Deb Shapiro

Guiding Conversations with Community leaders.

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Ben's trying to be smart again and.

So we're going to move on because we have a guest here who's worth.

Our time and attention for sure.

Yes. And who do we have here with us today?

Hailing from the east coast, today's guest is a visionary leader with over 15 years of experience developing the talents of top keynote and motivational speakers. In 2017, she created Deb X, a 90 day speaker development experience. And in 2020 she took the lessons from Deb X and founded the award win non profit Amplify Voices which provides historically marginalized communities a platform to share their stories and advocate for systemic change. She is not only a champion for survivors of sex trafficking and assault, those formerly incarcerated and women impacted by breast cancer, but amazingly, she herself is a survivor of a train accident in which she broke her neck, but lived to tell her story and create change. Please welcome to the show, an inspiring advocate, a patient guest and a leader.

In our community, Deb Shapiro.

Hey.

Hey. Welcome to the show.

Thank you so much. So great to be here.

I can't wait to hear how this intro comes out in this particular episode. We had so many opportunities here. Before we get into that, let's start with what we always start with.

Rapid fire.

Here we go.

Would you rather find your dream job or win the lottery?

Dream job.

What is your guilty pleasure?

Eating those little lemon cakes from Costco.

Those are delicious.

They're so good. Yeah.

And you can't just usually eat one.

No, you can't.

Would you rather host a party for all of your friends or enjoy a dinner for two?

I think I would rather host a party for all of my friends.

Have you ever moved across country?

Oh, a few times actually.

Yes, Done that.

Okay.

Would you ever appear on reality tv?

I guess it would depend on what the show was. So if it was like Bachelor or Bachelorette or something like that? That would be a no.

Okay.

But perhaps a different show. I might consider it.

That's fair.

Okay. I might know the answer to this one because of the previous answer, but what is your favorite dessert?

My favorite? Yeah, I do. I kind of love those little lemon cakes, I guess.

They're really good.

I have a sweet tooth, so. Really? Anything sugary, sweet, baked goods, Anything?

Okay, fair enough.

Are you more cautious or bold?

I start out cautious.

Okay.

But I will be bold after I walk those first few steps. Okay.

Okay. What song makes you smile?

You are Not Alone. From Evan Hansen. I don't know if you're familiar with that song, but it is. It's a beautiful song. And so that's the one that makes me smile.

I'm a theater mom.

Yeah.

What is your favorite rainy day activity?

My favorite rainy day activity? I don't know. Do we have. We had one today.

We had a rainy.

Okay.

What's Your favorite rainy 10 minute activity?

Activity. Actually standing out and watching the rain. I love it when the lightning and the thunder. That's what I like to do.

Love that.

Yeah.

Okay, last question. Glass half full or half empty?

Oh, half full.

There you go.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Okay.

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Well, I'm excited to have you here today. I feel like we can unpack so many different bold moves in your life, and we would love to start with the beginning childhood. What did that look like for you? Where did you grow up?

I grew up in a kind of a scrappy city called Brockton, Massachusetts, which is about 20 miles south of Boston. And I had a great childhood. Two parents loved me very much, would support me in everything that I did, and I liked to do a lot. I was very involved in high school and the band and the drama club and the French club and the editor of the newspaper and the tennis team and all of those things. I just loved to be involved in the community and the community, and I said it was scrappy. We are known for Rocky Marciano and Marvelous Marvin Hagler, who are our boxers there. So there's a lot of boxing legends that have come there and have grown up through Brockton, but It's a big city. It was a little scary going to high school. We had 6,000 students in my high school. It was like.

I can't imagine.

Yeah, it was bigger than a lot of the colleges that I ended up wanting to apply for. But I liked that. It gave me so much opportunity growing up to do all of those things, and I liked it. I didn't mind being in a big school, supposedly the biggest one east of the Mississippi at the time.

I'm curious when you look back at that, because with 6,000 students, it could be easy just to get lost in.

The crowd and sit things out.

So where did you get the ambition to jump in and do different things?

Well, I would say my parents have always supported me in whatever it is that I've wanted to do. And so anytime I'd come home with some crazy idea of something I wanted to do, my parents would be all over it, saying, you can do this. You can do. This was funny because my brother was always good in math and sciences, and he graduated, like, top 1% of the high school. And I was close, but everything was. You know, my brother was the brainy one growing up, but my mom would always point out that everybody has different talents in different areas, so she'd always make me feel good about the things that I was doing versus the things that my brother was doing. And so I just loved it. I loved being involved. My nickname was Tigger. Growing up, I had unbridled energy all the time. Have mellowed out, I would say a lot in my older age, but definitely had a lot of enthusiasm and needed to get out there and live life while I was growing up.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm curious. What'd you play in band?

I was a flute player and a piccolo player in marching band? Yeah. Had an opportunity to play in district, and I really got into that when I was younger as well. But it's been sitting on a shelf for many years. I haven't picked it up in a while.

But you could.

I could. Although the. The pads on the flute might end up sticking, so I would probably need a big overhaul before I actually ended up playing it.

That's all right. Good to have those talents.

Yep.

All right. What is something that, when you look back at childhood in the east coast, what is something that you just remember fondly?

Oh, gosh. Something on the east coast that I remember fondly. Well, I loved the snow at the time. I don't love it as much anymore. That is why I'm living here in Arizona. But when we Were little kids. And we had. It was the blizzard of 78. It was huge. We had 40 inches of snow. And then another storm on top of that. And I remember everything got closed down. You had to just go to the supermarket with a sled and get whatever groceries that you could get at that point in time. And my father ended up taking all of the snow that he would shovel out of the driveway very slowly and would pile them up into these big mountains. And all of the kids would come over to our house with their flying saucers or a tray and just go sliding down the hills in the street. And so for two weeks straight, we just got to play. And really, the whole world just stopped at that point in time. But that was really an incredible time in my life. And every winter, when we'd have enough snow, we would always go pile it up and have these little toads flooding on.

Hey, that's a really cool dad.

I have the. Yeah, he's the best. Thumbs up still with us. And he's still supporting me in the same way, but yeah, really great.

So Boston to Boston.

Boston took me to. Actually, I went to Chicago after Boston. That was to be with my then boyfriend, to be husband, to be ex husband. And so I moved out from Boston to Chicago. I was working at the time in human resources consulting. And when my boyfriend at the time wanted me to move out there, I was like, okay, well, what am I going to do? My career is over here. So he worked some magic. I ended up getting a job over there and working in human resources consulting for what's called a professional employer organization. And I moved out to Chicago. I went from cold to cold, and I loved it out there. I loved the architecture. I loved the architecture. Architecture in Boston. I would say that's what we're missing a little here because we're a little bit newer. But yeah, my journey took me from Boston to Chicago. And I was in Chicago for seven years. And if you're wondering where I went from there, that's where I made it to Arizona, actually. My husband at the time we were living in Chicago, he read my brother's book. So my brother had written a book called Goal Free Living how to have the Life youe Want Now. Had been out for a year at that point in time, sitting on our coffee table. And his name's Gary. Gary reads the book and he's like, oh, this is so great. I want to have a goal, free life. How do I have it? And so I asked him. I'm like, well, what are you Passionate about. And he's like, well, I'm passionate about traveling. And so I'm like, well, how do we infuse more travel in your life? And he was like a five year old kid bouncing up and down on the chair. He's like, oh, I got it, I got it. What we'll do is we'll buy an rv, we'll sell our home and we'll travel all around the country. He was an insurance sales, actually door to door insurance deals. He's like, I can sell insurance around the country now. That idea was really exciting for him. Not as much so for me, the thought of living in a box. But when I thought about it and I saw how excited he was, I thought, well, what am I passionate about? What can I do? And that's when there was a whole serendipity of events. But ultimately I ended up supporting a nonprofit organization that raises money for childhood cancer research. They do head shaving events to show solidarity and raise money. And so we partnered with that organization, bought an rv, ended up traveling around the country for a year, and we sold our home so we could live anywhere. He was selling insurance door to door from state to state, and I was doing events to raise awareness and money for St. Baldrick's. And at the end we saw Sedona and fell in love with Sedona. So that's where we ended up settling at that point.

When you look back at that time, what do you think are some lessons.

Learned for the traveling that we did? Oh my gosh. Well, for sure, I'm a big believer in follow your heart, follow your passion, follow your dreams, and that will guide you to where you need to go. And so this is really what it was for us. We just kept looking at what important to us, what do we love and what do we want to do? And so get buying an RV, selling our house in our 30s. Actually, it's a young time to be doing that and traveling. I mean, everybody else was much older and retired that we met as we were traveling. But don't wait. You don't have to do it like everybody else does it. Get out there and live your life on your terms, the way that you want to.

Would you do it again today?

Absolutely. But I would do it differently. We moved around a lot from state to state. We were in a state every two weeks. And so one weekend was for moving, and then the next weekend was about exploring. We wanted to see the monuments and the national parks and things like that, but it never gave us enough time to really Explore each of the wonderful states that we have in our country. But we were able to see 26 of them during that year. And if I were to do it again, I would stay a little bit longer in the places that we want so we can explore more.

How fun.

Yeah, that is a lot of fun. Very cool. Okay, so let's back up a little bit. Yeah, talk to me. During some, maybe these transitional periods, probably before Chicago or maybe even during Chicago, who other than your boyfriend helped you kind of get through all these times? Like, you know, humans like to have humans help each other.

Right.

Who's helping you? Who was helping mentor you and guide you on these things? Because was this mom calling back. Back at home or was it. Who was out there?

Oh, my gosh. Well, during. Well, while I was in Chicago, I would say, who are the mentors that I had? I've had so many. That's kind of the problem is I believe that my life is a collection of the experiences and the people that I've met along the way and that no one is more so than another, because there could be somebody I was sitting next to that has influenced my life. Just having a thought that was put into my head.

Anybody stand out, though?

Yeah, there's. There was one woman who I used to work with. I worked for Bose Corporation, and she was a powerhouse in that company. And I always looked up to her. She was my role model as a businesswoman and thought, I want to be like her. And when I ended up going to Chicago, somehow she ended up moving from Bose Corporation to the company that I was then working with. And so I had an opportunity to work with her again. And she's just. She was someone who could do so much but do it in a way that she never felt hurried. She never felt like it was an obligation. She never felt like when she spoke with you that she was any better than you. She just was able to produce a tremendous amount and do it in a way to lift other people up. And for me, that was always so important, is how do we do things when we communicate with one another? Since that's the world that I live in, is the world of communication. Why are we communicating? Are we communicating to make ourselves look good? Are we communicating to point fingers or put other people down? Or are we communicating to lift people up and have something move forward? And she was really one of the first people to help me see that in my life.

Yeah, absolutely. I'm curious because once you get you. You shared with us that once you got to sedona there was an obvious.

Need for a pivot.

What does that mean?

Well, before I was in Sedona, that was the 15 years prior to that, I was in human resources consulting and training and development for large corporations. And so, needless to say, if you do know Sedona, you know that there's not a lot of corporate America up there. So I did. I needed to take a pivot at that time. And so in that pivot, I was having a conversation with my brother. My brother, he just a few years prior, stepped out of corporate America himself and decided that he wanted to be in the speaking world. He wanted to do keynote and motivational speaking. And so he was having a decent amount of success at the time. And he's like, oh, if you're looking for something to do, why don't you come work with me? We'll partner up, and you can be my business manager, and we'll go from there. And so that was in 2009 that I joined him, and we had a wonderful run. In 2015, he was inducted into the speaker hall of Fame, which obviously opened up a lot of doors for him, opened up for me as well. And, well, I was able to live in Sedona and actually have a career that was. That was really the first step in stepping into something that I really loved. Personally. I've always loved human resources and what I got to do, because I thought I was able to make a difference for other people and their jobs in that role. And I loved my job, so I thought, okay, this is perfect. But this was the first time that I was creating something for me, not working for someone else, and. And I loved it.

It sounds like your brother. I mean, you two must really bounce off each other and influence one another.

Yeah. He really is one of the world's foremost authorities on innovation. He's traveled to over 50 different countries sharing to Fortune 50 companies, and has really made a mark. And so if you think about it, he's my brother, so I've been steeped in that environment, but I also, in working in his business, got to learn all of his principles that puts out there and really am steeped in it. So it's been amazing having that opportunity. We're not partnered up, working together anymore. My business continued to take off, but it was really, I think, a huge contribution from him that made me who I am today.

Yeah, absolutely.

Yeah.

Okay, so let's then dig into how you create Deb X. Deb X.

Well, Deb X came from. You know, as I mentioned, I had opportunities to work with some of the top keynote and motivational speakers in the industry. But if you were to watch where I was actually spending my time, it was in coffee shops or at my friends houses or their friends houses for people who were asking me questions about, you know, I've always wanted to get into the speaking industry. And I have a story that I've learned over my life lessons.

So did that happen a lot?

All the time. Really, all the time. I couldn't. There are so many people who really wanted to be able to be speakers but were so afraid of it.

Well, I was gonna say it's shocking because I feel like it's truly the second highest feared thing other than death. Right.

I actually heard it the other way, that it's number one over death. Oh, people are speak. Yes. Okay.

So shocking that so many. They're closet wannabe speakers.

Okay.

Why do you think that is? Is it more of like a. Like, I don't know, maybe ego or just like they wanna get themselves out there.

They have stories to tell.

Yeah, there are egos out there. Right. And it starts out, I think, from an egotistical place, like, hey, I'll be able to stand on a stage. It looks really cool. But when you get into it and you really start to craft your message, what you really get is that this isn't about me, is about the audience and what's the difference I can make for the audience. And there are so many things that people, I guarantee that you've gone through life circumstances that you look back on a man like, wow, I learned something so incredibly valuable from that that I know that if I were to give this away to other people, it could make a huge difference in their lives as well. And so people just. The fear of speaking became smaller in comparison to their desire to make a difference out in the world. And so it was 2017 when I realized there was such a desire for this, and I have a passion for it. So I created this program called Debex, which is a 90 day speaker training experience that allows people who have never stood on a big stage, perhaps ever before, to learn how to, over the course of 90 days, craft a clear, concise, a compelling message. Something that they would want to stand on a stage and share. And they graduate by standing on a big stage. Usually it's at the Tempe center for the Arts or the Scottsdale center for the Performing Arts. And they deliver their talks in front of hundreds of individuals.

Yeah, you're right.

I'd rather die.

Yeah. And a lot of People have that fear. It's our natural fight or flight reaction. Most people do not want to be up in front and be judged because we feel like we're going to be judged. But once you get clarity on what you want to say and you can own that message, there's nothing that can get in your way because you are so motivated. If I may, there's a story that we had where I know this is going to lead up eventually to our nonprofit, which we created from the tools that we had in debex. But in one of the programs, we had six speakers who graduated from a speaker circle. These are women who had been impacted by sex trafficking and sexual assault, and they had never, ever shared their stories with anyone other than perhaps maybe a family member or someone along the line. And this was for years. And somehow they decided they saw other speakers going through our program and were inspired by the courage of these speakers. And so they said, you know, I want to tell my story. And so we started out, it was just a 30 day program. They do it all online and they get to tell their story and own it again in a way where it's not pointing fingers and placing blame, but it's being told in such a way to give others some life lessons that they've learned on their journey to help them. And then after the very first one, we did, like I said, there were six graduates who shared their talks, we did something called a dare to share. And we said, you can invite female friends. We said that to come hear you share if you want to continue to share your talks outside of just our circle. And this was something we added. And in two weeks after they shared for the very first time, they had over 100 women registered to listen to them speak these stories that they, prior to, never told anyone for years yet when they could own their voice, when they could own their story, when they didn't have to walk around with shame or embarrassment, it lightens something up so much for them that they're calling all their female friends, saying, you gotta come listen to this. You gotta come listen to this. And so it really is when we can own that story that we have. And it takes away a little bit of that stage fright because you just, you can't wait to get on the stage.

I can see that. I can see the power in that. Absolutely. Yeah.

It's pretty amazing.

So how does that lead to amplify voices?

Well, we did, as I mentioned, we created in 2017 this program called Debex. We had some really great success. Hundreds of Speakers had graduated from the stages of the Tempe center for the Arts. And what ended up happening actually was the pandemic. And most people didn't want to be sitting around with 500 of their closest friends during a pandemic. So it was during this pause that I was having a conversation with my friend. And just to back up with debex, it was intended to be a speaker training program, period. That's what it was intended to be. But one of the surprising effects that we ended up seeing was how transformative it was for the speaker. Just as I was saying before, it's like all of a sudden, there's this power, there's this courage, there's this confidence that they've never had. So knowing this, we were taking a pause. I was actually having a conversation with a dear friend of mine. She was retiring from the airlines and wasn't quite sure what she wanted to do with the next chapter of her life. But she told me she wanted to work with young girls and women because the suicide rate had been out of control. And she was like, I just don't have those skills. I was a flight attendant. I don't know what to do now. I happen to know her background. At the age of 13, she had been abducted and trafficked as a young girl. And I said to him, like, look, I know your background, and you're a badass. There's something, you know, what can we do? Maybe we can help you write a talk. You never have to share it on a stage, but you have it in your back pocket in the event that you meet that person that your message could make a difference for. And I knew, given what a badass she was, I'm like, oh, I know that this is the right thing. But actually, what happened was she looks back at me with these really dead, vacant eyes, throws her hands up in the air and says, says, I can't talk about that. And for me, that was devastating for me, because here it is, one of my closest friends. I'm out here helping everybody else have a voice, yet here's my closest friend who couldn't talk about something that had impacted her over 50 years ago. And it was that conversation that planted the seed. Hey, what we're doing over here with debex is literally transforming people's lives, giving them more power, confidence in telling their stories. What if we were to take these tools and work with women who have been impacted by sex trafficking and by a whole host of very serendipitous events? People just started showing up on my doorstep, ready to have their voices be heard. And in 2021, our first set of women who were impacted by sex trafficking and sexual assault took the stage at the Scottsdale center for the Performing Arts. They donated their the. And these women got to share their triumph over trafficking with that group of individuals. And that was really the start of Amplify Voices, our nonprofit to work with different groups who have been historically marginalized or silenced to give them very simple tools to be able to tell their story in a way that could make a difference for others so that they can heal and others can learn from them. And it's been a. A really incredible journey so far that was in. We started in 2020, and we've haven't stopped since.

I think what I'm always fascinated by in these conversations is the initiative of thought. So you had a thought that could have been fleeting, but instead you dug into it and found a way to act upon it. Do you remember some of those early moments and some of the things that. Some of the.

The things or the people who propelled you forward?

I would say that it's the serendipity part that actually ended up propelling me forward. It was like, have you ever had one of those ideas that you knew you needed to have happen? Well, this was one of them. And so when the idea was presented to do amplify, When I saw the idea for Amplify Voices, I didn't know how to approach it because with the deb X, all I need to do is post on social media, hey, we're doing a debex, and we take the top 15 applicants and away we go. But you're not gonna do that for people who have been trafficked. Hey, have you been trafficked? Do you wanna talk about it?

You wanna talk about in front of everybody?

Yeah. It's not the path, right? So I said to my fiance that night, I'm like, hey, do you know of anybody in this world that might help us with being able to make inroads? And we thought of a woman that we had known from, like, three years prior, but we hadn't connected with her, didn't know how to get in touch with her, frankly, couldn't remember her name. So we thought, oh, well, that's so a dead end. But that didn't actually matter because it was the next morning, literally the next morning, where I got an email from her. And in the email, she said, and I quote, I am ready to have my voice be heard. And that was. So that was the first thing. And Then that's goosebumps. Oh, it's. I can't even tell without having goosebumps because it's just so amazing. But then that same afternoon, I get a call from another woman. She was gonna apply for a debex, but as you know, we weren't doing one because we were in the middle of the pandemic. But I'm like, hey, tell me what you've been up to. I haven't talked to you in years. And she was telling me about this nonprofit she was volunteering for. And I'm like, oh, I'm not familiar. What do they do? And she said, they work with young girls and women who have been prostituted. I asked her, may I ask why this is of importance to you? And she said, yes, I was an Epstein girl. Before there were Epstein girls. I was prostituted as a young Gu girl. So here we are. Now it's 24 hours from the idea being born, and two women literally show up on my doorstep. And when that happened, and it's been like that, this has been the ride. As soon as there's a clarity on a direction, it just seems like if you focus on it, it expands. And people show up that you need or resources show up that you need. And it has been that journey for us ever since. And so, yeah, we had seven women within two weeks from around the country who wanted to share their stories.

And I love that message. If you focus on it, it expands.

That is a big piece of deb x and amplify because. And that's why I think it's so transformative for people. Because if you think about we want to create change and think about, how do you create change? Well, you need different results in order to create change. And so how do we get different results? Well, we need to take new actions. We all know that, right? It's insanity doing the same thing over and over, expecting different results. So to create change, we need to get different results. And in order to get different results, we need to take new action. And so what's going to actually drive though the action that we take? Well, the answer for that is our view. Our view of the world is going to dictate the actions that we take. You see somebody walking toward you on the street, that is a scary looking person, you're going to act one way versus a nice, sweet lady who's humming a tune. So our view dictates the actions that we take in our lives and how we view these different voices, how we view these different circumstances in our lives. These women were able to take something that was so painful for them and focus on it to find where the triumph was. And in doing so, they found it. Because what you focus on expands. If you're looking in a particular area, you are going to discover. And I believe that's a big key for manifesting results in our lives. If you want to find something, if you want to learn something, if you want to create something, focus on it for a period of time, and you will get what it is you need in order to move forward.

When you think of some of the stories of these survivors who have found triumph in their life, I'm curious what the common thread is that you've observed.

It is really owning their story, something that they have forever been sweeping under the carpet and not willing to talk about because it always seems to be collapsed with shame and embarrassment, which makes no sense. These are victims of crimes, yet they're the ones walking around with the shame and the embarrassment, which is very common. And when they are able to see that their story can actually provide a purpose for somebody else, that can make a. Or that can be their purpose, rather, is to make a difference for somebody else. Somebody else who might be on that same journey. So women we did beyond breast cancer, women who had gone on their own breast cancer journey, wanted so desperately to be able to share these messages for other women who were on that same path that may not have learned the things that they've learned. They would show up at our training programs after going through a procedure that day, and they'd be in bed on Zoom, but they'd be there because it meant so much to them that they. Their voice could actually be an instrument of change for somebody else.

I think what's really important to hear in this is that these voices and these stories cannot just be spoken to one another. That I think, as community, in order for us to make change and to make sure that victims don't feel like it's their fault and carry the shame, we as community have to listen to their voices and their stories. And I really hope that that that's something that we see in the world ahead.

Yeah, I. I would agree. I mean, we can't have these voices make a difference unless we have ears to hear those messages. And so that's what we've been really trying to cultivate, is others who want to learn about these different perspectives and see the world from a different perspective. It makes it such a much more rich place to live in when we can look at it from a variety of perspectives.

And so I've digressed from the story of Deb. So sorry. Let's get back to Deb. I'm sorry.

All right. This is all part of the story.

What are you talking about?

It is.

It is.

Yeah. Let's go. You know what? I was curious. Sedona is kind of where we left off in the timeline. So what brought you to the Valley?

What brought me to the Valley? Well, that was actually the separation for me and my husband. When I was living up in Sedona at the time, I thought, well, if you know Sedona, nobody dates up there. People just recycle up there. Cause it's such a small pool of people. And I'm like, if I want to stay single for the rest of my life, I guess I could stay up in Sedona.

Nothing was being recycled to your liking? Okay.

So I decided. Okay. I was debating, do I move back to Boston where my folks were at the time, or do I love the weather here? Though in all honesty, I don't mind it being 115 degrees because I don't have to chip ice off my windows and rock salt my floors and all of that just to get to my car. So I really love it here. And so I ended up deciding the weather beat out everything else, and I made my parents move out here, so we were able to take care of that. So, yeah, I'm just in the. I was in Tempe and just moved to Gilbert about three years ago.

Okay.

I love that. Thank you for being in Gilbert.

Yeah, I love Gilbert.

So you shared something that. Well, a few words of wisdom, and I'm just curious what what this one means to you. So take the step in front of you. I'm sorry. Take the step in front of you to take and trust it. What does that mean to you?

Well, Debex probably wouldn't have happened if it weren't for that discovery that I had for myself. So when the idea came to me, it was actually part of a program that I was in. My best friend was candidated to lead this program, and she's like, well, you be one of my coaches. I'm like, all right, I'll be one of your coaches. And you have to come in in with a project. And I came in with a different project altogether that did not meet the requirements. So I had to come up with a last minute idea, which I wasn't happy about, by the way, because.

Were you in Gilbert leadership past 25?

No.

This was resonating so well with me.

All of a Sudden somehow. I've heard a little bit about that, yes. But so I, you know, I have this thing that I do that when life is thwarting me, I allow myself to have a little hissy fit, I guess you could say. And then at the end of my 30 seconds, or a minute, it could be a day, depending upon how big it is, but I'll have my hissy fit which allows me to just feel the emotions I feel. But then at the end of it, I stop and I say, this is what's so, because it is. This is what's so. Now what? I could want it to be a different way, but it's what's so. It's what's so and so. I did that when I realized I couldn't do my other project. And so. And it was in that moment that the idea of debex came to me in its entirety, which was just really a very. I call it my divine download because it wasn't there a second ago. And then all of a sudden it was. And so being in that space of this is what so is really the surrender space, it's like, okay, I surrender to this is what's so. And now what it puts me in action. And the one piece though that was missing for me was, was I've never done it before. I've never done this thing before, so how can I know that I can do it? And it was on the heels of the idea that I was going to a seven day retreat and they were doing sort of like a ropes course type of a thing. And they have this 30 foot pole that you need to climb and you stand up on this very unstable podium at the top and then you pivot yourself around, jump off and grab a trapeze. So that's what you have to do. And I was the second to last one out of 88 people to. So I'm watching everybody go up this pole and it became very clear to me when people start, when what happened to people where they couldn't go any further. I was watching them and it was very clear that they started to engage their negative thoughts. Their whole body would actually change and they would cease to be able to go any further. So I'm looking at this. I was in much better shape at the time that I was doing this. But I knew very clearly I would be able to, able to get up that pole. Not a problem at all. I knew I had an issue with balance and my concern was, can I stand on that podium?

What about heights?

The heights piece Was somewhat. I mean, I found out when I was up there. Yeah, my heights was definitely triggered at that point. But I recognized that, okay, I can trust myself. I know I'm capable. I just need to take the step that's right in front of me to take, take, and trust it. Don't second guess it. Don't let those negative thoughts come into play. And so I get there, I'm at the bottom of the pole, and I start climbing up the pole. Pole was easy to get up. And then I got to the part where I was nervous. I put my first foot on the top of the podium and then had to put the second foot on and push myself up. And I could start to hear the negative narration come up in my head. And I was like, that's it. I had some other words for it instead. But it was something like, nope, nope, nope. But I was like, f that basically. And I'm like, just trust it. Step where you know to step and trust it. And I did that. I stepped up, pushed up, turned around, jumped off the podium. And it was just a breeze. And it was so easy. And, you know, it's really great when you're doing it on a pole, but how do you bring that back into your life? And so for me, I saw that I need to trust myself. I need to step where I know to step. Just take that next step and trust it, and it'll work out. And so. So that is really what the process was. The debex idea came, I could see what I needed to do, and I just kept stepping and stepping and stepping until it just kept going. And so my philosophy has always been to take the step that's right in front of you, to take and to trust it. And it has really.

It seems to be a little bit like a story of life in a way.

Right? Yeah.

Because we do this throughout our entire journey.

It sounds like the entire journey, it took me a few years before I figured. Figured all of that out for my own life. But it's really powerful when we can actually trust ourselves, because that's where we get our real strength from is, I believe, inside, from ourselves.

Well, and I think what occurs to me is that we hear it and we believe it, but then there's actually trusting. And that is the challenge.

It takes a lot of. And sometimes it doesn't look like the way that you want it to look, so you start to question it and second guess it. But when I think about all of the things that have happened that appear to be potentially on the surface A negative thing has always moved something forward for us. So we were doing, we do screenings of our documentary and we would always have the women either be on zoom or fly out because they were from around the country to do sort of a panel discussion. And so one of the documentary screenings we had, a group of the women ended up having to not. They couldn't go actually. It was a very last minute thing. And so everybody's all up in arms about, oh my gosh, what's gonna happen here. We don't have our whole panel. And it dawned on me, we've been doing these panels for a while now and we keep bringing all these people in. What if we were to build relationships with people who are right here in Arizona who don't need to get on a plane or drive six hours to be here. And we ended up partnering with a gentleman from Homeland Security, the director over at asu, sex trafficking and trafficking and assault group there. And we've made other relationships that they can come in and be our experts where it's just expanded our opportunity. Instead of going, oh, this stinks, these people haven't shown up and it's going to upset the whole thing. No, instead we were able to go, okay, what is this teaching us here? What's the lesson we need to learn in this particular circumstance to help us move forward? Yeah.

So going back to Deb x and encouraging people to tell their story and find their voice. What for those individuals who are really just like, absolutely not. Never. It's not going to happen. What do you, what's the word of.

Encouragement that you, what do you tell Sarah?

I'm just, I'm just, I feel like there's so many people who are like, that is never going to be an option for me.

Yeah. And by the way, you don't need to stand on a stage to do it. Your voice can make a difference in your families, it can make a difference in your communities, it can make a difference in your relationships, it can make a difference with your kids, yourself. So to go through the process, even if you don't, I don't. Not everybody's gonna wanna stand on the stage. And I don't advocate actually that everybody stands on a stage. Cause that's not right for everybody. That's not what's calling to them. And that's one of our values is go only as far as you're called to go. That keeps everybody safe, that they're making the decisions to keep moving forward. But find the. If you can do two things. One is find the lesson in your own life that's made a huge difference for you, really dwell on that for a little bit and be excited about it. Our tagline is, if you have 8 minutes to change the world, what would you say? And I guarantee you that all of us sitting in this room right now has something incredibly powerful that we've all learned on our own journey, that if we could learn how to package it and give it away, could make a difference for others. And so what is that? First start by looking and getting excited about your own discovery, your own life. And so many people are walking around going, oh, I can't be a speaker. I'd be the imposter syndrome. You can't be an imposter syndrome. If you're telling your story and you're telling it from your perspective, your the expert in your life, in your story, in your lesson. So you can't screw that one up. And so if you can get the lesson that you've discovered that's really meaningful for you, and then just think of one person or one group that that message could make a difference for and it'll start to chip away and put the priorities in perhaps different order, saying, okay, you know what I want to talk about that. There's just something, Sarah, I'm gonna guess for you is that you just haven't figured out that thing that's worth getting up there and beating your chest and standing on the roof and saying, this is really important. You need to hear this. And you have a lot of things that you do talk about all the time now. But what's that one thing for Sarah, personally that would make a difference for you?

Yeah, and I do think it's a. There's a diff when you live in your head. There's a difference between correction, like constant course correction and just running right. And I think sometimes you're like, I'm just course correcting. I'm just. But really, you're running from something that's hard.

And look, it's not everybody's jam. I think that everybody should at least inquire into what's their story. If they had eight minutes to change the world, what would they say? At least consider what that question is for yourself. It's kind of a fun game to play when you look at that. And it really helps has you discover who you are, what's important to you.

Ben, do you want some crayons and paper? You could start.

I built this narrative in my story. I have my eight minutes ready to go.

Let's go. Oh, that's awesome.

Good for you.

You're ahead.

I wish we had more time. Cause I'd be asking you some questions.

Oh yeah, that's awesome. Well, you are an amazing, very inspiring individual. I would love to just sit here for an hour and another hour, an hour more.

Yeah, yeah, it'd be great.

Yeah.

Very, very inspirational story. So thank you for sharing with us.

Thank you.

Well, I had one more question then.

Let's do that.

I'm just curious, what does the next five to seven years look like for you? Paint the picture for us. Where are you?

Well, I can only see out maybe for the next two. And so for me it would be focusing, continuing to focus on amplify for the next two years. We've been doing it for four. I believe that there's two more years to get it really up and running. I've noticed for myself, I'm sole leader of the programs that we have, which is not sustainable as an organization. So we have been blessed to be tapped on the shoulder by Nationwide Insurance's training and development department who came to one of our documentaries, was moved by what we were doing, knew that we needed to replicate what it is that I'm doing and offered to create what's called a train the trainer program to teach our graduates and other individuals who want to be able to lead our speakers. So circles those 30 day programs, we have that opportunity. So in this coming year there's going to be a lot of other individuals leading the content that I've been leading for the past. Well, however, eight years it's been and I'm really looking forward to that. To see other people out there doing it. That's the day that I am looking forward to, is seeing others leading this program instead of myself.

That's a great one. That's how it grows, right?

Yeah.

Beyond yourself for sure.

Well, I'm grateful for you. I'm grateful for the work that you're doing in the community and for the time with you today.

Thank you.

I feel like a better human because I spent time with you. Thank you.

Thank you.

It's been fun for sure. And I know everybody out there has enjoyed this. And if you do, subscribe to our Tribe so you can get these in your inbox and know when we have other great guests like Deb. So thanks for listening. Guiding conversations with community leaders.

Ben, let me ask you a question. How do you see other community members being involved in this podcast?

This is going to be a great opportunity for so many people in the community to have a chance to be heard, if they want to tell their story or if they just want to be part of this journey with us and help sponsor it in a way that helps bring more people to the table with us. So I think there's many opportunities at hand. Whether you want to again be on the show. Reach out to us, let us know what your story is and how you think you could be part of it. We'd love to hear from you. Reach out, let us know, and we'll see if we can make that connection.

Sam.