EP14 Kari and Paul - Lessons Learned in 2018

This is the Empowered athlete podcast, episode 14.

The clock is counting down. 2018 is officially well within the next few hours, depending on when you've pressed play on this, it's going to be in the books. The year is over, and Kari and I are taking a moment on this episode to reflect on the lessons that we've learned and what has been probably the best, the worst, the most challenging year of our lives. I'm going to say our lives.

What do you think this has been a year of learning? Let's put it that way. It has been. It will be very memorable. It will be memorable forever, ever and ever. So, yeah, this is a year of learning.

Yeah. So listen up, sit back for this one. We might share a few things that you didn't know have gone on in our lives. If you haven't heard all the podcasts or may not even touched on some things yet. So it's going to be some juicy dirt on what goes on in the Schnurden household. So sit back and enjoy. Here we go.

We believe in natural products for ourselves and our family. That's right, I'm an essential oil addict. Paul, on the other hand, is a closet oil user.

All joking aside, essential oils have allowed a higher level of health in our home, from bug repellent and cleaning to wound care. And with five kids in four different.

Schools, flu prevention Doterra essential oils are the only oils we use due to the highest quality and worldwide ethical sourcing. I have pretty high standards, as most of you know. My oils need to be consistent and work. For information on DIY recipes, go to mydoterra.com karischneider that's mydoterra.com Karischneider and if you want me to come teach a wellness class for you, reach out to me@ksempowerconditioning.com that's ksempowerconditioning.com the calendar reads 20119.

It is 2019, which means the 1230 challenge has begun.

And that means we're into our January challenge, which is no meat. Meatless, yeah, that can be bad or good, but we're seeing it as good because it's challenging ourselves to grow into learning new recipes and trying new foods.

So it's going to be an awesome thing.

And you can join us, too, if you would like, for the remainder of the month or if you don't like this challenge, join us next month. We've got all kinds of challenges coming up this whole year, one each month.

They're going to be great. They're going to improve ourselves, our relationships, our community, all kinds of things. And it is absolutely free. Just click on the link in the.

Show notes and you're in.

Tell your friends.

Be part of our community. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

All right, let's get into, into it. Kari. 2018. It's nearly over. Crazy. The year has flown by and like we said at the beginning here of the episode, a lot, a lot has gone on for you and I both personally, for our relationship and for our family this year. So where do you want to begin? With what we've learned.

Oh, my gosh. Okay.

The reason I call this the year.

Of learning is because it was a year of failing for me personally.

I failed and failed and failed in almost every area of my life in.

Some form or another.

And because I don't see failing as a bad thing, I, you know, it's only failing if you couldn't find a lesson in what happened. And so that's why I call it.

The year of learning. Because in reflecting on 2018, a lot went down and we're going to share some of that with you. And I think we both have some top lessons learned in 2018. Do you want to go first or do you want me to.

Let me go first and let's just go back and forth so I don't talk too much. So if people don't get sick of hearing my voice for too long here, I want to start with some information for the listeners. I don't know if we've clearly laid this out in other episodes or not. I think we have. But if you've missed it, Kari and I separated this year. Our relationship was an absolute mess. We were fighting. We were the worst versions of ourselves for each other consistently. And I was doing all kinds of things to hurt our relationship. Our relationship hurt my self confidence, my self esteem. And so Kari had had enough and told me to give her some space. And I agreed. I was wanting to fix things but couldn't. And so we took some time apart. And my, my ex wife, Isabel was incredible in helping me get a place to stay. Her parents were away for the summer and so I had somewhere to go where I could be alone and get to work on myself. So the first thing that I learned with that is that. And this didn't happen right away, but you can do anything that you put your mind to, and I'm going to use Tony Robbins phrase here, but if you can get enough leverage on yourself. And what I mean by that is that at that time, it was, I was rock bottom, I was destroyed. I remember getting to Isabel's parents place and spending long periods of time on my back, lying on the floor, feeling physically sick, thinking it was over, thinking I had ruined it, and not knowing what to do. But at the same time, in that pain and still loving you, Kari, I put my mind to, I'm going to fix this. I'm going to do whatever it takes and commit. And the leverage that I had, that I needed was the terror and the fear of being there, of being alone, of being at the limit of us not being together for the rest of our lives. And so obviously I took a whole bunch of actions there. But the lesson that came out of it and the actions is that no matter how bad it is, if you want something and you can get leverage on yourself for it, you can change your behaviors and your actions and take something from a bad situation and slowly make it better. It wasn't definitely not a magic fix, but I definitely learned that lesson that I really can do anything I put my mind to, even the things I don't think I can change, which in this case was my how I was as a person, how I thought on a daily basis, how I communicated, all those sorts of things, which I didn't believe I had the power to change. You know, if you told me you need to change how you look physically, I absolutely, absolutely believe I could do that because I know how to train, I know how to commit to a program and how to eat and those sorts of things or how to learn something. But when it comes to myself and how I am, I had so little confidence in that because of the way our relationship had deteriorated. That again, just that biggest lesson I think of the year of my life is that I got the belief that I can change anything with the right attitude and obviously looking for the skills to do it. So that is my number one for 2018.

Well, you started with a doozy. It's hard to hear, it's hard to listen to because I know how hard that time was. Yeah, a lot of crying went down for both of us. Even though we didn't know what was going on with the other person. When we were separated, we didn't speak at all. And I'm gonna, I'm gonna go into one of my top lessons that is very related to that and that is that Love is not enough. That's what I learned from that whole thing. It was never that we. It was never, ever that we didn't love each other. It was never that we didn't want to be together. It was never anything like that. We always loved each other. We always, you know, wanted all these things. But, yeah, things have become so toxic and there had been so much, I guess, damage caused over the years that it was just hard to manage. And it was a tough lesson to learn in that it didn't matter. You could love somebody and they could still be. I could watch you struggling and it didn't matter how much I loved you. It didn't help. And you could watch me in my life and it didn't matter how much you loved me. You might not have been able to provide what I might have needed at that time. And it just. It was. Oh, it's hard to talk about. It was. I think both of us are romantic enough to believe, especially how insanely over the top, epic in love we were for so long in the beginning of our relationship. And it was so. Such a profound love that we always felt solid, no matter what else life was throwing at us, that we were going to be fine.

Right?

When life threw. When life threw. Family issues, loss in the family, money issues, business issues, disagreements, you know, loss of jobs, like it didn't matter what life was throwing at us.

We kept over and over and over.

Putting our relationship on the back burner because our love was so amazing and so epic and so this. So no matter how romantic we always used to be, that just stopped happening. We didn't. We didn't have dates, we didn't have. We prioritized with our relationship so low because there was a baby and there was four other kids, and there was always so many things that needed our attention more than our relationship. We were just trying to keep our heads above water in so many ways, and everything else was more important. And then until we were empty. We were so empty. If you equate that bank, that savings of love, if you had a bank and you had love was your deposits into that bank. And both of us just felt empty and then just started looking at the other person like, you aren't fulfilling me and you aren't giving me what I need and you aren't. And almost looking at the other person like that, that's what their job was. And you've let me down so much. And that's not what my job is, and it's not what your job is. Our job is to absolutely, unconditionally love the other person and first and foremost, take care of ourselves individually in order to. In order to be strong enough, not only to be there for the other person, but also to have the foundation that we need to be who we need to be for all roles. And that takes self care. That takes nurturing our relationship. And we didn't do that. We didn't nurture our relationship. But so the lesson there for me is just that love is not enough. And what love needs to be there. It's. It's every relationship. It is the. Of the utmost importance. And if there isn't nurturing and consistency and listening and compassion and all of those other factors, then guess what? Love cannot hold everything else up. It just. It. It can't. And so that's what I learned. Love is not enough. Although it is the most important thing, it is the number one for everything, for our family. And what I do now, so much so, it has become my number one value. So I'm gonna cry talking.

This is. This is. You go. You go.

Yeah.

So, yeah. And you know, when you. It breaks my heart to hear you lying on the floor. And at the same time, I still had two kids at home, and we had three kids who were with Isabel who were just alienated and not knowing what the hell was going on. And that was me, too. I was lying on the basement floor just, you know, the kind of crying.

That.

I don't know, you just shake and sob and make weird noises and slobber and that was that kind of crying. And.

And my.

I remember Reyna coming down the stairs and gently just kind of saying, okay.

Like, we have to go, because I.

Had to get up and I had to go and take her to her soccer game, and I had to warm up her team, and I had to bring Maeve, too. And just putting one foot in front of the other was the hardest thing. And I know how I felt, so.

I know how you felt. And.

And it's something that I don't want to forget because our kids watched us go through that, and they were scared.

As hell, and.

We kept just trying to tell them that we're working on things and we love you and this isn't your fault. And then we. We came back together.

So.

Yeah. So it's a big deal. And that's. My lesson, is love is not enough. Let's move on to the next one. You go now.

All right. Hopefully you're all still with us. Grab the Kleenex. We're gonna keep pushing on Here. The next lesson I have, looking back on our year, I think everyone now gets the drift of how heavy it was for us. You really touched on this in your last point. And the lesson that really hit home for me in learning about how we got into that situation was self care. Making time for myself and prioritizing. It sounds counterintuitive, but to have a great relationship I needed to prioritize with myself and be a little bit selfish because what was happening was I wasn't giving myself self care, I wasn't getting what I needed. So I simply wasn't the person that I wanted to be or you needed me to be. And so it was a big realization throughout that process and a huge secondary lesson learned because of it was to priority prioritize myself and do some things that I need to feel good about myself, to to be happy with myself, to be comfortable spending time alone in a positive space. And again, skill. It's not something that you just flick a switch and happens and it's taking action. That's introspection, it's reading, it's thinking. For me it was actually the process of journaling twice a day every day, which I started when we were right away. Once we split up, I got the stoic journal and it just gives you a thought or a question basically each day which you reflect on in the morning and the evening. And that process of getting into my own head, my own thoughts and figuring out what makes me tick and what makes me happy and how I want to think. Extremely therapeutic and very positive and a great habit to get into. So my second lesson is that it's getting to know yourself and making time for yourself and doing the things that you want to do to make yourself happy. My default habit was to put what I needed on the back burner and get the kids to a practice or gosh, not, not spend any money myself to make sure there's money for something else to always do something above and beyond myself at the cost of myself and my own self worth. So lesson number two, prioritize with yourself. It's that simple.

I love it. Is there anything else you're going to.

Add for self care in 2019?

Well, self care in 2019 is going to be obviously going through the our 30 day challenges. There's a bunch because a bunch of them are things that will connect me with people and bring me joy on a daily basis. It's things that I know that if I put time aside for and make a habit that I'm going to be a much happier person. So I don't want to give anything away, but I just know that will absolutely be one of the big but.

For people to truly appreciate where you're at when it comes to self care. Because we don't count self care as a workout because that's just, that's part of who we are. So that doesn't feel like self care for either one of us. We'll work out on a daily basis and, or, you know, very frequently and that won't really count as self care when it comes to who we are. But, but to give people a sense like you will, you'll put a TV show on maybe about cars and comedians, I don't know, and fold laundry and that will feel like self care to you. Like that's, that's how for other people listening, they might just be like what you know, because taking off a task but being able to watch a little show at the same time. But that's, that's that point to how crazy our lives have been for an extended period of time. So yeah, self care is a huge thing. I'm going to point to my second one as being that I can't always have things my way. What I know I was an only child as a kid, but one thing that I got smacked in the face with this year is that I have a few businesses on the go and one of them being the gym business. I restructured the entire business after losing two dear, dear people to other coaching positions and just changes in life. Moving, moving. One went to do a master's degree in the States and the other one was moving for his family to be closer to their parents. And so I restructured the whole business for a number of reasons as well, besides losing them, and partnered with amazing people in the movement strength group. And in doing so, I haven't had.

To partner with anyone or make any.

Other business decisions other than my own for a very, very long time. Even though, like, even when I worked with a Canadian sport institute, I ran, I was the manager of strength and conditioning. So I ran things, I had assistants, I got to decide things. I got to tell. Even though I had a general manager, they didn't manage my realm or my field.

And then having my own kind of.

Personal training thing after that and then opening my own business in 2006, like it's almost a span of 20 years where I didn't have to answer to other people or really partner with other people. And so I had to sit and watch my whole gym space change into something that was Going to suit their business and be different from what I had as my vision for my business, which was all good, but it was. And I'm one that loves change. Like I grind through change like no one else. But it wasn't change that I had decided on. So there were all kinds of changes that someone else had decided on and they weren't always necessarily a thing I would have done. And so it took a lot of stepping back and stepping back and stepping back and looking at that.

What was your thought process when you were faced with something that you weren't sure about or didn't like? How did you, how did you make sure that you maintain the relationship but also protect. What, what, what was the immediate thought process, though? I think it'd be just great advice for people to hear when they hear something at work they don't want to hear. In that initial reaction that comes up, you had to deal with that. But I think you do it with a lot of class and you're so what?

Well, it was exactly, it was exactly that in that I had to put relationship first. Relationship first was always the first thought, okay, relationship first. If I don't like this, that isn't the priority. It's the relationship first. And also looking at the bigger picture impact, because even though I might not like something, does that really matter? Is that worth the issue that might be caused by that and does it fall in alignment with what we originally agreed with and things like that? And you know, the relationship first is key because the thing I know, no matter what is that the people I was partnering with are amazing people who are doing amazing things and creating incredible community. And the things that I was doing was stepping back from as much of a physical presence in the gym. I still have a physical presence in the gym, but I wasn't running the business like I had been before and I was expanding into other businesses and. And so it was relationship number one and everything else. I had to look at it as details. Those are just details. If this doesn't happen this way or that doesn't happen this way, it's just details. The only problems would ever come about is if communication had broken down or the relationship wasn't put as a priority. And so those were the beautiful things about it. And the same exact.

Sounds like a marriage, right?

Exactly. But the same exact things were happening in other parts of my businesses. So I have a Doterra business. I'm a wellness advocate with Doterra and that requires a tight knit team. It is not a one man show. And I was finding I wanted certain things in my business, but it requires a team unification in order for that to happen. So if, you know, I couldn't just have my way, the thing that I wanted, no matter how hard I worked it, I was always, I always felt in my past business, businesses that if I worked really hard, I can make things work. And it just took a lot of hard work. And you and I are no slouches when it comes to that. We can work harder than the best of them. But that wasn't the case for this. I could work my butt off and I still may not get my way. And that's the thing I had to really learn this year with a number of different things. Same thing with our. We have a rental property in Mexico and I run and manage that and I maintain it too. I go down there and I do the things that need to maintain it. And there'd be stuff that just didn't go my way. We had problems with constructing a bathroom. We had, you know, somebody bail. We had, you know, just some things like that. And it doesn't always go my way. And I had lesson after lesson this year just had to teach me over and over that it doesn't always go your way and that's okay. And how you adapt to that is going to set the stage for all kinds of things that you're going to be able to deal with that are much larger in the future. And, and that's what we want. We want to be the people who can deal with so much greater problems that are become a non issue because we're that good of a person to adapt or lead that situation. So I can't always have things my own way. So what's your next one?

I'm going to run with your thought there of becoming that person who can adapt to this. The variability and the uncertainty and the people issues and all that strife. And so my lesson that was, I'm going to say, okay, it's definitely a lesson learned. It's something I knew but didn't apply to a realm of my life. So I'll clarify what I'm talking about here. But the Lesson I learned 2018 that I want to add to my list here is to get help. And I've known this as a student, you need a teacher. I've known this as a volleyball player, you need a coach, you need a sports psychologist, you need to get help from teammates, you need to get help from video, from scouting, you need to get help from an incredible strength coach. If you want to be physically awesome, but I felt personally that I was good, that I was fine the way I was. And obviously, you know, now, having listened to us for the last 25 minutes, that I'm not. That I didn't have the ability to communicate. I didn't have the ability to share feelings and emotions, to deal with things that have happened in my life and disappointments and all those tough things that come up. And so the biggest lesson that I learned that I now believe in is getting help and getting tools. And help can come in a variety of forms. For personal growth, it's listening to podcasts. There's a thousand good ones out there. There isn't a bad one out there, because if you listen to anyone, you can learn whether it's something that you agree with or disagree with. You can learn whether something might work for you or not. So it's really good to hear a lot of different opinions and things and try them out in yourself. So I don't feel like there's anything bad out there. It just may be something that doesn't work from you, and it confirms that for you. So it's actually a positive. But it could be podcasts, it could be books. It can be going to Tony Robbins Insane Weekend, like, unleash the power within like we did, which is just incredible. I went to a therapist in the last year. There's all kinds of ways that you can get help, and it's being open to getting that help and believing that it's not a bad thing, that you're not less of a. I'm going to go to my gender here. But you're not less of a man because you're doing it. And I know prior to the huge breakdown that we had, anytime you, Kari, suggested I listened to a podcast or read a book or whatever it was, I interpreted that as, you're not good enough and it's wrong. And ladies, or men out there, if you are looking to help your partner, you know that there's areas that they can improve on. So I don't want to say that you're looking to improve your partner, even though you might be. You should be coming from a place of just love and wanting to help them be the best version of themselves. Suggesting those things is a dangerous game because depending on the state that your partner's in, they're not going to hear what you're saying in the way you want them to. And I definitely didn't hear Kari. You know, Kari could see everything that's going wrong with our relationship. And what she needed from me was basically, you know, presenting some tools that would help me give her what she needed. But I couldn't hear that it was. I wasn't good enough, you know?

And so it's not even that. It's not even that I wanted something. Like, it got to the point where I didn't want something from you anymore. I just wanted you to, you know, love you. You know, if you could be happy, that would have been. That would have been great for me, you know?

Well, that's exactly it. You. You were coming from that space all along. It's what I was hearing that was changing throughout the process.

So all you could hear was, you suck.

Yeah. Or. Yeah. And so big, big, massive lesson that I learned is to be open to the growth, open to getting help and finding it. And in a way that's comfortable for you, it might just be reading a book on your own. It might be journaling. There's all kinds of things you can do. But don't sit there and think that where you're at now is going to be working for you in the future. Kara, you always say, what got you here won't get you there. And so we all need, as people to grow and to feel good about ourselves. And this is something that I've absolutely learned. And I think the key lesson here, I've embraced it this year in terms of self help, self growth and improvement.

Yeah.

So there you have it. That is another massive lesson that has landed for me in 2018.

Help. Help, help. One for me is patience. I am not naturally a patient person.

Shush.

Sorry.

Okay. Yeah, yeah. You and your music. Your little cover for patience. Once I decide something, I usually decide fast. And if I don't decide something quickly, I'll be almost bugged or grumpy because I'm mulling something over and flipping things over about 200 times in my mind. It might take a little while to decide something, but once I decide something, I move so fast on it that it usually leads to all kinds of destruction in my wake for the people around me. Because I'm making changes in a way that is usually faster than most people would like. So I need to have patience in order to honor my family, in order to honor my business, my relationship with you. I need to have that patience to understand that not everybody's going to want to move as fast as I do, and they're not going to necessarily see things the way, the same way that I do. And you're one of the people I'm the most impatient with. Because I'm like, can't you see what I see? Let's go. And I need to be able to see through other people's eyes and have that patience to let someone get to their view of things. Not just me going as fast as I typically go. So patience is that next one. What about you?

Well, I have one more that I wanted to get in.

Sure.

Really relates to the time of year being the end of 2018 and that something I've learned this year through life events is that time. And I've kind of always known this, but time is flying, so make the most of it. We had little Reyna go off to university this year in what seems like the blink of an eye from when she was just a little kid. And my oldest son, Xavier, he's in his final year of high school trying to choose universities. We're starting to run out of kids in this house. And, you know, I know before we know it, Maeve's going to be doing the same thing. She's only 7, but it's just going so quickly. So having time to reflect this summer as, you know, seeing you packing Reyna up and getting ready for school and all of that and just seeing how she's grown into this incredible woman. Just hammered home how quickly things are going and that I need to be present all of the time to enjoy it because things are happening fast and the way I used to be. I was in my head all the time and missing opportunities consistently to connect with the kids, connect with you, connect with people and build relationships and be in the moment as opposed to being in my head worrying about something that's already passed or might be coming up. So that final lesson I want to share for 2018, with time being on everyone's minds right now and the countdown, is to simply make the most of time, be present to it, be in the moment and soak it up.

I'm going to add on to that one just a touch and that's that it all works out. When all of those big milestones in life in terms of taking Reyna to school and everything, you know, all of a sudden I have to have in that moment, I have to have trust in all of the years of teaching, tough decisions, life lessons, I have to have trust in all of that that's happened in the past because now it's creating her future. She's on her own. It's not us to decide anymore. And one of the big things that comes with that concept of it's all going to work out is that life is happening for us, not to us. And we just interviewed a young athlete not long ago, and some things are going on in his life. And that was something that I texted him because he's just feeling like things are going through this disastrous path.

And I'm like, you're going to look.

Back on this and see how you needed this to become the man that you're going to become. And life is not happening to you. It's happening for you. And that's part of really being able to embrace all of the moments, whether they're good or bad, from a time perspective. Sometimes we're just trying to rush through.

Certain parts of our life, rush through.

The hectic part of having all these kids and all these sports and doing all these things versus going, okay, this is a tough season in our lives, and it's happening for us, it's happening for all of us versus, you know, happening to us.

Absolutely.

That's a big thing. And I want to finish up on this last part that you kind of started with this in a. It was maybe your second point, but it's that our minds are far, far more powerful than we can even imagine. You mentioned that we had done the Tony Robbins. We did an event called Unleash the Power within, and it's a seminar, and it was four days long, and I never in a million years could have fathomed that we would walk on fire. And that first day and that first night, in the middle of the night.

It was like one in the morning.

And we were priming ourselves and getting completely psyched in this mental capacity, probably greater than you've even ever experienced in all your sporting events. But being psyched and mentally primed in this way that we'd never, ever really experienced in order to physically put our feet on hot coals and go through it without burning our feet off. And that moment really had me understand the power of our minds. And this whole year in what we've gone through, and especially.

That event, taught.

Me that our minds are so freaking unbelievably powerful that we could never have. We don't truly appreciate what we're capable of. And we're capable of so much more than we've ever been taught. We're capable of so much more than we've ever experienced or even think we can. We just don't know what we don't know. And we can overcome our years of hard wiring of everything we've learned. We can overcome the most limiting beliefs. We can overcome anything awful that's happened in our past. And that is what I really, really hit home for me in so many examples in 2018. And walking on Fire was just like that cherry on the top of the biggest cake that's full of icing because I never in a million years kind of predicted that I could have done that. And so much more has opened up because of that whole seminar as well. So in all of the experiences in 2018. So that's my last one. Our minds are so much more powerful than we can ever imagine. I really am grateful for everyone who's been able to listen to this, and I hope that it, you know, I know for sure that you've gotten to know us a bit better by listening to this, but I hope that our lessons, some of the tough ones, some of the beautiful ones, I hope that our lessons can either inspire or enlighten or provide you with support that you didn't have before listening to this. So I hope that that's there for you. And I know that 2019 is going to be an incredible year. And I am excited for all of the lessons, the failures, the beauty, the love, all of. All of what 2019 is going to present us with.

It's going to be incredible. And that, that idea that what we're talking about here is hopefully helping you, the listener. We want to hear back from you, so please leave us comments. Hit us at our emails. You know what they are. For the 12:30 challenge, it's KS or pdpowerconditioning.com so reach out to us with your thoughts. We'd love to hear from you about maybe challenges you've had. We can maybe address those in the show and things that Kari and I have gone through might relate and we can share those to help everyone who's listening in. And just to wrap up today, Kari, you're not off the hook. We've had a deep kind of conversation here, but we're going to lighten the mood a little bit and get back to our book of questions so that we can learn a little bit more about you and how you think. Obviously, a lot shared today, but go one more step here with a book of questions. So you do need to choose a number, and I will choose the question from the book that matches 82. Going to question 82. Is it easy for you to accept help when you need it? Will you ask for help?

No and no.

That was the easiest one ever.

I could have predicted that.

Yeah. I mean, after this whole podcast, I'm sure everybody knows why. No, no, not easy. And not easy. No. I've been in dire circumstances on my own as a single mom and didn't even know how to ask for help, let alone who to ask for help and no family around and, you know, all those things.

So you should listen to one of my lessons learned this year.

I know.

I think one of my lessons learned was to get help, so maybe you can work on that.

That was. I can't believe that that was the question. Like, that's. That's bizarre. That's where you, you know, you believe that there's some sort of karma working in the universe to draw me to that question. That's right. Yeah. And in finishing, you know, happy finishing of 2018. Have a wonderful New Year's, everyone. We. We adore doing this, so we are hoping that it's having an impact on other people. Please rate and review if you can. That means so much to us in being able to get this podcast out there. It's still so new. It needs a lot of nurturing yet. So we've got some great, great interviews coming up, and we're so excited for 2019. Thank you so much for being with us and happy New Year, everyone.

Happy New Year, everyone.

Sa.