EP40 Kari and Paul - Motivation

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball players. Hello, everyone.

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete podcast in this beautiful month of May. I'm Paul Durden, joined by my lovely wife, Kari Schneider. And as it is May, we want to tell you all about our new 1230 challenge, which is our year of 30 day challenges and what we're doing in the month of May. Kari, enlighten us.

Movement. May. So May is all about getting a little more movement in and most bowel. Haha.

What kind of movement?

Funny. Haha. No, not bowel movements, but that would be good too, because everyone would feel very good if that was a daily challenge. No, it's movement. May is about exercise.

Right?

Wanker. Anyway, so what exercise are we doing? We're gonna do 30 day challenge of planks and squats. So some specific plank exercises and squat exercises every day for 30 days. People love to get out and do things in the spring to get ready for summer and we want to help that happen. So we're gonna do a squat and a plank exercise every day and progress it from day one all the way through day 30. And if you want to get involved with us, then please, by all means, reach out. You can, you'll have all sorts of opportunities. The Facebook stories will post the exercise videos. You can find out all the exercise on one of our emails on the 12:30 challenge and be supported in our empowered top performers Facebook group as well.

Yeah, so to find some of those links, just scroll down, see the link there, tap it, and join the group and join the fun. And we will not be missing leg day the entire month.

Well, there's, there's some. It's, it's built in. It's good. You'll. You'll have a little rest time.

There is some sanity to this.

There's some sanity. It's good. Yeah.

All right, well, I am motivated for the challenge and today we are talking about motivation, specifically workout motivation and how it ebbs and flows. It can be good, it can be bad, and everything in between. So to kick things off, I thought I might just share my personal journey or experience with motivation from the standpoint of when I was an athlete. Am I still an athlete?

Dude, you're still an athlete. Come on.

Well, I guess when I was a professional athlete, then let's frame it that way. But back when I was playing for the national team professionally and there was times where each year cyclic, you know, moving from one air quotes, national team season, which was typically the summer, into a professional season, which went through the fall and winter, just kind of cycles in there of motivation and ebbs and flows. And starting with the national team in the summer, I would say that motivation generally was pretty high because it was a shorter season. I was coming back from a pro season with summer with the guys, and workouts were fun because I found in general working out with my Canadian teammates, the work ethic was higher and more consistent and the workouts would therefore be more. You'd have more buy in from the group so that you can bring the intensity up.

Okay, so, so just to, to get clarity here, you're to give people perspective here. When you're with a pro team in Europe, you are training with them, but at the same time you're noticing that a lot of the guys are just not quite as driven as with the national team. And, and that's probably true for most sports. Going from pro to national team. The pros, they've got their contract, they know they're there, they're a little more secure. The national team, it's a higher level. It's international play. Plus you, you may well, you were a little more secure, but a lot of the athletes aren't as secure on that team.

Yeah. And what it really was, the biggest difference I think, between the two groups is that the, with the professional teams, you've got your group of foreign players on the team who are more likely the stars. They're the hired guns brought in. And then the reign of the team is made up of the nationals from the country that you're playing in. And the.

So if you're in Turkey, if you're in Turkey, there are the majority of the team, there may be three or two foreigners that are the big guns that are brought in and there's likely the whole rest of the team are.

From Turkey, roughly speaking. Yeah. And so just a numbers thing. The kind of fringe players in the lineup are typically less professional. They are playing on much smaller contracts and just don't have that same intensity at times. That would bring the group down and.

They wouldn't have the. Those fringe players wouldn't have the opportunity to play for their national team either. So if you think of that country, they're kind of the lower echelon of what's the talent that's available from that pool in the country.

Yeah. And that effect is magnified. The lower in the standings you go, so the top Few clubs in every league, top to bottom on that roster, you've got some serious players. But as you move down to an 8th place team, a 10th place team, the likelihood that you have less motivated, less professional players creeps into the picture for some of those teams that aren't as well funded. So getting back to the national team, coming back with the group you're with, all the stars, all the guys are there, you speak the same language and it's great from a motivational standpoint. Now the lows though of being with the national team are related to the full time center where the young players get to start out when the full time center is running and you get to train all year long and never.

Play week in, week out, day in.

Day out and it is a frickin grind. It is so tough. So from a motivational standpoint, that's the most challenging thing that I faced of knowing that you've got a block of a month of training, two a days plus workouts, all kinds of things like that, with no competition, no release competitively outside of what you're getting in practice. And at times you're not practicing with a full 12 players, so you're not even scrimmaging a lot. So that's the toughest mentally on a motivational standpoint for me on the professional side looking at that season, it's a long one. So the low is, you know when you're a month or two in and the end of that season is a long way off and the biggest matches of the season are a ways off. The European cup hasn't really gotten rolling yet and, and it's knowing what's ahead I think that I found was kind of hard motivationally to get that intensity at a super high level throughout the entire seven month season.

And sorry to interject here, but at that point in time you have finished national season play. So are you, is part of it fatigue from national season and then you're transitioning to pro the pro season like so. So if, if people had a timeline, say you were with a national team from May to, for argument sake, yeah, August, September, depending on the year and then you went back to your pro team, it's September, October. Are you mentally and physically exhausted from the intensity of, of the national team or are you, is it just the fact that you're facing such a long pro season, which, which is it that way?

It's more the fact of what, you know what's coming that pro season and.

You'Ve got that excited because you've Been at it a few years at this point. Yeah.

Yeah. And getting back to the team is exciting sometimes as a new team and.

You know, you're getting to know new.

Players, settle in and things like that. But then once you're settled in, it's okay. You know, it's the darkest time of the year in Europe. Lots of gray rainy days. So just you don't have those bonuses of a sunny day like in the summer. You know it's going to get you out of bed in the morning. So those factors contribute to make it pretty tough. Short days, long days training, but short days of light and all those things kind of mesh together to make motivation. I find the hardest over there before Christmas and immediately after in that time. But things really do ramp up.

How many Christmases did you come home from? 0 away for almost 20 years.

Yeah. 14 years in Europe and I was probably home for Christmas four times. Not very often, I would say four or five times maybe. And a few of those were kind of a couple day trip in and out.

Yeah.

So not much. So you're over there for the season.

So you really appreciate our traditions. That's why just bugging you.

But from a motivation standpoint, getting back there and when you get into that kind of second, third of the season, that's when I really kind of started. And it's interesting. The motivation would actually build because you kind of hit your pace of the season. You're into the routine of the weekend matches in league play and you're midweek, European cup games or league cup games and that rhythm really gets established and the matches are becoming important. And you also know after you've got a few seasons under your belt that that's the time of year where any chance that you've got to work with some kind of an off week where you have kind of lighter competition intensity wise, you got to put the extra work in the gym and do the harder lifts there so that you can make it through playoffs and actually really give it all the way to the end of the season. So it's motivating knowing that at that point that you've really got to ramp it up.

This is that thing that so many young athletes I see now and coaches, especially club coaches, so if they haven't reached a provincial level, I see them always wanting to pull back for every competition, not realizing, even if it's like a high school level, like a offset or a wasa, they want to pull back on all these competitions that even are far before that, not realizing that they're not going to be trained well enough for that final event or those final tournaments or those you know, end season longer pushes. And they're just not physically prepared because they've continued to pull back, pull back, pull back for every competition prior that it's just simply not necessary. And your, your, your national level coaches, when they're periodizing well they're seeing that, you know there's tournaments that you guys would train through.

Right.

Because and tournaments, these might be several day tournaments and you guys would be training through like normal because it wasn't the major event, it wasn't what you were trying to peak for. And, and there's such misconception with younger or lower level coaches that they don't understand that planning aspect and how to physically bring players to where they need to go.

Yeah, I think it was intimidating for other pro teams that we'd play especially when I was in Paris and we were one of the top teams in Europe consistently and physically. Absolutely physically. And to play a match against us get dusted 30 we'd beat teams in just over an hour and then our team would walk out of the gym and hit the gym.

Yeah.

And go work out straight to a workout.

Yeah. And other teams would just be mind blown because they couldn't fit fathom.

Well it's just another level that we haven't been exposed to. And again it was a reflection of the intelligence of the coaching staff and the planning and the level of players that we had. But those are the kinds of things are exactly what you're describing that need to happen if you want to be at the top of your game for the playoffs.

But there's many national level coaches and athletes and pro level coaches and athletes that have never reached that level because the coaches themselves typically don't have enough of an understanding of the physical realm, the physiology, the strength and conditioning and things like that. To be able to mesh that with the on court or on field whatever the sport is technical work.

Right.

That needs to happen. So. And then you've got, you gotta get the buy in of the players. Cause the players simply like that's so mentally and physically daunting. They don't understand that they can get to that point and they're usually so far off that it's just seems impossible and they, they think they're, they get angry because they think the coaches are trying to kill them or something. So yeah.

And there, there will be pushback from certain players but once they've gone through the process and come out on the other side and see how good they can feel, buy in.

Some players get.

Get there.

Some don't, though. Some never get there for sure.

For sure. And, yeah, that's the. I would say from the professional standpoint that those. That's when I was most motivated for the training, was coming to that phase mid season, three quarters of the way in, and knowing that that prep work was getting hungry. Yeah. Getting ready for the big matches and wanting to be just physically on fire.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So it was easy to train then. I guess the last option we have for easy or hard in a career is injury time. And believe it or not, there are easy times to train when you're injured and hard times. And looking back on it, for me, the easiest times were, I'm gonna use two. I'm kind of cheating. But before surgery, knowing, you know, from your advice and other people's advice, to know that the fitter you are going into a surgery, the faster you're coming out of it, the easier everything is. So that's extremely, extremely motivating, knowing that, okay, I'm going to be sidelined. Well, let's make this as short as possible. So I'm going to bust it going into that surgery so that I come out as quickly as possible. Highly motivating. But the other period of just off a regular injury is right after it happens, because it's knowing that immediately you're losing steps to your competition, losing ground, and I hate that feeling. I want to be ahead. I want to know that I'm doing more than the next guy. And so as soon as I was injured, almost a panic, not a panic, but definitely a lot of pressure and anxiety coming from myself to, all right, get back to it. Let's find things to do here. And then the hardest part, though, is having, obviously I have that mindset is then when you have a setback with an injury.

So, yeah, you're making progress, and then you set back.

Yeah, like, I was lucky enough to never have an ab strain. A good friend of mine, Jason Haldane, who I played with forever, dealt with an ab injury that kept resetting. So, you know, he'd be off easing back into it. One wrong move, and he set back two weeks, three weeks. And it was this horrible two steps forward, one back, three forward, two back, two back again. And that. Yo, yo, yo.

Hip flexors and abs.

Demoralizing, though. It's demoralizing because you just. You've got to know with an injury that it's not going to be a linear recovery, but it's really tough on the motivation to ramp it up again. You've got pain, you've been feeling better, but then you're back in that bad pain zone again. And that's really tough on the motivation side.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So those are my peaks and valleys, I think just kind of looking back at the different scenarios I was involved in motivationally. And just the last thing I want to add, I feel just about my motivation in general is that it was, I don't know, it's kind of like a bucket or. I don't know how to describe it, but it wasn't limitless. Absolutely. And I would feel by the end of a season long pro season, just empty and banged up and coming back to the national team. Yeah, it's exciting to be there. But just those transitions of craving a break and wanting to just get something back in that bucket or fill the cup again a little bit motivationally was really needed because after some seasons, especially if there have been injuries that you're fighting through, that just draws from your reservoir so much faster than other scenarios.

And from the national team side of things, there's such a high expectation of performance very quickly and it's very hard for say, the staff. If I'm thinking myself or other people that used to be with the national team at the time we were, there were. There's some athletes coming in who have been off for a month because their season, their pro season ended early. And those other athletes like you typically have gone further in your season, maybe all the way to a championship and you're spent, completely spent. And yet the whole team, even though everybody's at different levels, has to be somewhat on the same level to progress forward with where that team needs to go. So it's, it's such a, it's a very, very tough, tough act to balance.

And the juggling act that you were performing in your role.

Yeah.

Trying to figure out what was needed, what you're being given here from each person as they're coming back.

Yeah.

You know, is this person destroyed? Has this person been lifting well over there? Yeah. What is it?

And, and whether they've been in contact or not and all of those things. But some. So in looking at this, what you're bringing up brings up a couple of perspectives that I can offer that I see in this, in this topic. So workout motivation. If I think of all sorts of athletes that I've worked with over the years and think of when they might be the most or the least motivated, I'm going to think of A few times when, when there's commonalities, it didn't matter whether it was volleyball or hockey or swimmers or triathletes or sorts of different sports. At a national level, almost every athlete was highly, highly motivated. When they first come into a training camp or a season, a national season or something like, they've basically, they've either made a team or they've made a certain level that they've never made before. And that's when this motivation to train is highly, highly peaked because they've, they're so bloody excited that they've made some level that they've never made before and they want to keep progressing and they're happy that they've gotten that point. And then on the flip side as that progresses. So maybe it's a training camp or, you know, if I think of the women's national hockey team, there'd be boot camp. And this is prepping for, prepping for like a full time training center, what they would be doing before the Olympics. But the boot camp in the summer was weeks long and it was highly intensive. But anything like a training camp, a boot camp, a season, like a national season, as it sets in and the grind is really there, then people just, it's the physical and mental exhaustion that people just start to fail when it comes to their want to even get at it on a day to day basis. It doesn't matter that they've reached their goal. It doesn't matter that they're so bloody excited that they're on the national team or whatever it is or they have a shot at the Olympics or they, you know, or they've made it higher than they ever have. They are so physically and mentally depleted that motivation fails. Absolutely fails. And, and then the another you're gonna add something.

Well, I just, you saying that makes me recall times where you've shown me a program and the macro cycles and meso. All the different things that you're doing.

Yeah.

All the sciency stuff.

Yeah.

And you could point to a certain week or a certain series of workouts and say here you are going to feel like garbage.

Yeah.

And you're going to feel heavy and you're going to feel slow.

Yes.

And you could predict it.

Totally.

And for an athlete not accustomed to feeling that way, intense training that can be demoralizing because they're working hard, they're working hard, they feel improvement, they're feeling good, and then everything. And then you're doing something to them to, you know, add some mass or looking for a specific goal. And it hits them like a ton of bricks because all of a sudden they, I feel like crap on court, I can't move, I can't do the things the way I normally do them. And that if you're not prepared for it, can just suck it out of you.

And a good high end coach, like sports specific coach, understands that it's part of the process, part of the physical process that holds hands with the sports specific side of things. And so they have to work really well together. But the beauty that I had to learn early on in that in getting the athlete buy in, because the athlete buy in is key to keep the progress happening. But that athlete buy in would be to do what I did with you, which is explain, say this is the plan, this is what it looks like. This is where things are. You might feel really derailed, but look at this, this and this, this is the recovery. This is where we go into this cycle. This is where we do this. This is, you know, all of the downloads. And this is where you're gonna feel like a freaking superhero.

Yeah.

And, and just to have them understand that where they need to train through competition and where they're gonna feel pretty exhausted, but where it's gonna all pay off. And it's such a long timeline that unless they can be told way ahead of time when they can think clearly, because once they get into the real mud of everything, they can't think clearly and they're gonna be emotional. And, and if in you describing me pointing at that plan, that's when I would predict who's going to cry, who's going to have a meltdown, who's going to rage, who's going to. And it all happens, everybody emotionally breaks down in some form or another. It either happens in the gym, it happens off on court, off ice, wherever, but people melt down. And so it's interesting what the physical side kind of produces. The next thing I was going to say, I just lost my train of thought there. Yeah, there's the. When they're most motivated, when they end up failing mentally and physically, when the work has gotten really heavy. But then at the same time, like you're describing with injuries, that some people respond to it very differently. Like you get that anxiety to keep going because you can't stand being away from it. Other people feel like they've lost everything. And because if, especially if it's a first time injury and they've never overcome an injury in the past, first time injuries for athletes who have never been injured before are so tough and to understand that they need to keep training and need to keep working on all the other things that can move. The gift is that they can make progress in areas that they never had time to before. So it might be maybe their shoulder mobility was always stuck and they have a knee injury and now they have all this time and effort that they can put towards that shoulder mobility or flexibility or areas get recovered like they've never been recovered before. But when they've never experienced an injury before, it is very depressing for a lot of athletes when they're depending on their bodies to perform. And I know you went through so many different injuries, but as a young athlete, you know, your first ankle sprain or your first thing, whatever it is, sometimes the solace comes in being around the other players or around the other people who have been through it before. And they kind of give you that little pat on the back going, okay, you know, I had. I sprained my ankle or I did the thing, and you're gonna get through it. It's gonna take about this much time. And all that support that way really helps.

Yeah. It keeps you somewhat motivated. Knowing that there is some light here, that it's not as bad as you might think. And the point you made about all the extra. The silver lining and that injury of being able to fix other things after having gone through that process a few times. You do realize that. And that does help you temper those feelings of anxiety and worry. It's like, okay, I'm not gonna be able to jump right now, but this means that my back is gonna have a chance to. To heal a bit. And other things.

Those chronic injuries, those chronic injuries that just always kept getting ignored. Yeah. So if everyone stayed with us. So far we've been speaking largely in athlete terms, but I want to touch base on what it's like for people who are. Let's call community athletes. So people who are working out, they're staying consistent with their health activities, but feel like you might look at a Paul Duarten or look at some of the things that I post and think that we're always motivated and.

Nuh.

Right. And that this is just the way it is. But I wanted to point out when. So I've worked with clients as well as athletes for 25 years. And here's. See if you. If you're a community athlete or someone who is training recreationally, see if you fall into some of these categories in general. I see that most people are most motivated when they are pre vacation.

Yep. Gotta look good on the beach.

It's. It's bikini, it's swimsuit, swimsuit look. And springtime. Springtime is a prime time that it's not only the. The want to look good for summer, but. Or getting into the summer clothes. It's also just the fact that they've probably been a little stale and a little slower throughout the winter months because of weather and that kind of thing. And all of a sudden the daylight's longer and things feel better, so they want to get out. It's like coming out of hibernation. And then the third thing that people I find are most motivated to prep for is some sort of event. It might be something personal for them, like they are going to a wedding. Not even the one getting married, but going to a wedding or. Yeah, just some sort of life event. Often people are prepping for. And then in general. So you might find that you fall into one of those three categories. And if that's the case, you know that that's the majority of people you're falling into. What most of us do. And then the least motivated I find is holidays. So holidays is one area. And when I say holidays, I mean Easter, Christmas, the long weekends where everybody are in a culture of some sort of lazy behavior. It's the.

Yeah, it's carte blanche for everyone to, oh, I'm gonna have desserts.

Because it's nice when you normally wouldn't. Right? Yeah. You think of this. We were just going through Easter, and there's just extra treats, more this, more that, more lounging, just the things. Because it's a holiday time. So holidays, usually people are the least motivated to work out, but also traveling. So when they are traveling, I don't care whether it's work or vacation where. This is one of those realms where I hear the most, oh, I intended to, but I didn't because I was traveling. So traveling tends to be one, and then the other one is it's the work life, busy routine. So something else takes precedence because there's a busy season in work or a busy season in family life. And then people find themselves less motivated to work out because they feel like it's too much of a time pressure or a crunch to fit in there, and it's just not feeling as good that way. And so I find that people tend to have that commonality between where they are unmotivated and where they are motivated. But the beauty in that, because this isn't just me or us or this is hundreds of people that I've worked with. And then you expand that this is most people in general, just most people will, even if they're athlete or non athlete, will fall into those same habits or patterns. And knowing that that's the case for the patterns, that's what allows us to, to take proactive steps. And that's the. So it doesn't mean that, okay, I know it's a holiday coming up, so I better work out because I know most people don't and I know I likely won't. It doesn't mean that.

It means not motivating.

No, it's like a suffer fest. It's a suffer fest. Yeah.

Or a should.

So it's almost like what we've done and you experienced this with the national team. When we knew that there would be someone who was getting married or we knew it was the long weekend or there was a, a Turkish religious holiday or things like that, then we specifically plan around that and plan the recovery time at that time. So it would mean that, for instance, I've done this countless times for athletes where I know that they are on a Christmas break and they've been busting it for an entire fall season like they are spent. But I can convince them to get, say I was doing three week builds. So three weeks of. Or two weeks or three weeks of intense progressive building in their training. But then convince them to do an extra week so that we can time their recovery week on the Christmas holiday. And that usually feels fantastic because it allows them to work a little harder right before. And then they can pull back during that holiday and. And they need the rest and recovery. So not only does it feel guilt free, it feels like their body is using the recovery and feeling really good and they're getting that light activity like walking or, you know, not the heavy training.

And you're creating motivation. Just the point here around that additional week or two leading up to the break, as opposed to guys just hanging on, maybe going through the motions. Framing it the way you did gives them motivation. Yeah. Okay, let's make this push because then I actually am allowed and I'm supposed to be resting and recovering during this time that I want to be. Yeah, it makes it so much easier to do.

If I were to categorize people who are typically motivated versus people who are. So when I say people are typically motivated to work out, they're drawn to working out, whereas there's a separate category of people who are typically not motivated to work out. And these could be athletes or non, because there's plenty of athletes who couldn't stand working out. They Loved the game, whatever it was, hockey, volleyball, you name it. But they couldn't stand working out. So for the people who are unmotivated to work out, I have found that consistency is one of the best things. If I can create consistency, then they feel like they actually start to find a little bit of motivation because they start to enjoy the routine, because they're feeling good with the consistency. So consistency helps a lot there. But with the crew that are typically, these are the people who tend to overworkout. And if I generalize, they're often individual sport athletes. So it might be triathletes or swimmers, but they might need to be pulled back. And then even if they're not a competitive athlete, maybe they're a recreational fitness enthusiast or athlete. Then with them, I find that I have to build in the recovery weeks and emphasize them that they need the recovery week because our bodies do not physiologically we do not continue to progress in a linear manner. We always need some sort of recovery in some fashion. So if somebody's doing the same workouts every day, but trying to progress them every single day, and they do this week after week, something's going to hit a wall. They are either going to get sick, get injured, feel burnt out, feel exhausted. One of those things will cause their body to need a recovery week. And usually what I see in those really driven people is they will neglect any sort of recovery, keep pushing through, and then something stops them. It's an Achilles, it's a strain, it's a got the flu because they're so run down. It's something like that that stops them and sets them back. But if I can.

And tied with that normally is a lack of motivation or a decrease in motivation.

Totally. Totally. Even for the most motivated person.

Right. So those recovery weeks you're talking about are a chance to hit the motivation gas pumps and fill the tank up again and then hit the hard weeks even harder because your motivation is prime.

Yeah. And sometimes what will happen, they'll be so excited on a new program because they're highly motivated. These are the ones that love to get a new program and they're really pumped. And I'll point out to them, okay, this is where your recovery week is. And they will look at it. And then inevitably, because they're so excited about the new program and it progressed in slowly, maybe by week two or three, they're feeling really good and say week four is supposed to be a recovery week and they don't want to take the recovery week. They don't want to Stop. And I have to say to them, please do the recovery week, because if you don't, if it's not next week or the week after, something's going to happen. And I've seen it over and over again. And typically for those people, even though I've said it, they often have to learn the hard way once or twice in order to really become compliant because they feel so good, they want to keep going and they don't like missing their workout. But it's going to lead to a real lack in motivation because there's going to be a setback. So those are some of the things that we've both found in our experiences. But we want to really, really emphasize that a not all athletes are loving workouts or motivated all the time. There's plenty of professional and national level athletes who just don't even want to go to the gym. All they care about is their sport. But then at the same time, we really want to emphasize that for us, we are people who are generally driven and love to work out. But I promise you, even the most motivated and the most driven hit their walls. And for us, what it looks like when we're at our worst isn't pretty. So do you want to give a couple of your at your worst kind of scenarios?

Well, yeah, the worst is I have the habits in place to basically eliminate any of the reasons that a workout shouldn't happen. So make the time, have the clothes out, have the food ready, things are prepped, et cetera, et cetera.

And those came from professional habits that you've had.

That's a win because that done helps the numbers. But absolutely, there's been times where all those things will happen. I'll head to the gym or head downstairs to do something and start doing some movement prep and getting ready and lay on the floor and just have nothing, have nothing and beat myself up for a little bit and just feel, you know, worthless. Like, yeah, what's wrong with you? And who are you? And yeah, why can't you do anything? And it happens. It's a battle. And there's certain things that help with that and some certain things that don't. You know, having something to train for or someone to train with always helps. But for me, having my identity tied to being fit and this person who works out religiously and is strong and can do it, if I'm not feeling that, I don't want to share that with anyone thinking that they'll think less of me or that I'm not all that. So it's a really personal, private thing that happens where I'll just.

Oh, you disconnect from me too.

I'll just be on my own or make sure that I'm on my own and just shut down a little bit. And that's when it's the toughest. Yeah.

Yeah. And it is. And it's tough to. It's tough to see because I think you try to be like, you try to act like things are all good, but I know they're not. And, but I don't know why and I don't know what's going on necessarily. And you know, for each of us, we have such an identity tied with that physical side of things that when it's not working, it's just, it's frustrating because it also feeds into how we operate in the rest of day to day life. And for me, I will fight for that workout because I know that it'll help me stay mentally focused, it'll help me stay emotionally balanced, it'll help me feel physically good throughout the day. It helps me manage my injuries because there's so many old injuries that I have or current injuries that I need to. If I don't move or do the things, then they are certainly worse. But yeah, it looks, it's similar for me. It's like if, okay, I've talked myself into, okay, get there and then I might have gotten to the gym a little later than I wanted to and then it's like, okay, well I only have 40 minutes now. Well, at least if I start a warm up and then at least that's something. And then, okay, let's try and get two sets in. And you know, and then there's those times where I am laying on the ground going, you know, I can't do anything. But. And the want to, to when, when you've performed at such a high level. So you know, for me, my competition levels were in university or they might be in eco adventure races. For you, it's a professional, international level. But when you've performed at levels that are really your own personal bests and you want to feel like that all the time and you know, you can't because of maybe you fell off the wagon or maybe you're injured or, or whatever it is, or you're not motivated.

And you also know how hard it.

Is to, to get there. Yeah. And, and you, you just, you want that and then you're not quite doing what it takes to, to get that. And you know, I've seen that with so many people, but experienced it as well. Like, we. We go through it too, and I think it's part of the human condition. And every single time. All I know is that if you keep putting one foot in front of the other and keep just showing up and prepping the things and getting out the door, make those small steps your goal. If the big thing of working out is seeming too hard, then make your goal to get the fitness stuff on, get the shoes on, get the foot out the door, get the self to the gym or to meet the person to train with, but make the goal the smaller things first. If you're really, really struggling.

Yeah. That's probably the most important thing that we're saying in this entire podcast today is that exact concept of break it down. Break it down to smaller chunks until it's chunks that you can perform. Like you said, get the stuff on.

Mm.

Get the warm up done.

Like what you did tonight. What did you do tonight? You made your. You made your shake for tomorrow. I've already put my workout stuff into the bathroom. So I get up, I go in there, I.

And then I think a big part of it, too, is have some gratitude and some positivity around the fact that you have that choice to work out, that you have the ability to go and work out physically.

Yeah.

A lot of people can't walk, a lot of people can't see. There's all kinds of things that, you know, I just take for granted every day.

Yeah. Disease states, whatever people are going through.

Absolutely. And be thankful to have a chance to get down there and do something and damn well do something.

Yeah.

It doesn't have to be fantastic every time.

We'll do it. We'll do a podcast on back injuries at some point. You can. You can interview me, but no, it's exactly that. It's. It's the. Be grateful that your body is allowing you to move and. And that that movement is. Is like your gift back to your body. Just as much as it's your gift, it. It's the gift to you as well. So. So whatever you need to do, whether it's grab a friend or prep that little first step, or watch a crazy workout video or listen to a podcast or music or anything that can help your motivation. Those are all things that help us. And we hope that listening to this gives you some perspective that you're not alone in this. And we've all been there and we are highly motivated to inspire. So it's listeners and other people that also support us in helping to get our butts into the gym.

Thanks for listening everyone. We'll talk soon.

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