Emilio Diez Barroso - Author, Investor, Entrepreneur

This is episode 203 of the Empowered Team podcast.

The Zenith is back. The most amazing retreat that really dives in to getting you to your next level physically, mentally, spiritually. We have leased out a five acre oceanfront gorgeous spot in Sayulita, Mexico and it is time for you to dive in and change your your life. And I don't mean there's anything wrong with your life. I mean up level, expand, make it what you really want. The Zenith is coming end of February this year. We'll tell you more. We just want you to know ahead of time, save the dates.

Welcome to the Empowered Team podcast where we explore how to optimize your performance in career, sport and life. And now your host, executive coach and life strategist, Kari Schneider.

Welcome. Welcome to the Empowered Team podcast. I feel so fortunate today to be here with Emilio Diaz Barroso who is the author of an incredible book called the Mystery of freedom is closer than you think. So Emilio, before we dive into the book, I want to welcome you and allow you to elaborate a little bit more about your background and what prompted you to do this very what is often as an author, a lengthy and challenging endeavor of writing a book. So what brought you to that? What in your background inspired that?

Thank you Gary. It's wonderful to be here and thank you for having me. The genesis of the book began in a lot of feedback I was getting from people I mentor. I have been doing a lot of one to one support for a long time and I realized that there were very common denominators in what people go through and I was repeating myself quite often and noticing these very recurring themes in where people struggled. And so I figured I'd write a book and share in a way that maybe reached more people. My background. I'm your typical A type. I guess the only untypical thing about me is that I already was born with everything I would have wanted from a socioeconomic perspective. I was born into a very privileged environment where finances and and comfort were abundant. And looking back, it should have been obvious from that early age that all my A type was not going to get me where I thought it was going to get me. Because I could see around me that even though people had incredible amounts of wealth and power and recognition, there was still this almost like sense of lack deep down when I could see through the cracks of those around me, whether it was my peers or my family, but nonetheless went on this A type journey and was committed to being the most successful, the most wealthy, the most recognized, the specialist of it. All and it was tiring, but I actually was good at it. So I succeeded in everything I committed myself to and made a lot of money and surrounded myself with people that were incredibly talented and then again started to see not only in them, but in me that all these milestones that I thought were going to do it weren't enough. And it was embarrassing and shameful and I would feel guilty for even second guessing my happiness because I had so much. And I could always compare myself with people that had so much less. And someone was like, who are you complain about anything when, when you've got it so figured out. And that was confusing. And then, and then entered spirituality. I grew up Catholic and so it was, it was an interesting shift. I went away from religion and then I ended up finding this interest in something deeper. And really, if I'm sincere, it stemmed from looking at enlightened people and seeing how appreciated they were or how special they looked. I was like, oh, I want. That's like the ultimate thing. Let me go for that. Because then I'll be the most special and I'll never be abandoned and everybody would want to look up to me.

And a type rears its head again.

Oh yeah, let's go full speed. And that's where it went, full speed. And I committed to. I probably, I've done over 40 silent retreats, week longs for 10 days and just really committed to that. And that was my life for a long time. And then obviously that didn't pan out exactly how my ego thought it would pan out, but it was wonderful.

Okay, first of all, I want to keep hearing more, but just what you've said so far is so powerful. We, a lot of our audience is achievers and they're people who are very growth minded and a lot of chasing is occurring and I felt this for myself as well. There's a lot of striving, a lot of chasing and it's the looking for or the belief that upon achieving that thing, then there will be this. Whether it's sense of fulfillment or relief or a different emotion that they've been feeling all along. Then upon achieving the thing or upon even going beyond what they ever thought was possible. I've seen this with Olympic gold medalists, I've seen this with CEOs who have taken their companies to zones that they never thought existed and sold companies and they've got this money that they always. That was beyond what they hoped for. And yet there's this lack as you described and the sense of lack were your words. So it, what you're describing to me sounds like you've continued to look, continued to explore, continued to discover rather what could be possible instead of just trying to make it happen yourself or believe your ego, which is perhaps egging you on to that next level for its own glory.

Yeah, yeah. I love how you frame it. And you can see with athletes and with everything, and it's tricky because we make the ego to be the bad guy. Right? And I love the ego. I love my ego. I think it's just very innocent in the way that it approaches things. And because it's, it's core intention is control, right? That's, that's what it wants. And if it gets control and safety, then, then it feels like it's going to be okay. It's, it's almost like that's, that's its mission. And the way it goes about doing that is through resistance. It resists everything. It's like a big no to, to things. And the way the tool that it uses is fear. Like so it uses fear to create resistance so that then there's a certain perceived control in what's going to happen. And this is like a little kid. I mean, it's just doing its best. And when I'm able to recognize those efforts for what they are, it creates a very different relationship with that sense of striving and seeking and wanting more. Because then it's not something I shouldn't be doing. Just like, like a kid that's discovering things, just, oh, let's, let's learn better ways to do it. And my, the challenge for me, I don't know if this was your experience, but growing into this sort of very highly achieved or high achieving mindset and high achieving crowds, I would hear this as a platitude. I would hear this like, oh no, it'll never be enough. And you'll, you know, everybody thinks they'll get there and, and I'd be like, yeah, yeah, I get it. And, and the reality is that I was somehow holding, like if I believe that, then I won't go for what I want. And it was set up in this weird binary dynamic where I was so invested in getting where I wanted to go that I would say, yes, I get it, it won't give it to me, but I still want to go and pursue it. And I'm all for going and pursuing, but what I've discovered is that I can pursue what I want and where I want to go from a place that's deeply rooted where I am now. And that makes all the difference. That deeply rooting, it almost feels like I was always on the tips of my feet and leaning forward and I was always just. I almost had to take the next step because otherwise I'd fall over. And there's a difference. As if you can just somatically feel landing on your soles of your feet, being fully planted and then taking that step from that place as opposed to because you're falling over.

Do you feel more planted now?

Absolutely. Something really big shifted in me when I went through these deep contemplation is that I started questioning all of my assumptions and I started coming up with a lot of identities that I had created because the, the identity of the entrepreneur or the CEO or the sort of most successful one amongst your peers or I would imagine of the Olympic athlete is a big one. And it's one that requires if my sense, when my sense of self is attached to that identity, then I become very invested in defending it. And the moment that there's a crack or it gets compromised, it flares up all sorts of insecurities. Sorry.

No, I know one.

No. Okay, I'll go. I said, because I grew up always sort of with eternal optimism as this overachiever, I never realized how insecure I was because I would never allow myself to slow down long enough to feel that insecurity. And I would always find someone around me that I could compare myself to that I would be like, no, no, I'm okay.

Using this relative comparison to someone else to measure the enoughness, if you will. And there's something you said before, and that feeling of almost falling over, needing to take that step, step. It reminded me of just a way of discovery that I utilize from time to time. And it's that it's the question of how does somebody know they're ready for growth, their next level, their expansion, whatever that is for them, and looking at it from a standpoint of when they're not trying to get away from where they currently are, when self doubt or not enoughness isn't the driver, when actually right where the now, the place, the being, wherever anyone is at the given time is absolutely perfect. It's all just fine, whatever it is, all the mess, all the whatever is just fine. That's when somebody's truly ready for growth. They're not trying to outrun or get away from what is there right now.

Yeah, I love how you frame that. It's beautiful. I relate to that so much. And the tricky thing, at least for my mind, is that I would Interpret that as saying, oh, that means that I can't have doubt and I need to be fully present and I need to be. And until all these things happen, yeah, then I'll be okay.

If this is.

Exactly, totally. And it sort of associates a state of perfection with its goal and whatever our perfection of the moment is, our flavor of the moment, and it can be. I need to feel totally enough. Right. And I need to feel that this moment is complete. And then again that's, that's beautiful as a byproduct. But when I'm trying to do that, then I'm operating from that perspective of oh, it's not complete right now. So let me figure out a future where it's complete. And what's been the invitation that I offer people is what if this moment exactly as it is, including with your resistance, including with your sense of not enoughness, what if this moment was exactly as it should be? Because the first step in that dynamic change for me is noticing the resistance. Even if that resistance is resistant to the resistance, it's like peeling it back. It's like, no, what does it feel like to be fully here? Even if fully here includes self doubt? Yeah. Because then I make, I make so much space for whatever is here. That, that, that, that example that I was drawing of the feet landing just happens. Then I'm fully here and sometimes it's very uncomfortable.

It's interesting that there's a. There's a concept that we work with a lot that has to do with really just not getting attached to a belief that we're supposed to be a certain way and not getting attached to the belief or the programming that we've perhaps grown up with, that we're supposed to be happy or we're supposed to be this or we're supposed to be that and really encompassing. If there was a circle encompassing that. Let's just say that our experience of the world or our experience of life is encompassed with 50, 50 of the positive and the negative. If we just embrace that, it's all going to be there, all of it's going to be there. That in and of itself is so freeing. Instead of doing this thing where what we do is we divide the circle in half and we see that oftentimes when somebody's experiencing the negative thing, maybe it's self doubt, maybe it's uncertainty. Then instead of actually being with it and seeing it and being okay with it, what we tend to do as humans is try and find a pleasure in order to not experience that negative feeling. And so then it is almost trying to trick us that oh, you're feeling a positive feeling with this overwork or with this over drinking or with this overeating or with this overindulging of whatever it is, tv, Netflix, binging, who knows. So we're. But what it's actually doing is creating a layer that gets us further away from the true feelings that we actually are craving. And we're getting ourselves farther away from it instead of, instead of being able to embrace that it's all just part of it. And instead of trying to false pleasure ourselves, then just by being with that negative feeling and just being part of the experience, we actually are closer to greater fulfillment or greater happiness or greater presence or whatever the things we're craving because we don't know how to get there.

Yeah, totally. And it goes back to what we were originally saying of this egoic drive, which is really. It functions in a push pull relationship. If we find something desirable, we're trying to maintain it forever. If we find something undesirable, we try to push it down and avoid it. And it always keeps us in this state of the control tower that has an opinion about everything that's going on. And what's crazy is that no matter how often we're shown that everything is impermanent, we still believe that somehow there'll be a place when we'll be happy enough, when we'll. And I love inviting because challenges big assumptions of what you were just saying we're supposed to be happier. I ponder with the idea that happiness doesn't really exist outside of our stories because when we are happy, we're not saying we're not actually feeling oh, we're so happy, we're just happy, right? We're in the moment. And happiness is really only occurring when we are thinking back of that was that was so happy. When we're actually in it, it's almost like we stop needing an interpreter of the moment. And it's almost like we have this layer between us and life that includes all of our opinions about life. And almost like we have an intermediary that is telling us a narrating of so this is this, I like this, I don't like this, I want more of this, I want less of. And this is good, this is bad. But when we're truly in, whether we want to call it flow or joy or whatever it is, it almost feels like this layer in between us and life is thin. And the commentary stops. And then after the moment, the commentary, there's band widens up again and say, oh, that was a really good moment. I should try and get there again. What did I do to make that happen? Let me go again. And. But that's more of this band in between.

Yeah, it's.

It's fascinating. And the same with negative emotions. This. The depth of this band of. I don't like this. I want to get away from it.

Yeah.

Because if we actually close that band, even with negative Emotions. Yeah. And what I use is my body for that because my mind stays in the past or the future, but my body is very here. So like, what does Something very undesirable. For me, feeling jealous was really undesirable. And I remember having these sensations of jealousy growing up Mexican and sort of all this macho person. Just so recipe for a lot of opportunities. And I would have such an adverse relationship with it. My band with jealousy, this intermediary band was so wide. And then at one point, just out of sheer fatigue, I think this band started getting smaller and I was able to feel jealousy directly in my body. And it's been the most liberating experience I've probably had, amongst the most liberating experiences I've ever had. Because this enemy that I had always related to as the ultimate thing to avoid all of a sudden lost all its power over me. How.

On that note, What some of my experience has shown me is that a number of men. And I don't want to stereotype or pigeonhole men, that's for sure, but especially men who are. Who perceive that they're supposed to be a certain way, find it more challenging to do what you just described, which is actually feel the emotion in their body versus define the thing like a. I've found that many men have. Don't have as much of the vocabulary to describe what they're experiencing. It presents itself in a way of being instead of a way to articulate. Then if they are given the opportunity to articulate what they're feeling where it is, it can be challenging for them to actually. Dig deeper to feel the feeling in their body, if you will. So has that been the case for you prior to this? And can you describe that a little more? Because I think that for men, being able to get to that space of connecting their thoughts or their stories, because that's often perceived as fact. What I'm thinking is fact. Instead of separating to realize that this is a thought or several thoughts or several thoughts repeated turning into beliefs. So oftentimes it's perceived as fact. And then being able to connect those that entity that's coming from the neck and above to the neck and below. I know that that's kind of a convoluted, I'm thinking at the same time, but what is that experience like for you as a man?

Yeah, thank you for asking that. And I hear two things. One is how is it as a man to sort of connect the sensations that are normally in the head to the body. And then the second one, which I also want to touch on is the distinction between our thoughts and reality. And let me start with sort of the masculine one. I guess masculine is not. Male is the more appropriate term probably. I, that's part of the reason why I wrote this book because a lot of the people that I was reading books about were not people that were running large businesses and having three kids and being. I'm on 13 boards, I'm really active. I was like, yeah, I get that freedom and peace exists for the guru in the mountain or the person that's dedicated to be a teacher, but what about the guy that's really managing sort of day to day chaos, right? And similarly, I get it for the women that is trained and being sort of somatically attuned to her body and. But, but you know, a guy that grew up as the guy's guy who sort of, it was all about chasing the girl and getting the car, you know, how does that, how does that match up? And I remember when I, when I first was asked, how does this feel? I would always go to thoughts I would never. And there's like, no, no. How does it feel in the body? I'm like, well, it feels good, it feels bad. It feels like, no, no, actually. And the invitation was like, where's the energy? And I remember almost like, I don't know if you can recall when you're first asked to flex your biceps and you're like, I can't even, I didn't even know there's a muscle there. I don't know how to flex. It is like that explosion, like where is that? And inviting a discovery of where the energy is. Because I think we all have a sense of the contraction. And for most people it's throat, chest for gut, right? And it's like, what? So just let's. And most men, for some reason my experience is the gut, but that may not be the case for everyone. It's like, what does that actually feel like if it's just an energy and slowing it down and the tendency will be to go back to the head and is reinviting Back to the gut. Back to the gut. And. And. And the. If we just perceive that energy. And the way I like to guide mostly men through it is I start inviting them to see what. What shape does it take? Is it. Is it vibrating? Is it still? Does it have a color? Give me the size. And then they start getting really curious with it and start discovering all the ways in which the body speaks. And this sounded so foreign to me at first. And through these baby steps now, I feel so attuned to all the ways in which this dialogue is continuously happening. Yeah, it's almost like this magic tool that I didn't know even existed. And I do see a lot of guys struggle with it.

It's so powerful to hear you deliver that as your experience as a man discovering that. And for me, it's really powerful because I'm very aware that as a coach and having coached a lot of men and a lot of women, I'm very aware that sometimes the person I'm coaching has a hard time receiving from me. Meaning I think that you being able to describe that is something that may be easier for some men to receive and understand when they can hear it through your experience. So I think that that's really powerful, and thank you for sharing that, because I think it will help a lot of people be okay with discovering something different than what they currently understand.

Yeah. Thank you for that. And I think part of the first step for me is normalizing. It's normalizing how okay it is to have no sense of what someone's talking about. And it's like, I can't relate, and I've been there. It's like, I hear you and I get it, but I just don't. And the easy answer to that is just to distract. And it's like, just let it go over. And what I invite people to do when they don't get it is really interesting. It's like. Then I say, okay, what does not getting it feel like? It's like this right here invitation. And some. And sometimes it's just like, I can see how they pull back with that question. It's like, okay, let's feel into that pulling back. And it's this continuous invitation into the body. And it can be uncomfortable when you're not used to doing that. The head is a safer space. And going to the second question, the head is a place where we can navigate and create our own sort of sub realities. And oftentimes those realities are not necessarily good. They're actually oftentimes quite disturbing. Right There's a lot of negative self talk and stuff, but we're in control and we kind of know and we've learned to be okay with this way of relating to our thinking. And for me, this questioning of my thinking, there was a question that really broke it for me. And it was, what do I know to be true to such a degree that I would bet my loved one's life on it.

Wow.

And I would just see my daughter and I started exploring everything I thought and I was like, it really raised the bar. And it's like, okay, well, all these things that I sort of think most of them didn't pass the mustard because it was, I really don't know. And then I don't know. I've done, I've been drunk, I've done plant medicine. I've done all these things where I know what my sort of, where my mind goes and I know and I'm like, if I can be altered that quickly with my thinking, I'm not going to bet my loved one's life. And the fact that right now I'm supposed to be in the factual state that this is the reality.

I love that it's so powerful. I think of Byron Katie's work in terms of just starting with is this true? And you've taken that kind of baseline of really making it poignant for yourself, because is this true might not cut it for you, but is this true? And I don't have your exact words, but do I know this to be true that I would bet my daughter's life on it is the kind of thing that for you makes it really real. Okay, up the ante, make it so that you really have to vet it against something that's most valuable or so powerful for you in your life. And that's really neat. And to put the substance, some substances in there as well, it's so true. We allow ourselves or we are so affected by a cloudy day, a drink of alcohol, someone else's comment, and it doesn't take much for us to then at the, at any little thing like that that's passing to change our way of thinking, to change our thought, to change. And it's, it's this fickle brain that just wants to go, oh, react to that, respond to this, react to that. And it's, it's, it's a lower level than what we're capable of unless we've actually practiced pausing the ongoing dialogue or narrative that's in there of words and thoughts and stories and that's just continually Streaming.

It really is. It's incredible. I love. I love Katie's work. I mean, she's very dear to my heart and. And I think it is about slowing down. Right. And it almost brings me back to meditation because I. I would relate to meditation very similarly than what we were just exploring with the body. People say, no, you should meditate. Like, okay, I should meditate. I'm going to meditate. I have to meditate. Yeah, totally. I would hate it.

If I meditate, then I'll get there.

That's right. That's right. Let me meditate. So then I'll be much better at everything and super special and feel good about myself. And meditation, the way I related to it was if this, then that. Totally. And also it was like, oh, it must be a space where I'm not thinking. It must be a space that looks like this. And like that. Like that Buddha that I see in these images, or that monk over there. And back to that layer between me and life, right? There was meditation. There was me, and there was this big layer that said how my meditation was gone. It's going terribly. I'm thinking a lot. I shouldn't be thinking, oh, I've been caught in that thought for the last seven minutes. And the meditation, it's all this narrative that happens. Yeah, totally. And then it was like, what if. At one point I said, what if my meditation was a. A bubble bath and each one of these thoughts was a bubble? And my only task was to notice the bubble and just pop it and pop it and pop it. And there were bubbles that were very convincing. I said, no, let me stick with this bubble, because this bubble has something really special to share and I'll forget it. After meditation, I would follow the bubble and put any. Eventually, I would catch myself and pop the bubble. And what was critical was not considering a bath full of bubbles in meditation as a good meditation or a bad meditation. And it changed my relationship with my mind where. Because really, ultimately, whether it's a meditation or in life, it's only the mind that wants to stop. The mind, it's just more thinking. The idea that we're thinking too much is just more another idea. And I'm a big fan. What's been most helpful for me in all of these is the pulling the rug strategy. And the pulling the rug strategy is literally just stopping it right here. This. This dynamic of continuing to believe a thought about another thought. And this stopping is scary, right? It's like popping that bubble. We've been trained not to stop. We've been trained to go or positively.

Reinforced by outcomes or other people.

Yeah, yeah. And I think part of what is trickiest is that we are not comfortable with stability. We are not comfortable with status quo. And it's back to that, those centered feet. We think that if we really look at it from a purely rational perspective, happiness or any other sensation only registered as the difference between this moment and a previous moment or a future moment. So it's always this delta. Yeah. So then happiness as a constant cannot exist because then you have nothing to compare it to. And it's only a change in that state that creates that sense of rush or even sense of construct contraction. And I know that when I'm in a state for too long, I get antsy, I get anxious. Something needs to change and that's this. Almost like this. I think they call it the hedonistic treadmill of.

Hedonic treadmill.

Hedonic treadmill, yeah. It's this constant looking for change, which is great. I think it's part of that thing that's kept us alive for so long.

Part of our physiology.

Yeah. And it's how we've survived as a species. But when that's our entire energetic investment, it's incredibly draining. And more importantly, it's a fuel that is not self sustained. Yes. It's a fuel that really takes a toll on the system.

In my experience, it feeds the. One of the first things that you said, which is the sense of lack.

Yeah.

Because it's not. It goes back to what I hear Tony Robbins say sometimes. It's the science of achievement, which is that continual drive. If it used to be many, many eons ago, if it used to be seeking water, that's part of our dopamine drive is to keep going. It's the motivation molecule per se. But then there's the art of fulfillment. And the art of fulfillment isn't when the water is found, it's not when the thing has happened. The art of fulfillment is exactly what you've been elaborating on, which is the piece of just the way it is. The peace and presence of just the way it is. There was something recently, you mentioned the meditation, something recently that someone said. And I just have pondered it since then. This has been a few weeks. And it's that. Love is the most powerful form of meditation. Because if there's truly that space of love, then all time disappears. There's no real sense of anything. It is this, this form of meditation that is. Is away from all the thoughts, away from the Must do or the. The ticking clock or whatever that urgency is. And. And I've just been pondering that in different ways, and it just. It's a really neat concept.

I think it really. I love that you're touching on this. It really is. And how I like to think of that is that instead of it being something that I need to create, because if this is always a forward movement, it's the implication that this moment is not complete. Right. So I need to be more loved so that. Then I do this, so that it's all of this. I need to be more present. I need to. And for me, the invitation is always like, just a step back. Like, can I notice the love that is already here? Instead of trying to be present, can I notice the presence that's here Currently becomes much more of an invitation, of an awareness of what's here as opposed to a protagonist that's now going to create an experience.

It's interesting because it's. It's. I don't want to diminish anything that you've said, but it's almost wordsmithing to create because the I need to find love or I need to be this way for blank or versus the can I notice. It's. It's so subtle and so powerful and shifts everything with our own perception. And we can create that. We can create those. Those shifts with our words.

Yeah. It really is almost like the way I say something slowing down long enough for life to catch up. And it's all really right here. And I think when I. When I think of, oh, I'm going to go and become present, I'm approaching presence as if it was a fixed state, but it's not. It's not a. There's nothing is a fixed state. This impermanent thing that's always. And I love how you frame time, right. Because I'm a very mental guy. And so when I would hear this spiritual teachings, I'd be like, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Almost like the same approach that I would have when I was sort of moving away from religion is that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay, I get it. Whatever. But let me. Show me, show me. Like, let's get real here. And. And so I used my mind to get really meticulous in exploring some of these concepts. And one of those big concepts was time. And because that. That sort of slowing down or that noticing included, for me, noticing where I was spending most of my energy. And if. And if we slow things down enough, it's not a stretch to recognize that the past is Just a memory, right? And then the future doesn't really exist. And we're so. I always say, so there's only the present. But then I said, well, let's look at the present. What is the present? And I was like, well, if the present is right, this, right now, and I'm slow and I'm really noticing, it's not even this, because whatever I'm noticing right now is already being perceived through my senses and processed through my brain. It's already slightly in the past. So this. This present as a thing, this now as a thing that I need to capture and now be in the now is this sort of strange way in which we try to capture something that's uncapturable.

Well, I think of that and I think of it as. And that now is so influenced by what we perceive as the future and what happened.

Oh, sorry, you just froze a little bit.

Oh, I was just going to say our now is still so influenced by what we perceive as coming in the future and what just happened in the past. And at the same time, it's so subjective to everything that. Our experience versus someone else's is a completely different version of the present or now, because it's our definition of it versus the next person.

Yeah, we're carrying all this conditioning, right? All this software. And part of what I talk about in the book is our operating system. And I talk about it because a lot of the people that I work with are in the tech space. And it's like, you know, we're constantly trying to disrupt industries, but how often do we try to really disrupt ourselves, disrupt this sense of me, this thing that we base our entire reality around? It's like a software that hasn't been updated in a very long time. And we're carrying programming that was the equivalent of sort of the old mainframe computers. And we're now operating in a reality that doesn't really match that. So what are some of those lines of code that need revisiting?

Well, this concept of time, this concept of the programming that's come in, it makes me think of what you mentioned early on, because there's curiosity for me, and so I'm sure there's curiosity for some of the listeners about your silent retreats. So for those of us who haven't been. I've been on various types of retreats, but not necessarily one that's emphasis emphasized as a silent retreat. So can you describe to our listeners what is that? What did it entail? What was it like for you then? If you've been on 40 of them. I'm going to take a guess that especially because you're actively disrupting your own thinking, actively disrupting your code. I imagine that retreat number two was very different than retreat number 30. And can you just expand on some of that a little bit?

Yes, yes. It's like it. Sometimes it's like walking on glass, and sometimes it's pleasant and most of the times it's awful. But. And this is where I, you know, go back to the ego and the love for the ego and the appreciation for it, because it's madness. If I hadn't had the drive to get enlightened because I was so insecure, I would have never committed that much energy and attention to. Really drove me to say, okay, I'm going to do whatever it takes. And most of that was muscling through it, certainly the early retreats, but what happens after? If you're anything like me and you're addicted to your phone, and this was back when I wasn't as addicted because the phones weren't at school, but if you're anything like me, where you're checking your phone and the idea of just even putting our phones away and then the idea of not having sort of interactions and dialogues with people, that seemed daunting. But what I wasn't aware was going to be even more daunting was not doing anything because I'm a very active guy. I go to the gym, I play sports. I'm always sort of engaging. And all of a sudden it's like, no, nothing, no distractions for this monkey mind to go and say, okay, what's going to happen next is this. This is what I'm going to go do now. And that was sort of the beginning of the. Where after two or three days being in that state. And it's not all the time, but that was sort of a correlation. The noise starts sort of fading. Someone's like that refrigerator that's running in the background that all of a sudden stops and like, oh, wow, I didn't even know that was running. And it's so quiet now. And there's this sense of quietness that allows for clear seeing of all the stuff that I had been running away from, all the sensations. It almost.

It almost sounds deeply meditative. And at the same time, there's this curiosity from my brain that is, well, so were you with a bunch of other people? And did you have to sit in one spot? And there's these little questions popping up because I'm like picturing you Monk, like sitting in a room. But then I'm like, well, are there other people there? Is that distracting? Does it take longer to get to that day three where you're, you know, so. Which is my brain just going off. So what was it like?

Every one of them is different. But there's normally the ones that I've attended, there's. There's larger groups of people, and it can be anywhere from 20 to 300. And it's all set up in such a way where it's as. As non. You need to engage your mind as little as necessary. You don't need to plan. There's a schedule, there's meals, there's times, there's bells. So everything is happening at a certain time, and you're just being sort of herded around in a way where you're not having to be planning to the degree that by day five, I'm like, I get to brush my teeth. This is so exciting. I get to have any ownership over what I do, but it's the mind looking for, like, what do I do? Where do I commit my attention to? And you don't interact with anyone because people are. You know, the invitation, at least the ones I've been to, is that you're not really even making eye contact. Because it's this. This need to be a protagonist sort of exerts itself in the slightest of ways even. It's like a little wink or a little, like, smile that's a certain way. There's like, all these ways, and it's like, let me. Let me. Let me say what this moment should look like.

Yes. Yes.

And I'll tell you the. I think. I hope that deep down, I think all of us have something that is calling us. And some of us may pay more attention to it than some others. But there's something deep inside, I think everyone I've connected with that knows there's a deeper something at play here, that knows that the way that we've been running our lives, if we really examined it, it's a little mad. And we've all probably experienced moments of deep awe or wonder or flow. And, you know, meditation doesn't have to be for everyone. I've met some people that are artists that are just getting to that state when they're painting or they're doing something, and they're like. And I think the description that we will all give for those moments is that this little sense of me became thinner and that the distance between us and life seemed to disappear for a moment. And that this experience of life as one event happening was almost like a somatic, like a real. It wasn't a concept, it was like a knowing. And that may be when we see a. We all have our versions of that, but I think we've touched on it oftentimes in childhood. We touch them more often. But my invitation is that that's not a state to achieve, but that that's our natural state.

It's something that we have been trained out of.

Yes.

I glance this way because I can see trees. And for me, it easily. Nature.

Yes.

The quickest or the most frequent that I can have that sense is in nature.

Yes, yes, I love that. Me as well. And I think that's the case for a lot of people. Some people, it's even music or, you know, or intense activities. And as an athlete, I think, you know, when you've done a lot of intense work, there's that moment after the workout where it just like. Oh, it was like this hum of life, this vibration of the heartbeat of everything is palpable. And I, I thought that was reserved for that monk in the past that had that live like that is my life today. So I think I'm here to dispel all these myths of what has to happen or what the conditions that need to be present for that to exist in anyone's reality.

When you say that, I have a sense that a lot of achievers would naturally start to go, okay, well, give me the hacks, you know, get me there faster. Well, that's, that's the goal. And because I've been there, I've been. And I dabble in that mind and that, that programming. I dabble in that programming every day. And I get to experience what you're describing every day too. It, it is quite literally the. Where my existence is toying with. From a physical and spiritual and from a mental and. And a mind and a heart connection. It's. It's like this shifting thing on a constant. And I don't think I've heard someone describe it the way you have. So it comes back to, well, my achiever mind. And many of the people who would listen would quite literally go, well, so if I use that thought or if I use that question or if I. She said get in nature. So if I get in nature three times a week, is that the prescription? Because that seems to be how our society is being trained right now, is to look for hacks, to look for the recipe, to look for the exact formula. And I can't count the number of Times I'm iterating that you are a you, and the you that you are is different than a whole bunch of other yous. And so you're going to have to trial and error this to start to figure it out because there isn't a perfect formula. I find myself saying things like that to encourage people to discover for themselves what is there for themselves versus trying to replicate something that isn't them.

I love that you bring it back to that because this is all so personal. So, and, and I think we all loop around in this. I would see when I was religious, I would see Jesus, or I would see Buddha, or I would see the teachers that I was going through. It's like, no, it needs to look like that. And I think that's where dogma is born. Right? So no, I need to wear that kind of clothes. I need to not have sex. I need to eat like this. I need to. And these are all. It's very innocent. There are all these ways in which we're like, okay, give me, give me something to shoot for. And all this hacking and all this. I'm in favor of all of that because ultimately, whatever. There is so much fuel in the desire to get somewhere that I say, don't waste it, use it. Run as much as, as fast as you can. Ultimately, the greatest gifts for me happen in the exhaustion. So get exhausted. Be clear with what you want. Because if, and, and really the invitation is. I remember there was a definition of discipline that I loved, which was remembering what's important. If you get clear with what's important to you, if truly awakening is important to you and you set it as the most important thing in your life, then whatever it is that will exhaust you in that direction. Most likely all the things that you think will get you there won't get you there, but they'll get you to a place where you'll just be like long enough. It's similar to the exploration when I, when I. When I think of the universe and my mind starts thinking, well, how big is it? And how. And there's a point where the mind is like, I don't even know where to grab, what to do. That's the perfect spot.

Yeah.

And the challenge is that we, we don't hang there. That mental exhaustion or that physical exhaustion, we are not used to staying there. But the invitation is just be there. And it can happen many times during the day. It can happen once a month, however long it happens. Just being that exhaustion, because it's really a slowing down and that's where the noticing happens.

It sounds like a surrendering, and it also sounds like a surrendering of not having to know.

Yeah.

And in describing that, it reminds me of some of the times that have been the most challenging for me and may have prompted some sort of either confusion or breakdown. And that's where either the lesson is learned or the breakthrough happens or the memory is there because it brings together the heart, the physical body, the head. It brings everything together. Because the brain can't keep trying to run the show.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. It's. Those moments are such gifts that I often overlooked. And it's okay when we overlook them, but it's just retraining to sort of notice. And that's why I love the body. Because even in those. Really, if there's something that listeners can stay with is even in those moments of confusion or frustration or embarrassment or whatever these sensations are here, just like, what do they feel like in the body? Can we drop in to see what. What that is actually like right now? Because that's the gateway into this. And because anything else is just a thought. Anything else is like, well, I'm going to do that. I'm going to go there. I'm going to be more this. And they just keep this. This hamster wheel happening. There's. There's a great Zen image of. Of a man with a stick in his head. And there's the price in the front and there's a bag of shit in the back, and there's this. And that's so much of our lives. It's like, can we get there when the price will be enough? And can we avoid whatever our shit is so that we're sort of not stinky? And yet there's an unsurmountable amount of shit available? And we know that no matter how many prizes we get, it's never going to be. There's always going to be a new price. And what I'm inviting in the exhaustion, it's almost like an allowing of that bag of shit to hit me. And for me, that bag of shit was mostly feeling not good enough. And it's like, what does it feel like if I fully allowed myself to feel not good enough? Because I was really good at avoiding it. I was really good at convincing myself and others that I was so good, But I was imprisoned by this desire to avoid it? Like, what would it be like to actually really let it be here and.

Being okay with truly being okay with being perceived some way that you don't want to be perceived?

Yeah. And Being okay with not being okay with how you're perceived. Yeah, because then it becomes a new ideal. The new ideal is, oh, I need to be okay with being perceived this way. But what if the okayness was just a step back? Being okay with the part of us that's not okay with it. It's almost like this parenting of all those parts of us that we've been telling for so long, you shouldn't exist. You should feel this way, you shouldn't feel this way. You should be more confident. You shouldn't care what people think. All those shoulds are so contracting to our system. What if it was just one layer back of like, oh, I'm okay with all of these parts.

And I haven't touched on this very much in terms of coming from a background of financial abundance and wealth. And you've gone through what sounds like quite the journey to have the discoveries and the experience that you do of life right now. What, at this point, what do you find that you struggle with now? Is there a fear that you have? Is there a struggle that you have that keeps coming up now that you're like, well, what's this?

So many. And yet what's different is that they don't have any power over me.

Mm.

There's no longer someone's like, there's no longer a me that is experiencing all these things. So now a fear or a is just seen as one more of those bubbles. And now these bubbles because I trained myself to pop them to often, or maybe not, because for whatever reason, they don't really have any substance to them. So it's like an open space, like the sky, and there's these clouds, and I'm no longer associated a good day with a day that's cloudless.

This is, I think, so powerful for people to receive and hear. Because I imagine that when someone listens, sometimes people would. Sometimes we as humans have the thoughts like, oh, I wish I could be like him, or, oh, maybe I can do the work to get there. But I think it's important for people to hear that there, wherever they think there is, of course the fears are still there. Of course the struggles are still there. Because I think that's one of the big fallacies that our brain tells us is that, oh, when we get to that place, I won't have an emotion like fear or overwhelm or anxiety or the things that come up with a lot of people in leadership roles or achieving mindsets. And for you to say, hey, the fears are there, the struggles are there. I'VE got lots of them and they don't have power over me. And I'm going to add a line here that you didn't say, because this is my perception. And it's because they just are what they are. It's. I can create the meaning of what they are or not.

Yeah, yeah. They're just life.

Yeah.

And. And when I'm not invested in saying what is okay and what is not okay in life, when that sort of narrow or wide narrative intermediary between me and life is thin, when I am one with all these experiences, then fear and struggle and anxiety, they just have a life of their own. They just. It's literally like energy. It almost. I'm gonna see something super crude, but it's almost like a burp and it just. You just like burp. And I had this idea that once I got there, I would never burp. No, no, no. The perfect guide never burps.

Yeah, yeah.

And it's been so liberated. And I had this with enlightenment and I would meet people that I would perceive this enlightened that were sitting on this very guru like. And I think, oh, they never experienced anything like this. And until I never experienced anything, then I won't be. I won't be free. And the freedom is not a freedom to not experience these things. The freedom is the freedom to experience all of it. And the reality is that now these sensations, whether it's fear or whatever arises, has a very short life in my system because I'm not trying to manage around it. I noticed what was locking it in place was my resistance.

Yeah. It's interesting because.

I.

This is quite some time ago, I made a commitment to release, making myself wrong, making my husband wrong, making other situations, people or circumstances wrong to release that. And since that point, it's really powerful because it's not like wrong making doesn't come up. Of course it does, but that's the point. Now. It's not a thing that there's attachment to and then wrong making about the wrong making. And then it's just, oh, I was going to make this situation wrong and now I see that and okay, there it is and there it went. And it's a different experience that there's going to still be wrongmaking. Just because I released it doesn't mean that it's never ever going to happen. And at the same time, it's just so much easier to recognize, be okay with and acknowledge and make a choice. Oh, okay, that doesn't need to happen. I don't need to Spend my energy on that.

Such a obvious and novel concept for us, isn't it? I don't know if I used to blame it on my upbringing in Mexican Catholicism of this idea that if I didn't hold on to feeling guilty or shameful or I didn't hold someone else as the perpetrator as wrong, then things would never change.

Yes, it's a tool like, no, no.

Yeah, it's like. And I was so convinced, this is one of these programs that I really had to explore. Like, I was so convinced that if I actually forgave myself or someone else or let it go that then they would continue happening over and over and over again. And I actually ran experiments with this because I was like, well let me try it out for myself. I'm a data guy. And it's like. And then to notice and to actually be held myself accountable, it's like, oh, this week I'm going to pay attention to every time. I'm going to let go of the self judgment and the judgment of others and see if things is so illuminating to realize. Oh, and so much energy gets freed up. It's like I actually don't need to hold on to this. Yeah, it's fascinating.

It is very fascinating. And it's something that I hope that this conversation allows people to explore themselves in a way that can open something up. Maybe just shift a paradigm shift a perspective in some form or another. So I think that's really powerful. Well, I want to give you the opportunity to let people know I'm going to make an assumption here because I truthfully haven't had a chance to read your book. I've been out of town for the last couple weeks so I am excited to dive into it. What are you hoping for from this book? The mystery of you Freedom is closer than you think. What are you really hoping for?

I'm hoping that someone that is postponing their sense of well being and inner freedom and peace reads it and realizes that that's not necessary. That they take it as an invitation and as permission to be totally okay where they are and to use it as a roadmap potentially to explore what things are serving them, what things are not, and to take it as deep as they want. Because this book goes all the way to questioning your sense of me. And the books proceeds are going to a foundation that develops curriculum for well being for children. So that's the intention.

Yeah, that's what I was going to ask because I knew there was some charitable causes around it and I wanted to. So it goes to developing. Say that again.

So there's a foundation called contentment.org contentment.org beautiful. Yeah.

And how can people find you? Where, where would you. Are you on Instagram?

A little more.

Where's your favorite place to hang out that people can look for you?

Oh, that's a great question because that's pushing all my edges. I have an Instagram account that I'm going to start developing more. It's edsbarroso and the book will be available June 7th on Amazon.

Okay, June 7th. That's fantastic. That's coming up fast. And one more question here for you, for your if you had a message that you could give your maybe your 20 year old self or some version of yourself in the past that your now self can give this message to your past 20 year old self or whatever the age is, what would that message be?

Could be a great sort of subtle just messaging of it's all okay. It's all okay. Your ambition is okay. Your drive, your sense of comparing yourself to others, your insecurities. It's all okay. There's room for all of that and it's not necessary.

That's beautiful. Well, I'm so grateful that we've had this opportunity to connect and share and I'm so grateful that you've put something out like your work, the book that you've created to the world because I can see this really making a difference for a lot of people. So thank you, Emilio for being with us and I can't wait to chat further soon.

Thank you so much, so much for having me. And thank you for what you do.

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