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You're listening to Shorts and Suits conversations about business, leadership, culture and families through the eyes of two entrepreneurs in the small business community with Ben Kaulfman and J.W. rayhans.

Alright, so today's topic is weaving faith into your work. And that's gonna bring up some alarms for some people just in the topic itself, but I think it's worth talking about because it's important to you and it's important to me. And therefore it's something we're going to talk about today.

Absolutely. And you know what? I'm looking forward to us talking about this because you're right, it does have some sensitivity to it. But the reality is, though, is if we change the word a little bit, then we recognize that it comes up a lot more often than we might notice. So if you change the word faith to beliefs. Right. How many business owners are totally comfortable talking about their beliefs about business? Yeah, right, right. But if you use the word faith now, all of a sudden it's like, can we really talk about that? So I'm glad we're talking about it. I think it's important to talk about. And so especially with how much you and I weave our faith into our company, whether our teams realize it or not, it's there.

It is, it is. It's a foundation of, I think, who we are, you and I, as individuals and our upbringing and certainly how we operate. So let's dig into this a little bit. Let's unpack this a little bit. So I think first thing we should talk about is, you know, from your perspective, jw, how do you introduce faith into your everyday business workings that people maybe not even understand or even notice? Like, is there certain things you're doing or certain things you're acting and, you know, practicing that people don't even notice that is bringing your faith into the work.

Yeah. And so the first thing that comes to mind for us is, is we have a set of values and behaviors as an organization. And it's something that is an internal document that everyone on our team is aware of. They're aware of it before they actually agree to join the team. Because at the very top of it, it says, this is who we agree to be. And those values and behaviors, if you maybe don't have a religious background, or maybe you don't have a faith background, or maybe you don't have a Christian background, if you just looked at those, you'd look at them and go, man, those are just great principles to live by. The reality is they came out of the Faith that I believe in and that we agreed to basically reflect in everything that we do, even to the point of the fact that in our weekly team meeting. So I know you guys have regimen to just your team structure, as we do. And so we do a weekly team meeting every Monday afternoon. And in that packet, the preparation packet for that every single week, is our list of values and behaviors. It's in there because it's in there weekly. In fact, sometimes we have to remind our team, make sure you review the whole packet, because they're like, okay, well, I've seen that every single time. But that's one of the first ways that comes to mind, is through our values and behaviors. But there's many other ways also. So let me pause there and turn it back over to you, though. What's one of the first ways that come to mind that you weave faith into your business with your team?

This is a super obvious one. I think that with or without faith, you could still have this practice, which I think is how you treat people. I think giving people a common courtesy and with treating with respect and dignity sounds simple enough. But honestly, that is living the way you should, in my opinion, in a faithful way. And so, you know, I see that from lots of different operators and lots of different perspectives, and not many people act that way or perceive people that way. And so I think just by being who you are and living true to the word that you believe to be true, and then living that way and treating others that way, I think is a very strong indicator of bringing faith into work. Totally unseen, totally not noticed. Except that it is, right?

Yeah, it's one of those where when people make comments like, man, there's just something about Ben. There's just something about him that I like. I just like the guy, you know, and it doesn't mean that, you know, there isn't times where you've got to be a little bit tough or where you've got to, you know, hold people accountable. It has nothing to do with any of that.

Right.

It goes back to, yeah, but how is it that I treat people? How is it that I try to treat people even if I don't get it perfect every time?

Yeah.

So I just realized something, though. Maybe we should take a step back and not overlook the obvious. So even just in its broad definition of faith and what faith is, if we just look it up in the Webster's dictionary and what definition would be there? I think the reality is every entrepreneur out there, every business owner out there, has to have some Level of faith, otherwise you wouldn't go into business in the first place. Right. Because in that definition, what does it mean? It means that you're stepping into something that you're not quite sure what the outcome is going to be, but you step into it anyway.

True.

Isn't that required of every business owner?

Yeah, it is. Yeah. Doesn't necessarily mean you have to bring it to the biblical sense, but correct. Faith in its sense of having faith in your vision, having faith in your team, having faith in your desire to do something different, that's going to make a difference in this world. That. Absolutely. I agree 100%. Yeah.

And so we are, we're kind of taking it and saying, from a biblical standpoint, how do we weave faith into our companies? But I think it's great to acknowledge the fact that we all walk in faith. Now, everyone might have a different belief system when it comes to biblical faith or others, but it still requires us to take risks from time to time in just everyday life.

Yeah, it does. So that kind of segues me into the next thought, which is, you know, there are some companies that I look at and I respect. Some people know the name Dave Ramsey. He's one of those guys that's out there and he's big on wealth management and debt freeness. But he also is big on running his company through biblical beliefs. And I always looked at his company and thought, how could I do that more? Because he's able to interweave, you know, weekly prayer sessions with his team, and they have a lot of biblical references in their content that they do. And after listening to him talk about that a bit more, I learned that, you know, it's really up to me as the owner to implement that. And sometimes that's the scariest part about it. Right. Because you don't, in this day and age, you just don't want to offend people or make someone believe that, hey, if I work here, I have to be under this belief standards and that's not it at all. But at the same time, this is again, looking at Dave Ramsey's example, it's okay to do that. I mean, you can, you can say here at this company, these are what things that we value and this is what we believe. You don't have to believe that to work here, but we're going to do these things and you're going to participate in that stuff because that's what we do here, and that's okay. I've never gone to that extreme, but I've always thought that Would be very interesting to take that approach. I've had conversations with some of my colleagues here, some of my teammates who have similar beliefs that I do and have expressed that, like, how what can we do to make that more reality? What can we do to bring that more to the forefront so that it's more exposed? Because I think sometimes by not saying something, you're also saying something.

That's right. Yeah, exactly. And so, you know, what I think of in this moment as you're talking about that is other ways that we weave faith or biblical principles into our work and into our culture here at Ray Hans Financial or Joshua Development is through moments of reflection. So these by human nature, cause us to think and to be grateful and to express humility. One of the ways that we do that is, you know, we regularly will just as a team, call a client and just ask them how their day's going, and we get them on the phone, and, you know, I just say, hey, it's jw. I got the whole Ray Hans Financial team here. And everybody says hi. And, you know, we get a moment to hear what's going on in their life. But that's a way that we weave some of those principles in. It's a way that we weave in some of these beliefs that we have. You know, just reflecting on some of the work that we get to do on a regular basis and just how thankful we are that we get to do it. You know, I was visiting with somebody yesterday, and they were sharing about some work that they're doing in Ghana, and they shared that, you know, out there, they have five or six or seven or eight days a month that are blackout days where they just have no energy, so food spoils and companies can't operate. And there's some of these things that we take for granted here because we walk in, we flip on the lights every morning, and we go to work. It's these moments of reflection that I think also weave that in in a way that's comfortable for everyone, but it's just good for the human soul.

Yeah, that is good. That's really good to take in, too. When people say things about your company and they talk about JW and they say how great it is, the aura you have about you and that. What do you think about when they say that about your team?

I love it.

Do you feel like that's a reflection of your faith as well?

I do. I would say I think it's probably, on the surface, more of a reflection of our values and behaviors, which, again, at Its foundation comes from that. So the answer is yes, I do feel like it's a great reflection on what we believe. I think it's a great reflection on our faith. I think it's a great reflection on who we are as an organization. And by the way, just the reason we keep our values and behaviors internal is because our belief is that if we're living these out every day, then these are the words and phrases that people will use to describe us anyway. To us, that's one of the greatest compliments. It comes up every once in a while. Our team will be visiting and we'll see a comment that someone made or a post that someone made, and they're using one of the words or phrases in our values and behaviors and go, okay, that right there is an expression. That's how we know we're living these out. That's how we know that we are following who we say we're going to be. Because most people don't even know what they actually are.

Yeah, yeah.

That's what I believe is a great compliment, is when you do hear that and they go beyond just, you know, here's what Ben is like, or here's what JW's like, and they're referring to other people on your team that way. Now, I think some of it is also in who you hire. Right. I know you guys have a great hiring process. We have a process that we go through as well, but some of that is to find alignment in beliefs, values, behaviors, faith, whatever words we want to use. We're looking for alignment to those things.

Yeah, I think that's a good point. In our hiring process, once I get the chance to interview, I have a series of questions I typically use that I've written, that I use often. But one of them that always gets people is I'll ask them. I'll say, hey, we have a series of values that we live and run by. There's six of them in our company. What values do you hold near and dear to you? Yes, and that's so telling because I can tell a lot about that person just based on how they answer that question. And that's a personality question, right? Not necessarily a higher or fire kind of question. It's more of like, who is this person and what are they going to say is the value or values that they hold near and dear? And it's interesting if they align with what we already have because they don't know ours yet, necessarily.

Right.

Unless they looked them up. But if they don't, it might give you a glimpse into the type of personality that they are. And you know, I think I lean on. I never, I guess I don't go down the whole religious or faith based type of questionnaire when I'm interviewing by any means. But I think I'm looking for those signals. And I think that those signals are pretty evident if you know what you're looking for and you're aware of yourself. And so I think it helps make decisions on personality types.

Yeah. So let me ask you this question because you're a marketing specialist. You've been doing marketing and media and brand and story for a long time. What are your thoughts on how can a business express their faith, if you will, or their values, if you will? How do they do that through their brand or their marketing or in a way giving that sense to the public? Even if someone's never actually interacted with.

You, there's a number of ways you can do that. I think at the root it's the story that you tell. You get to design and craft that story and we often help people with that, but making sure you say it in a way that resonates in those regards without actually having to say it. Sometimes it's important to say it though. Sometimes you actually have to come out and say, hey, you know, we are a faith based organization, whether it be through symbol symbolism, like using Christian symbols that you have in your literature or just basically saying in how you word that. But I think the story, it starts the foundation and then the actions that you do. So let's just say you're working with a nonprofit or you're hosting some type of a charity thing. Those type of things, I think are community based actions that you can do that signify to others that this is the type of company you are and this is the kind of work that you do. I mean, the Good book will tell you that there's a lot of need for us to be charitable in the work that we do always. And that's one of the things that we should hold very true to our heart. And so I think by doing that with the business and organizing your marketing to kind of illustrate that that sets some of the presidents there that I think people will see and they'll either resonate with or won't, depending on their type of personality. And you're going to want to attract like mind people. That's who you want to work with, right?

Yeah. So by doing that well, so by expressing your story well and then having your actions live out that story, then you'll probably naturally connect or people will naturally connect with you when they feel the same way, when they believe the same thing.

Yeah.

And so that's a way that faith gets weaved into even your marketing. Let's say it is.

So question for you then.

Okay.

Because I know we're getting on time here. What's the biggest challenge you have or that you identify with with regards to expressing faith within work? Like, there's got to be something that hits you. It does for me. But what's something that hits you when you think, ah, that's a big challenge. How do I get past that?

That's a great question.

Of course it is. That's why I asked.

I know you do come up with some great questions. I don't know that that's something I've thought of. Earlier you mentioned prayer at work. I've never thought about the team praying together, but as you mentioned that, I thought, well, when I played sports, whether we had players on the team that were Christian or not Christian, but we all still prayed together. You know, some guys prayed silently, some prayed out loud, but we prayed together. So, I mean, that almost posed a challenge for me when you mentioned that of, okay, well, is there a way to pray together as a team and do it in a way that is respectful of everyone and that they can feel comfortable doing it? Yeah, I don't know.

That's a great analogy. I had forgotten about that. It's also sports in my life. And you're right. I think we always would bow our heads in, say a quick prayer before we go out to the field for a game. And often after the game, we would probably bow our heads and have a quick reflection as well. And that was public school systems, and that's still done today in many schools. And I think that's possibly, certainly a good challenge for maybe both of us to take that on and incorporate that into it. So I think that would be definitely one of those. I think for me to answer my own question, it would have to be just the challenge of knowing, getting past the ego side of my own. My own constraints of being okay with sharing what I know needs to be shared. You know, there's a lot of fight in my own internal mind when I think about, like, expressing my beliefs or expressing my opinion on a particular subject matter because I don't want to rock the boat and I don't want to be that guy that's now confrontational because I don't have a status quo common view. But sometimes you have to put a line in the sand out there, and you have to stand for something. And I think to truly be faithful, to truly be a Christian business owner or business operator, you kind of have to go on that ledge sometimes. And that's, to me, one of the biggest challenges I fight is just knowing how far, close to the edge am I willing to go.

Right.

And the older I get, the more willing I am to deal with, honestly. But that's. I think forever will be one of my challenges.

Yeah. I think this has been a great topic for us to visit about, and we hope that all of you that are listening, that this has been something that maybe causes you to think a little bit. And I think maybe we just encourage people to examine that, spend some time reflecting on that and seeing just what are the different ways that whatever faith you have gets reflected through what you do. And, you know, maybe that's also something that we can ask all of you that are listening is to remember, just be authentically yourself.

Yeah.

And be good with that. Be confident with that. Not that you're, you know, we're all always learning, always improving, always changing, but still to always be authentically you and let that live out through what you do.

Yeah. Let's end with what we just suggested. We start with. So maybe quick, bow our heads and say, father, thank you for allowing us to have time together to be able to share our thoughts through this podcast channel. For all the people that out there listening, help them hear words from us that maybe help reflect on their lives and help them be inspired or be able to take on these challenges that are being presented to them in their world. We thank you for all the blessings that you provided for us, and we're glad that we're able to share this with you.

Yes, absolutely. And thank you for the gifts that you provide to us and to others. Please be with the people that are challenged and that are going through struggling times. And we just thank you that you've got a plan and you've got an overall purpose for each and every one of us that makes all of us totally unique and extremely valuable. And love the breath that you give to us. So thank you.

Amen for that.

Amen.

All right, thanks, J.W. this was good.

Yes.

Catch you next time.

All right, sounds good. Thanks.

Thank you for listening to Shorts and Suits. Your hosts are Ben Kaulman of Rocket Media, a digital marketing agency, and J.W. rayhans of Rayhans Financial, a financial investment advisory firm. For more information, go to shortsandsuits.com if you find this podcast helpful, please help us by telling a friend and rating us on itunes. Subscribe to our tribe and learn more@shortsandsuits.com.