chamber for your business.

Yeah.

But also you mentioned in your notes that you realize that you were the problem in your business even as it was growing.

I did, Yeah, I did. So I had done what my dad basically taught me, which was take care of the customer, right. Pay your suppliers, price yourself properly. And so I never had this, I have to grow. Like, you know, I have to be bigger, I have to be this size. It was more about just do your job and then the money comes and the customers will follow. Right. And so there was a shift when we joined a best practice organization, which was mainly designed to help you put systems in place, to help you grow, and ultimately to help you sell. And so at that time, when we started doing that and it was about, I don't know, 0809, I was completely burned out. I mean, I just, I just couldn't do it anymore because I was doing every job. You know, I was doing sales, I was technically manager. I was, I was the after hours on call every night. So I was just kind of done. So when my, my brother and them came to me and basically said, hey, why don't you, why don't you let us run it and you go do something else? I was like, okay. And so they basically said, you know, kind of pushed me out into the, into the chamber world and just said, hey, you go be the face. And that was when I really started to meet people. Meet people like Sarah, meet people like yourself. I, I talk a lot about Darren Pattoni, who was a, who was a big pivotal thing for me and just people like that that I started to meet. And you know, Mark Gaylor was you, you guys don't know him, Kenny Bode, people like that. Where all of a sudden my world started getting bigger and I started realizing that I couldn't be like my dad, which was, I can do anything better than you. And he was right. Right. But then that means you're the only person that's ever doing the work and you're just getting buried and buried and buried and buried. And so that's when I kind of started to realize that, yeah, I can't do it by myself. Right. And one of the guys that I, Steve miles, he's in St. Louis, somebody asked him, he took a company from like 6 million to 12 million in five years or something like that. And they asked him, what did you do? How did you do this? He said, well, I fired the guy who was in the way. And that's been one of the things that I always think about was just get out of the way because the fact is, one of the things Candy taught me is I'm not good at everything. I'll do it, but it drives me crazy, right? And so when I can take that stuff, identify that stuff, push that stuff aside, give it to somebody who clearly can do it better than me, all of a sudden we start growing. All of a sudden we start, you know, we start freeing ourselves up and then work doesn't suck anymore. It actually becomes kind of fun because I'm only doing the things that I enjoy. So that kind of just set us on a path. Unfortunately, that path had some consequences with, you know, family and things like that, which does suck. But as I look back on it, it almost had to happen in a way. And had that not happened, had I not been pushed, I would not have ever gone out and opened myself up, you know, in the chamber and, you know, met those people. And, you know, that's one of the things, like I said when I talk about Darren, because I was talking to him about where we were and how, you know, how I was just, I was ready to quit. I was ready to walk away. I was just, I just couldn't take it anymore. And Darren looks at me and he says, I need you to read a book. And I looked at him, I said, absolutely not. I absolutely refuse to read. I will not do it. And it was because I had this, you know, there's lots of business books out there, right? And everybody thinks all you got to do is read a book and you're going to be successful and get what you want. And I was just very. No, like, I can't. I'm not dealing with this. So he told me to read this book and, and he said, look, I need you to read it. He said, it changed my life, it changed my business. Read the book, but don't read it unless you're willing to look in the mirror. And I was like, oh, okay. And so I read it and, and I looked in the mirror and, you know, with the help of all those people that really helped me change things. And that moment is what really set us to motion for where we are today. Yeah, because it was actually a great book, Boundaries for leaders by Dr. Henry Cloud. And it really helped me see, even though our company was so good, we had such great customer service, but internally we were struggling. That helped me see what was going on internally and then helped me change that.

How do you keep that in check now?

Great. People literally get bringing on, bringing on people that are like minded, that understand where we want to go, what we want to do that, read the book and just surrounding myself with that and I. That's. That's been one of the greatest things. So here I am, you know, 48 years old. Well, 47, almost 48 years old. I've got a great team. I work three or four days a week, you know, part time, kind of. And they do it, they get it done. And I'm kind of there for, you know, for support. What do you need? How can I help?

Yeah, that makes a big impact and big difference. I relate to so much what you say as an owner, myself and operator. I'm like, all these things you're saying I'm gonna have to read the book.

Do you work three days a week?

I try to work three days a week.

Thank you.

I don't know what.

I work double that.

Yeah. I tell them their job is to. Is to get me out of the office.

That's great. That's great.

That's trust.

Yeah. Yeah. They're awesome.

Yeah. 28 years of marriage.

Yeah.

What's the wife do in this process? I would be really interested to know how that dynamic works and how besides put up with me going, yes.

Yeah. So 28 years tomorrow, actually.

Wow.

Yeah.

Happy anniversary.

Thank you.

Heather's been with me along the way. She's worked for John's man at. And this bout here, it's at least eight or ten years, but she's. But previous. She's come in, you know, when we've had things that we needed. Right now. She does. I say she does the things that you maybe don't want other people to do, you know, deposits the reconciliations, the. She kind of, you know, knows what's going on with that. She comes in, works part time, basically, and, you know, just whatever her schedule is. She makes and. And gets things done. But she's. She's done a lot of the different jobs in the. In the industry she did or in our business. She doesn't really like phones, so, you know, she's like, I'll do whatever, just don't put me on the phone. I want to talk to people.

I was going to say you said, and she puts up with you. What does that mean?

You know what that means? I don't have long have. You know me. I'm a pain in the butt.

You push people to be better.

I try now. Yeah. Or. I don't know about push, but I guess try to help people not make the same mistakes that I made, you know, because I. One of the things I always think is what If I would have joined the chamber in 2000 instead of 2010, you know what? If I would have met certain people 10 years prior. Right. And so now it's almost like I feel like my job is to help people not make those same mistakes or to, you know, to somehow be a mentor in the way that just says, hey, here's what I did. Here's where I screwed up. Because we've, you know, 51 years in business, we've made every mistake that you could make, but we've also done a lot of really, really good stuff. And so I feel that it's kind of my thing, and joining the Chamber helped me do that because, again, it made my world bigger. It, you know, made me see that there was more out there than John's and, you know, and that by being a part of that, we could actually benefit ourselves and benefit everyone who's a part of the team.

What words of wisdom do you have? You have one in here, actually, that you wrote, surround yourself with great people and help them succeed. If they get what they want, so will you. Where that come from?

I don't know where it came from. I guess I look at it this way. As a business owner, you can be greedy if you wanted. Right. You could find ways to not pay people as much as maybe they should, or maybe just give them more than they even should be earning. Right. You can find ways to use cheaper parts. You can, you know, just different things like that. Right. But at the end of the day, I don't think it's necessarily about the bottom line. Right. The bottom line matters. And if we're successful because we're doing what we're supposed to, that's great. But if you. I think from being burned out, that whole surround yourself with people, you know, get out of the way, let them, you know, let them help you in the end. Gives you the end result that you want. Right? So for me, it's all about quality of life at this point. It's about being able to not show up on a Friday ever. Right? To what? And if you do walk in, they go, why are you here? You know what I mean? Maybe do. Why is he here? Yeah, it's about that quality. It's about, you know, being happy, but also making everyone else around you happy. One of the things I always thought success was being content with what you have. Not that we don't want more, not that we're not trying to grow, but if you're not happy where you are in your life at this point, then you're not going to be happy at the next point, you know, or the next point, and you'll just be, you know, what's that? King Solomon said he had. He was the richest man in the world, right? Had everything and could do anything. And what did he say? He was driving after the wind, right? So I don't know. I just. I think that's one of those things. And another thing, I think surrounding yourself with great people is. I think it makes you happier. Like, it's, it's fun. And like, I love going and talking to the girls in the office. I love have, you know, being able to have a conversation with them. You know, we, we. We just did a big office dinner. It was, it was. It was fun. You know, I just. So, so I just. I like being around that positive people who are, you know, who are kind of pushing that same direction.

Well, it's something you're both known for, is creating that. That environment for your employees. How do you do that?

How do we do that?

And I love this environment. I really do. I. I've. Every time I walk in this building, I'm like, dang it, I want this building, you know, So I don't know, what was it?

I mean, you're just. You're both good bosses and you both. You create an environment where people want to be. I think it's hard to do. Leading my own team.

It is hard to do, right? And that's boundaries. Boundaries.

Literally.

That book changed my life. There was one example in there that I always relate to people, and basically it was. It was a factory owner whose son was going to. He was basically going to take over. And so the dad. The dad is kind of overlooking the factory floor, and he sees his son yelling at one of the employees and, you know, berating them. I don't know what the situation was or what they did or why. And so he brings his son in to the office and he says, son, I need to talk to you first. I'm going to talk to you as a father. I love you. And he says, now I'm going to talk to you as your boss. You're fired. I will not allow anyone who is willing to treat someone the way you treated that person to take over this company. And I just kind of. That kind of hit me because it's so. I think that we were. In the beginning, we were a blame. Like a blame you culture. So I know you have systems, right? You guys have. You have all these systems. You have all these things. There's a way to do the job that needs to be done every day, right? And I think that we get so wrapped up in the systems that we think that the systems will actually run the people to get the job done, right? But at the end of the day, that's not, that's not how people work. You know, you have to have the systems. But I could see when I was reading that book that we were blame you. So if you didn't follow the system, it wasn't my fault, Sarah. It's your fault. You're not following my system. And it's a perfect system because I built it, right? And that's what we would do. And so it was almost like when you go to somebody and then you go to them and you go to them and you go to them, they just, they just quit, right? They just shut down. They go into that. What do they call it, the animal brain, where it's fight, flight, or curl up in a ball, right? And then they curl up in a ball and then they get up and they run away. And so I started seeing kind of that. So what I did was turned it into what I call a blame me culture. It's. It's not your fault. It's my fault. And it's going to continue to be my fault until we've eliminated every option that we could do. So it's like, it's kind of like that in a way that, that one minute manager, you know, kind of thing where you're, hey, this isn't getting done. I obviously didn't communicate properly. How can we fix this? I think changing that literally within two months, the culture was hugely different. And I think that people appreciate it when you blame yourself and try to help them and help them and help them to get rid of those.

I echo all that. Great, great explanation. Absolutely. What's next? Where are you going next? You got, you got all kinds of things going. What's on your roadmap?

You know, me and Heather don't have kids, and so there's not a family for me to give this to, right? So really, I think what I'm trying to do right now is get it to a place where my key people can have a business. In other words, they're the, they're the new generation, right? And so it's like, help me grow it so it's worth something. And then you buy it and then you can do what you want to do and then you can set, you know, and, or, or maybe we get to a point where we decide that we sell it. I Talk about it. It's kind of a joke. My management team has threatened me with. With pitchforks if I ever sell, you know, because, you know, what happens when you sell is, you know, it's never the same. And so it's kind of. Right now, I think the future is as a team, we're going to ride this, and we're just going to see. We're going to see where it goes. And, you know, I'm only 48, so it's not like it's time to walk away, you know?

You and I had a conversation recently, and I was surprised because you said that you're not necessarily chasing growth, that you're okay with the success that you have. And it took me back a little bit.

Yeah. So when I look at the big, big. The big guys, you know, the ones everybody wants to be not really happy with, that I'm not. I'm not really happy with. I don't know what has to be done to get there. You know what I mean? I think you have to compromise some things, whether it be compromise on your people or compromise on your customers or, you know, I just don't. I don't like that. It's not that we don't want to grow, Sarah. I. But there is a. There's a sweet spot, and when we. When we can get there, I can give everybody who wants it what they want and still have what I want or need. So it's not that we're not growing. I mean, we've. We've more than doubled in. Since 2015, so. 2015, we are now almost two and a half times what we were then. I bought four companies that were smaller, which, you know, helped us facilitate that growth and stuff. So really, I guess what I look at it is if we're doing what we're supposed to, you know, we're still marketing. We still have that push, but it's not like I want to be $10 million. You know what I mean? I just. I don't know. I just. I'm not wound that way.

You're focused on different outcomes.

Yeah. I mean, let's. Let's do it right, and then let's see where it takes us. You know, we're not stagnant. We're not. Not doing anything. It was like last year, during. During COVID there was things that I could have done. We lost revenue. We were fine. Right. I could have not lost that revenue if I would have been willing to make business decisions and not people decisions. Yeah. But I felt more loyal to My people, you know, I mean, I. I had. I had one guy off for two months because it was either him or his wife needed to stay home and watch the kids because daycare was shut down. Right. Well, if his wife did it, she was probably going to lose her job. So I took the hit and just let him. And let him stay at home. I lost. I had another guy out for a month. And those things affected us greatly. But at the end of the day, we were fine. And I was able to keep everyone. I was able to, you know, keep supporting everyone. We didn't lay off, we didn't furlough, we didn't anything. We kept everybody full time. We're gone.

That dedication, I think that people respect, and that's how you run it. That's how you should run a business. Really?

I think so.

I agree. I agree.

Well, I always love listening to you. I learned something from you every time.

Really.

She's got a lot to learn, though, right?

That's true. I'm a rookie in this room, actually.

You know, it. Actually, it's funny. One of the, One of the coolest things that somebody has said to me lately that's kind of along that, along that line, because I don't. I've never thought of myself as. As a mentor or, you know, I have anything that I can tell you. You know what I mean? I just always looked at it as. I'll just tell you the story of what, what's happened and, you know, where we're at. But I actually had a couple of the servers that I know that, you know, me and, me and my friends go, and, you know, we go have drinks and we hang out and so we get to know some of them. One of them actually just started working for me, and I had two of them basically say that they looked at me as a mentor is not the word, but basically as a. As a mentor, like, like, like, hey, we actually think you have some good things to say. So I just thought about that.

I was like, wow, inevitable. It is.

I mean, it's weird.

It's just how life is.

I don't know. I mean, it's. Again, it's not like. It's not like you're trying to be anything but. Like I said, we've. We've made a lot of good decisions and done a lot of dumb stuff too. So, you know, so as long as.

You share that, because you guys are so much older than I am, someday I'll get there.

Well, you got to have kids around, Teach, you know, that's that's what we do in this world.

Thanks, guys. I'm the kid in the room.

You're the kid in the room. Yeah. That's funny.

This has been a great conversation. Thank you so much for being on the show. Thank you. A lot of fun learning from you and just hearing your journey and all the things you've gone through. Great experiences. I hope everybody out there listening has learned a lot as well.

It's probably about a three or four hour conversation, but hey, we did it.

Good. And Sarah learned something today, too.

Every day.

Every day.

Yeah. Thank you.

Thanks, guys.

Appreciate it.

Guiding Growth Conversations with Community Leaders.

Ben, let me ask you a question. How do you see other community members being involved in this podcast?

This is going to be a great opportunity for so many people in the community to have a chance to be heard if they want to tell their story or if they just want to be part of this journey with us and help sponsor in a way that helps bring more people to the table with us. So I think there's many opportunities at hand. Whether you want to again be on the show, reach out to us. Let us know what your story is and how you think you could be part of it. We'd love to hear from you. Reach out, let us know and we'll see if we can make that connection.