Ben Lee - Hormone Replacement for Performance

This is episode 208 of the Empowered Team Podcast. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast, where we explore how to optimize your performance in career, sport, and life. And now your host, executive coach and life strategist, Kari Schneider.

Welcome, welcome, Ben, to the Empowered Team Podcast. And it used to be formerly the Empowered Athlete podcast. And we today are so lucky to have Ben Lee here, founder CEO of 4BPM. And Ben is in the process of delivering incredible health services via blood tests, hormone therapies, different things that can optimize performance, especially in this day and age where a lot of people might feel like they're burning themselves out or they just can't put their finger on what the problem is. So welcome, Ben. Thank you for being with us.

Thank you so much for having me, Kari.

Yeah, no problem. And we have a few things in common in a number of friends that we have in common. And we also have the utmost respect for Tony Robbins.

Yeah, absolutely. It's interesting. I literally live right across the water from him. So basically almost see his house. And I've been going to them since 2005. Very cool years. Yeah, it's crazy.

Wow, that's. That's, you know, you look back and you're like, how did the decades get away? All of a sudden you're looking at going, that's almost. You're almost looking at 20 years. Right. So very cool. So you are in this business that really serves to help people feel their best. Is that accur.

Yeah, absolutely. What I like to say is, you know, our mission is to help people discover their cheat code, to live their best life, because people understand that and whatever that looks like for you, whether it's building muscle, burning fat, having more energy, sleeping better, or, you know, looking, feeling younger, or even just bringing the best version of yourself to your mission every single day. You know, we help people do that by just asking the body a series of questions through blood testing, genetic testing, and metabolomics, which is urine test. Because your body's infinitely intelligent, as long as you understand which questions to ask it and how to interpret the information that it provides back, we create highly customized protocols where we don't have to stab in the dark. There's no guessing your body's going to tell me. It's all about just providing the body with the raw materials that it needs in the proper amounts to operate at its absolute peak.

Very cool. Now, you said you do blood and you do urine and genetic testing. So like a DNA kind of profiling. Now, the DNA that's going to be their genetic makeup, the blood and the urine. Do you have to do multiple tests to see if something's different from, say, a time of day or one day to another day? Or, or is it enough for you to just kind of grab the one test? And is that going to give you enough information for what you need?

Well, it depends on the individual because again, we do customize each protocol. Some people come specifically to us for, let's say, the methylation piece, which is genetic. And methylation is probably one of the most important processes in the body that no one's ever heard about. And it's responsible for everything from neurological function, cardiovascular function, immune function, detoxification, DNA and RNA synthesis, the production and metabolism of your neurotransmitters, production of hormones, creatine to allow your muscles to contract, even energy production and fat metabolism. And, you know, if you have poor methylation, you know, it manifests itself as adhd, ocd, anxiety, depression, Alzheimer's, Parkinson's, gut issues, certain cancers, heart disease, fibromyalgia. I mean, the list goes on. I could. That's only half. I mean, the list goes on and on and on. And, you know, the typical traditional allopathic disciplines, you know, what do they do? They typically prescribe a pill for everyone was ills. Right. So, you know, for ADHD alone, they have five. Right. It's Adderall, Strattera, Ritalin, five, and Quebel for depression. I mean, there's not even a quarter of them. Cymbalta, Paxil, Prozacort, Wellbutrin, Abilify, Lexapro, and that's not even, I think there's like 30 of them.

Now, the pharmaceuticals will go on and on for our, for our listeners. So most people, I don't think will have heard of methylation. Can you tell us a little bit more about this kind of. Is it a genetic test? Tell us more about what this methylation is.

Sure. So methylation is. I'm going to try to keep this as simple as possible. It is your body's ability or inability to convert or activate certain compounds in your own body into usable forms. If you think about a conveyor belt, a conveyor belt that has widgets, if you have full, let's say, capacity to methylate, there's an arm to pull over every single widget to the next part of the process. So nothing's falling on the ground. Everything's 100% efficient. All the other subsequent processes are getting the raw materials that they need to operate properly. And sometimes we have what we call the genetic mutation where it actually reduces our capacity to methylate. And there's two different types where one is about a 40% capacity to methylate. So let's say for every one that gets pulled over, one falls on the ground. One that gets pulled over, one falls on the ground. Obviously not as good as the full capacity to methylate. And then the worst one is where you have none whatsoever. So everything literally just falls on the ground. And if you can visualize all of the subsequent processes, none of those processes are getting the raw materials that they need.

So just to. And now I'm just speculating here. So it sounds like this methylation would be this combination of neurotransmitters and hormones and receptors like the catalysts that keep things going. And then. So this methylation is just whether the things are doing what they're supposed to do, when to create the outcome that would create. That would mean our body is functioning optimally.

Correct.

Does that kind of just dumb it down? Right. Right down there.

Yeah, absolutely. And the great thing is that it's genetic in a sense that it won't change.

Yeah.

And it's luckily what we call an actionable gene, you know, so, for example, you know, if you have blue eyes, you can't change that permanently, you know, unless you, you know, contacts don't really count. Or, you know, if you, you know, get that crazy injection in your eye. Right. Obviously wants to do that. Or your hair. And was it you that called me out of this? I was like, your hair doesn't change unless it turns gray. Right. Well, so.

So to that point, though, if. When we consider a lot of the things that are causing the problems in these systems. So if someone's not able to. I don't know if I can use it as a verb, methylate the way. Okay, as a verb, methylate the way they would optimally. What are you seeing? Because you've got experience seeing. You see a person come in, you might have profiled them. I'm just guessing here. You might have profiled them. They've got some habits. They've got some. You can see their profile. You can see their blood. You can see some weight issues. You can see some blood pressure. You know, some things that are causing those. What do you think would be, say, the top three things that are contributing to this dysfunction in their genetic code that's malleable?

Well, it's not understanding which specific compounds that you can't methylate, for example. So one of them is specifically folic acid. And, you know, there's a lot of misinformation about folic acid. A lot of people use the word folic acid and folate interchangeable, but there is a difference. Folic acid is synthetic. It's man made.

Yeah.

Where whereas folate is either naturally occurring or the activated form of folic acid. And there are a lot of people that can't actually methylate or, you know, utilize folic acid. And you know, you hear all the stories out there about women especially that go through pregnancy. They have, you know, huge emotional outbursts, they, you know, have postpartum depression. And you know, one of the hypotheses that we have is, you know, in prenatals, you know, they have sometimes 2, 3, 400 times you know, the recommended amount of folic acid, you know, the synthetic form, you know, in their formulations. And if, let's say you have the complete inability to convert, what you're doing is you're literally oversaturating your body with something that you can't even utilize.

On that specific point, I'm just going to dive, just ask a couple of questions on that specific point. At one point I talked to a friend who was a well educated naturopath and on that topic alone, she had said that over 50 people, 50% of people simply cannot process the folic acid. And it's, it's so prevalent that in the UK overseas, they don't allow supplements to be given with folic acid in it. Is that, is that the case still?

And it depends on the specific background of the individual. There are percentages and, you know, it depends on obviously, you know, if it's of your European descent, African descent or Asian descent. You know, there are different percentages with regards to people that typically have that, you know, particular mutation. And it's interesting that you speak about, you know, things in, let's say, Europe versus here. You know, there's things that are allowed in our food system and in our food sources, you know, in the United States, even in Canada, that are different. Yeah, yeah. And it's interesting where I get this sometimes where, you know, we do the diagnostics and, you know, we provide them the protocol and they're like, oh, you know what? I think we're just going to try to eat better and, you know, do some things better and see if we can move, you know, the, the needle, you know, on, you know, on our biomarkers. And you know, unfortunately in the United States, our food supply is just really terrible. You know, we basically watered it down to where there aren't, you know, there Aren't, you know, nutrient rich anymore? Yeah. So, you know, we're having to supplement with, you know, with other supplements, vitamins, minerals, because we just can't get the required amount of nutrition out of our food sources.

So between a depleted topsoil, between mass farming, between just modified foods that may not be the way they used to be, or they're being modified to grow for mass instead of quality or density. So you're pointing to a number of things that are there systemically. So it sounds to me like you might have a person or two or maybe many people who decide, okay, I'm going to make these changes now that I have this information. And sometimes it's just not enough for what they want, for the kind of feeling or life or performance they want because when they go to make those changes, they just don't have access to amazing high nutrient and vitamin mineral, micronutrient dense foods. So now, in your opinion, I'm in a situation where right now I'm in a remote place in Canada just for the season, for the summer, and I've been fortunate enough to be eating a bunch of foods from someone's hydroponic farm that's next door and a number of foods from a family member's garden that's been growing all summer in an area that's very remote. So there's no, you know, there's no pesticides, there's no neighbors, there's no, you know, it's, it's in the remote forest kind of thing. So I'm lucky enough to be able to have access to these beans and peas and zucchinis and tomatoes and cucumbers and wild blueberries from the north, you know, so I have all these things coming in. But when you think about it, that's not normal for the average person. Canada, the us, Europe, wherever, that's just not normal. So if someone didn't go the route of. Because I still have people, even if I tell them what the lay of the land is now, and I'm asking them to supplement because they are not going to get the variety based on what the needs are and they're not going to have the sources. But if someone still says, you know, I don't want to supplement, I want my food to be the be all end all my food is the only way I'm going to get my nutrients, what would you recommend to them? Are they to go to an organic market every week? Are they to, you know, obviously I think most of us know to look for whole foods, but you know, what else would you say if. Something different than that.

Yeah, I mean, other than just trying to find organic sources of foods, trying to get a variety of obviously different colors, you know, trying to just keep the, you know, the sources as varied as possible.

Yeah, and that's the thing. Usually if you find people who are willing to get in the routines of, if they're exercising regularly and they're eating well regularly, they're typically routine based. So you're going to see a lot of the same breakfasts, same lunches, same same dinners, or rotation of three or four of the similar things. So there's not that massive variety. And that's, that's the other problem I see come in, in this, you know, first world problem of, of not getting the nutrients that, that people ideally want for their best performance physically and mentally in what they want to do.

Right. Because we're all looking for convenience. And obviously I'm extremely guilty of that. I remember this is about maybe like 15 years ago, I was introduced to a nutritionist and she got me hooked on raw foods, dehydrating. And I remember I kind of literally dove in head first, so to speak, bought a dehydrator, sprouted grains and whatnot. And then I realized how just inefficient it was. It took me a week to sprout the grains and, you know, create the bread, get, you know, like, do like a, an avocado spread and whatnot. And I literally ate it in like a minute for all that. I was like, okay, this isn't gonna work. And I was like, it tasted good, but I was like, okay, yeah, that this is just too much time.

Right?

Yeah. Unfortunately, we just, you know, we just can't create, you know, something that's super simplified and efficient where, you know, we can really get nutrient dense foods, obviously a diverse group of them, easily. So, yeah, it is difficult.

I don't want to spend too much time on the nutrition aspect, but I do want to say that the other thing too, that people don't realize is that even if they are getting a nutrient profile panel or testing of some sort, they're often falling within normal without realizing that it's not the best for what they could potentially be feeling or performing or the best for their optimal health. It's just within normal. And I say that because we. So for a number of years, I worked with Hockey Canada, leading the women's national hockey team in strengthening or helping them with strength and conditioning going into Sochi in 2014. And, you know, these are high level athletes who are inside most of the time for most of the year.

So very low G3 levels.

Yeah, absolutely. And the thing was, is that if any one of them went to their physician, they would typically be within normal, but it wasn't optimal for the kind of performance and demand physically that they needed. So, you know, those are some of the things that I try to tell regular clients that. Oh, you know, I think my D, my D levels are normal. Well, if you live in Canada or in the Northern Hemisphere, they're just not, because you're not getting outdoors 30 minutes a day, at least, and, or within the right time frame. And most people just don't know that. And that's one of the top five most efficacious supplements that there are. And, and yet a lot of people just don't know that. So what they think is within normal or what their physician, especially a general practitioner who's dealing with the masses, they're not going to even mention it if they're not showing some real problems of low vitamin D. So those types of things, I think are falling below the radar for a lot of people in that they figure they're normal, they figure they're fine. And, and they're being compared to what now? Normal is massively unhealthy, with over 50% of the US being obese now. So if we're speaking to a population who wants their best health, then we're speaking to people who are now in the. They might be in the single percentage. Exactly. Single digits, 5%. If that's the case, then you're really narrowing. At least it narrows your market. But for those who are looking to get healthy and maybe they're ready to make these changes, sometimes you've got tools, like hormonal tools that can help them round that corner. When you see things that are just glaringly off, clearly they're, I mean, I'm going to guess here, you're probably going to know that sleep, nutrition, exercise are the biggest three. Would, would you. Would you agree with that? Or, or is there something new?

Yeah, sleep. Because obviously, you know, with sleep, it's extremely important to recover. You know, if it doesn't matter how hard you go, you know, in the gym, you, you don't build muscle there. Yeah, you build muscle. You know, when you, when you rest, you tear your muscles, you know, when, when you're working out. But, you know, the, you know, the hyperplasia, you know that, you know, that's when you know you're actually building muscle when you're sleeping. Same thing you Know, with your memories, right? You, you can't actually lock in long term memories until you sleep. And that's the one thing a lot of people just really don't get, high quality sleep. And, you know, I have a lot of people, you know, that come to me, you know, specifically for sleep. And I'll be completely honest with them. It's one of the hardest things to figure out because again, there's so many variables that come into play with sleep. It could be hormones, you know, it could be, you know, the lack of, let's say, progesterone. It could be that you don't have enough, let's say testosterone to signal your bone marrow to create more red blood cells of hemoglobin. So you can't carry oxygen. And if you can't carry oxygen, you're going to be tired, especially when you're trying to sleep, you can't carry enough oxygen, so you become hypoxic, right? So then you're not getting enough oxygen to really recover. Well, it could be because your bed sucks, you haven't flipped in a while. It could be because, you know, your significant other wants it too hot or too cold. It could be, you know, an actual physical issue where, you know, you actually, you have like sleep apnea, you know, physically, or it could be actually a methylation issue. You know, one of the things that occurred to me was I have a particular break where if I inject cyanocobalamin, which is a form of B12, I literally have racing thoughts where I can't go to sleep. Doesn't matter how physically or mentally exhausted I am, my mind will race a million miles a minute and I cannot turn it off. So, you know, it could be, you know, a whole host of reasons and, you know, that's why we have to be, you know, really diligent in basically just crossing things off the list.

So is it, do you find that with your clients, especially if it's a hormone or a supplement, prescription or suggestion, do you find that you are trial and error going through a trial and error with them A lot? Try something and then go, okay, well this is, this is feeling better. Like, is it like that or is it, it's feeling better. And here are my blood markers now. Like, what is, what does that look like?

That's a funny question. And again, you know, I'm going to bring this up as kind of a joke, but it's kind of, it's actually kind of the truth. So, you know, the, the meme, it's like, okay, how do you turn a man on versus how do you turn a woman on? You know, man is like a light switch. Women, it's like 100 different knobs and dials. It's like the exact same thing with their hormones. So you give a male who has low testosterone, testosterone, they're going to feel better almost 100% time on ostrich. Women, on the other hand, you know, because again, they're dealing with so many different hormones. I mean, you're dealing with luteinizing hormone, follicle stimulating hormone, estradiol, estriol, progesterone. And a lot of the times when you're looking at, you know, women, their, their hormones, you actually have to by process of elimination figure out where they are in their menstrual cycle or if they're postmenopausal. And there's some women where it doesn't all line up in the same phase. So, you know, they're, you know, their, their hormones are completely, you know, out of whack. And you know, we see a lot of women have, you know, let's say issues, but you know, what we call estrogen dominance where they have 100 times more estrogen than progesterone and you know, they'll work out five, six days a week, they'll be on a diet and doesn't matter what they do, like, they literally will not be able to lose the weight around, you know, their belly until you're able to fix that hormone hormonal issue.

And when you say fix that, that, like what, what, what, what might that look like for someone who's got a lot of estrogen and is doing all the right things and she's not losing it around her belly? And what would, what might that look like for them, trying to fix it? What might be some two or three top approaches you would use?

Sure. So one of the things that, what works extremely, extremely well is, you know, we'll take, you know, a woman's blood labs so it'll actually measure the hormones I just mentioned. And then we'll also provide them with a symptom sheet. So their symptomology could be anything from crying easily, weight gain, insomnia, tiredness, fatigue. There's some other ones, obviously that are very female related. And on a scale of 0 to 10, 0 not being an issue, 10 being a major issue, we provide that to one of our master pharmacists who's been doing this for about three decades. And you know, we create a highly customized, you know, hormone replacement therapy protocol, you know, for you know, for our female patients, you know, so we can look anything from, let's say, you know, one hormone to six, and it could also include thyroid hormones, too, depending on, you know, what their labs tell them. So, you know, it, you know, tablet, which is really, really super simple to take. It's just typically one in the morning, one in the evening, you know, so, you know, it's much easier than having to, you know, do injectables. And, you know, I know there's other so delivery systems, you know, such as, like creams and whatnot, so that we don't really like as much because again, there's so much variability in the absorption rates of creams or pellets and pellets. I'm not a fan of pellets either.

Okay.

Because every. Good.

You're not. So what was the first thing you said? It was oral. You are a fan of.

So, yeah, oral. Orals are better. Yeah. Or orals are better because with. With any type of subdermal or, I'm sorry, transdermal, especially if, you know, if it's a cream of some sort, you really don't know, you know, what the consistency of the absorption rate is. So if you. Somebody put it on your, you know, let's say your, you know, your underarms versus your arm, you know, versus, like your arm versus your legs or whatever it may be, you know, there's obviously different thickness of the skin, different areas and then the pellets. Oh, man, I see this all the time. Where women have four to five times more than where they should be in their clinical reference range.

So it's just released too much too fast.

Yeah. And things grow that aren't supposed to grow.

Not nice. So now I just want to. Anyone who's listening to the podcast, maybe earmuffs for the little ones for a second. I've heard of women using a cream to just kind of help more for an acute arousal on the nether regions in order for. Just to help them if they're postmenopausal. Is that something that the creams would. Would be appropriate for versus changing a whole overall health profile?

Honestly, I don't have too much experience with that, you know, to be completely honest. So I don't have any personal experience from it. So. Yeah.

So. So I'm going to. I'm going to actually tell you something I do have experience with that is more personal for my end because some women may be in this boat like me. And then I'm going to ask a couple male questions because I Got a number of questions from men on this topic as well. But for me personally, I've gone through menopause and in doing that, and genetically most of the women in my maternal side of my family went through menopause fairly early, but still within the normal range. So around that 47 year old kind of range. But when I went through menopause when this was going on, it was right in Covid and I had the full on wide awake at 2am like I could have run a marathon or built a business or done any of the high demand things at that time. And it was just almost this extreme agitation and massive hot flashes and then just that anxiety or agitation that I wouldn't ordinarily have. So just feeling all these things were going on. And I also had clients, friends, other women that had reported, well, you know, you should really do some estrogen supplementing. Now there are two reasons why I was a hard no on that. Now number one was that I wanted, I figured that I am one of the healthiest people that I know in terms of top 1% in terms of fitness, strength, overall health. So I thought to myself in the back of my mind, I just want to give my body a chance to figure this out before I do something else. And when I say a chance, I wanted to give it a good six to eight months even though it might have sucked at the time. That was rationale. But the second major thing was that a maternal ant has a gene marker that is such a high cancer risk, if they have this gene, that means that they should get a mastectomy. They will likely get a hysterectomy as preventative measures and they'll still have to do constant liver monitoring because it's over an 86% chance that they will get certain types of cancers. My aunt, my maternal aunt has this gene. It's confirmed. Right around that same time I was waiting to find out whether my mother had the gene which would put me in the in the mix and my daughter is in the mix for having that gene. So I wasn't going to touch any estrogen supplementation at that time because of that genetic factor. I was waiting out to see whether I had potential to have this gene. So I had two major reasons. But ultimately as I found out, A, my mother doesn't have the gene, which brings it so that I wouldn't have the gene and my daughters wouldn't have the gene gene, so my mother doesn't have the gene. So that was awesome. But B, as I gave at the time, then Everything stabilized and apparently. What's her name? I think it's Dr. Lisa. She does research on women's brains and hormones. But she apparently, the research says that the brains eventually adapt in going through the hormone change. So. So I waited it out and eventually the hot flashes decreased, subsided or disappeared. I could sleep normally again. I wasn't going through the insane changes in energy or agitation or things like that. And everything just kind of adapted and now I was living kind of normal life like I used to without a menstrual cycle, which like, okay, this is kind of awesome. Made it through Shining Colors. So I really wouldn't have a reason to. However, there's a number of people that I knew who would be going through the exact same thing and wouldn't have the. No, as hard as my nose were to try something else. And so because they weren't getting the sleep, they were losing their mind. They might have kids or family demands or work demands and they're like, give me some estrogen. Away we go. What are your thoughts on that kind of overall story? Is there. Would you have suggestions for people in different situations? Do you try to give a timeline, especially if they're beginning of menopause? Or is it like, okay, try this right now, or what kind of approach do you take overall?

Honestly, it's a case by case basis because everyone is so different. And as I mentioned before, you know, women are 100 different knobs and diets or experience going through perimenopause into menopause is different from, you know, a lot of women. There are some similarities, but it's, you know, it's never going to be 100 the same, you know. So, you know, when it comes to that, you know, we really have to really just, you know, unique in each, in each protocol because like you said, there are some people that have, let's say a genetic predisposition to cancers, so you can't touch the estrogens at all. If they have, let's say, high prostate specific antigen or if cancer is in the familial history, that's going to be an issue as well. We really have to address each individual based on their own case because even if you have, let's say the gene and let's say you have a sister that doesn't have a gene. So then just because you have, you know, basically most of the same, you know, DNA, but it's still going to be different in that sense because, you know, let's say, you know, your mother was carrier, give it to you. But didn't give it to your sister so. Exactly like how your, your mother and her sister are.

Yeah, yeah. And to that point it's, it's very refreshing to hear that from you as in the case by case, individual by individual, because so many people are trying to jump on whether it's a hormone program or a diet or an exercise program that worked for so and so, but aren't testing or experimenting with themselves to figure themselves out. They're trying to grab what worked for so and so, apply it to themselves and it might feel great for a week, six weeks, something, but then it's just either not sustainable or doesn't work long term because they haven't tried to figure the things out for their own, their own body. The zenith is back. The most amazing retreat that really dives in to getting you to your next level, physically, mentally, spiritually. We have leased out a five acre oceanfront, gorgeous spot in Sayulita, Mexico. And it is time for you to dive in, in and change your life. And I don't mean there's anything wrong with your life. I mean up level, expand, make it what you really want. The zenith is coming end of February this year. We'll tell you more. We just want you to know ahead of time, save the dates. Yeah. So I imagine it can be very frustrating for people when they're just trying to slap and try something, slap something on and it's not working. So when it comes to men, the light switch. You mentioned testosterone and I know that for men who specifically are in their 40s, 50s, 60s, they're starting to feel the effects of just their testosterone slowly decreasing due to age. And maybe they're not as active as they used to be. Maybe they don't eat as well as they used to, or maybe they're just, you know, they're not paying attention to it as much, but they're feeling those effects. It's usually energy, it's usually a few different things. But what are your thoughts on, you know, is. Do you think, do you think that some men will never need to supplement with testosterone? Do you think that all men should do? I don't want to blanket statement it. I know it is individual, but what are you seeing at this point with people that you work with in their needs or what's happening for men and their supplementation hormonally?

Sure. So we actually let their body determine that because everyone's a little bit different in the sense that your body may be, let's say your pituitary gland. And again, we utilize Luteinizing hormone and follicle stimulating hormone as well, to signal the testes to create our own natural testosterone and spermogenesis. But sometimes your body is signaling, you know, your testes to create it, but it's not coming out right. So those people have to go, you know, to testosterone replacement therapy if they want the benefits, obviously, of having testosterone. Whereas some other people, their signals are a little bit lower with regards to the LH and fsh. So we can actually help boost their signal and then help to basically just support, you know, their own natural testosterone production. So really, their body is going to determine which way we go. And obviously, there are some people that are kind of, let's say, in that gray area, obviously, with men. And, you know, let's say before 35, we try to err towards, you know, having their own body produce it. And, you know, people like around 35 to, let's say 45, are kind of in that gray area. You know, they kind of have a decision to make, so to speak. You know, once you start taking testosterone, you're going to have to be on it if you want to obviously, you know, maintain those benefits. So, you know, it's kind of a personal choice, you know, in a sense, but, you know, we'll obviously provide them with, you know, with the specific recommendations. Hey, you know, you should probably go this way because of, you know, A, B and C, or, you know, go this way because of, you know, dnf, you know, in.

I want to distinguish for people, too, because there's a lot of. Sometimes people will think of taking testosterone or growth hormone or something like that. Automatically they think of steroids and banned substances. I come from a background where we had to avoid anything like that at all costs because it simply meant being banned from the Olympics or the whole team being banned if one person tested positive for something. But in these situations, what we're talking about, and correct me if I'm wrong here, is basically micro supplementing. It's these small, small amounts based on what that person might benefit from. Is that correct?

Right. All we're trying to do is to get them to the optimal range.

Okay.

When you're talking about, let's say bodybuilders or actual steroids, you know, they're taking sometimes 10 to 25 times as much as what we do in a week, you know, during that same time frame. And, you know, they're doing cocktails of multiple types of anabolics. So, you know, it's much different in that sense. You know, we're just looking to replace what the body already had at one point in time, and then in doing so, you're going to feel like you did when you had those levels. You know, it's not rocket science, but it's just a different, you know, mindset. Because, you know, we mentioned before with regards to, you know, people going to their physicians, and it's interesting. I hear this story all the time. You know, they go to their doctor because something is off, right, where they don't feel great. You know, they're not sleeping well, they don't have energy or whatever it may be. And, you know, the doctor runs tests. So, you know, after running tests, they go back and then doctor says, you're fine. It's like, no, no, no, but I feel like crap. No, no, no, you're fine. And you know, it's just that back and forth of they just try to fix issues. And the reference range for laboratories differ. So LabCorp is different from Quest, is different from other ones. So that reference range is literally just, you know, whatever the majority of that patient population is.

Right?

So I can actually tell, obviously we work with LabCorp, and I obviously memorize most of their, their reference ranges. But yeah, like I said, it's completely different. And when you're talking about athletes, right, they're already the top 1 of 1%. So their optimal range is significantly different than obviously the, the majority of the population. And I have four physicians in my family, all right? So, you know, I'm kind of the black sheep of the family. You know, I went the other way. And, you know, they're, they're great for, you know, whatever it is, like acute care. You know, if it's like, let's say cancer is, you know, actually my mother just was diagnosed with cancer last year with endometrial cancer. And literally within a few months, you know, surgery, irradiation, everything, right? And it reduced the probability of relapse to like single digits, right? So that's what's amazing. But when it comes to chronic issues, you know, that's where, you know, they have a major issue. Because with the traditional allopathic disciplines, you know, all they do is diagnose symptomology and then they treat the symptomology instead of actually looking at root cause, what's causing the symptomology. So, you know, that that's the major disconnect, you know, in, you know, the quote unquote health care, you know, just equation. Because if you are just treating symptomology, then you're stuck for protocol that they give you or pharmaceutical that they give you forever until you actually fix the root cause. So it's all just about allowing your body to heal itself. Just give it what it needs and makes it super simple.

Yeah, it is incredibly remarkable what the body can actually do. I mean, this could be a whole rabbit hole in and of itself. We don't want to go down. But why aren't things like that standardized? Because the layperson, the person who's the patient, if they've got some numbers, they're going to think that normal means normal somewhere else and somewhere else or optimal means optimal. Why isn't that standardized?

Well, that's a great question. I don't know why it's not standardized. And, you know, I think the reason why is because they believe that, you know, based on geographical location, know, in, in that population, you know, you're going to have certain, let's say, nuances with regards to health. Yeah, right. So you talk about like say the blue or the Mediterranean diet, that's going to be a little bit different versus let's say, Nebraska. Right. So, you know, they utilize, you know, more of a geographical approach there versus.

Background versus so many other gender. There's just so many other confounders too. But, and that's the thing, you'd think that there were standards because these are pretty apparent differences between humans. Gender, age, ethnicity, even you live in certain areas, you've got different minerals in the soil. But you think that just the main ones, gender, age, ethnicity, that there would be some optimal standards for those categories. But you know who. I'm just, I'm just voicing the ideals. Right. But so if someone. Back to the testosterone, if, and this was, you know, I knew some people a long time ago who would, would take steroids, would take growth hormone, would take testosterone. And one person I knew in particular, he did it for so long and so much that eventually his testes were just not doing what they were supposed to do and eventually he ended up going to the hospital because they were just shrinking away kind of thing. So. And I don't say that for a shock factor. I say that because ultimately the big drawback is that if there was, to your point, when someone's taking steroids, they're supplementing maybe 50 times or 20 times or whatever. What, what you are talking about here. So it's a different ballgame. But that one factor of if there's something else stimulating the production or if the testosterone is being replaced, then does that not hamper that individual's ability to produce it? Themselves.

No, absolutely. Anytime you introduce exogenous or outside testosterone, you know, your body recognizes it and it's a negative feedback loop. So what that means is if it recognizes testosterone is there, it'll say, okay, well I don't need anymore, and shut off its own natural reduction. And you know, for people that are on it for, for long periods of time, especially when they abuse it to, you know, the, let's say, the bodybuilder level, then it might be more difficult to basically re. Engage or restart their own natural testosterone production. So one of the worst things you could do is go on, let's say testosterone replacement therapy and just go cold turkey. That's one of the worst things you can do.

Okay.

You know, there's what we call post cycle therapy where you can at least, you know, reengage whatever you had left, so to speak. And it's not as much of a crash because, you know, you know, I've, I've been using, you know, testosterone for almost a decade, actually.

How old?

And I'm 42. 42, yeah. And I remember when I wasn't as consistent with it, I think I went like three weeks, you know, without a shot. And I remember just sitting down and I was like, kind of like moping around, kind of depressed. And then I was like, oh my God, I just felt off and I was like, oh, what's wrong? And then just like, oh, I hadn't taken a shot, so I literally took a shot and then, you know, then I felt better, like immediately. But it does really, you know, give you that, you know, general sense of well being, which is, which is great. And it does give you confidence in a sense. But if you just completely cold. Cold turkey. Yeah, that's one of the worst things you can do.

And if you were to. On both sides, what would be the drawbacks of continuing to supplement with testosterone for the. And I'm assuming, you know, you know your numbers, you know, how much you would want to supplement with, but what would be the drawbacks of continuing to supplement for the rest of your life? And what would be the drawbacks of not supplementing for the rest of your life?

Well, a lot of people say, oh, you know, it increases, let's say, heart attack and stroke risk. Right. With testosterone? Well, the reason why that occurs is because as your testosterone levels rise, it actually signals your bone marrow to create more red blood cells and hemoglobin, which in turn gives you more energy, gives you more oxygen carrying capacity, which is great. But you know, the, the downside of that is it increases your chromatic rate, which is the viscosity of your blood. And the more viscous your blood gets, you know, the more it gets more like motor oil and you know, because your heart has to pump that through your cardiovascular system, that's what increases, you know, your cardiovascular risk. So as long as you, you know, keep that, you know, in check, you know, where you donate blood every once in a while and again, everyone's going to be a little bit different. Where, you know, I have some, you know, some men that are genetically predisposed to very, very thick blood, they have to do it like almost every month where others may have to do it every quarter, every four months, every six months or maybe once a year. So, you know, every, everyone's going to be a little bit different there. But otherwise, I mean, you know, that that's really, you know, the main risk. You know, at the end of the day, as long as you're not abusing it, you're just optimizing your levels, then they really haven't been able to show that there are any deleterious effects other than obviously psa. So your testosterone levels, if they increase, can increase your prostate specific antigen, it can fuel cancers in that sense. But as long as you're constantly measuring that and staying on top of it and you know, obviously being smart with it, then yeah, you know, it's, it's really not, it's really not that big of a deal. You know, if you do it, you know, long term, you know, you just feel better and, you know, versus, you know, if you wanted to kind of live the rest of your life with, you know, fatigue, brain fog, low libido, the inability to, you know, to really build muscle, burn fat and you know, just kind of lose that drive, you know, because, you know, that that's kind of what drives us as men, that testosterone.

Yeah, very much so. And, and then at the same time having a. Because women often don't realize they have testosterone too. And, and that's, but they're not often looking to supplement with testosterone because they may not need that. They're usually looking to supplement with estrogen or you would know better than I would. But, but what about, I mean, there's two questions I have. One is, one is if someone's looking to increase their own testosterone naturally or for a woman, maybe they're looking. And I don't want to simplify so much because it's so much more complex than me just saying, oh, testosterone for a man and estrogen for a woman, it's not that there's so many other factors there, especially for women, but I'm just going to make it really simple. If someone. Let's start with a man, because it's the light switch. It's the easy one. If someone were to make it want to naturally increase their testosterone production, what would be maybe three things that they would do to naturally increase their testosterone production if they weren't either at an age or readiness or maybe they had a risk factor or something they didn't want to supplement?

You know, that's a very interesting question because, you know, I've been dealing with a lot of patients, young men before 30 that have lower testosterone than men in their 50s.

Wow.

1, 200, 1, 200, 250, you know, and I have some. Some guys in their 50s, 700. I have one guy that's 47, that's at 1400, which is crazy. And he doesn't. He doesn't supplement with any testosterone. That's just natural. But it's interesting because he's like, I've always been involved in. In, like, extreme sports, you know, so it's interesting to kind of see that play out in, you know, in a person's personality and hobby, so to speak.

Yeah.

And, you know, I have people ask me, you know, that question, like, how can I, you know, actually increase my testosterone? Well, you know, I think. And again, this is just a theory. The reason why these younger men are having such low testosterone is, you know, from, I think, diet to some degree. They're not lifting heavy. You know, actually weightlifting. Weightlifting obviously helps, especially when you're doing compound movements like squats and deadlifts. You know, that's. That's been shown clinically to help increase testosterone. Not obviously to optimize it, but it needs increased it, you know, to some degree. And, you know, I think, unfortunately, society as well, where, you know, again, men aren't men anymore, especially in the younger generations. So I think that's really playing a major issue, you know, in, you know, those, you know, young men's testosterone levels.

Yeah, it's one thing to, I mean, it's amazing to have men who are in touch with their feminine side, but to create a society without men being allowed to really be a man's man. I'm out. I'm in a space right now which is, you know, in the. Not remote, remote, but fairly remote north, probably pretty remote for what you would consider. You're in Florida right now. So. But, but it's interesting because, you know, from a societal standpoint, you do See the difference, because people who live here, men and women who live here, there's a different way of life. You cut your firewood, you often fish or hunt. So those are the types of things that are very closer to our primal makeup than sitting all day at a computer, which just does not serve our hormonal natural makeup. Right. So. And then have anything for a woman, what would you say if they were to try and increase it naturally? Because women right now, I went through a few years of just having a lot of women approach me about different things. And I would just keep hearing the same things over and over. Digestive issues, sleep issues, fatigue. I was just like, whoa. And Meanwhile, I'm almost 50 and feeling like I'm 20 to 30. But I know that what I'm doing is different than what most people do, women or men. So is there anything that you notice for women?

Well, again, this is what I call the three pillars of the time of youth. And again, this actually applies to men and women. The first pillar is testosterone. And like you mentioned before, men obviously have it at symptoms, significantly higher levels than women. But a lot of women I see are suboptimal in their testosterone levels. And, you know, that's, you know, one of the main reasons why they have fatigue as well. You know, again, if their testosterone's level are so low, it's not signaling the bone marrow to create the red blood cells of hemoglobin to carry oxygen. If you don't have the oxygen, then you're really not going to have much energy because 90% of your energy is derived directly from oxygen. So the more oxygen you carry in your blood, the more energy you have.

That and mitochondria.

Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I know women's hormones are a little bit different than men. You know, it may increase versus decrease, but, you know, their levels change, you know, from, you know, when they're younger and obviously more vibrant and more. More, you know, more fertile, so to speak, versus, you know, when they go into, you know, postmenopause. And then the second one is human growth hormone. You know, human growth hormone is obviously what we call, you know, it's what everyone knows is the founded youth, right? It's responsible for helping build muscle, helping burn fat. It helps to stimulate collagen reduction in the skin. It helps with sleep, helps with recovery. So then you can actually go harder the next day and recover faster. A lot of people have, you know, suboptimal human growth hormone levels, the ability to naturally increase that through, let's say, you know, the utilization of peptides such as Samorin, ipomorin, testamorelin and all the different peptides is a great way to naturally increase your human growth hormone production. And then the third pillar is nad. So I'm sure you've heard about nad. Plus, it's nicotinamide and dinucleotide. It's a cofactor in every single cell in our body. It's in every living organism. There's so many amazing health, wellness, anti aging and longevity benefits from its supplementation. Everything from lengthening your telomeres. So, you know, chronologically, you know, you know, let's say I'm 42. Biologically, if I lived a really, really good life, I could be, let's say 36. If I lived a really, really rough life, I could be, let's say 49.

Yeah.

And what this does, so, you know, by lengthening the telomeres, it allows for additional cell division. So the telomeres are basically the caps on your chromosomes. So, you know, the chromosomes like that X, right. So it's got the little cap on, on all four, or another way to think of it. It's like a shoelace. Right? So you got the little plastic or metal caps on the end. So every time your cell divides, it basically shaves off a piece of that cap and then eventually shaves all of it, and then it unravels and then that chromosome dies and the cell dies. But by allowing, you know, additional, by extending the telomere, you allow for additional cell division, which, you know, in turn leads to longer life. It also helps to boost your metabolism, helps to increase athletic performance, performance makes mitochondrial function more efficient, reduces inflammation, improves cognitive function, reduces Alzheimer's risk, and, you know, even helps those people that are dealing with substance abuse issues wean off of whatever they're addicted to. It's awesome. So, but all three of those decrease as you get older. So as long as you supplement with it. Right, and just replace, you know, the levels that you had when you were younger, you're going to feel tremendously better.

And what are your, what are your thoughts on nmm?

N, M, N. Yeah, So I get this all the time because, you know, again, Tony talks about nmn. You know, you hear about nr. So NMN is nicotinamide mononucleotide and NR is nicotinamide riboside. So both of those are precursors to nad. And the theory is by providing your body with the precursors, that it's going to convert into nad. But that's like saying, hey, if I give myself DHEA it's going to convert to testosterone. That's not the case. It may or may not. Now obviously, if you have, if you have a, a low level of the raw materials, then obviously it's going to help to some degree. But you know, if you actually look at the, you know, NR and NMN route, they took the supplement route. Okay. So here in the United States, you know, under dshea, which is the Dietary Supplement Health and Education act, there is no FDA oversight over any supplement whatsoever. As long as you don't claim anything. Like you don't say you cure disease, you know, that we absolutely do this. You can say whatever the heck you want.

Yeah, right.

You know, I mean, literally. And there's no third party testing. A lot of the times with athletes, right, they get popped or get in trouble because they took a supplement that they thought was unadulterated, that had actually natural testosterone in it, and then they lose their livelihood and they get suspended. Well, it's kind of the same thing with the supplements and with nad, it's, it's a prescription only. So, you know, our patients are prescribed it. Right. You know, and if you want to reach the masses, you go the supplement route. But it doesn't work as well.

Yeah.

So what we, you know, what we prescribe is the, you know, actual NAD plus. So, you know, I personally would rather go direct to the source than hope and pray that, you know, if I give something over here that eventually it's going to come this way. But, you know, I understand it from a marketing perspective, a sales perspective and just obviously a potential market perspective for them. So they, they can go over, they can go after everyone on the planet. Whereas, you know, we have to be more selective because we actually have to, you know, have a relationship with them, we have to have their labs, we have to prescribe it. So, so on and so forth. But yeah, I would any day. Any day. NAD versus NMN or nr.

Well, I'm really glad I asked that because people get caught up and they think that because there's a label on it and because it's in a bottle that it's going to be okay. And we just. I've gone through this for so many years with high performance athletes and just that you can't take that because it's not. Even if it has an NSA for sports or informed choice sticker on it, it's still not batch tested. So we'd have to get batch tested products that then would be clean. And then to your point about when it's for people to Kind of get the idea. It's. There's certain things that if they supplement with it's not going to help them unless they happen to be low in it. So creatine would be one of them. If they're low in it, it's not going to hurt them to take it. But if they're low in it, that's when they're going to see the benefits. It's one of the more efficacious supplements as well.

But.

But to your point on, you know, someone's taking testosterone and you mentioned just some of the precursors that are happening. And it made me think of. Made me think of, you know, testosterone and dopamine tend to be a little bit linked in terms of how they work with each other. And I don't understand it fully. That's not my area of expertise. But are there contraindications or certain medications that somebody should not have be taking testosterone or maybe estrogen or some sort of combination of hormone therapy if they're on some sort of drug, like, I'm thinking of something like Modafinil or any of the ADHD drug, or are there things that they just should steer clear of if they are? If there's just a contraindication there?

Well, yeah, obviously, if there's a contraindication, absolutely. And interestingly enough, you know, you speak about just pharmaceuticals in general. So when we talk about methylation in the beginning, one of the things that is determined genetically for us is our body's ability to metabolize pharmacokinetics, basically the pharmaceuticals that we ingest. So there's what we call pharmacokinetics and pharmacogenetics that actually determines how well you metabolize specific pharmaceuticals. So, for example, I'm working with a couple, he's about maybe like 240, and she's like a buck ten and, you know, she can take like four Advil. And he has a, you know, like a half the one. And, you know, it works for him. And you would think that, you know, you know, kind of counterintuitive, but because of his genetic makeup, you know, his ability to metabolize that ibuprofen is different from hers. So what may work for him may not work for her and vice versa. So, you know, it's amazing where we are in, I guess you can say in our times, the ability to just understand so much more about our body because we do have the ability to test and figure it out. Because, you know, our thing is, you know, once you understand the reason why, or once you are educated to what deficiencies you have, you could actually, you know, then improve it. Right. Because if you don't measure it, you can't improve it. And, you know, that's what all, you know, the diagnostic testing that we do is about, you know, to be able to understand the deficiencies, to understand what we're working with with regards to genetically. And from there, then we can make the necessarily the necessary improvements or adjustments to obviously feel our best. So.

So if, if someone, you know, I'm thinking of you, you have a company that specifically does this, but if someone is, whether they have access to your company or not, what would you recommend everybody to do? If they're over 35 and they want to have their optimal performance, they want to feel their best and have optimal health, so they're not willing to compromise their health, they want to feel their best. Is their first step to get their, like a full blood panel? What's their first step to really understand what their body needs?

Well, here's the problem. Even if you get a full blood panel, you're not going to understand how to interpret it. That's an issue. And then if you go to your doctor, they're going to say, oh, you're fine.

Yeah.

So, interestingly enough, I'm actually, I've actually developed a training course for the layperson. And, you know, right now, when we, you know, do our lab reviews with our patients, you know, just their lab, you know, just their blood lab reviews, we spend at least an hour to sometimes 90 minutes explaining each individual biomarker, how it correlates to a specific function in their body and how they're going to feel when they optimize it. Because our foundational philosophy is education, because there is such a disconnect between patient and provider. You know, here in the US they say the average interaction is 16 minutes between patient, provider. I call BS on that. I think it's more like five minutes. And then the doctor goes in the back and does paperwork for the insurance company for 11.

Yeah.

And you don't know what you're doing. Like, you have no idea. And when you, when they go through your labs, it's like, yep, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine, you're fine. And even if it's about to fall outside of the clinical reference range, it's like, oh, just come back when it's out.

Yeah. Because they're looking for the red flags that they need to actually pick up the problems they're not going to anything. Like if you're actually healthy and you're not going to fall apart, then away you go. They're not looking for optimal health or optimal performance. They're looking for what is there anything here I need to save your life?

What can we prescribe? Yeah, basically, what can you fix this? And we understood that there was that major disconnect and that's why a lot of people can't take control of their own health and wellness. They can't take accountability, responsibility for health and wellness because they have no idea where to start.

Yeah.

They don't understand the processes that are going in their body. And you know, I've spent years, you know, trying to figure this out where, you know, we took something extremely complex. You know, let's, you know, obviously the medical jargon, you know, the terminology, and we just tried to simplify it as much as possible so that a five year old can understand it.

Yeah.

Because then once you actually understand the process that's happening within the body and then we correlate it to, let's say, the specific part of the protocol that's going to address that, now you understand the why, but once you understand the why, then you're more apt to follow through. Because, you know, one of the things that you hear physicians complain about, providers complain about, is, is patient compliance. Will they actually follow through with what you prescribe them? But if they don't understand why they're doing it, you know, unless, you know, they're just following blindly, then, you know, people are going to have questions.

Yeah.

Or people are going to have doubts or concerns, but they may not. It's much easier to have an educated consumer in that sense. So then, you know, they can understand, you know, why they're doing it.

So is this training course that you've made, is it, is it available on your website? Is it ready or where, where are you at with it?

I'm still, I'm still developing it. Yes. Yeah. So, yeah, I've actually finished the, you know, the patient centric report. So if you ever had labs before, it's just basically, you know, your biomarkers, the result, the reference range and whatever unit it is. Right. It's. Unless you're a medical professional, you have no idea how to interpret that.

Yeah.

What we can do with those, we can upload it to our platform and then it'll split it up, spit out a very nice, beautiful report that is very visual. Red, yellow, green, tell you exactly what you need to work on immediately. And then it also explains you know, each individual biomarker as well. So, you know, it's a reference for, you know, the, you know, the conversations that we have. So then people actually, like I said, understand it more. But hopefully we'll finalize the course by the end of this year.

Amazing. Amazing. And I don't. I want to be sensitive to time here, just quick so that people can get a sense, because now we have a lot of information and now people are probably wondering about themselves. But what got you into all of this? You've been in a few other companies and you've got family members who are physicians, but you didn't go to school for hormone replacement therapy. You went to school for business and finance. And how did you end up down this path?

Well, interestingly enough, so I'm six two and I'm 196 right now. I used to be this height and about 35 when I was 13. So literally, you know, if there was a stiff wind, like, I'd either freeze to death or glow over. And, you know, I worked at a nutrition store when. When I was a teenager because I wanted to, you know, figure out what I could do to, you know, build muscle, you know, get lean, so on and so forth. So I literally read every page and what was it? Bill Phillips, Body for Life. You know, he was the founder of eas, so I memorized that. You know, I remember talking about creatine to people that would come in, you know, you know, ATP, you know, and it's just been a lifestyle one and, you know, that's kind of where it started. And, you know, through happenstance, you know, I worked in the pharmaceutical drug delivery technology space, so that's why I'm familiar with supplements and, you know, what happens with CGMP manufacturing. You know, I've actually developed a few formulations, you know, myself. And I also worked in the cannabis space and also was the chief operating officer of the company that Grant Cardone just purchased. And that's now a 10XL system. So, yeah, just kind of through, I guess you could say a circuitous route. But it was always like a lifestyle and a passion of mine.

Yeah.

So that's how, you know, I always wanted to, you know, kind of figure out how to hack my own body because, you know, I saw people that would be, you know, let's say, very muscular and lean and, you know, they would eat whatever they wanted to or. And, you know, they wouldn't work out much. Like, how in the world are they doing that? And, you know, it wasn't until, you Know, I really started digging in to understand how the body work because there's, you know, so many things that you can do to really minimize, let's say the negative impact of, let's say certain foods. Right. And you know, I still, I drink multiple times a week, you know, drink alcohol once a week, I eat desserts. But I just understand how, you know, or what I need to do to make sure I don't impact that. And I've only done cardio 10 times in the last year almost and you know, I still have around 10 body fat. It's just about understanding, you know, how the body works and you know, basically cheating, you know, cheating the genome.

Yeah. You've dialed in on exactly what your body needs for it to be the way that you want or the way that you feel the best. And that's where I feel like I've dialed in too. I know exactly what time I need to eat, whether I put this with that because just paying attention along the way and figuring it out and it's huge for people to have somebody in their back pocket to help them figure it out for themselves to too when they've kind of been going blindly through life toward their body but clearly focusing on other things, maybe their family or their career or whatever, but not having that awareness around what their body might need. So I think your services are really powerful to wrap up. Is there anything that, a message or anything that you would impart for people that you wish everyone knew or you wish the 30 year old version of you knew or all these people that you're seeing, you want them to know blank. What would that be?

Well, I think you have to be your own advocate in your own health and wellness journey. No one's going to do it for you. You know, the experts are there, so to speak. But again, what do they say? The teacher doesn't appear, you know, until the student's ready. So you know, when, when you're ready, you know, and you start really kind of digging for that information, you're going to find, you know, a treasure trove of information nowadays back then it wasn't as readily available but, but now it is and you also have to be careful of, you know, where you get that information from as well. You know, what do they talk about the bro science piece of it where it's like, oh, you know, just do this and yeah, you'll gain weight or whatever it is. You know, all the stuff that we do is, is based on, you know, clinical research. So you know, I don't put credence in anything unless it has peer reviewed, you know, studies or it's on NIH or whatever it may be. Yeah. Because again, there's so many people that. And again, if you research something and you're expecting a particular result, you're going to have confirmation bias no matter what.

Yeah.

So, you know, it's good to have, you know, multiple points of view and perspectives, you know, when especially, you know, you're looking at something as important as your health.

Yeah. And then figuring it out whether it actually is going to work for you or not, based on how your body responds and how you feel and step by step. So that's very powerful. So how can our listeners find you? You've got your, your website, which is www.forbpm.com, is that correct?

That's great.

Is there anywhere else that you, they can find you for? Reaching out?

LinkedIn. LinkedIn, you know, is where I'm at too. So just. Ben Lee, B e n l e2828 is, is my, my LinkedIn handle. And, you know, I also wanted to, to touch on. Remember we're talking about the charity and it took me a while to figure out, you know, who, who I wanted to support here. So, interestingly enough, you know, I spoke to, I met these two incredible women the other day. And the charity is called Elite Funds Freedom. And it's all about educating, you know, and empowering, you know, people to basically prevent sex trafficking and human exploitation. And, you know, they actually have a national hotline. And I love the number. It's 888-373-7888. So if you see anything happening that's not supposed to be happening, you know, call that number. You know, they'll, you know, they'll send somebody to go check out on it or, you know, whatever it may be. And, you know, obviously to support the group. You know, if you make a donation, let's say, you know, you make a donation and keep the receipt. You know, we'll, you know, we'll, we'll match whatever it is in a discount for whatever services that, you know, that you do through us.

So that's huge.

That's huge for the, the charity and obviously get healthy while doing it too.

That's amazing. So we really appreciate that and I really appreciate you drawing attention to that because it's something that we sometimes don't want to look at. So thank you for drawing attention to that and also providing that kind of option for people coming to see you. So.

Yeah, and I think the website is elite funds freedom.org or.yeah.org elitefundsfreedom.org E L I T E F U N D s f r e-e--o m.org beautiful.

And your website is for bpm.com and it's Ben Lee. So thank you so much for sharing your breadth of knowledge and wisdom with us and your own personal experience. Experience as well. I think it really helps answer a lot of things that people want to know that maybe they can't get from their doctor. They're confused by online and it just gives a little more insight and maybe confidence to make some different decisions for themselves. So thank you so much Ben Lee, and I look forward to staying in touch.

Yeah, same here. Thank you so much for having me.

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