EP11 Courtney Birchard - Hockey - Olympian

This is the Empowered athlete podcast, episode 11.

Get ready for our next athlete. This is Courtney Burchard. You might know her as Courtney Kessel, women's national team hockey player. That's her background and she's now a coach. How did she transition from high performance, the top level of women's hockey and get into coaching? What was that like? Was there an aha moment? Was it easy?

Was it tough?

Also, where did she come from? Her background is incredible in sport and also all sorts of different sports. Hear from Courtney Burchard Kessel. I'm so excited to dive into this interview.

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I am thrilled to bring you some big, big, big news for 2019. It is the 1230 challenge. What am I even talking about? 1230 challenge? Kari, please explain.

Well, it's big news for us anyway. 1230 challenge is 12 as in 12 months of the year and 30 as in 30 day challenges.

Yeah.

So we are gonna do 1230 day challenges throughout 2019. And it started as the most innocent thing, like, hey, let's do a 30 day challenge in January. And then, you know, of course my wheels were turning and I had to keep going with that.

Surprise, surprise. So how is it going to work? Well, you need to join our community so you can find out what the challenges are each month. Because we're not going to tell you what they all are now. No siree Bob. No. We are going to keep it a secret so that each month and around the 20th of each month, we'll be telling you what's coming up for the following month. So you get about 10 days to get yourself ready for that next challenge.

Keep in mind, you can do all 12 of them with us or you can do just one or two or whatever. Opt in, opt out, whatever you choose, that's okay. And they'll all stretch you and grow you.

So, Kari, people need to know, what is the first challenge going to be?

Well, the first one is no meat. So we aren't going to have any meat. And the reason this came about is because we wanted to stretch and grow ourselves in our ability to choose recipes that were meat free and be interesting and be tasty and be good for the family and all that good stuff. So that's the first one. And the ones coming up are amazing.

Okay, so after I've stuffed myself with turkey over the holidays, we're shutting down the meat for the first month. But then we've got all kinds of cool challenges in all areas of our life. Really. This isn't just about eliminating food or something like that. We're going to be making the environment better. We're going to be making our lives better. Communication and communication.

Communication with relationships and other people. So every challenge is unique. It's seasonal. There's reasons why we've chosen them.

Okay, so, Kari, the most important thing, how do people join our community and follow along in the challenges and get our daily updates and find out what's happening.

So all we want is people to have the support by doing it with us. And what you can do is email paul@pdpowerconditioning.com to opt in or you can look for us on our Facebook community Empowered Top Performers. And it's a private group, so you're gonna have to request admission and you can join our community and there's no catch. It's free. There's nothing we want from anyone. It's just if you want to have support in trying challenges in 2019, then we are with you because we are doing it to up level our lives. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life. And Paul Duarten, former national and professional volleyball player.

Hello, everyone and welcome to another edition of the Empowered Athlete podcast. Joining us today is one of Canada's hockey greats. We've got Courtney Burchard Kessel joining us. And Kari, you had the chance to work with Courtney a little bit when she was with the national team, but she is really know now as a coach in the hockey world. And we're going to be talking about her playing career, her coaching career, the transition and everything in between. Courtney, welcome to the show.

Hi thanks for having me.

We're so happy to have you on. Take us back. You. You've been playing hockey for a really long time, and I know now it's a different story, but you played for a really long time. What. What got you started? And what did that look like?

Yeah, I kind of grew up in a hockey family, so when I was about seven, we were playing a road hockey game at Christmas and one of my uncles was like, to my mom, you got to get her in hockey. So the winner came around and there I was, signed up, seven years old, played pike in Malton and couldn't stop.

But had you. Had you skated before seven years old, though?

To be honest, I'm sure I did some Friday night open ice stuff.

Yeah, yeah.

Just in my skate.

Yeah. Yeah.

So, yeah, there I was, but I couldn't stop, so. But things got better.

You're slamming into the boards, basically.

Yeah, just, you know, like the Mighty Duck guy that can't stop.

So that's where the equip. That's where the equipment really helps.

Exactly. So, yeah, so I played Tyke there in Balton and then I went on to the girls side for two years and then I went to guys hockey. And do you want me to tell you my whole.

So, well, so at that time when.

You, when you went over to guys hockey, that's because there wasn't enough available for girls hockey at the time or why did you switch over to guys hockey? Because you were better than what was available. What was the catalyst there?

I'm not really sure. I was a pretty physical player, so my mom thought that I could manage playing on the boys side. And I think, yeah, back then the thought was, well, if you play boys hockey, you're going to be a better hockey player. And like you said, I don't think the girls game was where it's at to this day.

Yeah. Yeah. You just didn't have as much opportunity for development. And there probably weren't enough girl players at the time either.

Yeah, I think it's grown tremendously, obviously, since I was seven, so.

And how. How old were you then when you.

Went to the boys?

I was nine, I believe.

Okay. Okay.

Yeah.

So take us on.

Yeah. So then I joined the Mississauga Braves and I met some of my best friends playing boys hockey. And I actually, one year, the Mississauga Chiefs asked me to play girls hockey. So I played for two teams. I played for the Mississauga Chiefs and the Mississauga Braves, and I also played competitive soccer. So my schedule Was pretty heavy, but enjoying it, of course.

Holy cow.

And that's so much travel, too. Not only the equipment, the fees. I mean, we're coming from having our kids in competitive sport, and only one of them's in hockey right now. But between the competitive traveling, like, holy cow.

Yeah. And actually my dad drives trucks, so he's on the road quite a bit. So me, my mom, and my sister, we spent a lot of time together in the car and traveling around from rink to rink and soccer field to soccer field, but I was enjoying it. I mean, it was. It was great, so I can't complain. And so then I played boys hockey for a bunch of years, up until I was. I went to grade nine, and then I made the transition back to the girls side and I played for the Toronto Arrows. So I think the transition was just the size. You know, at the end of the year, the boys are the same size as you, and by the time September comes around, they're six feet tall now. So my mom was like, okay, I.

Think time to change.

And it's funny because I'm actually a pretty. I'm tall. I'm 5, almost 5, 10 now. But I didn't grow until I was in grade 12. So in grade nine, I. My nickname was Shorty.

Yeah.

So looking at those boys, my mom was like, it's time. You haven't grown an inch, so we're gonna go back to the girls side.

Did you love all sports? I know in high school you were playing hockey, soccer.

Yeah, I did.

You're doing everything.

I did everything. I played badminton, flag football, volleyball, everything. Any sport that was there, I played it.

And were your.

Were you okay in school too, academically, or was it.

Yeah, I spent my lunch doing homework, and sometimes my badminton practice were at 6 in the morning, so I'd be up early, get to school, do my classes, do my homework at lunch, and then if I didn't have anything right after school, I would get home right away, do my homework, or I'd be doing my homework in the car. But definitely school was still a priority for my mom.

Do you find, like, I. I notice with a lot of university athletes that I work with that they almost perform better when they are in season, in school versus when the season ends, simply because they. They're so structured and they know they have to watch every bit of time that they have in order to study, that they end up becoming a little. A little lost when the season's done and they're not. Do you think that part of, like, your Busyness helped you?

Yeah, definitely. Like, I know even now, like, when I'm. When I'm coaching the younger ages, like, you have to prioritize your time. And that was what my mom always said, you know, you have to prioritize your time whether you're playing with your friends or. Or doing your sports at school or outside school. But, you know, you have to prioritize and get your homework done. And so, yeah, just like you're saying, I think, you know, especially when I was in university, when I. When the hockey season was done, you kind of just lag on your. On your schoolwork because you have so much time, so you don't know what to do with it, and then you're just cramming because you didn't. You didn't. You've never had that time.

Yeah, yeah.

You don't know what.

Yeah, it's. It's just.

And the other side of things, though.

Too, and this is what we talk.

With a lot of different athletes on, is that they're not really. They're not a lot of other hobbies or social outlets or things like that, because their whole. For most athletes, their whole identity or their whole focus is tied up with their team or their sport or then maybe with school, but then there's not, you know, some other hobby or some other distraction that. Because there was never time for it like this. Other distractions that they might learn about themselves. Oh, I really like to, I don't know, do photography or, you know, who knows what.

Yeah, there's just no time for it.

Right, right. To even get to know some of the other things that you might like in. In the world.

Yeah, exactly. Like my sister, she's so crafty, and I feel like there has to be some craft in me, but I just can't find it. It's probably because I didn't have time, you know?

Yeah, you just didn't, like, find the interest or develop those things.

Exactly.

Nice. Okay, so take us on. So you were around this time you're in high school, and what were. I mean, the opportunities for women's hockey at that point must have been relatively limited. What was it like for you?

Yeah, I think I found out about Ontario, like the Ontario team and the Ontario hockey side of things in grade 10. And then. And then university opportunities started to blossom, and it was like, oh, well, I can go to the States and I can go to school for free. So I started studying for the sat and. But I didn't go on my visits until I was in grade 12. Which nowadays kids is late.

Yeah, they've committed, they committed it in.

Grade 11, grade nine now. And it's crazy. How are you committing? Like, I knew. I know. So I, anyway, I went through my, my high school, my four years and my goal was, you know, study for that sat, pass that sat and then hopefully the opportunity will present itself. And so I went to visit a few schools and I just fell in love with University of New Hampshire. But I'm in grade 12 and I'm, I'm like, mom, I'm going to be a phys ed teacher. So I, I know that they have my course and rink is awesome and, and so I just don't understand how kids these days choose their NCAA schools in grade nine when they pass.

No, there's no, there's no way. Like our, our oldest is, she's playing soccer at a Canadian university, but she's, she's in school first year university and doesn't know what she wants to do.

Yeah.

So you know, like how, how do you know when you're 15 or 14 years old? So. Yeah, I mean some, some do, but it's so rare.

Yeah. And it makes me wonder, you know, we see people, you know, that are just so unhappy when they do get there. It's like. Well, I think it's because you've committed so early.

Yeah.

And that early commitment also becomes their defining experience. The kids in some way feel locked to that path. In grade nine they've decided they're a hockey player and you know, they might try another sport or something non sporting that appeals to them but can't pursue it in a way that really pulls out if it's something for them because they've committed to that hockey path so young.

Yeah. And it's funny you say that because I, well, I was really high in soccer and I had some national tryouts for soccer when I was, I think when I was in grade 10 I started and I had all these opportunities for hockey and I had all these opportunities for soccer and it, and I didn't decide until after my grade 11 year that, okay, you know what, I'm going to go play hockey.

Yeah. Yeah.

But like you said, you know, they don't have these opportunities and I'm really lucky that I, that I stuck to it and I played both sports because I think that like they talk about today, growing the full athlete and I really think that that developed me into one of the best hockey players by being an athlete, multi sport.

Oh, for sure. Well, that's one of the things in the U18 women's national team camps is, is this diversity of abilities and sports and things like that. And what we noticed over the years, I mean, I haven't worked with Hockey Canada for a few years, but when I was working with them, we were noticing that over the years, the new players coming in each year would have less and less and less ability in other movement patterns, other sports, other, you know, any of that, because they're just specializing, specializing or the. The parents, you know, figure more is better, and so they do more of that one sport or, you know, and. And then on the other side of things, maybe the parents are acting a bit out of fear when they agree to have their kid commit in grade nine or grade 10 because they're worried that, well, if we. If we don't commit, then we might lose that opportunity or, you know, what if kind of thing.

Yeah. And I think the scheduling these days is crazy for sports. Like, I remember I used to practice twice a week and then I'd play on the weekend. But now people are playing game. You know, they're playing hockey all year round, or they pick the team in April and then they're playing exhibition games. Like, what are you playing exhibition games for? And as a coach, when I first stepped into the. Like into the minor league, I was like, what? Why are we doing this? Well, because everyone else is doing this. I'm like, who cares? Yeah. No, we are not doing this.

I was just gonna ask your opinion on that as a coach now because. Because it's like this more is better mentality is insane. And at the same time, like, you understand being at a national level, that you know how much it takes to get there. But most of these kids, they're not at that level yet. They're still at a developmental level. So more isn't going to get them there, but quality is going to get them there.

Right.

And it's a different way of looking at it. But then you've got that fear again of, well, but I see that team doing it or that team doing it. So if we're not doing it, we're going to be behind. And that's a mentality that comes from, you know, feeling like you're behind somebody else or you're not doing well enough, or whatever. Yeah.

And that, that fight as a coach. Well, at the minor level, it happens with the parent. Not the fight, but the, you know, the.

Yeah, the conflict.

Yeah. And it's just. But I. I think for me, it. It's a little bit easier to deflect that. Because they're like, oh, well, she's been.

You've been there, right? Yeah.

So I. And I find that, like, parents are very respectful of that. And all I have to say is like, listen, this. I'm telling you, we don't need to be playing a hundred games or we don't need to be practicing four times a week. Like, yeah, relax. The problem. It's a problem.

It's relieving for them.

Oh, my gosh.

And they're like, it's relieving for us.

To hear you say that, because I wish more coaches were saying that.

Yeah. And it was happening even at the beginning of this year. Like, we hadn't played in five tournaments before the end of September. And I'm like, well, look, we already have two injuries. Like, if we were in a tournament this weekend, we'd be playing with two lines, and then we'd be coming out with one line because more players would be getting injured. And then for sure. And then they sit back and they're like, oh, yeah, I guess. And now we're finally into our league games and. And things are going and we have a full roster. And I think they're like, you know, maybe you were right. And I'm like, maybe I was. Do you.

Do you think some of the parents, though, like, they're living vicariously through their kids and that's why they're so intense on this? Like, do you think that's what it is for some of them or.

Yeah, definitely. I mean, I'm not a parent yet, but I can relate. My mom, she was very high pressure on me to just. You. You want your kid to be the best and to excel, and you see all these opportunities and you. You want them to do the best. Like, no parent doesn't. So I think that kind of takes over and they. They get lost in chasing the dream with their kids.

So let's. Before we go into the parenting and all the good stuff that way, let's go back again. You were committed to university. You're excited about that. What was that whole transition like for you? What did that mean for you at that time?

So I moved off, and I was terrified because I'm a homebody, and I spent so many hours with my mom traveling around from rank to rank. And so the. That adjustment was really hard. I was homesick for sure. Crying and just, you know, missing home because it's so different. And you're like, now you're in university, you're taking university classes. Some of these girls on your team are four years older than you, and they're just at a. They're at another place in their life, and you're just a little freshman, and it's all scary, and you just want to go home and you just want to play on your junior hockey team again and have your junior hockey coach back because he's nicer and your university coach doesn't care about you. Yeah, it was definitely. It was a battle. And actually, my freshman year, I almost quit hockey. Yeah, I was. My mom was looking up schools for me to go play soccer, and it was crazy. In December, I was really.

What was.

I was gonna.

What was the hardest part?

What was the hardest part for you in that. That made it the worst experience for you?

Well, the coaches at university, they're not your friend. They're not there to, you know, ask you how. Like, I mean, they do ask you how your day was, but it's different. You like. And especially like, the Toronto Arrows, they have great coaching, and it's like, he was like another dad to me. He would ask me about my day. He cared about me.

He.

You could tell.

There was just that constant communication where you get to university and there's none. And so that's scary, too. And you're alone, right? And you can't be like, hey, mom, can you call the coach? Like, now it's on you. So that's a big adjustment, too.

Did you. Do you find that true, talking to other players, played NCAA schools, that. That's a consistent environment, or was it more specific to the Wildcats?

I think it's a bit of both. Like, I definitely think it was. That's just the way my coach ran his team. But I know there's others out there, and it. But it's not everyone, so. And I do think it's getting better because there's more women coaching, and women are just better at doing that kind of thing, and it's just more relatable. You're both women, so it's easy. So I think it's getting better, but I definitely do think it's still out there. But, yeah, so it was quite the adjustment. And come December, I was, you know, ready to quit. And then I made the under 22 national team, and I was going to Germany at the end of. End of the month, so that kind of switched my switch.

So that was the.

That was the thing that was the catalyst that kept you. Kept you in it because you knew you needed that. That high competitive level of university to keep you where you needed to be for the U22s.

Yeah. And also, like, I really loved my. My major. Like, my professor was amazing. I. I, like, I said I knew I wanted to be a gym teacher, and so I love. I love my courses. I love the people in my. In my classes. So that was a huge thing, too. Like, I would always tell my mom, but I don't want to leave because I really love my major and I love my professor, and, like. And that's a big thing. Like, this is what you're gonna do for the rest of your life, you know, so.

Or so you think at the time, Right?

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so that was another tie, too, to keep me there. But at the end of the day, it was the call from the under 22 team.

And then what did that. Was that your first experience with Hockey Canada?

Yeah, that was the first time I made the team because there wasn't U18 when I. I was too old.

Yeah.

So that was my first one. Yeah, I'd been to camp, but then I went to the Esso Cup, I guess it's called now.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And was that a huge eye opener for you? What was that? That. What was. What were the differences between playing with the U22 team versus. Versus NCAA? Like, what. What did it look like for you?

Yeah, I mean, the hockey's amazing. And then I have, you know, Shannon Zabadows, Megan Augusta. Yeah, they were, you know, they were still around. And, yeah, it was like, wow, this is this crazy. But I actually went in with an injury, and that was like. The coach was like, hey, you know, you can't play with your injury. And I was just, like, crying, like, why not? I can tough it out, and I can do that. But at the end of the day, obviously, they made the right. The right call by sitting here, but, yeah, it was. It was amazing. You know, first time to be in Europe and away again from my family and. And join all these amazing hockey players.

Yeah, that's huge.

And take us further from there.

What.

What happened after that?

So I went back to school. We actually went to the frozen four that year, my freshman year, and we ended up losing in the semis. But at the end of it, I was just not having it. I still wanted to quit hockey, and I just wasn't enjoying it.

Do you think you were depressed at that time?

Yeah, I guess so. Now that I think back to it, I was definitely not happy. Yeah, but, you know, you go through the summer and you're like, okay, it's a new year. It's a fresh start. And things definitely did get better. And I think the culture in the room was better with the team, so that always helped. I think that that's half the battle in women's hockey is the culture that's in that change room. And if the girls get along, then it makes your experience so much different. So sophomore year was good. We weren't great. We had a short bench. Then my junior year, it was going really well. I was up for top 10. Patty Kaz. And then I got hit and fractured my L3, L4 transverse process in my back. And that was the end of my season. And that was in February.

Ah, yeah.

Right before playoff.

And how did.

How did you deal with.

How did you deal with that?

That was. It was really tough. I couldn't. I could barely walk for two weeks. So I was on, like, really high meds. And my boyfriend at the time is now my husband, so he would carry me, you know, to the bathroom and help me. And I just basically laid in bed for two weeks because I was in so much pain.

Yeah.

And I don't. I don't even remember two weeks of my life like I was. And then, yeah, it was. It was a slow recovery, but just doctor's appointments and tons and tons of physio and started, you know, just walking in the pool and then transition to the bike. And I remember getting on the bike for my first time and I tried to just do like a one minute sprint and got off the bike, sat in front of it and started crying. And I was like, I can't do this. Like, there's no way I'm gonna get back. There's no way.

Like, because it just felt so bad.

Just. Yeah, like, I was just in so much pain. Like, it was, you know, obviously, when you hurt your back, everything's so tight, like your hips and. Yeah, just. And I was just like defeated, kind of, you know, like, I can't. There's no way.

So what I know throughout my career, anytime I had a serious injury or a setback, I was focused on my career. I was loving it, you know, So I was driven to get back and get back to my best again. But, you know, throughout this conversation already, you said how you've kind of wavered with hockey, how you were entertaining thoughts of quitting. What pulled you through a massive injury like that? Because in my mind, if you're on the fence about playing at times and then something like that injury happens, how do you get the drive to get back? Because coming back from injury, when you're completely motivated and fired up can be so hard. But for you to do it with the kind of background that you had the years prior, what was your focus mentally on? What got you through?

I think, like, one of the biggest things about me is that I'm like, I'm a huge team player. Like, and I. I knew that the team wanted me to be back and. And that they needed me to be back to hopefully push to get to the Frozen Four. And we were in playoffs, and we were going to the top eight against Minnesota Duluth. And so my. My thought process was like, I can play, I can play kind of thing. So I kept pushing and pushing and pushing, and my mom calls me and she's like, you're not playing, are you? Like, because there's no chance that I should have been playing. It was, like, not. I think it maybe was not even a month after I had broke my back. And she's like, I swear to God, like, I'll fly to Minnesota Duluth to make sure you don't get on that ice. Like. And I'm just like, you know, no, I'm not playing. But if we win and we go to the Frozen Four, like, I'm playing, nothing's stopping me. So I really think that that's what drove me to push through all that pain and just to move forward with the progress of my physio and stuff. And I really think it was my team. I just wanted to be better for my team. I wanted to be there for my team to help them succeed.

That's that thing that I think a lot of players don't realize when they're in. It is such a large driving factor, is being a part of something that's larger than your. And especially when you transition to national team, then all of a sudden, the thing that's larger than yourself isn't just representing your team or your university. It's now your country.

Yeah, exactly.

And it's the kind of thing that is this huge drive that's so much more than just your own ability and your own success. It's that being a part of something so much bigger.

Exactly.

So how.

What.

What.

What did it look like for you then progressing through the ranks of the national team?

So then six months after I broke my back, I was here at the MasterCard in Toronto trying out for the under 22 team, and I made it. And then from there, I went to the. The. The Esso cup in Germany. And actually that September, I got my first tryout with the national team. Yeah. Following the six. And I didn't make the team, but I made the under 22 team.

And did that, did that not make the, that not making it, did that make you want to work harder?

Yeah, definitely. Every time I had a setback, it only motivated me more. Like never once was my thought, like, oh, okay, well, I'll. I'll just quit or.

Yeah.

I was always motivated to do better and to prove something wrong.

Yeah.

So I went. Yeah. So I went to work at school and made the under 22 team and then tried out again the following year in September of 2011, and I made my first Four nations team. So that was, that was really exciting. Yeah, it was in Newfoundland. We sold out. Gold medal game.

Nice.

So, you know, you can always get that crowd, but that was the first time really playing in front of a sold out crowd wearing the hockey in, In Canada.

Yeah, in Canada.

That's huge.

Yeah. And we won. That was amazing. And then I, I didn't make worlds until 2012 when it was in Vermont. And I think it's so it's hard to relate to. Like, I wanted, I don't even know how to word this. You know, I sat on the bench for the entire 60 minutes of the world, the world championship game and we, we won gold. And I wish I could say that I was happy, but I wasn't. But now that I look back, like, I really wish that I just embraced the moment of being able to stand on that bench. And I think for younger athletes, like, that's what they need to do. Like, like just take a second and stop thinking about yourself and look around at where you are and who you're playing for and, and the opportunity that's ahead of you instead of being pissed and selfish because you're not on the ice.

But, but it's, it takes something to admit that, that you, you weren't happy and you were busy probably feeling sorry for yourself at the time.

Yeah.

And, and that's a, that's part of kind of how we tick as human beings, but B, it's that, you know, I remember leading into the 2014 Olympics, just the, one of the biggest messages that Hockey Canada was really trying to get across with the sports psychologist and whatnot was knowing your role.

Yeah.

Know your role with the team and you know, everybody has a role and it still contributes to this overall machine that is a team that wins, even if it doesn't mean that you are doing what you really, really want to be doing. Yeah, but, but it's, it's tough and it depends on maturity levels. It depends on how much experience somebody has and especially for the young players, like, that's a tough pill to swallow.

Definitely. And like, I, I didn't realize it until I stepped back, until I, you know, gave up hockey really. Because it like that happened time and time again and. And I think it happens all the time at all ages. So I think that would be one big learning point when I look back on my career is just to be more thankful for where you are and what, what you're. The opportunity that you're given. But anyway, we won gold and moved on. And then I made the next world championships. We were in Ottawa, which was amazing because we're back in Canada and we're in the final game and this crowd's going crazy. It's packed. And unfortunately we fell short to the US that year in the final. But it was such an amazing experience. I knew I was being centralized for the Olympics, so.

Which is a big deal.

Yeah. And everything seemed to be falling in place and all the hard work and everything was, you know, it was paying off. So that's always rewarding when, you know, all your hard work is going toward, you know, good time. Good time spent.

Yeah.

So, yeah, I moved to Calgary in the August of 2013 and off I was trying out for the Olympic.

Which is like, it's almost. It almost sounds bizarre to hear you say it, you know, like it went at the time. It's almost surreal.

Yeah.

Because it's such a big deal.

Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of crazy, like you said to say it out loud. Yeah, yeah. The year was. I'd love to say it was the best year of my life, but it was probably the worst year of my life. It's hell.

Oh, my gosh.

And nothing is surviving four years. It's still the worst year of my life.

Yeah. Yeah.

You know.

Okay, tell us, what were the, you know, what were the worst things? What were the low points? What was it for you?

We had two, two hour practices a day from August to December. Plus we played I don't know how many 60 games in six months on top of training before we're playing. And it's a grind and then, you know, injuries and playing through them or sitting out. But now you're giving up your spot and. Yeah, so I battled injuries the entire centralized year. Like we got there.

Groins or hip flexors.

Yeah, my groin. August 1st, we got there and at the end of August I had a pulled groin. So. And from there on I just came back for my groin and then I hyperextended my elbow and. And then my groin. Those just, like, just a mental grind for me the entire time.

Yeah.

And then, I mean, two days before Christmas, I got cut, and they said I was going to be an alternate. So I flew home and had Christmas with my family, and everyone was. Everyone. I think the hardest part was seeing, like, your family be so sad and upset and, you know, like, they're not disappointed in you, they're just disappointed because the hype the whole year, you know, they're. As I'm preparing for the Olympics, so Are they. Right. They're getting their flights and they're. They're booking their hotels and. And so I think that that was the. The hardest thing. And at that time, for me, it was okay, you need to be the strong one because your family's hurting. So. So that's the role I took on, which is. It's funny. Like, not funny, but now when I look back, it's. It's crazy that. That I did that. I don't know how I did it, but I didn't shed a tear the entire time I was home. So.

Do you think that year I was just.

Let me ask. I gotta ask you, though. My mo. My entire life is, if there's a problem or anything emotional, I'm going to just stuff it.

Yeah.

So for you, it sounds like you pulled the pole there and just. Yeah, I'm not upset about this. No tears. I mean, it's. It's absolutely devastating.

Yeah.

You just described going through, you know, months of hell and training and pain, for one thing, and then to not get it. When. When did you actually deal with it? Then you're for yourself.

I think that's the biggest thing. I don't think I ever did deal with it.

I understand that.

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah. Like, you know, every time I got cut, it was just like, all right, put a brave face on and go back to work. And don't show anyone, like, how hurt you are or you have to be strong. Like, so.

It'S. It's a badge of honor that is. That almost bites you back at the same time, because then you're in this pattern of dealing with things for the rest of your life that then it's like, okay, well, then I just work and I'm the same way, you know, for different things and different reasons, overcoming different things. But then it's just, okay, well, if I work harder or if I keep myself really busy or if I focus on these things, then I won't feel how awful that thing felt.

Exactly.

And I won't truly deal with it. But then you almost find that you're continually running from anything that ever bothers you, instead of either confronting it or letting it pass through so that you truly feel like you have dealt with it or overcome it or learned from it or whatever. But, but we get rewarded for that, right? We get rewarded for being the strong one or not breaking down or, you know, and then ultimately it comes out in some form or another later on. There's either, there's a build up. Our bodies all have a threshold. Our bodies are going to tell us at some point or another via migraines or injuries or chronic fatigue or depression, or our bodies are going to tell us some way or another that, hey, you know, remember that thing you didn't deal with or that other thing or that other thing or that other thing.

You didn't deal with.

And then suddenly we break down either physically or we get sick or whatever it is. And if we were, if we were supported, I think, or helped or had the tools, I should say, to deal with some of these emotional transitions, then we probably wouldn't be managing other things, say two years to 10 years down the road.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And it's now, I've been coaching for nine years since I've been out of school and some of the young kids are now off and they're trying out for the national team. And I get calls all the time from them and it's, you know, they're frustrated because of this and that. And I was just talking to one of the girls, she was 12 when I met her. She had her first national camp and she got hit in practice and had a concussion, so she couldn't play any of the games. And so she called me and I said, and I said to her, it's okay to cry. Like, it's okay. And she just started bawling.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I, I think like, like you said, you know, my, my career, I, I bottled it up and I just put on a brave face. But I, I know that at the end of the day it affected me long term, like you were saying. So, so that's why, like, for me, it's so rewarding to be able to give back and.

Yeah.

To have these girls call me and to be able to tell them, like, hey, come here, cry because I know you want to. Yeah, you know.

Yeah.

And yeah, like they put on this brave face and then I see myself in their position and I'm like, they're, they're just putting on that brave face, like yeah, so, yeah, so, yeah.

And at the same time, you know, we've got these national programs and they're there for a reason. They're there to create the best in the sport in the country. And what players don't realize, especially when you're talking about some of your early on coaches versus your university versus national team, it's a different beast. And yeah, I can't tell you how many athletes I've had to say to them because they're complaining about, they might, might be complaining about how they're treated at the national level or things that happened or things like that. And one of the things I end up saying is that you are there as a commodity for the team. It's not that they don't care, it's just that it's not their job to care about whether you have friends, when you have to move across the country to centralize, whether you, you know what I mean? That's up to you. And so I spend a bit of time trying to coach people to say, hey, if, if you decide to do this, say it's centralization, say it's whatever going with a national team or trying to make a certain team, if they make that decision, it's that player's decision. And if that player chooses to do that, that's what gives them the power. And going, okay, I chose this. So then when it's really miserable and it's two a days plus traveling, plus this, plus that, they have to remember that, okay, I chose this. Nobody forced me to do this. I chose this. And then they, then they can take the power back in also deciding that if it's not for them, it's not for them. But the problem comes in and that typically that sport has been their life for so many years that if they even consider the option of stepping away, they start to feel like they've let.

Down their family who put so many hours like failure. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And instead of, instead of taking ownership of going, okay, this is my own choice.

Because they're not old enough or mature enough or have enough experience of making their own decisions. Because one of the prime jobs of an athlete is to be coachable.

Yeah.

And so in saying, okay, I'm going to do this for me, well, that just doesn't exist, you know, other than trying to eat right and get the right sleep and, you know, perform as an athlete. So, yeah, I totally think that there's, I don't know if there, there needs.

To be education or something along the way so that athletes start to.

Start.

To ask themselves the question of, yeah, is this.

Is this still making me happy?

Yeah. And I.

And what makes me happy?

Yeah. And for me, I definitely went through that, like, but I never asked myself if I was happy. It was just. You're so focused on that dream that you get lost, and, like, you said, quit. Just stepping back. Well, that failure. And I feel like athletes that do make the national Team, you know, you're there because you don't accept failure, because you push through all the obstacles that. That everyone else couldn't make it through. So I definitely faced that. I call. Actually, after I was released from the 2014. The next year, I went to September camp for the four nations, and then I got my feedback, and basically, all I could read was, you're terrible at hockey. You're terrible. You should quit. You're terrible. But it wasn't saying that at all, right?

No, it's all the metrics. It's all the numbers and testing numbers and whatnot.

And so I called a friend who had been to the Olympics and had won a gold medal, and. And I said, you know, like, I don't know if. If this is what I want to do. I just. I don't know anymore. And she was like, well, why are you doing it? And I was like, because I want. I want an Olympic medal. I want to go to the Olympics. Like, that's my dream. And she said to me, do you know where my gold medal is? It's in the bottom of my closet. And I'm a successful woman right now, not because of that gold medal.

Mm.

And I think at the time, I couldn't. I couldn't be like, yeah, you know, you're right. I'm so unhappy. Like, this isn't it. But now when I think back to that conversation, I think, like, wow, it's so true. You know, like, I was just so unhappy. But I continued to battle until this past Olympics, when I was. When I was released, and I finally said, like, I. That's it. I'm done. I can't. I'm just so unhappy. So.

Yeah. Yeah.

So.

So tell us what that transition, then, the realization of where you're at. How did you make your next moves? How did. Yeah, so how did life evolve for you then?

So I got engaged, and heading into the. Before they centralized the group, I was on the short list. And I said, like. I said to myself, like, all right, if you don't get centralized, like, it's time to move on with your life, get married, you know, because my husband And I live across the country from each other, and we have since university because he's a hockey player, and. But when we left university, we were like, okay, like, we're. We're both gonna chase our dreams, and we'll have the rest of our lives together. So we knew that. But that never helped any situation.

But anyway, I was like, long distance is so hard. We've been there. Yeah.

And so I was like, all right. So I. You know, I was like, blake, if I don't get centralized, like, if you want to go play in Europe, I'll come with you. Like, let's do this together. So I got the call, and I didn't get centralized. And.

Did you feel relieved?

I couldn't have felt more relieved in my life.

Oh, my gosh. Isn't that telling? That's so telling.

Like, I didn't shed a tear. I was like, okay, thanks. And I called, you know, my mom and I called some of my best friends, and they were like, are you okay? And I was like, yes. Like, I'm. I. And I went. And, like, I told Blake, and. And Blake was crying for me, and I was like, no. Like, this is good. Like, I didn't have to quit because they did it for me, and I. That's what I was waiting for.

And that's authentic, right? That's an authentic. You're not stuffing anything at this point. That's. That's real.

Yeah.

Yeah.

And. And feels like a weight lift.

Yeah.

Like, it just off of your shoulders.

And I couldn't believe that this was the feeling. I was feeling like my. I knew my career was coming to an end, and. And I couldn't have felt better.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So then, you know, the timing is right. Yeah.

So then Blake and I moved off to Slovakia last year, and I. I played and I coached on the same team, and we lived together for the first time in our lives, and we played out of the same rink, and I just traveled. Traveled anywhere I wanted to go, and it was like, it was the most amazing year of my life.

Oh, what a great experience. That's incredible. And now you guys are back in Canada.

I am.

Oh.

Blake is playing in Florida. He wasn't quite ready to take it up, and, yeah, he's definitely going through the same thing I was going through, but, you know, everyone figures it out in time and.

Yeah. And what kept you from. What made you decide to, like, I don't know what sequence of events happened for you, having coaching opportunities, but what prompted the decision for you to stay and coach and take those opportunities versus go to Florida.

Well, actually, so when I was over in Slovakia, I got the call that, you know, one of the coaches was gonna have to step down because of family issues. And they were like, hey, do you want to step in as an assistant coach? We're in Germany. And I was like, yeah, let's do it. So I had been coaching since out of college, Bantam AA and doing tons of skills in private, and Mel knew that, and so she called me. And so there I was in Germany coaching the under 22 national team, and things kind of just escalated, and I think it went really well. And then they were like, hey, do you want to assist and coach the under 18 team this year? So I did that this August. Like, phenomenal experience. And then Toronto offered me their head coaching job, and I was like, wow. Like, I can't turn this down. This what I want to do. And. And Blake was like, if this is what you want to do, like, you need to do it. Like, don't worry about us living long distance. We've done it for years. We'll be okay. Like, yeah, go grow yourself. And if you want me to quit, I'll quit, but I would love to go to Florida. And I'm like, yeah, I'm like, well, then you go to Florida, and I'll be here, and we'll see each other when we see each other, and we'll make this work.

It works for a while, and then you guys make the decision of, okay, is this working or is it not working? And when do you make that transition kind of thing? So that's amazing. Congratulations on your roles and your positions.

Thank you. Yeah, it's pretty exciting. It's kind of crazy how it all unfolded, but I like to tell myself that everything happens for a reason, and I was given this opportunity, and I definitely couldn't turn it away. So.

So I have a coaching question for you then. You mentioned earlier how important you believe culture is in the dressing room for success in women's hockey.

Yep.

So what do you do specifically to create that?

I think, like, at the furious level, it's a little bit harder because they're older, and some of them have jobs and careers. Some of them are trying out for the national team.

And you've played with some of them, correct?

Yeah, I have.

So that's going to be interesting, too.

Yeah. Yeah. So I think the biggest thing is just no matter where you are in your life or what your goals and your dreams are, you know, we have. We all have a goal in mind, and that's to win a Clarkson Cup. And I think just letting them see that, you know, no matter whether you're a national player or not, you're all important to this team, and you all play a role in the success. Success of us coming together and winning a Clark cup. And they bond over that. And I. I think at this level, it's a little bit easier because. Because they are adults. But to your point of me coaching some of the players I've played with, yeah, it's kind of funny. And that was definitely a worry of the GM when she did hire me. But they're so respectful, and I couldn't be more happy than I am right now coaching them. Like, I say something and they listen and they, you know, But I also. I'm not there to dictate. Like, I draw practices, and I just. And I tell them, like, you know what? I'm here and I. And I make the practices, and I'm here to try and help you get better in whatever way I can. Whether that's on ice or off ice. I want us to be successful because in order for us to be successful on the ice, we all have to be happy and successful off the ice. And so whether that's, you know, them missing practice or going away for the weekend, like, you have to adapt to their. Their lives because ultimately we're not making billions. And so I think that they really. They respect that approach. And I think as a player, I was well respected. So now that I'm in that coaching role, it's kind of like, okay, well, I respected her as a player, so why wouldn't I respect her as a coach?

Right.

Well, it also speaks to how you treat them, too. To gain those athletes respect, you're treating them with respect. And then it speaks to who you are as a coach, the fact that they. You've earned their respect. Yeah, Speak a little bit to. Well, one thing that I've noticed in this is specific to women's hockey versus some of the other competitive or professional female sports. But, like, if I'm thinking volleyball, there are some pretty big women's contracts in volleyball, Professional volleyball or soccer, you know, it's a bit of a different beast, too, but when it comes to women's hockey, it's just not as large worldwide as some of the other women's professional sports. So what I find is that when they keep playing at the higher levels, there's truly a love for the sport, because I know I've seen some men's professional players who they Might keep going, but they don't love it as much as they used to. And it's about the money or about the contract that they can get or they keep playing how many years when they've. They've lost their heart for the game. And, you know, so what. What is that like for you as a coach, knowing that, you know, the pay is just not. It's not there in women's hockey Yet.

Yeah. Yet is the key word. It's coming.

Yeah.

I think it's incredible just to see the passion that all these ladies have for the game. You know, I get to the rink sometimes super early, and there they are up in the gym working out, or they're just there spending time together. Like, they just want to play hockey. And you can see it, you know, whether it's on the ice and we're having fun on the ice, laughing in practice, but at the same time, we're working hard, and, you know, they want to win, and they. They love being around each other, and they just love being at the rink. So it's. It's pretty special to be a part of.

That's amazing. Courtney, I'm going to finish off here with a few quick questions just so people can get to know you a little bit better. And. And then we'll wrap up. What is one really small, maybe action that has had a big impact on your sport or life or relationships? Maybe a little habit or a little thing that you do. What's something little that's had a big impact?

Oh, that's a tough one. I think just every time I stepped on the ice for practice, I enjoyed it. Like, I really enjoyed being with my friends who are family. Yeah. And I think that's. That's a big thing that kept my career going as much as how much I was unhappy. You know, being happy with the people I was surrounded by. Kept going.

Yeah, I've heard that over and over in this. In this interview, just how much you love the people you're around. What's your favorite food or dessert?

My favorite food is Kraft dinner.

No way.

Do you put ketchup on it? Do you put ketchup on time?

I wasn't expecting that.

Yep.

And dessert?

I'm not a big dessert person, but, you know, it's fall. I do love pumpkin spice, so I would say, like, a pumpkin spice scone or a cart.

Nice.

And what about favorite movie?

Definitely the Mighty Ducks. All three of them. Like, to this day, I can still recite all three movies. Nice.

Least it wasn't slap Shot.

Okay.

And you're not a player anymore. Are you still working out?

I am, yep. I actually got a membership to the gym and I'm still trying to stay active.

And what are your favorite types of workouts?

I like circuit training.

Sweet. Okay. And do you have a favorite book?

No, I don't. I'm not a big reader.

What do you have as a hobby that different outside of your sport?

You know what, see, to be honest, this is hard to find it.

I know this is a trouble because.

Now that I'm a coach, I'm like obsessed with hockey. Exactly. Okay.

And do you have a tip for, you know, now you're in this such a special role as a coach and coaches are these mentors that are incredible for young athletes. So do you have and you've been the athlete as well? Do you have a tip to young athletes, young upcomers in your sport?

I think if you have a question or a concern or you're not happy, like just talk to your coach, ask for a meeting because they're humans too and if you're open with them, they're going to be open with you. So don't be scared to reach out to your coaches and ask for help.

That's fantastic. Well, on that note, thank you so much for being with us. We really appreciate you sharing your story and we know that it'll make a difference for other people. So we really appreciate having you on.

Thank you very much for having me.

Thank you so much, Courtney.

Thank you.

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