EP87 Kelly Fitzsimmons - Pentathlon

This is episode 87 of the Empowered Athlete podcast. To say it's been tough isolating, stuck at home, unable to see friends, or maybe more importantly, train, get fit and play your sport. Today's guest of all people can relate to that struggle. She doesn't compete in one sport, she competes in five. She's a pentathlete. It's Kelly Fitzsimmons that we're talking about. She's a three time Canadian champion in pentathlon. She's representing Canada at the Pan Am Games four times the World Championship teams, worked with the World cup team. She's done it all in pentathlon. She's phenomenal in equestrian, fencing, swimming, running and shooting. Basically, she's an international spy. But we'll get into that later. Kelly has been trying to stay sane at home during COVID and we caught up with her, had a great chat and we're thrilled to present the that to you today. So enjoy that conversation. It's coming up shortly. But before we get to that action, I want to send a reminder out that we are in the middle of the Empowered reset. It has been an incredible 21 days thus far of a 30 day program and the participants are breaking through to new levels, mentally, physically, with their wellness, with their spirituality and all kinds of realms. We're having a fantastic time and people are getting amazing results. If you'd like to learn more about the reset and when the next one is happening, reach out to us@info powerconditioning.com and we'll give you all the details. Now on to Kelly Fitzsimmons.

Welcome to the Empowered Athlete podcast. Created to support athletes in their pursuit of excellence and inspire others to toward their best lives. Hosted by Kari Schneider, coach to top performers in sport and life, and Paul Durden, former national and professional volleyball player.

Hi everybody. We're back with another episode of the Empowered Athlete podcast and Covid continues.

So our first question question for you, Kelly, out of the gates is how are you enjoying lockdown and what are you doing to stay sane?

Oh, that's a great question. I mean, I'm sure I'm enjoying it as much as anybody who's had to completely change their schedules and their day to day. And you know, there's things that I do enjoy and things that have been less enjoyable, but I have to say one thing that I am enjoying is actually just getting the opportunity to change pace little bit, especially after, you know, we had frankly just started our season right before this had happened and we were going into full on Olympic qualification, which still, you know, there's still four or five competitions left before the qualification was even secured for Tokyo. So everybody in my sport was really in, you know, top shape, ready to compete, just like, you know, getting ready to go to the World Cups. And when everything happened so quickly, you know, it was quite, it was actually quite stressful because we felt like we were in a waiting pattern, like did we have to fly out right away? Were we getting on a plane to go compete or, you know, was nothing going to happen? So for me, and I think a lot of athletes in that position, it got quite stressful because not only did we not know if we were going to compete, but we also didn't know how we were going to train. So we were adapting very quickly. You know, things were very ambiguous and by the time the CoC made the decision that Canadian athletes were not going to attend Tokyo, and then the IOC the next day of course announced that Tokyo would be postponed, it was actually a relief and just because of the roller coaster ride we were facing. And so I know there's been a lot of people that in the lockdown have been going into full on training mode, but I think a lot of athletes like myself, we've actually pulled back into an off season now because we don't know what the next season or what the next season essentially is going to look like. So for me, I've been enjoying, as I recovered from that roller coaster, I've been enjoying just kind of going back to basics and settling into a different routine and taking things more day by day just like anybody else, because we don't know what's coming next and we have to be a little bit more flexible. One other thing, I started doing some different things. So I'm on the bike, I'm doing Zwift. I've never done that before. I'm very thankful that my amazing housemates have a setup and they've been so kind as to get me on a bike for the first time. So it's cool to be a newbie again and switching mindsets that way. It's refreshing, isn't it? Yeah, it is. I mean, of course, you know, it was very be ready to start a season and, you know, not really know where what was going to happen with the fitness that I had. And I think that a lot of athletes were in that position, but you know, you still have fitness and you want to keep going. You're just not training at the same intensity as you were when you get it. When I was getting ready for a Competition. So it's been a bit of a change that way.

Before we dive too deep into what's been going on for you, explain to our listeners your sport. You are in the sport of pentathlon. And it is one of those sports that over the years with the Olympics, it's been threatened in its position in the Olympics. But it's been one of the long, long standing sports in the Olympics. A little more recent for women versus men. But pentathlon is one of those sports that is so unique. I think of this as spy training. That's what it is.

To me, it's spy training.

You are an international spy in my eyes. So tell us all of the elements of. Life. What did you say?

I said, you're giving the secret away.

We can't.

We can't let everybody know that we're really spies. But it's true.

Yeah.

You know, pentathlon, it's so funny because it's one of those sports that people always say, you know, I'm so sorry, but can you remind me what pentathlon is? And I have to say, don't be sorry. I understand that you probably don't know and I have to explain it all the time. And of course it's kind of fun because you can. If you wanted to make up what a pentathlon was and anyone would believe you, pick five sports. You know, that's your pentathlon. And I think everybody kind of has their own pentathlon that way.

First there's the trapeze portion. And after trapeze, you go right into hot air ballooning. After hot air ballooning, it's an intense run over cross country, but we have to jump bales of hay and then.

Exactly, you got it. That's what we do. But in actuality, no, we don't, unfortunately. That sounds really exciting. So pentathlon is actually one of the original sports of the modern day Olympics, which is why it's called the modern pentathlon. But if we were going to skip back to its origins, the Greek pentathlon, it was actually the event for the Spartan soldier. So the Spartan warrior had to, I might say this incorrectly. It was something like long jump, wrestling, running, javelin, shot put. Probably missing one more thing in that capacity. And so Fast forward to 1900. The warrior of the time was, you know, somebody who was the cavalry field officer. So this was somebody who maybe didn't have access to their own horses or they were thrust into all these different situations and they had to be ready and able to fence, ride a horse they didn't know, swim across a river, run, and of course shoot a pistol as well. So that is the concept for modern pentathlon, which the founder of the Olympics, Baron Pier de Coubertin adopted as the core sport of the modern Olympics because it was five rings, five sports and the complete athlete. So since then the pentathlon has evolved quite a bit to what it is today. Of course, women did not compete in the Olympics until I want to say 2000, which was when I first started hearing about the pentathlon as a young person. There it was a sport until there was world championships. We actually had a Canadian, Lynn, who won world championships. And I want to say 1983, I might be incorrect. And then it was added in 2000 and today it's one day event of fencing. You, you fence every single person that you're up against. So it's one hit bouts, it's epee fencing. For those who aren't familiar with fencing, there's three different types of fencing. Foil, saber and epee. We fence epee, which means you can hit your opponent anywhere on the body. Then we swim, we have a 200 meter freestyle, we get 20 minutes to warm up in the pool. So these are not, you know, they're not in succession like a race, like triathlon. Often people think it's triathlon plus two more sports think more like decathlon, heptathlon. These events are separate and they're point based. So then we swim, we do our tuner freestyle, and then we go from there to the show jumping portion, which is quite exciting because we speed date with horses we've never met before.

Okay, that's what I wanted to know is you don't have your own horses, so whatever event that you're at, they're providing the horses. Is that how it works?

Who provides the horses? Absolutely, that is how it works. So the organizing committee at the local event is also tasked with finding a pool of horses that can all have a similar ability to jump a certain course. The owners do show the horses a day or two prior to the event over the course that the athletes will have to compete over because we need to know that the horses in the pool are able to perform at that level. And it also gives us an opportunity to see the horses. But how it works on the day of is so the first events all get added up. So the points from fencing and swimming are cumulative. And then the athlete who's in first position gets the duty of drawing their horse out of a hat. And then athletes and horses are matched up from there. So we go to the riding, we get introduced to our horse, we get 20 minutes and five warm up jumps to get to know our horse. And then we head straight on into the arena and we ride our course.

What part of all of this are you the most nervous for? Well, we haven't. What's after the horse? Jumping. Hang on, I'll save my question.

Go ahead. Okay, yeah, no problem. So, so then after you get through the riding, then there is one event left which is a combination of two sports, the shooting and the running. So we actually use laser pistols so they're completely safe and we're not shooting any projectiles. And we shoot at 10 meters, same as a 10 meter air pistol target. And we have to hit the target, which is quite small, about five times as fast as we can. And we can't leave our station until we hit the target five times. So there's a maximum of 50 seconds before you will be forced to leave the range. But you have to understand that the athletes are shooting anywhere between 7 and 12 seconds per round. So it's quite fast. And then you run. So you essentially you run in, you shoot, you hit five targets and then you run a loop of 800 meters and you go through that four times and that's the end. And actually one thing that I forgot to mention that's really important is that they handicap our start times in the laser run. So if you are first and you are 10 points ahead of me overall, you will start 10 seconds ahead of me and then I will have to chase you to get into first position. So it turns out to be a really exciting format in the end because the audience can see people passing each other in real time into positions. And it's quite exciting. One other thing that our international federation has been doing and you know they will be doing for the future Olympics is housing all five sports in one arena. So the idea is that people can come in and they can see five sports from one seat over the course of the pentathlon day and not have to move between venues. So it's been quite an exciting setup. We've seen it run twice at the past two world championships. And yeah, that's supposed to be the plan for Tokyo 20. 20, 21.

No, we'll say 20. So yeah, how did you, when you first found out and first of all, how did you find out? Because I know there are some athletes who like how did you find out and what Was that like, for you? Well, no, I have to go back to my original question. What's most? I know what's most. Where are you most nervous for each of the events? Because that's just a curious question.

It is. You know, pentathon is. It's just such a big day that it's really easy to get nervous for the whole thing if you start thinking about everything that has to be done. So I find there's that component and that I really have to take one thing at a time because there's always a little bit of nerves for everything for sure. Even if you're stronger in one thing than the other, like, you don't know what's going to happen until that event is finished. Especially, you know, even the first event of the day when you get to fencing. And fencing is a long event in pentathlon, like, we're often fencing for like three hours. So getting started, getting in the groove there can be nerve wracking.

How many other competitors are there because you have to fence each one of them. How many competitors are you up against to typically? And is it different for World Championships versus a Pan Am Games or an Olympic Games?

Yeah, great question. So games competitions are straight to final events, which means they usually they max at. And so There will be 36 athletes in total that qualify. And it says unstable. You guys can hear me okay?

Yeah.

Okay, great. I'll just pick up again. So there's 36 athletes who will start the event. So that means you'll have to fence 35 times in a World cup format. There'll be a lot more athletes. So they'll usually have semifinals and say there's 100 athletes that are attending the World cup. Then it'll be divided into three groups and you'll do a semifinal. And then if you qualify for the final, which is the top 36, you take a day off and then you do a whole pentathlon over again with the riding. So the semifinals without the riding and the finals with the riding. So that's like two pentathlons in three days.

Wow. Out of all the events, what would you say you're the strongest at?

So my background is in competitive swimming. I grew up as a swimmer with the Cascades and Club in Calgary and in riding horses. So I started with my family as mostly as a Western rider and then moved into to jumping and have done all sorts of riding. I love horses and I'd say those two are my comfort zones for sure.

Awesome. Because you've had the most Experience with it. And it's also part of the fiber of who you are growing up and. Yeah.

Wow. Okay.

So I have a question. And as Kari knows and makes fun of me, I don't know a lot about animals. I know that they're very sensitive to your emotions and how you're being when you're in a competition and there's stress there and pressure. How crucial is that or how do you manage that to not affect the relationship with this horse that you've just met and you have 20 minutes to connect with. And you just said that you love horses. So imagine you have a genuine excitement to meet the horse each time you meet the horse. I'm guessing, but what's that like? And does that hurt competitors that you know, who aren't maybe have grown up on a horse like you have and got into riding horses later?

Yeah. I mean, this is such a great question, and I'm sure a lot of equestrians will be nodding their heads about it, because riding is, you know, it's one of those sports that just takes years and years and years for you to understand, because every horse you ride is different. And I've ridden hundreds and hundreds of horses by now, and still, every time you get on one, it's like a different personality, a different way of going. And in pentathlon, one of the things that happens is we typically will share a horse with another athlete, so the horse will go twice. So if you're in the top half of the group, you will have an athlete in the bottom half that will typically ride your horse before you do. And the reason why I bring this up is because sometimes, depending on what happened in the ride before, you have to figure out where that horse is at and figure out, you know, how you're going to build, quickly build a relationship with an animal you've never met before who obviously doesn't speak English, and, you know, get yourself over course. And at Pan Am Games this summer, actually, I had an experience where the. The person who had the horse before me did not get past the second or third fence, this horse was. He was a stallion. He was incredibly powerful. And it was. It was a situation where when I was getting on the horse, I realized even before I could try jumping or, you know, work with him on the flat, which means walk, trot, canter, do to get them going and see how they move. I needed to build trust with the horse. So this is something I typically do anyways when I get on a horse, but even more so in this case because I Didn't get to see that horse go around that full course and I didn't know, you know, what was going to happen. So I spent the majority of the time that I had just, you know, talking to the horse, patting it, you know, letting it be itself, let move and like not feel like it was trying to fight. And you know, I think that that piece is really important because you can't, even if you're a really good rider, you can't change a horse in 20 minutes. All you can do is figure out how it likes to go and try to stick to the good pieces. So that approach really paid dividends because we ended up having, we had a couple of time faults, but the second ride of the day or the, yeah, we played second story, we were in the top two of the rides. So it was really fun and it was incredibly rewarding to be faced with that challenge and then end up matching so well with the horse. That's huge.

That's huge. I come from horsey background as well. And.

Is that what it's called, a horsey background?

Sometimes people get it.

I come from a background of horsing around.

Yeah, you do.

Yeah, you're like a horse. One of the things I remember when, when I was really young because I was trying to understand how they learned, but one of the things I remembered is that their intelligence is roughly around that of a three year old human. And I've always thought that that level of intelligence also is like the, the unpredictability of a three year old human as well. So. And any of, any of my horses always seemed that way in that if they wanted to do something, then great, we're all in. And if they didn't want to do something, well then you're fighting this massive one ton beast.

So yeah, riding is definitely one of the most underestimated sports because, you know, so often I'll hear, you know, the horse does all the work and I'll say, okay, you know, I can see why you might say that. But you know, being a swimmer and a runner, I have to tell you, the day that you do pilates on a 1200 pound yoga ball that's jumping over four or five foot fences, then come talk to an equestrian because, you know, it is really intricate and when you have an animal that you know could do anything at any given time, you definitely have to keep your cool. And you know, horses are flight animals. If they're scared of something, their instinct is to run. So you know, back to kind of the original question too. It's you know, the energy that you give is the energy that it takes. And you, you know, you have to be confident, you have to be ready to execute a course and you have to be, you have to be brave, like no matter what. So I usually, even after, you know, riding horses my entire life, you do get that rush when you get on a horse. You don't know and that little bit of nervousness and my go to is usually to take a couple breaths and just say, all right cowgirl, let's ride. Come on horse, let's do this.

Can you tell us about, while we're on the topic, what happened in the summer of 2012? Oh yeah, just moved Toronto. We're committing to more full time training and your business work at the same time. What happened to you riding then and how did that experience, you know, strengthen you moving forward in different ways?

Yeah, well, I mean, going from talking about when things go right with horses, there's always times, especially when you ride for so long, things don't go right with horses because like we mentioned, they are animals and they can be unpredictable. And so in the summer of 2012, I made a big decision to leave Calgary, where I'm from, and move to Toronto, both for work and for sport. I was still interviewing in Toronto at the time. I had just landed in the city. I was really excited. I didn't know a lot of people. I had a wonderful teammate here, Donna Vacalis, who is a two time Olympian in pentathlon and she was really instrumental in helping me get linked up with the sport in the city. And I was two weeks into my move and I was riding with some friends of pentathlon and we were doing some jumps and I was on the horse and the horse wanted to take off a little bit too far from the this fence and I held it back an extra stride, as we would say in show jumping, meaning I wanted to add another stride before the horse took off and the horse decided to refuse. And then as it decided to jump through the fence and the jump I should say, and as it did that, I knew that the horse was going down. So I kind of, in riding you learn how to fall off horses because it's something that happens. And I kind of flipped off to the side of the horse to make sure I wasn't in the way of the horse coming down onto the ground. And while I avoided the horse, I flipped over onto my back and I heard my hips crunch against the ground and pop. And that was an alarming sound. I still remember and when I went to get up, I realized I couldn't. I couldn't get up. I was going into, like, full spasms. And there I was, lying on the ground in Guelph, waiting for an ambulance two weeks into my move to Toronto, and I ended up in the Guelph Hospital rehabbing and trying to figure out what was going on. I was very lucky. I found out that my hips should have shattered. That's what the doctor told me. But luckily my bones were quite strong, and instead, it essentially nearly tore my hip flexor and a number of other things incredibly painful. So I couldn't move out of the position of lying down. And I had to make that terrible call back home to say, hey, family. So I'm in the hospital right now, and I might have to come home sooner than later because I was still an Alberta resident and I needed to do the rehab there. So it was one of those experiences where you think you got everything ready and you're super excited, and then something surprising happens that you never expected, and there you were, back to square one, or maybe square negative 10. And I had to figure out the next steps. You know, was this idea of Toronto going to happen? Was I going to be able to train pentathlon? You know, what did that recovery process look like? How was I going to continue to do my interviewing in Toronto while I was in Calgary rehabbing, and then hopefully, eventually, you know, move back to Toronto and make this all happen? And I have to say, like, Toronto was also crucial to not only my work, because there was some great opportunities here. Well, there still are. But also to my training because it's closer to Europe, where a lot of our competitions are, and it was closer to a number of teammates who are training here. And the fencing scene was also really good. And I saw that as an opportunity to take the sport to the next level. Now, fortunately, I did. I was able to come back to Toronto and make all of those things happen. Not without a lot of hard work and patience, which I still think is always happening every day, you know, but it was one of those times where I was faced with, can I do this? How much does this mean to me? And what is it gonna. What is it gonna take? So how long did you have to.

Rehab from that fall? And was that. Yeah, was that. Were you questioning staying in the sport? It seems like likely your family was afraid for you, but where were you at mentally?

Was this.

Was this just a bump in the road for you, or were you really questioning whether you stick with it?

Yeah, I mean, that's a great question because of course, anytime you end up in a situation like that, you are always faced with questions. And, yeah, it was. I mean, I was questioning more so how I was going to make it happen versus whether or not it was the right thing to do. I think I always felt it was the right thing to do, but I was. I was really challenged with conversing with friends and family who meant a lot to me, who clearly were a little bit more fearful. And I didn't want to. I didn't. How do you say, sorry? I didn't want to scare them. And luckily, my. Who is incredibly strong and tough and optimistic was somebody who was like, no, Kelly, like, you're made of tougher stuff. Like, get over it. This is what you want to do, and I'm excited for you. Like, go out and do it. And, you know, having somebody like that in my corner and that kind of energy was really helpful keeping me on that path because I had the intuition that I was doing the right thing. But, of course, anytime somebody projects fear onto you, you second guess yourself.

I've heard it said that if we. There's a saying that I think Tony Robbins had said that if.

What.

What happens if somebody walks by and puts sugar in your coffee?

Well, it's no big deal.

Well, what if a family member walks by? Or what if that person who put sugar in your coffee was your worst enemy? Well, you have some sweet coffee. No big deal. But what if a family member or best friend walks by and accidentally puts strychnine in your coffee? We could be dead. And the. The analogy is that your coffee is your mind and your mindset. And even if it's your best friend or your family, they might have the best intentions for you and not ever be intentionally trying to sway you from your goals. It's us guarding our coffee or our minds that speaks to fortifying where we want to go instead of succumbing to people's best intentions. That may not be what we really want.

Yeah, I think, wow, I've never heard about that before. It's a really great analogy, but I think it's like, you know, we all have our own experiences and our own biases based on those experiences. And, you know, we can view a similar event in a different way because of that. And I think, you know, that's part of the growing process is recognizing that, you know, everybody brings. Might have a different perspective to bring to the table, but it doesn't necessarily mean, you know, that's what you have to take. And like, to your point, too, I think those family, friends and family perspectives are, like, extra potent because we care about those people and, you know, maybe we empathize with them a little bit more. So when we feel fear from them or we feel hurt or any of those more difficult emotions, we probably take it on a little bit more ourselves, whether or not, you know, it's what we want.

Yeah, definitely. So you have been sidetracked from Olympic qualification. Do you think this is an advantage for you right now, or do you think this is a disadvantage for you for qualifying for the Olympics?

Yeah, I mean, it's a big question. I think I should rewind a little bit and tell you that the same week that the Olympics were postponed and our season was canceled, I also sprained my ankle. So similar to 2012. Yeah. And it was not a good sprain, so. Which is so funny. It's like one of those universal things, just like 2012. Like, sometimes the universe is just telling you, like, hold on a second, Just, you know, calm down, stay still. But I mean, truthfully, I just wanted to heal because as the weather gets nice outside, I want to be running again. It's so. I guess I can't answer this question without giving context to my career side, because along with being a pentathlete, I've also, for the past 10, 12 years, worked as a strategist, both on the corporate and the startup side. And one of the things that we do in practice is look at futures and, you know, what is the future of something? What is the future of podcasting? And whenever we imagine futures, it's never a linear path, and in fact, it's never really one path, and it could be a variety of scenarios. And I think that for me and a lot of athletes, we don't really know what this next year is going to look like. It's a lot different than standing a year back from a qualification season and knowing that competitions will happen. I think there's still a lot of variables in the world right now. So there's several different scenarios that I have to look at as an athlete. There's the scenario of, yes, this is going to happen, and, yes, I have. Support and I can focus on Tokyo. And from that perspective, it is an advantage to have another year as it is for many athletes, because another year of training, another year of putting in the time, especially with the more technical sports, where it really takes time, or you can work on your fitness, your functionality, there's no shortage of things to work on in pentathlon. So it's all about definitely, yeah, it's all about time. But that is an ideal circumstance, an ideal scenario for sport. I also have to look at the realistic aspects of where I'm at. And I'm in a sport that is not funded by Sport Canada. My journey to the state has been on like self funding, crowdfunding, support from amazing organizations like Can Fund. And it is also reliant on how I'm able to figure out another year of Runway. And on that side, it's a little bit trickier because I have taken time away from work so I can focus on sport. And now with more time, I have to look at how the work and sport sides are living together again to make this happen. And, you know, that part is a little bit trickier too. All things said is I see advantages and opportunities, but I also see some big challenges that I have to figure out to make those opportunities happen. And I don't think that I'm alone in that as well. I think there's, you know, a lot of athletes who are now wondering what that next year looks like and whether or not they have support from federation support from Sport Canada, their partners, like, you know, a lot of companies are in difficult positions now and may not be able to fund athletes that they were sponsoring before as well. And that makes it incrementally hard. So, all things said, I'd like to be optimistic about it, but I'm also being realistic.

So how, how do you manage motivation? I'm just thinking of my experience as an athlete. There's periods in my career where I was more motivated than others, and I'm sure it's the same for you. And potentially you might, at certain times of the year or season, be more motivated to train in one fast of your sport as opposed to another, based on whether or how your body's feeling or whatnot.

But throw into the mix the motivation.

To drive the business side of your athletic career, of funding it.

Yeah.

How can you put a measure on.

How much harder that is or what.

It feels like to get the call.

From, you know, Jane and Conrad that you have some can funding coming your way.

How good does that feel?

Because just to be fully competitive, you need to be motivated as much as possible in every training session, every competition. But then at the same time, you're trying to motivate yourself to go out and make the calls to get support and to get the dollars and make ends meet. How hard has that been? And has there been a period or a few times where you said, screw it, I can't do it today or this week or has there been a patch?

Absolutely. I mean, this pentathlon for me has been and for many others has, you know, been a long journey for that reason, because I did start the sport in high school with some big aspirations and realized that I had to, you know, look at it as a longer term journey because of that. So I stopped during university. I started again after university when I was getting my career started, because I knew I could support it. And that was, that was great for a while. I was able, for a long time I was able to build the two alongside each other. But as you know, from high performance sport and when you get to the World cup, world Championships level, the athletes that you're competing against, you know, that is their full time job. And if you're doing something at, you know, a half pace to that or you're giving so much of your energy work where you could be, you know, napping or training more or any of these other things, you do fall in a bit of a deficit for sure. So when I made the decision to, when I made the decision to focus on sport independence last year, getting the call, actually. The Canada event where they surprised me with the. It was like the first time an organization had come through and said, you know, you are, you're an athlete for Canada and you need support and you deserve it. And I was, it was a complete surprise. I was in front of about 100 people I didn't know, and I just started crying. Yeah. I mean, to be an athlete for so long in a sport with no support and then to get that kind of support, it just like, to your point, Paul, was just, it was like rocket fuel. It was like, yes, I'm doing this. Like, yes, I can make this decision. And it's okay to pull back on work because there's people there like Canvan, who's gonna say that what you're doing matters and we're gonna help you. And yeah, it's everything. And that organization, just to like give some further explanation, they run a program called 150 Women. And I'm a 150 Women recipient, which means that the funding that I receive from Can Fund comes from other women across Canada. And I think that that's such an amazing message. Yeah, go ladies. Because, you know, even, you know, being in the business world and, you know, wanting to see more women founders and more women VCs, like, supporting, you know, other up and coming entrepreneurs, I just, I think that Ken's done An amazing job of highlighting that we really should be there for each other as, as ladies in sports. So that also meant a lot. That's huge.

Especially when you're in a sport that isn't necessarily funded or recognized by Sport Canada. And that's a hard thing to swallow that most Canadians probably don't realize when they're watching the Olympics and they see certain sports and certain Canadians representing those sports, they may not realize that they've. Some have been funded and some haven't been funded and some have been funded a wee bit and some have been funded a lot because of all sorts.

Of crazy different rules.

And it's mind boggling to know that your sport, which requires so much, it's not like you can go to a gym with a team and you go back to that same place over and over, you have to find.

Yeah.

The highest level fencing partners, you have to find horses, you have to find. And it's, they're not, they're not cheap either. So when you're self funding and you're working at the same time and you also know that other countries simply fund their, any of their high performance athletes, they're funded, they don't pay for, they don't have to. They have a living doing what they do and are fully funded to train full time. And we don't have that in all of our sports in Canada. So it's a bit of a shock to some listeners to realize that, but huge to know that you've got people in your corner and that's often family, it's often your own resourcefulness because kudos to you for your own resourcefulness. And then also entities like can fund who makes such a huge difference for the underdog, if you will.

Yeah, no, absolutely. I mean they are the ones that, you know, they're an independent organization and they look at all the athletes. I think they have over 800 athletes that have applied to the program this year and they look and see, you know, who, who's out there and isn't getting it and needs it most. And it's, it's really phenomenal. I know that there's part of that question that I didn't answer and that was the energy that it takes out of you to do both. And it's a ton. It's a lot working and trying to, or trying to figure out how to fund your sport alongside training. I can say from experience that fundraising for yourself and running that own little kind of like startup on its own, trying to figure out how you're going to make everything happen is way more exhausting than the stress of training and competing, which I'm sure any business founder can attest to. It's like you take that out of the equation and it's, you know, that knowing that you have a safety net, knowing that you have support is everything, everything for an athlete for sure.

So what would you share with a younger athlete coming into sport like yours where they've got to make it happen themselves? Well, I think tips to give them to better self promote, better connect with the type of people who might be able to support in a financial way. What would you recommend?

Well, Harry, you hit it on the head actually. The resourcefulness aspect, you know, in addition to getting support from Ken Fund, I've also been very fortunate to build an exceptional coaching and support team that has taken a lot of work out of over the years and a lot of work from this team. Like, I have wonderful coaches who have really gone out of their way to make things easier for me or, you know, financially easier on their own accord and I can't thank them enough. There's a lot of them to thank because I compete in five sports. But it really is especially in pentathon right now.

Like there's Kelly, take a second, name them.

We've got time, We've got some time. Absolutely. So shout out to Team Atomica and my head program coach, Darian. Darian Silk, amazing triathlon coach, was recommended by my chiropractor a couple of years ago as a physiologist who could really dig into the weeds on my sport. So Darian came in with an open heart and open mind about what pentathlon was about and he took the time to really learn my sport and learn about me as an athlete and figure out how we could tailor a plan and periodize and all the different things that should happen in high performance sport. But for pentathlon, given that I have exceptional training loads with so many different sports and work on top of which. So that has been, that has been phenomenal. Ross Restuccia and Monarch Athletics. Ross is a premier track coach in Canada and he runs a wonderful group of people in Toronto. All amazing runners and just the best running culture to be around. He's been a guru for me and he came onto the team last year before I went to Pioneem Games and has just taken my love for running to a whole other level. I also have to thank Penny Worthner who's sports psych. She has been, she's gone out of her way to really help Me as an athlete learn more about myself over the past couple years. And Penny is dean of Kinesiology at University of Calgary and she works with Athletics Canada. So she is a busy, busy lady. She's also a Olympian in track and there's so many people in the horse world to thank. Mark Hayes, Sarah Long at Kestrel Farms, and Beth Underhill, who's an Olympic show jumper as well. Her and her team and Mark's team have all been really instrumental over the past couple years. For me and Chris Shepard, the runners Academy, anybody in Toronto who's getting into running or needs some fixing, him and his team of Kairos and PCMs are pretty awesome. So I'm sure I miss a lot of people, but yeah, Pentathlon Canada as well. Ian Solner and Josh Reger Fox, both former Olympians, they've been my mentors. That's my awesome group.

That's amazing. Now, we've talked about a lot of the. We've talked about a lot of the struggle that happens in being able to do what you do.

Yeah.

If there's young athletes and maybe they're riders and maybe they're swimmers and maybe they suddenly realize that there's an option for combining those two loves in their life. What's your favorite part about competing in pentathlon? What is the thing that just keeps you coming back despite all the hardship? What lights you up about pentathlon?

Oh, so many things. Well, I think, like, when I was a kid, it was always, it was always really important for us. So when I say us, my brother and I, to like, try a lot of things, like, we were really encouraged to learn new things because you never know when it might come in handy. Which is kind of a motto for Pentathlon, as it seems.

I'm an international spy.

Yeah, exactly. You know, I think you hit the nail on the head earlier about resourcefulness because, you know, you have to create this network and this group and this team on your own and you have to turn it into working, Building product. Like all these pieces have to talk to each other. And that's a really hard thing to do when you're a kid. And I know that from firsthand experience because when I started, you know, I came out of a real high performance swimming program. And coming into pentathlon was like going into the Wild West. It was like, you know, there wasn't a lot of structure. It was. You had to figure out a lot on your own. And I think that that is where, you know, it can be Challenging for kids getting into the sport is just knowing where to start start or what the pathway looks like. Josh, who I mentioned earlier, Josh Riker Fox, he's an Olympian for pentathlon. He runs a pentathlon club in Calgary that's been doing really well and there's been more clubs popping up around the country here and there. And you know, I think that one of the things that's really great about doing pentathlon as a young person is that you get exposure to so many different things and different skills and different sports is really great for childhood development. But again, like if you're that kid who's starting and you know, you want to know where you're going, it's. You have to think long term, which isn't an easy thing to do as a kid. Like, especially when you want more, you know, some people want more instant gratification. And with kintathlon, it's a game of optimization. And the only way to play that game is to play it really long. Because if you're putting time in swimming, a lot of time in swimming, you're not putting a lot of time somewhere else. So every plan is really tailor made and it's not as one size fits all as much as it can be for other sports where there's very clear pathways of development. Like for me coming out of riding and swimming, you know, those were sports that, you know, they do take a lot of time to really develop in, but, you know, so does fencing. And you know, Fencing takes like 10 years at least to like get really comfortable in it because you're learning all of these different pathways and these different tactics and tools. So I think it's really just about looking at a plan with somebody who can help you and that you can trust and saying, okay, I'm here right now. What do I need to focus on to get this to the next level? And looking at those blocks of time where you can kind of make those moves up the ladder and often in addition to doing other things like school or work, depending on who you are, but it will take a lot longer than you expect. It's still taking me more time than I expected because of that.

Well, it's so apparent how you will thrive as a strategist as well, because you have the long term vision and you have the ability to structure it so that you create what you know needs to happen for the next step or the next phase, or the goal that's in the long run, or that triple vision down the road to wrap Things up. Today, we want to ask kind of a few of the fun, personal questions. Do you have some favorite go to music that you love to listen to, either in training or pre competition to get you pumped up?

Oh, man, I didn't even prepare for this question. So it's going to be off the cuff. I'm all over the place when it comes to music. Being an Alberta girl, I do love some Garth Brooks. I also love a little punk, Sometimes some Beastie Boys, sometimes some really dancy music.

Sorry, all the Beasties.

Yeah, Paul, he's feeling ya. If I'm feeling really angry, I might go like Rage against the Machine or something. It depends how I'm feeling.

This picture you riding.

I like music. That's.

Sorry, not pre writing.

Yeah, no, yeah, no, it's. You know, music can really change your mood and sometimes I find I need to come down a level. So I actually make playlists based on where I'm kind of at. Like, I have recovery mode playlists that it's gonna be a little bit more mellow. So, you know, it's all. It's all over the place. Perfect.

I got one. So I saw that your favorite books, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory.

On the list, CBC interview. I have a lot of favorite books, but that book, I do own an original copy and it was my favorite with Man's Search for Meaning by Viktor Frankl, which I just think is a book that everybody should read.

That's fantastic. Do you have a favorite treat, food, or indulgence that you love? Could be dessert, could be other.

What's there for you that way? Food in general? Chocolate. Chocolate. Chocolate. Chocolate, exactly, yeah. Chocolate for sure. I don't know why, but during this isolation period, I've been making a lot of pina coladas without the rum. But I wasn't making them before, but for whatever reason, right now it feels like it's taking me to a tropical paradise.

So, you know, I was expecting sourdough bread or something. It seems like everybody's doing sourdough bread, but pina coladas, I like the change. That's good.

Yeah. Not making any bread, unfortunately or fortunately. My brother is a pastry chef by trade, so he's actually the baker in the family now runs a brewery, so I'll leave that one to him.

Bakery and beer. That's perfect. You have the perfect people in your family. Is there any last parting words that you want to leave for our listeners or any young athletes up and coming?

Oh, well, you know, just don't be afraid to do something your way and to have your own path. I think that we sometimes fall into the trap of thinking that there's regular milestones that we have to hit and they pair with different ages and, you know, things, Things change. And you only can make decisions based on what you know at the time. And if you follow your heart and what you believe is the right thing to do, you know, go with that, work hard, experience the learning process, you know, dig deep, go deep into things. And if you don't, if you don't like something, that's okay. You're just finding out something new about yourself and you can, you can change paths. And the thing is, is that that's your path. There is no time lost when you learn something, when you do something that you're interested in and you follow your curiosity. And I mean, I think my path is. Has meandered and done different things and as much as there's been ups and downs, I. I wouldn't change it. Like, it's all been important for, like, who I am and what I do. And no new tool goes unused. So if it's a new tool or a new skill that you can stick in your back pocket, you never know when it'll come in handy again. So you do you embrace you.

It sounds like you've been loving the journey.

Yeah, well, I mean, like we said, sometimes it's really rough, but just keep on going. Sometimes, you know, you get to do amazing things like sit on a podcast with you two. And this is my first time ever doing a podcast today. And thanks so much for the opportunity.

Thank you so much for being with us. We love your authentic up and down journey that's going on because this is what people need to know about and it's so, it's so wonderful for people to be able to get a glimpse of into pentathlon when often it's just the exposure to the Olympics that they would even see this sport. So really grateful that you're able to come on and share your world of pentathlon and what it's like with the rest of us. So thank you so much for being on Kelly, and we will connect with you soon.

My pleasure. Thank you so much, everybody.

Thank you so much for listening. We hope you enjoyed this episode and if you did, please do us a favor and share it with your friends, your family, other athletes, coaches, and other important people in your life that you think might enjoy these conversations that we're having with athletes from across Canada and the world. Also, if you're looking for public speaking from Kari or myself. Looking for personal training, online programs, mental retreats like the Empowered Reset or anything else you think we could help with. Reach out to Kari and I at info@empowerconditioning.com thanks again for listening and have an incredible day.