EP51 Karine Thomas - Synchronized Swimming Olympian

This is episode 51 of the Empowered Athlete podcast. Today on the show, we're thrilled to welcome Karin Thomas. She was a 10 year veteran of Canada's synchro teams, doing both team synchro and duet. She's competed in two Olympic games and is a double Pan Am gold medalist. Growing up in a family that basically spent all their time in the water. Karen's an incredible person and you will not believe the story she has about the training volume and, and things she went through in her career. You know, it's a beautiful sport. On top of the water, it smiles, form and finesse, but underneath the surface, it is a blender of activity where feet and legs can be injured. Corrine has broken her foot in training and kept on going and many other injuries. The mental struggles of competing at the highest levels for 10 years. Corinne shares it all with us and it's a fantastic interview. Before we get to Corinne, though, one to quickly mention the 1230 challenge coming up for October as we finish a month of no sweets. It's been tough. October, though, is about getting outside. Our challenge to you is 30 minutes every single day. Get outdoors and enjoy it. Go running, go for a walk, get the dogs out, get the kids out. Just get outside, enjoy the beautiful fall colors, and enjoy our planet. And now let's get to Corinne Thomas.

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul.

Duarten, former national and professional volleyball player.

All right, we're back with the Empowered Athlete podcast and Corinne Thomas, thank you for joining us. Pleasure to have you on the show. And we know you just left the gym, so you're swole, you're pumped up and you're ready to talk all about training and everything else that went into your synchronized swimming career. Welcome.

Hey, did you go to the gym just for us? So we'd be super impressed.

Right on.

Okay, before we really get started, what did you. What were you training today? What were you working on?

Oh, major leg day today. So my legs are still shaking. I couldn't. I could barely walk.

And if it's major leg day, do you get the. So a lot of people get the yawns or they get the nauseous kind of. Do you get any of that?

Yeah, I get the Shakespeare is what I. So right now my hands are still. They're completely shaking. I'm trying to, like, calm myself down.

But it's just like, I love It, I love it. I'm so, I'm so. That makes me happy in a sick sort of way. So I love it. So you come from an incredible sport that a lot of people love, love, love to watch at the Olympics, but may not know a whole lot about the background of this sport. So tell our listeners a little bit about your sport.

Right, so I guess synchronized swimming, one of the biggest things that we try to do at least is to make it look easy. So from outsiders perspective it always looks beautiful and, you know, elegant and easy almost. But you know, the training and all of the hours that we put behind every routine that we end up presenting is tremendous. Um, it's a lot of rehearsing, a lot of like redoing the same 20 seconds of a routine. And so I think it's a quite well rounded sport. I would. Couldn't have picked a better sport.

It seems like one of those sports that people watch with kind of awe and fascination and they can't quite look away because they, they sit there wondering how, how that long and, and they're upside down. How do they stay so perfectly held and, and all those amazing things and you had to learn how to do that. So can you give us kind of a, I don't know, a little timeline or snapshot that brought you to become an Olympian?

Well, I. Synchronous swimming actually stumbled onto me more so than I looked for it. It really, it was on TV during the Olympics in 2000 and so I was 11 years old and I saw it like everyone else on tv, like you just said, kind of fell in love with it and I asked my mom if I could try it. And honestly, the next September I was in that pool and I, I loved every second of it. So I started a little bit later than most synchronized swimmers I know. I'd say usually you start in your, like early, kind of like you're 7 or 8 years old. Ish. But I was 11 and I then trained in my hometown, which is. Gets no. Right across from the, from Ottawa. I trained there for three years and then I moved to Montreal to pursue like higher level of training and high performance training and then I made the national team three years after.

That's kind of a crazy fast trajectory.

I want to ask though, I mean, from what I know about your family, your dad and mom were water polo players and your grandmother was a synchro swimmer. So I just picture your house having a pool or, you know, your family being in the water all the time.

So.

Yeah. So I would wonder.

Yeah, I grew up in that.

You started 11, but from a swimming strength standpoint, I feel like you must have been miles ahead of a background.

I always. I always loved being in the water. Whether it was, you know, a lake, a river, the ocean, a pool, I was always happy to be in water. So I think I was always very comfortable in it. And so that definitely helped. And then, you know, as a young child, I just did all of the sports that I could try. I did anything ranging from soccer, tennis, ballet, gymnastics. So I think that all kind of came together once I joined synchro. And because maybe I was older, too, I was able to receive corrections faster, probably, and assimilate different techniques a lot quicker than most.

So do you think that being a little older and having done all of those other sports, do you think that helped prevent maybe some of the burnout that can happen with such an intensely demanding sport like synchro?

Possibly. But listen, like, I'm not going to sit here and say I didn't have a burnout at some point in time, you know, like, it's. It's any high performance sport, you're gonna push yourself to that limit. And I think that regardless of when you started, I think you're going to get there. You're going to push that limit to where you think that you're going to just call it quits, and then you just don't, and somehow you're still standing the next day.

You mentioned that, and you're kind of alluding to some of the tougher parts here, but you mentioned a moment ago how you just always loved being in the water, lake, pool, all of that. What do you not love about being in the water?

Being cold. This girl right here cannot handle being cold. Like, if I am. If I get a chill, I am the most, like, miserable person on the planet.

Kari can relate.

And I. And I say it very loudly. Yeah.

Oh, I'm. Yeah, I. I'm cold a lot of the time, and. And I really. Yeah, I'm constantly.

It was 30 degrees yesterday here, and London and her feet were freezing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

That's just. Yeah, that's my normal.

Yeah. Yeah. So. And I let the people know, too. Like, everyone around me knows that I.

You don't understand how cold I am, though.

Yeah, no, I. Yeah, I just want people to feel my.

Please relate to me. You must understand. So you. You. I guess it would be like centralizing for a team sport, but for an individual sport, it's like, well, you. You kind of centralize, but you. You bill it you move in with a family, you did that by the time you were 13, is that right?

That is right. So I was, I was 13 years old when I moved away from home. I sort of just packed my bags and moved to Montreal, which is really just two hour drive away from Ottawa. It's not really that far. But regardless, you know, I changed schools, I changed swim groups and all my friends were different. I didn't live with my parents anymore. So it was a pretty big shift for me. But I, I had like the best trainers, the best like coaches I could have ever asked for in Montreal. I had a really great billet family that I still consider part of my own family. I, you know, I talk to them just as much as I talk to my own family. So I, I, I was very, very lucky. With everything that sort of ended up happening out there. I think it would have been a different story if one of those things in my environment would have been different.

The decision to make that change in.

The move.

What was the rough plan going into it? Was it try this for a year and see how it goes or was it not committing to this and there's, you know, at the end of X number of years, then you'll have the next result. What was the kind of plan there with the move?

Yeah, I, okay, so I, I'll tell you this. One thing about myself is that I'm not and I never have been. I'm working on it, but I'm not very confident in myself at all. I don't believe in my abilities. I don't really see that I'm, you know, good enough for most things in life. And so I actually got recruited to go to this, this club in Montreal. And it took me by surprise, but it was such a nice boost in confidence coming from the exterior. Somebody like seeing me that hadn't coached me before, that just thought that I was good enough to be on the best team in Canada at that point. And I, I was so happy and I was just like, oh my gosh, I could actually do this. Okay, let's give this a try. Never thinking in a million years that I would make a national team, let alone an Olympic team like that was way too far in my mind. But I, I just went for it. And I don't know that I had a one year plan, a two year plan. I just, I didn't even think about it, honestly. I just, I did it, I liked it. We kept rechecking in like every, every year if I still wanted to do it. And I Kept saying yes. So I was very lucky that my parents were super supportive of the whole thing. And I. Yeah, just get that.

That's incredible, because it. I mean, well, there's. There's a couple things, like, you had mentioned about how. How many factors it took for that all to work out well, but one of the things that came to me was just how special a Billet family needs to be to do what they do for and. And the love they have to have for sport and other people in order to welcome somebody into their home and. And then really, truly make a home for that person and make them part of the family. And.

One. And I just got chills you saying that. Like, I think about them. Their names are Sylvie and Jill, by the way. And I. I can't thank them enough for everything that they did for me. Like, they went above and beyond what they could have done, really. I went on Christmas vacations with these people. Like, I. I was part of the fam. And they just, you know, welcomed me with open arms, provided a loving home, great food, good. Like, they would drive us to the pool and back all the time. Like, I Honestly, I really.

And you became good friends with the other person, the other young athlete you were living with, didn't you?

Absolutely. Yeah. So she's my best friend, so still to this day. We went to the Olympics together. We ended up doing a bunch of routines together, so we. We became very, very close. Basically spent all of our waking moments together. And I.

That's incredible. And do you. Do you find that now that you're older and looking back, you know, as a kid, say you're 13, 14, 15 years old, at that age, it's hard to really have a lot of gratitude and understanding for what that family is providing you. But, you know, you move forward however many years and you look back and it really sinks in how. What an impact they have on you and what it really takes to be the family they needed to be?

Oh, yeah. Oh, for sure. And I think at the time, I always knew how special it was and how lucky I was. But you're right. Perspective of time just really shifts how much more grateful I am towards them. And, I mean, honestly, getting away from my own. I should get into this. Why not? Right. Podcast. Let's do. So I grew up and my parents are, you know, great and everything, but my mom did have a problem with alcoholism. And so when I was growing up, it was always, you know, I never quite knew what to expect when I would get home. And so some days were awesome. And some days weren't so awesome. And I almost took that, you know, opportunity to leave my own household as, you know, let's see if a different environment can help me out as a person as well. And it definitely did. I think that I would be a very different person if I would have stayed in that environment.

Do you think that.

I'm going to say uncertain environment of being in an alcoholic home. Do you think that that played into the shaky confidence that you had at that age.

Perhaps. I think it also. It. It made me very, like, reliant on my. Knew that I could rely on myself and confident in the sense that I can. I can get stuff done on my own. You know, I can. I can rely on myself. I can get to wherever I need to get to, sort of on my own, not having to ask for too much help, because I couldn't necessarily always do that as a child. So I think there's a part of me that really developed a very, you know, self. I don't know, say, a toughness, not motivation, but there's a lot of, like, I rely. Yeah, maybe toughness. Yeah. A little bit of a little grit.

Having personally been someone who. I spent a couple years living in the US with my aunt and uncle, and they were the only real example that I had of kind of a functional relationship or family or what parents would often do for kids. And. And despite some of the hardships that went on throughout my younger years, I still credit what I went through with providing an incredible amount of resourcefulness that.

You might notice for yourself.

I've noticed for myself that I don't see as many other people naturally have that resourcefulness.

And I think it probably comes from those kind of situations where you learn to rely on yourself like you did.

For sure. For sure. So, in a way, I mean, it made me the person I am today and the athlete I was, too, I think. So maybe it just gave me that extra little edge I needed to get through some of the tough times.

You headed in. Sorry, you headed into. You made the senior national team by the. By 2006, is that right?

Yeah, 2006. And then I competed at the 2007.

Which is remarkable when you think of the intricacy and technicality of your sport, and you only first watched it on TV in 2000, like, you know, just to. Just to wrap people's minds around that. That is such a steep learning curve for the kind of choreography skill ability that you would have to. Have to be competing in a World Championships in 2007. And you'd only right. Seen the sport in 2000 and had never done the sport in 2000.

Like, it's just, yeah, it's a, it's a technical sport. And I definitely think that I advanced through those techniques very quickly.

For our listeners, though, on how things must have shifted gears moving from club to the national team. Can you kind of just take us back to. Oh, my gosh, you know, that, that, yeah, the, the incredible shift, that big jump heard for that accelerated learning that you're just talking about there.

And I. So this is funny because I remember going to the tryouts for the senior national team and my coach just sort of saying, like, oh, we're going to do this for, you know, experience. It's really just for the fun of it. You'll see how the big girls do it, you know, and then in a few years you'll, you know, you'll have a better chance of making the Olympic team. And I was like, okay, cool. Like, no big deal. I. We flew to Winnipeg and things just really were clicking for me. I was really going, like, things were really going well. All the physical tests, all the technical things that it was a great sort of week of tryouts for me. And the next thing I knew, I was on the, like, top 16 roster and then made the top 12 a few days later. And I should have probably stayed at number, you know, 10 or 11 on the lineup, but for a bunch of different reasons, I ended up making the top eight. So a few injuries, few girls dropped out. And then next thing I knew, I was swimming all of the routines and I don't think I was fully prepared for it, to be honest. I. I don't know that I was mentally strong enough to handle my sport becoming a job. It all of a sudden shifted from, you know, going to high school in the morning and then training in the afternoons to training from 7 in the morning till 7 o' clock at night. And I had no friends on the team. I had very little confidence in my ability to be able to, like, help the team out. I was going to big world championships, something I knew nothing about. I just. Everything was brand new and I was cold all the time.

Miserable, miserable all the time. Yep.

And just, it was, it was a tough, tough year for me. I remember I had, I lived pretty far away from the pool at the time, and so I had to get up at 4:35 to catch the 4:45 bus a.m. and I would, I, I would cry myself to sleep every night. I would wake up with my puffy eyes from Crying and then would jump onto the bus and, like, ride the bus for about an hour to get to the pool. And then just. So it was like, what every day.

Was out of bed, you know, literally. So you're. You're crying yourself to sleep. What? You know, I feel like 99 of people just pack it in.

That sounds like that's a really good question.

And so how. How do you. Yeah, it was the mental talk that got you out of bed and on the bus.

I. You know what? I don't even know that there was a mental talk. I think it was like. It was robot mode. I didn't have any thoughts going in. It was just like my body was just doing it. And I didn't question it too much. I didn't, you know, ask myself these big exist. Existential questions. I just sort of did it. And it. I mean, for better or worse, it got. I got through it. And I think at the end of that year, I got cut. So one of the girls that was out on injury came back, and then she regained her spot, and I got cut out. And at the time, I was devastated, but it was the best thing that could have ever happened to me because I ended up spending a year back at the club and training for, you know, seven months with the. My friends, with the coaches I knew with, you know, all these, like, this great environment that I knew from before and then went back to the National Team trials the next year and was way more prepared for everything that was, you know, that.

That probably. That pivotal cut was probably the exact thing that allowed you to make it to two Olympics.

Absolutely, Absolutely. And it gave me so much perspective, you know, like, the fact that I was so devastated from that cut made me realize how much I actually wanted it and how much I needed to shift my perspective on that environment and what that meant to me. So, you know, going into. Into, like, the national team after the 2008 Olympics, I was ready. I was. You know, of course, there were days that I. I hated it, too, and that it was really tough, but it was way different than the year.

And then you were on the trajectory for the London. The 2012 London Olympics?

Yes, ma'. Am. And it's funny because I look back on, you know, those first few weeks or months of that quad leading up to London, and I remember thinking that those Olympics seemed so far away. It seemed like four years were just gonna. They. They might just kill me. I didn't. I didn't even know if I was gonna make it, but.

And did it go by Way faster than you thought.

At some points, yes. And at some points, no. I mean, I have probably, I have so many stories from that time period. Those four years were so eventful for me. I like, we went on a lot of trips, a lot of training camps, a lot of crazy competitions that I ended up building some really strong, strong bonds with my teammates and I.

Now you said training camps now. I think there was a real memorable Thailand experience that, you know, if it wasn't going to break you, if that didn't break you, nothing would. What was. Share a little bit about that experience.

Oh, Thailand. Yeah, I, it's funny, I talk about Thailand a lot, but it's because it was so, so meaningful, I think, for the whole team. But I just, it made quite the impact on me. And it's funny, I was just in Montreal last, last month, I guess, and we all the girls, we all sort of got together, the girls down. And we still talk about that training camp. Like it's still, like it's still a heavy. Yeah, it's a good conversation. Conversation. But so we were in Thailand basically for six weeks leading up to the World Championships in 2011 in China. So Thailand's pretty close to China. We thought, you know, let's get used to the whole time change, train out in Asia for a while and then we'll head on to China, feel super ready. But that training camp, I mean, we were staying at a beautiful hotel. They had amazing food. The pool, pool was beautiful from the outside and we had everything we could have ever wanted. We just, we didn't expect, I don't think the amount of heat that would come in like, come that summer. It must have been an average of 46 degrees Celsius. We, the pool would overheat most days, so they would have to put big giant ice cubes in it. Like the, they would fill bins up and then freeze them overnight. And then those would try to, they would try to put those in the pool. Cool the pool down. Yeah. So, I mean, I loved it, don't get me wrong. I wasn't cold for the first time in my life, so I loved every second of it. But it was tough to get through.

It exhausts, fatigues you faster.

And then, yeah, oh, 100%. And we were spending, you know, we were in the pool at 6:30 in the morning and then we weren't out of there until 3:30pm and then we would do our weight session when the sun would sort of go down a little bit for us because it was all outdoors. So we'd do weights from like four to about five. So our days were just in the sun nonstop. And halfway through or like 3/4 way through of that camp, our team captain decided that she wasn't going to be able to compete at the World Championships for. I mean, I think mentally she just wasn't able to handle everything that was happening. So she had to go home. And so she left us and we were trying to scramble, like not only filling her spot, but trying to fill.

That void of when something like that happens. How do you. What happened in your situation to fill that void? Like, who did the team pick? A new team captain? Did the coaches pick, like, how did that work?

We kind of naturally had team leaders. You know, how in every team there's always like a few girls that can step up to that plate. Naturally. We didn't really have a huge discussion about it. I don't think it was quite evident who would pick up the slack in that sense. So I was always super confident in the girls that were in place already to do different, like sort of leadership jobs. And they just all. There's like two or three of them that just took over and just juggled it all together. And it was really seamless in that sense. But for me, the biggest thing was that the girl that ended up leaving, she was a good friend of mine. You know, I loved her, I cared about her deeply and made quite an impact on me personally to just see her leave because I never would have. I thought she was, you know, the strongest mental athlete I had ever seen. Like, she was unbelievable to me. And so for that girl that my superhero to just sort of hang up her bathing suit and go home and.

You can imagine, you can just imagine the internal struggle that she had that she was. Wasn't sharing because she wouldn't have wanted to impact the group negatively. You can just imagine what she went through to try and come to that decision and take action on it.

I can only imagine. And I mean, gosh, she. Yeah, she must have been really hurting and I had no idea. And I think that was the biggest part for me too is that like, I wish I could have had helped her had I.

Your career. Find yourself in a similar position mentally that she was in, though, from what you know, about what she was going through. You mentioned, you know, at the beginning that there are some real lows. You had a, you know, 10 year career.

Yeah.

Of insane training. How about what was the toughest moments for you?

There's, there's definitely, there's definitely years where or like months even, that I. I questioned if I was doing the right thing, if I was at the pool for the right reasons. And, you know, leading up, even to. It's always. For me, it's when I'm leading up to the biggest competitions and when things get really tough physically that mentally, I start to also feel it. So it's a. It really goes hand in hand for me. And that's when I have to sort of dissociate the two and realize that my physical fatigue is impacting my men.

That is such a. That is such a pro attribute. That is the thing that really distinguishes professional, seasoned athletes from the amateurs. Because I, you know, I see. Have seen it over and over where the physical push, because I've had the athletes constantly going to that next level physically, and inevitably there's typically a mental breakdown that goes with that because they are so unaccustomed to the fatigue or the soreness or the whatever that comes with the physical exhaustion or advancement. And what you just described, being able to distinguish and separate the two and go, okay, my body is at its edge and my mind doesn't have to be at its edge. Right now I have strength and just such a depth and strength in my mind that I still have so much more to draw from, and I can do that. And that type of attribute, I think, comes from the experience and the confidence that comes from having been through something like that before. And that's exactly why coaches do training camps. They just push and push and push until people are breaking down in every possible way, way emotionally, mentally, physically, and. But once they get through it and they overcome it and they see the other side and they see how far they've come, their confidence and their understanding of what they're capable of is such a different thing than it was prior to that type of training camp.

Oh, absolutely. You said it. You, like, you're bang on with that. And I think that I, I'm lucky in the sense that I had to go through so many of those training camps where you literally don't think that you're gonna make it. Like, it's. It sounds crazy to say right now because I'm sitting in my car and I'm, you know, it's a beautiful day outside, and I just had a great training session, but I fully remember being in the pool. It's, you know, 1pm I still have five more hours to go, and I'm. I think that I'm not going to, like, I don't think that they're gonna see me at the end of the day, I, you know, I would just vanish. It would just be too much, and that would be it. Like, my body would just, nope, no more. And somehow every single time you make it.

Now, for.

For both of you being athletes who have been through so many training camps, you, as an athlete, you know how.

You would get that. I've seen this in a lot of athletes, how they get that kind of irritation at younger athletes who haven't been through as many camps.

And just, you know, you.

You.

You almost feel like the old. The old fart who's looking at the grandkid going, well, it was all uphill both ways to my school or. And we walked 10 miles. You know, like, did. Did you ever have that feeling where you just kind of looking down upon the other athletes because they hadn't been through that kind of camp?

Of course. I mean, you can't be a seasoned athlete and not think that at least once. You know, I think that it's just. It's natural to think that what you went through was way worse than what you're currently going through with a younger group. But that's their story, too, and that's something that I love realizing now. I see the younger athletes that I used to train with in my second quad that are still competing today, and I can just tell, like, they. They're there now. You know, they had to go through it with me back in the day, thinking that it wasn't hard enough. But, you know, they went through it, and it was hell for them, and it was really tough. And they. They're here now and they're still competing, and they're, you know, at the Pan Am Games, currently might be winning a gold medal in the next few days. Like, it's unreal. I love it. And it's just the big circle of. Of sports.

There we go.

I just saw the Lion King is life.

What? So you. Absolutely, you know, you're talking training camps and the toughness and the grit, but people don't really, I think, appreciate what kind of injuries can come from synchronized swimming. Because, you know, they're in the water, they're kind of. But there's a. There's a. A technicality to this sport and a tightness, a proximity of space in this sport that people may not be fully aware of. Describe some of the injuries or what.

Yeah, I just want to say, because it looks, you know, you guys are smiling on top of the water, Everything's perfectly aligned and beautiful, and I feel like it's a blender underwater. Of just like. Like.

Yeah, yeah.

Like keep your toenails short so you're not gouging somebody or what.

Oh, my God, we have a toenail police.

I was joking. That's a real thing.

Serious business here. Talk about. Oh, yeah, it's sort of twofold. I feel like the injuries that I've at least seen in, whether it's my career or around me. So you have the shocker, the impact injuries. So whether that's like contact, basically, we end up, you know, punching or kicking each other quite a bit. And I've seen, you know, I've myself, I've broken. I've have one of my foot. I broke four times. Just to give you an idea. Like, it just. It just kept breaking and it was just on impact with other people, you know, heels or knees or feet and. And so that's one of them. So you have like, the broken noses, the broken fingers, nothing too serious, but still they're there and they hurt when they happen. Nothing that would keep you from being able to train or compete, but still. And then there's the overuse injuries that we see quite a bit in our sport. So our hips end up getting quite a bit of damage. Shoulders can get damaged. Backs I've seen. So because we work in such a big range of motion as well, we're in the extreme range of motions with our legs and our arms and our backs at all times. And we go very quickly from one range to the next that. That ends up causing, you know, some damage, especially if you have some, like, weaker muscles in your core or your glutes or something, which we do.

Oh, plus, it's such a different environment because you're in the water. So unlike, say, a volleyball player where you're getting all kinds of absorbing contractions or eccentric contractions, you just don't have that in the water. It's this constant concentric thing. And without that, that absorbing or negative contraction, it would be really easy to get weak in certain spots because it's a constant concentric thing going on in the pool.

Yep. Yeah. Yeah, it's a. It's surprising how many athletes I've seen. Seen now that I'm, you know, doing a little bit more coaching and stuff that are extremely weak in muscles that are, in my opinion, so important, like the glute muscles are just not firing the same way they should be. The core muscles aren't firing the same way they should be. And then they wonder why their hips are all.

But there's so many hours in the water that that that's, you know, that's the specific adaptation that has happened to the training that they're enduring.

And then the other thing that I was like, I was thinking of those, the people who would have a broken, you know, you've had this broken foot. And unlike other sports where typically if somebody had a broken foot in volleyball or a sprained ankle in volleyball, they're not going back to practice that week or whatever, and they're, they're off, you know, for probably a few weeks or depending on the severity. But for you guys, you go right back to practice, same day or next day. And that, that anxiety over smacking that broken spot again, you know, oh, oh.

It'S so, it's real. The, is intense. Like, I think that's probably the worst part. It's not even the actual pain that you do or like, yeah, just grazing your foot and you want to murder them. Right. So I, I would just, I remember the first time I broke it, I thought, I guess after the first time, you sort of get used to that type of pain, and I feel like you can get through it a little bit easier. But that first time I broke it, I, I, they taped it up and I was, you know, I was back.

In that pool and I was terrified.

Like, I didn't want anyone close to me, but obviously with the nature of our sport, I had to be close to my teammates. So, yeah, it's one of those things that mentally, it's, it's tough. It really, like, you have to focus. You have to, you know, trust your.

Teammates, trust the process. So, yeah.

And yeah, you just gotta know that you're gonna get hit again and it's gonna hurt and you're gonna keep going.

Clearly sort of the thing physically tough and you have the mental stamina to endure the incredible training load and durations. Tell us a little bit about your mental toughness in competition where, you know, you're in a sport where there isn't a second half to make a comeback. You, you, you know, you're doing your routine, you have to nail it. What, what sort of tools did you add to your arsenal along the way? Or, you know, what, what were your tricks to being on in the biggest moments?

Yeah, I think, you know, for me, especially as I got older, the biggest thing was repetition. In practice, I wanted to sort of work out any possible kink that I could possibly foresee. Even if it never happened, happened in practice. I would prefer to have. You know, I remember training once where we would rip off our nose plugs to so we put nose plugs on to keep the water from rushing into our brain, basically. And then. And so. And so one of the days, we just practice doing the first half of our routine without a nose plug.

What would you do?

When would you put it back on? How would you figure that out so that no one would, you know, be able to see that in competition? Because you never know what can happen. So a lot of preparation goes into it, and I just. I think that's what I relied on. I would get to whatever competition and be like, I've done this at least 500 times, if not more. I've got this in the bag. Like, I know exactly how to handle everything that can happen. And we train, like, you know, we put weight belts on, we put clothing on. We put a lot of, like, extra just weight on our body. So that training is so hard, and we get to competition, it's like a treat. It feels.

And. And there's all the. There's all the costume and makeup and things like that, too. You know, that's a whole nother factor that unless you're training in that occasionally you. You know, there's going to be a. A sequin or a strap or something flying off at some point or another.

Can I just tell you one time, I will always remember German Open, 2009. I. I was a flyer back in the day, which means that I did the acrobatic work. When we throw somebody in the air, I was the one sort of doing the fancy flips. And so I had a fancy, you know, beautiful headpiece glued onto my head with bobby pins and all. What have you, to keep it there. But for whatever reason, I landed a little bit funny after my flip, and my whole headpiece just decided to stick right up like an Afro. Like, it was just huge right up there. And so the entire rest of the routine, I had, like, three. Three more minutes to go. My teammates are all trying to rip it. Oh, my gosh. Underwater. Because I look. I look ridiculous. Like, I just look completely insane. I mean, our sport already kind of looks a little ridiculous at points.

This was extra crazy.

But I just. I was looking at, like, a sore.

Because then as they try to pull it off, it's pulling.

That's what I'm picturing. It's getting worse and bigger.

Like.

Like a rat's nest.

Oh, yeah. It was just. It was a Gong show. It was just the worst. So stuff does happen. Even though we do, you know, rehearse in our suits and everything, it just. You never know. Like, stuff Just happens.

I mean, what about body image? I know we've spoken with different athletes who have been in gymnastics or diving or different female sports where this, there's this expectation on women to have a certain level look or body type or percentage of body fat. What's it been like in your sport in general or for you?

I've had, so I've had the opportunity to work with three basically head coaches between, you know, leading up to the 2008 Olympics, leading up to the 2012 and then 2016. They're all different coaches and every single one of them had a different view on how, you know, the, our bodies should look. And I think that the toughest one for me was definitely leading up to London. We were on a very strict sort of, I want to say it wasn't even diet, it was just we were, we were weighed every day before getting into the pool. We, we had to make weight and if we didn't, we weren't, we weren't practicing that day. We were off the team for that day. And then it was just kind of extra stress that we had to deal with. I mean we have a various aesthetic sport. We have to be eight people that somewhat look the same, somewhat move the same. And so one of our coaches ways to do that was to keep us all at the relatively same weight. So yeah, needless to say, like I have a, I have a love hate relationship with any body image stuff that sort of happens. I think it's, it's sad that it's necessary in our sport. But I also appreciate that if you want movement to look the same on everyone, you sort of have to have a very similar body.

What, what coat it doesn't, you don't have to name names or anything like that. But how, what method or what approach do you think handled the aesthetics of your sport best? So if there was a coach who had a best scenario approach, what do you think that was that handled this, this necessity in your sport the best?

It's hard to say really because one side of me completely agrees with the owner only aesthetic part and like just go for the look only. But then, you know, as I evolved as an athlete and I had a different coach who just sort of wanted us to be, look strong and look healthy and look, you know, powerful. I don't know that we saw the results that we wanted necessarily with that mindset. So the judges can't tell you that.

There'S, the judges would have had to match that same philosophy. If, you know, if the coach has a philosophy of Looking healthy and looking strong and maybe. And maybe more a little slightly different from each other. Not as. Yeah, yeah. As a group. The judges would have to have that same philosophy in order for that to have the results that you want, say, podium wise or ranking wise. Go ahead.

No, sorry. I was just saying. Which is crazy that that is a thing, but it's just. It is in our sports.

Speaking of results, you had some really impressive results in the 2011 World Championships. After that crazy, crazy training camp, and then in 2012 at the Olympics, it was fourth that the team finished.

Yeah, we finished in fourth. So obviously. So after the 2011 World Championships, we had our bronze medal, and we, you know, honestly worked so hard for it. We're so happy about it, and we're very, you know, looking forward to the Olympics and hoping for our podium again. But, yeah, so we trained for, like, a year, really aiming for a podium finish. So needless to say that that fourth place, as awesome of a result as it is.

A little bit.

A little bit. You know, just a little. Enough to, like, enough to keep me in the.

Yeah, well, there's two ways to go with it, you know, for some people, it's just demoralizing.

That's it, people.

It's the fuel, right, for the fire.

Fuel for the fire.

Yeah.

Yeah, yeah.

And that.

That led you to keep going for another quad?

It was part of it for sure. Like, I. I had such a close brush to the podium that I kind of wanted to have it again. Like, I wanted to see if it was possible. That's one of them. And then another one was just like, let's see how much. How better I can be. Like, how I can push myself.

When you were switched going. Looking forward to 2016 for Rio, you were, you know, asked to do duet instead of team. Coming off of that fourth place, obviously your motivation was a metal.

Did.

Did that align that request to switch you to duet from the team event? Did that align with you reaching your goals, or did you feel like you had to make a sacrifice in some way for that?

You know, I think that the podium thing is. It. It's more the feeling that you get when you're really close to something. Like you're so close to touching it. It's almost like you. I just wanted that feeling again. I didn't, to be honest. I don't know that I cared so much about having a medal around my neck at the end of all of it, more so than, like, looking back at my performance and being like, damn, that was awesome.

And is that. How. Is that how Rio was for you? Was it a damn.

Good question? I. It's hard. Rio was a tough time for me. I didn't feel super prepared leading up to the Games. And, I mean, it's tough because I. Obviously, I'm not in charge of my own training and everything that went into it, but I just. I. I think I was in my state of maybe slightly heightened stress or anxiety or nerves. I wanted to do more. That's sort of like what I. I go for generally. If I'm nervous or something about whether it's a project that I'm working on, I just do more of it. Cause I. I want to make sure that I'm, you know, covering all my bases. And so maybe I was just more nervous about the Rio Games, that I just felt like our volume in training wasn't high enough. And so I remember going to the Rio Games and being like, I feel like I haven't done enough. I don't feel prepared. I don't feel like.

Do you think your partner would have been able because she was and still.

Is significantly younger than you?

Do you think she would have had the capacity, though, to handle the kind of volume that you would handle? Because there's just such a different, sometimes physical resiliency when someone, based on age and 20 training history.

If anything, my resiliency would have been lesser than hers. Like, she is a firecracker, that kid. I mean, she's not a kid anymore. That amazing young woman is one of the most resilient athletes I've ever gotten to train with. Like, she. She's a powerhouse. She can handle everything and anything you throw at her. So I think that we both for more, in a sense. Yeah, I call her Jack or Jackie. So, yeah, I think Jack and I just sort of would have loved a little bit more. And, you know, we're both very. I like that feeling, like today at the end of the day, where my whole body is shaking from a good workout. Like, that's sort of what I was looking for leading up to Rio, and not. I didn't feel like I got that.

And is that something you think you.

Could have communicated to, whether it's coaching stuff, staff, or, you know, performance enhancement team, that would be setting up your periodization or your training plan? Is that something that you.

Yeah, we did. And I mean, we. We had a great relationship with our head coach at the time, and she. She was hearing us, I think, but was a little bit afraid to push us to that limit, I think maybe because of injuries Maybe because she wanted to. You know, we were the only two representing Canada for the first time in a long time. Like the team didn't qualify for the Rio Games. So I think that maybe she was trying to just make sure that we were healthy.

Yeah, it's a hard thing to push the limit, push the limits when you've got no backups. You know, it's.

It's your only. Exact, only entries.

Perspective.

Yeah.

It'd be catastrophic not to have representatives, you know, for the future, for, you know, for. You picture yourself seeing Synchro on TV and being hooked. It's not going to happen. Right. If you and your partner out and the team is not either. So somewhat understandable.

And even from. Yeah, even from a coaching and political standpoint, you know, that the coach of the program is getting some feedback or suggestions from the powers that be, you know, that fund and direct things, if. If you know what I mean. So. So it's interesting how that influence trickles down to what's happening in the trenches.

Oh, yeah. And, you know, that's one thing that I am so glad that I am not a head coach for is it's a tough job. You have to listen to so many different people. People. And so much like different advice that sort of comes in from people that don't necessarily even know your own sport. They just. They know sports in general, but they don't know your specific sport or the history of it. And they. They kind of like to think that they can help. And they. They do, but also sometimes, yeah, they don't.

It's interesting how. How so many of those dis. Decisions from high up affect things down below, but there's nothing you can really do about it.

Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And I feel like coaches are also kind of stuck in the middle, too. Like athletes get. Get a part of it. But so. So the coaches, it's not an easy thing to.

What has been your. You know, you've described a pretty illustrious career. It's been amazing. And you've reached these. These pinnacles of sport. What has been the biggest struggle, would you say, throughout this whole journey?

I think it's sort of two part for me. One of them was getting over me, like, putting myself down all the time. I needed to, you know, get over that and be not even just confident, but just like, stop being so hard on yourself.

Where did that come from?

That was one of them. And. Oh, I don't know. That's. I think I sort of started to get over it once I got paired with Jacqueline in Duet. Because she doesn't do that to herself really, ever. She, she works very hard and she's very demanding, but she's never herself.

Talking is demeaning.

Yeah. Mean to herself. Yeah, exactly. And I, Whereas I was ridiculous to myself. Like some of the self talk I used to have was just like, not okay. Like, I would never say that to another human being. Why should I say that to myself? Right. And so that was a big one for me. Another one was just getting over injuries. I think I've had accidents that just sort of happened and I, you know, I dislocated my shoulder and I honestly didn't know if I was ever going to regain mobility or strengthen it the same way. I. It's tough. Getting over injuries is tough. And I.

It's interesting how it's. It's both the mental and the physical that are the biggest struggles and yet both of them impact the other as well. The physical realm and the mental realm.

It's so similar to what you described about just learning to handle training volume that, you know, you. Until you go through it, you don't realize you can handle it. And same with an injury. You know, how am I going to come back from this? This feels so bad. I can't do anything. Will I ever be 100% again? It's again, that learned experience that just the veterans have that the young athletes don't.

Yeah. Yeah. And there's no other way to really get to that point unless you've sort of been there. And it's sad, but like, you just, you're going to get hurt eventually and you're going to learn to deal with it. You're either going to keep going or you're not. That's going to be the end of it.

What's next for you?

That's a really big question for me right now. I recently got into some coaching out here in Saskatoon, so I am now coaching some of the. The best athletes in the province that I. It's such a privilege to me to be around these young women. They are, you know, 15, 16 years old and they're competing on the national stage and I am loving every second of being around them. So I'm hoping I get to do a little bit more of that. And I also have, so I did a nutrition certification recently as well. So I'm hoping that I can maybe help more people out with that. That's amazing.

I'm grinning, grinning ear to ear too.

For, for just the fact that you're.

You know, lit up by coaching other athletes.

Hopefully they can listen to this podcast, but if they do, for young athletes, whether it's synchro or other, what would be your piece of advice that might be the nugget to. To share from your experience?

Just keep going, you know, don't quit because things happen. I. You know, I might have never made the Olympics if I didn't get cut from the team. Like, I think things happen for a reason. And if you just have that resiliency in you and you just keep going, you'll get to where you want to. It just might not happen in the timeline that you had envisioned for yourself.

That's an amazing. That's a great piece of advice for life as well. And quick, quick fire off of some little bits personally about you. What would you say is a favorite food right now?

Right. Right now? Barbecued pizza.

How do you like, like doing the pizza on the barbecue? That's how you're cooking it.

Oh, yum. Yeah. Yeah. So we make our dough and at home, and then we barbecue it, and it's unreal. Like, I'm a. I'm a. Okay. I have a sweet tooth for sure. Big fan of chocolate in general. But. But right now, barbecue pizza, especially after leg day.

Leg day is gonna make that even more. And what about favorite mo.

I. I can't really. I do like a lot of superhero stuff, so any of the Avengers stuff that is coming out or will be coming out, I'm excited about. But I just. I watch movies for entertainment. I don't know that I'm like.

I'm like that I could be just happy that I got to watch any movie. And I'm like, yep, this is awesome.

I get to watch this movie. Yeah.

What.

Yeah.

What about favorite music?

Happy to.

To jack you up for an or.

Leg day. Yeah.

What are you listening to on leg day?

Yeah, yeah.

Oh, for leg day. See, I'm very specific. There's days, like, for whether I'm doing cardio or leg day. It's very different playlist for. For leg day, I light a lot of, like, angry beats. I get, like. I get some good, you know, something with good bass and really just get me five fired up kind of angry a little bit. But I'm also, you know, I like. I like just general pop music or remixes that I.

Nice, nice Spotify plug there. That's awesome.

And.

And any other things that you want to share before we hop off with you?

No, other than just, you know, I hope this inspired any athlete that's going through, you know, their journey into wherever it is that they want to go. And if you guys want any more help or anything, never be afraid to reach out to another teammate, another athlete or a coach or someone because there's.

And lastly, love those, love those finishing words. Lastly though, don't want to forget you're a big supporter of CAN Fund.

Oh yeah. Big fan of Cannes Fund. So all the athletes that are listening to this podcast right now should go on the CAN Fund webpage. They do have an application form that you can apply for and hopefully get, you know, money that can go towards training or just maintaining a lifestyle that will help you.

Training support.

They all.

Every young athlete typically needs a bit of training support.

That's awesome. Oh, yeah, awesome.

Well, thank you, Corinne, so, so much. You are amazing. You're a rock star and we're so, so glad we could, we could have this time with you.

Thank you very much. All right.

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