EP15 Charlotte Prouse - 3000m Steeplechase - National Team

This is the Empowered athlete podcast, episode 15. Elite athletes, and especially elite runners toe a very fine line between what's good for their health, training and mentality and what isn't.

Today we have Charlotte Prowse with us and she tells her story about what she's gone through with mental health and performance. And she is high performance. She's been a three time Canadian champion in the steeple, NCAA steeple runner up, and she's an incredible cross country and track athlete with us today. Charlotte prowse, we believe in natural products for ourselves and our family. That's right, I'm an essential oil addict. Paul, on the other hand, is a closet oil user.

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Schools, flu prevention doterra essential oils are the only oils we use due to the highest quality and worldwide ethical sourcing. I have pretty high standards, as most of you know. My oils need to be consistent and work. For information on DIY recipes, go to mydoterra.com that's mydoterra.com Karischneider and if you want me to come teach a wellness class for you, reach out to me@ksempowerconditioning.com that's ksempowerconditioning.com the calendar reads 201 9.

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Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Hey, everyone. Welcome to the show. Joining us fresh from the Mountain West Cross Country Conference Championships, Charlotte Prowse. Charlotte, thank you for Making the time. Glad to have you here.

Yeah, thank you for having me.

Welcome.

So you're coming off an impressive event yesterday. So can you tell us the. Tell us the results?

Yeah. So we had our Mountain West Conference championship yesterday in San Diego, and it was a good race. Yeah, the team, myself and my two other teammates, we went 1, 2, 3 in the race. So that was really, really fun. And the team got the win, which was the most important part. So, yeah, it was a good day for us, and we'll move on to regionals in two weeks, and then the following week will be nationals. So the season is quickly coming to an end, but, yeah, we're excited and ready to go.

You told us it was a weird course that you would be running through a dog park, I think, and crossing a road and a few other things. Was it as wild as you thought?

This is cross country. Just for our listeners to know. This is cross country. So, yeah, tell us about that. That course.

Yeah, it was super strange. It's definitely one of the weirdest courses I've run on. We, like, started kind of up this little hill, like, right away, and then went straight down almost into, like, a canyon, which was then, like, a dog park, and then up this wood chip part and across a road and around a, like, tennis court area. It was kind of strange, but it was broken up nicely, which I guess is a good thing. But it definitely was one of the weirdest courses I've ever run on.

So when you're racing, just to give listeners a sense of this, when you're racing, are you able to, like, is that good for you, to kind of be a little bit intrigued or distracted by the scenery or are you in the zone so much in your race that you can't even really pay attention to that?

I think for myself, I've recently really needed to start to kind of zone in on my race. I tend to kind of zone out in the middle 2k and get kind of farther back than I should and have to really try and work hard that last two kilometers. So yesterday was a day I really tried to focus in on, like, the race and making sure that I was, you know, staying connected with, you know, the front girls and not letting myself kind of get comfortable and fade back a bit and then try and catch it, catch up in the last little bit. But the nice thing about the course was that it kind of the way it moved was it kind of just allowed you to kind of zone out about how weird the course was and kind of just try and get the tangents and kind of move your way through. But as well, you kind of knew where you were at every point and how far you had left, which was nice. About the loops, that's great.

So how many loops were there?

So we did two big and one kind of smaller loop. So three.

So for people listening for cross country, what's the. So this is a Western Conference final that you were running and what's the distance and what's the pace that you're roughly running at? So that listeners can kind of understand what this, what this is like.

Yeah. So for the women, we run 6km, and I think I was right around 20 minutes for 6k.

Nice. That's what I want people to understand, like that this, this is fast as hell.

Right?

This isn't a walk in the park. And, and for perspective, you know, this is cross country. You're going up and down, you're not on a track. So to hold that kind of pace, it's, you know, this is really, really fast and really impressive. And for listeners who are listening from other sports, you know, there's that respect for what it takes to get to that point. And um, how. Just before we leave this, the topic of this race, was there a point in it that in this race. Cause I, you know, I've done a little bit of running and track myself, and I know that there's certain things and certain parts of racing that are just a suffer fest. Like, was there a part in this race that you were hurting? Like, just. And you had to mentally grind through or you had to use other people to motivate or, like, was. Was there a point where you really had to grind or it was. You were hurting, like, what was it like for you?

Yeah, for sure. I think the one kind of funny part about the race was a lot of people were cheering for the girl who was. Who got fourth. They were cheering, screaming at her to catch me. And I think for myself, it was kind of just funny. And I was like, well, like, I guess I got to keep going. And I think the nice thing about cross country as well is it is such a team sport. And I was being told by coaches that the whole way that every point mattered. And I think I love the team aspect of it and being able to, you know, cross that finish line knowing that I did everything I could for the team was really exciting. So I think that was. It gets hard for sure, at like 4K in. And I was really just trying to stay focused and making sure that I was, you know, staying connected and Trying to, you know, gradually get faster over that last mile to last kilometer and really make sure that I was keeping moving so, you know, I wasn't getting caught. And yeah, it's, it's definitely.

There are.

Parts where it is really, really hard. And for myself, I'm just trying to really work on staying focused and not letting myself get, you know, comfortable with feeling comfortable in a race and instead, you know, trying to feel comfortable in the discomfort. I've been reading this new book and it kind of talks about that like mindful like part about racing and really like having a deliberate intention for each race. So I've been trying to kind of use that towards racing.

Yeah, it's, it's amazing because it's that discomfort zone that allows us to get the best from ourselves and really stretch and push ourselves. But at the same time, something that you're pointing to earlier, we've heard from a number of people, it's that the thing that provides the most fulfillment and has you feel the best is that part of doing what you're doing for something that's bigger than yourself, which for you ends up being the team, the team aspect of it, where. Okay, like that's, that's great. The reason you got the best out of yourself was because it was part of working together with your team and working for your team as well.

Yeah, exactly.

Can you take us back?

Like you, you have such an incredible list of amazing accomplishments. So three time Canadian track championship in the steeple, NCAA steeple runner up. You've just done all sorts of nine time offset champion and so many different things that you have to your name. You back us up. Were you always a runner or did you start in other sports? What was that like for you early on?

Yeah, so I did a ton of sports growing up. I played lacrosse and soccer and basketball and did swim team all through high school and sailed a bit. And I think I always kind of knew, you know, with soccer and all the sports that had kind of running involved that that was really one of the big reasons why I was, you know, doing all right at those sports. So. But my parents were really good with allowing me to kind of try out a bunch of different things and see what I liked. And right before I entered high school, I decided to kind of move on to just focusing on running just because it is a lot of training and, you know, little things, not just running, but like getting in your weights and doing, recovering and all that stuff. So really making sure that I allowed myself to kind of get go to running. When it was a good time and not, you know, being too focused in on it really early on.

What point in high school did you think that, okay, I want to keep doing this, and I've got.

I've got a shot at, you know.

Maybe getting a scholarship or competing in university. Like, when. When did you really let that sink in or know that that was the case?

I think ever since I was, like, in, like, grade five, I always loved the idea of going to the States on a scholarship. And I think in grade five, I thought I was gonna go for soccer. Like, I thought I was so good. In retrospect, I'm not, but you and.

Jesse could have played on.

Yeah, she's much, much, much better than I am. She'll never say that, but destroyed me. And even in running back then, she was kicking my butt, so.

And for those who don't know, sorry, Jesse. We're speaking of Jesse Fleming, who's playing with the Canadian national soccer team with the women, played in rio in the 2016 Games. But Charlotte and Jesse went to school.

Together, so, yeah, we've been friends for quite a while.

So I was gonna say you're tight buds more than just.

Yeah, yeah, I think I wanted to go for soccer. And then kind of as those dreams faded away with my lack of soccer ability, I really just started enjoying running. And I had really. I was very fortunate with the coaches that I was. I've had growing up with Janet and, you know, Tammy and Trude's at Central, and they were just really, you know, patient with me and never made it more, you know, than it should have been at that time. And I was, you know, allowed to kind of come into running and take responsibility for what I wanted in my own way and not have it too intense too early on. So, yeah, I'd say I've always wanted to do something in the sports world for a while, but I don't think I kind of realized that I could actually go somewhere and running till I probably started high school. And I think when I started winning offset titles, I think I kind of had that idea in the back of my head when, you know, Janet would talk about it and girls would come back who had, you know, kind of done similar things that I was already doing. So I think probably around grade nine or so.

Who. Who did you look up to at that point? Who were your. I know as a young player in high school, we'd watch old VHS tapes of, you know, national volleyball team or other sports to watch highlights or NCAA basketball or things like that. Who do. Who did you idolize or aim to be? If there was someone.

Remember, I think it was like 2000 and like 10 or something. And Chalene Flanagan had just gotten, I think, or it was 2008, had gotten like third place or something in the world cross country race. And I just thought it was so cool. And I remember watching that race and it was just something that I was like, oh, like I want to do that one day. Like, I want to represent Canada. I think that would be so fun. And I think she even still, like, she's just such an amazing athlete right now. And I think as I've gotten older, I definitely change, like with who I look up to. I think, you know, I have, I'm fortunate to have really close friends that are very gifted and successful athletes. I mean, Jesse is an amazing athlete and human being. And you know, Courtney Ferrics, who runs the steeple and went to UNM is one of my really close friends. And you know, she's just run 9 flat, I think I'm just, I've been very fortunate to have not only kind of runners but just athletes in general coming out of London and out of Central and UNM and kind of been around me and kind of just been showing me the way and showing me the ropes and just kind of, you know, giving me some inspiration to know that if they can do it, like, why can't I, if I put myself in it as well.

With that inspiration. Did you? I don't know what really got you towards Steeple because that's something that most people wouldn't have had an example for. And for our listeners, describe what the steeplechase is.

So it's a three kilometer race on the track and there's five hurdles or barriers and one of them has like a water pit behind it, which I think is like, I think it's 12ft long. And you have to, for myself, like I jump up on the barrier and push off to clear the pit since it's kind of sloped. So the closer you land to the barrier, the deeper the water is. So you want to try and get as far out as you can. And then the other four barriers are just normal. They don't have water behind them. And it's like a giant hundred pound hurdle that you try and get over.

This is the inspiration for obstacle course racing, I'm sure. Yeah, yeah, the very beginning of it. So you headed off to university, but New Mexico wasn't where you first went. So what was, what was it like when you first went to school. You had the opportunity for a scholarship, I believe. And what. What was that first year like? You're leaving home, you've got an incredibly challenging sport and training in front of you, and you're off to Washington, I believe.

Yeah. So I was fortunate to, you know, have my schooling and everything covered.

Which.

Is something that's really nice. But I went to the University of Washington my first two years in Seattle, which is a lovely city, and my freshman year was pretty good. Like, I ran all right in cross country and okay. In the indoor, and then had a pretty good outdoor season and made world juniors and ran 9:44 in the steeple, which was a huge PR for me. And then, yeah, my sophomore year was pretty rocky and was going through some. Just some mental stuff and realized at the end of that year, so in about June, that I needed to remove myself from that environment and find somewhere else that was gonna be both healthy for me on and off the track and put myself in an environment that would allow me to continue to go for my athletic goals, but as well, you know, be a healthy individual off the track, which has been something that's been a big part into, I think, my recent success. So I moved to Albuquerque in August last year, and I've been here for just over a year now, and it's sunny and warm, and I have no complaints, so.

Oh, that's awesome. In this. In this podcast, we really. We really tend to dive into those things that people have overcome because it sets a real example for people who are going through those struggles currently. What was there for you? What was it like and what happened for you in your sophomore year that caused a real dip for you mentally?

Yeah. So I think as a distance runner and as an elite athlete, a female in general, just a lot of comparison is super difficult. And especially when you're in an environment where, you know, you're with people every day. And in running, it's really easy to get obsessed with. Obsessed with it and start comparing yourself and not only just your running, but in your lifestyle choices and, you know, what you're eating and how you look and everything like that. And I think for myself, I have always wanted to just be the best. And I think it got really easy to get really obsessed with that and start trying to control, you know, what I ate. And it's hard in distance running being in an environment where everyone is kind of thinks like that and everyone, you know, wants to kind of use food as a way to accelerate their performance. And, you know, the. I think that was A big thing was the environment I was in was not a healthy one in that way. And it was, you know, a comparison of every moment. And it got really, really hard for me to be involved in, and it really started to, you know, literally eat me alive. And yeah, it was. It was a really tough time. And I think it's not necessarily just at the school I was at. It's a problem, you know, throughout the ncaa of eating problems and everything like that. And I think as a female athlete, it is heightened. And yeah, that was a big part of kind of what I was going through and trying to, you know, figure out who I was outside of running. And I wasn't racing. And that was a big issue for me, just because I've never really gone a long period of time without having a sport and running specifically, kind of holding my identity together. So that was a difficult part as well. And it took me a bit to kind of fall back in love with running. And I don't think I really had that feeling until probably the end of the cross country season last year. I really started to work on, you know, loving running for the right reasons, just because I feel like my sophomore year I wasn't doing that. And in running, it really beats you up if you're kind of just doing it for, you know, validation from the outside.

Mm. It's.

What were the. Yeah, that's. It sounds like a really, really tough year. And the question I wanted to ask. Sorry to jump in there, Kari, was what. What were the signs? How. How did you become aware? I know with the struggles that I encountered with depression and my mental health, that I was unaware of it, that I was kind of zombie ish, if you will. But what. What cued you? What gave you the signs that made you aware something was happening to you, that you were off and. Or did you have help? What was that like?

Yeah, I'd say I was pretty much in like a state of like, unawareness like that zombie kind of like not really allowing any. What anyone said to kind of stick with me for a while. I'd say the entire cross country season. And I don't know whether or not I would have kind of snapped into it realization, like after cross country, unless I had the kind of blow up of a performance that I did at our national championship my sophomore year. And I think just having a result like that. And, you know, my parents were big supporters of, you know, doing whatever I needed to get healthy. And whether or not that was coming home or, you know, quitting running or continuing Running or taking a break or anything like that. You know, I owe them a lot. They've always been really, really big supporters and were very supportive getting me help and just allowing me to kind of do what I needed over the winter. And I really, really needed to kind of figure out what was going on. And it definitely took me a long time to kind of realized that something was going on. And it wasn't until probably the wintertime that I really allowed myself to kind of accept it because I even still after, when I was done, the cross country season, was kind of not really believing that it was an issue. And I'd say into the winter and then through the spring, like, I really wanted to work on moving forward and, you know, finding out how I could best, you know, manage stress and kind of comparison and that outside noise from getting from not like affecting what I was doing and kind of knowing what I needed instead of, you know, looking around and seeing what others were doing.

Yeah, it's that. It's that comparison as the thief of.

Joy.

Which I think is so poignant for people to be able to recognize, but it's so hard to recognize when you're in the forest, right. When you're in the thick of it. Can you. Some of the things you're describing, you know, it. Obsessions with food, lot of control, a lot of an environment where food is used for performance. If you feel comfortable, can you describe to us, especially for listeners who might be going through similar things, especially in sports that are body image sports, can you describe for our listeners, at one of your lowest points, what were you doing that you can see now wasn't working for your health, your life, your mental wellness, all of the things, but at the time you couldn't see it. What types of things were you doing at that point that if you feel comfortable describing that, you know, you look back and go, holy cow. Like, it just. It wasn't good for me or anything that I want for my life.

Yeah, I think a big thing with sports, I think, you know, when some, when you have a bad performance or you don't, you know, perform in a way you want, or you have a bad workout or you have a bad day or anything like that, like, you feel almost like guilty and you want to, you know, punish yourself in some way or in some form, and whether or not that's, you know, people have food or exercise, like doing more, doing less, like people have different ways of, you know, experiencing that. And I think for myself, like, when I had a bad performance or a bad Race. Like, I looked at it in a way of like, okay, like, I don't deserve to have, like this type of food or something like that. And I think, you know, punishing yourself for not having, you know, a bad day is. It puts you back farther. And I think that's something that even still, like, I have to remember that if I didn't have a good workout, like, that is okay, like, it's not going to be perfect every single day. And kind of knowing that and knowing I don't need to go kill a run the next day to kind of make up for that and that as long as I'm doing, you know, not doing good, not great, not exceptional every single day, it's that consistency over time. And that's something that I've really had to know, continue to remind myself that I don't have to be, you know, my best self every day. But if I'm there and I'm giving it my best on that day and, you know, what I have, and continuously putting in good, solid efforts instead of, you know, focusing on having to be perfect, that at the end of that, it's that cumulation of, you know, working hard that's going to make the difference. And when you punish yourself for not being perfect, it's when you, you put yourself farther back than you should and it's your body telling you something that you, you know, maybe you're not doing something right. Like you didn't, you ran too much that week, or you didn't feel properly, or you didn't drink enough water or something like that. And you should use it as a way of learning instead of a way of beating yourself up. So I think that was a large thing for me is I was using it to kind of say that I wasn't doing enough and that I needed to do more and I needed to, you know, punish myself in a way instead of looking at maybe, okay, like, maybe I'm not feeling correctly instead of looking at it in a different perspective.

And do you find that that's kind of an ongoing practice? It's that, you know, I like to say to my athletes, clients that progress is perfection. And do you find that it really becomes a practice to learn how to see that your body is telling you something and that that's a good thing versus, you know, why isn't my body doing what I want it to or why did I not perform the way I wanted to? Is it something that you have to work on on a daily basis?

For sure. I think for myself, really making sure. That I don't allow myself to kind of slip back into only thinking about running all the time and allowing that to affect my other aspects of my life. Because, yes, I am, you know, an elite runner and I want to be the best, but I do want other things in my life. You know, I want to have a social life and, you know, I do have school and, you know, I want a career and I want a family and I want a life further down the road. And I think for myself, it's really taken, like, coming back to myself. And, you know, I write, I like to journal a lot just to make sure that, you know, I validate my feelings. Like, and I allow myself to, you know, not have great days and still struggle with things. And obviously it's never going to be perfect. And I've kind of had to accept that, but ensure that I am, at the end of the day, allowing myself to, you know, take care of my body and, you know, allowing myself to as well, struggle, but making sure that at the end of the day that I'm doing, you know, the running for the right reasons and that I'm enjoying it and I'm happy. And I think it's easy to kind of, you know, continue with a sport just because you've always done it and, you know, people expect you to be an athlete. And for me, I've really had to ensure that I'm doing it for the right reasons and doing it for myself. And I think that's been a big thing, is really finding joy in it still instead of kind of just, you know, clipping away at, like, miles and just because I have to.

Yeah, yeah. And knowing that running is a part of your life and it's not who you are.

Exactly. Yeah. And I think that's been a really big thing for me, is that I am someone outside of my running. And that was really, really difficult for me to go through last year when I wasn't on the team. Oh, no, sorry. Two years ago, my sophomore year, when I wasn't racing or running and I was really struggling with, you know, self identity and self worth and, you know, who was I outside of running? Because growing up all through high school and I've always been, you know, a runner and. Oh, like Charlotte can't do these things because she's a runner and kind of being like, being able to find, you know, life outside of it just because it is so easy to kind of stick to, you know, friends instead of running and just kind of going through the motions.

Speaking of life outside of running.

What.

Where does the nickname come from? Bubbles.

So it originally came from when I wear my glasses, my eyes get, like, huge because I'm pretty blind. So. So I had a nickname that was like Bubbles, like from trailer park boys because people thought that's what I looked like when I had my glasses on, which is kind of an insult. But I've kind of turned it into my own little name brand, I guess. And I guess now with chewing people coming. Yeah, chewing gum is kind of. It's moved onto that, I guess a double meaning, but the original is from my glasses.

Do you run into gum?

Yeah, that's. It's kind of morphed into that now, but it'll always be with the glasses. I think it's kind of been my root of that, but, yeah, that's great.

We've got a little background noise. I don't know if it might be your headphones or microphone or something, but there's something making some noise there. So if we dive into a little about you, maybe some. A few questions that we start to wrap up with. But what do you want people to know about you that most people just wouldn't have a clue? What would you like to kind of let people know that? It could be a quirky thing. It could be anything.

I don't know. That's a good question.

Now they know the bubbles, so, yeah.

That'S a big deal.

Well, here, let's start with something easier. Tell us something about Kari that people wouldn't know. You've trained in the gym with us for years.

No, no, don't do that. Yeah, I mean, it'd be better to ask Kari what Kari thought of me. When I first started at Empower, I think I was probably one of her most loud and annoying clients at first. I think I was always kind of distracting everyone.

Well, if I. If I was going to describe you that, that my. My first impressions of you in the gym were that I knew who Charlotte was, because you. Yeah, you. You came in, you were full of energy. You had everybody laughing. You weren't afraid to wear some fresh colors or some crazy, crazy looking shoes. And, yeah, you just brought fantastic energy into this space, which made you memorable in my mind. I mean, I remember the first time I saw you. So that was my opinion. But I want some. I want to know, was there a workout that you hated doing with Kari? I mean, she's responsible for the lifting side of things for you, and there's something you hated or something you loved?

I always. Well, I hated cleans. And that was mainly because my ankles hated them. But I think my favorite memories of it and like favorite times was when we had our big group when I first started. Like, I think for the first year we had a massive group of track people and there's still some of my favorite memories of us all. Just kind of like you said, like laughing in the gym and I think it just made it so enjoyable. And I do love the sled push. That's always super fun.

Right on.

Yeah, I, I loved coming in when we had our big track group kind of the first couple years when I was there. And even still like just coming in and seeing the old athletes that are, you know, like Nicole and Alicia and Jesse and everyone like that, it's always kind of just nice. It seems like it's that the hub for all the big people that are athletes in London, which is exciting. And it's, it's been fun to see you guys kind of, you know, grow and become so accomplished and kind of, you know, feel that I kind of have been able to see that over the last, I think now, like, it's got to be almost like six years, seven years.

Yeah.

I think I started when I was in grade nine, grade 10, so it's been a while.

And you know what I noticed when you're talking about the environment of the fun and the laughter, what I always noticed about working with swimmers, working with track athletes, triathletes, with these sports that are individual sports that have such a massive amount of volume in training and such a hard work ethic from the individuals, when they got to come together to train as a group and do something different, like weight training or, you know, just specific prehab or anything like that, they, they were, everybody got so social they weren't accustomed to. Unlike a team sport where they're bantering back and forth in practice all the time, in the individual sports there was such a, you know, nose to the grindstone, were working so hard and on our own that we don't talk to each other. And then they'd get into the weight room and it'd just be like this, this cacophony of blah, blah, blah, blah. And you know, but for you it was, yeah, you had a lot of energy.

I.

There were. You would get your work done and you would work hard and at the same time I'd be like, Charlotte, you're over there right now, Charlotte. No, okay, those things. But, but yeah, it was a lot of, it was a lot of fun. You're just such a big personality in Such a tiny body and just larger than life all at the same time, and such a good worker as well. So, yeah, it was such a joy to have you there.

Thanks.

Would you say that your sophomore year was one of the biggest challenges that you've had to overcome, and what was the biggest lesson that you learned out of. Out of that challenge?

Yeah, I definitely think as of now, it's been. That was one of the hardest, I think, years of my life. And just with everything from, you know, going through a really terrible season and really struggling mentally and trying to go through, you know, treatment to get better and then as well as then transferring and moving to a new place and trying to start again. You know, when I moved, I really wanted to make sure that I wasn't forgetting what had happened. I was, you know, truthful to myself that, like, no, like, I still need to be taking care of myself and, like, just because I'm in a new place where, you know, people may not necessarily know me or, you know, weren't there last year, that I was still staying true to myself. And I think the biggest thing that I learned, honestly, was that I run so much better when I am enjoying it and that they're in something that is so, like, mile after mile and a lot of running and a lot of, you know, time spent just on yourself. That, you know, I am more than just a runner. And I think that that took me a really long time to kind of realize. And when I'm doing things that aren't just about distance running, I really thrive and having, like, a full, balanced life. You know, whether it be doing something outside of school or joining a club or, you know, having friends outside of the team. I think all those things that since moving to UNM has been something that's been really, really good for me. You know, I live with, you know, one of my closest friends that's a high jumper here, and then, you know, two other people that aren't even athletes. And I've been shadowing a vet twice a week just because I want to do something outside of running. And I think just finding things that I like outside of distance running because so much of my time and space is filled by that, that, you know, allowing myself to kind of when I'm off, done from practice and I'm out of the weight room and I'm done doing all the things I need to do for running that, you know, I allow myself to, you know, do other things and leave practice at practice. And I think that's been something that's really been good for me. And, you know, if I have, you know, thoughts going on in the day that are kind of, you know, spiraling around, like writing it down and, you know, coming back to it maybe, you know, at nighttime or if I'm at a coffee shop. And journaling has been really good with that. But other than that, just trying to, you know, be balanced and as cheesy as that is, like being happy in my running.

No, it's. It's huge. I especially appreciate the. That you're more than just a runner and. And then also that the journaling becomes so therapeutic in that way because you're getting everything out. Do you also seek to kind of make sure you have a checkpoint, like a therapy appointment or a group or something like that, to make sure you're not just left to your own devices?

Yeah, for sure. And I think the psychology piece of sports is so important. And I've been very thankful with, like, having that support, you know, both at UW and when I moved here and even at home. And, you know, I'll check in with, you know, psychologist or, you know, giving just even, you know, Janet or my sister or my mom or, you know, Jesse a call and, you know, just talking through things. And I think validating how you feel is something that's really important. I think it's really easy to kind of, you know, brush things aside and normalize a lot of things. And one, you know, putting stuff out in the world has definitely been something that's really helped me move on. When I posted my two blog posts, I think it was really therapeutic in a way for me to kind of, you know, take ownership of what had gone on for me and what was going on for me and not feeling ashamed of, you know, not being perfect and going through some really hard parts of my life and, you know, acknowledging that, yes, it was really hard and it still is, but at the end of the day, it makes you a tougher person.

Yeah. And really being able to love all sides of a person, not just the fun and happy and light sides, but the darker and deeper and whatever other sides there are too. Is there one thing if you had one suggestion for schools, so NCAA programs or national level programs to support high performance athletes struggling with, whether it's eating disorders or identity or depression. Do you have one suggestion that you would make for those programs?

Yeah, I think the big thing that I took away kind of with my experience is I wrote like a Dear NCAA Coaches blog a couple, like almost two years ago. I wrote it during my sophomore year and kind of continued it on through my experience of transferring. And I think just talking with people in the ncaa, like friends and going through, you know, two schools now, I think that one thing I wish coaches around the country would realize that it's not a single person. And I would hope that they would look at, you know, a bigger picture of it and allowing people to struggle and not isolating them, that people are going to struggle and that is okay and it's a part of it. And you know, giving them the support they need and whether or not that's from them as a coach or, you know, allowing them to seek help on the outside and ensuring that they know that they matter not just as their athlete but as like a human being as well.

Yeah. Not just as a commodity to a national team or a, you know, a number for the, for the school's reputation or whatever.

Exactly. Because at the end of the day I think an athlete is a reflection, not 100% on a coach, but it is as well. And if, you know, you've brought a kid from across the country or from a different country or across the world, like at the end of the day that they've trusted you with a big part of their life, like their career in sport, you know, they've moved from home and you know, to not take that for granted and not just, you know, push them away as a number and if they're not performing their best or they're not winning championships that, you know, they still have given you a huge part of their life and that, you know, they are a human being at the end of the day. Yeah.

Some quick, quick questions to have people get to know you a little more in terms of the things outside of your sport. What might be a favorite book that you enjoy?

I'm reading a new book right now. I just started the other day and I'm almost finished. It's called the Mindful Athlete.

Nice.

And that's been really, really good. But I think my favorite.

Who's the author of that?

Let me look. I have it right here. I know it's. It is George Mumford and Phil Jackson. It's kind of like about Michael Jordan.

And.

So the Zen Master with Phil Jackson.

Yeah. So that's been really good. But I think my mom would make a joke that the only book I've ever read is it's called the Butterfly Lion. I read it probably hundred times when I was growing up and it's like a really short, like 50 page kids book and I even still have it like on my nightstand if I can't fall asleep.

So the Butterfly Lion. That's awesome. And what would you say is a favorite movie or type of movie?

Oh, my favorite movie is accredited to Jessie. She showed it to me, and it's her family's favorite movie. And I love it. Probably the same. It's the Secret Life of Walter Mitte.

Nice.

And it's a great movie. The cinematography is amazing, and it makes me want to go to Iceland so bad.

Well, they went. Their whole family went.

They went because of that movie. And I was so jealous. And still to this day, I'm jealous of it all.

What about your favorite food? Food or dessert?

Ooh, I love. There's this restaurant here in Albuquerque. It's like a Albuquerque kind of, I guess not chain. There's only two of them, but they have this vegan chocolate cake, and I love that.

Oh, good Lord, you're talking my language.

So I probably say that. But I also. I love ice cream and a good, like, pumpkin chocolate chip bread is always good to me as well.

Talk to me. I've got a sweet tooth.

Yeah.

And you obviously like coffee.

I love coffee.

I'm with you on that.

So does Paul.

Yeah, so does Paul. Are you vegetarian?

I am vegan.

You are vegan.

Excellent.

You'll have to give us some tips because Paul and I are looking to do. We might.

I don't know if I'm ready to say this yet, because we're not fully there.

Well, we're doing it for sure. January, no meat.

Yeah. Yeah, in January. But we might be committing to a whole year of challenges. So in January, being meatless. And so we might be asking you for some tips because we. The biggest challenge is we'll post some recipes. Yeah, the biggest challenge challenge is not like we love vegan and vegetarian meals, but the biggest challenge for us is being able to cook something quickly for a lot of us and that kind of thing.

Yeah, the big fan.

Yeah, exactly. So very good. What about favorite workout right now since you're still in sport? It could be a track workout, could be a weightlifting workout. Do you have a favorite thing that you really like that day that you get to do?

Blank. I think my favorite kind of workout we do here is so every Friday we do like a tempo run. So like a threshold run. So at a pace that's hard, but is working like our, you know, our anaerobic and everything like that. I'd say that's probably my favorite part. Just because, you know, a coach will bike beside us and have A speaker, it's usually a group of three or four of us and it's like seven miles. And it's hard, but you leave it. And you know you're not killing yourself, but you just feel really fit and really good at the end of it. And I think it's been something that, when I first moved here, was a big piece of getting really fit and really, you know, strong over a long period of time. And I think especially at altitude here in. Altitude.

Yeah. You're. You're at 1600 meters there. Is that right?

Yeah. So we sit at, I think, yeah, 5,500ft about. So it's. Yeah, yeah, right at that. Good. That sweet spot of altitude training. So, yeah, I think that that's one workout that I always leave and I feel really, like, accomplished for the day.

I think we need to go and visit you in New Mexico. I think that'd be a nice little adventure.

Yeah, you just want the cake.

Yeah, that's right. You gotta come in October for the balloon fiesta. It's something that I think everyone has to come and see. It's. You have to wake up very early. I will admit it's like 5, 4, 35am Wake up. But you go down to. It's called the Balloon Fiesta park, and hundreds of balloons go up at like 7am and it's.

That's cool.

It's amazing.

That's really neat. That's really neat. Now, I have one little burning question here that. That speaker that the coach has when they're on the bike, is that music or like a coaching speaker to tell you what to do?

Oh, no, it's music. Yeah. I would not allow the speaker of being yelled at. I would not have that.

That's what I was picturing because it sounded too enjoyable to be a coach barking like, you know, straighten your knee or something, you know.

No, that would be horrible.

So what. What music do you want playing over those speakers or what do you get?

Usually I'm hooked up to the speaker, so I get to pick, which is great.

Surprise.

Yeah, I do like, like 80s and 90s, like R& B, hip hop or like songs from like, the Guardians of the Galaxy playlist.

Little Salt and pepper.

Yeah.

Peppa. Yeah, Good stuff.

Bel Biv Devoe.

Great.

Ja Rule. Some. Yeah, that's usually some good stuff. But our coach likes some EDM music thrown in there, so sometimes we have that, but.

Too funny. And lastly, do you have a tip to young runners up and coming into the sport? Just starting to sniff at a little more success Here and there. Any tips that you can give?

I think the one thing for me that I'm most thankful for is, you know, not being all in on running and being really intense with it at an early age. I think for myself, with Janet and, you know, with you guys in the weight room and with my coaches in high school, it was always just really fun, and it was doing enough to get the work done but not making it, you know, too intense. Because when you're in, you know, elementary school and high school, like, you want to enjoy it and, yes, you want to be successful and be able to, you know, if you want to go to college, run fast enough to do that. But, you know, when you're that young, it's really easy to, you know, do too much and not, you know, give yourself a longevity of a career past that. So I think enjoying it when you're young was something that I'm very, very thankful for because I think it's allowed me to continue to progress and, you know, not be burnt out before, you know, my career really could even start.

Parents, are you listening?

Yeah, exactly. Exactly. We get a lot. There are a lot of. I would, I don't know, rabid parents in sport. Is that too strong of a term?

No, I very much agree with that. There are definitely parents that think that they have to be super intense right away. And I'm thankful my parents were always just like, well, try this. Do you have to go run again? Like, are you sure? Just take the day off. So I'm very thankful for that.

It's such a big cue to have for parents, for the kids to be leading the. Especially by the time they're, you know, double digits, they're 12, 13, 14, that they're wanting to do more of the thing versus the parents. Pushing them, pushing them, pushing them. You know, that's such a big, big cue right there.

Yeah, for sure.

Do you have anything else that you want to add for. For our listeners? Anything you want to share?

Not that I can think of, no. Tune in to NCAA cross country and three weeks and I will be running and hopefully not feet of snow in Madison, Wisconsin.

So, seriously, it's gotta be chilly. That is risky. Yeah, that'll be interesting, especially when you're not at all acclimatized to that kind of thing when you're down in New Mexico.

I need my Canadian roots to really kick in for that.

Exactly, exactly. Well, we're so grateful to have you on, and I'm really, really happy that you felt comfortable enough to share some of the things you've gone through, I know that that will make a real difference for other people. And we're just, you know, so amazed and impressed at everything you've done. You're. You're an incredible human being and an incredible athlete and we're really, really sorry. Fortunate to know you.

Oh, well, thank you. It's been. I'm really glad you guys asked and it's been awesome to be able to, you know, stay with you guys at empower and you've helped me develop my, you know, my strength side of it. So I appreciate all you guys do well.

You're amazing, Charlotte. And your bubbles in my mind, because your beautiful personality. Oh, that's where I think it comes from. So thank you for your time today.

Yeah, thank you so much, Charlotte.

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