Rob Duggan

Guiding conversations with community leaders.

In this podcast, we'll explore the human journey of leaders, their stories of humility, triumph, roadblocks and lessons learned. Come join us as we journey together and uncover the questions you've always wanted to know. This podcast is brought to you by the Gilbert Chamber of Commerce, perhaps providing resources, connections and belonging for business professionals.

And Rocket Space, an event and meeting venue in the heart of the East Valley with a full service four person podcast studio. Guiding growth time. And we've got another amazing guest with us today, Sarah. Who are we talking to today? Want to fill us in?

Our guest Today is a 23 year veteran of the Gilbert Fire and Rescue Department and has served in public service for more than 30 years. He grew up in Moon Valley, attended Thunderbird High School, is a graduate of University of Arizona and recently received a Master's in Public Administration from Park University. He and his wife Sally moved to Gilbert in 2002 where they raised their daughter. He now serves as our assistant Fire Chief. Welcome, Rob Duggan.

Yeah, thank you. Glad to be here. Thank you for having me.

This is awesome. Rob, you and I have had a little experience together with Gilbert leadership. So it's been fun to get to know you there and I'm really glad you're here today.

Class 25, it was. It was a good time. We had great people in that class, so that was a lot of fun and growth during that period.

Showed them what it's supposed to be like, didn't we?

That's right.

Oh, boy. We are going to kick things off today with a little session that we.

Call Rapid Fire Round. Okay, Sarah, I'll let you go first.

Okay, here we go. Would you rather sing in public or dance in public?

Oh, dear. Neither of those is good. I'll have to go with dance in public.

Okay, Rob, what is one of your nicknames?

Robbie. Anyone that knows me from grammar school, refer to me as Robbie. Everyone else, Rob. And my wife finds that hilarious.

Would your 12 year old self think you were cool?

Hmm, I think so.

Have you ever won a contest?

No.

Not even like a cakewalk or anything?

I take it back. I did win first place in the Cub Scout pack for the little cars that run down the little racetrack. Pinewood Derbywood Derby.

Congratulations.

My first year won first place. That's right.

That is a big step.

You reminded me of that. Thank you.

Would you ever skydive?

No.

What is your favorite breakfast?

Black coffee. Not the healthiest, but black coffee. Yeah.

What is one thing you wish you enjoyed more?

I respect people that have Like a musical talent that are just naturally good at things like that. I don't have a creative bone in my body for that. So I respect anyone that has that kind of creativity and passion and ability.

Are you more of an introvert or extrovert?

Probably the extrovert.

Do you have a favorite book?

Favorite book is the Go Giver. It's one of leadership books, actually. J.W. rayhan actually gave me that for one of his strategic classes where he does at Strength Finders. And that was one that kind of resonated with me. So I think Go Giver, as far as leadership books wins the wins the bet.

And you read it?

I did actually read it. Well, it came to me, so I thought, you know, maybe I should read this thing.

It's an omen. Okay, last question. Glass half full or half empty?

Oh, full. Positive mental attitude, optimistic vision of the future is the second most powerful force in the fire department universe.

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All right, so we have to go back because we asked you if you've won any contests and you referenced one. But I have an amazing true fact about you. That you won the Bosch and Lom Outstanding Science Student of the Year at Thunderbird High School.

That is true. It's also representative of one of the secrets of my life and that I was a nerd in high school. This is a very true statement.

I have a hard time believing that. However, if you're self proclaimed, so be it.

Yeah. National Honor Society, the whole bit. Yeah, I will admit, terrified of girls at every turn. Couldn't talk to them in high school. Yeah, that was me.

What was the high school mascot back then?

It was the Chiefs. It's been rebranded the Titans in the last couple years.

Okay. All right, so let's go. Start at the beginning.

We want to know about the beginnings of your education and your family and how you kind of got started down the path you're on today.

I meant start at the beginning of the science fair contest. But that's okay. We'll start at the very beginning.

Let's go. Well, I think you mentioned in the intro and I've done a lot of retrospection over the last little bit about kind of what put my career together, my life together, and growing up in Moon Valley, I think in Phoenix had a lot to do with my upbringing and I had a Fantastic upbringing back then. It was every summers we spent. It was your bike. Once you got your bike, that was the freedom. And we just rode our bikes 10 hours a day, all day. Parents had no idea where we were, what we were doing. And we come back before dinner and that was kind of. We had a. Back then in Moon Valley, which used to be north Phoenix. We had the desert area just a couple blocks north of us and then the Moon Valley golf course just south. Advantage of that, we'd ride our bikes in the desert for hours on end. I don't know how we survived in the summer. So we didn't drink any water and then we'd go to the golf course. We had a little fun at the. We call them the greenies expense. They were the groundskeepers because they had green little vehicles, we could always outrun them. So we had a little bit of fun at their expense. And anytime we really got into a trouble, it was always retreat to the desert or get to the golf course because we knew we could always get away at that point. So. But it was all good growing up kind of kid stuff. But I. We grew up throwing dirt clouds at each other, shooting each other with BB guns. I think Frank Caparelli still has a BB lodge on his chin, by the way. Nobody lost an eye, thankfully. But riding our bikes, playing in the desert, shooting bottle rockets, which of course we can't do that now, that would be wrong. But back then, you know, back then it wasn't against the rules, but just a lot of fun doing stuff like that. One of the kind of the edges thing we did back then was we would ride our bikes to Metro Center. If anyone remembers what that used to be. I don't think it exists anymore. That was about six miles crossing an interstate. But we were, you know, junior high riding our bikes. Why not? Let's go again. Parents, no idea about it.

But interstate then. Wasn't like interstate.

Yeah, you know, we just had to cross under Cactus Road or Peoria. But my guess, my point of that looking back was we were incredibly independent. We had a spirit of adventure. And that was when I think back of my high school upbringing, with your friends on your bike, that's all you needed. And you just found a way to entertain yourself and have fun. And we didn't have Google to say what happens if you. So we would do if and find out. And you know, sometimes somebody got hurt as a result of that. Usually Brian Loffman, one of my friends growing up, it always seemed like he was the one that would Sprain an ankle or do something.

But I got visions of sandlot children running around.

You know what? Yes. And that really is kind of that image. But it was just once you got your bike and I was excited because I had a not cool bike. This little Schwinn banana seat.

Just about sensing a trend here.

Just about poor guy telling you nerd. Growing up and we weren't rich by any means. We grew up in Moon Valley and some of the neighbor, you know, over the neighborhoods thought we were the rich kids. I found out which we weren't. We were pretty much regular middle class thing. But I finally got to buy a cool bike in high school. There was the red line back in the day. That was the bike but it had a price tag. And then there was the Huffy that looked just like it next to it. I got the Huffy and when I got it home, the first thing I did was peel every Huffy sticker off that thing.

Oh my gosh.

And of course I bought the Redline stickers and rebranded it as a red.

Line that have pegs.

Did not. And nobody knew the difference.

I was going to say did anyone ever figure you out?

Nope.

It is interesting you say, you know, Google couldn't tell you what could happen back then because I do think we live in a little bit of a different world now where we're so fear based. And back then I agree. Like we just had a different sense about freedom and taking risks and having fun and such a different world.

Now it is and I really embrace and enjoy. I think that had a lot to do with my upbringing. Is really time to move. Alec early on, as you said, kind of in the beginning.

And you're the youngest of three.

Yep. My oldest sister Stephanie. And then my brother is a middle child and he is everything you would expect out of a middle child. Always getting in. He used to get grounded all the time. He famously got grounded for opening or leaving the jar off the peanut butter. We all knew that's not the reason he got grounded. It was everything he said and did after that point with. With my mom. Because those two would always. He'd always just manage a way to irritate mom. They get in an argument but he.

Argues it to this day, I'm sure.

Yes. And my grandmother would say that my brother spent his entire childhood sitting in his room on his BE because he was always getting in trouble for something. So. And of course I was a baby, so I had it better than anybody.

Oh yeah.

I probably did. Quite honestly. Mom and dad retired they already lived through it all. Yeah. Now, my sister's no saint. She used to party in the bogs. Back then that was a thing out in the desert boondocking. And I don't think she told mom and dad about that. She said she was.

Well, they're know now.

Well, I think we finally had like a big reveal.

Okay.

At a gathering. And my father was just mortified. Like, what? What? Because he was always. He would stay up late every night till we got home.

Oh, no.

He would hide though. He would. He admitted later, he would stay up late because we all worked and our family work. We worked in the restaurant. So I always got home working at Tommy Tomasso's in Phoenix. And then he would tell us later that he would wait, he would read, and then when he heard the car coming, he would run into bed and lay there. So he didn't know that he stayed up for it, which is pretty funny to hear.

He thought he was on top of it.

Yeah. Well, the whole time their first born responsible daughter was not working McDonald's, she was out partying in the desert. Mm.

So, yeah, you were easy for him. Talk to me about Cord's ambulance.

That is forever ago and not many people know that exists. I actually had a lunch with Jim Hayden and he does know what exists. And I kind of had parallel lives back in the day. He was a little ahead of me in this industry private ambulance company down in Tucson. I got an interest from my roommate and I decided to take an EMT class because he was. He wanted to go to medical school and he did. And we said, hey, let's do this. So we did. And then I thought, well, this is kind of fun. And I thought, maybe I can get a part time gig. And so I got cords hired me private ambulance firm 100 years ago back in Tucson. And it was. I mean, it was a bare bones private job, no benefits, not a lot of pay, but the schedule worked well for going to college. And so I started working for them. And that's kind of where my career started as an EMT and kind of public service. So working for them and gave me a tremendous appreciation, you know, for how hard that work is in that arena and how much appreciation I have now in the public sector working for municipalities and what we have and the resources.

Yeah, technology and everything is so different. So I. Probably quite an eye opener for you too at that time, huh?

It was a lot. It really was. And just kind of coming into the industry, coming into a municipal job where you had benefits and you had retirement, and that just wasn't the way it was in the private sector back then.

Yeah. What. What about it spoke to you? What. What kept you. Your interest and kept you in that field?

A challenge. I think I've looked back at my career, and I've defined my growth by embracing the next challenge. I'm not the person that said, I'm gonna go be a fire chief or even a firefighter. I stumbled into the career and that I started working as an emt. I enjoyed the job. I enjoyed the challenge. You know, tones go off, you go to the call. You drop everything you're doing, and you don't quite know what you're gonna see when you walk into somebody's house. And there's just amazing things that people open their doors to you. They let you in. They didn't have a time, didn't have a chance to clean up. They didn't have a chance to do anything. You just come in and you fix their problem. We fix their problem. You help fix their problem. You start the process to fix the problem. And I think that challenge really kind of defined most of my career as far as starting off in the private ambulance, which then enabled me to work as a volunteer at Rincon Valley, which is a little, tiny fire district east of Tucson. And Karen Hollywood said, hey, I need a medic here. I'm the only medic. So that opened up opportunity for me. And my next challenge. I went to paramedic school, actually in Bisbee or actually in Douglas, south of there. So I would travel two hours, stay down there, and go to paramedic school, which got me my first job. Karen Hollywood hired me, so I got to work there for a couple years, and then I was working three different jobs trying to keep up. The pay wasn't great, and that opportunities at Casa Grande. They hired me as a firefighter, paramedic. Did that for about three and a half years, which then got me to Gilbert. And I just kind of kept pursuing the next challenge, I think. And that really spoke to me, coming up with Gilbert and everything I did along the way. And that really drove me through my career was finding that next challenge to not be complacent with where I was at and constantly push that.

You mentioned your buddy, and he's kind of. You guys said, let's try it. The cords thing, was that one of your influencers in your life that kind of helped guide you in that particular area, or did somebody else kind of get you introduced to this field?

I guess, yeah. I got to give Dave credit. I probably wouldn't have taken the EMT course had he not had that desire to do that. So I hadn't really thought those terms. He was my college roommate through about three years, but yes, I guess he should get credit for that. And then we did the class together and he ended up going to do school. He's a very successful doctor now, when we finished up school. So I'd have to say he had a lot to do with kind of just first opportunity to start this career, buddy.

So he's probably still around in your life, I imagine so. Still influencing you in ways there or now. It's just all.

It's crazy. I've had probably four kind of fire department mentors along the way that have really kind of driven and helped my career through that sort of. Those are very distinct points as far as through my career and some of those influences that have helped.

Who was your first mentor then?

Larry Boland was my captain back in Casa Grande. And Larry, great individual. He was kind of near the end of his career. I was still young. I was 25 when Casagrand hired me. Most everything I needed to learn about being a captain came from Larry. And I didn't know it at the time. And the interesting thing about Larry was he had a way for doing everything. And I was at that point that I was interested. I said, well, why? He had a way. He mopped the floors. We had a way. We did everything. And it drove most people nuts because why do we have to do this? Larry's way? What I found out was he had a reason for everything. So I would ask him, hey, why do we do it this way or why do you want it done that way? He had a reason for everything, which helped me kind of process my own way of going through things. But as far as looking out for employees, making sure employees were safe, I learned a lot really from him. And then kind of coming up to Gilbert, Chief DeWitt Fire Chief at the time, I kind of came up and started being involved in some of the labor management processes in our local and really learned a lot about how those processes look and kind of use some interest based approach to problem solving, how to look at issues from multiple perspectives, and learned a lot through those processes. Chief Jobusch has given me and Bob Bodgett, the other assistant chief, amazing opportunities to let us just do our jobs and give us kind of freewheeling opportunities to make some mistakes, but also guide when we need to guide. So I really give him a lot of credit for just being Able to just do the job with not a lot of strings, just general direction. And that really taught me a lot about kind of letting go some of those responsibilities.

What's it like? Going from one area to the next is like an application process you go through.

Like, hey, I want to go to.

Gilbert, or what brought you to Gilbert? I guess from Casa Grande.

Totally separate application processes. I was down in Casa Grande and it was the wild, wild west back then. We had two engines, three people. I was the only medic. And we had to be good at what we did. We had to find creative ways to overcome the challenges. Wasn't always the safest. We only have two companies. You just had to find a way. And we had a population about 30,000 back then, so we were busy. But there was aspects of the culture that I thought weren't right for me long term. And back then Gilbert had a reserve department and one of the firefighters, Ernie McGaughey, actually was a reserve in Gilbert. So I kind of got introduced to this opportunity to work as a reserve and kind of see something different up here in the valley. So I started as a reserve for a short period of time and then the opportunity, I got lucky. Within about nine, 10 months of starting as a reserve, we opened up 12 additional positions. And at the time we knew we were going to have 12 full time positions. There were 13 reserves.

Oh no.

And I'm like, those are good odds. I might not be the first, but I know I'm not going to be the 13th. So was fortunate enough back then in 99 to come on full time as a firefighter and haven't come back since. Just came on at an unbelievable time. Gilbert to me was a land of opportunity. Came on at the right time, right when the growth was happening and was positioned well to be take advantage of some of those opportunities.

So take us back to those, those first days in 1999. What, what did Gilbert fire department look like, what did it feel like and how has it changed over the course of time?

That's a fantastic question. In 99, we were opening our fourth station, Station 4. Then our group came on to bring back up to four person staffing. Initially when they started, they were three person staffing. And we knew as part of the automatic aid agreement, we had to have four people per truck. So my group brought all four trucks up to four person staffing. We were young and we didn't have old firefighters. When I came from Casa Grande, we had old firefighters and they were amazing. That's the other thing Larry taught Me was how to retire as a firefighter. I should have brought that up before, but in Casa Grande, it was embedded that you will learn how to retire as a firefighter. Day one, we didn't have that in Gilbert. We were still figuring it out. But, you know, at that point, it was, I want to say freewheeling, but it was just young. It was advantageous, adventurous, and we kind of had this. We're kind of figuring things out as we went along. We had a few guiding features in there, which at that point was a Chief Rambo, Chief Garcilaso, which was the first fire chief, but in Chief Jobish as an instrumental figure. But that's the way I put it. We were figuring it out.

Yeah.

And it was. But it was a lot of fun because, like I said, we're building. We knew we had opportunities ahead of us as the city was growing, and everyone kind of saw that and felt that and knew that we had to be. Hey, we had to be. Got engaged. We got to get ready for this. Because we knew the opportunities that were ahead of us and challenges to grow.

Do you think that that culture has been retained? Do you think it's grown upon itself? I mean, where do you think you are today?

Right now, the. We're at the point now where that initial kind of group is retiring out now. So we've seen a lot of that. That turnover, and I guess I'm probably part of that. I came kind of in the. We started in 93, so when I came on, we had a few years under our belt. So I started in 95 in Casa Grande. So it's kind of how everything lines up. But I think we're seeing now is the level of talent and education and drive is just different because the people we're hiring now all have higher levels of education. They're very motivated to get on the job. They're looking for to be a part of this cause and this great thing. So we're kind of learning kind of how to harness that new energy. I remember early on, when we go to training, we'd train with, say, Tempe Fire Department probably my first five, six years. And we go to this training, we look at the Tempe trucks. Oh, my goodness. These crew is old. Look at this group. They can barely get off the truck. And we were young and looking around. And then I remember at one point, I was captain on a truck. I looked over Tempe crew, and I go, they're babies. Look how young they are. And I went, oh, no. What are they thinking, I'm the old guy. And I went, when did this happen? I just. It was like, it was overnight. So it's amazing how fast that career goes by you. And if you just don't stop and capture the moments and realize the amazing things you see and the amazing people you work with, all of a sudden, overnight you're like, wait a minute, I'm gonna lose this. And when you leave a fire department, particularly when you leave from shift work, you lose a family. And it is difficult. One of the difficult transition for our firefighters when they retire from work, particularly in shift work, is they realize that they were on a truck this day and they've been working with people, they've been living in the same station, they've been cooking together, growing together, kids together. And then you retire and you almost lose that family. It's a very difficult thing if we try to prepare our group for that transition. Because it's difficult.

Well, and to that extent, I'm curious because I just, I see the whole career being difficult and yet I feel like every firefighter I've met, especially within Gilbert, is so humble and gracious and just very connected to the significance of the bigger picture. And I'm curious, how do people who serve in such a critical function keep that sane, center and refocus and reprioritize? And is there systems in place to make sure that they have check ins with mental health? What does that look like?

We've come a long way in our ability on our employee wellness divisions. It was something things that have been created over the last few years. Chief Jobish initial vision to create the division. We expanded upon that quite a bit recently and that we did. One of the kind of transformational things was a research project that was accomplished by two of our firefighters. And part of that was to identify what can we do to support the mental health cancer reduction in the workforce. Looking at things like peer support, whether it's fitness issues, but also emotional support processes through there. And we've come a long way in having some additional support legislation that helps support us to be able to do that. And a lot of it is, you know, you try to maintain that positive mental attitude. That's an incredible deterrent to some of the yuck out there. And have fun. Being on a fire truck is fun. It should be fun. There are hard days, no doubt about it, and the job is hard, but it's also amazing. Driving in a fire truck is a lot of fun. And we've got, I believe, probably the best brand in the country. When you think of a fire department brand, what does it mean to the community? When you see, I'm going to say, red fire truck driving down the street, that means something to people. And so we've got this great brand, and the people behind it are great. And we need to make sure. And one of the advantages we have over, say, law enforcement, this is a huge advantage, is we have the dinner table, which, by the way, is the fourth most powerful force in the fire department universe. You've got two out of five now. Now, it can be used for good, and sometimes not so good because there's been some absolutely terrible financial advice preached around the kitchen tables. Hey, whose new truck is that? Where'd you get the wheels? No, no, don't. But also what it does is because we gather at a couple times around that kitchen table. If people are struggling from a call or all of a sudden, we're like, ben is not himself. He's kind of being a jerk. Now, we have to recognize that your home life impacts your work life.

It goes with you.

So at least you've got a few more people that can say, Ben's not quite right. Maybe I should talk to Gary or Jody and see if maybe they can reach out to find out what's going on, and hopefully you'll come forward and we identify these things. We've gotten much, much better at grabbing our employees that are struggling and getting them earlier in the process so that the effect isn't quite as profound. So we've come a long way with that.

Yeah.

So it's exciting to see.

That's what I was going to ask you about, because now you're at the position, the career spot that you're in now. You're mentoring a lot more people. I mean, that's just part of the job now.

Right?

So when you think about that, what kind of advice are you giving? And are you. Are you leaning on those four gentlemen you just mentioned that were mentors for you? And is that kind of just carrying the torch through or what's that like now?

Currency. One of my beliefs, they call it feed the meter for me, which is find people's currency. Once you find it, feed it. And sometimes you can work with people a long time and really not know what their currency is. And sometimes people themselves don't know. And I think a lot of times, first you got to find the currency. What are they good at? What do they value in themselves and their work? And once you have that, it's tremendous. You just feed it. So I think first of all you identify that. But part of what we're trying to do is also find out what they're good at, what are their strengths, and then try to put them in position to maximize those strengths. We have some employees that are very passionate about apparatus builds or equipment, and to try to give them the conduit to be able to do that is important. But we also have a lot of processes and templates of things to help people learn how to transition, to think critically about, get a part of a research project. Because our group isn't really trained in writing and research, so we've developed templates to help them so they can be part of a research group and learn and kind of apply some critical thinking opportunities. But really trying to put people in the right position to motivate them to want to do more and kind of respond to that challenge others. We have a ton of great employees that are like, I'm a firefighter on a truck. I'm really good at it. That's what I want to do. And that's fantastic because probably part of their currency, those are some of our best mentors, actually, because they've been in that position a long time. They carry an incredible amount of influence and respect. So a lot of time you see that and you realize their currency is probably mentoring and helping others along the way and make sure they have those opportunities.

That makes sense. I like that.

What makes you hopeful about the next generation of firefighters?

Oh, this. They're smart. They're smart. They come ready to work. They have an incredible ability to learn, and they love being part of a cause. And we have the perfect cause and we have a great cause for giving, to do that. And they're learning. And one of the like this, we're working right now. We did a staffing study because like every other department across the country, we struggle a little bit to staff trucks. And we really leaned on our amazing employees to work more and work more overtime. And there's a toll for that. But one of the things we're finding is our newer employees aren't signing up for as much overtime. And it confounded us at first. And when we really look at it, it's a generational thing. And I'll say that in that my generation of firefighters, we wanted things. We wanted the house, we wanted the pool, we wanted the backyard. You got to get the truck. If you get the truck, you got to lift it. And if you lift it, you got to put the tires on. And maybe you want the travel trailer or goodness sake, toy hauler that's fantastic. Now we need toys. Yeah. So we worked for those things. We worked overtime for those things. New generation. And then the other thing we did, new generation comes along. We tell them, hey, you need. You need to be smarter. We're doing all kinds of things for cancer prevention because my generation of firefighters are dying from cancer and suicide, from PTSD and from exposures to toxic particulates in our job. So we're improving our turnouts, we're improving how we clean everything. We're improving everything. So now this new generation comes on, they believe in, oftentimes more often into a cause. They want to be part of something greater than themselves. But they're also looking at these firefighters going, okay. All they talk about is cancer, PTSD prevention. And if I continue to work more and more and more, it's all the more exposure. Our generation, new generation wants to work. They don't want to work too much because they're learning. They're looking at us and seeing this generation made some mistakes that I don't want to make. And one of the ways I can do that is avoid additional exposure to traumatic calls and exposure to cancer. Our group of firefighters learned the ones before us all died of heart attacks after they retired because of smoking, and they didn't maintain fitness. So we learned how to do that and fix that. So I think that's where I'm excited about the new generation is they are willing to work. They come ready to work, and they're really exceptional at learning more because we used to hold all the cards. Right. We held all the information. Yeah, forget it. Go on Google. Right? You can get all this. So they're just so much more adept at learning.

But I see all those traits in you. I still see. I mean, you are incredible, incredibly hard working and serve causes that are bigger than yourself. And I know even with your role in the town, but you also are invested in the community. You're a resident.

Easy as heads gonna blow up. Come on.

You went through Gilbert leadership. You invest in so many other ways. And I just. I'm sure that there's something in you that drives that, because this community is something more to you than just a job.

It is. And I've thought about a lot this recently as well. And I feel like fundamentally I believe in this town, the people and the fire department, and it's just. I feel driven again. But next challenge for me is to continue to give in ways I haven't before and just to continue all the work from the previous fire chiefs in the Organization in whatever capacity to make sure that we have kind of the, the next version of particularly Gilbert Fire and Rescue. Because we've, we've grown so fast that a lot of the focus was we got to hire the people, we got to get them ready for promotions, we got to get this stuff. We need fire stations, you know, we need this equipment, we get the fire truck schedule, we got to get this amazing world class training facility. But we're a little short of some things right now. It's the people, programs and processes. And that's where I feel that, that all of my experiences landed me at this point where we're at, we've done amazing things and we're right on the precipice of more. And I feel that's part of this fundamental belief I think is really what's driving me right now to continue to say, hey, we are really close to more amazing things. To kind of finish up the legacy of the first three fire chiefs and really focus on the people, the programs and process. Because we have most of the stuff we need, A couple things we need, but for the most part we have the stuff we need.

You've done a few good things in your career. A few.

Thank you.

But one of them that I think that I got to be witness of was the training facility. And you really help spearhead that. There's a lot of people involved. I know, but you kind of took the charge on that. From my view. How does that make you feel now that you see it and you're there and you're seeing it, do what you knew it could do? Like, you really helped dream that up.

I appreciate that. And of course there were a lot of people on the team of that, like I call it the Legacy project. And for all of us that were a part of it, we kind of figured out that this was going to be a big complex thing. And we figured out along the way, hey, this is something special. And for all of us that were a part of it, you knew that this was going to be a lasting legacy, that everyone was from our project managers, construction and design. And I was really heavily invested in particular on the design before the pre design, working towards funding for the business plan. And that was an amazing thing to be a part of the career lessons learned during that time frame. Leah Reinheimer, one of my absolute best professional mentors along the way, helped me kind of navigate those waters and learn how to kind of work at that level. And I'm deeply indebted to her in everything that I learned from her, just don't let her know that. I think she already knows.

She actually is one of my favorites too.

And Chief Jobus, we got, can't forget that he took this legacy project, handed it to me and said, hey, this is yours. The man has no ego. I couldn't have done that. But he gave that, at least from the fire department side, for me to lead that. And what's happening out there is exceeding all expectations. And what I mean by that is you see it, you have an idea, and okay, we were successful and the voters were incredibly generous in allowing us to do that. And then Chief going back to where Banjer had led us on the plan, and then obviously everything worked forward in council support of the bond. And then we started designing and then he saw it come out of the ground like, yes, this looks like how we were going to do this. And now you watch the training captains and lieutenants and like they're doing stuff we didn't even imagine. So it's like we thought, yes, we knew it was going to do this. We know it's good for training police officers and firefighters and running academies, but it's doing amazing stuff. If you go out there right now, we have a conference out there that's doing just leading edge stuff. Almost 200 firefighters out there right now that are practicing new, innovative techniques for delivering water to fires. There's a 50 person police academy going on right now is just buzzing. But one of my new currencies, my primary currency is value added relationships. This newest currency I found is we have an opportunity to utilize that facility to influence a nation. Now, a lot of people laugh at me when I say that, come on, Gilbert, you're not going to be able to do that. But when people come out there, there's interest. You bring innovations out there and suddenly there's a lot of interest. Because the brick and mortar and the way we've created that and the people we have has a lot of interest. We have a federal law enforcement group coming from D.C. next month to be trained by one of Gilbert's SWAT medics. So we think about that. Wait a minute. Because we did a class and then one of our SWAT medics has a bit of a specialty called first five minutes in training. They love that so much that they reach back out to the federal agency. They're coming back, so we're already starting. But the other thing that we really want to do out there, that's true. It's just mind blowing. I never really thought of this is particularly with public safety, is we're reaching out to different industries. Like, hey, we have this new innovative, whatever it is, whether it's a drone, we're working on emerging drone programs or fire apparatus or police apparatus, or an industry that's related even in the military as far as testing guidance systems. There's an interest out there and we're realizing we can actually, if we leverage this right, truly be a center of innovation for industries related to public safety. And it's happening.

That's cool.

And we've been open to year, so we're kind of victims of our success because there's so much interest out there and it's really an amazing place to be. And hopefully we continue to be a part of that, to just continue to find these innovations. And really the way I look at it, as we have the opportunity to be part of kind of that bleeding edge development of innovations so that we're first in line when the leading edge is ready to come out. We're not only that, but we're a part of developing the next lead. It's like as soon as you get that one, you're like, okay, well what's next? Yeah, right. And so that puts us in a great position. But to do it smart, it makes sense because everything we do, we have to be able to look at our crews and say, this is how it's going to make your job better and safer. We can't forget that. It has to get tied back to our crews and people in the field, police officer and firefighters, saying, we're not just doing this to get a shiny thing, we're doing this because it's going to make it safer and make you better job.

I just wish you had a little bit of passion about your job.

This one sneaks up on me. Those two things. Yeah, they do sneak up on me. So it's, it's a lot of fun out there.

And what we're doing, doing incredible things.

It is fun. It's a lot of fun. Again, I love having fun at work. Had fun on a fire truck. So it's just what we keep doing out there.

What's next?

What's next? Well, for the fire department wise, we've got our transportation that's been going about nine months now. So we're going to continue to cement that in and it's been a fantastic success. And we talk about some of the innovations we've been doing. That's certainly one of them. We have an expanding again, drone and robotics program that we're just kind of starting off. But again, we'll kind of get in with the industry and be a part of that process and help again bring that in again directly ties back to what we're doing out there. Challenges that lay ahead of us. We've got opportunities to really look at our build out call volume and get the last few pieces we need and strategically apply those resources, whether it's alternative response vehicles that are a little different than the traditional engines and ladders. So that's certainly beyond the forefront. But I think what we're really looking at is we got this last eight, nine years towards build out to get the right people need to build out some of our people. We still need more positions, but we'll do that in a strategic way. Make sure with all the business plans and timelines for that. So that'll be the next eight years or so as we get to 2030. I wish you guys could see I have an issue with post it notes which by the way is the third most powerful force in the universe. I got three out of five right now. We're doing good, but really it's just my version of the vision that shows all the positions we'll have it build out. Now a lot of work's to going still needs to go about justifying that. But people programs and processes where we need to get but all the way kind of innovating and having opportunities to deliver our resources effectively and get more and more safe as we go and continue to support employee wellness.

Okay, all right.

I'm going to ask the question in one more way. What's next for Rob?

Well, Chief Jobish is retiring on July 7th and I've made fairly public over the last couple years now that I was going to offer up to compete for that position. So I am currently in process of preparing for that opportunity and kind of going out talking to people much like yourselves and kind of looking forward to that. It's going to be an amazing process. It will be. You're going to see a fantastic group of professionals interviewing and testing for that position. When you look at Gilbert, we're a destination department, you know, as far as you look at our accomplishments. And I want to make sure that we continue to be a destination department where our employees, they feel valued, they feel listened to and they have an opportunity to thrive and business comes to innovate and you look at all the success I looked at the pamphlet they put out was a nationwide search. I'm like, this place is amazing. There's gonna be a thousand people applying. But really it's just kind of Being a part of that process and for a fire chief position, it's, you know, we'll have a nice competitive process and the town will make a great choice for a fire chief. And whichever way it goes, it'll be an awesome opportunity. My wife and I, Sally, we've been blessed, had amazing opportunities for my time on and whatever the way. Whichever way it goes is just kind of finishing off the last years of my career. Again, I'm driven by that challenge, which is part of the reason why I threw my hat in the ring to compete against that. And there's going to be a ton of amazing talent coming in to compete for that spot.

Well, selfishly, I hope they choose you.

I appreciate that.

So, Rob, last question for me. Let's go back to rob. At 25 years old, what would you tell yourself that you wish you had known then?

Oh, thank you for asking this for me. I've done a lot of soul searching with this and I believe everyone has a God given right to evolve. I don't believe tigers don't change their stripes. I think everyone has an opportunity to do that. And looking back, easy answer is let your ego go. Too much of my career, admittedly, I was driven by trying to prove I was better, faster, smarter. And unfortunately through the years coming up, particularly with Ed Gilbert, there's some relationships that suffered because of that and probably suffer today. So that's the one thing I would say to myself, is get your ego in check quicker. Jack Glover is kind of my fourth mentor. That really helped me with that. He's one of our firefighters, been around a long time and looking back is that's the one thing I would like to do is go back and go, hey, let your ego go sooner and not be so worried about trying to prove better, faster, smarter.

I think you can apply that to almost everybody.

Yeah, absolutely.

Maybe. Certainly in my journey, that's accurate. So that's probably what I would tell myself.

I need to know what number four is.

Number four, thank you for asking. Is the kitchen table at the fire station. I think we had four. We need one and five. Right? Okay, we got two, three and four. Number one, I'm gonna go with.

I'm gonna trust you over Ben's count, so you go for it.

Right. I might have got him out of order. Who knows? The fifth one. I'll start with the fifth one. It's not the sexiest one, but it's about project plans and templates and flowcharts. I say that because we have complex issues. We have to deal with and in order to engage our employees. Sometimes it's challenging to say, hey, here's this big research project. It's overwhelming. It's the elephant. But if we can take that and use our templates and our project plans, it does it in a way that is bite sized and that allows our employees that don't have training or experience to engage in it and then be part of a solution where they can apply some critical thinking skills.

Okay. 4 was kitchen table.

4 was kitchen table. Good or evil? Bad financial advice.

3.

3 was post it notes. Post it notes. Because I don't care what problem it is. You give me the right people with the right questions and enough post it.

Notes, we can figure it out.

We can solve anything. Build a rocket.

Hey, I like that.

Two was positive mental attitude, optimistic vision of the future. Number one, I cannot claim responsibility for compounding interest. I think that's Einstein. But back to those old firefighters. They grabbed us youngsters. And I am forever indebted to the old firefighters at Casa Grande, the Larry Bolans out there, Bob Littles, that said, hey kid, this is how you retire. You put money aside, do it now. And they kind of set up a plan. So for our. Not that money's everything, but we try to teach our young firefighters, if you allow financial pressure to lay upon you at a young age, buying the truck for a $750 payment for five years, you can't get out from underneath that pressure and be smart. Don't have that pressure on a marriage, pressure on anything. It results to bad decisions downstream. Because you go to bed with that stress. You wake up with that stress. You never get away from it. Those are the five.

I think we got all five and we documented them. That's great.

There you go.

Rob, thank you for being here today.

My pleasure. This was a lot of fun. You guys made this a great time. Yeah.

Great stories. Thanks for being here.

You're welcome.

So if you like this show, and I know you do, subscribe to our tribe, join our crew. You'll get these right into your inbox. You can hear all these great shows and more. Thanks for being here, Rob.

Thank you.

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