EP47 Kari and Paul - Money

Hey, everybody. Before we dive into today's episode, I wanted to remind you about the 1230 challenge. It's our year of 30 day challenges that Kari and I are taking on. And for August, we have a tough one.

At least we believe it will be.

Tough for most people. And what is is no tv. And along those lines, that's no Netflix, so you can't stream anything.

Okay. Okay.

So what we're doing in August, it's summer.

It's beautiful out.

Get out there and enjoy it and get away from your screen. Just spend enough time there at work or on your phone. So it's time to take a break. For the entire month. You can do this. Enroll family and friends to help you out and hang out with them. Go out and play a game, go for a walk, take the dogs out, do whatever it takes, but get away from the screens. And as an added bonus to this challenge, we want you to try to connect with one new person each day. It's going to be easy. You're not going to be staring at a screen. You're going to actually have to talk to people. So get to it. Enjoy the challenge. Join our Facebook group. The link is down below. If you want to get involved and have the support of Kari, myself and the rest of the group in there as you work through this challenge. And we have more to finish out the year, so get involved, get in it now. And now on to the episode.

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Duarten, former national and professional volleyball player.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast. We are back after a somewhat extended summer hiatus and excited to be with you again.

We missed you, so I hope you missed us. We normally do an episode together at the beginning of the month and we did not do one in July. We've been all over the place and trying to keep up with all the happenings in our lives and at the same time doing a few interviews as well and Mindset Mondays and all that good stuff. But we are here to get you going for August and into the fall.

Yeah. And we're excited to be getting back into the groove, back into the swing, recording episodes for you guys, with you guys and getting some big name athletes into the fall lineup and just continuing to experience the journey with you, share our experiences. Share athlete experiences.

Speaking of journey and experiences, the topic today is one that a lot of people don't talk about, but I think.

Probably want to talk about dolla dolla bills.

Money, money, money, money, money, money, money, money. That's not the tune for that. I'm sorry, but it's alright.

Yeah, we're talking about athletes and money and this is a thing that I've.

Seen be really tied to identity as well. What have you found?

Well, absolutely, it's, I don't know. As a guy, as a man, I feel that I was, you know, brought up to believe or influenced to believe that I have to provide for my family. I want to. And so making money is a big part of that. And playing as an athlete, it was somewhat of a measuring stick as well. You know, you want to be the best player, but when you're playing professionally, you want to be the best player and have the best compensation. You know, you feel, well, I'm contributing more, I want to be paid more. So lots of stuff there for me for sure.

You know, someone said to me about you one time that you want to take care of people, you want to be able to take care of people. And I think that's true for most men in that they want to be the one to be able to be that pillar of support. And that in our world today typically means a financial pillar. And, and, and at the same time those things you're influenced with.

Are probably.

What contributed to you wanting to take care of other people. And I know for me it's, there's other programming and influences for what I think about money, but most of us money is a piece of paper or numbers in a bank account, but most of us have some sort of intense emotional attachment to it. And I think it's magnified for athletes. Would you, would you agree with that? That it's magnified for athletes? Like it's a, it's a symbol of their worth?

Yeah, like, I think it depends. I give you kind of a double answer. I think it's different depending on the type of athlete because. Absolutely. You know, the, the numbers that make headlines are the big four sports and contracts and you know, what's LeBron making? What are, you know, what's this pitcher making? And then there's agents who are fighting for their clients there to make the same or more and validating all about dollars and contracts and extensions and free agency and all that amazing stuff. And so I could see how those types of athletes do equate a lot of their, you know, their, their public worth to what they're making. It's judge, everybody knows about it. And you know, that guy isn't worth 2 million a season. There's the arguments about all these different players for all the different sports shows and things like that. So from that perception for sure. But on the flip side, if we look at a lot of the guests that we've had on the show, these are world class athletes who don't have nickels to rub together and are scrounging for sponsors and trying to get funding just to travel to an event that they want to compete in or to buy equipment.

And it might be a World cup or something like that.

Exactly. So it's, you know, depending on the athlete in the sport and where they're at and whether they're male or female, the influence that money has or the impact that it has and you know, the thoughts that these individuals might have around money could be so varied but for either really are really prominent I think, in what they think about. Like if I'm worried about, you know, funding for my equipment, for my sport to train, that's going to be a big stress and effect who I am and how I'm operating. Or it could be a big stress if I don't have the right mindset around it. And on the flip side, if I'm equating myself to what I make in my contract and my worth and my self worth is tied to that, that's gonna be a big problem as well.

Yeah, yeah. I think there's a few things there. Number one in that having if somebody's in survival mode just to stay in their sport, then they're in such a scarcity type of mindset. So they're, they're just trying to get by, just trying to make sure they have enough food for training that week. Just make sure they have enough money to ship their equipment to wherever it needs to go for the next competition. Such a scarcity mindset, such a survival mindset versus an abundant mindset. Knowing that, you know, this contract was amazing and it feels really good and the next one, one I'm sure will be more, which I don't know that very many athletes think that way. But that concept of worth that comes with money because we think of money as worth or value, it's to me it's a separate thing. Now this is a learned thing because it took a long time for me to get to this point, but is a separate thing. Each athlete, each coach, each person involved in sport already is a huge value and a huge. They have worth or they are worthy, but we tie money to that worthiness. Like you said, is that person worth that $2 million contract, are they going to show up?

Are they going to put the numbers.

Out that show that they were worth that value? And then it's just based on a bunch of different people's opinions because one person might say oh yeah, they're totally worth it. The next person says no, I expected them to be better defensively or whatever it is. So it's so subjective. And at the same time I think that you found, and many athletes find that when they have that athlete identity and maybe they retire or move on to something else or maybe change teams and they have this athlete identity, they may not realize how tied that earning identity or money identity is linked with.

That athlete identity and.

What that has a broader impact or greater impact than maybe most athletes think until all of a sudden they're not earning anymore. Or maybe they mismanage their money when they were earning so when they retire they don't, they're not set up the way they thought they were. They were spending a lot when they were playing and then suddenly they're done playing and they've mismanaged that money, they haven't invested it and they don't really have the same kind of income as they did when they were playing. I've seen a number of athletes in that boat where, you know, it's, it's high end sunglasses or cars or this and that while they're playing, but then realize that they just don't, they don't have the means for that as soon as they're done.

Yeah, it's, yeah, it's exactly. It's the not realizing that this flow of money is going to be changing and living in the moment based on your salary and thinking that's how things will continue is it's that lack of foresight and planning really. And I think that's really an issue that only affects a fraction of, of the athletes out there. You know, if you look at all the people are competing at a university level and volleyball is the one I know best. But you know, there's second division, volleyball, there's third division. If you're playing in the first division, if you're not with a top club, a lot of players are playing, I'm air quoting here professionally only making enough kind of to get by month to month. The athletes who are making, you know, seven figure contracts and big money short term, that's a whole other different beast around the financial planning. And the issue I had, well, most problem for me absolutely retiring was, you know, regardless of what was coming in at least when I was playing, I was making enough to pay for us to go on a trip or to get somebody a gift or, and not have to think about it or worry about do I have the money for that. And like you mentioned earlier, that makes me feel good being able to give to others and do things like that. And that power was taken away from me when I stopped playing and that was incredibly hard. And that feeling of just being able to provide easily for my family, nothing extravagant, but to not have to worry at all about how something's going to be paid for all of a sudden in the situation where I don't feel like I can provide in the way I want to, was a shot at what kind of man I was and what worth I had. And you know, am I a good husband anymore because I'm not providing the way I could before on top of having stopped playing and doing the thing.

I love most, but also probably not being confident into stepping into something different that you had always done. So it's like, what am I going to do to provide what I did before? And it doesn't feel the same because anything you were doing wasn't providing the same amount of money you did before. So nothing feels as good. Plus, it's not a, it's not a, a revered action like being a, a professional athlete. So it doesn't.

People screaming, yelling at work and cheering.

It's just, it's just a lose on every, on every, on every scene that you go into. So yeah, now on the flip side of it, from my personal level, I tend to gear things towards you or the athletes. But for me, I have made a living being a professional in sports. So whether it's working for national sport institutes or national sport bodies or professional teams or private clients, that's how I made my living. But if I look at what I did as a strength and conditioning coach or manager in a Canadian sport institute, there's only a handful of those in the entire country. And if I look at my starting salary and a full time salaried employee working with the top level athletes in the country and also connecting with others in my field internationally, my starting contract was barely $30,000 Canadian for the year. Now, as at the time, as a single mom, I, you know, I'm barely getting by, but I'm such a believer and so invested passionately into sport that it didn't really matter to me. I didn't even think that that was a bad thing necessarily because I wasn't so tied to the money I was so passionate about the sport. So I really think that for me personally, there's a really close parallel with the athletes who are barely scraping by because they're still doing it for the love of the sport. They're finding a way to make it happen. They have a strong passion and belief and that was me. But then as you keep going and you realize that, you know, I was like you, I was the provider, I was the one that I wasn't depending on anybody else to make a living and to, you know, pay my house mortgage and provide for my child and do all the things. So there's still that element of survival going on and not necessarily abundance because there's just not enough money to feel like you're abundant. Even if, even if the salary goes up and even with the, with the sport body that I worked with, my salary only ever went up to $50,000 in a given year. So if you take a look at that at top end sport now, I'm giving numbers and a lot of, if you want numbers out there. If you look at some of the, the hockey players who are playing in Europe versus playing in the NHL, you're looking at numbers anywhere between probably that 100,000 to 800,000 mark, an annual or a contract earning, and you look at a CFL player or pro volleyball player, they're probably looking at similar types of salaries anywhere in, if it's a division two or three, anywhere in between that $30,000 for a contract to a, you know, $500,000 for a contract, an annual contract. So it's, there's such huge ranges, but usually those athletes, and like I was young in the beginning of my career, in my, you know, late 20s or in the beginning of my career, you're young and you don't realize that that amount isn't going to be enough to invest and keep. You don't realize how short the career is, let's put it that way. So for the athletes who I see earning, say anywhere between that $30,000 for a contract to a $500,000 for a contract, not the big pro, say NHL or big four contracts, but you look at those smaller contracts and because the person or the athlete's so young, they don't have the foresight to see necessarily most of them anyway, that they, they're going to have to have something else or they're going to have to be really smart with that money and invest.

It and save a lot.

And because the next thing, once they're done that contract or done that career, it's so short lived.

Maybe it's five years, maybe it's 10 years if they're lucky. And then what? So then they're 30 years old and they may or may not have a university degree and then what do they do and what are they going to earn? Is it remotely comparable to the other thing that they did? And usually they're pretty lost in.

What.

They want to do.

Yeah. So it just really, I think the huge takeaway there is that you can't be in it unless you're in the half of the top 1% in only a select few sports in the world. You can't really be in it to. This isn't a winning lottery ticket. You know, you're playing your sport because you love it. You can make a living at it or sustain yourself in it, potentially save something from it, depending on how well it goes. But you're, you're in it because you love it and to keep competing and I mean, I started playing to go to the Olympics and make the national team. I didn't, you know, think, oh, I want to be a pro volleyball player. That was a nice bonus that that's an option and, and got into it because I wanted to get as far as I could and be the best volleyball player I could be. But the lack of force that I had is to absolutely not. Well, I guess what I'm trying to say is that while you're in it, you have to have the awareness that you're losing ground to everyone else around you and that you're gonna spend your time with when you're done and that the people who are your age and your friends who aren't in sport when you retire are going to be 10 years, 15 years into a career and just at a different place financially and stability on average than you're going to be coming out. And so if you're not investing time and planning throughout your career of what your next move is, what your next step is, where you want to work and what you see yourself doing financially when you're playing, then you put yourself in a position like I was, where you're going to end up stopping and be directionless and encounter a lot of issues, a lot of stress, and you can feel like hell.

So did they ever, like, did they.

Ever have financial planning for athletes who are with a national team? Because I wasn't aware of any of that.

No, but.

And any of your pro contracts, did any of the clubs ever provide any sort of financial planning? Because it doesn't matter if you're a Pro athlete, or you are an accountant or a teacher or you know, any number of other professions. One thing we typically don't learn in high school, and unless we've gone into this particular field in university, we don't learn in university. And that is how to either save for our future or plan for our future financially, or how to disperse whatever income we have coming in. So is it going to, you know, all for our bills or is some being put away for savings? Is some being donated? What's happening with our money? And so many people have, and I'm speaking as a married person in a marriage, but also I've been in other relationships, serious relationships. And money is one of those massive bones of contention in relationships. Most of us have probably heard our parents talk about it at some point or another. And here we are trying to navigate.

So you're saying that couples might argue about money.

Yeah. Oh, you're funny. But here we are and nobody why people are arguing about it, trying to figure things out without any of the knowledge or the skill as to what to do with it. So everybody gets free, frustrated emotionally because no one's ever been taught anything about money. So you've got athletes with this identity around an athlete, then you've got anybody else who exists. And money just becomes this big bone of contention, often with between couples or between your parents or between people that you know, maybe even roommates in how money is spent. If people are roommates in a given house and it becomes this massive bone of contention, yet it's simply because nobody knows either how to talk about it or they have these emotional attachments to it that they don't know where it ever came from. Can you think of something that you were taught, maybe not purposefully, but something you learned from your parents? That might be a line that they said over and over.

Like, yeah, like we hear things like, money doesn't grow on trees. Did your parents ever say that?

I don't remember them saying that. I remember them teaching me stuff about.

Money, though that would be the exception. Neither of my parents taught me anything about money. I learned some things from watching them, but I heard as well as learned from watching. But I heard things like, we can't afford that. No, we can't afford that. No, we can't afford that. I heard that a lot. And then I find myself as an adult saying those types of things when it's not necessarily the reality or the truth. It's this knee jerk reaction that I was taught, you know, and it's, it's a Choice. And then the other thing I found, being in business or being an entrepreneur, that. And this will happen for people who have contracts, whether it's in sport or other fields, that your bank account fluctuates up and down, and then you have this anxious feeling as soon as it's going down. But the only reason it's down was because of whatever action was taken the previous month or the previous 60 days. It's got nothing to do with anything. And yet we attach an emotion to seeing the numbers going down. But it's so hard to look at it just objectively and go, oh, that's fine, fine.

That's just because of this and this.

We tend to get really flared up about it one way or another. And as an athlete, it. It plays into everything that they're doing. But they may not realize how much of an impact that has until it's almost too late.

You know, they either don't have enough.

Money in the bank account to keep doing things, or they don't realize how attached their identity is to how much money is in their bank account. Or, you know, like it's. It's almost too late when they learn the hard lesson about money.

Yeah. Not having a plan when you're done playing.

Yeah.

Is guaranteed to bring that on.

Yeah.

If you're not transitioning to something where you can find fulfillment, enjoyment, and also earn some income, then it's the perfect storm.

Yeah. How many people from their pro sport are naturally transitioning into something that they.

Make the exact same amount of money and have the exact same amount of fulfillment?

Yeah. Zero.

Right. And then if you look at people who are working day to day, so many people. I've encountered this.

So many people with my. With my clients, they've either lost fulfillment in what they do, but they stay at it because now they've gotten to a point where it pays so much. Like, I've heard that referred to as the golden handcuffs. So they won't leave what they do because the money's still too good. And how many athletes have you seen like that? I've seen a number of athletes staying in sport because of the money, even though they're so burnt out. They're so unhappy.

They're so burnt out, but they have a contract. They have to somehow grind through.

And that's the same in.

That's paralleled in real life outside of sport as well.

It's like sticking with it for the money because of the money. And it still. It feels awful because they're not. They don't enjoy what they do, the.

Only reason they're still doing it is.

Because of the money and. And then it creates another crap feeling around money again.

Yeah. You're doing it for all the wrong reasons.

Yeah.

Why you started and you're destroying your body and.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

It's.

Would you, would you say you were. There were points in your career where.

You were just so beat up and.

So, you know, beat down and not.

Necessarily loving it at that point?

Would you say there were times where.

You were, you know, just fulfilling the.

Contract or just, you know, what, what was it?

What was that like for you?

No, I think I was lucky because I was lucky enough to play with competitive teams that were typically had a shot or in the hunt to win something. So the grind for me came more just the mid season, the late, later in the season before playoffs and big matches started of the road games against a mediocre team that you have to win and just the grind of that, you know, physically and mentally. Ten years into the playing career, 15 years in, having to go travel again to play a team you don't want to play, but you have to win or it's going to affect where you're crossing over in the playoff standings or whatnot. And those were the. That's. I think, you know, really honestly that that's as bad as it got for you. Yeah. Which is really lucky. But definitely seasons where you're fighting through an injury that you really shouldn't be.

Yeah. And because you're doing it for the.

Money and what you have to complete that contract or through the expectation is that you're going to be back on court and meanwhile you're going back way too early.

Yeah. And that's where you feel like more than it's the business thing and you're more of a commodity a little bit. But honestly, I was lucky from that aspect, I think throughout my career. Whereas I know lots of guys I played with or against that, you know, were playing and shouldn't have been or just wanted to be out of the playoffs or not make the playoffs because they want to just collect the check and go party all summer.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I've seen plenty of that too. For myself personally because of the demands of certain, certain teams or certain times in my career that I had to step back from continuing on with certain things because of the demands of travel and us having the number of kids.

And all of that.

But I was able to diversify and still find fulfill by working with really motivated private clients. Maybe they were a triathlete or a cyclist or people who really wanted to keep progressing and drive themselves physically so I still could get my fulfillment even if I wasn't working directly with a national team or without having a whole bunch of national level athletes every single day. But for you, you have, it's been a little harder to find as much personal fulfillment because there's, it's so hard.

To compare to the level of sport.

That you were in competitively. But now you have something that you get a lot of fulfillment.

But the difference is instead of, instead.

Of getting paid for it, you have to pay for it.

Yeah. So that'd be flying.

Yeah.

So I'm burning money doing that.

It's an expensive hobby. Is that what we'd say?

Yeah, but absolutely, though, that's something that I love and lights you up. Yeah. So it's, you know, easily worth it. And I'm willing to sacrifice other things to make that happen. You know, the priorities and what I value and what I experience. It makes it easy to not drink a five dollar latte every day and say go flying once or twice a.

Month and just I think some of the listeners.

But it's easy because you love it and you know, and it's the same with training decisions and competing and things. The, when you're clear on what you want, the decisions to make it happen or the discipline, all of a sudden you're disciplined.

Yeah.

No, you know, it just instantly happens.

I say this all the time to people that if somebody wants it bad enough, they find a way. Absolutely want it bad enough, they'll find a way.

And what I was going to say was that I think the listeners are doing the math, going, okay, how does the latte, not drinking the latte pay for the flight?

Do you drink that many lattes?

No, but what you're saying, I think is just sacrificing some of the little things that instead of paying five bucks a few times a week, then that's going to go into the pot that pays for the flying lesson at the end of that week or the following week. And it's an easy choice to make, just sacrificing on the little things that don't matter as much. But what would you, if you had to give words of advice to someone who is, as an athlete or non athlete, what words of advice would you.

Give so that they aren't as tied up in their identity from a financial.

Or a money perspective?

Are there some things that you've learned.

That would benefit others that way?

Yeah, I think so. I would just Point. Well, it's just what we're kind of talking about that I think for every athlete listening started playing sports because you love it, not because of the money. And finding the passion for whatever you're doing makes the money component of it so much less important. And obviously money does have importance in terms of paying bills and buying food and things, but not, not to a point where it places there has an effect on your value as a person and what you can do. And I think that just like you were talking about earlier, making sure you're having a plan and seeking financial advice when you're playing to be organized about that things and focusing on why you're doing something and loving it and what you're giving to other people through it as opposed to what you're getting, sets you up for better reception of whatever life's going to throw your way.

What about the people who have the.

The golden handcuffs kind of scenario, you know, where you. They feel like they're, they're tied into great pension.

There's three, five years out from retirement or whatever it is. Good income.

Yeah, it could be that number like seven or eight years where it's just, it's so close, but yet so far. But what do you, what do you think for those people who are working at something that they just do not love, it's actually something they don't like anymore. It doesn't give them fulfillment and they're just kind of, you know, pushing through it and.

Well, I feel like you've said, I don't know if you said it on air, but you've, you know, you just say that this, it's not a dress rehearsal yet. One life. Right. And if you want.

This isn't a practice life. This is not a practice life. So you're gonna waste eight years.

Well, that's exactly. It is. It is having the thing that you're gonna buy with the money you're making more important than the eight years of your life? 46 weeks of work, you're putting in a year, X hours a week at something that you're not enjoying and don't feel like you're contributing or growing from.

Here's what people think though, because, you.

Know.

We know a number of people who are retired. But what people think is that they work so long and then, or this is what the previous, the generation older than us and maybe our generation would think is that they work throughout their life in order to get to retirement because at that point then they're going to have the time and the Money that they want to do what they want, and they'll do what they want when they're retired. And then we've got a generation that's younger than us, so maybe our kids age and a little older than our kids, who are more likely to want to live their life now, but don't have a clue as to how to do that quite yet or how to make the money and make the living at the same time. So, you know, you've kind of got both completely opposite issues. One demographic that doesn't quite know how to make the money yet, but is willing to do whatever they love to figure out a way, and another demographic that hits retirement and suddenly has the money and has the freedom to do what they want, but they're miserable because they thought that what they wanted was just to do nothing, not be so busy. And then they find that doing nothing or just going on some vacations is not at all fulfilling. It's fun for periods of time, but then they find themselves flat or lost.

Yeah.

And so it's, you know. Any thoughts on those?

Yeah, I just kind of more of the same that having awareness of what. What lights you up. And let's be honest here. I mean, everybody can't be doing exactly what they want all the time. I mean, there's certain jobs that people have to take because they. They need a job. And we can't all be doing exactly what we love. But if you're not doing something that you love, then I would recommend spending any of your free time learning about whatever it is that you want to be doing, getting, you know, looking at other options and continuing to have the mindset of I want to get to something else and proactively trying to make that happen and not settling into something and accepting that as your destiny. Because we're still going to need people to collect garbage in the city and do things that I'm sure a lot of people don't want to be doing.

There's such a huge difference, though. Like, sorry, you're. You're looking at the collecting garbage in the city. It's the. It's the finding love in what you do. So instead of always loving what you do, but finding the love in what you do. You know, that garbage collector guy that is, you know, has a pop in his step and says good morning and, you know, just loves the satisfaction of contributing to the neighborhood. And then, you know, the garbage guy who chucks the bin upside down three lawns away from yours and, you know, does not give a crap about whether Every bit of garbage got out or whatever, you know, that those two people, one hates their job, one's going through the motions, and the other one sees value in what they do. They know that they're contributing, and they love that they are contributing. And it's still the crap. Some. The rest of us might view it as a crap job, you know.

Oh, yeah, it's. I mean, what you're talking about there is the mindset around whatever you're doing, and the way you do anything is the way you do everything. So what kind of person do you want to be? How do you want to perform at whatever job you've agreed to do versus, yeah, life is, you know, happening to me, and I have no control over it. But just my thought was that for whatever state you're in, if you're doing the job that isn't your dream job, to have that growth mindset of looking at other options, and that's what, you know, you've had to hit me over the head with over the last few years of.

I hit you over the head.

Thinking. Of. Thinking of. Yeah, of, you know, what do you really want to be doing and what lights you up? And it is possible to do those things, but it's going to take work outside of work, and I think that's one good way to tackle it.

So, literally, I don't hit him over the head, but I did smack him before this episode legitimately, because he wanted me to wake him up, and so I just gave him a smack on the cheek. Just as a funny thing. He's like, no, smack me harder. I'm like, are you sure?

He's like, yes, smack me harder.

And so I, like, just tapped again.

And he's like, no, smart.

Smack me like you mean it.

I'm like, I don't.

Smelling salts. Next exercise.

Yeah, I might unleash. I'm afraid to really go this direction.

So.

No, but it might feel like a hit over the head because we're so stuck. And the solution for being stuck is to take some sort of action. Because then at least if you took.

Action and it was crappy, at least you know that, oh, that's not the direction I'm going.

So. So I'm going to head this other direction.

And it can be something that I maybe find that I enjoy, but it's trying different things. And that, I think, is what more of the younger generation is willing to try different things and spend more time experiencing. Maybe it's the world, or maybe it's different things they might think they might be good at. But then, no, I don't like that so much. So I'm going to try something else. None of us are going to be stuck in the exact same career from beginning to end. Everything evolves and changes and meanders around. And it's so unusual for a person to pick a career in their early 20s and then stick with it and then have complete fulfillment with that. And there was some research in, I think it was Scotland versus the uk. One of them, Scotland, I think, had.

People.

I can't remember which was which, but one culture had people pick their careers earlier. And so they got more proficient at the skills of their career very quickly, but they ended up having less job satisfaction and deviating from that career sooner than the people who had, say that, what do you call it, the gap year from high school that year to kind of figure themselves out a little more and learn a little more about life and that kind of thing than those people. They didn't become as skilled or proficient at what they did as early, but they tended to last longer and have more fulfillment in what they did. So, you know, the biggest thing, I mean, we look at money and all money is, and our finances is if we're having some sort of feeling good or feeling bad about it. It's whatever emotion we attach to money. Money is money. It's just a number, a piece of paper. And what we think of it is really the thing. So our fulfillment becomes the critical piece, the critical key.

Yeah, we could talk about this for a long time. I think it's something that will aim to dive into more with our guests. We've had some great insight from a lot of the amateur athletes. I think of Kevin Hill, for example, we interviewed. Just struggles of funding getting to different events and things. And it's something that I think is relevant for every athlete that we're going to be interviewing and something that we definitely want to bring up and get into more and more just to blow this topic out. Because there's just so many things tied to money in so many different ways. As we've touched on here, we've gone all different directions with it.

You know what would be cool is to interview a financial planner who's dealt with athletes like who.

Who specializes in finance planning for athletes.

And interview them on what they've found and give their key. Their key insights.

Well, we'll look into that.

I think so. I think that'd be fabulous because anybody in any career or profession would gain information or tips from it. But at the same time, it could be giving excellent tips to athletes as well, for sure. Ideas, thinking out loud, banter back and forth. This is what you get.

All right, so speaking of what they.

Get, what's coming up in the fall or in August?

Yeah, let's just quickly touch on the fall.

So we're gonna be, we're gonna try and get out. What are we getting out? We're getting out probably two mindset Mondays out a month, likely two interviews a month and one or two depending on the month. Sessions like this with Paul and Kari. We want to know what you are interested in because there's so, so much that we find value in, but we want to contribute value to you. So pop your comments in, give us some feedback, find us, rate us, review us. We want to know that stuff, send us so that we can evolve this podcast into what's really valuable for you. So, but we know we've got some really, there's one interview that's coming up that just I am so excited for. We have it interviewed and we, we just have to get it posted and aired. We've got to get it into the lineup and then we've got a couple other people coming up that we're really excited about as well. And if you have suggestions or you're an athlete that you know there's a coach or a high performance athlete that you'd like to hear from, then let us know. We'd love to make those connections. And lastly, there's the growing pains of what we do. And we've had a couple of hardcore growing pains, lost complete episodes. We have to go groveling back to the person, the athlete that we interviewed, asking so you know, humbly whether we can interview them again because we've had technical difficulties, completely lost audio files and just. Yeah, there's the things that you hope would. Yeah, the things you hope would never happen. They've happened and so we've experienced them and it's onward and upward and we don't have the staff or the, you know, full time scenario or the best equipment, but we are putting out what we think is going to be a good thing for you.

So thanks for listening and watch for more this fall. We're excited. You better be excited and we will talk to you soon.