Andrew Poje -Ice Dance Olympian

This is episode 107 of the Empowered Athlete podcast. All right, let's go. It's time for another athlete interview, and we are absolutely stoked to bring you a king of the ice. It's ice dancer Andrew Pouge on the show today, and this interview is awesome. We cover it all. Life with COVID you know, his career, multiple world medals, two time Olympian, baking bread, putting grains of rice into a big bowl. What does it all mean? Andrew explains it all to us. We go into his career, talk about the serendipitous first skate with his partner Caitlin Weaver, and all kinds of other amazing events. You don't want to miss this episode. Let's get to the interview with Andrew Pogget.

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Everyone, welcome to the Empower Athlete podcast. We're thrilled that Andrew Poget could squeeze.

Us into his incredibly hectic schedule. There's talk of TV shows, there's talk of all kinds of things going on. Andrew, how are you doing? How are you dealing with COVID and what's life like for you right now?

Well, first of all, let me just say thank you for having me on. It's definitely an honor to be a part of something that is creating a healthy environment for the world, especially in these problematic times. Yeah, it's been. It's been a nice change of pace, but also an intense one because I tried to pick up little tidbits here and there throughout the isolation time, and it's all compiled into now having a little bit of a crazy environment around me, but I thrive in that, so it's. It's been enjoyable.

So do you mean that you had a fair bit of downtime because a lot of things were just canceled on you and now it's. Everybody's playing catch up. Is that what's happening?

Correct. So when everything kind of spiked and everything got shut down, I was in the midst of actually flying out for the world Championships in Montreal that was scheduled, and from there, I was supposed to be on the road for the next three to four months doing shows and traveling around the world, which I'm blessed to be able to do that. But unfortunately, because of the pandemic, had to halt all those arrangements, and Ben was completely home. So definitely a change of mental focus. It was anxiety because I didn't know really what I would do with that downtime but as is my personality and kind of what I've built the resilience through my athletic career, I kind of just turn that focus and made it into a positive thing and, and just look my focus elsewhere and try to fill up that time with internal growth and just trying to just learn and grow as best as I could. So coming out of the. The downturn, I could kind of come out a better version of myself.

So what you're describing is something that I would always try to gear an athlete if they had an injury to start to emphasize because it would be one of the only times they'd be able to work on all these other areas that they wouldn't ordinarily be able to focus on. So it kind of sounds like you did that. What was the worst part of that downturn like when you, when you discovered. What was that like for you when you discovered that?

Yeah, there. I mean it, Right, Exactly. It's. It was definitely an emotional experience. And I think the thing that affected me the most, and I didn't realize until. Until I wasn't allowed to be at the rink to skate, was how much I used that form of movement as a therapeutic outlet. You know, there was like that. That mental anxiety that built up my brain and just being able to go out on a normal day and skate and move and just be able to express, because I sometimes don't articulate vocally or through writing or anything like that, it was through movement. So to not be able to be on the ice in my. My. My canvas and be able to. To let my emotions out was a hard thing. So those built up. But luckily I kind of used my, my mindset that I had as an athlete getting injured or dealing with those adversities and tried to find different ways of. Of being creative or at least getting that. That emotions out instead of suppressing it and let it build up and create something that would turn into like a darkness inside.

Did you know that about yourself, Prior? Like, did you know that about yourself that if you were removed from your physical expression for that long, did you know pre Covid that it would be that much of a buildup for you and that was such an outlet for you?

No, no, no, I didn't. I didn't know that I relied that much as, As a way to create that, like, barometer of. Of when I was good and bad. I didn't realize, like, how I internalized that as much. You know, it's. I've always tried to do some like, journaling or tried to talk to people. And it just didn't feel as authentic to. To my. My brand, myself. And I realize now that's because the thing that gave me the most grounding was being able to just use that form of just movement. Because I know that movement creates positivity and creates the ability to really get in touch with your internal emotions and.

Such self expression as well. Along with what researchers now say are. That exercise is. Some are saying is the top way to avoid depression or to recover from depression. Exercise, which a depressed person is the last thing they usually want to do, but it's the best thing for them at the same time now.

Right.

Go ahead.

Sorry. I was gonna say, like, during my. When I was still skating and I was going through stressful times, getting ready for competitions or in. In just heated moments in my life, I. Even on those off days, I had to go out and still do something athletic. And I thought it was just because I didn't like to sit down, but I realized now it's just because I needed to have that movement. Need to have some sort of. No matter what it was, whether it was going for a walk, going for a marathon, like bike, you know, it's just like whatever it was, I just needed to get my. My body moving.

Yeah. Yeah. Did you.

Did you find yourself gravitating to things during the. This pandemic that you may have just left alone since you were younger? I know that when I, Before I got involved with the national team playing volleyball, you know, I was doing every sport available. Pick up basketball, doing whatever, soccer, you know. And the more I got serious about volleyball, the less I could do those things I still enjoyed. And it's only now in retirement that, you know, I can start dabbling in some of those things again. Did you find that some of those things service for you?

Yeah.

Childhood loves that you might have put on the back.

I kind of went to, like, gravitate towards all the things, you know, I wanted to see what. What I really learn to love again. I played a lot, a lot of tennis. I just was determined that I'm gonna be, you know, on the tennis tour by next year. That's. I was just like, this is it. It's fine. It's pandemic proof. Let's just go. So I started learning to play tennis and luckily one of my best friends. Fiance is a professional tennis player. So she. She gave me a couple pointers. But, you know, I just kept on going and going at that and also exploring a lot of my creative side that I hadn't in a while. I'm a foodie, so I love cooking. So it was exploring a ton of different cooking techniques or cuisines, or just challenging myself in the kitchen in that sense. But also, yeah, making bread. I made bread. I stopped making bread early though, because I realized that fresh bread is really good and eating the whole loaf in one day is very, very easy. This is normal. Like I need to stay away from this, but also exploring my creativity and like music. So I. I've always wanted to learn to play guitar. I picked that up for a couple weeks and then it just. It wasn't vibing with me. And then I looked at different outlets. And another one of my close friends is a musician. He plays piano, but also is dabbling a little bit with electronic music. And I started asking him questions and started downloading some programs and started just playing around and just seeing what I can make. So, you know, nothing obviously was like Grammy award winning things, but it was still fun to learn a new skill and kind of create that. I feel like I'm creating something from scratch like I would with a skating program. You know, it's from just an idea to actual fruition in an entire program.

So I'm dying to. You know, usually we start an interview kind of going back into how you got into your sport and all those things, but you keep kind of opening the door on things that I'm really curious about, one of which is that, you know, if you're creating something from scratch, are you involved in closely with the choreography?

It's. It's dependent on each athlete, each skater. As in early in my career, it was all basically just given to me. You know, I was just told, this is where you're skating to. This is what you're going to do and sell it as you, as you developing. Exactly as you developing your career. Especially because I had such a long career, we developed, you know, you realize what you feel internally and becomes more about being authentic to the story. The story is essential to be able to make it not only believable, but enjoyable to train every single day, day in, day out, because there is a monotony to training to one song for an entire year. You listen, you wake up. No matter if you're happy, you're sad, you have to be in that moment. You have to like create that. That emotion constantly. So you have to be able to believe it. So it became more of a conversation between like Caitlin and I, my partner and then our choreographer. So we would have discussion as to what do we really want to Say, and then the choreographer would be. Basically, he would guide us along the way. So we would come up with the ideas and try to move around, and he's like, yes, no, yes, no. And then kind of bring it together and became like a little bit more of a puzzle piece. So that's kind of where it is developed nowadays.

Nice. That's good. That's good to have that extra input. Can you take us back and, you know, kind of give us the snapshot of the young version of you? How did figure skating come into your world? It's, you know, you're Canadian guy. There's rinks everywhere. It's either hockey or figure skating for most. For many, many young, young Canadian kids. So what. What was your introduction to this? And, you know, were you in other sports first? What was it like for you?

So I have an older sister, and she was at the skating rink learning to skate. And so I was spending all the time kind of alongside her, just watching her and getting into trouble because I was just bored as a young kid. So my parents were like, okay, we're gonna put you in skating, so you need to get on the ice. And I was like, yeah, I want to get on the ice. I want to be the next Wayne Gretzky. I was like, I'm ready for this. So I was pumped, got on the ice. And luckily, my first coach that I had was also a power skating coach for a couple NHL people. And she had told me, you know, the best NHL players are figure skating based. You know, they. Because the figure skaters have that ability to understand edges and a little bit more of their feet, and then that's important to have a young age as your base, and then you can build your stick handling skills and all that as you grow. So my parents, like, totally bought into that. Let's do it. So they put me in figure skating, and at the same time, my first dance coach was creating a little experiment. He wanted to put a little girl and boy together from a very young age and just put them together and just see how they would grow together and see what would come from that. And it was a fun little experiment that luckily I got to be a part of. And I. I'm thankful every day that. That he was there at that time. And I was on board right away because all the. The boys that were in figure skating were in that dance program together. So it was like, all my friends are there. Like, I feel like, like, normal. I have all my buddies there. So it's fun. Like, this would be fun. And I was there, and then I started to gain success and got to travel, which was fun. And through the years, it changed from, like, the excitement of having those friendships and then realizing, like, how much I actually loved how unique the sport is because it dances that balance of art, artistry, and athleticism together. You know, there's no other sport that's in the Olympics that you have to do something extremely difficult. That's like a very challenging strength move.

Physical. Yeah.

While smiling. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. You have to just be like. You have to moat your heart while you're still, like, struggling through a program.

Yeah.

So that's, you know, and there's no other sport like that. And it was such a unique balance for me. Now, I also was in 10 other sports growing up, but I played soccer quite a bit. And I. There was a point where I was on the provincial team and traveling with skating, and my parents were just like, we can't do all of this, so you have to either choose one or the other. And. And I don't know if it was just subconscious or not, but I felt bad stopping figure skating because I had one partner. So if I stopped, it would disappoint her. Whereas if I stopped soccer, there's like, 20 other kids. They wouldn't remember. It's fine. So I was like, okay, I'm going to soccer. So that's kind of how I led into that. But what age was that? Well, I started skating around 6, 7 years old, and then just kind of grew and grew through that. I stopped playing soccer around about 15, 16.

Yeah. And really, for many sports, that's about the age to specialize. You know, when parents are trying to have their kids specialize at 8 years old, it's just. It's ridiculous.

Yeah, yeah. No, for me, I'm a believer in multi sport when you're at a young age because of the body awareness, and there's just. I can tell the difference in my competitors or the people that did different sports growing up, just the way they learn, the way they develop, because they have a different awareness, a different set of skills. No, I did gymnastics, so I at least understand how it feels to go upside down once in a while and things like that. Whereas some of my other friends that never did anything like that. Yeah, exactly. They don't. They don't understand how it works.

Yeah, well, amongst other things, Kari is an incredible strength coach, and so I gotta ask on her behalf, when did you perhaps start to get in the gym and work on actual strength? And when did you connect that that was going to be an important part of your performance that you could hold angles, lifts.

It's funny, throughout my career, my strength, the way that like I work out has changed immensely over, over the, in my years and now I don't know if it's just my, my knowledge or just the information that's out there. Luckily, I was at a rink that was solely focused on figure skating. Like there was no boards around. So it was just like it was a figure skating rink and also had a gym attached to it. And the head of the gym was in communications with the figure skating club at the same time. So there was back and forth movement and they would always.

Was that around then or. Pardon, was that Rim Park?

No, this is right before Rim Park. But the same kind of idea was built from that. So it started at, it was called Rink in the park, which was started by Carolyn Fady. And then when Rim park was built, we all moved over there. So then now it's the Carolyn Fady Skating Club is at Rim Park. So it's the same kind of established mentality that's there. And so they had a lot of like young level figure skating workout classes. And so we kind of developed that and it was more, it was more traditional style like aerobics and kind of not really specialized strength moves or anything like that. And through my years I kind of developed a little bit more knowledge and now I, I focus on things that I know people when I go to the gym, look at me very weird because it's just like I don't do, I don't, I don't remember last time I did a bench press. I don't remember last time I did certain moments like because it's not useful, it's not functional. I don't need to have an eight pack. That's useless. Like, I would rather like, you know, I want to have functional muscles. So it's, for me, it's not about, like for figure skating, it's about being long and lean and I can't be bulky up top because then it makes my sport harder. So it's more about having the strength but being lean on top so I don't have to carry the extra weight. And it's about being off balance when I'm holding weight. Because if I'm lifting my partner, I'm throwing around me. So I need to, it's not just up and down. Has to be like movements that are off center, off axis.

Yeah. And you, you can't afford at all even to be fighting your own restrictions. If you've got, you know, a tight pec minor because you've been pressing too much and you can't, you know, you can't move your shoulder properly because it's restricted and, you know. Yeah, yeah. So take us into, you know, you've started to specialize into figure skating. Are you with the same. You're with the same partner because you chose it partially because of her. And then as you go forward, what kind of brought you into kind of the next level instead of. Because usually around that age for, you know, many sports, especially sports like figure skating, gymnastics, swimming, that's the age that someone's either at a provincial level or they're just starting to break into a higher level. So what kind of brought you to your next level?

Well, there was definitely a turning point. So I was with my first partner for about 10 years, which was quite a substantial time for a young partnership. And then she decided that she wanted to further education. That's kind of where she wanted to put her focus. And she lost a love for the sport. And at that moment, I knew internally I wasn't done. So I continued to search around, found a partner that only lasted for two short years, but it instilled that I still wanted to be in the sport and I still had that passion for it. And now things didn't work out. And I was like, at that point, at a crossroads, because this is also at the same point I was entering my first year of university, and so it was like a pivotal moment. I thought, okay, this is probably it. Maybe I'm done skating. But there was still a voice in the back of my head and was like, no, you have unfinished business. You still like, I was still motivated because I knew I was capable of more than what I left out there. And I was like, my athletic career is not going to stop here because I don't want to have the what ifs in my brain. So luckily, I found my partner in Caitlin and we joined up and kind of had immediate success and just kind of grew and grew and grew there. And it was just that internal motivation and the support of my family and kind of them championing me on the entire way, that kind of breeded that success. And it was at that moment that I realized I couldn't do this 50%. I couldn't. I couldn't just be kind of an athlete, a student working at a job and all this other stuff. I had to be fully into it because I wanted to have that success. I was like, okay, I need to dive in it completely. And so we had to move away. And that's kind of when it became not a sacrifice, because I don't think whatever I did in my sport was a sacrifice ever. It was a conscious decision. And I think that's. A lot of people think like, oh, the sacrifices you made. But I don't look at them as sacrifices because I knew was for the greater good of my career.

Was moving away Detroit.

So, yeah, so the. Well, we moved from Waterloo is where I'm born and raised originally. I moved to Toronto for a year, and then from Toronto to Detroit, and then was in Detroit for seven years.

And something that jumped to mind when you're explaining that process for me is little backstory. My dad is British. He went a sabbatical year that we lived in England, and Torville and Dean were the bomb. This is back in 1984, so. You can explain their pedigree, but they're.

The greatest of all time. Pretty much. Yeah. They've. They've still to this day are integral to the sport because they've changed it. Yeah.

So I grew up. I would have been in, what, grade? Four or five back then, seeing them. And being in England, you get to see all the extra stuff, all the extra coverage and some of the training. And just the way you described how you clicked so quickly and had success so quickly with Caitlin. How did that happen? From my limited knowledge of what they went through, to be so sync, that is the synchronicity of the pair, you know, the way that you just know each other so well to be that next level. Next level. How did you guys hit that so quickly?

I think, you know, it was unique, and I think it was kind of that, like, serendipitous moment of, like, to pass aligning at the perfect time. Because we were from very different worlds, and so we had different techniques, but somehow when you're trying to find a partner, you go through, like, a little bit of a tryout. Like, you date for a little bit before you decide that you're going to commit to the partnership. So, you know, it's like we came together and we had a little tryout session and for a couple days and just kind of stroked around. And my coach was like, well, let's give it a try. Let's see what happens. We weren't really sure, and we did one stroking pattern, and he said. He looked at me and he was like, this is it. Like, you don't need to do anything else. And I was like, no, it's fine. Like, well, keep on walking around Keep on walking around And I wasn't, to be honest, I wasn't convinced right away, but Katelyn and I went to lunch the second day together, and it was just us. We sat down and we both asked each other, like, okay, what. What do you want? Like, what is. What is this for you? And realizing that we both were so motivated in a very similar pathway, a similar goal, but also that we still had a love for the sport and mutual respect for each other, I think from the very beginning created that, that seed that really grew our partnership from the beginning. You know, we were aligned on so many different facets, but those pillars were, like, perfect for that, to allow it to grow. And I think we just fell into a lucky situation. And we, we use that and then we're unlucky throughout our career, but we use those as teaching moments instead of just letting it get to us because we had that. That stable base there.

Had you both finished university or left university for your career?

No, no. So we actually, we started together. I was full time in university that first semester, and then I was like, enough is enough, went online, and that's when we kind of moved to Toronto and I started everything online. And it became a challenge because I. I could hear my. I could hear my grandma in the back of my mind, like, make sure you get your education. Make sure you get your education. And I still believe that it's. It's a valuable thing to have a different outlet, a different way to train your mind, because being so solely focused on one thing can create a bit of identity crisis, you know, And I think to a fault, I still, I went through that at points in my career because I had stepped away from school at one point. But in that early pit, that early part, I did try to continue my university education and luckily got through the first three years of my education, slowly but got through it and all online and then finally realized that I wasn't fully happy with who I was as a student because I wasn't there. All my focus, my energy was on skating, so I was like, okay, well, I'm not actually learning anything. I'm not actually getting anything from this education. So that's always going to be there. My sport isn't going to be there forever. So I want to live this moment right now. And I just recently went back to school, finished my undergraduate, now I'm in a master's program. So it's like I'm. It's there, so it's like I'm back in again. So it's fine, but. Yeah.

Nice, nice, nice. So what was one of the more challenging moments that you had to work through in stepping yourself up through your career?

I think. I mean, there was. There was. Our career was very up and down throughout. Throughout the entire journey. And there's a lot of moments where Kayla and I thought, we're just gonna call it quits. Like, we're good. Like, this is fine. But then something always brought us back. We slept on it, woke up the next morning, looked at each other, and we're like, no, we're not done. We're ready. Let's just. This is. There's gonna be a silver lining to all these things, and we're gonna push forward. One of those big teaching moments for us was at Canadian Nationals, which is the Olympic qualifier for the games. So this is Canadian nationals in 2010, before the Vancouver Games. So the thought, the dream that I had as a kid to be able to go to the games, go to the games in your home country, and to literally be in a position where I was like, this could happen. Like, I was right there, and I was like, wow, this is amazing. Like, so that was like. That was the image. That was the image. I was like, we're going to train for this. And got through the short program. There was only two spots to qualify for those games, so we were in second place after the short program, then went out for the free program and skated safe. Skated to. To just do what we need to do, but held onto it. Just skated like we were going to lose something. Not skating for something. We skating to lose something. And lo and behold, we missed the qualifying spot by 0.2, which is like a hair. Like, it's nothing in the grand scheme of things. So. And that was. That was a hard pill to swallow because that dream was shattered in an instant.

Did you know it right away that you played it safe? Did you finish? When.

When did you. Sitting here? I would say yes, but no. I think. I think my ego was like, no, it wasn't me. It was the judges. It was this person. I was like, I was wrong. But looking back at it, yes, I knew I played it safe. And I think it was just my ego trying to protect me from. From realizing that. And there. So there was another competition that was a week later that the. The B team gets to go to. So it's not the Olympic team. It's the spots that just barely didn't make it. And a lot of people are either too distraught to go to the game to those that competition or they go just because. Why not? And Kayla and I were struggling entire week after to train to get ready for this thing. But we decided we're going because we're going to show them that we're not done. We're not backing down. We're here to stay, and we are competitors who you really. So we went there. Yeah. And we just wanted to give it all, and we wanted to show them who you are as. As people, not as just athletes. So we went and we won. And it was. It was not only a great learning moment for others to see who we are, but more so for ourselves to see how much we could be pushed back and we could still thrive forward. But it didn't necessarily mean that we learned to not skate safe. We still did have competitions after that where we did skate safe. And I had a conversation with my coach at the time after we were at a national team camp, and we went out and fell three times. And it was just like, what happened? And my coach, Pasquale, was like, you didn't show up. You were trying to skate safe. You're trying to pull it back. Like, why don't you just let it free? There's literally nothing to lose because you just need to go out there and show them what you have. And if you give everything and you still lose, that's fine. But if you hold back and then still lose, you'll live with those what ifs. You'll live with those, like, regrets forever. And he's like, just go out there and skate free and just feel the way that you do in practice, where you feel that freedom. And it was a hard conversation to have, but from that moment, I kind of had that shift in focus.

Could you give me an example of how you'd hold back? What element or what component of your skate?

This is coming from a man who does not know how to hold back.

No, but I do. I mean, there's times where you're in the service box and it's you and it's pressure and have the confidence to go and rip the serve or play safe and basically hand the other team a side out, you know?

Right.

And it's. And in the volleyball perspective, you got to flirt with that risk, reward, play on that line. Does that line fall for you in escape? And how do you hit it with your partner?

Yeah, that's. That's. The hard part is finding. My psychologists talk about the arousal level. It's finding that perfect arousal level for you. So on a scale to 110, some athletes thrive in a 2 to 3. And some people thrive in a 8 to 9. And it's understanding where I do, where I thrive individually. But then it's also where Caitlin thrives individually and then respecting each other. So if she loves to be at a 9 to 10, then she'll be in her corner getting pumped up, listen to all the jam, just rocking and rolling, and I'll be in the other corner if I live in a 4 to 5, meditating and just centering myself before we go out there. But we also had to come together in those last moments so that we could feel each other's energy and feel that grounded moment. But to answer your question, the moments where you, you hold back is when you're not fully extending your movement. You're not fully pushing through your elements and executing them as, as, as quickly or on as confidently as you can. So if you're stepping into a spin or a twizzle, like a turn across the ice or things like that, there's assuredness to your, your steps because you practice them thousands and thousands and thousands of times, and you kind of just have to let your body take over. When you get into your brain and you start thinking about things, mistakes happen as you're just. All of a sudden things are happening slower or they're having too fast and you're trying to do something, you're thinking, like, how do I do this three turn? You don't need to think through those things. And it's like, that becomes exhausting. And then it also changes the timing of, of your elements. And that's really hard to control when you have a partner on the ice who's, yeah, you know, trying there. If you're skating free, then you can just rely on, on your, your, your practice, your training. Going into that program where if you're holding back, then everything gets jarring, becomes more exhausting, and then halfway through the program, you're gassed and you can't get across the ice until you're crawling. And everything becomes small and little. And the judges are like, well, you were crawling, so of course I'm not going to reward you with huge marks. Like, I could skate faster than that.

You know, I was just going to.

Say, that's a great explanation.

Thank you.

And it's not even that they can only see it. They can feel it. They can feel the energy. People. If people can see it and feel it through a television screen, you know, those judges can tangibly feel the differences in energy. So what brought you, what was it like? And take us through the qualifying for 2014 in Sochi.

So 2014 was. Well, we started our entire training in 2010. Yes, it was. All right, games are done. Quads there. We're gonna build this. So it was like we needed to build. And it was about. There's a really good speaker and also chef DE mission, Marnie McBean, who was integral into that buildup because she talked about how every day, it's not about being the best, but it's like getting that little bit of nugget of satisfaction that you're getting a little bit better, a little bit better, a little bit better. So she equated to a bowl of rice. And so every day there was a. Every day you had success or you grew, you got a grain of rice. And so it just grew and grew and grew and grew until you had to look back at four years later, this huge bowl of rice. And that's what you had to remember. Walking into the Games is like, I have this huge amount of knowledge and growth throughout these entire years, and that gave us confidence moving forward. And so it was remembering that on a daily basis and remembering that not only did every day count, but. But every day. I didn't need to be a champion. I just had to be just a little bit better. Just a little bit better. Because it wasn't about being the best. It was just. How about having just, like, a little bit more rice than everyone else? You know, just a little bit. So that I felt that I was able to go out there and perform to my best.

Otherwise, it can become so overwhelming. It's. It's the. There's a, you know, a saying. How do you eat an elephant? Right. You know, it's one bite at a time and.

Right, Exactly.

Kind of. Kind of thing. So when you. When you actually qualified, was it just. Were you guys over the moon?

Well, it was. It was funny. I. After 2010, I was like, okay, this is like, we're going to qualify, and I'm going to imagine. I imagined that moment of being able to see those marks and have it. But luckily, because we just changed our focus and changed the way that we skated and skating free and just skating for ourselves through that experience. We didn't even need to prove ourselves at that point when it came to qualifications, we were basically like, we were on the team before we even got to the nationals, so we didn't need to worry about that. But it was like the joy of being able to just go out there and celebrate that fact instead of the worry of it it's just like, okay, I'm just. I'm just gonna skate and celebrate this now.

It's the Olympics, right?

And so that was, that was. It was a nice thing to go into nationals because the nationals is only like, a month before Olympics. To be able to. To not have nationals be our peak, but be on the upswing of our peak so that Olympus could actually be our peak because it was all about, you know, the periodization of everything.

So. And our listeners may or may not realize this, but I know I've said it before in that, especially in individual sport athletes that the majority of Olympians who are in an individual sport, they get there, especially in sports like track and swimming and, and gymnastics and things like that, they PB for the qualifier because it's so hard or not. They're peaking. And they might even get PBS in the qualifier. But not world records in the Olympics. The world records are often happening in the qualifier because they've peaked at the qualifier, not at the Olympics. And so for you to have really put the work in and had that kind of bond, you know, it probably couldn't have happened that way without the not qualifying for 2010. Otherwise you would have been in one of those similar worrisome, anxious boats of, you know, barely making it at the. At the qualifier to make it to the Olympics. And then, you know, you're not putting out your best at the Olympics. And what an amazing. Like, that's, that's the pinnacle is to be able to put your best out at the Olympics, not to have fizzled right after the Olympics because you're so spent from trying to qualify like so many athletes are, and then they're just, like, clawing their way along to make it through the actual Olympic Games. So, you know, that's, that's this, you know, magical kind of thing that you're able to experience. So beautiful.

Right? Exactly. Yeah. I do feel it's funny. One of our biggest moments is probably one of the things I'm most grateful for, and that was not making the Games in 2010, because if I hadn't had that moment, the next nine, eight, nine years of competition wouldn't been as rewarding. And who knows if they would have been at all, you know, because maybe I just would have achieved them and like, oh, okay, I'm done. Next. You know, and it's. I'm so grateful that I didn't make those gains because it made me appreciate why I skated more. Sorry, why I skated more because it was that change in focus that Change in thought process of why I'm doing this.

I think it's so important for people to hear that and really understand that because it's so applicable across life in general, across everything. Because it's the. You cannot appreciate that gorgeous fall summer day. Or a sunny day, I should say, unless you've had the rainy, miserable dark gray as well. You know, you can't fully embrace the most amazing things unless you've really understood what it's like on the other side, on the worst side of things.

Right. I think, as we've seen in this pandemic, I think it's forced people to take a pause and almost appreciate what they had and also hopefully kind of change that. That pace and that focus and mindset moving forward, because now there can be a little bit more conscious of everything that's coming to them instead of just kind of letting the world fill up with the noise and noise and noise and just powering through and be like, okay, now I'm just working for the weekend or I'm working for this vacation, just blah, blah, blah. Instead of, like, living in that moment and realizing, wow, I get to. To be able to be outside with my friends, you know, in a group, going to a wedding, you know, it's like I get to be able to feel that. That connectivity. Whereas now it's. It's a struggle. It's. You get to appreciate those moments more and more.

It's funny you say that, because I feel like people might have been appreciating everything from food to their time with loved ones, and now it's almost like people are rushing back into the chaos that they always had, but in a different way. Now it's through a screen all the time, or it's, you know, the level has gotten back up, but with this extra layer of anxiety and now extra screen time and all the things that way. So I think. I think the. I don't know, I think the hobbies and the exploration and the appreciation and the pause and the slowdown was really amazing. And then it's like people couldn't. Couldn't stay that way. You know.

I guess I'm. You know, I'm hopeful that although not everyone learned, I'm hopeful that there was a good majority that at least has be able to create a little bit more balance in their life. And I think it's. Life is all about balance. Like, yes, you're gonna have those moments where there is going to be chaos and everything's gonna be happening, but if you're at least a Little bit more aware of what's going around. You can have a little bit more personal health and not just kind of go through the daily grind of life, but maybe that's just my altruistic view of things.

Yeah, that's perfect, though.

How are you talking about change of seasons and transition, the difference of just life with COVID Can you talk a little bit about how this transition period in your career has been and what's been good about it, what's been bad? What have you learned in kind of this short about yourself and maybe where you see yourself in a few years or ten years from now?

Right. And I think that's probably the. One of the biggest questions that's been a struggle for me because as I, you know, stepped away from all the other external things and became more athlete and sport driven, I became more and more identified as the athlete and not just as my. Not just from myself, but from, like, those around me. You know, I was Andrew the figure skater. Not just Andrew, a person who skates. So it was trying to come and realize again who. Who Andrew is. Like, who am I at my core? What was my motivating factors and realizing what my. My true purpose is and what I want to continue on now. Last season, Caitlin and I decided to step away from competition for that season to really address that. You know, I. I felt like I needed personal growth outside of the sport, and I couldn't be in the sport competing, focused and felt like I was giving it all while exploring the other aspects of myself. So it's like I needed that pause in order to. To feel like I could challenge and look where my walls were and try to just figure out who I was again. And so I took this past year to. To go out and say yes to whatever came up and explore because I kept on being told the opportunities are endless. And I was like, yes, they're endless, but that can also be kind of scary because they're endless. And I was like, I don't know where to start, where what happens? And one of my good teammates was like, just go do things and then you'll learn maybe not what you like, but you'll learn what you don't like. So at least you can cross things off the list. So. And it's just, okay, I'll do it. So I said yes to things. And I. Lo and behold, there was things I was like, nope, don't like that. Next. Next. You know, and I made mistakes, but I at least learned through those mistakes. And now I feel like I. I know Myself at my core, more than I ever have. And I've grown and developed personally and just understood a little bit more who, who I am and what I want out of my life. But it's. I think it's gonna be a learning experience. I'm still trying to understand that. I'm still trying to figure out what that really means in a concrete way, like what that really looks like. But I understand more and more the value system behind what I want to bring. Yeah.

Well, I want to say it's refreshing to hear. We talk to a lot of athletes we trained with. Kari's trained thousands of athletes and seen the spectrum and just applaud your presence, mind, to realize that while you're in it, you couldn't properly look at what else is there. And to have that realization, to explore that for yourself and know that you can't skate the level you're skating at for the next 20 years.

Right. I mean, it wasn't a popular opinion, to be honest. It wasn't a popular opinion and it was a hard pillow to swell for some people. But at the end of the day, I had to be selfish and do it for myself because I. I knew if I continued through that pathway, it would be a darkness that came in, you know, and I couldn't live in that. You know, I couldn't live as. As. As that in that direction in my life. So I was like, okay, I need to step away just for my own, my own mental health moving forward.

What have been some of the favorite things you've. You tried out that really, that you've loved?

Honestly, it was going to, like, networking events or going to social events with old friends that were in a very different lifestyle, a very different way of living in industries that I had no clue about at all. And just throwing myself in the fire and was like, okay, you're going to be sitting here at the table with experts and you are the only one, but they don't know that. So you have to, like, just speak your truth and just see what happens. And it was intimidating because I was like, I. I have no clue what. I don't know. You're talking about all these, like, going to the financial sectors and being in there with. With people that have been in the banking industry for years. And I'm just like, I have no clue what you're talking about. You're talking about all these terms. But it expanded and challenged my brain in one way and also created connections because they also respected what I gained. And so I realized the value I brought to the table through my experience because they're so unique and I have a different skill set than a lot of them do. And so they were trying to learn from me while I was trying to learn from them. So it created that bridge and conversation, and so I've created new friendships and new connections from that. And it was just like, okay, I just want to continue this conversation and just see where it goes. And, you know, I've had some cool opportunities because of that. And, you know, it brought me to like, I'm doing a master's program that I never thought I would want to do because I didn't think that, like, I was. I went to school for biomedical science, was very science driven, and now I'm in a business master's program because, you know, I decided, like, I realized that that's really where my passion lies, is in some of that. So it was realizing those gaps.

Yeah. Even though high performance athletes can be so worldly, they're still so singularly focused and so specialized that it's almost isolating from learning unless you're seeking out to learn those other things. So that's really neat that your schooling has become so diverse, I guess, in a way, right?

Yeah. And I, I have a very curious nature and so I love to watch, like, documentaries. I love to watch all these other things. And, and my parents are like, well, it's. Why are you spending your time, like, learning about all these other things? And I would just sit there and study about random things. And I was like. I was like, okay, well, I'm not. Yeah, I'm not getting degrees, I'm not doing anything. But it's really interesting to learn about, like, all these different avenues that are quirky and weird. But I was like, eventually something will figure itself out. And I realize now that even though nothing really made sense at the time, all that is culminating together to create a little bit more of a, A unified understanding of like, okay, this is why I was meant to learn this, this, this, this, and I'm just kind of going with it. And yeah, it doesn't really make sense, but I can lean on this kind of knowledge and this kind of knowledge to give me a different perspective on things.

Have you read the book Range?

No. No.

It's by David Epstein, and I think you would really appreciate it. And it's basically about people who are not hyper specialized, that it's the range that really creates these, you know, talks about Van Gogh and all sorts of people. I think you might really enjoy it.

He was the one that wrote the Spot Sports gene or something like that, Right?

Yeah. He used to be, like, the research kind of person for Sports Illustrated, too, back in the day. And, yeah, he's got a science background. So this is curious. Just on. Just on my part here, I was able to work with. I was lucky enough to work with the women's national hockey team for three years leading into Sochi. And is that. Is Sochi where you met Natalie Spooner?

Yeah, that is where. Yeah, I met Natalie at the Sochi games. Yeah. Because we actually stayed in the same building as the women's hockey team, so we connected with, like, a lot of. A lot of the other female hockey players there.

Oh, and.

Yeah.

And did you. You had the.

Show Battle of the Blades.

That's it.

Yeah.

I was like. Oh, my gosh. I was gonna say Dancing with the Stars. I was like. It stuck on my tongue. Did you love that experience or what?

Oh, it was. It was amazing to have that experience because it allowed me to be in the sport without. Without it being the sport, like, normal, you know, it was. It was a different perspective, a different way of. Of being out there. It was. I had to be vulnerable because I wasn't there with my partner who I'd relied on for so many years, and I was in environment, and Natalie was relying on me so much because she's like, this is terrifying to be out there on my hockey gear. I'm in an environment. I'm in an environment that, like, I know, but, like, what are these things on my feet? Why am I in my dress? And, like, what is this? And just, like, dancing around and so she relied on me, and it felt nice to have a different perspective, and it gave me a new respect for the sport of, like, what it can accomplish beyond it, because. Because at the end of the day, it was all about those charities and to be able to escape for them, to give voices to the small charities and to be able to. To broadcast that nationally so that people could learn the human stories behind everything that was there, but also support them and let those people in need really get the support they need.

And you guys did really well to do.

Yeah.

And it was a blast. Honestly, like, I've never laughed so hard. I had the best abs after that because I was just laughing all the time.

That's awesome. It looks. It looks like a lot of fun. It looked like a lot of fun. It was a blast. Was it. What was one of the charities that you were supporting most? Was it right to play?

Yes. I've been a Long time ambassador for right to play and something that I believe in because I've learned so much through the act of play, through being in the sporting environment. And just like in playing as a child, you learn so many fundamental skills of how to be a good human. And I think a lot of the underprivileged and less fortunate areas don't really have that availability and don't have that education. So it's, it's important to help support them and to get that, get that knowledge out there. And the thing that I love about Read to Play the most is the fact that they don't just go in, give them a bunch of stuff and leave. It's about going and really giving the knowledge to youth that become the leaders within their community. And then those youth leaders are the ones that then teach the next generation so it becomes a part of their entire community as a whole. So it's not someone coming out there and telling them what to do. It's having that conversation, that interaction, and teaching them some skills and then letting them develop into their own programs and just supporting them along the way with.

The right young leader to influence the other kids.

Absolutely.

That's great. So if we're to kind of wrap things up here with some fun personal questions, we like to ask some things that listeners often want to know. Things like favorite movie or favorite book or something you're reading right now. What's. What's there for you?

Well, favorite book of all time is the. The Alchemist. You know, it's always something. I, I've read it like thousands of times right there.

It gave me such a good feeling to read that. Like you just feel.

Yeah, I love it. I have one of the quotes in my room. It's like one of my favorite things. Which quote movies. The, the universe conspires to give you what you need, you know, and it's about living your personal legend. And I see so much correlations of how people can live their true self if they just live by. By just giving the universe what they want, but also telling it what they personally want and just kind of. So, you know, that's why I love that book. And you know, and I also, I'm trying to think of a good movie. It's a good movie. I mean, I grew up, I grew up watching GG Bang Bang was like my favorite all time movie growing up. I wore the VHS out over tons of times. And I think that's kind of why I got into like dancing and all that stuff. It was the musicals and all. I don't. I love that one. And up, actually, is my favorite movie of all time. Sorry, not Up. Sorry. Inside Up. Inside out is my favorite movie.

Which one's that?

That's the one where I've got the five elements in the person's head.

Oh, yeah, we've seen that.

Yeah. It's such a good movie because it's from a children's perspective. It's still fun and light, but if you actually watch it as adults, you realize how deep it really is. Such a beautiful creation of the human mind. Just like visualizing a cartoon. And I loved it.

Yeah. Brilliant and simple all at once, right?

Exactly.

What's the best meal? You mentioned you're a foodie and that you've been experimenting. If you had to split a meal to two questions in one. You can have dinner with anyone you want in the world, but you have to cook the meal for them.

Oh, geez.

Who are you inviting to dinner, and what are you preparing?

I invite my parents because they can't tell me it's horrible. They just have to love me either way.

Safe.

Right now.

Yeah.

You know. You know, I challenge my. It sounds simple, but Cacio e pepe, which is just like. It's a very basic Italian pasta dish, but it's. It seems basic in the ingredients, but it's the technique, and that's, you know, it's. Technique changes a lot. So, like, I learned how to cook pasta, make pasta from scratch, and create that, and it's just simple ingredients, and I. It's like one of my favorite ones, and restaurants always get it wrong. So it's like I'm. You know, I always want to. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

He lived in Italy for a while in his career, and in France for seven years as well. So he's become very, you know, if I put too much water to boil for pasta, or, sorry, too little because it has to be more. And then I'm like, okay, okay, because he's. Or the wine.

Exactly.

I don't pick any wine because he knows the terroir of anywhere.

Right, Exactly. Yeah. It's got to be where you come from. You know, you got to be able to have the correlation. Yeah.

So, yeah, that's good. Okay. What about a favorite dessert? Because I'm all about the sweets.

I actually am more like. I don't love sweets. You know, I'm more of, like. I love savory things. I would rather have another entree than have a dessert. But if I'm having a dessert, it's usually something to do with, like, dark chocolate or, like, I love. And this might sound weird to some people, but I love having gelato with olive oil and sea salt on it. So it's like a little bit of, like, a sweet and savory and salty all together. So it's like a little meld of everything. So, yeah.

Who's getting hungry now?

I'm getting hungry. I haven't had dinner yet. I need food. Oh, man.

We're on a month of no sweets, so we're on sweet for September.

How's that going? Yeah, thanks.

How's that going for you?

Yeah, exactly.

On a more serious but maybe personal note, what kind of message would you like to send young athletes who may be listening to this or coaches or whoever? What would be a message that you would like to send out there?

I think whether you're an athlete, a coach, or just a human being in general, it's just kind of taking the time. Taking the time to take a pause, whether it be daily or whether it be weekly. But, you know, try to take a pause in your life and just reflect on who you are, what you've accomplished, and kind of celebrate those moments. Because I think too often we forget about those as people and kind of get lost in that chaos. So it's really about, you know, just celebrating even the smallest little, and that's living a more balanced and healthy lifestyle.

Do you meditate?

Yes, I do. I have. I meditate and do yoga, like, every day, so.

Fantastic. I meditate every day. He meditates every few days.

Weekly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Fantastic. And where can people reach you? Where's your favorite platform to hang out? So if they want to follow you or if they want learn more about you, where. Where is your favorite spot?

I'm kind of over, but the one that I'm most active on would be Instagram, so it's poje a P O J E. Yeah. So that's where you'll probably see most of my interactions, and you can message me, and I'll be more than happy to have a conversation.

Awesome. Well, we really appreciate having this conversation with you. It's been fun. It's been insightful. It's been, you know, I think, really deep and authentic to where you are right now. And I think that people will really appreciate that because it's such a journey to go through a career like yours. So thank you so much for sharing that with us.

Thank you. You. Thank you very much. I appreciate the time. Thank you.