EP56 Cassie Hawrysh - Skeleton

This is episode 56 of the Empowered Athlete podcast. Are you 6, 5, 2, 25 and male? Or maybe 5, 4, 1, 10 and female? Are you a swimmer, runner, gymnast or hockey player? Have you had three knee surgeries like me or a shoulder that tends to get sore? We all have different bodies and it makes sense that we require specific training and adjustment from best results. Are you self motivated, ready for consistency, and want to follow a training plan customized for your needs? Maybe you are ready to be coached.

Being trained typically means you rely on someone to take you through each workout. Being coached means you are ready to do it on your own, but want the guidance from an expert to efficiently get to your best results while staying accountable. If you're ready to be coached, then contact us for an assessment in person or online and we will make a customized training program for you to get to your goals.

Skeleton, not a sport for the faint of heart. You know, throw yourself headfirst down a frozen icy track, going as fast as possible in crazy curves at speeds higher than you drive your car on the highway. Well, today's guest, Cassie Hawersch, is an expert at skeleton and represented Canada around the world on frozen tracks. But her story isn't all roses. She saw the dark side of amateur sport in Canada and had an incredibly, incredibly hard journey in trying to make it to the Olympic Games and represent Canada where she wanted to. Cassie's story is one you can learn from, not only from the experience he had, but the way that she handled it from a mental standpoint and continues to deal with it. Today, we are thrilled to have Cassie Harish join us on the Empowered Athlete Podcast.

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Hey, everyone. Welcome back to the Empowered Athlete Podcast and we are pleased, we're proud, we're pumped to welcome Cassie Hawish to the show. Cassie, thank you for making time again to join us for a conversation about your incredible career in skeleton and sport and life. And welcome.

Thank you. I am honored to be on this podcast.

Paul, we are so excited to have you. I was trying to think of another P word besides pleased, proud, or pumped, but I couldn't think of another appropriate P word.

The illiteration. Yeah, you're percolating all right.

I am with pure energy over here.

So I'm not perturbed at all.

I'm positive about this.

It's gonna Pop.

Okay, we're good, we're good. Focus team.

Come on, we can do this. So you are a decorated athlete in all sorts of ways, and you are a skeleton athlete. Can you tell our audience a little bit about your sport before we go into kind of how you got there, which is a weird. A weird journey, I guess. But what. For anyone who doesn't understand or know what skeleton is, can you describe it?

I can do my best. So skeleton visually is the winter sport on a bobsleigh, luge, skeleton track. So if anyone's ever seen one of those same track for skeleton racers, they are on their stomach head first. So that's usually the number one thing that people make people's eyes pop to add another P to this. And honestly, it always blows my mind how they're convinced that I'm crazy and maybe they're right. But yeah, so it's the run beside the sled, jump on it and go down the side of a mountain, head first. Sport skeleton racing?

Well, we'd rather have a little crazy than boring and.

Absolutely.

But this is the kind of thing, if anybody's done their, you know, time tobogganing as a kid, you know, you start sitting on your butt and then you start going on your back and maybe brave and go on your knees and. But as a kid, you know, the thrill of going on your stomach and really kind of jetting down like a bullet. But, you know, that's not something that people suddenly get onto a track with. So what were your starting sports? Were they, you know, were they winter sports? What was the lead in to? You obviously weren't always a skeleton athlete because it's not like kids start with that. So how did this craziness happen?

Well, I think that if we were living in Europe, you might not necessarily say that, but yeah, I'm from Brandon, Manitoba, so I definitely did not start as a skeleton athlete. You know, 40,000 people in my city and options throughout my younger years and even into high school were pretty limited in the good way though, you know, all the right sports. So I did a lot of gymnastics as a little kid and then kind of did the whole gamut of try everything. My parents were super gracious in appeasing me if I wanted to try a new sport and never really pushing me too dramatically hard, but at the same time making sure that I knew whether I wanted to continue in something or not. And then by the time I got into high school, I was playing basketball and volleyball. Those were the two base sports at my high school. And I really gravitated towards volleyball and by the time I figured out that I could play it pretty much all year round, that's exactly what I did. So that was my soiree into high performance sports way, way before I found skeleton.

And most people wouldn't think that volleyball would be the kind of thing that would lead into skeleton, but you clearly had a love for intensity, you had a love for sport and physicality. What was it that you loved about volleyball and where did that take you?

You know, looking backwards, I think it's easier for me to connect the dots now. So this answer would have never been the same. But I look at the kind of player that I was on the court for people that have never met me. I'm only 5 7, so I certainly wasn't by far the tallest person out there. But I was fast and I was scrappy and I didn't want anything to get away from my side of the court. So that kind of speed and power background really came naturally to some extent. And through that, when I did later in life transition into another sport, um, I really did believe that I had all the, all the, the fine tuned aspects of, of that running and jumping and I'm sure that in some ways that did ultimately transfer into skeleton eventually. But I couldn't have imagined how my path was going to take me there, that's for sure.

And it was the University of Windsor for volleyball. And then you transitioned into the track world.

Yeah, so it was, it was me getting cut when I moved schools. And it wasn't the only heartbreak that happened at the time. So I was looking for a school when I was in grade 11 and grade 12 that could take that volleyball career to that next university level. But I also knew that I really wanted to be in the journalism and communication fields. Those are the only things that I knew were the boxes that I needed to check. At my ripe old age of 18, I had it figured out. I knew what I wanted to do and so I did some traveling through the states and did the visits and found out here's some scholarship money here last year. And the dollar was honestly as good as it is right now back then. So I was faced with a bit of an issue because I couldn't go to the school necessarily that had the best volleyball team or I could and then they wouldn't have the program. So ultimately I looked to the University of Windsor as a walk on because at the time social media was just starting to kind of rear its head and I was able to look at the Roster online. And I literally calculated the average height of all the Canadian universities. And Windsor at the time had the lowest average height. So I figured, well, that they had a communication program. So that was my justification for turning down scholarship money to roll the dice and go to Windsor. And, you know, and Marilyn Douglas at the time was the head coach, was gracious enough to not make, you know, the face of like, what do you think you're doing here? When I showed up. So she let me try out and thankfully I did, I did make the team.

Isn't that, you know, one of those bizarre scenarios where you put yourself in a situation where you might not be wanted and yet, you know, you could have gone other places where you would have been welcome?

I'm a glutton.

But at the same time, no, you could say it's a glutton for punishment or you can say that it's really committed to what you see as your future vision. So if you see yourself in that communications and journalism role and you don't want to waste that time at school in a different program, then you know, it seems like the logical choice and that you're going to grit through it. But what was the, what was the outcome with that?

Yeah, so the very. I was playing a little bit. I made the team, as I said, and things were going pretty well. There were a number of veteran players on the team. So I was still trying to figure out my place on the team. And I don't think I ever really felt fully welcomed in the way of us, of any first year cadet really feel. But what really solidified my, my weariness was at Christmas time my dad would. He had a heart attack. And I didn't actually know he had the heart attack until we got back from a tournament because my mom was, quote, you know, didn't want to bother me, which is still to this day, you know, one of those, like, I didn't want to let you know right away and I got back to my room and I got a phone call and it was her. And I just rightfully so. I was devastated. He was okay and he was out of surgery by the time I found out. But it really once again reshuffled my priorities. I am an only child. And the number one thing, you know, probably along the same lines as volleyball and journalism, was that I wanted to leave Brandon. I wanted to get away from that smaller city and I wanted to just branch out and explore the world. And then suddenly it felt like I was across the world when I really was only a province away and so then that made me reconsider what was really important to me and maybe what that needed to look like moving forward. So I did finish, obviously, the rest of the season and was able to see him at Christmas time, and he did make a full recovery and everything's good to this day. But when I returned for my second year, things didn't not feel the same, and tensions were high and my emotions were pretty. Pretty ingrained in how I wasn't feeling accepted and wasn't sure where I wanted to be. And as such, I did decide to switch schools, which meant that I didn't use that year of eligibility. So I sat out.

Do you think you created that because. Because you were. You were upset about the scenario, or do you think that, you know, you genuinely weren't quite fitting in or.

I think with the team, I felt I was fitting in. I don't really know. It's hard to. It feels like a lifetime ago. And I've at times tried to recall, you know, the actual events around that, but I was so emotionally charged with missing my family, I think, and the newness of everything, too, that even when I try to remember all the things that happened, like, if you've ever sat down and been like, oh, yeah, you know, you meet some people from back then, which has oddly happened now, like, 15, 20 years later, which is crazy. I'm seeing some of these people that I haven't seen since 2002, and they're telling me stories, and I don't even remember those stories because so much stuff happened at the same time. So I know that certainly we are. I believe that we're like the masters of our own destiny, as you can see, with the things that I choose to do. But I think I certainly had a part in why it happened the way it happened, exactly how it happened. It was a little bit out of my control, but I knew what I wanted, whether or not I was willing to admit it. And being closer to home was definitely always going to happen. I think the way that it amassed itself felt like a punishment, but it was probably the right thing.

So you didn't head back to Brandon. You headed where?

Yeah, I ended up going to the University of Regina in Saskatchewan. To my dad's dismay. He was like, don't go to Saskatchewan. I don't know why Manitoba and Saskatchewan like to pretend like we don't like each other, but we're the same. And at the time, I think, again, it was because I was looking for another team that I felt like I could make and it was definitely, you know, looking at the different teams that those universities have, it's very backwards. The track team in Windsor is definitely the powerhouse and the volleyball team is the powerhouse in Regina. And I was doing the flip flop of those things. So when I got there, I felt very welcomed and I played with the spring league that was going on while in my year off. And so the team did accept me. And I felt very much like, you know, this is it, this is what I'm supposed to be doing. Going to apply to the journalism school. And because the school is a different program then, it's a more structured, specific program that you have to get accepted into. And they only take 26 people a year. I had to not only spend that year off from sport, I also had to go back and do a bunch of first year classes and as well as work for the paper and build a portfolio to submit to the school of journalism while I was doing all this. So it did feel like I was going in the absolute right direction at.

The time, just ticking all the boxes. What, what drew you to track?

Yeah. So in June of the, that same year that I'd arrived, I had a. The official tryout for the Cougars team in women's volleyball. And at the time, I'd already been coaching with some of them. And as I said, I was playing, playing in the spring league, coaching in the spring league, and I didn't really think I was gonna ever get cut. It was so beyond my view. But when I got sat down at the final day of camp with all the coaches, like, just feeling pretty relaxed, to be honest, I think I was like, slouching in the chair, just feeling cool. And they just. The head coach just looked at me and said, cassie, look, we were gonna keep you, but we changed our minds. And I just looked at her and I looked at the assistant coaches who, most of them were looking at the ground, and I just didn't. I was like, what? And she's like, well, do you have any questions? I'm like, I don't understand. And she's like, well, you know, it's just in the end, ultimately we went another way. And I'm like, okay. And I don't think it was much more than that. All I remember is that I went outside and my mom and dad were out there because they were there to pick me up. And I just got in the truck and just lost my marbles and started crying. And that was how that ended. I was like, God, screwing. My life is over.

So all those people who have been cut because there's people listening who have been cut and who have been, who have made the higher levels. And there's people who are listening who are coaches as well. What would you have coaches do or not do in those situations of cutting an athlete? Like what, what could be, you know, is there a review system ahead of time so the athlete has a sniff that they might be cut? Is there a, is there a way of wording it that can make it any better? Is it, is it the rip, the band aid? Like what?

Yeah.

So many assets. Like what?

If I answer this question, we're making a million dollars and every coach is about to do as I say. I honestly don't know because I've now been in the position of a coach as well. And even giving bad news that isn't about a team is difficult. So, you know, my heart goes out to the coaching staff of my past that have had to cut me because I'm certainly not, I don't hide it well if I'm upset about something. So I've never like lashed out at a coach, but I certainly have never made it easy. But you know, it's, that's the human being nature that is so difficult, that human element of sport. I don't know if there's a perfect.

Way, but yeah, I think personally I'd want some concrete facts or evidence. The worst thing, the worst thing that I could be told is, you know, we've just felt that we should go this direction.

Yeah. You know, I feel like if it's.

Not constructive, like, you know, you were against person X, Y and Z and we felt that you were weak in reception compared to X, your attacking wasn't as good as Y and you're blocking whatever it is, at least it's something that you can take away and work on 100%.

And I.

If you're given this, if you're giving a, if you're given a feeling, oh my. Good luck with that.

Yeah. And I'm a very feeling based person and if I don't have concrete evidence to support why I'm feeling that way, I get really spinny. So I was just thinking as you said that Paul, like it's like a breakup. Like if you get broken up with and you don't know why, like, welcome to hell. Because you're just sitting there like, what happened? I thought everything was fine.

Yeah, I think it's the not knowing that there was anything wrong. But aside from that, even, even the, the little line of we were going to keep you but Right, guys?

Like, what did I do? What happened?

Did I bring the wrong lunch today? And, you know, it smelled like tuna. And you decided not to, like, what?

Yeah, and I think, right. And that's the thing. I was 20, 21 at the time. Like, I mean, I wasn't even emotionally stable. I've read now at this point that your brain's not even developed until you're 28. So here I am, like, undeveloped brain, trying to process. But either way, that's hard for anyone. And so to your question about, like, how the heck did you get into track? So through all that, I. After I wiped my tears and realized that I was still waiting to see whether I got into the journalism school, I had to come to terms with the fact that I couldn't just leave the school unless I wanted to start again for my third year of university, go back to first year. Now, this is really putting a backwards, you know, spin on my life as I know it. So I. I said, my parents were like, well, what are you gonna do? You could just go back to school. And I. I remember saying, like, I don't understand what everyone does at university if they don't play sports. Like, what do you do the rest of the time? Because there certainly isn't 24 hours of class.

No, they drink their faces off.

Oh, I know. Like, as I said, you know, I'd lived in Windsor at that point, and now I was living in Regina. So I'd seen it, and I'm certainly participated in some aspects of it, but I. I couldn't imagine my life without sport. And I feel like a lot of, you know, a lot of athletes understand that. And as such, I decided that to my point before, that I could run and jump, right? I was convinced. How hard could it be to join the track team?

How hard could it be?

Right? And that was totally my mentality. And, you know, naive as it was, it certainly gave me some leverage to just call the coach up and just say, here's who I am. Here's what I want to do. And the head coach at the time was Carla Nichols, who now coaches with Team Canada and has for a number of years. And she just said, who is this? And I'm like, don't worry about it, but can I come try out? And she's like, of course. Because as many people know, university track teams are always looking for athletic individuals now, because it's certainly nice to have a lot of people on the track team who might be able to get you points. And as such, I'm Sure. She was keen to see whether or not I could even, like, lift my feet off the ground. We were all pleasantly surprised when I was somewhat athletic duringouts. Yeah.

Before trying out, did you have an inkling or an idea in your mind of what you wanted to be doing on the track? Because, I mean, there's a lot of options.

I was convinced I would do like one or two events as a kid, but.

What?

Yeah. So maybe long and high jump maybe, and then maybe like us sprint of some sort. But I never imagined that I was going to be, like, actually sprinting because I knew even back then that I was never the fastest off, like, out of the gates. So I didn't really know enough about of track to really get a grasp. But I did know that I liked hurdles. So there was these little inklings of things that I might be okay at with a little bit of help as far as I was concerned. So when I finished the tryout and she pulled me aside and said, okay, Cassie, like, you're definitely gonna stay on the team. And I'm like, great, great. Like, because they have different track groups within the groups, right? So different coaching groups that. That focus. And the girls that I had been meeting that were already on the team were like, so good in the sprints group and the multi events group. She's. That was her group, Carla's group. And so she said, yeah, you're gonna be in my group. You're gonna train with. With Nikki and with Essie and these girls that I just met that I thought were like, incredible athletes. And I was like, great. What am I doing? Like, what, one event? And she's like, no. She starts laughing. I'm like, what are you laughing about? She's like, you're not gonna do one event, Cassie. You're gonna do seven. What? Like, seven what? Like, what do you mean, seven events? So then I quickly had a crash course, pun intended, on what the heptathlon was and how she felt like, you know, the indoor pentathlon for indoor track and then the outdoor heptathlon. When I was gonna do outdoor track, I was convinced she was nuts. There was no way I was gonna learn all seven disciplines. Like, when these other athletes have been running since they were six, it's like the.

The Jack of all trades, the master of none, and you gotta get somewhat proficient at a few things, and away you go.

Yeah, she. She was like. She was easily the catalyst to the rest of my athletic career by making that decision for me. But I was in pain for so many Months, because it was just so hard. I had to work so much harder than everyone to catch up even a little bit. Like, I spent the whole first year of my track career just looking at everyone's butt because there was no way I could catch anyone ever. And it's so humbling to come from this level of perception of your own athletic ability to realize that no matter how hard you're training, no matter how focused you thought you were, these people were just naturally either better than you or just had technique that you weren't grasping still.

Or they just had more training years than you did. Sure. You know, you.

I suppose that's a thing. Yeah, it was, it was. And at the time, I had to wrap my head around the idea of being comfortable being uncomfortable. But you know, to my, to my life story at that point, like, I'd already been so sad about other things that I think I just kind of put the blinders on and just said, like, fuck it, like, we're doing this, let's just do it. And thankfully, I got into the school of journalism and was ultimately the only full time athlete in the entire program, because it was pretty nuts to try to do that program and be a full time track and field athlete. But I did it, so why not?

So few people are able to balance that. I mean, there's a lot of university athletes who go through their four years but don't finish a degree because they've been a university athlete. They might extend their program or they might have stayed in a non specialized program because there's big difference between doing a Bachelor of Arts and doing a journalism program. So, you know, what, what kept you in it? Because for, for what you wanted, which was journalism and communications, the easy choice would have been, okay, if this is so hard and my time is spread so thin and it's hurting so much, the easy choice would be to step away from track. So what, what was the thing? Was it being addicted to seeing the reward or being fulfilled or, you know, were you just a sucker for pain? Like, what was the. What kept you at that? Because most people, I think, would have, would have stepped away, especially when they're not, you know, top athlete in their realm. You know, that's one thing that keeps you in it. But when you're struggling and you're behind some other athletes, then what kept you going?

Yeah, as you're answering that question, I'm thinking it's the people. I had some really incredible people that believed in me, both in the journalism program and in track. And those people Were never hesitant to tell me that they believed in me, which helped me believe in the things that I was thinking were possible. And that alone undoubtedly drove me through everything. Because looking back, I don't remember it being as hard as it certainly was because I just always thought I could. And the people standing next to me were saying the same thing.

Are you still close to those people?

Yes. Yeah.

Because the way you described the people you're around at Windsor, you only just started to bump into them again. Was reading between the lines. That doesn't seem like you're very close with anyone there, whereas the way you're describing this, I imagine you would be.

Yeah, I think it had a lot to do with, like, how quickly I was in Windsor too. There are people that, and I've always followed their journeys and I think social media made that a lot easier. But there are definitely a lot less people in Windsor and the area even now that I'm, I'm still in contact with some of them. And those people were very similar to the people that I'm now talking about that were in Regina. People that would continue to stay like, as a constant threat in my life of belief and of, like, love.

So we need to know now, after you've found a home and some good people here and track, how did you end up on the skeleton track?

So thankfully I did get some of that success that the people around me believed that I could, and I was, even when I questioned it. And as such, I was able to be invited to some summer camps with some really incredible athletes training alongside people like Jessica Zelinka when I was a heptathlon, a heptathlete as well. And like, that's unbelievable. I remember the first summer that happened. I just like, oh, no, here we go again. Like, this girl's just crushing me in warm ups even. I'm just like, okay. But because of that, I was able to meet some other athletes and then some other coaching staff. So when 2009 rolled around and I was a couple years out of school, I was working full time as a journalist and running outdoor track only. I decided I really wanted to move to Calgary. There are a number of things that drove that decision. And ultimately I didn't have a plan when I was going because it was kind of like a last minute, like, I got to get out of here. It's not. I looked around at my life and honestly didn't want to be there. And as such, the people that I knew in Calgary, once I got there, reached out to me right away. And said, hey, who are you training with? We want you to come train with us. And as it turned out, those people were skeleton athletes.

Cool.

Yeah.

But, you know, it's all. This is the thing you hear from, I've heard most of my life is it's all about who you know. And I always kind of took that with a grain of salt until you have a few experiences and you understand when you trace certain major events backward, you understand that it was because of knowing this person or because of knowing that person or a conversation with that person. And all of a sudden this big pivotal moment happens in your life and ultimately, you know, you. You wouldn't have been exposed to skeleton otherwise.

No, absolutely not. It wasn't even on my radar. Like, I knew some people doing bobsleigh and I'd heard of skeleton, but you have to remember, like, do the math. At this point, I'm 25, I move to Calgary to just start again. And, you know, the coach that reached out to me was Michael Steen. And he had been coaching at. In Calgary for like, track and for the club team there, and then was helping with the women's bobsleigh through the Torino Olympics and then was now helping some skeleton athletes go towards the 2010 Games in Vancouver. He just said, well, if you're here, like, why don't you come run some track with us? Because in the summer, skeleton doesn't slide. They just do a lot of pushing in the ice house. But otherwise it's just weights and track, which is just like what I was doing anyways. So as far as I was concerned, I was just finding another group to run with. I didn't have my sight set on anything else.

And you're running with another group. But. Okay. When you have another group to run with, though, what was the. What was the.

Why?

Why? You know what I mean? Because it's like, okay, this is something I'm familiar with. I'm kind of. It's hard, but I love that form of hard. So I'm going to keep doing that form of hard. But there's not the same kind of end goal as there was perhaps in Regina, you know, whether it's qualifying for nationals or whether it's, you know, whatever it happens to be. You're in Calgary now, so people want you to run with them. Is it just because being with those people is what made you feel the best? Is it because there was an end goal? Like, did you have skeleton or something like that on your radar or was this.

Yeah, so I think it like that Sense of community has always been such an important part of everywhere I've been and a part of who I am. So I was definitely looking and was happy to have something to go to right away when I got there. But at the same time, I had actually just gotten off Olympic trials for I at the time had transitioned out of the heptathlon and into 400 meter hurdles. So I was only doing one event at the time for that last two years of 2007 to 2009. Kind of finally figured out, because I was a jack of all trades and a master of none, that the two events that I was quite proficient at the excels at anyhow was. Was the 800 and the hurdles. So I was able to combine them into the single worst race in history.

I was gonna say good times.

Yeah. So if you've ever seen photos of me, then it was like the most lean I've ever been. And it was mostly because I was just so tired. But yeah, because it was just such a different body type. But yeah, so that was. I was still technically in my mind training for that event. Like I was gonna continue running outdoors. I was looking for. For a new group and this was a nice transitional piece, but I was in talks with other coaching staff in the area, I. E. Like Les Gromantic, who was training just Zelinka there, that maybe I could run with them. And Steen is somebody that used to train with less. So these are all these people that all, as far as I was concerned, were connected and it was just an easy step for me to go that way. What I didn't know was that, you know, when they went to the Ice House to go push a skeleton sled, they were going to invite me and say like, hey, maybe. Maybe you want to try this? And I also didn't know that I'd say yes.

Wow.

And do you know what they were seeing? Because you just described yourself as extremely lean as an 800 meter runner. But how far is the push in skeleton?

It doesn't fit 20 meters. No, it doesn't. Yeah, it's a full 50. It's about 50. So it's about. But you don't run the whole 50, so you're really only doing about 16 strides. Like Max.

Yeah, yeah. So it's a complete power sprint, power push. What would they see?

I feel like I'd have to give you a shot and say, like, what did you see? Because, yeah, here's the thing. Like, I was never known for my push. I have moments of absolute sheer brilliance in My eight years of skeleton career where I literally had like a push record at one point where I defied odds of all kinds of random shit. But it was never something that I just stepped up to the block, grabbed the sled and was like, oh, yeah, there we go. Like, I had to work at the push more than I had to work at anything else. Um, so I don't really know what Steen saw at the time. But I think now when people ask me, like, what kind of people do you look for? Because body type aside, if you lined up all the women in skeleton, like from around the world, there is no single body type. There's actually a lot of variance. You got like 70 kilo girls. And at my, like best I was, you know, I was 59 kilos. So that is quite a difference. Like when you think about how much bigger they must be. But you're, you have. And then, but you have the element of equipment. And the push is important, but you also have the element of the drive. And as it turned out, my ability to really focus in quickly and process the information of driving a sled came very naturally, which was something that I could have never predicted. But either, you know, either. Mystein knew that when he met me because he'd known me for a few years. So maybe he knew something about being. Because he was around a lot of like bobsleigh pilots and skeleton pilots. So maybe there was something in our personalities that was similar, but analytical people that, that definitely have a little bit of an edge in terms of a little bit of crazy.

I suppose I was just gonna say that you gotta have a little crazy. That's what I was just thinking. You gotta have the grit and you gotta have a little bit of crazy because you gotta be able to handle the.

You gotta be on the limit.

Yeah, you gotta be on the limit to win.

That comes with that sport.

So I can't speak for him, but maybe that's what he saw because, you know, we did know each other for a number of years. So it wasn't like he just was like, oh, hey, like I met you once. So there was that level of, of friendship where he could say, like, here's the deal. So he never told me that, but I certainly fit right in for whatever reason.

What year was that?

2009. Yeah.

So first run down the track, what was it like?

So with a skeleton school, it's a three day situation at almost any track that offers it. Sometimes it's four, it depends. But the first day you get like a very, very brief Understanding of what to do. And you go from a lower start and then the next day they let you go from higher. And then from the third day, if you come back, they literally walk you off the top. So you don't get to push the sled and you don't jump on because they don't want anything happening. But they hold your feet and they let you go into corner one. So this story has always just made me laugh. So you have these volunteers that are helping people get off from the top. So I'm watching and this is. You have to remember, this is like right before the Olympic games. So there's a buzz about skeleton again, as there is every kind of four years, either right before or right after. So I have a lot of people in my school. There's probably 25 people in this school, which is pretty big for Calgary. And the average age was probably 17. So I'm 25 years old, which by no means is old, but you certainly feel like you're in a. You're the old girl. That's right. So. And I shouldn't be scared because I'm an adult. Well, I was like, I was totally shitting my pants. But at the same time, I'd spent a number of months to then with these people that were going to go to the Olympics likely. And so I have a bit of a chip on my shoulder. Like I want to be good at this. So like, no big deal, right? Like, just brush off your shoulder. So I lay on the sled to get pushed off from the top. And like, they just walk you. They don't run or anything. And the guy that was holding me was. Was an older man who has a very thick accent. And you have these like really shitty helmets. They do protect enough. But honestly, it's like old skydiving helmets that probably should never be worn in the track. And old sleds that are very steel so that no matter what happens, like, you'll never gonna wreck it. Because skeleton sleds, for purposes of this story, like, they're like $10,000. So you're not gonna put a brand new athlete on a $10,000 sled, right? You're gonna put them on the ones from like literally the 88 games that have like massive bumpers and just don't go straight, but they go. So that's all that matters.

Handle a dent or two.

Yeah, yeah. They're covered in dents and they rattle. So not only do I not know necessarily if I'm going to remember where I'm going because you're supposed to be counting corners just for the sheer fact that there's a couple corners. You really need to do something in. You need to try to remember what you're doing. But ultimately you're going to get down safely because it's not a track that like lets you build speed when you're not doing things right. So that's like how they kind of just justify it for people going from the top. So the sentence for types of tracks like Calgary is like, easy to get down but hard to get down fast. So it's kind of like you literally could put a sack of potatoes on a skeleton sled and it will get down to the bottom so we can send people off the top. Sign your waiver, get on. So here I am like 25 years old, it's freezing cold. All of our sessions were like 10 o' clock at night in Calgary in the middle of winter. And I'm getting walked off the top and so I lay down and you got your like, you know, you're wearing like ski pants and stuff because you're certainly not wearing a speed suit, so you don't really fit in the sled. And you bend your knees like, so you're laying on your stomach, right? Your hands are beside you and you're like told like, do not get your hand. Like, don't put your hands out in front of you. Don't do anything stupid. Just like stay in position that you've been taught. Bend your knees up at a 90 so that the person behind you can walk you out. And then when he lets go of you, point your toes. Like put your knees back down and then just point your toes like an arrow, right? Like be straight. So we. I get on the sled, I'm getting pushed. It's like we're walking super slow because he's wearing like crampons like you would on if it was an icy saddle. And so all you can hear is the like. And I'm like, oh God. And the sled's like. But it's making a really weird noise now. Remember, I've never actually slid, so there's no way that I should know what anything sounds like. But something was wrong. Like I knew that it was making more noise than it should have. Now this should have probably let me know that this was not for me. And I should have like got off and just been like, peace. Like I don't want to be here anymore. But instead I like did the thing you're not supposed to do and I stuck my hands out in front of me. And I tried to talk, to say, like, hey, I think something's wrong. But when I moved and, like, yelled back, he got startled, he fell, and then I started going, because now he's let me go, and it's obviously on a decline. So instead of letting myself go into the corner, I literally, like, kind of flip around and, like, somehow skid the sled and, like, stop myself. And then when we. The coaching staff, like, comes over, that was helping. And everybody grabs the sled and they look. And the sled had completely flattened. So which means that, like, the metal tubes underneath, which we call runners, had had compressed entirely because the bolts at the top had unwound themselves, which means that I would have had absolutely no control in the track because the sled wasn't even set up. So thankfully, I apparently realized that, like, unbeknownst to my actual reality, that. And before I could say, like, I'm good. No, thanks, this is like a sign from sliding Jesus that I shouldn't go, they gave me another sled, put me back on, and basically just like, shoved me off. And I didn't have any.

It's a lawsuit. Yeah. And the big news story and lawsuit that would have been incurring had you. Had you allowed it to sink in.

So I go, right, I go. And all I remember is that I rem that I knew where I was when I got to corner eight, which is, like, the part of the track that everyone flips in. And then when you go into Kreisl, which is this 270 degree circle, which Kreisl is circle in German, I just remember my head, like, pinned to the ground, all the air getting, like, shoved out of my body and trying to not have, like, a panic attack. And then the next thing I knew, I just crossed the finish line, and my adrenaline was absolutely, like, blazing through me. And I managed to stop the sled because for anyone that doesn't know, we don't have brakes on a skeleton sled, so you have to push your feet into the ice. And when you're a new sled, like, sliding athlete, you don't really know what you're doing. You're just trying to remember, like, don't hit the short walls. Don't hit your elbows on the, like, ice steps, cement. And I stopped and I got out and I put the truck on, put the sled on the truck and was like, let's go again. So would you call.

Would you call yourself an adrenaline junkie now?

I would, yeah, for sure. Because there's it's tough to find that kind of that high again now, you know, so I've done, I've done like bungee jumping. And those are the kinds of things that when you do them, that first time is the only time you're ever gonna feel like that. So I'm sure there's some, you know, drug addicts might tell you the same, but either way that you're always searching for that, but at the same time you're able to get it. It's a repeatable feeling in skeleton, especially when you start getting good at skeleton because the better you get, the faster you go. So that's where the caveat of like being able to chase that and the.

Existence excitement of working towards that, calculating it, achieving it or not achieving it, and then wanting it again.

100%. Yeah. So I was, I was hooked. And then that year was the Olympics. So I was able to go with these, like, new people that I met to go watch these other athletes that I had also met that year compete in Whistler. And I was so green, like totally doe eyed, had no idea what I watched.

2000, 2010 Olympics.

Yeah. 2010, yeah. So that's when John Montgomery would win the men's skeleton. And I actually happened to be at the finish line in front of his parents and his, and his family when he won. Like when he found out that he won because he actually went before the guy that was in first, who was Martin Stukers from Latvia, and he crossed the finish line and John ended up winning by the very small margin. And yeah, just like the sheer patriotic love that exuded from all of Canada in that moment was like blasting from behind me. And I couldn't, I was like, and John's from Manitoba and we have the same birthday and all these random things that I was like, okay, well, whether or not that's a sign, like, I don't know. But I'm going to do it. I'm going to do it. Let's do it. Why not? Why not me?

And being that close to that kind of experience really makes a person look around and go, holy cow, I want that. This is the pinnacle of existence. How can you not milk everything out of life with this kind of experience?

Like everyone always says, I hear this all the time. Like, I grew up wanting to be an Olympian. I didn't. And it's not like, no disrespect to Olympians, it's unreal. But that wasn't something that was on my, my like, sporting radar. I wanted to play volleyball Until I couldn't. Like, if my knees gave out, I wanted to. Like, I imagined playing beach in Europe or all these things, but when that fell through, I was kind of like, oh, well, I don't know. Like, I'll do track for a bit. But I never had any disillusions about track and field. I was never going to make the Olympic team. And that's not to say that, you know, I wasn't athletic enough to some degree, but it's just not. It wasn't in the cards for me. I was never. I never found a sport that fit me the way that skeleton did ultimately to allow me to believe in myself to that level of sporting.

So now that you stepped into that sport and you knew what you wanted, then, it was this really crazy journey that you probably could never have predicted, because all of that work and all of that effort, what did that lead to? So from 2010 onward, you would have been training through that whole quad. What did that look like for you?

Yeah, so my goal when I started was 2018, because you're looking at the trajectories of people's abilities. Making an Olympics in four years is very rare, especially in a sport where you're by yourself. And so, like, you don't have. It's not like bobsleigh. You don't have someone pushing you. And never mind with that. Those are the brakemen that make it, usually because they're able to be super powerful. Right. They don't have to worry so much about driving. They just have to be with a really good driver. So that's a whole other game. But for me, it was.

Sounds like. Sounds like, you know, a brakeman.

I know. I know a couple, that's for sure. But I definitely watched one of them, you know, like, be the most amazing literal Olympian in the world in a very short period of time. And that kind of imagination, for me, at the time, like, I didn't see that ever happening. For myself, I was like, okay, provincially, I gave myself. And I said this to the provincial team. I give myself four years to make the national team, because to me, I looked around at these people, and they'd been working for, like, eight years plus to get to the Olympics. Like, why would I walk in and say, oh, I'll do this, like, right away? So I wanted to be realistic, but I also wanted to be wary of continuing in a sport that was expensive and probably going to take up most of my life. I was very aware of it at the time when I started, and it.

Certainly did which meant putting your first love on hold, which was journalism and communications. Yeah.

And I was able to take contract works in the summer, but by no means did any of those jobs ever fulfill, like, what I wanted to do long term. It was always just to pay the bills. And that definitely was something that I had to just come to terms with, because my focus, as you said, was. Was getting like myself to an Olympic caliber in eight years, not. Not in four. So when I made the national team in three years, there were a lot of opinions and people that, you know, thought. I thought that I was friends with. I quickly realized just how different this world was than I imagined.

It's cutthroat.

How do the opinions exist, though, when it's a time on the.

On the board, you'd think so. You'd think that that wouldn't matter.

But doesn't that trump everything?

It's not so much about People didn't question my ability. It's. It's. They question whether or not I deserved the ability that I'd suddenly shown or that it was like.

Or deserve the opportunity.

Yep. Yep. Because I got asked to be training with the national team sooner than some people did. Um, I was reached out one. Like, I was doing so flash backwards a little bit. And I. I knew one thing for sure. As I started getting better and was able to travel at least a little bit, I got to a couple of tracks in Europe and. But mainly spent all my time in North America. America. And the one thing that I knew for certain was that we always raced selection races in Calgary and Whistler, which meant that those were the two tracks that I had to spend all my time at, because if I wanted to make this team, those are the tracks I had to be the best at. So I spent tons of weeks on my own dime living in Whistler, just, like, going and going and going and going. Because I was like, everyone was so scared of that track. It's the fastest track in the world. And when we learned it, everyone was trying to scare the new people. And I knew why, because they didn't want to get stepped over. And I went out there by myself. And at one point, I literally was sharing a track time with John Montgomery, who was, like, practicing with his new sled that he was building. And it's John Montgomery and I on the track. Only at the Olympic track that he won. And I'm just like, yeah, like, hell, yeah. This is where I belong. So.

Did other people not realize that you were putting in that extra time and doing due diligence and going above and beyond. Actually did other people not realize that you were doing that? And, and then they feel that, you know, whatever position you made was undeserved.

I don't know if no people. So complete transparency like I was. Social media was very prevalent and I was already using it to try to garner some sponsors for future at least, or at least some kind of support. So I was publicizing where I was all the time. So there was no, there was no. If people wanted to know where I was, I was definitely not hiding it.

Right.

So I think because the success seemingly came on faster than I, than people expected it to, that's where the jealousy element of sport happened. And nobody ever asked, you know, what other things I was doing. So there was a lot of comments behind my back about, you know, things just being given to me. But I think that happens to a lot of people that have success quickly and, and I wasn't in a space like age wise that I cared. Like I knew what I wanted to do and I. People that were going to have something separate to say other than if you wanted to know the truth, just talk to me like. And if I was more than open to share information about tracks and the equipment that I was on. But people started shutting down too, which just made it that much difficult because you're just like, well, not like I don't have anything to say. So my focus was never outside of myself, it was inside. And what I needed to do was try to make that national team. So when I did, I did. That was the deal.

It's unfortunate that this happens so frequently that there's not more transparency and collaboration in order to have positive rivalry which then elevates our national system instead of, instead of pits it against each other and then pulls people down.

I will say, like to the end of there were a number of athletes and they know who they are, who like. We did our best to continuously stay connected and able to have that like working together, camaraderie, even when we knew we were racing each other and it stayed throughout. But it was just a small core group of people that were able to maintain that. The stress from outside factors, the federation, the culture, those things really drew us into a space that I don't think a lot of us really liked who we were becoming because there really was no option. Like who I became in eight years emotionally was certainly not who I thought I would become had I not had to go through so much shit. So I can only imagine without having ever had a full conversation, some people I've actually talked to about it later. And we laugh. Like, we'd probably have been best friends had we not been in that situation.

Yeah.

Because we're so similar. Like, you end up in a sport because you are so close to each other, and you end up disliking the people that are the closest to your personality because it's just reflecting the things in yourself. And that was where, you know, we didn't have anyone in front of us saying, like, hey, hey, hey. Like, look what's happening. Let's not do this. It was more like, if you don't do this today, then you'll lose your job. So of course you're gonna panic and just be like, well, I'm just gonna do my job, then. Like, screw that person.

Yeah.

And that's how people feel around you. So when I was. When I made the World cup team, I was just focused on keeping my job and other people around me were trying to get take it. So, you know, that's where you just are like, okay, like, I better. I better just keep it.

It's like the. The stress of living in survival mode in definitely 100%.

100%. Like, you're just a rabid dog just trying to survive, like. And it's pretty wild looking backwards at that stuff, like. But I did have a lot of incredible success for those first two years, and that was unheard of in terms of people that had come up the ranks so quickly. And suddenly I found myself face to face with an Olympic spot within my grasp.

Which is, like, tantalizing.

Ugh. Yeah. And debilitating all at the same time.

Tell. Tell us about that.

So within that first year on the World cup, there were a lot of tracks. Like, basically 90% of the tracks we went to, I had never seen. And for people listening, it's good to understand this. If you ever watch skeleton, you only get three days of practice at any track you show up at, which means that you only get two minutes for three days. That's six minutes of practice. If you go to that track every single year, that still means that you're not there for 11 months of the year, even. That's if it's return on the next season. Sometimes tracks are off of a circuit for three years, so you're returning to tracks that you might have notes for. Or if you're like, me, I had none. I didn't. I was in Vehicles in Europe memorizing pictures of, like, a drawing of a track to memorize which way the corners go to get there. And watch the video before I. And just try to remember everything. To get on my sled in the middle of a competitive training that I have to complete safely, at least two of them, which means me and my sled have to cross the finish line together to be qualified for that race. Now, that's a daunting task at the best of times, but never mind when you have, like, hundreds of people, cameras, and now you're supposed to be one of the best people in your country in a sea of only, like, less than 100 females in the world that do this sport. So I was definitely in over my head, but would finish that season eighth in the world, which should. Should tell you that I was dedicated to winning and demonstrating that I knew what I was doing on that sled. That's for sure.

When. When you finish eighth in the world, are you elated? Are you stressed? Are you like, what. What does that. You know?

Yeah, that's.

A lot of people should be celebrating. And then at the same time, knowing athletes and knowing where you want to go. It's also the kind of, okay, what do I have to do next kind of thing. Like, what was it like for you?

Yeah, that first year again? So it's the people around me. So my strength and conditioning coach at the time and throughout my most, like, my. My whole World cup career was Kelly Forbes. And Kelly was really good at understanding my emotional state, I would say, better than anything. And because of that, I could have conversations with him that made me feel like I could stay pretty balanced through it, and that made me be able to be very, very, like, elated, as you said, at the end of that season, because it wasn't an Olympic year. Yes, it was two out. But at the same time, that meant that all the things that I believed I could do again, which I was also told by my staff and stuff that I could do, you know, I did. So now here I am, face to face with an Olympic season.

Your belief, your belief is becoming reality. All the things you didn't know were. You knew were possible, but you didn't know were possible for yourself were now becoming reality. And you could see that it could be tangible and real and possible.

Which is a pretty incredible feeling, even if it's just lasts for, like, a brief moment, because that's all we need. That's all athletes need is, like, one taste of the possibility and then that, like, feels you again for the next endless amount of weeks. And. Yeah, go ahead.

So what. What happened next for you then? Because now you're. You Finished that season in a place that you probably never thought was possible.

Yeah, our women's team, we were all in the top 10 that year overall. And that meant we went into the summer training together like champs. Like, it was such an unbelievable summer. I had all the right amount of rest. I was training super hard. I had never been in better shape. My push was great. And when we got to selections, I won both of them. And one memory that I. So two things happened during those selections, which is still, like, crazy. I had so many people around me, rallying around me from communities that I'd met, people that I just met that summer. And when that second day of selection races happened in Calgary, it was so loud at the start. It's never been that loud, like, even during a World Cup. Like, it was so unreal that I pushed faster than I'd ever pushed. And I remember like my head coach, like, literally plugging his ears at the start because it was so loud when I stood when I went up there. And I was one of the athletes. Like, some people like it really quiet right before they go, and I absolutely hate it. And the people that know me know that. So it was like, crank it up. Yeah, it was endlessly loud from the moment I came out to the moment I left the starting block. And that was like, that's a memory that I will never forget because it was exactly what I was about. Like, I was about. I am about, like, showing people what's possible. And in that moment, that was me saying, like, like, fuck, yeah. Like, here it is. Here's that thing. Here's me, 2009, 2010, watching John Montgomery win, going like, yeah, why not me? Why not me? And here I am like, Olympic year, trying to make the national team. That year doesn't necessarily mean you make the Olympic team. And I was, that was my first goal was to make that, that World cup team again. And I did. But something else happened and that something else was there are certainly, you know, there are certainly people on the team that have gone to the Olympics before and they were looking to do their last go. And the thing about selection races is that we do two races at each track. And that time when we got to Whistler, Melissa Hollingsworth didn't have the race she was looking for in her first heat of the, of the first race. And because of that, she ended up being like sixth or seventh, I think, in that first race in Whistler, which pushed her out of the top three overall, which then meant that it was. We had a pre selected Sarah Reed, myself and Robin Thompson would then make the World cup team which then put the coaching staff at a weird position because you have an Olympic medalist, two time Olympian at that time, outside of the top three. And so there was, there was all these meetings that started going on of which I was not a part of. I would later find out that happened with some of the athletes and without me that put us in a position to find out that they would like they were going and we had to go to Russia right away after selections because we had another, another rep there to go like get some training and they were going to take all four of us instead of the three that had made the team, which like that's fine, but it meant that, that, that there was some questionable decisions as to who was going to be racing. And that's when the chaos began.

You can hear the politics starting to come out because of the expectation of the Olympian, the medalist. Everybody thought for sure was going to be in the top three automatically. So there's no question. And then there's likely other factors that come in like well, there's only funding for this many or there's only, you know, there's only spots or only this many can compete. And, and it just, that's, that's where the ugly comes out in high performance sport.

Yeah. So then we were faced with this reality that we were told very quickly that when we got back to, to Canada to do the first World cup in, in Calgary, which is tough to do a first World cup at home too, that after the first two races, one was in Calgary and then the next one was in Park City. Whoever was finished, whoever finished ahead of because, because Sarah was already pre selected, they let her stay out of the mix. So it was just between Robin and I and so Robin and I were pitted against each other and then whoever would finish ahead of the other person, then Mel would take their, the person below spot and that third person would go down a circuit, still not necessarily making the Olympic team, but giving Melissa another opportunity to come back to the World cup to get some extra points and potentially demonstrate her, her true sliding ability at a separate track. Which you know what? I'm all for everybody like giving their best. I never wanted to beat people that crashed or had something happen beyond their control like outside of their performance. But it was really shitty to find out when you know, I went from the highest high of making the Olympic year national team to discovering within the next two days that before I went to Russia I was already on the chopping block potentially and as far as I was concerned, I was the second sled. Like, if you looked at rankings to that point. But they made. They made myself and Robin. Yeah, but Robin and I were basically equal. So as it would have, you know, as it would happen, we'd go to Calgary and it would be a very, very interestingly cold week. No, no excuses. Like, I picked the wrong equipment for that race and I. It was a rookie mistake. And I finished ninth. And Robin, I think she finished eighth or something like that. She was just ahead of me. But the point difference between is, like, very minimal. And so there I was already in third. And when we went to Utah, and at the same time, Melissa's racing over in Europe in tracks like Altenberg and stuff, and she was not doing well. Like, those tracks were really, really difficult. And at the same time, you have so much less support on this, on the lower circuits. Certainly more than like, she. For years, she did like 20 years of skeleton. Right. She was not used to having only one coach with her. Not like five. Or the fact that you have. Or like to. Not to her detriment. It's true. Like, when you're all World cup, you have massage therapists and physio and everything with you, you don't have that. When you go with Intercontinental and they're like, literally just as good there. They just don't have the same support because everyone's vying for those World cup spots anyways. When we went to Utah, a very similar thing happened. And I finished right behind Robin and ultimately was the third spot. And Robin literally and I. We must have both been so stressed because we, neither of us race well. And like, Utah was the one place that I actually got my first World cup medal at. And that's a track that I knew how to run. And I. And I didn't do it. Like, just all these random things happen. So we ended up in this position where I knew I was leaving and I got sent down to icc. And at that time, Robin, Sarah and I were all ranked so high that they. And Melissa at that time was ranked 26th in the world. So they sacrificed a 26th rank to come up to World cup, to take someone who is in ninth at the time to go down, which is actually a really ridiculous move when it's important to understand the only way you get three sleds at the Olympics is if your whole country together has people in the top. I think five is how it works. But top five or eight anyhow. And we would have been able to do that given more Races before Christmas, but then we mix them up and you can't. So a first place in Intercontinental, which is considered like the B circuit, is equal to 13th place on a World Cup. So no matter what happened to me, even if I won, I could never get myself back into the rankings. If Melissa even finished in the top 13.

Yeah.

And that's where things started to get real fucked because there's no time. Sarah gets all of her qualifiers and gets picked to the team. So now she's officially going to the Olympics. And now we have two spots still open up to Christmas between three of us. Apparently the boys are in a very similar position. And oddly enough, John Montgomery also is in the same position. We both get sent down. So I have the Olympic gold medalist, defending gold medalist, and myself. We get sent to Germany on a very, very last minute flight. And as soon as we get off, we have to go straight to the track because everything's happening so quickly. And it was just like. It was nuts. It was nuts. And going into Christmas, like by no means did anything go very well. And they still hadn't necessarily decided they were going to take three. And what happened was this. So they went to Lake Placid with the World cup team. I think Sarah did quite well. Robin did a little bit average, but Melissa had a very good second run. And she ended up like. She didn't end in the medals by any means, but her second run was ranked second overall. If you were to look at the standings, it didn't push her into the medals, but later they would claim that that was the reason that she got that second Olympic spot. And so at Christmas time, they named two men and two women to the Olympic team. And the two women were Sarah and Melissa. And technically I was ranked higher than her in the standings. But it's. It doesn't matter at that point because they're able to say, like, well, it's always coach's discretion when it comes down to that moment.

There's the numbers, but then there's coach's discretion. So what happened to you and Robin?

So at Christmas time there was a conversation that we should have a race off. Now, of course, it was Calgary in the middle of like December, so it was cold snap. It was like minus 40. The track was really having a hard time staying together, so they couldn't do it. And in some ways I, I hate that we didn't because I think it would have been best because at least then I could have done something to decide. But instead they let Robin stay in World cup it was kind of arbitrary. And then they just said like, okay, Cassie, you can stay on ICC and you're going to go to Utah because you were just there so you have some extra experience. You're going to do a double race and if you win those races, you can come to Europe and you can push for your spot or for the third spot necessarily. They never said they were going to give it to me by any means, let's be serious. But they said that I could come to Europe and have that very last race before the final date of the Olympic selection. And I said, okay, I'll do what I have to do. So I packed my stuff and I went to Utah with the ICC team. And you know, for purposes of time, just understand that it was, it was like.

Well, it was a blizzard, wasn't it?

For the first race, the first race actually, the clock didn't start. Stop. Sorry. It didn't stop. So I was first off because you go off rank. So I was ranked so high that I went off first off the block. So I crossed the finish line, looked up and the clock was still ticking and I panicked. In my whole, you know, five years at that point, I had never experienced that nor I'd seen it. So I didn't know what they did. Like, what do you mean? Do I go again immediately? Do I like, throw my sled in the bush? Do I, you know, like, what do I do?

So thank skeleton Jesus.

Yeah, you know, like, so I got in the truck having a panic attack, basically, like, totally adrenaline dump. And I'm thinking to myself, like, okay, I gotta calm down because if I have to push again, like, I can't be completely like, cns fried. Yeah. So I get to the top. Thankfully, the bee timing system got my time and ultimately I would win. Great, great. Won the first day. Check. Winning an ICC race is also considered an Olympic qualifier during that time. But it was within the the time before Christmas, so I didn't know whether they'd count that. And I needed two more qualifiers, which meant that I just had another one if they would count it. The next day, as you said, Paul, I woke up, open the blinds and like three feet of snow. As I said, I was very light. I'm 59 kilos. Like, I was not the snow racer. If there's snow on the track and they can't get rid of it and you go through it on your track, like on your sled, you're basically like, put on the brakes. Somehow I got through all the right lines.

Got you at a Big breakfast.

Yeah, I had a huge. All the bacon and just crushed it. And we ended up. It was really brutal because it was.

The.

The track in. In Utah isn't covered very well. And one of the things that happens with a lot of tracks, um, the. The discrepancy between, like, the first few sleds in the second heat actually got canceled the second heat because of how awful it was. So we went by just the first heat and, like, thankfully I had won that heat. And so I won the race. And so I am. I. I have never been that happy to win just like a random, seemingly nothing race. But I, you know, I. I knew what it was, right? Like, I knew what that was. Checking. And so I had my phone, from the moment I got back to the top, like, stuck to my hip, like, where is my phone call? Because I gotta get on a plane to go to Europe. Like, right now.

Yeah. This is your third race that needs to happen.

That's right. And I was watching and the other girls had another race. And now, you know. And so Eagles, Austria was where the next and final race before the Olympic selection was finalized was going to happen. Eagles is a pusher's track. It's all kinds of things. That is not my forte. But I couldn't give a shit. I was gonna go there and I was gonna defile odds and, like, win, because that was what needed to happen. And I waited and I waited through awards and I waited through us cleaning up and I waited us through us driving back to the hotel, and I waited through packing and I waited and I waited. And then it was like fucking nighttime and I still didn't get a call. So now I'm thinking, like, well, it's in the middle of the night for sure in Europe, like, what happened? And the coach that's with me just said, oh, well, sorry. Like, yeah, they did call before, but they said, you know, like, they. They never said they were going to take you. And I was like, what? What are you talking about? Like, I had a fucking phone call with the head coach, which now I wish I had recorded.

Yeah.

If anyone is ever listening right now and you've ever wondered to yourself, should I be recording my coaching calls? Yes, you should. Because there's always something that happens that they later claim. No, that's not what I said. Well, guess who can't prove it. Cassie.

Yeah. Yeah.

So I was sitting in a situation where I believed I was going to be put on a plane. And the plane I got put on took me back to Calgary to wait because the comment was they felt that Robin was a much better pusher. And because it was a pushers track, she would try to, like, get some extra points for the team and then they would decide. Then they would decide who the third sled was going to be. Even after I just got those two first places. Right. So, like, technically it. It was my spot because I just got. I got the thing that we needed to get. Like, who cares? Yeah.

Do you think they. Do you think that they had already decided and then, then you winning those two races just kind of threw a wrench into the whole decision they'd already made?

I don't know. I honestly have no idea.

Do you think it came down to money.

Maybe? Like, I had sponsors that were ready to send me to Europe. Like, so if that was the case.

Then it shouldn't have.

It shouldn't have been. Yeah, yeah. Like, I. Yeah, I don't know. I wish I knew because even after I asked, I still couldn't get answers later.

So, I mean, so what happened to the third spot in the selection? Yeah, because of course we'd have three spots for Canada.

Right? The Olympics taken three. Right. So either I came to terms with it or what. But I said, okay, like, I'll wait here. Let's figure out what happens from here. And because they're in Austria, the day I'd been watching their training, the girls were training those, as I said, those three days before the race. And everyone was training, doing their two training runs and stuff is totally normal. And then I was having breakfast in Calgary. So it would have been the night before the race in Austria. And I got a phone call from the high performance director. And I thought it was going to be about my first places because I'd asked if they would be considered as Olympic qualifiers. And so my understanding was that we were about to have that meeting as to their decision. So I showed up there just assuming that's, you know, what the agenda was going to be. And he's in this. It's. I have to describe this because of how absurd it was. So when I walked up there, like, the offices that bobsleigh Canada Skelton was in were all glass. Like, the outside walls are all glass, so the doors are glass too. And there's like no shutters or anything. So when I walked in and he said, hey, can you close the door behind you? Like, I wanted to be like, but why? Like, is it gonna matter anyhow? So I closed it and sat down and he said I wanted. He just got into it, right Away. He's like, I wanted to you to hear it from me first and not find out another way. Um, no one is going to be racing in tomorrow's race in Eagles Austria. Like, no female is going to be racing. I'm like, what?

They're like, thereby disqualifying Canada from taking.

Third spot, thereby losing another medal chance.

That's right. Right. All three of them would take zero points. And I didn't understand because they'd all been training. And he said that they were all showing signs of concussions, and of course their health is priority. But I didn't get it. Like, why. Why had they been training then if that was the case? Like, I knew. I knew well in advance that those girls had been showing concussion symptoms, like, here and there. Right. But no one had ever stopped them from racing. So I like, well, I'm not a doctor. I don't know what's going on. And then. Then I find this out. Like, I was completely healthy. I had had no issues all year or leading up to that point even. Why was I not sent? So here's the thing. They told me the last minute, there's nothing I could do even if I would have gotten on a plane that day, because people are like, why didn't you go race? As I said, I didn't complete two safe runs, and now it was too late because training was done. So even if I showed up, I couldn't even get myself in that race.

But you could have. You could have had it been. Yeah, yeah.

Had I just got on the plane and done what? I had some sponsors that were like, just go anyways. And like, I should have, but anyways, it doesn't matter. That's not how it works. So ultimately, we lost our third spot entirely. And then the choice was they didn't have to make a choice.

Yeah, yeah. Between you and Robin.

And that was it. Right. So even any of the work that Robin had done, too. Absolutely no disrespect to her. She was busting her ass over there as well. And both of us were just like, oh, okay, sick. Like, I guess that's it then. So Sarah and Mel would go to the Go. To the. Go to the Games in Sochi, and I was named the alternate, and like, thank you. But also, the alternate doesn't go. So some sports, they take the alternates, and sometimes they get all the same things that the rest of the Olympians get. But I got like a. I got nothing because, quite frankly, I hadn't heard from a single coaching staff member since Utah. So nobody called me. Not after the decision, not after they didn't race, not before the Olympics, and not after the Olympics until I asked to speak to someone.

Yeah, it's like, people really have to think that. Imagine you work for a company for four years and you do everything you can for the company, and you go to extra events and training outside of what the company's prescribed to improve your performance for the company, and then the company decides not to continue the contract with anymore. But the people that you've worked with for four years and all this stuff for don't have the decency to speak to you.

Yeah, they just. They literally just pack your stuff and put it in a box and nobody ever calls you again. Like, everyone's number's changed. You're like, what?

It's. It doesn't sound real.

It's like the mob.

Crazy. How.

How did you handle that? Because you. You literally got the rug pulled out from under your feet. Yeah.

I didn't really. Like. I don't think. I don't think I could process it. The anger was just so. Was so tangible. My family had already spent three thousands of dollars booking tickets, buying tickets for the Olympics, making accommodation arrangements. Like, remember, this is in Russia. It's not just.

It's one of the hardest with the women's. I was working with the women's national hockey team at the time, and it was one of the hardest Olympics for any spectator to get to. Like, it was. It wasn't like any other Olympics in that sense. It was expensive, it was challenging to travel. It was. There was so many things.

Yeah. And you don't just call the airline and say, oh, hey, my daughter didn't actually make the Olympic team in the end, so can we have our money back?

Yeah, they don't care.

You just lose it. Like, and that. And it doesn't. Like, whatever.

But it wasn't that. It wasn't that.

I mean, that's.

That's the shitty side effect. But for you. I know you, like, you. You're angry, but are you numbing it?

Are you.

Are you in a fog? And that kind of.

That answers the question. Like, I was so focused on how many people I'd let down. That's how it felt. And I know that's not true, but that's what I was focused on. I was focused on how upset everyone else was for me.

Sponsors, family, friends, supporters.

I had the weight of, you know, like, tens of thousands of dollars on me to. To be performing for Canada. And in the end, I did Everything I could and I still got nothing. And you live your whole life as a child, in most cases, being told that if you do the right thing and you do as you're told and you work hard and you believe in yourself, you'll get what you deserve. And like, to this, I want to bring this up because I just saw. So Rogers cup was in Toronto this past couple weeks, right, for tennis and local, like, local player Bianca won in like, what was a very difficult finish for Serena, who couldn't finish that first set. But it's not about that. It was the comment when Bianca was on the stage after accepting the trophy and she said, you know, I want this to be a representation for anyone that if you just work hard, you can get, you can do this too. What that, like, she's 19, she's already had so many injuries. I have no doubt that, like, why do we keep toting that line to other athletes? Just work hard. Well, guess what? Hard work accounts for such a small percentage that you will be blown away when you discover that no matter how hard you work, there is still something that can fuck you over.

No, no. What you are. What you are articulating. Paul's like, Paul's pumping his fist in the air going, yep. Because he's the.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure.

And it just, it doesn't come together because of so many other factors. But that's the thing that we're not taught is that there's so many other things that are circumstance that we can't control. And whether it's our parents, our coaches, our teachers or whatever or whoever, there, there's not that line or that, that lesson that's been taught that says, hey, you know what? Sometimes it's just not fair sometimes.

And here's some tools to deal with it, right?

And nobody's given the tools because then as the athletes or the coaches or whoever or whatever the circumstance is, you are left in that pit of whether it's despair or numbness or anger or depression or post traumatic stress, but then you just simply, you have an identity meltdown. You don't know what, what life is anymore. Everything that you knew life was just got removed and now you don't understand the meaning of anything anymore. And how did you get through that? How did you get your feet back on the ground and feel like, you know, your, your heart is yours again and you determine your direction.

It took me years. Like, there are still days now that I wonder if I'm still like, still elements. I can feel like little bits of it still, like, particles floating around. And that's what's so insane, when you try to explain that to someone, if you've never gone through that kind of heartbreak, which is. It was like, a death. And I thought I could manage it. I thought I was managing it. I mean, I was talking to, you know, some therapists and stuff, but. But to no end, I was not addressing what was really happening. Like, I was so sad. I was so depressed. Like, as you said, my identity was broken into a thousand pieces. I took so much shit and continue to, quite frankly, for not going to the Olympics. And then, because I was an alternate, I get called an Olympian to this day, and I take flack for that. Like, I need a reminder.

You can't win.

Yeah. Like, please let me tell anyone that's ever bitched at me about that. I know better than anyone else. I didn't. I didn't go. Okay? Like, I'm aware I don't have an Olympic ring. I didn't get all the shit you got. It's cool. I'm not running around telling everyone that I did. People look at what I did in the same way because, quite frankly, I was ranked. Able to go, but. But who cares? Like, I don't need to hear about it anymore. And that's the kind of stuff that broke me. But I. But instead of stopping, which I don't think would have really blown anyone away, myself included, I thought about quitting for sure. I couldn't. I convinced myself that I was going to do things my way for the next quad. But what I couldn't foresee was that in the next six months, after I made the decision to return, all of the funding would be completely stripped from skeletons specifically, and I. My name would be wiped from any possibility of success by all the people and the powers that be, like, on the podium and all these companies that get to determine where the funding in Canada goes for sports said, like, there is, quote, there is no potential in Canadian women's skeleton. And I was still on the team. Like, everyone else retired, but I stuck around. I'm like, wait, But I'm still here, guys. They're like, I'm sorry, who were you? What?

Yeah, So I just.

I just blindly pushed forward through the pain, not necessarily dealing with it, and for the most part, was really angry for the next three years. And my results showed it. Like, I bought new equipment. I lived in Phoenix. I had all kinds of things just to try and get the extra edge. I. You know, like, changing equipment for purposes of this. Of this, like, it's. It's like changing F1 drivers, like, in a. Getting a different car. It's all the same. Everything's in the same spot, but it's entirely different. And I didn't have. Yeah, I didn't have the grace period to learn. I had to win again on it. And when I came back, standards changed. They had new things that we had to, like, push in the indoor ice house, which has nothing to do with on the track performance performances. But, hey, like, let's, let's. We needed a way to prove that our athletes were good enough for on the podium. So, okay, here's a completely arbitrary standard that you have to achieve. Like, didn't do it the first year, did it the second year, like all this shit and just wasn't dealing with anything. There was no time in my mind, I had to just win, so I didn't process it.

Do you think that drive was coming from. Because. Because here's the thing. There's. There's that huge shift because of what had happened. Now, do you think you were driven out of anger and fear versus all that previous time you were being led by your heart and what you believed was possible and what you saw as your vision and what you were lit up by versus now, what you're describing now sounds like, you know, you're being driven by anger. You're being driven by fear of being shown to have it all be not worthwhile or to be shown that, okay, I wasn't a worthwhile athlete.

That's right. That's it there. Basically, like, in my mind, I was convinced that if I didn't achieve it, all of the haters would be right and they would somehow have proved that I never belonged there. And that sheer pain of imagining that was the new driver. And I had moments of clarity. I had some, like, sports performance coaching done by a name of a woman by name, Joanne Polil. And she was the only person to get through to me that whole entire time and help me at least see some. Some light through the tunnel of darkness that I was living in. And that was when I was able to see some performances on the track and in my mind and really identify the things that I was carrying around. And those tools that you mentioned, Paul, that she had something to help me manage. But because I was so, like, under practice, it was so easy to fall back out of them over and over again. And my discipline wasn't resting on fixing my mind or my heart. It was. It was resting on winning. And therefore, you know, when things Got stressed, of course I would, I would go back to old habits. And so I was kind of, you.

Know, double edged sword at that point. Though you, in your mind, your worth was tied to you winning. So why on earth would you ever be just working on yourself to work on yourself to feel like you were valuable or feel like you were not in a depressed state? Why would you ever do that? Because your value is completely tied to winning. So you're only working on your mindset in order to win. Period.

Yeah, yeah. Which. Which only gets you so far and certainly doesn't get you far enough to perform. Right.

Because it's, it's so much more than that.

Yeah, yeah. And in a sport where your mind is probably more important than anything to find that state of being able to really become one with your equipment going as fast as we go, like 140km per hour, you can't be elsewhere, even in the back of your mind. And certainly in the back of my mind I was.

So your sport becomes your numbing tool or your escape tool because you have to be so focused on it.

Yep, yep. Yeah. Yeah. And. And so there I was, you know, did three years of that and, and ultimately had some. I kept getting pitted against other people again and all these little mini like crappy moments that were like unnecessary. But it was always. And I know for a fact that it was a tool to try to show me that I didn't. That they didn't want me anymore, but they couldn't cut me because I kept making teams.

Yeah.

So in the end, which you, you.

Know, in the back of your mind is such a crappy feeling. It's like, you know it but nobody's saying it and, and the kind of, you know, they want to get rid of you and you're just like tenacious and keep hanging on and.

Yeah. And in some kind of like universal slap in the face. My la. Yeah. My last race was in Utah as well. Of my entire career. Wow. And that was the race that. So after it happened, I, my dad and I actually drove down for it. It was another one of these, like, oh, you have to go here to have this race off with this person, blah, blah, blah, and horrible conditions. The only time I've ever broken a visor, like in track, huge bloody nose, like chaos. Never done that. Eight years. And driving home after the race, it just washed over me. I wanted nothing to do with this anymore. And I gave myself two weeks. I stayed at home with my family. I didn't answer emails, I didn't answer Phone calls, I ignored everything. And every single day I woke up feeling the exact same way.

Yeah.

And that was it. Because I'd certainly felt that, that I want to quit feeling before. But this time it was different. I was done. I was absolutely 100% finished with that sport.

You gave it everything you possibly had.

Yep. Yeah, the pail was empty.

Did that help you move forward?

I think in some ways. But I think it finally made me face what I hadn't dealt with yet, which maybe made it feel harder because it wasn't like I had mind blowing cries and all these like real dumps of emotion. I didn't deal with it. So until I could stop and like, face myself in the mirror and go, like, all right, well, guess what? Like, now you got to live the rest of your life. Who do you want to be like, this person that you've become in this space or you? Because they were two very different people. And my mom said as much. Like, I knew it, but no one had ever said it out loud until my mom said, cassie, we were really worried you were never going to be yourself again. So, you know, that was the hard truth, that's for sure.

So kind of two years removed from this looking back on it and how you feel today, if you couldn't change any part of it, would you do it again? And based on your answer, why?

I totally would. Because who I am today, and this is not one of those cop out answers like, I take no shit. Now I know what I'm good at. I know when I'm not good at something. I know how to ask for help way better now. I know how to protect myself in situations. And I know how to never find myself in a scenario where I'm being taken advantage of. And that is something that you cannot teach people. You can tell them about it, but until you go through it, it's near impossible. And who I can now say that I am as an athlete is far and above like any of the medals that I got or didn't get. And I regret nothing. As shit as it ended. In so many ways, I've never looked at the whole career as anything other than proud.

Hmm, that's fantastic now. Or do you think you're. Do you think your heart has healed? Do you think you're. All that scarring from the pain? Are you ready to be vulnerable to new things in your life.

More and more? As I mentioned, like, those particles are still there. And I think a lot of this has to do with also who I ended up with as a Partner too. Right. So I'm in a relationship and have been for a number of years with Alex Kopach, who through his four years would win an Olympic gold medal. And the heartbreak and success that he went through was also shared. Both of ours were. And I think that in a lot of ways we now have a lot of healing to do as a partnership because of what we endured as athletes, both separately and together. And because of that, sometimes that pain is a little bit more at the surface than maybe I wish it needed to be. But I would never be able to be like the version of myself, even as a partner either, without him. So, you know, it's all for something.

Do you even think that someone who isn't as close to sport and gone through what he's gone through can even understand what you've gone through?

The best friends that I have in my life are people that have nothing to do with this. And that answers me in terms of, like, what I need externally, but what I need internally is certainly what Alex and I have. Because, you know, you're looking to heal those parts of yourself when you find a partner, whether it's bored or otherwise. Your family, you know, all those things. But yeah, so I find myself, certainly we've done work on that too. And I know that without having been told, but being told it in more, you know, paid for sessions, you find out the things that you already knew to be very true, and you're like, damn it. But, yeah, to answer your question, like, I don't think so. I dated other people outside of the sport before. And even when things were good, like, you just can't get the same kind of understanding that you definitely need, as much as you try to tell yourself you don't.

If you now just to kind of come full circle and wrap things up, what would you tell young athletes based on all your experience and what you know now? What's that nugget? What's that tidbit that you would share? And obviously it's not, oh, if you.

Just work hard, you know, definitely not that one.

What would you share based on all of your experience?

It's a hard one because not everyone pays attention. But you really have to trust your instincts and the people closest to you, like the closest, not the people you just met, like the people that really know you will also notice those instincts. And oftentimes the things that you don't want to hear are the things that you need to hear. So those are the kinds of things you have to pay attention to. And I would Say these things are particular, particularly true in high performance and start in and around, you know, your university years. But if you make it out of there and into a national team situation, like, you know, you know who's there to help protect you and who's in your corner and who isn't and just be true to yourself through that. It's not about trying to take anyone else down, but just like, pay attention to your instincts because you're. You're next to never wrong.

Well, that's. That's fantastic advice. And I, on behalf of our listeners and speaking for Kari here a little bit, want to thank you for just being so brutally honest and sharing your story and the. The hell that you went through that, you know, could break many a person. And. Yeah. So just want to recognize you for that and thank you for that, for just sharing so honestly with us today. Like, so much to be learned and can be taken from your story. We're thankful that you shared it with us.

I am thankful that you guys have a space for some of us to do this. I don't think it would have been as easily explained even a couple years ago. And not that it's simple, but I have a lot more transparency in my ability to see what happened from. For myself too now.

So thank you, hindsight hindsight 2020 as it is. And time heals everything too. So that's a big thing too. To wrap this up on the flip side, because I second what Paul has said in acknowledging you, but at the same time, we also know that you are just this incredibly dynamic and upbeat and fun and funny person. So to finish on that lighter note, can you give us, you know, something quirky, funny about you that people just may not know behind the scenes and.

Maybe your favorite besides riding around town with a dog in your back.

Yeah.

Which I've witnessed.

We know these things.

Yeah. I don't take myself too seriously. So. Something funny about myself. What? You put me on the spot here. Just, like, spend 10 minutes with me and I'm the most sarcastic person and I'm so glad I never lost that. But I will say this, like, more recently maybe in terms of trying to put myself in more vulnerable positions. This past weekend, I was at a charity event out in BC and I. We found out that the band that was performing was willing to have some of us on stage if we wanted and I.

To do what?

To sing. And so, like, I can sing, but I don't necessarily enjoy telling people or showing them, like, in a setting like that. Especially not on A stage, like at an event with hundreds of people. But for some reason, I decided it was just like I needed to do that. So I reached out to them. And for anyone that's, like, born in the era of, like, really angsty 90s, it was Faber Drive, that's who. So if anyone wants to look them up when you hear their song, you're.

Like, I remember that.

And so we started chatting and I ended up, long story short, singing Fleetwood Mac's Dreams. And. And I got rave reviews and I was totally terrified. But that's the kind of stuff that I find myself doing now. And maybe it's because that's the adrenaline junkie in me or what, but, yeah, I also just need to be vulnerable. And now that's where I find myself doing, is really finding spaces to be authentic. And that would transition into my current situation too, because I'm just looking to break out of the things that I keep finding myself doing and just stop doing those things and do completely different. So that's where I'm at right now.

You're going to have a new career just like that.

I don't think they asked me to sing for them, but I definitely could have, like, a traveling, you know, special guest appearance.

That is awesome. That is awesome.

Now you know.

Well, thank you so much for your time and thank you so much for being with us because your story is incredible and I think it's going to benefit some many people to hear what really goes on behind the scenes and what you've gone through and how you've come through it, because you're an incredible, incredible person. So thank you so much.

Well, thank you guys. You're so kind and I do hope that this helps. Even just one person down the road, that would be enough for me, honestly.

Thank you so much for listening. To get more support in living your best life, find us in our free Facebook community Empowered top performers. We're on Instagram, Paul Durden and powerconditioning. Please share this podcast and rate us. A five star review would mean the world to us. That is how we connect with and support more people to excel in sport and life. Take what you learned today and try it. Progress is perfection.

Sa.