EP62 Kari and Paul - How We Up-Level

This is episode 62 of the Empowered Athlete podcast. Are you 6 5, 2, 25 and male or maybe 5' 4, 1' 10 and female? Are you a swimmer, runner, gymnast or hockey player? Have you had three knee surgeries like me or a shoulder that tends to get sore? We all have different bodies and it makes sense that we require specific training and adjustment for best results. Are you self motivated, ready for consistency, and want to follow a training plan customized for your needs? Maybe you are ready to be coached.

Being trained typically means you rely on someone to take you through each workout. Being coached means you are ready to do it on your own but want the guidance from an expert to efficiently get to your best results while still accountable. If you're ready to be coached, then contact us for an assessment in person.

Or online and we will make a.

Customized training program for you to get to your goals. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete podcast, created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others toward their best lives. Host by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Hey, everybody. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast. And it is December. Kari, I know that you know it's December because of our walk this morning where we were covered in sleet, ice and slushy rain. You love this stuff.

Not the sleet, ice and slushy rain. Thank you. But maybe some of the other stuff.

Yeah. Well, we love that it's December. The holiday season is nearly upon us and we are working our way into our final 30 day challenge of the year. The 12th challenge. The 12th day of Christmas. We're not going to go through it with a song. But what is up this month for the 12:30 challenge?

It's a swear jar. It's a jar. That doesn't have to be a swear jar. It could be an anything jar. But the concept is that you pick the thing that you want to change and then you put some money behind your words. So put your money where your mouth is.

Something on the line.

You put something on the line. And I know for us there was a point where we discussed, are we going to put in 100 bucks every argument we have? So if we can try to not have an argument in December and put 100 bucks on the line. But then we bickered about what defines an argument, so I chose swearing. So I got a buck for a swear for me.

Yeah, me too.

And then I got. I'm. You're cutting down on your swearing?

Absolutely.

I was going to say darn right.

I am.

Bleep. Yeah.

Bleep.

Yeah. Fire truck.

Cheese and rice. All right.

Okay. We're going to be those people for the month. No swearing. And then I'm putting in five bucks for any day that I miss a meditation. Because when I go for a few days without just a short meditation, my brain is foggier, my energy is lower, I'm a little shorter in my patience. So for me, I'm going to try and meditate every day for the month. Because that month that we did the meditation, the Mindful March, I believe it was, was fantastic. So I noticed differences then. So that's. Those are the things I'm going to do.

And that will be a challenge this month because we're going away next week. And that leads us into what this episode of the podcast is about. And you know, and I know that when I do it, and you do it all the time, that meditation is something that can help us up level, you know, get clarity of mind, perform better. And we are going to date with Destiny. It's Tony Robbins flagship event that he's kind of really started with and run throughout his entire career. And it's going to be six days of intense self reflection, self improvement, growth, challenging, getting uncomfortable and all those sorts of things. And we really wanted to use that as our kind of topic for the month and share for you, the listeners, why we're going and what we hope the outcomes are. Yeah.

In terms of up leveling, in providing value for clients, in providing the best version of ourselves, for our family, in trying to have the best life that we can have. I think that's why we are looking to create improvement in all sorts of areas. But it's one of those things that, you know, I think of this time of year, I think of winter, I think of, you know, when there's been a stale point or some things haven't gone well or maybe there's a loss in the family. Like there's a lot of times where it feels really, really hard to make progress or improvement or up level anything. Like it feels like it's treading water barely just to kind of maintain status quo. So things like this, events like this are this injection of massive action and being around people who are all looking to make big changes or make big progress in their lives. So they might be highly successful business people or creative artists or just regular people who really want to make differences in their own lives and being surrounded by a lot of people who are looking for support, positivity, like minded surroundings, then it really it really influences the change and the motivation and being inspired. So it's a pretty cool environment.

Yeah, for sure. And I think of it almost as a boot camp for my brain, that when you go in there, you know, you have training camps for teams that are physical and you're getting after it, just shocking your system. And I know my experience at Unleash the Power within upw, the three day event that we went to was like that. It was just so intense and challenging, but at the same time energizing and coming out of there on a high and just feeling like you had a complete reset. You know, hit that button and come out just flying. And like you said, it's the people that you're around that really help drive that. Because, you know, we've talked about before if it's your diet or different things that, you know, the way we act reflects those five people that we spend the most time with. And habits are formed that way. And so when you throw yourself into this environment of people who are hungry to learn, improve and challenge what they think and, and just walk that path, it magnifies and, you know, creates exponential return on that thing that you're seeking.

Absolutely. And, and just to give listeners, like, I don't think there's not very many people that I know who have been to a Tony Robbins event. I've met some people there. But just to give you, give people a, give our listeners a sense of what it's really like. It is insanely intense. Like when, when you're saying a boot camp for your brain, it's, it's. If you're not physically ready for it too, like I'm gonna, I'll give a little rundown of how we're trying to prepare. Well, first of all, I went to a Tony Robbins. It wasn't even a Tony Robbins event. It was a professional development event years ago, probably four years ago in Vegas. And Tony Robbins did, I think, a three or four hour segment. And that's just so minuscule compared to what he typically does. Like, he just said, I can't do the things I do in this tiny amount of time. The shortest event I days long. And when I heard that, and I got so much value out of the, I don't know, the three hours I had with him. And I was like, the shortest thing you do is three days. I don't understand. And I got so much value out of those three hours I was with him and my mind was blown and it was always on my radar. I just thought, you know, I'D love to do one of those events, but I always thought of it, and I don't. I don't know if some people listening are like this, but I always thought of it like, someday or, you know, oh, wouldn't that be nice? Or I wish I was one of those people who did those things. And that's kind of how I was thinking at the time. And then, you know, you and I had been through a really, really rough patch and we had separated for a period of time, and. And then it was really on my radar then because I knew that. I knew that my thinking needed to be refreshed, and I knew I wanted to let go of some just emotions and let go of some ways of thinking, and I didn't quite know how. And to me, like, I've been through counseling processes and therapy processes before, and I really believe strongly that they have very good benefits, but I don't have a lot of patience for those scenarios because I want to get to things quicker. And so it was on my radar for that upw and you didn't want to go. And I was like. And it was my birthday and it was Chicago, and I was just like, crushed. I thought, oh, this would have been so great. And it turned out that I took Reyna to a soccer camp anyway, but I thought, oh. And then another one came up a few months later, and I thought I'd ask you again. And for people who want to go out there and want their partners, partner or their friend or someone to go, like, dragging someone there typically does not work. So I wasn't gonna do the whole, like, I'm going and you need to come with me. I wasn't gonna do that whole thing, but I thought, oh, maybe I'll ask again. And I think I asked like a second or third time. And then. And then finally you were kind of like. You're like, yeah. I was like, what? What? You said yes. I was like, no. Are you serious? Blown away. And then. And then we went. And the first. And like, just to give people a picture of this, we were in a stadium of 10,000 people. We were in New York, New Jersey.

It's the Prudential center where the Devils play. Yeah. So it's bigger than 10. It was packed.

They were like, yeah, so what? 15,000 people anyway, for sure.

Because there's floor level seating. Like, there's all the seats are full, and then there's four level seating. Like, it was.

It was like, it was crazy. And we had some decent seats. Like, we were close to the stage, we weren't on the floor, but we had like great spots and, and that first like couple hours, it's, it's rave. Like there's music, there's like pump up, there's all this stuff. And I'm like, this is awesome. I look over at you, I look over at you, you're kind of like, like, kind of have that like bland judgy face going. And I was like, oh.

Oh.

I almost swore. I almost swore. Holy cow.

Oh, it would have been the first of the month.

I know. I looked at you and I was like, oh no. Oh crap. I thought he's gonna wreck my experience because you were so like kind of flat looking. And then I was like, okay, I might have to move away from him so that I can have a really good experience in this weekend. And so I, I was considering that. And then I look over at you maybe 30 minutes later and you're kind of into it and you're kind of like a little more upbeat. And then another hour later, I look over you and you're like right into it. And I'm like, okay, this is going to be awesome. So I stayed next to you.

Thank goodness. Yeah. Well, I just, from my perspective, I am critical and judgy and that's my default. I need to obviously work to get that somewhat.

But you're analytical and it's a, you know, it's a, it's the blessing and the curse, right?

Yep. Yeah. And it's like you describe it at the beginning as a rave and so people can think, well, what the hell is this? You know, like, what's going on here? This is just a circus. But as you go through the process, you know, and we've read some of Tony's books and you understand that we are such creatures of habit. We are so ingrained in our machinery and autopilot and our brains are doing that to conserve energy and just get through life saving energy. And that it takes these shocks to the system to get you in a state where you can receive some of this new information, actually process it and use it. And there's. So there's, it's truly the perfect example of method to the madness that, that everything that's happening is for a reason. The days are extra long for a reason, the room is freezing cold for a reason. It's not just hoopla, it's to get a result. It is to create change and to affect you and, and shake you up, shake you awake and really get you going. And it's awesome. And I just want our listeners to. I kind of want to hammer this point home that Kari, you talk all the time about self development and growth and how important it is. And you know, we, we preach it here and I just want to kind of reinforce that, you know, you hear it from the top performers in the world. And I had the chance to be at SAS north, which is a big conference. It's Canada's largest SaaS company, tech conference.

What does SAS stand for?

Software as a Service. So you know, if you think of Shopify or any subscription based software that you're using, all those huge companies have massive growth. Had the chance to hear Mike McDermott speak, who is the CEO of FreshBooks and he was doing a presentation just on traits and qualities of CEOs. And I had a transcription thing running on my phone and I screenshotted because he just said something that really landed for me and just reinforced exactly the reason that we go to these types of events. And he said, you know, to be elite like the CEOs. He's talking about the companies that he was describing. He said, I'll just kind of read this really quick. So it takes two things. And he says, okay, I think to keep in the role you need to do a couple of things. The first is you need to be utterly committed to your own personal growth and transformation. And he hammered this point home. He spoke on it for a few minutes about how to be the best leaders in business, the best worker, the best co worker. To take companies to a next level or go to the next level in any way. You have to be utterly committed to your personal growth and transformation. And the second component of that is that you have to. Sorry, just looking down here, but the other thing that he's talking about is just develop the greatest sense of self awareness that you possibly can. And those are really hard things to do. It's really hard to continually look in the mirror and see where, where am I lacking, what, what don't I bring to the table and to ask, and you know, he talks about asking those people around you and building a team around you that plays off of your strengths. You don't need three people in the room who think the same way. You need in the room who think different ways. And to be completely open to that and to challenge your beliefs day in and day out and seek that continual growth is the difference maker. And these companies, I mean these are the biggest companies in the world that we're learning from the CEOs from and different presenters. And it's just Goes right back to kind of the things that we're trying to accomplish with this Tony Robbins seminar or any other events or books that we're reading for that growth, that to get to the next level, these are the places you've got to go.

It's the, it's what we've talked about or what I've done short segments on in the Mindset Monday which speak to number one, it's a practice like we can't just think, oh, I'm suddenly self aware. Oh, I'm transformed or I'm enlightened or whatever it is. It's this constant practice because our brains are so, so hardwired to protect and keep things the same. And then at the same time, it's very, very challenging for many of us to go to a growth mindset which it's the things like I've talked about recently in Mindset Monday which are if you are thinking in terms of I'm only good at these things or I don't like criticism or feedback, those are very fixed mindset ways versus going. I welcome criticism and feedback because that's a huge opportunity to see where I can grow or I am challenged by the things I'm not good at and look for ways to learn those are different. It's a completely different mindset. And it's the kind of thing that as children we are literally programmed to think, well, I did a good job, therefore I'm good. So to always try to be doing being perfect or looking good or all of those things as children because then we're rewarded for that and we're looked upon fondly. Except that's really holding us into very limited actions and limited ways of thinking into our adulthood and we don't even realize how it happened. And then we start doing it to our children too. And really but teaching them that, oh, you failed today, that's awesome. What did we figure out from that? Or that was really hard for you, oh, that's perfect. Or you know, oh, you did that so perfectly, so well, so easily. Well, that must have, that must be too easy for you. You're so good at this already. So let's try something a little more challenging like just looking at things a little bit differently. And that's what this environment that we're about to step into is really primed priming us to do. And I can tell you right now, like I mentioned the previous event and then we did the upw. Well after that I did an eight day event, well, two events back to back and it it really, really landed and settled into my being. So much so that it's almost hard to. Certain things in my life become frustrating because I feel like I'm not moving fast enough in the direction that I want to go. I want more and I want to do more and I want to make a bigger difference. And that event, it was a life and wealth mastery event. So part of it was all about health and this is for my up leveling for my clients and what I how I want to serve the world in health. And the other part was wealth mastery. So really getting the money side of things and really understanding your money mindset and how that influences things and then marking, really getting a sense of your numbers and how you operate and what kind of, what kind of finances you want and aiming for those goals and that kind of thing. But it was eight days long. And to give people a sense of this, this one didn't have Tony Robbins there directly, but there was all kinds of Tony Robbins work in there and recordings and other amazing, incredible leaders and speakers and just expert after expert after expert. But we're quite literally putting in 16 hour days or 12 hours days for sure. And there was one day that had a break that was kind of a turnover day. But you keep going and you still have the energy and you still show up and you still have incredible motivation and you're not. By the eighth day, you know, I expect to come home and be completely exhausted and you know, people call it the breakthrough flu and this kind of thing and I didn't have any of that. And it makes you realize what you're really capable of when you're in the right mindset and how you're physically able to do the things you want. We are athletes and we work with athletes and a lot of the people listening to this are athletes. And there are so many ways that you can overcome. And this is one of your fortes as a professional and national level athlete, Paul, is that deciding something and then grinding through it. But there's so many ways in these events that you learn how to. Not necessarily you can grind if you want to. You can, you know, work really hard and be gritty and be tough, but you can also find the path that's opens up the ease and opens up more capability than you ever thought you were, that you ever thought was available to you. So it's, it's, well, it's like, it's.

Like you've always said, you know, you'll have an athlete who you know as their strength coach, that there's more there and they don't. So you can pull them through to that next level with your expertise and just knowledge of knowing really what they can do that they may not believe they can do yet. And this is throwing yourself in that same environment from a mental standpoint of, well, I can only do a 12 hour day. You know, after that, my usual work days, eight hours, I come home, I feel tired. There's no way I'm going to be working well for 12 hours.

Come on, you believe that.

So you have those constraints that you've just put on yourself that don't even exist. No, we just are there. Based on your experience, you decide, yeah, these are my limits, or this is roughly what I can do. And so it's that mental leap as well, of, no, there's, there's lots more here. And like you said, finding it not in a grind way, but a way of just a flow or just a positive state that, that makes it happen, not a suffer through it so that when you, you finish the event, you're just destroyed and exhausted. It's, it's not like that.

There's, there's a personal story here that's going on for me that has to do with this. And it's the, that I have nerve damage down my legs, both of them, and I have two basically crushed discs in my back that I've been told by surgeons and I've seen the MRIs that they can't operate on it. And it's basically like, you know, I won't be able to run, I won't be able to do all these things. And being told that by an authority figure is very, it causes belief, it causes a way, okay, this is the way it is in our minds. And I've seen so many clients and athletes go through diagnoses like this. And I've also seen crazy, incredible things. I've seen Paralympic athletes with lesions that, at their, in their spinal cord that mean that they can't extend at the elbow. But I've seen them. So they can't push a wheelchair because if you can't extend your elbow, you can't push a wheelchair. And I've seen their bodies morph and adapt to a bicep wrapping around the arm to start to extend the elbow. And I've seen people, when they've decided and they believe they can do something, make that pass happen to get to an Olympics or to, despite them not being physically the epitome of that particular sport or the what's typically needed for that event, I have started to understand through my career the power of belief. And I also believe very strongly in the physical properties that are necessary as well. But so personally right now, that surgeon tells me, hey, you can't do these things. You have, you're lucky if you've got 70% nerve conduction down your legs. Which is why I experience drop foot and all these things. But what he doesn't know, that I do know from an entire career of working with people physically and rehabbing people and getting them to their top goals is that nerve conduction and nerve healing can happen. It just takes a really long time. And I'm learning how to not only physically do all the things that are different that I didn't do in the past, that I really beat myself, beat my body up for a lot of years, but I'm also mentally understanding and embracing the process of what's needing to happen in order to heal my nerves and seeing the physical results that fuels my belief in, okay, I can heal these nerves, I can make a difference, to make something happen. The belief part of it, even though it's not the whole, is such a massive, massive factor in how this is going to play out, whether it's going to happen at all or whether, whether I'm going to go with the belief of, oh, surgeon's right and I won't be able to do these things at all. But I've now seen the evidence of working on this and when I can run and when I can't run and what that looks like and what the factors are and, and how my mindset needs to be and where my stress levels are at and how that influences things. So it's a huge part of the whole process. And it's that part that being kind of a stubborn person, I think in parts of my life that I'm practicing and overcoming. You should talk, buddy. Holy cow. Practicing and overcoming. But when you go, everything is shaken to your core. I know what we're stepping into. I have some of the inside scoops from people who have been To Date with Destiny, but we're stepping into something that means that we're up till probably 1 to 3am and start again at 10, 10:30 again in the morning, every single day for six days straight. And in those days, just based on the other events that I've been at, I know how many steps I get per day. I follow metrics on physical metrics and my sleep metrics and things like that. And I'll use a Garmin or whatever technology I'm using at any given time. But I know that in those events we're pulling, you know, those 16 hour days, it'll probably be 16,000 steps, maybe more than that also, depending whether we're walking to where we're staying. Like it's going to be highly, highly physical and energy demanding. And at the same time, the room will be kept cold and we'll be up and down from, you know, whether we're dancing or doing some sort of activity or whatever. And then we're going to be diving into these deep crazy pathways of figuring out our own brains and planning out our lives and deciding what the path is going to be in our lives and seeing and understanding what's holding us back within ourselves, within our own brains and letting things go along the way. And I don't know everything that's going to happen, but I do know that we need to bring like throat drops, gum and throat spray because we'll probably be yelling a lot. I know that we need to bring a lot of snacks because we're in a venue that doesn't have a lot of healthy things. So Whole Foods is nearby. I know that the room is kept fairly cold, but we need tons of layers because we'll be sweating but then chilly and sitting and all of those things. I know the days will be really long and I know that people come out of this event having really made massive, lasting changes for their lives. And this is setting, this is setting part of the stage for. I think it's a little premature to announce this, but I'm in the works of revamping, empower and planning for what that revamp looks like. And part of that is going to be amazing retreats that are health based and physical based and food based and mindset based. And there will, there's one schedule, then it's going to be in 2021 in February. And so this is part of us doing this is part of you and I being the best versions of ourselves and our relationships and me being the best version of a coach I can be for my clients and us being able to be our best for our family and be able to plan out our lives in a way that has the best we can offer for our family and for our best happiness as a couple as well. So it's just, it's such a huge thing and it's so I think because it's the end of a decade and the end of a decade for us, that's been pretty challenging. And heading into 2020, I love the 2020 vision kind of kind of way of looking at things. So it's. It's so profound for me personally right now, I think. I don't know how you.

Yeah.

Look at it.

Personally, I just see it as this vehicle that's going to help drive the things we value most. You know, you mentioned family and relationships and growth of work and your plans for empower and the timing of it. All of that is just amazing. And it's hopefully going to be amazing for you, the listener, as well. And that Kari is going to be bringing back so many of these lessons that we're learning to Mindset Mondays and just sharing these things that we're learning from all these top performers. We're excited to be able to bring that back, and that's a big part for us is to. The reason we do this is to share and help athletes and coaches grow and understand that we're not alone up there. We're all together in this. And. Yeah, it's just. I'm really excited for. For what's to come and for this event. And Kleenex.

We have to bring Kleenex.

Probably a little Kleenex. Yeah.

Seriously, like, there are maybe just toilet paper rolls. No, no.

Big roll.

You blow your nose with paper towels. That's not my jam. I need a Kleenex or. Yeah, yeah, yeah, for sure. So this is. This is one of the ways that we're looking to up level, and it's just really exciting for us and timely for us, and I'm sure we're gonna have lots to share about it, and we're gonna have lots to reflect, and we have some incredible interviews that are gonna be coming up in the new year as well, so. Oh, yeah, there's just lots of. Lots of wonderful things. So we're our big request for you because we're looking to up level. Our podcast as well is if you know a really amazing individual athlete coach that you think we should interview, by all means, message us and reach out to us. So that's. That's something that's really important to us to keep the quality high on this and this. The stories are just. I think they make a big difference for people's lives, for sure.

So do you want to wrap up today's episode with the question?

I'm just picking up the book. What's your number? What do you want to pick? If it's something you've picked before, we'll pick a different one.

Well, you just said 20. 20. Let's go with 20 or 200 if it goes that high. Let's go 20.

It goes over 200. Do you want to go 200?

Yeah, let's do 200. From the book of questions.

This is great for your awareness. In conversations, do you tend to listen or talk more?

Well, that is an excellent question. I. It depends on the scenario, but I work hard at work to not talk early in the conversation. I know that I need to do a better job of listening and hearing other people's thoughts and kind of actually weighing those opinions and valuing them before blurting out what I think is the right answer. So I think I definitely have a tendency to talk more than to listen, but I'm aware of that and working on it.

Really?

Yeah, I. Well, I don't know. Would you agree or disagree?

I think. I think that's probably true, maybe for work, because I know you have typically formulated an idea in your mind, and then I think that for us, for all of us, makes it hard to listen when we're already formulating our idea or our thought or our answer in the mind.

Right.

So then we're not really listening because we're busy thinking about our thing. But I don't know. I want you to talk more.

Yeah, I guess if we're looking at, like, our relationship or personal relationships, I'm the opposite, where I listen more and think in my head and don't share what I'm thinking. So talk less. That's true. So it really is scenario dependent or situational, but, Yeah, I guess. I guess I'm both.

Then would you say. Would you say you would have known that about yourself, say, 10 years ago or 15 years ago? Would you have said the same thing back then, do you think?

You know, I might have, but I don't think I would have realized how much it mattered. So I would recognize that I'd be just listening to a more personal conversation and not sharing as much, but not realizing that it's hurting the relationship by doing that, by not opening up and expressing some things. So I was probably definitely aware of generally how I was, but not the impact.

Hmm.

Yeah.

Hmm. It's interesting. I. I think there's going to be a lot of times over this next couple months that I'm thinking about 10 years ago, like a decade ago, because it's the end of a decade. Would I have. Or what was I like in that scenario? Or what did I think in that scenario? Because it's so much different now. And. And I think that's the point in life is to evolve and to grow and to potentially transform. But how how that affects the people around us is really, I don't know, Like, I, I think we can either grow together with other people that we're around or grow apart from, depending on.

Yeah.

Oh, how we're growing or how they're growing or what that looks like. So, so it's kind of an, it's an interesting thing. And that's the other thing too. And for people, I know we're wrapping up here and I don't want to get on another thing, but for people going to events like this and they start to grow and they're really excited to keep their progress going, maybe mentally, maybe it's physically, maybe it's their health, maybe there's, you know, maybe it's business, whatever it is, but they're excited to keep that going. But the people around them don't want them to change. And that's a tough thing. And if you're a listener in this, in this, for this podcast and you listen to this podcast because you want to grow your, yourself mentally or physically or whatever, but the people around you don't necessarily want to grow or worse yet, don't want you to change. I think that's one of those things that just, you know, you might need to just your, the answers will be there for you. Have patience, see what things look like and just do your thing. And when people around you see your happiness or see your progress or the excitement in your life, then likely they'll come around. It just might take some time.

Yeah, that's a really good point to finish on it. I'm glad you mentioned that because it is, that's a whole dynamic that you have to deal with on your personal journey is you are changing and it's going to affect things for those relationships around you. So it can't be overlooked. I'm glad you brought that up.

Well, how many times did I come back from various events and I'm like crazy over the moon excited about all sorts of things and you're kind of like, okay, great to have you back. Now can you land back down on Earth so we can, you know, get the things done that we need to do or, you know, you can, you know, stop spewing all this stuff that you're so excited about. But now can we do the logistic day to day things? And you know, it's just sometimes the energy levels are so different when one person's gone and the other person hasn't and then. But I can't tell you how far freaking exciting it is when we both go. Because we're both just. We come back and Maeve's, like, dancing up and down and pumping her fists in the air because she sees how excited we are and she's just like, this is awesome. You guys are great.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the advice they gave us leaving the UPW event the three day was, you know, don't go back and vomit all this excitement. And you've got to do this and that on, you know, your partner, those around you. It's, you know, if they just do your thing, be you, do you. And if they have questions, answer them and let them in that way. But don't, you know, don't. It's how I feel about religion, you know. Yeah. Don't force anything on anyone else. It's. Let them make their own decision. Take the information and run with it.

Yeah, exactly.

Awesome.

Well, everyone, we will be back on right after Christmas for the beginning of January. So personally, from us, I wish everybody an incredible holiday season. Wonderful love. There will be still some episodes throughout this month leading into Christmas. And but from us to you, just really absorb and enjoy the warmth of the season and getting ready and prepping and doing all the family traditions and the food and the festivities. And we wish that for all of you. Lots of, lots of love from us, from our family to yours, and we really are grateful for you listening in on this little labor of love called the Empowered Ethics Podcast.

Happy holidays, everyone. Talk to you soon.

Sa.