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And today we're going to talk a little different, aren't we?

You know, this guest is a breath of fresh air that we did not see coming, but we are so blessed to have in our community. Okay, who we got this special guest grew up in Central New York and is a first generation college graduate who has dedicated his career to student success and the transformative power of education. With over a decade of leadership within the Maricopa County Community College District, he now serves as the interim president at Chandler Gilbert Community College. Prior to his role, he was the Vice President of Academic affairs at Phoenix College and has held various leadership positions throughout the district. A former college basketball captain turned endurance athlete, he finds balance through training for triathlons and marathons. He is a husband and a proud girl. Dad, he. He has called Gilbert home for over 10 years. Please welcome Dr. C.J. wurster.

Hey. Hey. Welcome.

Thank you. Thank you. I appreciate that.

She always makes us sound really incredible, doesn't she?

Yeah, sounded.

You're like, did I do all that to you?

Is that me?

Yeah.

Thank you for that. I appreciate it.

Well, we'll see how that goes when we get into rapid fire.

Here we go. Would you rather find your dream job or win the lottery?

Dream job.

What is your guilty pleasure?

Watching 90 Day Fiance with my wife.

All right.

Would you rather host a party for all your friends or enjoy a dinner for two?

A dinner for two?

Have you ever moved across country?

Yes.

Would you ever appear on a reality show?

No, I don't think. Unless it was 90 Day Fiance, I guess. Well, I couldn't do that, though. No. Can we? This isn't being recorded, is it? No, I would say. No. Definitely. Definitely not.

Yeah, no one's listening to us.

Definitely not.

Okay. What is your favorite dessert?

I love me some crumble cookies.

Okay.

Those are the best.

What song makes you smile?

The song you are by Lionel Richie.

Okay.

Good old Lionel Richie. Yes. Are you cautious or bold?

I am cautious.

What is your favorite rainy day activity?

Oh, I would say probably just binge watching something.

Okay.

Good thing we don't have a lot of rain around here.

Don't have to worry about it here for sure.

No binging happening around here.

Yeah.

Okay. Glass half full or half empty?

Half full.

Love it.

Awesome.

Good job. You passed those tests. Isn't that easy? That was great, right?

Or at least 9 out of 10. I don't know if I get a full credit, but yeah, nine out of ten at least.

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All right, so. So take us to growing up in Central New York. Small town. What does this childhood look like for you?

Yeah, you know, I feel so. I grew up in a small town called Lansing, New York, and it's right in Central New York, right on the Finger Lakes. Beautiful place, especially in the fall. That was probably my favorite time of year because that was when the, you know, the leaves were changing, the season's changing, and all of that. Winters were brutal as you could imagine because winter seemed to go from like October until like June. So it was pretty rough at times. But it was a nice small town of about 10 to 12,000 people. My mom and dad were both kind of blue collar type workers, worked very hard.

What was your football team then?

The Bobcats. The Lansing Bobcats.

Lansing Bobcats. Okay.

Yeah.

What about NFL?

Oh, what team did I follow? Well, I was kind of all over the place. I didn't like the Giants or the jets, so that's usually the first go to. I was, I followed the Bills a little bit. Eagles. Somehow I got on an Eagles bandwagon and now I'm off. So with the super bowl coming up. But yeah, so I was more of maybe a Bills guy.

Wait, does that mean you're a Chiefs fan this year?

No. Oh no, I'm out on both of them. Just hopefully good food and good football.

Well, this is going to go south real quick with the Chiefs fan over here, but that's okay. We forgive you.

Well, I was going, Lucy's not an Eagles fan. Then we could have had some good conversation for a minute.

You know, we should get Back to the Lansing Bobcats, all about him.

Right? Okay. Go for it.

Okay. Yeah. So small town. I had an opportunity to play. I played a lot of sports growing up. My parents were always at every single game. And now, being a parent myself, I don't know how they did that. You know, they made the time to make sure they were there to support me and be there for me as I was growing up. I have an older sister who is five years older than me, and I remind her of that all the time, that she's older than me now. Her and her husband and family live out in Hawaii. So she reminds me of that all the time. But, yeah, so great childhood. It was a nice town to grow up in. After I graduated high school there, I went to college in Rochester, New York. So went a little bit further west to a little bit larger of a city, which was a nice transition there. Played basketball in college, Had a great college experience. Then after I graduated college, it was, wait, wait, Guard.

Shooting guard.

Shooting guard. I started out as a point guard, and then we brought in a point guard that was better than me. So they moved me over to shooting guard and had had four years of tremendous experience there. I got to be a captain of the team. It really taught me a lot about kind of those initial leadership traits and skills, I think, that are still benefiting me to this day, and just kind of rallying around a common cause, trying to do good things together and having some fun with it.

I actually am not surprised that you were captain, just because I'm sure those leadership skills were evident in you from a very young age. Do you remember who it was that maybe helped you first identify those opportunities?

You know, outside of. I mean, my parents have always been kind of encouraging me and supporting me. I would say my. I had a very, very close connection with my high school soccer coach and my high school basketball coach, and those were two men that I really looked up to that kind of helped to shape me. And it was kind of one of those things where they probably saw more in me than I did in myself. But I think that that kind of drew out some of that potential. I've always been a competitive person. I don't like coming in second. I always want to win. I always want to do good things. But to then bring that into also being a leader, I think is a separate skill set. That having some good mentors along the way certainly helped me a lot.

Absolutely.

Before we leave that phase, you're really measured by. In this day and age, my kids tell me all the time. Can you dunk or not? So that's the question. Were you a dunker or just a three Kai?

Just a shooter. Because a three pointer is worth more than a dunk. So I always held firm to that. That was what I could do well. And I knew my limitations, too, so.

So.

Well, it's always important to tell yourself what you need to hear, so that's great.

Okay then, Sarah, you can fire back. Don't worry, It's a lot. Totally allowed.

It is a lot. So you moved to Rochester. What were you pursuing at that time?

Criminal justice. Actually, I started out as an accounting major, and then I took my first accounting class and I was like, I don't want to be an accounting major anymore. This is not for me. So I switched to criminal justice, and I enjoyed that. I had thoughts of maybe law school, maybe going down a law enforcement path or something along those lines. And then I took the LSATs and realized that law school might not be for me.

Just one time.

Yeah. Because I was like, you know what? I just didn't feel the passion. You know what I mean? I thought it would have been a cool journey to go on, but it was like, am I really going to feel fulfilled by this? And it just didn't seem that would be something that connected with me. So. So yes, I didn't necessarily go down that.

Okay. Looking back at that, do you. Are you glad you pivoted or do you wish you would have pushed a little harder?

I'm still really interested in the law, but I would say I'm very pleased with making a change because I feel like the impact I'm able to have is very fulfilling to me. And so I'm happy with.

I respect that. There's a lot of truth to that. They always say that when things come easy, and the grades, of course, reflect that. That's the pulling draw. Right. That's why I was an art major. So. Yeah, but.

Good.

Glad you listened to your numbers. That's good.

That explains why we have the crayons on the table. Thank you.

Well, everything's color coded.

I wonder what those are for.

They're Ben's. Don't worry. Don't ask questions.

I could draw mean. Sarah. You should see that.

Oh, my goodness. Okay, so after LSATs don't work out, where do we go?

What?

What do we do?

Yeah, so that's an interesting question. So as I was finishing up my education. Excuse me. I had an opportunity to do a couple of different internships, but then I started working at A group home for youth. And it was youth who were age 10 to 14. And it was hard to have the impact that you wanted to have. But I realized during that time I want to be doing something where I'm helping people and where I'm contributing and, you know, where I'm, where I'm making a difference. And so I was doing that. And then right as I graduated, my parents moved out to the Phoenix area and I was like, okay, I've got no real full time job lined up and I could stay in Cloudy Rochester as a newly college graduate or I could follow them out to Arizona. And so I did. So I came out here to the Phoenix area and was trying to kind of figure out, okay, now that I'm here in this new place, you know, this new beautiful place, but what am I going to do? Do I. Actually when I first got here, for about the first little over a year, I was, I was doing pool maintenance, I was cleaning pools, I was doing yard maintenance, I was doing, you know, kind of some really tough stuff, especially in the middle of the summer. That was no, no joke. But I was doing that. And then I got my first opportunity in education, which actually happened with. I had an opportunity to work at the Phoenix Job Corps center, which was a great opportunity, working with youth age 16 to 24 individuals who weren't in school and weren't in. And weren't employed either. So I got to work with them as kind of almost a counseling, like a career counselor kind of advisor type capacity. I was able to have a couple different promotional opportunities there. And then I also became the social development director. So kind of related to all the things that you would think of as like student life kind of activities.

So wait, how. Okay, so you get into this. I can understand how you can get into it, but I mean, how do you learn these things? Because that's far from criminal justice. So is there somebody that's helping you, that you're under the wing somehow that gets you into this stuff or what?

Yeah, I definitely had good mentorship as I was kind of learning. I think that there was also this. I had this just like this real keen interest in. I want to learn everything that I can too. Right. Like, I wasn't waiting for someone to say, hey, do you want to be involved in this new thing or this new committee or club or group? It was like I was taking the initiative to say I wanted to be involved, probably overly involved in everything that I could. And I think that allowed me an opportunity to kind of not just Know my job, but start to learn other people's jobs, too. That then made me a little bit more valuable as I, you know, continued to have opportunities to move up. I could see it through different lenses and kind of relate to the things that people were dealing with. So as I became in more of a leadership perspective, I was able to also kind of lead with a little bit of understanding as well, and I think that was very valuable.

Was there a lot of, like, on the job training kind of situations for you where you kind of learned through. Yeah, yeah, pass or fail moments?

Yeah, for sure. And, you know, I think one of the things that always kind of humbled me and grounded me a bit was that some of the situations that I was helping some of our students navigate through were unlike anything I had ever personally experienced. And, you know, and it was. I never have taken that for granted in any of the work that I've. That I've done where, you know, coming from a position of, you know, being able to help, but also try to understand and give compassion, even if I haven't walked in those same shoes, you know, just really understanding that everybody's going through something. And. And so I kind of. I think I learned a great deal of compassion and how to lead from that kind of. That starting place, through that work.

Even as you share your journey, it's obvious that you stumbled upon your passion. Obviously, you had some interest in working with youth back in New York, and then that translates into an opportunity here. Where does that passion come from?

Boy, you know, I think it's just kind of sort of an internal feeling of, you know, it feels good to be able to try to help people. Right. And. And especially when it. When it comes to, you know, I didn't have the best academic record all the way through. I mean, there were times where it was like, if I wasn't playing basketball, I probably wasn't gonna make it through college. And so it's not like I was a, you know, academic all star, but. But the power of education and knowing the power of, like, you know, having that opportunity to, like, learn and grow, and how can I then take that? And, boy, if I could make that a career, I mean, you know, it was like, man, there's nothing more rewarding than to be able to give people that guidance and support as they go forward as well.

Well, and I find it fascinating because even in your role today, it makes you have a little bit better understanding of the challenges that students are facing, where they're coming from, and just some empathy for the fact that not everybody is a true academic, but there's still great opportunity through education. So.

Yeah, and I think it's scary too, for, for some people, right? Like, it's like, well, college isn't for me or higher education or education isn't my thing, but really it, it can be for everybody. And that's, I think, you know, one of the key things as a, as a leader too, in that, you know, in higher education now is, you know, we have to take, we have to understand that, that we have to be ready for students as they come to us and ready to serve them. And everyone's coming from a different place, different background, different experiences, different thoughts on education. We're told different things. I mean, some people are told you're going to college no matter what. Some were told, you're never going to make it. Right. And so we have to be ready to serve every student that comes onto our campus and say, hey, this is a place where we're going to make you feel loved, we're going to make you feel cared for, and we're going to do everything we can to give you the best experience. There has to be the personal responsibility from the student as well, then to take that and say, how can I make the most of that? This. But if we can get them as they come through our doors, knowing that we're going to wrap our arms around them and we're going to make it a safe and a good place for them to be, that's a huge step forward that I think everybody kind of needs.

Yeah. When you look back on your own journey as a first generation college graduate, did you realize the significance of that at the time or feel the pressure of it, or did it just evolve?

I think kind of, I didn't feel the pressure at the time. And I think part of that is, you know, I had the unwavering support of my parents and, you know, that was just huge and something that can't be overstated. My mom worked at Cornell University, you know, in a support role. And so even though I was first generation, I wasn't coming into it without knowledge. And, you know, and so I didn't really feel maybe the, the pressure because I knew I had the support, I guess. And try as I might, I, you know, I tried oftentimes to, to, you know, make it really hard to, to get to the end. But. But no, I was able to, you know, with that support, just kind of know that I, you know, I was confident that I'd be able to, to be okay.

Yeah. What brought your parents to the Phoenix area?

They had always wanted to move out west. They were kind of considering Phoenix or Vegas and kind of going back and forth and the timing was just never right. I mean, like, like I said, I was playing sports year round. My sister, you know, was, you know, it was always like, just not a good time. They didn't want to interrupt our education. The school system where we were at was. Was really good. I mean, great public schools where, where I was from. So I think it was. They kind of sacrificed maybe, you know, wanting to make this move. They wanted to make sure that we were in a good place and so kind of delayed things a bit. But, yeah, I think it's kind of. They've made their dream of being out here and being retired out here, which I think is fabulous.

Yeah, that's great. So what's next? What happens next in your journey?

Yeah. So after working for within the Job Corps world for about a decade, a position opened up at Gateway Community College, which is one of the Maricopa Community Colleges. And it was dealing with workforce education, occupational type training, training, so like workforce type training. And it seemed to be a really good fit for things I had done and things I was interested in. And so I applied for it. I was fortunate. That was back in 2010. I got hired on. I quickly kind of, like I mentioned earlier, I quickly tried to just get involved in everything. And I was, you know, again, I was probably like overly involved on things where people are like, why are you on this committee? You don't really, you know, this has nothing to do with your job, but I was just really trying to learn as much as I could, you know, continuing to work on my skills of working with students, starting to work with faculty, working with staff, building community partnerships, all of those different things. And so I was at Gateway for 10 years from 2010 to 2020, and I held different areas of responsibility before moving on to the next step after that.

It seems interesting that that would be the time in your life when also you're growing personally. Right. And probably. Is this when you met your wife in this time frame?

Yeah, so I met my wife in 2010. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Which was so lots of pretty, pretty amazing things happening around then during that time.

Is there anyone that comes to mind is really guiding you in your personal or professional growth?

You know, I would say that at that point, you know, my. So my now wife and I. So my wife and I will celebrate our 13th anniversary actually next month. And even from like the beginning when we first Started getting together. Like, there was this sense of just, like, belief in me. I was partway to my master's when we met, and I was like, man, this is gonna be a lot to finish. And it was like, it was just a constant support. I was like, well, yeah, of course you're gonna finish it. You know, it was.

Why wouldn't you?

Yeah, exactly. I mean, so there was just like this. This, you know, just kind of support and belief that, yeah, you're gonna get your master's. And then I started talking about my doctorate, and it was like, she didn't even bat an eye. It was like, yeah, if that's something you want to pursue, go for it and do it. And, you know, so I think that she really helped to shape me in a lot of my, you know, kind of my career growth, my personal growth, and kind of just starting to have that belief from a career perspective that, man, I could do some. Some pretty cool things and have a really good impact. And also knowing that I've got, you know, my partner alongside of me, that's, you know, right there for wherever. Wherever this all goes was. Was incredibly powerful.

Yeah. Okay. I'm curious about your love for endurance sports. Help me understand that. Where did that come from?

Yeah, so. So it's funny because I. The first marathon I ran, I told my best friend who. Who lives back east and told him I ran a marathon. He's like, it's like, you.

You ran one, so you discover this. Okay.

Yeah. Cuz I.

Was it. Was it the rock and roll or what was it?

It was. Yeah, Back when it was PF Changs. Yeah, I.

What year was that?

Man, that must have been 2000. Mid. Somewhere in the 2000.

I don't remember him. You didn't see him there?

Because I never ran the full. I always ran the halfs, but I. Yeah, okay.

Yeah, yeah. Bald guy running down, running kind of slow.

There was a light coming from the mountain. I might have been you.

Yeah, it was probably me. That reflection comes in pretty hot.

Remember that guy who passed you very quickly when I was in the last.

Mile and he's coming in on his 26th. Yeah, yeah, that was. That was probably him. No, I tripped that guy. I would have remembered him.

Oh, okay. All right.

Yeah, Yeah, I. You know, so I. I had a couple friends that. That did, you know, they. They had run the marathon the year before, and they were like, hey, we're gonna do it again. You want to do it? I'm like, no, not really, but I'll go along with you, it'd be cool to hang out, whatever.

So that one's great because at the end you get the beer and stuff. At the end of the day. That was a good one.

Yeah, yeah. It's lots of good, good finish line type stuff. And. Yeah, so I did that with, with them and then I just kind of took off from there. I mean, I. So I've done. I've done about 15 full marathons. I've done, you know, probably about that many half marathons. I've done a number of half Ironmans. So I got. You do the one here, the half Ironman. Yeah.

Okay.

Yep. A couple times here. And yeah, that swim in Tempe Town Lake is something that I. It's always an interesting one, but it's a part of the race you gotta do.

Okay, here's my question. Cause I know one of your biggest fears. So if that were shark infested water, or maybe not shark infested, but maybe there's a shark or two, would you do it?

As long as there were a lot of people around me, yeah, I think so.

Oh, you'd put other people in the water?

The odds are I just gotta swim, I guess. Like stay in the middle of the pack, I guess, which is where I am anyways. So I guess it would work.

That's how guppies do it. Why not, right?

Oh, my gosh.

What are the odds? Right?

So when you, when you. What is the inspiration for continuing. What are we calling it? Endurance sports activities?

You know, for me, I think everybody's got their own thing, right? Like I. So I train solely on my own. You know, I'm not in any, like, triathlon clubs or running clubs, anything like that. I really take it as, like, that is my time to be, like, better, a better me.

And that's what I call it, my me time.

Right? Yeah, yeah. And just to get out and like, you know, clear my mind and, you know, and not have, you know, the distractions and just, you know, that allows me to be a better, A better husband, a better dad, a better leader, a better, you know, anything that I'm doing. And so. And I've learned that about myself, right? Like, if I go a few days without being as active, like, I can feel it. And so I think there's a sense of, you know, it helps me be the best I can to the people that I, you know, have the opportunity to be around. And I also like. I just like. I like seeing how much I can do. Right. Like how, how. How far can I Push myself, like, what's, you know, for as long as I can. I want to, I want to continue to do this because I think it's, you know, it's not something, you know, I don't have a wall of trophies. I don't have my medals hanging up. I don't have, you know, it's not about that as much for me as it's like, you know, how can I continue to challenge myself and just continue to push myself?

But you got a lot of T shirts for sure.

I do. I actually have my T shirts made into a little blanket.

Oh, there you go.

Where does the competitive spirit come from?

I think I've just always, I've always been, you know, I just, I love to try to be the best individual I can be. I love to try to be the best team that I can be on. I just, you know, and it's not about like sticking it to someone else as much as it's like, man, when you've got a high functioning team that is rolling along and doing great things, I mean, there is just nothing that can compare to that. So I think I just, I'm kind of driven by that feeling.

It was basketball when he got moved out of the point guard position into the shooting wing, that's what set him off. And ever since, he's got to show the world that's right. He is the point guard they missed out on.

Had that grudge going on 27.

Okay. Okay. With your training. Are you Garmin? Apple. What Are you Apple?

Apple. Watch.

And that's, that's helpful too, right? That you suppose you track everything on that, right? Not. Yeah, that's motivating too, to see all those numbers that you can put on that.

Yep, yep. And see. Yeah, exactly. And just kind of see the progress. And there. When I first started to learn how to swim, you know, there was, there's. Obviously everybody's got their ways to tell you how you should be doing that, but there was always, There was something I read once, it was like, just try to be a fraction of a second better than you were the day before. And you know, and that kind of always stuck with me where it's not, you know, sometimes we think, I'm going to do this thing and I'm just going to get better and better and better all the time and make these huge leaps and strides and, and sometimes, you know, sometimes it's just a little bit of an improvement, whether it's in, you know, athletics or whether it's at work or whatever. Like. But Just as long as you're keeping that momentum and that progress.

Yeah. I call it the 1% rule. 1% every day. Yeah.

I mean, you really give me hope. So tomorrow I'm gonna shoot for a 29 and a half minute mile.

You can do it.

Good day.

You can do it. I'm sure. Yeah.

I actually really envy leaders who carve that time out for themselves. I think especially in a position like yours, it could be really easy to find excuses not to do it. And the fact that you are very self aware that that's the time you need, I envy that. I think that's. That is really important and I wish I was better at it, so.

Yeah, but I'm sure you have. I mean, everybody has their thing where it's like, let me check out a little bit and like.

Yeah, I just don't think that' when.

You'Re in that Starbucks line and you're waiting for your drink and you're just.

You mean the local coffee shop?

Whatever it is. Whatever it is. It is. You know, you're in that drive through and you're just kind of sitting there chilling, listening to your yodeling music and stuff.

Yeah.

That's your time.

That's your me time.

When I'm knitting and you don't knit.

I don't know, you might cross stitch with the needle and poke things or you might have that, you know.

Okay, sorry.

It's about him. Sorry.

It's about him.

Okay, back to the.

This is his therapy session. Gosh. Just kidding. So terrible. We're sorry. You didn't know what you were getting into.

Now I've got the image of Sarah at a local Gilbert coffee shop, knitting while you're waiting for your order. See, that can be the thing. That's true. The yodeling part.

Really practical.

What are those dolls called where you stick the needle in. You're like Pain in People.

Voodoo dolls.

Oh, yeah.

That's what you have.

I only have one that looks like you. It's so weird.

I am so honored. I'm your voodoo dollar.

You are. Wow.

Carry with me everywhere you go.

Okay.

Oh, wow.

Okay.

Okay. So where were we? We were.

You were asking about mentors. That's what you're talking about.

No, but then I'm saying in his life, in his journey professionally.

He got married and then you jumped into endurance. And now we're going back to school.

Gateway. So I was at Gateway for a bit. Community college.

Yeah.

And I'll actually. So I'll tell something that kind of relates to mentors and my next. Kind of, my next move. So. So I was at Gateway for 10 years, and then I had an opportunity. I went to our district office for a year and I worked on. So we were approved to start offering bachelor's degrees. And then it was like, okay, now how do we actually offer bachelor's degrees? And so I was. I helped to provide leadership to kind of figure all of those things out. And I did that for a year. And then a Vice President of Academic affairs position opened up at Phoenix College, which is the oldest college in our system. It's over 100 years old. Great history, great tradition. And I applied for that position as an interim vice President of Academic Affairs. And that is where I would say, from a professional perspective, I met the most incredible mentor that I've had in. In my life. So Dr. Kimberly Britt, who's the president of Phoenix College, so she hired me as essentially her replacement. So when she became. She was vice president, she became president, needed a vice president of academic affairs, and that was me. And she could have brought me in and second guessed things that I did and said I wouldn't have done it that way. And this is how I did it from day one. Not once did she do that. It was almost like this sense of, you know, like, this is your show, you run with it. And she had this belief, and it wasn't just in me, you know, but. But it was in others too. It was like this belief that you're almost like you're better than who you are and better than what you are and you're gonna do great things and, you know, so I had the opportunity to work with her for two years as her vice president, and it was two of the most impactful years. And things that I saw her do and things that I learned from her are things that I tried to build into the way that I lead now, and I think I always will. And she's lucky to have her as a friend and a mentor.

But I can appreciate that because it also means she was confident in her decision. And I think that's important too. If you really have confidence in the decision you made, then you have to let go and let them do their thing.

And she certainly did. And it was interesting, the two years I spent at Phoenix College, just, you know, a lot of love for so many people there and, and just the kind of this sense of, you know, just community and teamwork that we had was. Was something very special.

But what do you think is the greatest lesson from that experience that you carry forward?

I. I think the. Trying to do what I can to help inspire other people to. To, you know, to think bigger and think bigger, better, and think like, you know, that we're going to be okay. Anything we have to face, we're going to be okay as long as we're doing it together. And, and just kind of holding true to who. Who I am as a leader, but then also the college that I have the great opportunity to lead, making sure we stay true to who we are, too. Not trying to be something else some, you know, or try to just appease, you know, people or whatever, but just be true to who we are and let's do great things. And, And I think one of the things that I have always, especially in higher ed, like, found to be the case for me at least, is that I think, you know, to be a great leader, you have to inspire others, but I also think you have to allow yourself to be inspired by others.

Yeah.

And, you know, and there's so many great people that I've had the opportunity to work with at Gateway Phoenix College and now at Chandler Gilbert Community College that inspire me to want to do better for them and want to, you know, like, let's just keep doing great things together is kind of how I try to approach every day.

I also think that takes humility, especially in a leadership position, to put the title aside. And I know you shared that it really isn't about title for you. And I wonder where that comes from. Why is that so important to you?

Because I've seen both sides of that. I've seen leaders who want to have their thumb on everything. Um, and we're going to do it this way because. Because I'm the boss kind of mentality. And I think that that's, you know, there's some situations you need that, and if it's an emergency situation, you know, whatever the case may be, perhaps that's the right approach to take. But I think what I've also seen is the power of someone just being human. And I think as a leader, the more you can be, you can just be who you are. I mean, nobody wants to see someone who is just bringing, you know, some fake Persona every day or, you know, kind of, you know, just saying what you. What they think you want to hear, you know, just kind of like placating. I don't think that that is something to truly have the environment that's important to me and, you know, and the culture that I think is important and especially in the work that we do in higher education. I mean, we're. We're trying to change people's lives. And people come to us not because they don't want to be successful, but they come to us because they want to be successful. And I think the more human side of everything we do, we can bring the human side. We can lead from a place of love. We can say, we've all got some really good strengths about us. Let's build on those and be great. I think that's. It just goes a long way. And I think people notice that, and they know the difference between a leader who's just saying, I want to be the boss versus I want to lead alongside you. And. And I want to see what we can accomplish together. And that's kind of how I've tried to lead.

Yeah. How did you find yourself as the interim president at Chandler Gilbert?

Yeah, so it was actually a very interesting transition. So I've been there since July 1st. And so last summer, there were a number of key leadership vacancies in our Maricopa district. And our chancellor decided to make a very bold move. And he was coming from a place of, we've got these key vacancies at a number of colleges. So There was a Dr. Peterson from Chandler Gilbert had recently left to go to Salt Lake Community College. The president of Paradise Valley Community College had left. Mesa Community College had left. So there were a few different openings that needed to be filled. And our chancellor made the decision that, you know, we've got some great internal talent, and he made a number of moves in our district to fill those key leadership roles. And so one of those things was for me to be brought over to Chandler Gilbert Community College as the interim president. So that was announced, I want to say, late May, early June. And then my first day on the job was July 1st, and here I am still.

Yeah. In those first few months, what are some lessons learned? As you look back.

I think one of the biggest lessons was like, I came into it with. You mentioned the word humility before. I came into it with a tremendous amount of humility because it was a different process. And I actually, my first all college meeting, I told them, I said, I want to get the elephant in the room out of the way right now. I realized that you didn't pick me to be here. You didn't go through a normal, quote, unquote, normal process to select me. But just know that I am here, not with any agenda other than to help make this college move forward and help make us do really good things in the community. And I Told them, I'm going to get to know you. I'm going to be available to you. So I think that was a helpful first step where it took away some of that. Who is this guy? Right. I mean, I've been in the district for a while, so I was fortunate to have some good relationships. And I didn't come into it as a new guy, so to speak, but I was new to a college at Chandler Gilbert that's got a lot of pride in what they do. And so I also made it a point to say, you know, we're going to honor the history of this college. We're going to focus on where we are now, and we're going to move forward together. And so I think just kind of giving that. Coming into it with a little bit of grace and humility and saying, like, I'm not here. I'm not chasing, you know, a presidency position somewhere. Like, I'm not out applying for everything. I'm not, you know, I was asked to come serve in this role, and I'm. And I am going to do it to the best of my ability every single hour of every single day. And that's what I committed to. And I've been all in since day one.

Absolutely.

What.

I don't. I don't know all the politics or how the processes work with the schools that you're with, but is there a process for you to become the permanent president of that role? Or is that even an option? Or how does that look?

Yeah, I think that's something that I know the chancellor is working on right now, or I'm assuming. I don't really ask, to be honest with you. But. But I know that, you know, our chancellor is working with our faculty and our staff to. To determine what they, you know, kind of which direction they want to go with things. And. And the reason I say I haven't asked is because I. I mean, I. I feel like, you know, I'm. I'm trying to do the best that I can for the college right now, and that's not going to change. If they said, here's the next steps in the process, like, who I am is who I am. How I lead is how I lead. And so I'm interested in continuing to move the college forward, and I'm going to stay there as long as they'll have me there and try to impact the community.

And I can say from my perspective, as at the chamber, I saw you jump in with both feet, even with the interim title, you made relationships very quickly. You did a lot of exploratory conversations to understand what our business needs were, how to support our K12 community. I mean, you really, for lack of a better word, all kinds of blazing. I mean, you really came in ready to serve.

So I appreciate that. I think that, you know, and I've shared this with you and others that, you know, I've. So I've lived in Gilbert for 10 years and so now to have to be working and living in the same community and you know, my, you know, my five year old is, you know, she just started kindergarten and you know, so it's like, I mean, there's like a different sense of, you know, from a leadership perspective and being in such a prominent and fortunate role that I'm in, you know, as leading Chandler Gilbert Community College. It's like, man, the impact that we're having on the community and then the personal investment of that makes you look at things differently. And I've loved getting to know, you know, so many people in the community and start to, hopefully, hopefully people will see the Chandler Gilbert showing up and we want to be involved with, you know, what's happening in the community. From, you know, from my position all the way throughout the organization, that's kind of what I've been hopeful that will set that tone.

Yeah. I am also very impressed in the progression of Maricopa Community Colleges over the years. I think that they've really worked hard to stay relevant and impact the communities that they serve. What is something that you're really proud of from that, that perspective?

You know, I, I think we, we do a lot of, we do a lot of great things when it comes to meeting the, the workforce. We're the largest workforce provider in the state. I mean, we do, we do such an incredible job of trying to understand what business needs are and what industry needs are and then meeting them.

Yeah.

And I think that a lot of times we, sometimes there's a, there's a, you know, this idea that, well, that's only workforce training and it's only these, you know, occupational programs, which we have tremendous programs. Excuse me, but we also have, you know, all of our, all of our humanities. Right. All of our, what you would think of as kind of the liberal arts areas of our college all play a part in that too. Because what we're doing is we're preparing whole individuals. So we're teaching you the technical skills, but we're also teaching you how to communicate with others, how to show up on time, you know, how to have articulate and effective conversations. And you know, so it's like we're really giving people opportunity to just have such great ability to move up and continue on to that next thing and hopefully achieve their goals. The other thing that I love about the community colleges is so I'll share just a quick story. So we do on at Chandler Gilbert, we do teal Tuesday. Teal is our color. And so every Tuesday you'll see a lot of college pride with, you know, the teal color very prominently displayed. And in the fall, I asked a couple of my team, I said, hey, find a couple students that are wearing teal and I'll treat them to lunch in a couple days. And so they did. So they found them. And then, so then I find myself at lunch with two individuals. One was an 18 year old student who was gonna, you know, she was just starting with us. She was gonna continue on, get her psychology degree. She was already had her plan mapped out. She was gonna go to Asia or possibly out of state, but she knew what her next steps were going to be. The other person that I was sitting at lunch with was a 74 year old student who was just taking art classes. And they take the art class every single semester because they love it. They love their faculty member, they love just having that kind of sense of community. She wasn't trying to get a degree, she wasn't trying to do anything with it other than she just loved it. So it's like I had these two different, totally different perspectives. But that's what we do in our community college. I mean, we want to meet people where they are and let's get them what they're looking to do.

Equally important. Yeah. Can you share? You seem very in tune with the next generation of the workforce. And I'm curious if your daughters appreciate.

That.

When they're speaking in their slang, I feel like you know what they're saying and you can translate and I'm sure that they're very grateful.

She's of course referring to your kindergartner here.

Well, yeah, it's interesting, she's got her own slang these days, but I would say, you know, so my older daughter's 20 years old and she is in the equine program at Scottsdale Community College. And you know, and I've seen over, you know, I would say that, you know, my, my advice would kind of be met with eye rolls. I think, you know, the last few years of high school as, as a lot of us have probably experienced. But, you know, but I would say that, you know, to see how she's, you know, in the last, you know, couple years, how she's grown, how she's, you know, she kind of knows, you know, a little bit more where, where she's headed and, and she's, you know, I mean she's, she's working hard, she's going to school, she's doing all these things and she's so it's pretty cool. So I'm, I'm, I feel like I still get some eye rolls when I have to ask her for help on like Instagram and stuff. I still can't figure out how to do certain things. So it's good to have her as a resource there. And she laughs at that. Yeah. Very proud of her. And then, you know, and my younger one too. It's amazing to see the, you know, that five year old attitude. Boy, that can be a ride some days. She's a great kid.

Yeah, absolutely.

Well, this has been a great conversation. Thank you for sharing us your journey and all the really great adventures you've been on. Anxious to see what's next for you and where that goes. We'll keep an eye on that for sure.

Thank you.

Absolutely. Thank you for your service to the community. You are a delight to work with. Your team is fantastic as well and we love having you here at Chandler Gilbert.

Thank you. And I can't let this go without saying howl. Yeah. So my Chandler Gilbert folks will know what that's all about. That's our tagline. So I had to end with that or else I'd probably be guessing.

Hey. And for the record, he's wearing a snazzy teal tie, so he's in. He should deserve a lunch, I guess. Maybe.

Absolutely.

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