EP6 Kari and Paul - The Athlete Identity

This is the Empowered Athlete Podcast, episode six.

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life. And Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Foreign. Hello, everyone, and welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast. Paul Durden here with you alongside Kari Snyder. And it is a Paul and Kari episode. Today we're going to be diving to a topic just for the two of us, a special topic. And, Kari, what are we going to be talking about today?

We're on to identity. And this is, is, I think, a key topic for most athletes and all sorts of people who are really high performing in their profession or what they really focus on in life.

Yeah, I'm, I'm excited to talk about this because it's been a common theme. If you listen to our interviews with the athletes, all athletes have that identity within their sport, but do they have something beyond. I know personally, for me, I didn't. We're going to get into that today, but it is definitely something that's relevant for everyone. And even outside of sport, you know, a lot of people are defined by what they do or something that really makes or breaks them, and it doesn't provide a lot of balance. So let's get into it.

That sounds good. So we've kind of talked about this a little bit and we divided ourselves in order to list off some things, some tips that we thought would be really good for people who might be struggling with identity or don't even realize that it's going to become a struggle because they're so focused on what they do. So, Paul, you were gonna give some tips about identity. I think Talking to yourself 20 years.

Ago, maybe that's right. I, in trying to come up with some advice or, you know, get into my experiences and be able to find a way of sharing it. You put the question to me. What would you tell yourself 20 years ago? And that made it easier. It kind of just made it clear. Yeah. Okay. If I had two minutes to talk to myself 20 years ago, what would I want to cram into those two minutes? What are the key points that I'd want to know from my future, hopefully smarter self? So I'll start off here. The first thing that I would, you know, tell myself, the first tip I give anyone out there, elite athlete or whatnot, would be to explore and really work at this, but look at other interests. So being an elite athlete, you are focused, hyper focused on what you're eating, how you're sleeping, how you're training, what's next, getting your recovery. But there is a load of time in there to work on yourself and work on other things that you're interested in to get broad and have experience. And something that I've found post career that's really helped me grow and become more multifaceted is flying. It's been an absolute blast. Huge push for me, obviously, Kari, to get me to do it. It's something that always said, oh, I'd love to do that, but never took the step, never took the plunge. And having done so instantly feel, why did I not start doing this years ago? I mean, if this was something I worked on during my playing career, I could have chipped away at it. I could have had, you know, my private license, done a night rating done, multi engine rating done by the time I was finished and would have all those things that I now want and feel like I wasted time on earlier. So tip number one, I would say is just explore hobbies and interests is to broaden who you are and find things that light you up outside of your sport. That's what's missing for me. Is there anything you'd add to that?

Just that. First of all, sometimes it's easy to say that and hard to do because especially in your situation, so much time is spent on your sport that sometimes when you have that free time and that downtime, you don't feel super creative to do other things because you're so exhausted physically from everything you've been doing, practice and playing and whatever it is for the sport. But beyond that, another thing I was thinking there was that there's a book that I love called Grit by Angela Duckworth. And in order to really get really, really good at something, you have to persevere. But sometimes people struggle with the, well, how do I know what I really love? And part of figuring out what you really love is trying different things and trying many different things and then the ones that you really kind of gravitate towards, then trying them longer and seeing if they stick. And for an athlete or someone who's so specialized in something that they do, they often don't start to try other things at all. And that's where their self or their identity is really caught up and intertwined with that one spirit sport or that one career that they do.

Yeah, that's right. And it makes me think that a lot of athletes, when they have free time and go to do something else, a hobby or interest, a lot of times it's another Sport. And a lot of times it's golf. You know, how many hockey players or volleyball players, you know, when they have time off, they're out golfing.

Well, you know, is that.

Are you going to be. Exactly, exactly. It's absolutely important to get that. That mental break and do something you love, connect with other people. Also. Also use a bit of. Yep. But definitely use that time wisely. You know, if you do have X amount of hours of free time, don't fill it all with golf. And, you know, watching the Golf Channel, it's. It's exploring, like you said, try things, see how they feel, try it on for size and then stick with it longer if it feels good.

Yeah. Nothing against golf. It just. It hasn't served us.

Yeah, I love golf. I lose balls. I'm horrible, but absolute blast. But, yeah, I can't spend all my time doing it or I'm not gonna progress as a human. So.

Yeah. Yeah.

The next point I wanted to bring up for myself, I'm running out of time here, my two minutes. But would be to really find, nurture, explore friendships outside of your sport. I was lucky enough to have my brother from another mother, Kurt Smith, who I met in Calgary when I was with the national team. I met him through a class I was taking at the university. I actually did take a couple of university classes, believe it or not, but met Kurt and we just hit it off and it was awesome to have him as someone I could hang with, who allowed my mind to absolutely get away from volleyball and training and, you know, talk about music and girls and just feel normal. You talked about girls once or twice.

Come on.

Yeah, but, yeah, it was, you know, looking back on, I see the value of having that outlet and just a great friend like that who's not directly involved in your sport because it just gives you context, allows you to just feel somewhat normal because we are normal as athletes in terms of being people. But what we're doing for our vocation, or our job, if you will, is. Is completely abnormal. So trying to stay grounded and having experiences outside of your sporting world, which can be so intense, is therapeutic and really gets you coming back to work again stronger. Do you anything you want to add on that one? I.

Well, it's those. It's those relationships that you create within it on a team that it's inevitable that if you're in a team sport that there's usually going to be one or two players that you bond with, like best friends. And even for individual sports, same thing. Like, even if you're focused on an individual sport, there's still those other people that you're side by side with who spur you on or push you further, make you be a better athlete. And every once in a while, sometimes there's rivalries and you're not truly friends with someone, but every once in a while you just connect with somebody and they become a friend for life. And that's a good thing. But I've seen so many athletes discover that the foundation of their friendship with that person revolved around the spirit sport. And once the sport wasn't there, they really didn't have other layers of friendship to work on. Like I've seen so many people get married and have, you know, you've got everybody from your sport there and everything like that, and then 10 years later, they haven't stayed in touch with any of those people. And their circle of friends becomes different and that becomes life and circumstance and geography, all of those reasons. But, but making different types of friendships, I think is huge for a person to, like you say, become multifaceted or diverse.

Yeah, absolutely. And it's for me personally, just the way I am. I tend to be, tend to not share what I'm feeling, tend not to be. I can be outgoing, but I have to make the effort. Yeah. And so it's literally committing to. I would have to, you know, tell myself make the effort to make the friends outside of sport because I would default to hanging with the guys because I love hanging with the guys and the teammates. And you just, you can really connect in a special way because you understand the world you're in and the journey you're on together so you can really get that understanding. But I would need a push to seek people outside of that circle. I'd be lazy or just wouldn't proactively do it. So it's something that, yeah, you've got to be cognizant, cognizant of and really seek out those opportunities to connect with people who aren't in that tight circle of sport. And which really leads me into my, my third tip for myself or for athletes out there. And it's in terms of speaking to identity. Really, really plan and think about this and think about wanting to be broad and deep and wide and having those different layers to you and different things that you're interested in and good at and can apply yourself to. So my third point would be plan for it. You know, talk to a professional, do strengths finder. There's all kinds of aptitude tests out there that can point you in Directions to look at things you may not have thought would pique your interest initially. Use those tools that are out there and professionals to really broaden yourself. You know, I should have been talking to a therapist throughout my career, you know, just to help me deal with getting an identity beyond my sporting self. I'm sure they would have seen it a mile away that I was a one track mind focused on volleyball, competing and winning, and there wasn't anything else. To me, you know, it's not a way to live. And so, you know, a therapist volleyball machine, though. Well, absolutely. That's, that's, that's the rub, right? Because it works, it works to be that way in sport.

That focus, you're rewarded for it. Yeah, you're absolutely.

So it just fuels itself. So to, to break that cycle and, and take a step back. It's great to talk to somebody who's a pro, you know, therapist, whatever it is, psychoanalyst, whoever you want to talk to, just magical, to get into that and really have their opinion, help guide you and help you avoid the pitfalls that come from being that way.

Let me, let me ask you this. You had those professionals available to you at various times in your career, and I know that you utilize them at certain points, but what kind of, what prevented you at that stage from really seeking them out more?

Well, I think, number one, it's a belief that I don't need it. If I go there, I'm weak, you know, I, I, you know, I can handle anything. I'm strong, I'm tough, I'm mentally tough. I don't need help. But that being said, I did reach a point in my career where I broke down. I was in my first marriage with Isabel. I, gosh, I can't remember off the top of my head where we were at with the kids, but we had Xavi, Isaac and Simon. Three kids under the age of two at one point. And I literally was living day to day. And around that time, I know when this was, it was I'd been playing in France, we'd won the European cup, the Champions League. And career wise, there was a team in Italy that I wanted to play for. I had a chance to go to that fell through the coach whose interest in me there was changed. And for me, that was a massive blow to my, my ego and where I thought I was as a player and basically unknowingly slipped into a depression. And you know, I remember being in the car alone. Something, I got a call or something went wrong and I was going to be Late for something or. But just flipped out and was hitting the steering wheel, just smashing, like yelling, so upset, in a rage over nothing. And it just speaks volumes to me, having no balance, no, just living by Paul Durden, the volleyball player. And if that wasn't perfect, then I wasn't perfect. I wasn't good enough. If I wasn't on the team or playing where I wanted to be, then I had no value and I was just crushed. So that summer, I did talk to. I went to a therapist. You know, he diagnosed with mild depression and really made me aware of the thought processes that I had that were hurting me. I'm hyper analytical, and so if things weren't right, I would overanalyze the bad things and just spiral into those continuous circles of analysis of looking at what's wrong and why and going over it again and again. And that just simply brought me down to the gutter. So talking to that, that therapist, getting that help was fantastic in recognizing those thought patterns and being aware of them and immediately saying, okay, that's a negative thought. Cut it off. Try to replace this with something positive and focus on the good. And obviously now, years later, from that experience, I know how important gratitude is and things like that. But again, it's having that awareness, getting professional help, you know, and broadening yourself so that you're not tied to this one thing, this one piece that is your identity. That's, that's the whole reason for the podcast today is to really make this clear that your identity has to be beyond your sport and your results. And so those are the three big things again, to myself, you know, it's. It's. Get interest in hobbies, explore them, and really aggressively explore them. Like you said, you know, avoid the golf course once in a while and try something new. And three, number two, get those friendships and relationships outside of that sporting circle. And three, get the professional help to figure out what you might really be good at and grow and. And also check in and see how you're doing. Are you okay? And is your identity in a good place?

We believe in natural products for ourselves and our family. That's right. I'm an essential oil addict. Paul, on the other hand, is a closet oil user.

All joking aside, essential oils have allowed a higher level of health in our home, from bug repellent and cleaning to wound care. And with five kids in four different.

Schools, flu prevention doterra essential oils are the only oils we use due to the highest quality and worldwide ethical sourcing. I have pretty high standards, as most of you know, my oils need to be consistent and work. For information on DIY recipes, go to mydoterra.com Karina Schneider that's mydoterra.com Karischnider and if you want me to come teach a wellness class for you, reach out to me@ksempowerconditioning.com that's ksempowerconditioning.com I love it. I love it. And those, those transition really well into what my three tips are. And we did these separately, so there's going to be a tiny bit of crossover. But I think that, I think that you'll get really good perspective on identity between what we're both trying to offer here. So the first tip that I have is really directed towards people who are transitioning in some way. Maybe they're transitioning out of sport, maybe they're transitioning from an athlete to a coach, maybe they're transitioning from one career to another career. But when your identity is so tied to one thing, then you will inevitably feel uncomfortable in a lot of new situations. So for me, one thing I can think of is when we first moved, when I first moved to Turkey, I had left my gym in Winnipeg. I had someone managing it. I had cameras set up so that I could monitor what was going on. I was from a distance coaching the full time training center for the National Volleyball group that was staying home to keep conditioning. I and then I started, you know, coaching some locals in the, in the park in Turkey and doing things like that. So I was still in my mode as a strength coach and exercise physiologist in my head. But then I was in this environment that was a brand new country and the people I was hanging around with were wives or girlfriends of the other pro players and they had a mindset that was so, so different than mine that I found like, I felt like I couldn't relate at all because maybe the topics of conversation were recipes or books or TV shows or, you know, what was happening with the team. And those are all things I'm really interested in. But because I couldn't have my outlet of talking my craft or doing my thing, I couldn't quite feel like I was connecting very well. And it was because I was so wrapped up in my identity in sport or as a strength coach or whatever. So in that transition, my tip would be to really get to know new people, situations or environments as though it's a new adventure. So exploring it like you're, like you go on a trip like you're, when you're, we have A different mindset when we go on a vacation or go traveling, we meet new people, we might explore a new place, we might try new restaurants. But having that kind of attitude or mindset when you're transitioning to either a new career or out of sport, really, really adventurous, really, really open minded. So that's tip number one.

That's, that's good. And hearing you describe how you felt in Turkey, would you say that you had that feeling with your identity that you needed to be able to relay your expertise to people for them to understand your value and, and what you bring? Would you go as far as saying.

Oh yeah, I felt like, okay, they don't know the level that I coach at. They don't know how many certifications or degrees I have. They don't know. And it's, it's this, they don't get me. It's that kind of inner dialogue, like they don't understand me. And you know, at one point I think I'd said, oh, you know, I'd been really busy. And another wife commented like, oh yeah, aren't we all so busy? And that, that comment back in my mind was like, oh my gosh, you have no idea. And, but it was coming from a place of not relating to other people because being just so pigeonholed and caught up in my own identity and it just doesn't mean that understanding now that there's nothing that's right or wrong or better or worse, it's just different. And I had to find what was going to work for me in that situation. And when I viewed it as an adventure and when I, you know, got, when, when my daughter was at school and you were traveling, I would go and get on a bus by myself in Turkey and bus to the hills or the mountains and go on a hike by myself and come back and really be adventurous. Most people don't do that kind of stuff, but that was my way of expanding my identity and finding myself a little more in that new environment. And that's some of what really helped.

Yeah, it's great. It's being open to experience and open to discovery. It's a nice mindset to have.

So the number two would be more for people who are in sport and what I noticed. And again, this comes down to that mindset, but I was listening to some of my athletes at one point and these athletes were at a level that were university level sport or national level sport and they were having this conversation, they talked about NARPs and I had no idea. I was like, what is a NARP.

And they're like, is that from 21 Jump Street?

Yeah, right. No, not that. That so dates you.

Wow. They did a remake.

And anyway. I know, I know. So I, I was like, what is a narp? And it. NARPS was an acronym for Non Athlete Regular person. And they were saying it in a context that was, well, I have some NARP friends, you know, like. Like that. And I was going, oh, you have NARP friends. Okay, I get it. But my point is, is that. And this, this is very much coming from what I just described in the last point is when you get the feeling and it arises in you that people don't get you, when you get that feeling, be gracious, because we have this kind of selfishness that kind of says, oh, they don't get me. Well, really, maybe it's the complete flip in that you don't get them and you really don't understand them. So this is the point that I would say be gracious, be curious. Be curious about them. Maybe you don't understand them and learn a little more about them because that is not only a gift for yourself, but it also teaches them who you really are in being curious about someone else. And then maybe if they want to know about you, explain in a way that they can really get what you do or get who you are versus coming from a place of, well, I'll tell them who I am, what I do, but they won't really understand, you know, that feeling or that, you know, that in the back of your mind you're kind of thinking, well, I'll tell them what I do. But they won't really get it because they're not an athlete or because they're not a coach or because they're not a. You know, there's that thing, that limiting belief in your head. So if we come from a place of really being curious about them and flipping it over and going, well, maybe it's not that they don't get me, maybe that's not what matters. What matters is that I don't get them. And maybe I need to put myself in that place. Place of figuring that out and really in a genuine, authentic, curious place. So that would be number two.

Well, that's. That's such an important way to be. Slash skill to have when you're done playing, when you're done playing, if you're. If you're forced out, unless you can have a job that keeps you, you know, you become a GM in your sport or a coach or stay tightly or Closely involved in it. What you're describing right there with your second point is absolutely crucial to enjoying people and growing with people in your future and for the remaining 80% of your life.

Otherwise you can't integrate back into the real world.

Yeah, you got to be able to talk to Muggles. You gotta connect.

Yeah, exactly. Okay, so the third one is, it's coming from any time that that fear of failure feeling, fff, Fear of failure feeling comes along. And for athletes or high performance people, people are so tunnel visioned into one thing, failure has to come up a fair bit. Because whenever you really succeed at something, it gets harder and harder to get to the next level. And you see that in physical performance or physicality in general, there's the law of diminishing returns. It's easy to get success in the very beginning, but as you go along, when it comes to physical improvement, it's harder and harder to get those personal bests, personal records, or that extra power, speed or that kind of thing. And the same applies to how you're improving in sport because when you get to that top level, you are fine tuning to the nth degree in order to get the next little edge or success that you want. Same true perhaps in business or other endeavors. And what comes with that is missing it, missing the progress a lot. So sometimes it's going to be a lot of failure in order to keep going forward. But as soon as those feelings come up, a key thing, whether it's your sport, your career, your identity in relationships, is understanding that that thing is part of your life and not who you are.

And say that again.

That's so important, making that distinction that that sport, that whatever it is, is part of your life and it is not who you are. And something that's worked really well for me to, to not get so caught up in my own career or my own business or working. One thing I've worked with, with athletes as well is trying a meditation where you've been taken some deep breaths, you've gotten to a place of calm, and then repeated I am statements. So you know, if it was my case, it would be. There's so much more to me than just being a coach. I am a mother, I am a wife, I am powerful, I am full of contribution, you know, filling, being very mindful, very calm, but doing an exercise of reminding yourself of all of the things that you are so that you can get back into that mindset of success versus feeling like you're a complete failure because you failed at one little thing. And that one little thing isn't who you are, it's just what you happen to be doing and focusing on right now. And it ends up feeling all encompassing. But you put it in its place, place and understand it's just a failing at this thing. It's not me that's a failure. It's not who I am. So that's the third point is, is understanding that your sport or whatever, fill in the blank is not who you are. It's just a part of your life.

And I think that is the perfect point to wrap up on is it's the one that applies most to elite athletes because one day you're not going to be good enough and you're going to get cut from the team and let go or you're not going to win the gold medal or qualify for the event you want to go to. And those failures are inevitable. They're going to come, they're there. You may be the best in the world right now, but it, you know, we all know that won't last. And how you deal with that, that failure and that change and separating it from who you are is so important for your mental health and well being.

Yeah, yeah. Really, really key. So we will probably be touching back on this topic because there are other parts of it that we can get into more deeply or share stories, but that'll be for future episodes. But we figured that this one could just be helpful right now for all sorts of people who are involved in high performance sport and because identity is such a big part of how we really get caught up in who we are, but it's really what we do.

That's awesome.

Were you going to do one of those pop questions?

Yeah. I think this is something we'll try with our episodes moving forward that I've got the book of questions here written by Gregory Stock, PhD.

I've had that book for probably 15 years, I think.

Yeah. So it's, it's a little dated, but questions are questions. And just to let you, our audience, get to know Kari and I just a little bit better, we are going to. Kari is going to answer the question on this show. I'm putting you on the spot because I'm holding the book.

Can't believe it. If you just to get a visual here, though, like, we are not in our office. We are in our bedroom and I am in the closet with the door closed and he's in the bedroom. So we're not even in the same room.

Just to try to give our listeners.

Yeah, that's Our fancy studio right now.

All right, well, this book has 200 questions. Kari, you are going to pick a number between 1 and 200, and I'm going to read the question, and hopefully it doesn't embarrass us too much, so.

Right, okay.

Number. Number, please.

73.

That's a good number.

Thanks.

Always like the number seven one I wanted with the national team, but you got nine. Well, yeah, I finally switched. Oh, wow. Here we go.

Oh, no.

Would you be willing to go to a slaughterhouse and kill a cow? Do you eat meat?

Oh, my gosh. Why? Oh, okay. So, okay. Okay. First of all, I eat meat. And this is something that I've always loved. Meat I like. You know, I like all sorts of meat. I love meat and chili, and I love bacon, and I love cured meats like prosciutto and all these amazing things that can come with meat. However, I have broadened my scope of consideration when it comes to food because of a wonderful vegan caterer that we had at a retreat that I ran a couple years ago, and she knocked my socks off with how amazing the meals were and how good I felt with them. And despite being on a retreat with tons and tons of work and hiking and workouts and all this stuff, I did not feel energy deprived or anything like that. So now, that was one point that really opened my mind to eating vegan in various ways. However, another. The bigger concern for me is. Is environmental. So I've really cut my meat consumption down simply because I feel responsible for my impact on the environment in the world and what my example sets for my children. And we have a number of them. So I feel like I need to take these things into consideration since there's more and more evidence showing that our consumption of animals is having a huge environmental impact. And beyond that, I'm an animal lover. I love dogs. I love all sorts of animals, and yet I still eat them. So I. I'm having this real lack of alignment here. So. So faced with this question, I've never asked myself this question, would I go to a slaughterhouse? And is it that? Could I do it myself? Kill a cow?

That's what it does.

I'm gonna say I don't think I could, because I don't think I could, because I remember when I was a kid, we had rabbits, and it was my pet rabbit. And little did I know my dad was gonna. My dad bred my pet rabbit, and they had baby rabbits, and those baby rabbits were supposed to be for food. And I was devastated. And then when My dad was supposed to slaughter these now somewhat grown young rabbits for food. He couldn't do it. So if my dad couldn't do the rabbits, I don't think I could do. I don't think I could slaughter a cow unless it was some sort of weird life and death situation that I had to provide for my family or, you know, some crazy thing like that. I'd probably have to. And then I probably mourn the cow's death or something like that. But, oh yeah, anyway, I, I would say, I would say, I would, I would avoid going to a slaughterhouse for selfish reasons. And those selfish reasons would be so I could continue eating meat a little bit longer. That's probably why I'd avoid even going to a slaughterhouse. And then if I was there, I would, I don't know, I absolutely wouldn't kill a cow. So, yeah, that's where I'm at at that, at this stage in my life and wow. Thanks for enlightening me on where I'm at in this stage of my life by asking that question. Oh my gosh.

Yeah. Great book, great questions.

Oh my gosh.

We'll definitely use more of these. I think it really just help give people insight into who we are.

Now this is going to be weighing on me the whole rest of the day. It's a Sunday.

It's things we need to think about.

I know, but that's a segue into some of the challenges we're going to in the new year. So keep listening because we have some really great ideas about 30 day challenges.

And 2019 is going to be crazy epic.

We are going to challenge the crap out of 2019. Like Paul. Paul and I are going to do a challenge every freaking month of the year. So we're challenging ourselves to the.

And so are you. Yeah, everyone's in.

We're going to get other people in. So we'll tell more about that on another episode and as we get the details sorted out. And thanks for listening, everybody. I hope you love this. I hope it's meaningful, helpful for you in having your best life and please pass it along. We hope to support.

Absolutely. Please share. Send us your comments@pdorksempowerconditioning.com we'd love to hear from you. Love to hear about topics you want us to speak about and please, as Kari said, keep supporting us. Share. Share. Share. Subscribe. Like post. Do it all. We need your help. Yeah, lots of love and we'll talk to you soon.

Thanks so much. Bye.