Just Getting Started

You're listening to Shorts and Suits conversations about business, leadership, culture, and families through the eyes of two entrepreneurs in the small business community. With Ben Kaulfman and J.W. rayhans.

Why would anyone want to start their own business?

It's a crazy idea.

It is a crazy idea. And, you know, there's a lot of risk and uncertainty and sometimes don't even know what all you're getting into. But, Ben, you're the Shorts guy in this conversation, man. Why do you start your own business, Shorts?

I am. You know, for me, it was when you are doing the work and you're loving what you're doing, suddenly people start hiring you to do that job. And that's kind of how it happened for me. You know, I'm a graphic designer by trade. That's what I went to school to be. And I love design. I love visual arts. I love. I love telling and solving problems within visual ways. I don't do any of that anymore, but that's what I started out doing. Yeah.

So let's think back to that. You're a designer by trade, right?

Yep.

But why in the world would you go from. I mean, you can get paid to do that anywhere, so why would you go from just getting paid to do that to starting your own company?

Yeah, my journey is a little different. Right. So I'll just share a little backstory so you can kind of follow where I came from. But first job out of school was for a family business that was a computer networking company, and they bought me in as a marketing manager. It was a really, it's a father and four sons kind of business. I quickly became that fifth son. And that owner, his name's Gary, put me under his wing and really was my mentor and still is today, actually, a big mentor for me. That was a great ride. I learned a ton about operating a business and running a business, things I didn't have skills in, because, again, I was a designer, not a business person.

Yeah.

And then that whole lovely dot com bust kind of happened. Right. Remember that?

Oh, yeah, definitely remember that.

Yep. And so when that happened, found myself, like many people, searching for something new. And that's when I ran into a corporate company where I had an opportunity to be a marketing web designer for a very large corporation. Talking big. Big company. Yeah.

Like a global corporation, right?

You got it. And so I thought, great, this is a great chance to get into the big company and learn that side of the business. And so I did. And, you know, that was a really, really interesting journey for me. Because I learned a lot about probably what I don't want in a business in the future. You know, it was very stifling for me. This. The way this corporation runs is very much like a military operation where chain of commands and, you know, you. You make sure you only talk to your reports and people that you know are within your sphere. And I'm an idea guy, you know that. And so that was. That was a tough change for me. So then I got a buddy that called me up and said, hey, I want to start a thing. He's out here in Phoenix, Arizona. I was living in Kansas City. That's where I grew up. And so, you know, my wife and I just got married. We didn't have any kids yet, believe it or not, no house, nothing. And so we decided to take a leap of faith and came out here to start a thing that was the journey. That's kind of where it started. And that particular part of it didn't last very long. I made a lot of mistakes and just things didn't go well for that first chapter. And I found myself back at home. I remember the date, it was May 2, 2003. Now sitting there on my couch going, okay, do I get another job and work for somebody else? Or I just keep this thing going that I've started. We got a few clients. I think I could do it right.

Yeah.

And so that's what we did. Yeah.

I tell you what, you've got some good pieces in there. You know, you talked about, took some faith. You know, you talked about a leap of faith. You talked about really discovering you're an idea guy. And so kind of a military sort of chain of command sort of environment wasn't working for you, but had that foundation of working for a family organization, family company, where it kind of got taken in. And so all those pieces, I think, lead up to the decision that you made on the couch that day to go, what am I going to do next? What's it going to look like? And I would imagine for a lot of entrepreneurs out there, a lot of people out there that have either started their own business or thinking about it, they're probably going through that same cycle. So what would you say if you thought back on that, what's of that decision to say, you know what? I'm going to start Rocket Media. I'm going to start this thing on my own. What would you say was one of the great lessons from your history prior to that that you took into starting your own business?

You know, for me, it was Building that client base. So really just relationships, you know, when you're starting out, you only know the circle, you know, and there's not a whole lot of. At least for me, I should just basically say for me, there wasn't a whole lot of depth to that circle.

Sure.

And so one of the first things I did, which is really how we met, was join the local chamber of commerce. And luckily here in Gilbert, where we are in Gilbert, Arizona, we've got a pretty strong chamber. And that got me kind of into the local sphere. So I think that's one of the most important things I learned was just make sure you get out there and network and let people know who you are.

Yeah, absolutely. So let me ask you this follow up question then. Why do you think other people start their own business? Like, what do you think is the reason why people do that?

I think it's a lot like I did, where you have a trade or craft that you're really good at and you find people wanting to hire you to do that. And maybe it starts off as just a one time job and they're like, hey, can you help me? And you're like, sure, I'll help you. And I do it for free, pretty much. Right. Next thing you know, someone else is calling and then you go, you know, I like doing this. Maybe I could just do this on my own. I got this like energy and drive and I'm proud of what I'm doing. Let me give that a shot. The risk, of course, is the stability and the know how of like how sustainable is this? Right.

It's almost like that E Myth thing, right?

Oh yeah.

Where you're great at something. And so you figure, I'm just gonna do that. And then you realize, wait, it takes a whole different mindset to own a business than it does to just do a business.

Yeah, yeah. And you know, we're looking back, I was, you know, didn't have a whole lot of anything, so there wasn't a lot of need to support a big family like I do today. And you know, the risk was a little bit lower. My wife was full time employed as well, so we had the insurance, we had the healthcare. So that was, that was a comfort there. But it quickly flipped. Right. So let's flip the side now. You got the shorts version, let's talk about the suits version. What did you, how did you start yours?

Yeah, well, I appreciate that. You know, this, this is fun just to kind of reflect a little bit and think back to those, those early days because for Me, it actually started in my childhood. My, my, my dad raised my brothers and I, for the most part, and he was, he was just a journeyman carpenter. And so, you know, the reality that we experienced was, you know, it was always job to job. As soon as one job finished up, the company would lay you off. You'd be looking for something different. You'd get on that job site, and as soon as that job was done, they'd lay you off. And so seeing that, knowing that I wanted to have a family someday, I thought, man, I don't want to be controlled by a company that tells me when they're going to need me and when they're not. And so I just thought, you know, I'm going to start my own business someday because then I can have the freedom and flexibility to be there for my family and kind of have control over whether I work or don't work. And that's really where the idea started, which is probably why I started as young as I did, because I was still in my final semester of college when I started Ray Hunts Financial, our first business. And quickly realizing that being in the financial business, if you will, for me was actually helping people realize that money's not the real thing that they want. And so it was also a way to have this greater meaning to what I get to do than just working for a company. And so for me, it was, it was a lot of. There was these, these real tight reasons as to why I wanted to own my own business versus work for a large corporation, which is why I never ended up on the path that you talked about of working for a large corporation. I'm not even sure what that experience is like.

Right, that's interesting. So, real quick question on the backside of that. Did you always know you wanted to be in the financial side? Like that's who went to school for and all that, or was there any. Where did that come from?

Yeah, it's great that you asked that too, because I didn't know, actually, when I, when I had those thoughts of wanting to own my own business or start my own business, I had no idea what it was going to be in. And I didn't even know what the financial world looked like at that time. I mean, I sometimes joke with people and say, you know, early on, probably one of my greatest assets was ignorance, you know, not really knowing what all I was getting into.

Well, you were in Iowa, so I.

Know I did grow up in Iowa.

In a small farming town and, and.

Moved out to Arizona because I didn't have much interest in farming or factory work anymore and didn't do well with cold winters. So why not move to where it's 100 the majority of the year flopping around?

That's right.

So, no, I didn't know that it was going to be the financial business. It really started out. I just wanted to make sure I started a company that had meaning. I wanted to make sure I started a company that could be significant in people's lives. And the more that I had some college classes around business and economics and I like following trends and patterns and history and seeing how it all plays out. And really for me, it was, as you mentioned earlier, relationships and seeing, okay, well, what are. What are some of those important areas in people's lives in realizing that there's, for most people, there's like this genuine interest in creating a certain lifestyle. And so I wanted to be. I wanted to create a business where we helped people create and live the lifestyle that they wanted. The money, the money aspect of the financial part of people's lives came later on when I thought, you know what? I think that's the way to do it. And I felt just driven in that direction.

Okay, so similar question that you had for me. How did you go from this mindset of idea to actual business? Because it sounds like you went right from school into it. So how did you kind of flip that? How did you stay away from the corporate world?

Yeah, well, you know, one of the things that you mentioned earlier is not as much risk when you're. That when you're young than right now. Both of us have families now both of us have kids, and there's lots of responsibility and. And you want to provide the best way that you can. And so. But early on, you know, I was single, no kids, could live on very little, and really relied on the relationships that I was building. Just starting to talk to people, get, you know, get involved in the community a little bit. And one of the things that later on ended up fueling kind of those. The early clients, if you will, was actually coaching sports, which I didn't expect at all. I mean, I coached sports, I coached basketball mostly because I loved it. And later on I started getting parents saying, hey, what is it you do again? And then all of a sudden, here we've got our first few clients.

Yeah, relationships definitely form that way, for sure.

Yeah. And that's what helped us establish our early values because I started thinking about, okay, well, what really did help us kind of create or help me create a business from scratch in an area where I didn't really know very many people. And it came down to three basic things that are still a part of our values today that we've expanded upon, but relationships, contribution, and gratitude.

Yeah, that's great. So I started mine out of my house.

Yeah.

You know, I remember that I was. We actually just had our first son at that time, too. So I was daddy daycare by day.

Mm.

Then business by night. Right. And, you know, that went for a little bit, probably a couple months, and we realized that wasn't cutting the mustard. Just didn't have enough revenue coming in for that. Ben needed to do something else. So then I. Then I took on a handyman's assistant job. So I was in the mornings driving to Scottsdale and I did a ton of handyman work. Tiling, painting, roofing. You name it, I did it. And I did that for a while and then was able to do the business at night, Right. Yeah, I did that for probably a good year and then was able to get to the point where I didn't have to do that and was able to just to focus on the business. So, you know, it's kind of. It taught me a lot, of course, that, you know, that even though you have a passion and desire, you still have responsibilities and you still have to do what's right and it's okay. I fought that. I remember those feelings driving to that handyman job, going, what am I doing? Yeah, this isn't what I want to be doing. Why am I doing this work when I should be doing that? But, you know, you have to do the hard work sometimes to be able to do the work you enjoy.

That's right. Well, and I'm glad you bring that up because, you know, I think. I think there's a lot of entrepreneurs out there. I think there's a lot of people that when they start their business, they don't even want to talk about. That aspect of it is like. I mean, even, you know, when I first started Ray Hans Financial, I was working as a valet at one of the five star resorts here in the Valley on nights and weekends. Almost flipped of, like, the schedule you just talked about, because I needed the daytime, like your regular business hours, because that's kind of the schedule that clients are used to in that business. And so at night and weekends. And I remember, man, I remember thinking, God, I hope one of our clients doesn't pull up to the drive, you know, because how embarrassing would that be if your financial advisor is getting out, you know, to greet you at your car and then go and park it. But I tell you what, man, it was actually one of the greatest things that I felt like I could do because you're out there running, you're serving people, you're getting to know a lot of different people. You're having quick conversations. You learn how to build rapport. Really, really quick. Within a few seconds, you're running, which gets your mind thinking. And so I literally had stacks of valet cards. I'm not going to name the resort because I don't want them to charge me for the number of valet cards that I wrote.

They'll find you. They'll find you.

Yeah, but I. Stacks of valet cards with notes on the back. Business notes, ideas. And that job served well for the early launch year or so of our first company.

Yeah, that's great. That's inspiring as well. So it sounds like we have a very similar beginnings to our business, which we both knew that, of course, getting into this, but where did we go? How do we get from the nap phase of the grunt work that we were doing, the work we had to do to muscle through it to the point where we're able to just focus on the business we have today?

Yeah. Well. And, you know, I think that. I think that's a great lead for our next episode. So we want all of you to come back, check it out. We're going to roll through kind of the journey of being a business owner, and that that gives us a great kind of topic to roll into next time around is how do you go from those starting days to really forming a company, really forming a business, building a team, and. And just man, all the mindset shifts that you go through, the ways that you work on your stuff, the mistakes you make, and then learning from all that along the way. So it's gonna be cool to dig into the journey.

Yeah, that'll be a lot of fun. So thanks, jw. This is a good conversation. Appreciate it.

Appreciate it. Ben, the shorts guy, the suit guy.

Thanks, everybody.

Thank you for listening to Shorts and Suits. Your hosts are Ben Kaultman of Rocket Media, a digital marketing agency, and J.W. rayhans of Rayhans Financial, a financial investment advisory firm. For more information, go to shortsandsuits.com if you find this podcast helpful, please help us by telling a friend and rating us on itunes. Subscribe to our tribe and learn more@shortsandsuits.com.