Katey McPherson

Guiding conversations with community leaders.

In this podcast, we'll explore the human journey of leaders, their stories of humility, triumph, roadblocks and lessons learned. Come join us as we journey together and uncover the questions you've always wanted to know. This podcast is brought to you by the Gilbert Chamber of Commerce, perhaps providing resources, connections and belonging for business professionals.

And Rocket Space, an event and meeting venue in the heart of the East Valley with a full service four person podcast studio. All right, Sarah, are you ready for this one?

I am so ready. So excited for this one.

Who do we have with us today?

This guest is a crusader who is affecting change in our community and in our homes each and every day. After 20 years in public education, a pivotal moment called her to take a leap of faith and focus on student and teacher social and emotional wellness and support. Today she is an international advocate and speaker on issues surrounding youth, mental health and currently serves as the director of professional development for Bark for Schools. Please welcome the unstoppable Katie McPherson.

Unstoppable. I like that. That's great. Katie, welcome.

Thank you so much.

We're so glad to have you here.

Yeah, I'm so glad to be here.

Wonderful, wonderful. Well, let's get started. What we call rapid fire. Okay. Star wars or Star Trek?

Ooh, Star Wars.

Favorite color? Black.

Winter or summer?

Winter.

What did your mom call you as a kid?

Joy.

What's your favorite holiday?

Thanksgiving.

What is the last book you read?

The last book I read was called Thrivers.

Would you ever go on vacation by yourself?

I do often.

So that would be a yes. Okay.

I mean, I don't know if it's a vacation. Work, travel. So a vacation by myself? Yes.

Camping or glamping?

Oh, my gosh. Glamping for sure. With a capital G. That's my answer too. Yeah.

So if you had, like, intro music, what would your song be?

Oh, my God. Eye of the tiger.

Eye of the tiger.

Yeah.

Excellent.

Yeah.

Glass. Half full or half empty?

Half full.

Nice.

I think that's the majority. Half full.

It is. It is.

Yeah.

I like that.

I don't know if people would own Half empty.

Aren't you half empty usually?

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Okay, here we go. All right, so there's lots to dive into here and lots to talk about today and some of it is a little bit heavier than other things. But I really want to start with when you did a little write up for us. You shared that you went to Michael Jackson's funeral and almost attacked by a 500 pound bear. And I'm assuming not at the same event, but maybe he has.

Thankfully not the same event. So one night after having twins, I couldn't sleep and it was like a fourth of July. We were in San Diego and like a. What do you call that big firework that goes off? M something.

An M8.

Yeah. So an M8 went off and I woke up and I couldn't sleep. So I got on CNN.com and was just like perusing the news and Michael Jackson had just died and across the top there was a banner ad like win tickets to his funeral. So I was like, okay. And I was a huge fan at the time. There was some information I didn't know about him at the time. So I entered and I won tickets. And so my girlfriend, Carly Stoltenberg and I went to his memorial service and it was like the absolute best concert I've ever been to because all of these famous people were there singing Jennifer Hudson and the Temptations. And it was just a very moving service with his family and it was just very interesting. It was fascinating people. I mean so many thousands of people in the streets. It was crazy. It was in la. Yeah, interesting. And then the bear. So last.

Not at the funeral.

So I have a beautiful best friend who owns several houses in Lake Tahoe, one on the lake. And so we were staying there and they were leaving for like their own vacation and they're like, oh, you could just, you know, stay and lock up, but you know, make sure you just like lock the doors because we've had some junior bears around like just at night. So it was the middle of the day, I was out on the deck working and I opened the sliding glass door and I went in to get something and I heard like a rustle behind me and I turned around and like literally this close to me was like a 500 pound bear on his hind legs. Inside, inside the living room. And my oldest daughter was upstairs. The rest of the kids were at camp and so I started screaming for her to come down the stairs, there's a bear, we gotta go. And she's like, oh no, I'm not coming down. And so I'm trying to manage a bear in Front of me and a teenager saying, no, I'm not getting out of the house. And so I finally just turned around and ran out the front door and started screaming, bear, bear, bear. And this super nice neighbor came over. He's like, he was very calm. He was like, I got it. It's okay. He had like an air horn and he just opened the kitchen door. And then the bear went into the lake and walked onto somebody else's property.

You know, that's not how it goes in the movies. You've seen the great outdoors, whole different situation.

Well, and everything you read is true. Like, I totally froze. And my first thought was like, oh, my God, you're so cute. I want to touch you.

Except for those teeth. Just keep those shut for a bit.

Seven months later, that same bear and two others had broken into 50 homes in the Tahoe Keys and just ruined their homes. And so his name is Hank the Tank. The. The daddy of the junior Bear. So then I called my friend. I was like, so you know the junior bear? She's like, oh, yeah, did he come around? I'm like, yeah, he was in your living room. She goes, oh, did you get like a pot and like a spoon out and just clang it? And I'm like, lisa, you didn't leave those instructions. A. I don't even know where your puppies. Yeah, yeah. So that was my bear.

Oh, my.

It was crazy.

That is crazy.

Yeah.

That's a memory that'll last a lifetime for sure.

Yes.

Yes.

Well, let's go back to the beginning, your roots, where you started and how you got into what you do. And let's talk about that a little bit. Your family.

Yeah, Tell us the story, Leah. Both of my parents are educators. My dad is a lifelong attorney, prosecutor person, but also taught law in Michigan. And my mom is like a lifelong educator. She's almost 79 and she's still teaching. She taught French for 40 years. And so just teaching just came to me. I became a Spanish teacher.

Okay.

Moved from Michigan to Arizona for a Spanish teaching job, stayed in teaching for a while, and then moved into guidance counseling and then moved into school administration and spent about 14 years as administrator.

Yeah. And you talked about a pivotal moment that really made you see the need for mental and emotional health for educators.

Yeah. I was an administrator in the Gilbert school district and like most of my day job was fighting social media and I had students, like, being preyed upon by predators. They were trading drugs and alcohol on Snapchat and a lot of self harm and suicidal stuff. Was coming up, and then a neighboring school district had a boy bring a gun to school and die by suicide. And the news reached out to me because I had been doing like, these side workshops for parents on social media impact. And they said, you know, what are we missing? And so of course, they went straight to his Twitter account, which is where he was asking for help. And it was all right there. And I'm like, I gotta do something. Like, I love being part of a school campus. I miss it greatly. But I felt like I had an opportunity to make a larger reach. So I left. Which was like a huge leap of faith for educators. Typically don't do that kind of thing.

And you left, but what did you do?

So I left and I just went on the road on my own and together with a few people. Dr. Michael Gurion was my first couple years. He's a pretty famous author. He's written 25 books about boys. And so I spent the first two years speaking with him and for him about boys and how we treat our boys in our schools and our homes and how wildly misunderstood they are. I have no brothers and no sons. I have four daughters and five sisters. So that was really fascinating for me. And just thinking back on my school career, like, most of the kids in my office were boys for disciplinary reasons. And so I just got a huge perspective on that. And then after a couple years, just went out on my own, co facilitated with Colin Kirchner for a while, which was really fun. And so here I am.

And I know, you know, we want to dig into your journey, but I am interested because I've heard you share it before, if you will share some of those statistics about boys and some of the things that you. You learned along the way.

Yeah, I mean, just looking at referrals to the front office, like in Pre kindergarten, kindergarten, five to one over girls. Most of our substance abuse referrals, boys. 78% of our D's and F's are going to boys. School attendance, mostly boys dropping out. Suicide rates not only for young males, but adult males and elderly males, four to one over girls completion. So, you know, not that all genders aren't, you know, struggling or suffering, but specifically, when we look at that, the stats are pretty startling. Yeah.

And I think at one point you had shared too, just where do boys belong these days? Right. Like, we have a lot of programming and support for girls growing up, but maybe not the same opportunities now for boys. So.

Yeah, and I think I spoke at Gilbert Chamber, what, three years ago at least. And you Know, those resources are climbing. But if you Google, like, help for men versus help for women, it's just super plentiful for women and girls and not so much for boys and men.

Yeah, we do really, really important work for our community. How do you keep it light at home and let go of it?

Well, or do you?

Yeah, sometimes I don't. Which is super interesting that you bring that up, because the other day my middle daughter was like, okay, can we not talk about youth mental health for a while? And so it was good for me. I, you know, self care wise. I run every morning with our dog, Bradley Cooper. He's famous. We have two dogs. Bruno's famous too, but Bradley Cooper is well known. So running is an outlet for me to keep it light. But the girls, I have four teenage daughters. 13, 13, 15, 16. So everything is laughter and humor or crying. So there's like, some extremes there. There's some extremes there, but a lot of laughter. So they bring me a lot of joy. And so we have a really good time together.

Yeah, absolutely.

I get the teaching side. I can relate. I had two parents that were teachers as well. But the psychology part, therapy side, where'd that come from? How'd you get into that? Was there someone that guided you that way?

Just really, like, I think I'm wired as an empath. It's like a blessing and a curse. Like, I just always want to help. And I think maybe it's. My parents divorced when I was 11 and remarried. My dad remarried pretty quickly and then my mom a few years later. And so just that transition, you know, I think some people would say that was trauma. And so I think some of my own trauma response is like, that feeling of, like, I didn't feel completely in control in middle school. And so I have such, like, a deep heart for kids that are like, middle school. What do I do about this? What do I, you know, it was just such a brutal transition. Middle and high school and so much more so now with the amplification of social media. So I think I just was always drawn to. To watching both my parents be helpers and my stepmother, too, and my stepfather.

Okay, so obviously you're in this path of going into that process education wise. Where'd you get all your background? Where'd you learn all this stuff?

I went to Michigan State University, home of the Spartans.

Both my parents went there, too.

They did. Oh, my gosh. Yeah. 80,000 students at that time, which was huge. Right. And then I actually did a small stint at Xavier University in Cincinnati. I Did my student teaching there, which was amazing. I taught at a magnet school for inner city kids, but they were required to speak only Spanish. So it was a Spanish speaking magnet school, which was fascinating. And then I got. We were skiing in Telluride, and I opened the newspaper, which doesn't exist anymore. I know, but. And there was like this huge full page, like, teacher job fair, all the western states. And I was like, I'm gonna go. And at the time, my boyfriend was like, what? And I was like, yeah, I'm gonna go. And so I went and I got like 50 job offers because nobody speaks Spanish. And so traveled to Colorado, Arizona, California and Nevada and interviewed and just had a few friends from Michigan State who had gotten a job here with Motorola. And the three of us came out here and I never looked back. I was like, palm trees, sun, no snow, no sleet.

Check, check.

Gray days. Yeah. And so I'm here and I've been here ever.

And your family's still back east then?

Yeah, they have since migrated south. So parents are in North Carolina and Florida and sisters are kind of all over Michigan, Ohio, North Carolina.

Yeah.

That's awesome.

Well, good places to visit and then come back home. Yes. That's awesome.

Yeah, it's been fun.

You mentioned a couple people on the path that you were talking about when you got into the speaking. Talk to us a little bit about that. How'd that come about? And I assume perhaps those people you mentioned were mentors of sorts for you. Yes.

Yeah. Totally accidental. I went to a conference with Rosalind Wiseman, who wrote the Mean Girls script for the movie. And she also wrote Queen Bees and Wannabes and Masterminds in Wingman. So I was going to see her, but Dr. Gurion was like, the other keynote, and he started talking about boys and, like, showing stats. And I'm like, this is what I'm living as, an administrator, and this is how I'm treating boys. And, like, I felt so guilty. So I just approached him and said, like, how do I learn more? And he said, well, we have a train the trainer, but I'm actually looking for an executive director position. Is opening up soon, so, you know, if you're interested. And I was like, oh, yeah, that'd be great. So I became a trainer first, which was weird because even though I'm a teacher, the thought of public speaking terrified me. And I remember, like, the first couple times, for sure, I was nervous. I still get a little nervous sometimes, but more so because my friends are in the audience. But Yeah, I mean, Dr. Gurion, for sure, was a mentor. And then recently, you know, just locally, have some mentors here in town. Dr. Aaron Krasnow, he's the associate vice president at ASU over health and counseling. He's been a great mentor. Michael Klinkner, who's here in town, evolve counseling, just, you know, really linking up with true clinicians, because I'm not. I have a guidance counseling certificate, but I'm not like, an LPC or lcsw. And so those people have definitely been helpful on my journey, too.

Awesome. Yeah.

So one of your mantras or words of wisdom that you shared with us that I think is pretty profound, is easy on people, hard on ideas. Holy cow. That's exactly what we should be living by these days. And it seems that we're quite extreme on that. How do you try to live that?

So I've been pretty fired up lately about some things. One, being in Chandler Unified, we've lost, unfortunately, lost five students to suicide in the last three months. And so that's a heartstring project for me, and it has been for the last five years of the contagion we've been in. And so I have to remind myself off of that, because I want to go after, you know, like, what can we do about this? And, like, pound on pavement and doors and people and, you know, and so just kind of checking yourself, like, okay, what about this idea can be strategized and executed? And what about, who are the people that have the power to execute this idea? And so I learned that from Rosalind Weissman. That's her mantra. And I think just watching, like, our school board meetings, social media in my neighborhood, it is. It is something that if we could all embrace, I think we'd be better off for it.

Yeah. All right. Maybe you have the magic. What is it? What is one thing that we could do to get. Derek and I were just talking about this. How do we get to. Back to focusing on getting it right instead of being right? How do we get there, and how do we encourage our kids? Because I guess for me, as a parent, one of the things I'm struggling with right now is that the adults in my children's world aren't behaving properly. So, you know, to some extent, how can we hold our kids to different standards? And why can't we do better?

I think it really, unfortunately needs to come from city officials, school officials, government. Like, we've lost our sense of dignity. And dignity is another word that I learned from Rosalind, and it means inherent worth. And it Means that you're worthy, I'm worthy. And we can be fiercely debating a topic, a contract, a position, but you still have inherent worth, and so do I. And so teaching our kids to not attack the personhood, but talk about what is it that's bothering you, and then reminding adults, courteously, politely, because sometimes adults think kids are being defiant, when kids are trying to use their dignity and their voice to move forward, that this is what bothers me. This isn't an attack on you. I'm not attacking who you are. But I am. I want to be more curious about your point of view on this. And I think that's what I've seen, that's what I'm currently struggling with, with leadership across the board, is why are you not more curious about this? And so encouraging kids. Stay curious. Stay curious. It's okay to ask questions and be told no and to go to another person and ask that same question.

Yeah. That's awesome. Ben, are you listening? You've got nine kids practicing.

I've got a lot of practice doing this. Absolutely. Absolutely. I'm curious where your next chapter is going to take you in this process then. I mean, as you're reflecting on this with us, what's next?

Oh, my gosh. That's a good question. So I just calculated my state pension.

Okay.

No, So I got, like, a notice that I can, like, quote, retire and, like, three years, which is so crazy. I can't retire with, like, my whole. Because I need to put, like, seven more years in to get, like, the whole shebang.

Sure.

But, you know, I'm sitting on this teen ad hoc mental health committee that Rusty Bowers put together for me. And so I don't have aspirations of doing anything in the government, but I'd like to work with the government to improve life for our kids. So I don't know what that means. Like, people ask me all the time, like, you should run for school board or you should, you know, run. I'm like, no, are you kidding me right now? Especially in the space we're in right now. There's no way. I just. I would get too frustrated and I'd probably be hard on people. And dignity would be hard to hold.

You're saying yes.

Yeah.

And that's hard to do. If you are wired as an empath, that's a really hard place to put yourself.

Yeah. So I'm not really sure I want to continue speaking. People ask me all the time, like, when are you going to write a funny book? Because my kids are really Funny. And I post about them all the time, so maybe something along those. I do enjoy writing, so maybe something along those lines. But right now we're really focused on, like, what does the next five years look like after the twins maybe leave for college? Like, will we stay in Arizona or where will we go? I'm encouraging the girls to go near Ocean for college. Wink, wink, wink, wink, so that we can come and visit. So I don't know. It's a really good question. I don't have a great answer, except for just continuing to advocate for our families, like, not just kids, but our moms. Like, being a mom is really hard and exhausting. And so I'd love to start some sort of, like, mom movement, you know, because I feel like I've learned a few things. And I joke around on my Facebook page about, like, who wants to start a middle school support club? And I, like, 75 people said yes.

So maybe that maybe there's a thing there.

Yeah, maybe.

So as close as you are to the technology side and social media and things, where do you see that going? Like, what do you think's the next wave? Not necessarily, like, hot thing, but culturally.

Culturally, I see people like Tristan Harris and the center for Humane Technology and Common Sense Media and my colleague in Michigan, Chris McKenna, with Protect Young Eyes, really rallying for more regulations and more structure so that we can use technology as the tool that it is and see the light side of it. And I think these kids are genius. And they are also doing things like the Bereal app is getting traction. It's like, be more real, stop the filters. So I do think these children are going to lead us in the right direction. I don't think the yuck is going to stop, but I'm hoping that some of my colleagues, with this legislation for regulations, maybe we can get some of that in place.

Yeah, that's good. Any advice for any parents out there listening that you might have for them with their kids as you've kind of gone through this a little bit, I know that's a hit. That's a loaded question.

No, I get it every day. A lot of people ask, when should I give a phone? When should I give social media? What if I don't give any social media? Are my kids gonna be excluded? I think all of those depend on the child. I would say stave off social media as long as possible. And it's okay to tell a coach or a school, like, yep, you're gonna have to text us instead of using Snapchat for soccer because we're not gonna allow Snapchat. I think we have to get more brave and say no. And as moms band together and say no, because typically, it's like a bunch of moms are like, we're not gonna allow it till eighth grade. And then one mom is like, well, we have to give him a phone because we're in a divorced household, so he needs a phone. And then access comes, and then the other friend's like, well, I want it. And then that mom's like, well, Brody is a good kid, so I'm sure you can handle it too. Like, we have to get more brave. So I think that would be my recommendation, is be brave, Be courageous. Hold your ground. Put golden guardrails around your family. Because the tech industry does not care.

They do not. After something else. It's in your pocket.

Yeah.

Right.

Yeah.

Do you have house rules for your house with that?

Yeah. We have a central charging station, so all devices go on that at night in the off position. We have a really good router that tells me how many phones we have on the network. Sometimes kids have burner phones, which is fun track down. But also when other children are on our network, I can see who's doing what. And then just constant conversations. I mean, things just keep popping up. I feel like the pace of it continues to accelerate, and my girls are pretty open book. I mean, they tell me a lot, and sometimes things I don't need to know. So I think that ongoing conversation about, like, hey, I heard about the Bereal app. You know, as you're driving, and not this, like, kitchen lecture. I think the conversations are great. And then lastly, Bark put out a really great documentary in conjunction with some producers called childhood 2.0. I think every parent, every educator, every administrator, everybody should watch Childhood 2.0. It's free on YouTube.

Excellent.

We do really important work. Sometimes it's hard to hear, but it's necessary. And so I really appreciate that you continue to push forward, have hard conversations. I don't know. Sometimes I feel like, don't make eye contact with her because I'm not a perfect parent. But it's actually all really important to know, and our kids are counting on us to have the right information and do the right thing by them. And you're a major champion for that. So thank you.

Well, thank you. It's an honor to be part of their world. I just adore them. They are so funny. I love them.

Yeah.

That's awesome. Well, thanks for being here, and thank you for being on this show with us today. If you like this show as I know you probably do, we do join our tribe, listen to all the upcoming podcasts we have and thanks for being with us guiding conversations with community leaders.

Ben, let me ask you a question. How do you see other community members being involved in this podcast?

This is going to be a great opportunity for so many people in the community to have a chance to be heard if they want to tell their story or if they just want to be part of this journey with us and help sponsor it in a way that helps bring more people to the table with us. So I think there's many opportunities at hand whether you want to again be on the show. Reach out to us. Let us know what your story is and how you think you could be part of it. We'd love to hear from you. Reach out, let us know and we'll see if we can make that connection.