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You're listening to Shorts and Suits conversations about business leadership, culture and families through the eyes of two entrepreneurs in the small business community with Ben Kaulfman and J.W. rayhans.

Alright, so we're going to talk about what's the right amount of transparency, the big topic, the mysterious word of transparency. Okay, so here's the premise for this. Running a business with a team requires a lot of communication. Sometimes you have to motivate them, sometimes you have to build up their confidence. And then there's other times where you just got to tell them how it is. So what's the right amount of transparency? And can you share too much? Is that possible?

This is a, this is a big topic.

Yeah, it's going to, it's going to be a lot to unpack here. So, yeah, I think the way we start with this is probably talking about what type of communicators are we. You know, I can speak for myself. I'm a very open, like, I think I share way too much sometimes. But at the same time I think most people that don't know me might think I'm super reserved because I have this maybe presence about me where I feel like people think I'm intimidating sometimes. It's, that's what people tell me. I'm like, what? Come on. Yeah, just a big teddy bear. Right. But you can share too much. And I think sometimes I take that degree because I think I feel like if I'm working for somebody, I want to know, I want to know what I'm getting into. I want to know the ins and outs, I want to be part of it. So, so that's how I am. What do you think your communication style is like?

Yeah, and this is the reason why I say it's a big topic is because, you know, as business owners, you shoulder a lot of responsibility. Right. And a lot of times, you know, you have to see things in a bigger picture while also understanding what's happening here and now. And so you know, when you ask, well, what type of communicator am I? You know, and you're aware of this, but one of, we actually use some tools to help us identify very early on, like what type of communicator someone is, what their strengths are, how they, how they go about doing their work, what environment they prefer to work in.

You thinking like the disc profile, Myers Briggs, that kind of stuff.

Well, we specifically use Gallup's CliftonStrengths.

Oh yeah, right.

And that's because it helps us identify natural talent. So as a As a, as a leader, by understanding that about people and not taking years of working with them to figure out like what they're great at, it allows me to modify my communication methods on what's going to be received by them. And that's where I think the delicate balance is as leaders, is you're going to have your own communication styles. And at the same time you have to be understanding of what's the communication style of your team so that they'll receive that information the way that you intend it. And so my communication style is one is I prefer one on one communication. When we're communicating in a team, then I try to make sure that I'm keeping, you know, keeping an eye on the room, if you will, to see, you know, do I need to go into more detail if people already had enough detail? And so I think there's a lot of almost like a dance that goes into the communication and that leads to the dance that happens with transparency, which, which can also, also lead us into a conversation of authenticity as well. And how does transparency different from authenticity? But I think there's a great place to start on communication styles.

I don't know much about the strengths finders, which you obviously know a lot about that one. We've done a little work on the disc profile, D, I, S, C. And so, you know, if you've known anything about that. I'm a high D, which means basically I've got a short attention span on listening to people talk about things. So I've already tuned you out when you're talking about that. Sorry.

No, I figured you probably were. And that's because I know your communication style.

So. That's right.

With Ben. I know. Look, man, I gotta have my stuff together ahead of time. I gotta go in, let him know what it is, get it out, get to the point, and then he'll let me know if he wants any detail after that.

But you're absolutely right. Knowing your team, I've got a great team and I have to understand each of them in that perspective because there are some that I have to make sure I'm doing a certain approach, you know, how you warm them up to the idea. You can't just bring it on them. And there's others that need a lot of data to be able to do their own fact finding before they can come to conclusion. So you're right. You figure that out as part of that process. So that being said, then, then how do you communicate with your team? Like when you, you just mentioned you have a Couple styles where you like, one on ones. What's your preferred method, though, as far as the team as a whole? Are you, like, going to email this stuff out? That's the way you like to communicate? There's a lot of people that like to do that way. Are you bringing them all together in a team huddle? What are you thinking?

Well, you know, and I think here's the first thing that comes to mind is a lot of that ends up being situational. Right. You take a few months ago where, you know, Covid started happening and we weren't really sure, you know, what do you do? How do you respond? There's some situations like that where I think you do just kind of have to be upfront with your team and say, look, I don't know how this is going to turn out. I don't know. I don't know what's real and what isn't. But here's what our approach is going to be, and we're going to adjust along the way. And that's where you use in a little bit more direct of an approach to say. And it's almost like an approach of humility, too, of just going, look, I don't know everything about this situation either.

Right.

But here's what I believe we should do.

Yeah.

So when I say situational, that's what I'm talking about. Where there's other times where it is a bit more regimen or, you know, where you've got routines like our weekly team meetings, you know, there's a certain regimen, there's a certain recipe that we use to those team meetings because we know what the communication styles of our team is. And then we also know ahead of time how can we plan for certain topics?

I think if I had to pick going down this path, I much prefer to have the team all together and be able to share in an open format where we can have dialogue, maybe less one on one, but more in a group setting. And I think that provides a lot more transparency for me. That's how I prefer to do it because they can see how I'm presenting it. They can feel the intimacy, which you can't always feel over a phone call or things like that.

Right, right.

And you can really get clear on things, I think. But then also, I'm a big, huge believer in memorializing. Everything that I do, and I say this over and over again to my crew is, listen, anytime you speak with a client or team members or whatever, after you're done talking, memorialize that. Put it down in email or notes or whatever and send it out so everybody knows what you just talked about. Because that always, always, always when you have these group meetings, you forget 90% of what was talked about and just nothing ever happened. So memorializing things, I think, is an important part of that communication process.

Yeah. And I think this is where, you know, even some of the people that are listening and you might capture some things. But I think this is a great time to give a reminder, you know, write some of this stuff down because of exactly what you're talking about. You know, we could. We could end up with someone that's listening to the entire, you know, 13, 14, 15 minutes of this podcast, and then, you know, a day later, they're wondering what we talked about, but they're like, man, I remember Ben said something about. And then just write it down.

Yeah.

And that helps people retain. So if we come back to this transparency, it's, you know, really looking at the level of information that you share and why you're sharing it.

So that's the next kind of question I was going to have for you that we could talk about here quick, is how much perspective or how much transparency is enough or can. Is there too much that you can share with regards to it? So let's get more specific about this particular instance. We all went through a recent time where whatever kind of company you were in, you had to do some adjustments to the effect with COVID Right? Yep. And so either you were in a lot of trouble because financially things just completely shifted for you, or maybe a little trouble. I don't know where you fell on that spectrum. We were kind of in between, you know, and so we didn't know. There's just so much unknown.

Yeah.

And when there's unknown, there's unrest. And that's when you and I, as leaders, we have to decide how do we calm everybody down.

Yep.

Right. Even though we don't. Heck we're doing, we still have to calm everybody down. Right.

Yeah.

That's just. Transparency comes into play.

Yeah. And. And what this causes me to think of is, you know, there's been all sorts of research and studies as to, you know, why do. Why do people follow leaders? Like what. What allows them to have the confidence to follow a leader in. In any way? And whatever leadership capacity that is, whether it's as a parent, as a business owner, as a coach, whatever it might be. And there's. There's actually. They've actually found that there's about four. Four key components. And so while we're on this topic of transparency, it leads to, okay, well, what are you doing to build trust with people? Well, one of the ways that you build trust is by providing information. You provide. You provide the scenario. Right. You provide the direction. So as you're building trust and then, you know, you gotta, you gotta, you gotta create stability and create hope, and then you also have to show some compassion. And so any of those areas, I think, are what people see as transparency. But then if we really think about it, if you think about the people that you trust. Right, right. Most of the time it was probably because of the feeling you got when you're around them. Are they being honest with you? And so that's where I think transparency really holds the importance, is how honest are you being? And honesty comes in different forms and fashions, but that one's a big one. When it comes to transparency.

100% agree. Trust is directly related to transparency. And there's not much dotted line on that one. It's pretty solid. And I think that's where people find a lot of perspective in how they see their role in the business. And going back to the situation we were just talking about with this unrest of COVID you know, even if you didn't have the answer of how you're going to solve this, which nobody really did, you give them a path or two. And I think that's one of the approaches we took was, hey, if this happens, we're going this way. If this happens, we're going that way. So you kind of know the options, right?

Yeah.

And that's one way to address kind of tension, situations like that when there is no unknown.

Yeah.

But even when you do know and you have to give either good or bad news in other regards, being clear and just. And just being clear about that, so you don't beat around the bush and be like, well, how many humidity hum. You just get right to it and you say, okay, here's the thing, and then you unpack it for everybody because they have to listen to it, they have to hear it, and then they have to digest it. They probably have to hear it again and hear it again before they finally cognitively understand it.

Well, what you're kind of getting to is helping share the why behind what's happening. Because that's where I feel like people get a sense for really understanding the level of trust they can give is when they know why decisions are being made. And I'm sure you've probably experienced this too, where people might not even agree with the decision that's being made. But if they see why that decision was made, then sometimes they can get behind it anyway.

Yeah.

You know, and one of the things that I think is great about your leadership style is you do share a lot of information. So here's where I guess maybe off the cuff, I'm asking you to be a little bit vulnerable, maybe, but have you ever had a moment where you shared a bunch of information and then kind of observed with your team where it was like, oh, wait, maybe I shared a little too much, and now I got to kind of come back and help them understand a little bit clearer what's really going on?

Yeah, absolutely.

If you ever have those moments where you share too much and it's like, okay, now what do I do?

Yeah, I've definitely been down that path and done those. And here's what it was that I realized. It was when there's. When I've created more uncertainty than when we started. And that happens when you share too much sometimes. Because if you. If you lay out all the things that are going on, the scenarios and you put them in your seat, meaning they have to now realize the gravity of all the things that are going on. And maybe they aren't used to making those type of decisions. And I say they least loosely because people all absorb information differently, right?

That's right.

So some will probably look at that and go, oh, my gosh, now I'm way more stressed. Before I even came in here, I wish I would have never known the situation. I would have just told me, hey, we're working on something. Instead of, yeah, we're working on something. Here's what that is. I don't know what we're going to do. What do you think we should. That can happen sometimes. And that's, I think, where you get too far on that level. Financials are kind of funny. This is your world. But financial is another thing I think people think about with transparency is how much is too much from a financial perspective to share with the company. Like, I'm pretty open about that. Like, other than giving you people access right into the financial system we use, we pretty much share a lot of stuff. And I got a lot of perspectives on that. And mine is basically, again, knowing where we are with the business and how much you impact that and how we're. What the progression of the company is, good or bad gives you clarity onto what we're doing, and it's part of the path that we're on. I always felt like that's one of the things that Everybody should know in the businesses, the bigger the companies, the harder it is to do that, I think. But here we are, we're both small business guys. I think it's important for everybody in the team to know where we are financially. What are your thoughts on that?

Well, so here's what I want to start with, is you mentioned something that I hope our listeners captured, and that is the way that you can recognize that maybe you've given too much information is when there's more uncertainty afterwards than there was going into it. So I hope everybody caught that. That was good. So when it comes to financial information, here's. Here's kind of a measuring stick that I use, if you will, is what are the goals? So if there's financial information that needs to be shared because of the goals that we're approaching, then that's the financial information we shared. Now, there are times where you just kind of got to give the overall picture. But here's what I've noticed about financials is a higher percentage of the world doesn't necessarily fully understand the dynamics of financials. And so what I've always tried to do, especially when it comes to our financials or even when I'm explaining financials to other people, is explain financials in a simplified way. So that way you're still giving them the information they need, but you're describing it in a way that they can understand. Because I think what ends up losing some of the feeling of transparency is if all of a sudden you're digging into financials or you're getting into an area that people just have a hard time grasping rather than simply connecting the dots for them. So that's the way that I kind of approach the financial conversation is in as simple a way as possible, connecting the dots of, okay, yes, if this is where our profitability is, why does that matter? Or if here's where our revenue or marketing is, here's how it helps us reach that goal, or here's why it helps. It helps us to understand that we're behind in that goal. So it's connecting the dots when it comes to finding financials rather than just giving them the financials.

Yep. And I've learned over the years I'm not a great financial guy. I always tell people that because just when I look at spreadsheets, my eyes gloss over. But give me graphs, give me charts, I'm good, right?

That's right.

But now I'm learning the more I can bucketize things into almost like parables that you would tell a Story.

Yes.

Hey, you know, whether it be profitability, like you mentioned, or, you know, one of the things, I think financial stability is how much Runway do we have with our cash flow. Right. So putting that into a perspective people can understand, hey, we've got this many payrolls in the bank right now, right? So they go, oh, okay, well, we're good for at least this many months before we'd be in trouble, you know?

That's right.

That I think people can relate to. Because you're right. If you just throw in big numbers, they're gonna look at it and go, that's a lot of numbers. Or big number. And they can't relate it to. Well, remember, we have all these expenses, too.

Yeah.

Because everybody relates it to their world. Right.

Well, that's relevant. Right. Each person's gonna interpret that differently. Some numbers that look small to us look big to others.

And.

And so as business owners, when we're used to seeing bigger numbers, but sometimes our team members, they're not used to seeing numbers like that, they automatically think of, like, their personal finances. So when they see a certain big number and if it's under an expense and they're thinking, holy cow, like, how in the world could we be spending that much money again? That's where connecting the dots come in to be so important. So this is such a cool topic on transparency, and it's one that I feel like, you know, we could. We could probably have an hour discussion around that.

We're not going to do that.

No, we're not going to do that. But as we close out, how do you differentiate the difference between transparency and authenticity?

That's a good one. So transparency, I think, is just the dissemination of information that, you know, people need to understand to make decisions. That could be numbers, that could be any kind of situational data. I think transparency is unleashing that information so they can see it and understand it. Authenticity comes for how you deliver it, I think. And it's coming from your heart. It's coming from a source of truth beyond maybe the data. And it comes from relationships, too. I think that you have to have had that established relationship for people to have that true authenticity to even be recognized.

Yeah, yeah, I follow you on that. And the only thing that I would add to that is authenticity is where you're really recognizing and leaving yourself open to questions. Where if people want to come to you one on one afterwards, and they say, hey, I'd love to have some more detail on this that they can understand ahead of time that you're willing to do it, you're willing to give it. And that I think that's where they get a sense of authenticity in addition to being transparent.

Well, now you're back to transparency.

That's right.

This is ying and yang, kind of. All right.

I know.

This is a good one, jw.

Yeah, no, I appreciate it. Thanks for everybody that's listening, and we already looking forward to the next conversation.

Talk to you later.

Yep. See ya.

Thank you for listening to Shorts and Suits. Your hosts are Ben Kaultman of Rocket Media, a digital marketing agency, and J.W. rayhans of Rayhans Financial, a financial investment advisory firm. For more information, go to shortsandsuits.com if you find this podcast helpful, please help us by telling a friend and rating us on itunes. Subscribe to our tribe and learn more@shortsandsuits.com.