EP18 Liam Mather - Track & Field

This is the Empowered athlete podcast, episode 18. Today on the show, we welcome a rising star of the track and field world, specifically the 110 meter men's hurdles. Our guest is Liam Mather, a young gentleman from London, Ontario, who Kari has had the chance to work with in the gym. And this guy has wheels on the track at the University of Iowa. He's now a Hawkeye, finishing his first first season there with that squad. And he's dealt with a lot in.

The few years that he's been competing.

At a very high level. Injury, pressure, stress, choosing schools. It's all in this episode. Join us for a great talk with Liam Mather.

We believe in natural products for ourselves and our family. That's right, I'm an essential oil addict. Paul, on the other hand, is a closet oil user.

All joking aside, essential oils have allowed.

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Home, from bug repellent and cleaning to wound care.

And with five kids in four different.

Schools, flu prevention Doterra essential oils are the only oils we use due to the highest quality and worldwide ethical sourcing. I have pretty high standards, as most of you know. My oils need to be consistent and work. For information on DIY recipes, go to mydoterra.com that's mydoterra.com Karischnider and if you want me to come teach a wellness class for you, reach out to me@ksempowerconditioning.com that's ksempowerconditioning.com welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast, created to support athletes and in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Well, here we go for another Empowered Athlete podcast. And joining us today, having just flown back into town, back into London, is Liam Mather. Liam, welcome to the show. We're so excited to have you and learn about your sport, your running, your track and field career. What's going on with you now, what's happened in the past, and obviously you've trained Vicari. You know her well, and yeah, we're just excited to have you here. Thank you so much for joining us on a travel day.

No, thank you very much for having me. I'm excited to get down to business with you guys.

Right on.

Welcome, welcome, welcome. We're really excited about this. So this is a unique situation because you are coming back from your very first semester away at an NCAA Division 1 school at University of Iowa, but you have had a lot of experience in track and field. So let's back up a little bit and tell us a little more about, you know, what got you into track in the first place. Place. And, you know, what drew you?

What.

What was kind of the. The first thing for you there?

I think, like, if I, like, look back in my, like, history of track, I think the thing that pops out the most to me was definitely watching, like, the 2008 Beijing Olympics. I was just like a young kid sitting on my couch watching, like, these big men run the hurdles and, like, sprinting. And ever since then, that's, like, what stuff stuck with me the most, is seeing how successful they were and just, like, wanting to be like them. And that's what sparked track. And I dibble dabbled in, like, other sports. I did soccer for a bit, and then I kind of just got pulled to track because one of my friends in soccer happened to join track as well. And then ever since then, it's just been track. Like, that's all. It's been nothing else. The focus has just been the thought of kind of repeating what happened back in Beijing with all those hurdlers and track trying to do it in future Olympics. So that's kind of where it all sparked.

Oh, that's amazing. So there's a couple things that come up for me when I'm hearing this, and one is that how old were you in 2008?

I was eight years old.

You were eight? Yeah. You're 2000. Okay. Was it about watching them? Like, what was. Can you recall the feelings you had? Can you recall, like, were you just mesmerized? What was it about watching the track and field on the Olympics that really drew you?

Just, like, how intense the athletes were. Like, they were when they were running. You could see it on their face. Like, they were in a different world. Like, they were in their own zone, their own. Like, nothing else is affecting them. And I thought, like, how committed they were to, like, just running in the moment. Like, that was so interesting to me and kind of, like, detaching from the world and having, like, your own little thing and being able to do it on the world stage, like, that is, like, what stuck out the most for me, I think.

Isn't that. Isn't that interesting? Because, you know, you have this. You're drawn to it in one sense, but then at the same time, the likelihood of somebody enjoying watching it then being able to actually do it is a whole. Is a whole nother matter. But then the cool thing is, like, we see to really go towards it so Quickly, like being in soccer, that's one thing. You might have been a good runner on the field or whatever, but then going towards it so quickly is pretty impressive as well. A lot of people dabble or have injuries or have different things that they've tried and not liked, or they like, they try a lot of sports before they're geared toward that one that really, really speaks to them.

Like, I just jumped like head first into it. Like, I, the minute of that happened and I knew I wanted to go into track and I wanted to find all the clubs that were offered in London. Then I just joined the first one that I saw and just like got to every practice and just like started running and just like never gave up and always had that like end goal in sight, even from a young age, which is kind of weird for me to think back, like I was just a kid and I had these goals for myself and that like, of the, maybe the Olympics just like now looking back at it now, being 18 now nearly 19, like I'm almost a full adult and looking back and like seeing how committed I was just as like an 8 year old or a 10 year old, like, it's so crazy for me to just think about that now.

Were your, were your parents an influence on that? Were they into sports? Did they compete in anything?

Yeah, my dad was a pretty good soccer player back in the day. He ended up ending his career with a compound fracture in his arm, which no one ever wants to finish off their career that way. And my mom played field hockey in high school. And their athleticism kind of, I think, is what I inherited the most. I think I get most of my physical activity from my parents, definitely. But yeah, like, they influenced me a lot with joining track. They wanted to make sure I was not only just like being active as a kid and not being a couch potato, but also trying to find something that I really like, wanted to do with my life. And the minute that they saw that I clinched onto track, I think they definitely let me run with it and just supported me as much as possible.

So when you went into track, were you just sprinting? Did you try long jump or high jump or like, what disciplines in track were you trying out?

I was actually originally a high jumper because it was grade four, where. No, grade five. When my elementary school high jump coach, that's like, I think the thing that pushed me the most. Like I was thinking about joining track and then my grade five high jump coach kind of said, here, you should definitely join a club because, like, you're Excelling in elementary school track. Like, why not take it that step further? And I think that's the moment that I joined the club. And yeah, so I started with high jump and I was doing pretty good there. I was, I think tv, dsb, like grade seven and eight, like district champion and high jump. And I thought I was going to be a high jumper my entire life. And then. I know, right? Funny. Me being a high jumper is just a funny thought. But then I was at practice and one of the coaches at London Legion decided to put me on the hurdles one day. And then it just never really changed. Like I just kept doing them every practice because I think also it was convenient just because the hurdlers with all the kids were kind of like a smaller group. And it was just convenient to have me in that group at that time. And then I guess I just started to excel the hurdles a little bit. So I guess I stayed with them because of that.

Nice, nice. And where did you really fall in love with hurdles? Like, if people, I think most people will know listening, most of the audience would know what hurdles hurdling is, but what made you fall into it and then maybe explain the different heights of the hurdle as the changes and the distances that you run as you.

Yeah, I think what like made me fall in love with the hurdles over like other track events was how difficult it was compared to other events. Like you could sprint and you could jump into a pit of sand and you can do all these things, but like you have to have like a certain skill set to be able to like jump into a hurdle with your lead leg and wrap another leg around the side and keep sprinting between and like not losing speed. And then I was also training at the time as a kid and like almost in high school, but still in elementary school. And I was seeing like the older kids at the club jumping like the 39 inch hurdles, which is like what a U20 athlete would jump. So if like you're 18, 19 years old. And then I saw some kids jumping the senior height hurdles, which are 42, like that's Olympic height. And I remember distinctly back in like, God, no, I think 2012, and I was talking to one of my friends in the club and I was like, when the hurdles get that high, I'm quitting. And I remember that being a joke. And now I look back and it's like, wow, that's how far I've come.

Well, you're right though.

It's so you had to, you had to grow a little bit.

Yeah, definitely. And now I'm. Now I'm jumping those hurdles that I said I never would. So that's how far it's come so far. But, yeah, I think just the challenge of hurdling over other events is, like, what made me gravitate towards the hurdles over other events.

The hurdles, I always looked at that. We had a chance to do things like that in gym class and experiment some other sports. Is an intimidating event.

Definitely.

Like you said, you know, sprinting, jumping to a pit of sand, feel totally safe, no worries there. But the hurdles, if you mess up, yeah, you're gonna.

It's dangerous.

You're gonna fall in your face or tear something. They're just intimidating. And I can't imagine. I mean, I can't imagine exactly you felt looking at the, you know, the senior level and just. Yeah, no, thank you.

I was a pretty daredevilish kid, I won't lie. I was always down to do the things that might be more dangerous than the others. And I think, like, the adrenaline factor that came with it, even at a young age, was something that helped me overcome the fear of jumping a hurdle while sprinting. It's like, obviously it was hard for a while, and I had my problems getting into it originally, but I think my resilience with it as well is what helped me get over, like, the whole scary factor of it, like, oh, I'm gonna hurt myself. But then that kind of.

And that built that confidence builder of improving. Once you had that, do you think that that element of it being a little tougher, needing skill and you being good at it, that combination, do you think that helped to fuel maybe that little fire of going, okay, this.

I'm.

I'm special. I'm unique. This draws attention. I like that. Like, I want to fuel that more.

Is.

Was part of that.

Yeah. I think, like, once I started getting the whole technique thing down at a young age and doing a couple small races here and there and seeing, okay, like, I'm not. Like, I'm not terrible, like, I can actually get this down. Like, just put, like, a little bit more work in. It's like, over time, the. My race times would start getting lower and lower, and I was like, okay, like, I'm getting the hang of this. And I just kept improving over time. And I think seeing myself go from one year running X time to an even fat, even faster time, like the season after that, I think that's, like, what kind of solidified the thought of, like, to keep going with it. It's like, okay, like, I'M getting this down and I'm adapting to it pretty quick. So that's also what like kind of made me fall in love with it. It was like something that I was really good at and I kind of gravitated towards that because I wasn't like, really good at other things. And everyone like had their own special talents, like, that would be pretty similar with each other. And then I was finally found something that was like, for me and like nothing else that anyone else could do. And I think because I was doing something so different that was so mesmerizing by so many people, like, that pushed me to like, want to become faster with it too.

Yeah, definitely.

Definitely.

Yeah.

And what I mean, you've been an eight time provincial champion in 110 meter and 60 meter hurdles and three time national gold medalist.

Yes.

Those are some pretty big. That's a big deal. Like, that's. That's a big deal. When was the first real. When was that first major win that really meant a lot to you? Like, that just really stands out. That was different from the rest.

I think it was. So it was back. I forget the year I like 2015 or 2016. And it was my. I had made my very first provincial team. It was in Quebec. We were racing and I was favorite to win three events and it was a complete disaster. I ended up coming off with not a single medal. I had hurt myself many different factors, and that kind of set me back a lot. And I came back the year later and this was the second nationals that was in Quebec. And I decided to not go with Team Ontario and go unattached with Legion. And then I think it was that year in 2016 where I had a complete comeback season after being the favorite to win all these events and come back and win the national youth title in 2016 in Blainesville, Quebec. That's kind of like the setting point where I finally realized that, like, yes, I can make these goals for myself to go to the Olympics or World Championships, but the moment that I won that national championship was like the moment that I finally like saw the vision and like how possible that it really was.

Would you. And would you say that it was seeing the vision or that you were validating your dream of what you really wanted? Because, you know, you start off by saying when you're eight, looking at the Beijing Olympics, that that's what you wanted. So to kind of. Was it more validation? And yes, I'm for real. Was it. I mean, obviously it's a big confidence boost, but was it bigger Than that for you and that yes, I can do it at this level.

Yeah, I think definitely like that was the turning point. Like I always wanted to do it and I always have. Everyone has doubts about their goals obviously, but that moment, like winning that national title was like the moment like it validated the complete thought that I could actually do this and this is like a big possibility. And that's, that was the turning point where I decided to devote everything to track. Like I gave up all the normal like things like going into my first year of high school, I gave up all the normal things that a normal high school student would do. Like hanging out with friends all the time, partying, like doing all like the normal like teenage things. And like, because I had that validation came, I just like shut everything else off that wasn't track. And it was like devotion right then and there. Just like track, track, track.

That's. Yeah, that sounds very much like Paul's description of his high school when it came to volleyball. That's for sure.

It's like similar between so many athletes. I talked to so many of my friends that are high up in sports, such as volleyball and other sports of athletes that I met at Iowa as well. And like they've all had the same turning point where they found out that they could do it, they could really accomplish the big goals and they devote everything to it. Like there is nothing else that could get in their way.

And that's that switch. It's, it's like we've, we've connected with so many other athletes as well. And they describe that they can, they can think of the moment that it happened, they can think of how it changed every decision that they made after that. And they just kept aligning their actions on a day to day basis with that decision. No. Does this align with what I want? No. So I won't do it. Does this align with what I want? It's just that simple guidance that wasn't there prior to really tasting the potential.

Of what you want. Yeah, definitely. I agree with that completely.

Do you.

If would you say that you want to do your best or be the best?

That's a tough question because. Wow, that's a curveball question. I think for me, it's very hard for me to accept that maybe I did do my the best. That's where I beat myself up a lot oftentimes. But I think I just have a desire to be the best. Like I want like, I kind of want my name to be like something that when people hear my name, it's like, oh, they think of the hurdle or like, you know, and that's something that resonates with me a lot. But I've learned a lot recently to, like, be okay with, like, my best. Like, that's the best I could have done in that moment and I gave it my all. And I've become okay recently with maybe just sitting back and I'm not the best right now, but if I'm okay with me being my best right now, who knows, Maybe in a couple years I will be the best, like realizing and sitting back and like seeing a bigger picture rather than like sitting a flashlight so low over, like a bigger picture.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's, it's interesting because the majority of high performance athletes are, are achievers in nature. And that fatal flaw of achievers is definitely being very, very hard on themselves when they're not getting things the way that they want it.

I want to dig into it just a little. I was just. I really wanted to hear your answer. I love the question, Kari, and I love the answer, Liam. And I just want to ask one further, though, that from what I've seen, heard by interviews through documentaries and things that especially in track and especially in sprinting, the athletes are almost required to have ego, to believe that they are the best if they have any hope of winning. To be lining up on a track against the best in the world in an event that's done in just over 10 seconds. If you don't believe with every ounce of your body that you're the best, everyone else has an edge on you. I mean, I mean, I feel like it's par for the course that you've got to have, that you've got to have some ego. You've got to have that full out belief that you know you're unstoppable, you're untouchable. To compete at that level and get that extra hundredth that you need to, to have the edge. And so I was really interested in your answer. And I think, you know, from an advisory standpoint, I'd say, I mean, based on your age and knowing just about training and what your body is going to go through for the next five or six years as you reach a physical peak, which is definitely not the age you're at now, that you can almost get away with having both. And as you get further into it, it's going to have to shift to being the best as opposed to doing your best. But I feel like I want to say that the attitude of doing your best is always healthier you know, it's way healthier.

Yeah.

But for success and what you're going after, it may not be the best thing. It's that double edged sword.

You definitely, like, you can't, you can't go up to the blocks with the mindset of, oh, this person's gonna be me, this person gonna beat me, I'm up the bed and. Because then right from the block, right from the minute the gun goes off, you're gonna be set back and you're gonna let them pass you because you're gonna be stuck in like what they're doing, not what you're doing. Right. And I think when you're coming into like a race like that, you have to have like the right positive mentality. It doesn't necessarily have to be like, oh, I'm better than everyone else here and screw him and screw that. It's like going in, like believing in yourself. Like, I've put this work in on the track day in, day out. Like I have as much right to have this title as the person on my left and the person on my right. And I think going in with like, you have to go in with that positive mindset because if you don't like, it's just, it's not going to be your race. Yeah.

And it's, it's interesting.

I've, I've often, I said this over.

The years because oftentimes people who aren't in high performance sport, they think that athletes are very physically healthy. And, and I've always described it to them like, okay, if there's a spectrum of health and say at one end is disease, health is in the middle and the other end is high performance sport. High performance sport physically is still not necessarily around the healthy zone. It still puts people at greater risk, more likely to fail. But in having this conversation right now, I'm thinking of it in the exact same way, the exact same spectrum in a version of mindset.

So if your healthy mindset for your happiest or your most connected or your most fulfilled might be somewhere in the middle of the, in the spectrum. And then maybe at one end is some other forms that are really debilitating sometimes that high performance sport might be at the other end of the spectrum where it's like you have to have these mentalities that are so far removed from what might allow you to connect with other people or what might allow you to live a really like loving yourself kind of, or being gracious for yourself kind of life. Because the mindset of a high performance Athlete is so bloody demanding and the standards are so high, and so you kind of get stuck in this. You know, the mindset part of it, too, in high performance sport is very, very demanding as well.

With especially hurdling, it's. You have so many different things to think about within one practice and, like, within even, like, one second of, like, your practice. Like, you have to think about all the little things you have to do technically over the hurdle and you have to think about, oh, is that look good? Does coach think that looks good? Oh, like, will that improvement help me get to this title and this title? It's like all these different things running through your mind at once. It's. It can be very unhealthy for your mentality, for sure. And coming back to, like, the thought of physical, like, athletes are physically healthy, like, on that scale. It's like when you're. When you're battling all these different thoughts, like, you can. You can get sunk into, like, deep, like, dark places, and then that causes stress. And the causes of stress on the body can have physical implications, like losing sleep. And when you lose sleep, you become, like, physically unhealthy, actually, because you're not getting the proper, like, nutrients. And it's everything.

It's.

Yeah, completely. And it's like, with track, it's. There's such a, like, a culture of, like, overthinking everything because nothing goes right all the time. Like, you can't expect the perfect from yourself 24 7. But track athletes oftentimes do, and when they do that, they put themselves into these ruts that can be so mentally, like, debilitating to them, and they have such a hard time getting out of it. And that's where I think people definitely do not see that side of track. They see that we have these nice bodies and big muscles and all this kind of stuff, but they don't. They don't see what's going on in our head. And, like, that's the biggest part for us.

What.

Tell us more. Tell us more about that from a personal standpoint. What's been happening for you?

I think mostly for me, coming off of, like, four years of, like, undefeated competition within Ontario and winning all these titles and always knowing how to, like, knowing I'm the best, and then going to a school in the states, running D1 and going in, knowing that I'm not going to be the best and I'm not going to. I'm not going to be the first to the rep in practice, and I'm. And I'm going To be slower than some people, because there are people older than me and more. More skilled. I think going off of a. Off of a complete career in Ontario, where I know how to run rather than race, I think has been a really big part in, like, my mental struggles. Because I start seeing that, like, dang, like, I'm running like crap because I'm not beating this person and this person. And then I sink myself deep into these rut and these, like, depressions, thinking, oh, like, I'm not worth it. Like, I can't run fast. Like, that practice, and this practice has gone so poorly because I didn't beat this person. This person. I have never lost anyone. Like. Like all those feelings can get you so deep down, and they've gotten me down at college, I won't lie. Because it's the realization of going from being the best to not the best and trying to juggle the thoughts and try to adapt to it being okay, not being the best.

And it might not have even been something that you realized was going to be such a. Like, you knew you wouldn't be the fastest there, obviously, being a rookie coming in. But at the same time, how can you prepare for the number that does on your emotions and the number that does on how you're thinking, Thinking about your sport and yourself?

Yeah, like, for a while, there was a couple, like, a month period during my first semester, like last month or the month of month before, where I got. I got myself really low. I was in a really low spot. Like, I would just be so frustrated in practice, and I'd beat myself up and I'd go home and I'd cry every night. I thought it was just. I was so over it. Like, why? I made the biggest mistake of my life. I came to this. I threw everything on the line and I made the biggest mistake of my life. And then after I decided to take the move and see the sports psychologist and see if I can figure out, like, what I'm feeling and like, to get out of this mindset. Because I noticed that a mindset like this is not healthy for your physical health, also your mental health. And I think for me is just like, you have to be okay. You have to learn how to lose before you can win. Because until you learn how to lose, you will always beat yourself up to the point where you will dig yourself into the deepest hole that at one point you won't be able to bring yourself out of it.

Yeah, everyone's got to write that down honestly. You have to learn how to lose before you can win. It's true in every sport that you have to get the tools to deal with that because it's the essence of sport, that things are outside of your control. And the day will come, no matter how good you are, that everything will go effing wrong no matter what you do. I mean, I've had matches where I could not score and that is my job. And I could not put the ball away no matter what I did. And if you can't deal with that and bounce back and come back, you can't continue. And it's, it's just, it's an awesome line and I want everyone to get that one down or put it up somewhere you can see it. It's just important message.

Yeah. And I'm sorry, go ahead.

Oh, I was, I was just going.

To say that, you know, on, in the same token of that dealing with those things mentally because you haven't faced them before or because your identity is so wrapped up in being somebody who wins and somebody who succeeds and then you get the smack in the face of somebody who, you know, can't, isn't winning or isn't competing the way you thought you would or whatever it is. And then it's just a massive blow to the psyche. And here's the thing, when you're talking about, you know, you knew that you were down there, you knew you were really low. It doesn't matter whether people are in sport or not. People know when they're low and they're so low they may not even know how to reach out for help or what to do. And I think there's a massive, massive issue out there of adults, children, teenagers, nobody ever learning any skills, any techniques, any little tools to help themselves come out of those lows. Because it doesn't matter who you are or what you're doing, everybody's going to get low at some point or another. And chances are the majority of people don't have any clue as to what say, just a five step plan as to how to get out of that low. Because what happens, they stay low for so long and they don't know what to do. So then it's go to the doctor and then the next step is going to be a prescription. And you know, I might be offending some people here, but you know, that prescription doesn't, it doesn't cure depression, it.

Just changes how you think.

Prescription. Bingo. It changes in numbs or changes how you feel in that time. So it may get somebody through a patch. So like I'm not saying don't use prescription meds or anything like that. But what I am saying is that.

They'Re not solving the problem.

There's an underlying fundamental problem, and it comes down to a way someone's thinking, an identity loss, not being able to grieve. There could be a list of many, many, many things as to what the fundamental problem is. And then the next problem is that we as humans typically haven't been taught the tools to deal with that problem. And then to help ourselves come out of that state or ask for help or work together to come out of whatever that state is.

So, like, even worse, it's. We. We've been taught how to deal with it as men. At least it's. Grit your teeth, toughen up.

Yep.

Stock it up. Buttercup culture, you know, and it's such a culture. Yeah. And so it's a man. I'm going to speak on the men's side here, but. Well, it's like Lewis Howe's book Masking Masculinity. You know, it's all about that. It's exactly that. It's being not given the tools to properly deal with it and actually given models and role models to follow or the opposite of what you should be doing.

Yeah. And I can. I can be a guy in sport right now and say for me, like, I don't care if I'm a man. I don't care if I'm in sport and I'm masculine. I like. It's to the point where it does not matter. It's. Everyone thinks the same way when it comes to how they approach sport. And you can't cover up the emotions because if you do, that's what drives people to want to quit sport. That's what drives people to beat themselves up so much that they do things that are unspeakable. Like, it's not okay to have such a difference in cultures for men and women in sports.

Mm. Yeah. Yeah. To be able to like it, it's gonna manifest in some form or another. So if someone. Something's not dealt with, it's going to make someone so stressed out that they're sick. It's going to make someone withdraw from other people or whatever it is. But everybody struggles in different ways with how they deal or don't deal with things. But ultimately, if they're not able to emote, they're not able to allow the stresses or allow the feelings to surface, it's going to come out in another way. They're going to be.

They.

Maybe they get a Physical illness, or maybe they're losing sleep, or maybe they get injured, or maybe they are just grumpy and angry all the time and never happy again. Like there's just so many things, right that, that's how it presents itself. So, you know, and kudos to you for being courageous in sharing what, what your struggle has been. Like this is, this has to be one of those things that so many first semester athletes go through. Like we're talking, think of how many students, how many student athletes go away to school for the first time. They're a competitive, high, demanding situation in being in sport and then at the same time they're living away from home, often for the first time in their lives and, and dealing with a new environment, new stressors of even how to do the day to day tasks like making your food. So it's just, you know, that had had to have been a whole lot of other added extras on what you've had to deal with.

And I knew, I knew going into the whole thing that it's gonna be more than just a training change. It's gonna be the whole nine yards. Everything has been flipped upside down and then shaken violently. And it's like I couldn't hide the fact that that's what's gonna happen. So I knew I was gonna like have these challenges and I, I definitely was like in the mindset of like this is going to happen. And prepare yourself before you get into those mindsets with the tools that you have available to help with those situations. And I think like preparing ahead of time definitely like helped my situation because I knew exactly what was going on with myself and I knew where to go and what to do. And I think it's important for everyone to understand that when you go through a massive change, like coming from Canada and going off to the Midwest and going to a whole new life and different culture and different everything. Like there will be the mental struggles that come with it and you have to be prepared for it because if you're not, you are, you know, for a world of hurt.

So, so what are, can you give some tips to the listeners? What, what works for you? What are some key things that you're doing? Obviously you talk about being prepared, but beyond that, once you're there for the unexpected, for the, for the difficulties in practice. You mentioned seeing the sports psychological. Can you share some of the tools that you've had to learn or are using now to, to cope?

Yeah, like I, I oftentimes go into every like training day with like the mindset of like, like today might have not have been good, but you have to be okay with the fact that you ran. You could run like crap two weeks in a row, like to every single day for two weeks in a row. But you have to sit back and see the big picture because this is an entry level phase to like a long term goal. And like nothing is good right off the bat. And I think with me sitting back every morning and just thinking, today is. I'm okay if today goes like shit, because I'm sorry, can I say that it's done.

It's all right.

You can edit. All right. Yeah. You have to like be okay with the fact that that day might not go the way you want it to, but it like knowing and going into the day knowing that I can be okay with that thought, with just knowing right from the beginning of the day. It can definitely have like the effects of how that practice or that that class or how some little inconvenience in a day went. Like, it'll for me at least has had smaller effects than what it did before. Before I accepted the fact that things are going to go wrong and that they will affect me in many ways. But yeah, like just for me, sitting back and taking every single little bad thing that's gone wrong and kind of using it as a victory. I guess, like you can't, you can't go into anything without taking your failures as victories.

Yeah, that's such a, That's a fantastic lesson because it's that, it's that constant question too. Even. Even if it's a failure, it's never really a failure unless you didn't learn something from it. So. So it's that question of either what did I learn? Or what is this even the most horrible thing that happens? What is this here to teach me? Because even in the most catastrophic situations, what is this here to teach me? If you can draw the strength or the beauty or the whatever good that came from it. That thing that will keep you in the positive mindset and keep you progressing and moving forward versus falling into the valley.

Yeah, that's right. It's the thinking that everything's happening for you.

Believing that. Yeah.

That your life is happening for you as opposed to against you and.

Exactly. Yeah, I. That's just been like one of the hardest things to adjust with. But like, just so everyone knows, like there is a brighter side. Like you will come out on top and it's not gonna be like that forever. And that's what I just kept telling myself too.

So I'M I'm curious about something.

Just having worked with you and known you are your. When you're in practice or in competition, are your times the same or faster than last year? Are they slower? Are they, like, what are your times right now?

My training has been like, I think I've been running the worst. I've been running my entire career right now just because of all the mental things that I've been dealing with. But also the whole change of trying to adjust form. I have, like, I'm.

You got different coaches for the first time that are.

Yeah. Wants to do competition.

They want different techniques for sure.

And that's something. And I, like, I've known for a really long time that my form is fast, but, like, I need to change things to be that much quicker. And like, being in a muscle memory for like, like my career being eight, like, almost 10 years long now, like, being.

You're reconstructing and breaking it down. And it's a hard thing.

Oh, it's so hard physically as well as mentally because you feel like you are just garbage because you are not being able to do a single simple task that you're thinking so hard about it, but your body's not, like, following. And, like, that's the struggle that I'm in right now. So I've been running, currently, I've been running very poorly, but I just know that, like, it's gonna be. There's a, like a light at the end of the tunnel. That's all I need to think about.

You know, we were just at a. Really. At a Tony Robbins seminar not long ago, and they were bringing up the story about Tiger woods and how he simply, Simply so committed to continual improvement, so committed to continual improvement, that even though he had accomplished so much, he came to a point of realizing that if he really wanted to be the best in the world at what he did, he would have to change his golf swing. And that is, you know, that's what you're describing. It's the deconstructing and trying to do something that is going to take you back five steps in order to get forward.

Exactly. Because, like, when you're doing something for so long, the muscles in your body are formed to do that task in this specific way that you've been doing it for so long. So, like, it's not just thinking about it. It's developing the new muscles and the new neuron stimulants in your body to be able to change everything.

Because it's like learning to walk again.

Like, in the Most honest sense. It's like learning to walk again. And I've. And I've battled my thoughts of, like, this is. I'm not going to improve. Like, this is pointless. Like, all these different things. And I've been able to sit back and think, okay, it's going to take time. This won't happen in two days. Let it. It could take a year for all I care at this point. I just know that when I change it, it's gonna be good.

So it's fortunate that when you were a two year old and was learning to walk that you couldn't overthink it. Otherwise you wouldn't have gotten up the 20th and 30th and 50th and hundredth time before you actually learned to walk.

And now I'm 18 and I overthink everything.

Don't we all. Don't worry, that's how we roll. Um, what is something. What is something about you that you might want people to know about you that most people don't? Could be anything, could be a quirky little thing, whatever it is. But what might be interesting for people to know about you that most people don't?

That my hurdle ability did not definitely come without a lot of hard work because a lot of people oftentimes be like, oh, my God, you're so naturally good at it. And honestly, I'm not naturally good at it. And it took a lot of hard days in the gym, on the track. And I think what oftentimes people don't see is, like, all the hours spent outside of the public eye. And I think that's like, the biggest thing I want people to know is, like, I didn't become this good just sitting on my butt. Like, I worked hard.

Really, really good athletes make it look so fluid and so easy, and it fools other people into thinking that, oh, they just, they were born like that. They just, they, you know, came out of the womb hurdling that hurdle or swinging that golf club or whatever it is. And, and what do you think? You. What would you describe as your greatest fear right now?

Oh, that's a big one. I think my biggest fear right now is falling out of love with the vision that I set back in 2008 is, like, getting to the point where things haven't been going right for so long that I just want to quit. And I think that's the biggest thing with me right now is just terrified, absolutely terrified of the thought that I will one day just hate track and then never want to do it again. Like that's just terrifying for me.

Yeah. Especially when it's. It's almost like a. It's almost like a love affair and that you've been so in love with it that it's. It's a. It's a heartbreaking scenario.

And, like, recently, like, I've. I'm currently out of training. Well, hard training, at least because of an ankle injury that's in the process of being treated. And, like, one of the things that I need to do to, like, help my ankle heal is take, like, time off of training. And, like, the biggest thing for me was I didn't want to take time off training. I wanted to keep going to practice and progressing my injury because I was so afraid that if I took the time off that I would like it too much. Because of how hard you didn't trust.

Yourself for that break.

Exactly.

Isn't that interesting?

It's, like, relapsing. It's like I was afraid that I was going to fall into, like, that a love of, like, not wanting to do track, and I think that's the biggest fear right now.

Yeah. Yeah, that's. That's. That's.

Especially with all the expectations, too.

It's. It's. And that's a big thing.

Especially.

When you.

When you have coaches and you have parents and you have your own high expectations. You feel like you have so much to meet.

Right. It's just. It's like you don't want to let anyone or any. Anybody down.

I feel like I set myself up almost with, like, going to the NCAA and having this big spotlight on an athlete who's did, like, done such a big jump. And I feel like now I have such an obligation to run fast. If I don't, then people are just gonna be like, oh, he's bogus. Like, whatever. Like, he didn't run like he did last year. And it's like. Yeah, it's just the expectations just really get to your head.

There's a saying that a writer named Rachel Hollis says, and it came from a therapist that says other people's opinions of you is none of your business.

That's a good one. I need to live by that. I think way too much.

And then it. Yeah, because, you know, we want to be liked and whatnot.

And you want to be known as. As you and not just as a hurdler. You exactly have, you know, depth to who you are as a person and that you're not one dimensional. That was the trap I fell into throughout my career, was that I became the volleyball Player and had nothing else to me. So, yeah, take that away and you're in a lot of trouble. So.

Exactly. Like you lose your Identity Almost absolutely.

100.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. What would you say is some really small thing or action that has had a really big impact on your sport or life or relationships? What's one of those little things that makes a big difference for you?

Definitely being able to, like, have fun in practice as much as it's like, business, like, being able to smile and like, after one of my friends runs a really good rep, like, give him a fist pump, keeping, like, the positive vibes that practice, like jamming to music. I think that's like the biggest thing for me that's like, made it such a positive, like, impact on my life is just being able to have the fun, like, flowy aspect to it as well as having the business side. That's, like the biggest thing for me right now.

And that will serve you in all aspects of life for the rest of your life, I promise.

Yeah. And I'm just trying to. I'm trying to keep that thought like a keeper. Keeping that. It's going to serve me for the rest of my life because if I lose that, then I'm going to lose myself.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're going to, we're going to start to wrap up here with a few questions that we love to ask athletes and just in order for us to get to know you a little better, but also the audience to get to know you a little better, what are, what's your favorite food and dessert?

Maybe favorite food. So I am addicted to food, let me tell you.

But I think we all.

Yeah, no, but he's like, he's, he's got his own. He's got his own little Instagram and it's. What's it called? The. The grub. Golden grub. Yes, yes.

And yeah. But I think my favorite food is anything Asian. Like, I'll. I'll take that pad Thai any day and. Oh, don't even get me started with spring rolls. Those are like, oof. I could eat so many spring rolls. Yeah. Like, anything Asian food, like, Orient, like, oriental food is like where it's at right now for me. And dessert wise is like, you will never see me not devouring a piece of tiramisu if it's in front of me. Like, tiramisu is to die for.

Paul likes it's. It's the mocha flavor that you like. Hey, Paul.

Absolutely. Funny story.

The coffee.

I have a big tiramisu Waiting for me downstairs in the fridge of the little surprise gift coming home.

I can't believe we're not in person. Oh, my gosh. This did not work out all the way.

I. Oh, well.

Oh, okay. So favorite music? If you're pumping people up and getting that kind of high vibe state for you and your teammates, what's that?

Like? I like EDM and rap. Like, the vibes that I get. The high pumps, like, the beats and everything. Like, I. From like a good EDM song or like a rap song. Like, that just gets my blood flowing in my nerves. Bumping, like, I don't know, like, I. I can song like that and just, like, correlate it to the track.

That's awesome. And what about. What about favorite movie?

Oof. Anything but the taken movies with Liam Neeson.

Oh, so you've got a particular set of skills. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. I love those movies. They're my favorite. Love it. I will find you and I will kill you.

And what about favorite books?

Oh, honestly, I'm gonna take it back to, like, when I was younger in the diary. Diary of a wimpy kid books. Oh, yeah.

Oh, awesome.

I like boys.

Boys read those.

Like, as a kid and even to now. Like, I. I'm not a bookworm. Like, I will avoid reading at all costs, but you can ask my mom. When I got all that, I got that entire series. I read that thing and, like, two days I spent every minute in my room, and I read every word, and I don't even know why. They were just great.

All right, that's.

You know what?

The boys.

The boys like those too. Xavier like those a lot. What about. Do you have a favorite hobby? Like, we know you're a bit of a foodie. Is there something. Is there something else, too, that you are drawn to?

Yeah, I've been, like, really into making, like, like, adventure videos and, like, YouTube videos, like, vlogs kind of of right now. And I think that's, like, what if it's not, like, school, work and track? My, like, attention is definitely drawn on, like, filming my life and making cool videos to post on the Internet for people to see, to give, like, a look into my life a little bit.

That's cool.

Oh, that's super cool.

What.

What are you taking in school?

I'm currently a sports and recreational management major with a focus in professional sports management. So kind of like, leaning into the world of professional coaching, but also with a minor in political science.

Nice.

And are you. Are you first year is always tough to have this answer. But are you enjoying it? Is it the choice you thought it would be?

Yes. I definitely think post secondary education was for me and it's like where I'm supposed to be. I pick a lot of my classes for my major wisely for things that interest me because I know if I'm not like interested in a course or a class, I'm not going to do well in it. And I think right now, for this semester at least, I've really enjoyed my classes so far. I've gotten along really well with my teaching assistants who helped me a lot with succeeding. And because of it, I'm going to shamelessly self promote myself that I have a 3.7 GPA.

Sweet.

Attaboy. Attaboy.

Yeah, it's been good so far on the academic side, which is like a big plus because if it wasn't going well there, I think everything would have gone wrong.

Yeah.

Yeah. You don't want to have it. You need to see something going right.

Yeah. That's awesome.

And what would you, what would you have as maybe a tip or two for young up and comers in your, in your sport? So just something that maybe you would have told to your younger self or something that you think would be important for them to know?

I think for me because I'm very impatient and I like things to happen like instantly. I love instant gratification. I know a lot of people do as well. Just you could be, you could be getting worse over a three year span and not seeing improvement. But at that point like you cannot give up because if you give up, you like you're losing more than you can gain. Like if you stay committed, no matter how bad it's going or how good it's going, you will come out on top. Because if you're like, if there's someone else putting the work in, out there, you can put in the, the exact same amount of work and you can have the same outcomes that they're getting just as long as you devote yourself as much as you know that you can. Like that's like the biggest thing.

That's awesome. That's such a, such, such a great point to wrap things up on because it's what people need to hear sometimes they think they're working hard and they just don't understand that they need to keep going and they need to push a little more and they can, they're capable of it. So that's amazing.

Yeah, definitely.

We're so, so grateful to have you. You are such a bright and fun and enthusiastic person to be around. And we're, we're so glad we could have you on the podcast because you sharing about the harder things I know will make a huge difference for other people. So thank you so much, Liam.

Thank you so much for having me.

Yeah, no problem.

And I'm really glad, like, I hope that what I've shared can definitely help other people going through things that maybe they don't want to speak up about because, like, getting the help that you need and having the resources available is like the first step to, like, getting better.

Yep.

Yeah.

And I love that you want to help others and, you know, everyone needs to have that mentality.

We're all in this together.

We're all in this world together, and let's help each other out. So on that note, how can people find you? How can they send you message of support or check out your videos and. And reach out to you on socials?

I think the thing that I'm most active on right now is Instagram. And if anyone that listens to this podcast needs any advice, definitely send me a dm. My AT is Liam Mather. L I A M M A T H E R R. The two R's at the end. Definitely send me your messages. I want to hear what you guys are feeling, what's going on with you, and I want to try my, like, very best to help you guys. And you can get my videos on YouTube as well for my Instagram. It's in the bio.

Right on. Liam. I want to echo Kari's thoughts. I'm just. Thank you for sharing so much. Your. Your wisdom is beyond your 18 years, that's for sure. So thank you so much for today.

Thank you. Awesome. No, thank you.

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