EP16 Doug Bruce - Volleyball / Ultra Runner

This is the Empowered athlete podcast, episode 16. On the show today, Kari and I welcome Doug Bruce, former setter for the Canadian National Volleyball team. I had the honour of playing on the hard court with Doug for a number of years for Team Canada and got to put away some of his sweet sets that he dished up for me. But the conversation today isn't about volleyball. It's about what Doug has done afterwards. And it involves a hundred mile race through the mountains of Colorado, the legendary Leadville 100. Doug's story and what he went through to complete this race is nothing short of incredible. Buckle up for an incredible conversation with Doug Bruce and his story from the Leadville 100. The calendar reads 2019-01-9. It is 2019, which means the 1230 challenge has begun.

And that means we're into our January challenge, which is no meat. Meatless, yeah, that can be bad or good, but we're seeing it as good because it's challenging ourselves to grow into learning new recipes and trying new foods. So it's going to be an awesome thing. And you can join us too if you would like. For the remainder of the month or if you don't like this challenge, join us next month. We've got all kinds of challenges coming up this whole year, one each month.

They're going to be great. They're going to improve ourselves, our relationships, our community, all kinds of things. And it is absolutely free. Just click on the link in the show notes and you're in. Tell your friends.

Be part of our community. Typically in gym clothes. I find it such a treat to get dressed up and go out. Paul says I clean up well. We both love nice watches and I just found a company that's a perfect fit for both of us. Welly Merc watches are Swiss made high fashion accessories that we love. And guess what? We have a discount for you. 15% off any men's or women's watches. Just go to wellymerc.com that's W E L L Y ME R C K.com and use discount code W K A R I 15. So that's capital W, capital K, A, R, I and 15. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast. Created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Dorden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Here we go, another episode of the Empowered Athlete podcast. And our guest today, a great friend. And it's someone who made me look amazing on the volleyball court. He used to be a Setter for the national volleyball team. But since he's retired, he's gone on to even bigger and better things. We've got Doug Bruce joining us today. Doug, how are you doing?

Pretty good, thanks. How are you guys doing? Good.

Welcome. We're super excited to have you and it's great to be able to interview friends and people that we know a fair bit about, but also who are just in awe of because of everything that you've done. So just for the audience, you've got an extensive history in volleyball. You've played with a national team for a decade, I think, and also played pro in various European countries. You had a really renowned university career in Canada as well. So you've been referred to as a top setter in Canada. And. And then we really are excited to get into your most recent endeavor, which is ultra endurance. So if any of you listening out there can imagine going from a power sport to ultra endurance training, it's. It's a whole nother ball game. So lead us in here, Doug, to kind of that, that transition, I guess, or you know, maybe a little bit about your, your pro career and your national team career and what it was like for you transitioning to kind of the real world of work.

Sure, yeah, it's. And I'll just correct you that Paul always made me look good, so.

Oh, come on, make sure we understand that.

But yeah, I mean, I guess started out in volleyball like anyone high school kind of sort of made it my choice to excel. I always tell this one, I was on a basketball team second half of the year in grade 11, and our club volleyball coach called our basketball coach to see if I would be able to have more time to train with the volleyball team. So my basketball coach said, you know, you can either try to be a great all round athlete or try to excel at one sport. So I left the basketball team at that point. So yeah, so yeah, then went on to university, I guess that same year in grade 11, I probably would have played against Paul for the first time, I think In Montreal maybe. NTCC's. Yes. Holy.

That's going back while back.

Yeah. So. And then we had a pretty nice rivalry there for a Couple years with NTCCs and Canada Games where you handed it to us.

I had helped though.

So yeah. Then I went on to university where basically that, you know, led me on my path for my national team and pro career. Terry Danilik there basically took me as a middle blocker and changed me into a setter. So without that, you know, I'm Sure. I wouldn't have gone as far as I did.

Well, and just so everyone knows, Terry Danilock set for the Canadian national team for years. One of the greats, really fantastic guy, crazy guy, always fun to be around. And, yeah, no surprise they wanted to change your position there. But what do you have a. Just touch on your relationship with Terry? I mean, it's. I don't want you to glaze over it too quickly, just what influence he had on you as a younger player.

Yeah, I mean, it was huge. I might not have gone to U of A had Terry not took the position. He. He took the position in my grade 12 year. And I was looking at other options either down south or other universities in Canada. Yeah. So if Terry's not there, I probably don't go there in the first place. Just knowing the respect he had and, you know, like you said, the level he was at. So. Yeah, and just, you know, the knowledge base and the experience he gave me was huge. And again, I don't get to where. Where I got to without his guidance.

And had you stayed as a middle, you certainly wouldn't have gone beyond university.

You think I would agree with that. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And it's his foresight and vision that really brought you further and then being able to guide you as a setter.

That's right. And, you know, I had a lot. I was lucky, too. He brought in a lot of other coaches. So remember at that time, there was Marv Dunphy, who was the Pepperdine coach at the time, but as you know, the former US Coach, and some of the Japanese national team coaches that he had worked with in the past. So he introduced me to a lot of great coaches that you sort of take the best from everyone. Right.

And at the same time, for a coach, it takes that humility as well as vision to be able to bring other coaches in and embrace their expertise as well and expose your athletes to a greater breadth of knowledge.

Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely.

So you had transitioned from university to the national team, and did you start playing pro right away in the off season from national team or how did that. How did that go?

Yeah, I guess, you know, I think there was that time maybe when Paul started where there was the national team training center, and then they sort of had dismantled that by the time I made the national team. So, yeah, I came right out of university, went to the national team, and then right into our pro season. So I guess I was with. I played a couple university Ed games when I was in university, and then I was with the national team for eight years and played. I played a couple more years in pro after I left the national team, but I think I was in Europe for Europe or Middle east for nine years. Wow.

Where was your favorite place to play pro?

That's tough call, you know, because I love France, and the year I was in France, there was a lot of the guys there, right? Yeah, I love Portugal, actually, because the weather was beautiful and the food was good and life was good there. So, you know, for different reasons, I think different leagues, I liked.

Oh, what? Oh, we lost.

We lost you for a second.

That's okay.

You said. You said for different reasons, you liked different places.

That's right. So for different reasons. So I like the food in Portugal, but, you know, the volleyball, the level is a little better in France than compared to Portugal, as well as, you know, there was a lot of Canadians playing in the league that year.

Were you with Joelle then.

In Portugal? Yes, but she wasn't actually there. So at that time, those are the last couple years I played. And Joelle went back to school at unb, so she would fly over where I would be back there when I could be. So she was there, you know, maybe for a month or so, but she was actually in nursing school back at Unblocked.

And what was that long distance like for you guys?

Was that.

Was there pretty. Some pretty low points in that distance situation?

Yeah, it was tough, but I think we kind of realized because she was in Europe for a few years, and, you know, life in Europe can be tough for spouses. Right. Because there's, you know, she wanted to be independent, she wanted to work. It was tough to get work without a visa, but it's tough to get a visa without work. So she decided she wanted to go back to school and get into nursing and got into that program. So we kind of knew there was going to be a transition period. She went back. It was a two year accelerated program. We kind of knew after she was done that that would be sort of the end of my career, and then we would make the transition to support her career.

Mm.

And I want to ask, how did. How did you feel about that, having, you know, that. That time limit on your career, that the, you know, it was counting down to the end. Were you. I. I just. I asked because I know that I basically stopped when my boys were getting older and felt I shouldn't be away. Wanted to be around them, but also didn't want to stop. And it meant forcing Kari and to, you know, moving her business and all kinds of change and stress that way. How was it for you?

I think it was. It was tough knowing it was coming. It was the same sort of with the national team. I struggled if I wanted to go back for that last or for another quad, you know. So I remember, you know, I can remember in the bus when we lost in Japan, the last chance qualifier and I remember thinking, you know, I don't know if I'll come back. And the rest of that summer I was at the lake and enjoying myself and then did go play pro. But we kind of had sort of that idea and then you know, it became almost at that time not I wasn't as passionate about it and it became. I was, I was hurt more often. I was in physio more often. It was a little harder to get up and be like really excited to get to the gym. So I kind of knew it was time to move on.

And you had your degree at this point and knew what you wanted to go into or what was it like. I mean your body was telling you some certain things. Mentally you were kind of ready to make the shift. But what, what was. Did you have to start looking for work? Did you take a year off? Like what, what did that, that all look like?

Yeah. And that, you know, that was a big challenge actually. So Joelle, I graduated so we went back to Edmonton. I did have an arts degree but it wasn't going to take me anywhere. I, I started working for a financial company and I was working as a. Mostly as a mortgage broker and I didn't mind it. You know, it's kind of what you get out of it was what you put in. But I remember one night, you know, there was a co signer calling me from Korea at three in the morning and I said to myself this is not for me, you know. So I didn't want to be on the clock 24:7. So like Joe then, you know, she was done and into started her career. I kind of went back and did some research as to what I really wanted to do. So I, I found that it was more of an engineering type thing and mathematics background. So I, I went to Nate, our technical school here in Edmonton and checked out a program and it was geomatics engineering it's called. So I, I thought that might be the right fit. So I started working for a engineering firm for about four or five months and then, and really enjoyed that. So I went into this two year program and it was an accelerated program as well and then challenged all the professional exams that were required to become a Canada land surveyor. So I was lucky too. While I was there, I was working for end up getting hired by the federal government and then they were able to transition me into a full time position. So that's what I've been doing the last nine years.

I guess that that sounds like it just fell into place and I mean, I don't know. Did you, did you have a point there where you were between. Between the hating the one job and then looking for what you wanted to do? Did you have this point where you were kind of like what am I, what I am, what am I cut out for? What do I want to do with my life and this isn't it right now? Did you like it sounds like it all fell into place so beautifully. But was there kind of a point that you just didn't know what the heck was going to happen?

Yeah, I think again with that financial company, I was really unsure and that was just the start of actually downturn in the economy. So, you know, I got out at the right time because I don't think people were doing too well in that business afterwards.

So right around 2008, 2009.

That's right, yeah. So I think I knew though, as soon as I, because working for that engineering firm, I was pretty confident that that's what I wanted to do. So I went. When I went back to Nate and you know, it's different, right. When I was at U of A, I was there more for volleyball and I wasn't as focused on the school itself, so I'd let that go and. But this, the focus there was just for me to learn and to excel as much as I could. And again, you take what you learned from sport, right, and apply that like working well under pressure with groups and individuals, all the parallels that we have in sport, I tried to apply it to that and so just kind of. I knew while I was there, so I was there, I'd be in and out. We had Dylan while I was in school, so I mean it's busy but I did know and then yeah, like you said, it did really fall into place as to the position opening that I wanted. And yeah, it's worked out great for me.

So I want to know that obviously the work side of things in your life fell into place and became more and more solid as you went through, found the job, had that stability. What was going on for you, for your competitive nature. I mean you were one of the best setters Canada has ever had and you competed at the highest levels and where did that go during the transition that. That compete level that you have and your, you know, just your love of general athletics?

Yeah, it's funny, it kind of. I wasn't really involved in sport at all. I kind of, like I said, try to use it as a parallel in sport, like that same kind of competitive spirit to do as well as I could in school and to, you know, to be the most prepared I could be, you know, for an exam. I was studying for other exams, too, because I took continuing education courses to. To speed up. So I would be down there on a Saturday. So I kind of got away from. From sport. We were in Regina for a few years during that period, too. And, yeah, I don't think. I mean, I barely touched a volleyball since, you know. Yeah, it was more. I was. I was studying a lot of the time, so. But I was again, trying to apply some of those. Those skills we had learned through sport.

And what were you doing in Regina? What was there?

So what happened was I got hired when I was at Nate. I got hired, like I said, with federal government, and I was a student. And then a position opened up that they offered me in Regina. So I kind of did some other interviews around Edmonton to see if we wanted to stay. It ended up taking us to Regina, and then I think we were there for about three years. And then when we had, I guess, the opportunity and some other things in our life that happened, we made it back to Edmonton.

Nice. Nice.

Okay.

So what a lot of people probably want to know and may not be able to understand is how you ended up transitioning to this incredibly grueling experience called the Leadville 100. And this is something that, you know, if people look up online, they'll see what this. This is all about. And it's quite literally 100 miles of going over the toughest terrain and mountains and you name it in Leadville, Colorado.

So, yeah, let me just. Let me just say, like, it's.

It's.

Don't look it up. We'll tell you right now that it is a hundred miles. And a hundred miles is a long way if you're running downhill. But Leadville is in Colorado in the mountains and downhill course of the race.

Yeah, you're.

You're climbing and descending over 15,000ft during the course of that race. The cutoff time to finish is 30 hours. You start, the lowest elevation you'll ever hit is 9200ft. So the air is thin no matter where you are on the course. And less than half of the people even Start, finish.

This.

This isn't just a race. This is legendary. Absolutely legendary. And just wanted to add that because people have to understand what we're talking about here is you're going to explain it.

So go on.

And also to get the sense of your size, you're not a small dude. You know, when people think volleyball players, they think tall. But, you know, you were also one of those volleyball players who wasn't just lanky and thin. Tall. You've got some size to you. You're not exactly ultra endurance material is.

What I want to say.

I think he's proven you wrong, though.

Well.

We do. We had to work on that.

What's the word for not stereotyping but you Body type stereotype. Kari.

So what do we call that?

Yes, I do.

I don't know, but we need a word for it.

I'm a body watcher. I always say I'm a body watcher. Do you know, I picked out. We were in Toronto once, and I picked out Tone Van Lengfeld's from like three blocks away. Couldn't see his face, but I'd worked with him long enough that I could see his body from three long city blocks away. I'm like, I know that guy. Yeah. You don't have the body for it, Doug. I'm sorry.

No. And I won't do it again, I'm sure.

Well, okay. So you. You got intrigued by a marathon first, right?

Yeah. Well, the kind of the way it went was for a couple years, I sort of wanted to run a half marathon. And so I think it was 2015 there. I finally just bit the bullet and signed up for a half marathon here in Edmonton. And it was in August, and so I ran that and then. And it hurt. You know, my. My dad, my mom and dad and my kids were at the finish line, and I remember my dad asking, you know, will you ever run a marathon? And I said, no, you know, there's no way. Why would I? And so then a couple weeks later, you know, I kind of heal up and I thought about it and I researched and found this marathon in Vancouver for May. So I signed up and I thought it'd be a good way, you know, try to get fit over the winter and things like that. And so at the same time that I'm getting into running, I read this book, I don't know if you guys have read this. It's called Born to Run, and it's all about this Mexican tribe of super ultra runners. And. And in it, it talks about Leadville So the creation of Leadville, and. But it talks about how insane this run is. And, like, you know, the creator talked to this doctor, and the doctor said, you're gonna kill people. And the creator was like, well, that's great, because it'll put us on the map. And so that's, like, ingrained in my head. So, like, anything, you know, you run into certain people and meet certain people, and your paths kind of change. So I was at my son's hockey game, and there's. There's one of the dads sitting next to me, and we start talking about running, and I tell him that I'm. I've signed up for Vancouver. He says, oh, that's kind of my thing. I. I've run on every continent, and. And he's really into it. And he's like, you said body type for a runner. He's quite short and slender. So, anyway, he. He says, well, we should start training together. So, I mean, Edmonton, we do get cold here, but we have awesome river valley, and the trail system is incredible. So we start. We start training together, and I think late in the spring, he says, well, I'm gonna. I'm running this Leadville 100. And I go to him like, you're insane. Like, that's crazy. He asked me to be a pacer. So the way it works, to expand on what Paul said, is that you run, it's a hundred miles, but it's 50 miles out and 50 miles back. So after 50 miles, you can pick up pacers that can carry your gear, you know, make sure you're focused, make sure you're eating, force feed you. Yeah, exactly. So. So then I went home and I thought, you know, I can't do that. And then the more I thought about it, I. I was like, more. I cannot do. Like, I have to do this just to check this out, just to see the environment. I knew that I'd only be running 17 miles and it would be with him after he's already run 60. So I thought, I think I can handle that. Right? So we get down there, and the same thing it was in 2016, in August of 2016. And the Olympics are on. So I'm like, I don't know how you are, Paul, but when the opening ceremonies come on, I get, like, really emotional. And they were. I mean, Canada was playing awesome, which was great. So I'm watching a lot. And it was on while we were in Leadville. And so after he ran the race, he cornered me and said, well, will you do it next year? And I was so caught up in the adrenaline of the. And the emotion of the Olympics, so I said, yeah, okay, I'll do it. So that's kind of how I got involved. And then. So then the way to get in, you can go through a lottery or you can hire a coach, or you can, I think, give charity. So he was working with the coach, so. So I met him there and basically signed up right on the spot. And then, of course, I mean, Kari got involved soon after so that I could. And I was working with both. So that's kind of how it all started.

And a whole lot of hours and a whole lot of pain and a whole lot of blood, sweat, and tears later.

Yeah, it was tough. And I think doing it that first year, I mean, you know, the volumes that. That we were putting in, it was. It was pretty intense. Can you.

Can you share just. I know that it's a long training process, but just give people a taste of what a few of your larger training sessions were like.

Yeah, I think, again, we started really like, Kari kind of had me prepped for January when I started working with this, the running coach. And, you know, the goal was to get up to about. About 80 or 90 miles a week, so it didn't matter how you got in. We would mix it up with hill training and intervals and fart licks and that kind of thing. And there would always be one long run, but then it would be, you know, maybe long run one day with another long run the next day, and the next day just working on tired legs. So it started, you know, not too, too bad. It just gradually built up for those eight months to about 80 or 90 mile weeks.

And then I had a training camp.

That summer, which was like a back to. Back to back to back marathon in Leadville. So you would run the camp or you'd run the trail over four days.

That's insane. That's just for people to really think about that. A marathon a day for four days in the mountains at altitude, it's. It just shows the volume of training you put in to even get there and complete that training camp.

Just.

Just mind blowing.

And the camp itself was tough because mentally, I didn't know what to expect. And, you know, like you said, the altitude hits you pretty hard. So it was excellent, though, in terms of a little bit of a confidence booster, knowing that I'd seen the trail, the entire trail, and that I actually kind of got through it, you know, so, yeah, so that was good. And then a couple other long, like, 50k trail runs I did that summer. So volume was pretty high.

But even, even to give, give people.

Like for people to really understand that.

In order to, at that time, like in order for you to get enough volume, bouts of volume, you'd do that. There was a 50k trail race, so you'd do that and then we'd have to throw something in there back to back with it. So you'd be doing a long run the next day or there was another time you'd have a half marathon one day and then do another super long trail run or half equivalent the next day just to try and keep building that volume. Because it's just, it's so time consuming to try and just get your body accustomed to greater volume over in, in what seems like a long time, but it's not. There's barely enough time to get you prepared. Even though we're dealing with. We had a year, we basically had, you know, a little less than a year by the time you were training for the Leadville then. But it's just like for a body that's never seen that kind of volume, it's hard to get enough in prior to that time.

Yeah, that's right. And, and I, I remember, I mean, you know, we had to do a lot of, a lot more rolling and things like that. Like things where my body was not mean do we were trying to make it do so a little more time with that sort of thing and stretching, you know, because I did have a little bit of back problem I can recall. But you know, nothing crazy actually considering when I look back at it, considering those volumes. So.

And just the, like, you had to do so much on the treadmill in the winter in Edmonton. Like there just wasn't enough outside side availability I guess you could say at certain months of the year. And then so, you know, we're trying to mix in stairs to get you some more elevation, just up and down kind of thing, get some decelling on the legs. Like there was just so much that we were trying to manage without the ideal scenarios. But ultimately you got to the race that year and, and what happened.

Yeah, so that's. Well again you go in. I went in a little blind. I had, I had gone to the camp, but you don't know what you don't know. Right. Like 100 miles. And so I tried to kind of copy what my friend did from the previous year in terms of a game plan. So the way it works is there's many aid stations, there's probably every 10 or 15 miles and and you have your crew. And so I had three pace or two Pacers with me that year. Joelle was the crew chief, so she's responsible for getting the Pacers.

Hey, sorry, Doug. Yeah, Doug, can you just start over on how you. From when you got there, the audio's just gone. It's like you're far away all of a sudden, bouncing. I don't know if you can just hold the phone to the mics by your mouth when you're talking and flip when you're listening, but sounds good.

Okay.

It's just weird.

Okay. Yeah. So basically the question was the start or how what happened in that race? Right. So yeah, yeah. So basically I tried to copy everything Mike did the year before in a lot of ways in terms of our preparation. So the food, the equipment, the sort of where my crew would meet, who would run in what stage. So the way it works is there's several aid stations throughout the course and the crew can meet you at those aid stations to change clothes, to give you a new pack, to give you new food, to have food, to encourage you, obviously. So we had a strategy. It was almost like as if a pregame in volleyball where the night before we sit down for an hour and a half and go over the strategy of what the run will be like. But of course, like volleyball too, you have to be adaptable during because you just don't know what's going to happen to you. So we had the game plan. I tried to follow his plan. You start at 4 in the morning, so it's pretty cold. You have your headlamp on and then, yeah, you start like there's 700 little fireflies running off into the distance. So then actually it is kind of the first aid station was, I don't know, 12 or 13 miles. So felt good. Got to the next aid station, it's about 25 miles. So now you're looking at, you know, you've just almost run a marathon. Change out all your clothes and all this, on to the next one. At about 40 miles. You hit really the hardest part where you go up and over what's called Hope Pass, and many people call it Hopeless Pass. So you climb. So anytime I was going uphill, I was power hiking. I never would run uphill. So you climb and then go over and then you're into Winfield at the 50 mile mark. So at that point I feel pretty good. We have our targets. I'm still ahead of cutoff times because that's the other thing. There's the 30 hour mark to finish the race. But you need to be at each aid station by a certain time or you'll be eliminated. So I get to the halfway mark, pull, get my pacer, you know, in this whole way, I'm just listening to music the whole time. So it was nice to have a pacer to actually talk to. We go back over the hardest part. It's two miles, really, really steep. And of course, you've just run 50 miles, so it's tough. So I. I struggled at that spot. That's the first part.

What did your. What did your legs feel like at that point? Like, you must have just had, like. Were your feet just on fire? Were your.

Above. Yeah, my legs are burning hard. My feet were. Because you run through a couple rivers. So my feet were pretty. Pretty blistered up by that point. And I remember going up that Back of Hope pass, and I think I was going too fast. Like, I'd have to lean over my poles every, you know, 50 meters to catch my breath. So, yeah, it was tough. My legs were burning.

But I. Doug, where. Where's your mind? I really want to know. What is your thought process in those moments? What are you. Are you just focusing on. Are you thinking one step? One step? Where does your brain go in that extreme, extreme environment in terms of your focus and thoughts?

Yeah, it's. It's. You know, again, I'd never been there before. Right.

Yeah.

In that position. So I sort of had a guess of how it would be, and maybe you guys remembered. You know, I think I asked most people I knew for a song, you know, so I had my playlist where a song would come up, and I would try to, like, associate that person or event with it to take my mind off any pain or the running itself. So I tried to, like, escape the actual pain of the run. And, I mean, for the most part, it worked, but obviously, you can't avoid it all. And there's thoughts that come in and creep in that, like, why am I doing this? You know, like, this kind of thing? But I was pretty strong that way. I never really, like, actually considered, you know, giving up. So, yeah, it was trying to get. Kind of get in at a different spot and different thoughts. So then, yeah, it was. It was tough. It's hard to explain. But you know what, it made it easier, though, the second time around, obviously, because I knew the. What to expect. So I get. Yeah, one of the worst parts, probably the run was. So the climbing was tough, and that's what really, really hurt. Then when we got over Hope Pass on the summit. I remember sitting on this log by this fire, just trying to keep warm because there was snow at the top. You know, it'd be beautiful during the day, it'd be snowing at the top. So mentally, I was kind of getting drained and. But then I was over the hardest part, so I got a lot of adrenaline back and, you know, had something to eat, so. But by this time, the sun's going down, so put the headlamp back on and my pacer and I start cruising. So I'm motoring downhill, feeling really good, and next thing I know, I pass this guy. He says, you know, nice work because it's a really cool community. It's not like you're. You're not trying to beat everybody. You're just trying to finish, right? So I hit this root or a rock, and the next thing I know, I'm on my back and I don't know what's happened. I'm looking up at the stars and the guy and my pacer try to pick me up and my calves just cramp like crazy. And so I'm like, no, put me back down. And the other guy takes off. And then, you know, so what they. I know that affected my legs for later in the run, for one, but it really made me tentative to run down, thinking that I was going to bail again. So I think I lost a lot of time because of that.

Yeah.

You know, and so, so carry on. We get to another aid station and feeling okay. But at this point now I'm seeing like, like the carnage, people hurting and like wanting to quit. And so we just had to get out of these aid stations so I wouldn't see anything.

Yeah.

But I think the other big problem, so the one was the hills, the cramps were one. And then about 20 some hours in, I just, I couldn't eat anymore. I was sick of eating. And I mean, like, as you, as you said, the bigger body, like, Yeah, I needed 350 calories an hour. So that's, you know, over 9,000 calories and of like gels and things like that.

I can't even stomach it anymore.

Yeah, yeah, it was just gross. And I was telling my pacers no way. And so. So really, I think the calories, I mean, that was a huge learning factor. So what happened was I make it to. I end up making it 87 miles and it took me about 27 and a half hours and I. It was 27 hours. You needed to be at that aid station by. So the problem Was. Is. I knew I wasn't gonna make it about an hour, hour and a half before that, just mathematically. So that weighed on me huge. Yeah, really, like. And you're already, like, fragile and hurting, so that hurt. So I remember thinking it, like, just to get to the end there, you know, again, why am I here? And, like, I didn't quit. I just didn't get there fast enough. But, yeah, I was pretty emotional when I got to the very. Or to that spot and was actually the last person on the course. Oh, God, yeah.

Oh, that's freaking heartbreaking.

And what. What did you tell yourself in that moment?

Far.

Oh, yeah, you can't really be like, I mean, I've just run 87 miles. It's pretty good achievement. But. But, you know, like, if you set out for the goal, you got to finish it. And so at that moment, when I finished, I was kind of like, I'll never do this again. That's what it. You know, I was thinking that. And I was in pain, and I was, again, emotional. My feet were banged up and, like, you know, like you said before, legs were hurting. So we go back. I remember Joelle, and my parents actually came down to see me suffer.

So thanks.

They picked me up and we went back to the house, and, you know, we're cleaning up my feet and all that, and then I. So I pull out a notepad, and that must have been a half hour hour after the race, and I start writing down, like, what worked, what didn't work, because I fully intended on coming back the next year.

So in 30. 30 minutes, you had decided. Made the decision.

You know, like, I think, you know, as you said, there was such a time commitment, and it was tough. You know, it's tough on Joelle's, tough on the kids.

It's a big sacrifice.

Yeah. And, you know, understandably, you know, the last. Especially the last couple months. Right. And when the volume's way up, you know, at first, I don't know if she really wanted me to run, and then. Then she was competitive and right in there saying, like, okay, next year when we do this, this is what we gotta do.

I love it.

So, yeah, I was like, all right, I guess I got the green light on that, so. And one of my pacers that were down there came back the following year, so we were all talking about, yeah, what we'll be doing to make this better. So. So get back to Edmonton. And then again, there's ways. The ways to get in are the lottery, the coach, there's another way if you get into that camp the first 50. So that's what I did. So I got in. So I knew I was going to be in the run. You know, we came back and debriefed and everything. And I probably took, I don't know, Kari Woods a couple months or month.

Yeah, barely.

I mean, I guess we were back at it. But.

But there was so much that was strategically different. I mean, even everything from your holidays to were you going to sacrifice this travel time in order to get to camp again? To, you know, there were so many things that were just. We looked at differently, like how much more volume was needed or should we focus more on quality? Like, they're just everything. Everything had a different perspective with the filter of looking through, having done it already and knowing. Knowing what. What needed to happen. Because now instead of being in that situation where you didn't know what you didn't know, now you knew. And it just, Everything was looked at from a different angle.

Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, and it's funny, right? I joke around about it, but, like, now I knew how painful it was and I go back and sign up again, right? Like, but again, it was just. I set out to do it and I just, you know, and I told myself that if I didn't do it that I wouldn't do it again, but I don't know, right? So.

Well, and I remember when we debriefed, like, the one thing, the one solace that you had in the whole thing was that you didn't give up. And like, I mean, I was, I was in tears for you in finding out that you, you had been pulled at that last, at that last aid station at that 87 mile mark, you had like a half marathon to go, which, you know, is like the longest and the shortest all at once. And I was just like, oh. And but to know you knew that you never gave up, you never gave up, and you could tell your kids that, and that was huge. And, and then. But there's this whole mental thing going into the second one because it's that, what if.

Well, what if.

What if I don't make. Make it again? You know, and you've put all that out there and you think of your buddy who ran and he got so.

Sick in the race, and there's just so many factors whether it could be just a bad.

You could have trained perfectly and so many things could have been so much better, and you have a bad weather day and you just, you can't do it right.

So, you know what it's like the.

Courage it took to go into it a second time is huge. Go ahead.

Well, it's exactly like, you know, a double down in Vegas where a gambler puts $1,000 down on a 5050 bet and loses and so doubles down his bet on that next one. And, you know, the pressure is rising exponentially. If, like Kari says, you don't finish that second time after putting in now double the amount of work and coming up short twice, you know, that, that third year of work, it's not equivalent because of the strain on the family and the strain on your body and the. It's an exponential, almost fear pressure that would mount.

So.

Yeah, so. So take us to the race this year. And how were you feeling? What was the mood and all of that?

I think. Well, you know, as Kari said, too, we had a different strategy, so we definitely reduced the workload and.

Which sounds counter. It sounds counterintuitive for most people, but it was the right thing to do at the time.

Yeah, absolutely. And I think so. Again, going back to all my notes, I had all these things written down after the race, and a big one was the. So, yeah, the reduced workload. But our kind of. Our idea was better recovery. And then, you know, I never got up to an 80 or 90 mile week ever. But where I think we. I or we, when we talked about it really increased was again, as I explained, the hills really crushed me in the first go round. So consciously I did way more hill repeats, way more climbing, way more stair work, and then got out to Jasper. I think I went to Jasper and climbed a mountain like seven times, and there was. I think I did it twice up and down, you know, two weeks before the race.

And that boosted your confidence a ton.

Yeah, absolutely. And. Well, and that's funny you say that because I did run the Vancouver marathon again and I had a way worse time than the year before. And that actually hurt my.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

You know, because then I'm like, oh, no, I'm going the wrong way.

But we didn't have the volume leading into it.

Yeah. And I think it was a good little. It was, it was good because as I recall, we talked about. After saying, well, we got to pick this up a little bit. Right?

Yeah.

So I didn't do the long distance runs like those organized runs this year, as Kari said, for the holidays and the vacations, I stayed. I trained basically in Edmonton or at the mountains nearby. I did do the camp, which was. Was huge again, because we. I went with two other guys that that were running with us in the past. So, yeah, it's just a focused few days where it's. All it is is, is running. You're at these forums with, you know, you got panels, talking expert panels, and you bounce questions off. So it's. It's really good. And then I was giving the same story, you know, about the making it 87 miles a year before, and everyone, same thing. They're like, oh, no. Like, you gotta get this right. So, yeah, so I think. And then again, the other big thing was figuring out how to get the volume of calories, you know, having failed that the year before. So, you know, tinkering with different gels I used ended up using ensure. You know, on the second half, I would. I would throw back and ensure at an aid station, which, you know, is like, I think it's about 350 calories. So right there, that gives me an extra boost. But I didn't know, like, are they gonna stay down? You just don't know. So I thought I was really well prepared, as I said. So Joelle, now this was her third year crewing, so she knew everything down pat. The pacer I had from the year before knew everything. And then I had two new pacers that between us, were great. You know, if you don't have these pacers in the crew chief like Joe, there's no chance that I get through this stuff. So, you know, we have a good meeting the night before. We have a game plan. The other thing the year before was on the. On the climbs, I'd use these climbing poles. They were coming apart on me. It came apart all the time, and it was just frustrating. I lost time and I was mad. So I had a different set of poles, you know, all these. Some new gear that I thought would be more useful this year, having learned it from the year before. So, yeah, figuring out the food. And I was good with most of the gear in terms of staying warm, but as Kari said, you just don't know what. What weather's going to hit, so. So I was feeling confident and then, but still anxious, obviously, because there's so much unknown we had planned. There was one other runner that I was running with, and we figured we'd go for about the same time. I was. I was aiming for. I just wanted to finish under 30, but you want to kind of stay ahead of those cutoffs to stay confident and. And not lose focus. So, yeah, I think going in, I was really confident. And the other thing we changed Kari leading up to it was I Guess it was before Christmas I totally revamped my diet so I did this vegan challenge and just to see how my body would react to that. So it was about 45 days of doing that and it was tough, but I thought it really helped just understand how I was feeling and the energy I'd have. Then about maybe eight weeks prior, I did sort of this 30 day clean eating challenge with a bunch of friends and I think I dropped about five or six pounds and got really lean. So losing that just before the race without losing energy I think is huge because carrying an extra six pounds around there. Yeah, it was massive. To lose that and not lose strength.

We also did was big. It was huge for you and you were, you were feeling. It was such an experiment all along the way because the question always was, how are you feeling when you're doing your long runs? Is it affecting you? We even tried having you go into a few of your long runs relatively fasted. So you, you know, you, you weren't in a, you were in a calor, caloric deficit going in. So you'd be more. I was hoping to have your body via repetition, burn more, more fat as fuel earlier on in your, in your training run than later in it just because you wouldn't have the glucose available. So like little things that were experiments over and over, but just the fact that you felt so good on the vegan eating and then it prompted you to keep kind of in that style of eating even though you reintroduced meat here and there, but it was so much less than what you used to eat and your weight was down. Like there were just so many little things that, that had you feel different and, and still felt good during training though.

Yep, absolutely. And you know, like you said, I did go back to the meat just for the extra calories with the training, but I did cut out dairy, you know, and just felt way better like again. And it's just introduced a whole new lifestyle for me on how I eat now. Uh, yeah, that, I think that was huge. So between the Hills Hill training and, and the diet, I think those, I mean again, I was going in really confident.

So take us through the race.

Yeah, well, it was, it was really fun this year because again my, there were two other guys from Edmonton and a friend of ours from West Virginia and another from North Carolina. We just had this massive house down there and so it's like a big family and social gathering and, and so we all get up, it's again a 4 o' clock start and start off and, and all of us had different goals. Some of the guys wanted to get, you know, break 25 hours. A few of us just wanted to get through it, you know. So we, we start off and it's, you know, it's that it's a problem with most races where everyone starts off way too fast. And I was very conscious of it, even though we had planned to be a little faster in the front half so that I wasn't facing those cutoffs. But we, so the guy I was running with, I think we were going a little bit too fast. So well, let's hold off and then. So I think we were pretty disciplined that way. To save the energy later in the race, get to the first aid station and then crew is there and I do a quick like get rid of my headlamp and put my sunglasses on, hat on, give them my sweaty jacket, keep going. So again that 25 mile mark, so everyone's there and then we look up into the mountain and there's some bad black clouds. And even the one of the race organizers comes over and says make sure you're prepared for that, right. So I put an extra raincoat and a long sleeve shirt in my pack and take off and I hit this mountain and it rains for about 45 minutes straight and just miserable, you know. And again, same thing I had, I had my playlist, just listen to music, trying to tune out and just think about other things and. But then like 45 minutes later it just kind of just disappeared. Blue sky all of a sudden. So like it's weird how you have these motions. You're, you're down and then I see the blue sky and all of a sudden I'm up again, you know. So I get to about 40 miles is another big aid station. Like I said, sort of the base of that whole pass get there feeling pretty good I think, I think my crew said I had to pick up the pace a little bit. I was behind a little bit what I wanted to be at. So eat quick there, climb Hope Pass, get over into Winfield is at the 50 mile mark and that's where. And that is about a half hour ahead at that point of last year's time. So probably a little slower than what I wanted to be. This at this time based on our, on, on our predictions. So eat there quick, pick up my pacer and we start hitting the worst part of the course again. And this year, you know, as I said before last year, I think I tried to do it too fast and I would be out of breath and my Heart rate would get way out of whack.

Yeah.

So this year I hit and it's like a two mile stretch and it was, it was cold, so I made sure I had my windbreaker on. And then all I did was put my head down and I'd count to 100 and take the littlest steps. But I never really had to stop that much. So it's like that, you know, go slower to be faster. So I count to 100 and then start over and count 100. And I just had my poles in a rhythm and like, again, I was taking like these baby steps. So. But getting to the top this year, I had so much more energy. It was incredible.

But you had no music at this point, right? Like, you, you were done, you were tired of music. You were just mentally fried.

That's right. Like last year, I listened to music almost all the time, and this time I barely did. In the second half, I kind of just relied on pacers and I mean, my mind was going places and I was thinking about other things to, you know, to get out of that pain. But yeah, I didn't put the music in this time. And I don't know, I don't know if that's something that helped or not. But yeah, I definitely did it in the second half. So I get to the top. There's aid station there, and that's where I was sitting at the log the previous year. So I'm feeling not bad. It's cold. But we hit, we hit the hills going down, and then we passed the spot where I bailed the year before. But it's still, the sun is up, so we're like positive, you know, this is great. We're ahead of where we were last year.

Yeah.

Then we do a pretty good job of getting down to the bottom. And there's this flat area at the bottom with this big long field that seems to go on forever. And my buddy calls it Vietnam. But we hit that and the sun was still up. It was going down, but we were so excited, we almost start sprinting. This is, you know, at 60 mile mark, like, oh, lifts, lay off. So then get to that aid station. And I end up spending a lot of time there because that's a aid station where now the sun's gone down, you got to change, you got to put on, you know, like, I had pants, two jackets, you know, a hat. Like, you got to get your headlamp on.

What's the temperature? What temperature would it be, roughly?

I think it was about it. Get down to about 2 or 3 degrees at night, so. And you're, you know, your body's fried. So hypothermia is a real issue there. So, you know, you got to be conscious of that. So I had, like, kind of a. A couple jackets, like a running jacket, one, like a, you know, a down jacket, and then took off. But we lost a little time there just because we took so long, but we were still ahead of the game. And then. So then we take off. We get to the next. The next eight stations at about 65, 66 miles, something like that, and feeling good. Get inside, have some potatoes. There's some warmth there. People are starting to quit in there, but we're feeling good. We get in and out of there. And then I would say at about. There's the next aid station, about 75 miles. At about 74 miles, we just get dumped on with rain. Like, hard, hard, hard rain. And now it's cold. I'm wearing this down jacket that just sucks. Oh, God, I'm dying. And I'm thinking. All I'm saying is hypothermia, like, I'm not gonna. How am I possibly gonna get through this? So we get to the aid station. The way we contact, you know, Pacer would phone ahead to say kind of our time. Cause they're not gonna wait at the aid station for hours and hours, right?

Yeah.

So it's coordinating that. So they get there, but it's pouring, and so they're not going to just stand around outside. And so we get there, we have all my gear, so I have a bag. And then we just go through what I need. And we had a plan. Right. But we didn't see this one coming.

Yeah.

So I just try to get as much dry clothing as I can. And at this stage now, I change my Pacer. So she used fresh, ready to go. And I get as dry as I can. And then we take off from that aid station. And luckily, the same thing happened as before. It just cleared up like stars. And, you know, it was fine. So now I'm not wet any longer. So again, I get this surge of adrenaline because, you know, now I'm like.

It's like these. It's like these refreshers going, okay, you can do this still. You can do this still.

Still.

Like, your brain just kind of goes, oh, there's a chance, you know?

Totally. And. And, I mean, in 10 minutes later, I'm saying, there is no chance, you know? Yeah. So it's like, it was a good rebound. And then. And then so Then this. I didn't really explain. There's another portion after this 75 miles that just crushed me last year. It's this long power line, it's called. And it seems to go on forever. And that's really where what ended me last year. And so. So I did the same thing on this section as the last one. I just put my head down and. And took little steps, counted to a hundred. And at this time, you know, the previous year, I'm starting not to eat. So I told the pacers to, you know, to do whatever you could. And they were really, really good and creative. And, you know, even if I got a quarter of a gel down every 10 minutes, they just keep me kind of putting stuff back, you know, so. And I. I had flashbacks. You know, there's these waffles that you can eat. In the last year, I was gagging on them, so I couldn't eat them, you know.

So those are stinger waffles.

Yeah, exactly. Those are cookies.

They're so good.

I know, I know.

But, you know, 24 hours in.

So they're. All the pacers did a great job. And so we're. We get over this. This hill, and then again, another surge of adrenaline because I'm like, I got here, and I'm not really watching my watch now at this point because the pacers were kind of giving me the pace as well as the time. So, yeah, we get over. And then I recall, like, at this point, my back and my glutes, it just tightened right up. So every little step is hurting. If I was off balance a little.

Yeah.

And I can recall we're kind of at the bottom of the hill, and there's this sort of rolling hills, and my pacer, she. I'm not eating very much, so she gets mad at me. You gotta eat this. And takes my one pole to make me eat. And then I hit this little rolling hill, and without the pole, my back's, you know, start seizing up my glutes. And I did, like, yell at her, like, give me the damn pole. So. But it was effective because then I finally had to eat it. So she gave me the pullback. But, yeah.

Yeah, so that was that one time. And I was like, did you. Did you lose it at any point? You're like, yeah, I kind of lost it on my pacer.

Yeah. Well. And actually, the year before, I was pretty good, but, yeah, this one I did, like. Yeah, but she. She did whatever she. She needed to do. Right?

Took it like a champ.

Totally. And, like, I didn't know her very, very well.

You haven't spoken since.

So. So anyway, we. We pull out of this. This area. I remember there's a couple bridges, and we pull out, and all of a sudden we're at the aid station, the 87 mile aid station. And I'm like, what the heck? Like, we're here already. And I look at our watch, and so this is where I get eliminated last year. And I was there in 27 and a half hours, and we were there in 25 this year.

Amazing.

Yeah, you wouldn't believe the feeling because I sit down in a chair and I'm like, like you said, I. I have this half marathon, and it's the easiest part of the course. It's still rolling hills, and not like it's hard, but it's easier, relatively.

It's not a mountain.

Yeah, no, that's exactly right. So then I know that all I have to do is get there in five hours. So as long as I keep, you know, eating enough and don't fall or, you know, hurt something, then I've got it. So the one pacer, then I'm switching pacers again at this point. But first pacer, he's saying, okay, you got to get there in 28 hours. And I think to myself back my mind, I'm like, no way. I'm walking in and going in four hours. So, like, whatever. So then we leave, and the fresh pacer is trying to get me to go, and I'm like, nope, nope.

I will crawl across that finish line. Damn it.

Yeah. And so. And I made the mistake of. I thought in my mind it was a really easy section of the course, but. So I didn't want to carry my poles and. But it was rolling. And so my. It was miserable. Last 13 miles where my glutes were. Were fried. And then it. It was the sun. Like, the sun was still down, but it was cold morning. And you're around this lake, so you just get this wind. And it was just the worst march back, but knowing that I was gonna get there obviously helped. So. Yeah, so we come over this, like, the hill to get back into Leadville, and you can kind of see there's some stands, and you can see the timer. And that's huge, mentally, right, to get to that spot. So, yeah, I mean, then the whole.

Group, we all kind of got goosebumps just picturing it.

Yeah. You know, I. I thought I would be, like, fairly emotional. And I think I remember one of my pacers saying, I can't believe you Weren't losing it. And I was like. I don't know if I had, like, anything in me, you know, but. Yeah, so it was pretty crazy. So I came in, I think, at 2909, something like that. So, yeah, it was. I mean, obviously it was. I mean, it didn't sink in right away, I suppose, but, I mean, yeah, it was pretty nice.

It's so freaking incredible, though. I mean, like, it's just you. Nobody can take that away from you. And you.

You did it.

And you did the ultimate thing by. By doing it after you didn't complete it the first time. Like, it's just unbelievable. So. Yeah.

Kind of what I like about it, too. Right. Is that it's not like it's one of those things of not being afraid of failing and trying to learn from those previous experiences. Right.

Yeah. Amazing. Totally incredible. So there's the obvious question.

Everybody knows what that question is. Is there a third one?

No. Some of the other guys are going back. Yeah. A couple of the Pacers I have see, just like my story are interested in doing it.

They've got the bug.

Yeah. And it's for all the same reasons I did, you know, and they've been working on me to try to try another one. Not necessarily Leadville, but there's so many now. But we love it down there now. So I could see myself going as a pacer, you know, next year, totally coming forward.

So I wanted to pace. You asked me to pace, and I wanted to pace for you, but my. I had a back injury on that first one. And then the second one, I was taking my oldest to university, and every time I'd be kind of like, just thinking about it, and I couldn't even really talk about it anymore because I thought it'd be such a fun adventure to. To pace in it. Like, I didn't want to do the whole thing, but I would have for sure paced.

Oh, yeah. Well, that's. And that. Then you would have done it next year. Exactly. Exactly. Yep. But it is. It's that atmosphere, and then it's with the people. Like, like I said, there's. And it's the people all the way through. Like, I feel like, for me, because there was a lot of people that played a part in that preparation last year, you know, with all of our challenges, it was like kind of surrounding yourself with the right people and, you know, the people that motivate or inspire and support and challenge you. Right. And like the people that fill up your cup kind of thing. So, I mean, I. I Don't get through it without those people. And I mean, so, like, it seems like it's this individual thing.

No, it's team.

It's huge. Exactly. Yeah.

And.

And when you. When you listen to this later on, you're going to actually hear that you never described yourself racing as.

I.

As you told the entire story of the race.

It was. We.

Yeah, those were your words. It is a team.

You.

You made that clear.

And. And it's. That. That's the addiction. It's not the. You know, when we say you got bit by the bug or you, you know, you caught it. It's not the race. It's not the. It's the. It's the camaraderie. It's that feeling of overcoming something that seems insurmountable. It's that thing that has this heart, this real heart and pride and push that's larger than yourself, and all of that is the thing that you were addicted to. It's not. It's not the Leadville per se. And what will keep you going back is that feeling, you know, not the suffering, not the. Not to say you did the hundred miles. It's the. To be with those people and to feel the same feeling together with everyone. Like, it's. It's something that other people not having experienced, something like that, it's. It's really hard to describe. And that's why we want your story, because we want people to understand that when you transition from sport and you feel lost and people feel alone, they don't feel understood when they go from being in the top level of sport and they go into the real world, and the real world doesn't seem to understand what you did or who you are. But this story really points to. It's out there. You can find other things that really bring that same feeling of connection and bring that same feeling of uniqueness and something that's so challenging, like, there's lots of other things out there. It's just a matter of putting yourself out, being brave, putting yourself out there to try these types of things.

Yeah. And again, I'm sure being afraid of failing and trying to learn and learning through the previous experience, you know, because, like. Like not quitting and, you know, knowing you're gonna suffer, knowing that there's gonna be physical pain and there was physical pain, but knowing that that physical pain will heal and go away. And there, you know, there's worse. There's many worse pains than that. So in the back, my mind, I'm like, yeah, I'm hurting, but I know in three months I'll be okay. And I've done this before. It's just, we got to get through this. Don't quit. Take one step at a time and just keep moving forward. And I mean, you can apply that to a lot of things, but it was like, you know, I know it's gonna be painful, but I'll survive, you know?

Yeah, exactly. What I'm gonna wrap up here with a few questions that I think people would love to know about you. What would you want people to know about you that most don't? That might be something unique about you or, you know, who knows what? But what's. What's that kind of thing that most people don't know about you?

Oh, that's a good question.

You make a mean tortilla soup.

You know that?

I can attest to that.

Actually, that is one thing, is that I'm on a massive soup. Kick the tortilla, one mushroom. I make a lot of soup.

Oh, that's. That's awesome. We should do a soup challenge. Hun. You know what we're doing? Okay. So, Doug, we are doing a whole year of 30 day challenges. Paul and I wanted to challenge ourselves and we're gonna actually invite anybody who wants to join us on these. And each month is a new surprise. We know what they're gonna be, but each month is a new surprise. So you can join us in that if you want.

Yeah, by the time this airs, we'll be in the middle of it, so it'll be interesting to see where this episode falls. But yeah, we'll be into one of the challenges.

But that's okay because people can join in at any given time, but they could start at the beginning or they could go all the way or join in whenever they want.

Okay.

You make your own challenge. It'll be a two week challenge for those people.

Yeah, exactly.

So what was something that was really small? Maybe in your volleyball career or training for Leadville, but a really small thing or action that had a really big impact for you for either sport or your life or relationships. What was one little thing that's made a big impact for you?

One little thing, eh? Well, I think if we go back to Leadville, it's like meeting, meeting my buddy that I did it with. You know, like it's. If our kids aren't playing on the same hockey team and I'm not having that conversation and you know, again, just.

Never would have happened.

This never would have happened at all. And in such a short period of time, you know, like from. From the day I ran that first half marathon was the exact day I started Leadville, because it's two days, but it was three years. Exactly. And I remember telling you my, like, I wanted to do half marathon to 100 miles in two years. It didn't pan out, but three years is not so bad. So.

Yeah, yeah.

Met him. You know, I wouldn't have. Wouldn't have gotten any.

Your life has changed.

Your life has absolutely changed.

Like I said earlier, you know, when you meet certain people, that's just what happens. Right. So. Yeah.

So what's your. What's your favorite food or dessert now?

Dessert. Well, food. I don't know where I'm still like, I'll go the. The pizza route for sure.

Oh, yum.

Yeah. You know, Paul, hit it. The tortilla soup. Like the soups were making a lot of those.

Yum.

Perfect time of year.

Yeah, it is. That's exactly. It cooled down here, so we'll make it in bulk. Dessert wise. I'm pretty simple on desserts. You know, I'm not massive. Sweet tooth. But I suppose in a hot summer it may be just some. Some regular old ice cream.

Nice. And favorite movie?

Well, I have to go back to the original. My. Well, I've always loved the Godfathers. I do like Braveheart because it's all got the Bruce name in there. Right. I remember. Maybe you remember this, Paul, but like, the American guys would give me a hard time on the court and just like chirping me across the net saying that Bruce is not to be harmed.

That's awesome.

And do you have a favorite book?

My favorite book be. I think maybe Pillars of the Earth might be up there. I think it's. I haven't read it in a while. It's like Medieval Times and it just talks about how crude and ugly the world was then.

Cool.

Cool.

Yes.

No, I love it.

Yeah.

And then Ken. I don't know if I'm pronouncing Ken.

Ken Follett. Oh, yeah, yeah.

And then what was your. What's your favorite music? Have you like some music just dead to you now since the Leadville, or do you have some favorites still from that?

No, I definitely will have favorites. Like, you know, like I said, the first year, what I did was get those songs from everyone, so they still have association. Right. And then. Then I had a lot of new playlists this year that I was using that. That made me think of. Of certain things. So what I had was two. Two shuffles basically. And every aid station I change out my watch and my shuffle to have them recharged. So for 10 miles I'd have the old stuff from the year before and the next 10 miles I'd have the new stuff. So I was flipping back and forth, but. But basically I like pretty much all music. I'm just not a massive country fan.

Sound like Paul.

Yeah.

Did you have 100 miles and running by NWA in there?

That's.

That's because you recommendation.

Yeah, of course I had that on. And you know what, I just don't.

Know if it ever made it in.

I actually passed that one on someone else I know did a like a 50 mile ultra recently. I said, oh, you got to put this in your playlist. Thank you very sumi for that.

All right, and last question. Any tip to young upcomers in either volleyball or ultras? Anything that you want to pass on?

Well, you know, kind of what I said before, like just like surround yourself around the right people, like the people that will, will support you. Because that's huge, right? It keeps you going, it keeps you on, on target. Because you train for something like this or for elite volleyball, whatever it is, there'll be times where you might lose focus or lose your way a little bit. So having those people to kind of help you and direct you, you know, and then again, just, just, you know, learn from your experience and don't quit, don't give up. But like, rather than being scared to try it, just, you know, learn what went wrong and then just kind of try to adjust and go forward from there.

Doug, we really, really appreciate this talk so much and those are such wise words to pass on and so many people can learn from what you've been so brave to go through to accomplish your goal. We are honored to have you as a friend and we really, really appreciate your time in providing this interview. So thank you, Doug.

Thank you so much, Doug.

Awesome.

Yeah. Thank you guys.

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