Jackie Insinger - Author, Executive Coach

This is episode 190 of the Empowered Team Podcast. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast, where we explore how to optimize your performance in career, sport, and life. And now your host, executive coach and.

Life strategist, Kari Schneider. Welcome. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast. We are so fortunate to have here today Jackie Insinger. And Jackie is a phenomenal human. She is. These are her words. And I love this. Dedicated to helping leaders become extraordinary. Now, that is so near and dear to my heart. At the same time, Jackie has been an official member of the Forbes, excuse me, Coaches Council. She is a Harvard Business Review Advisory council member and has her master's degree in. In Human Development Psychology. So beyond that, and those are all huge accomplishments and big contributions in the world. But beyond that, this contribution of developing and writing, bringing your own ideas to the world of your book called Spark Brilliance. Now, my favorite part about the title of this book is that in the title, spark Brilliance, not just the Spark Brilliance, but a leader's playbook. I love, love, love that part. So you, Jackie, tell us a little more about you, and let's dive right in. Great.

Thank you for having me. So, gosh, I'm like, where do we start? A little bit more about me. I am super excited to be here today. I'm excited to talk about all the things we have in common, all the things that we're both doing that build people up in leadership, in their business, in their life, in all areas. And, you know, my. My angle and my passion, like you said, is, you know, taking leaders from great to extraordinary. I feel like there's a lot of amazing work out there helping people go from good to great, right? And then what happens after you're great, right, where, you know, there's this whole limitless potential that happens on the other side of great that we don't talk about very much. And I think that's where my passion comes in, is, you know, so many leaders work their way up and. And they're great. And then there's room. There's all this room to become extraordinary, and there's all these great, easy, simple, actionable ways to move into that space of limitless potential. And that's really where I kind of create my focus.

It's. It's so powerful to point to the what's next, because, you know, I'm hearing you say that, and so many people are striving for great, and yet you're pointing to what's beyond great because there's a whole other thing. And guess what? By the time you get to great, you're going to feel like that's not so great anymore. Great just became mediocre. What just happened? It's like magic.

Yes, exactly. And there's, you know, I think most people that get to great have, you know, the bar keeps moving. And so once you get there, then, you know, it's like, what's next? What's next? What's this next goal? What's this next thing I can achieve and check off? And so there's. And once you get there, you know, I don't know many people that become complacent that get to great. Right. So there's gotta be these skills and tools and ways to move past great. And that's where, you know, all this action and neuroscience and optimizing your brain and behavior for this type of success comes in. And that's what I've studied, and that's where I've really spent my. My deep work in figuring that out and coming up with, like, you. You called out a leader's playbook on how do you do that for yourself and your team. And, and to just, I think, give a little validation to where a lot of us are right now is, yes, extraordinary is a great place to be. And I think a lot of us took some steps back during the past couple years during COVID where neutral was a place to hope for, to kind of get out of the negative and get to neutral. And so I want to honor that for a minute too, is that we have squiggly paths and sometimes life throws curveballs and we backtrack a little bit and, you know, and we hope to get to neutral. And. And I think my goal with that is to open up the door for great and extraordinary from neutral too, is. Is just that there's no. There's no stopping point. You know, let's look at. At what's. At what's bigger and brighter.

It's. It's to that point, I remember reading in your book, just that people have. And I don't want to misquote here, but people having this tendency to take a look at negative. Well, the opposite of negative isn't neutral. It's the positive side of things. And yet people are going from, okay, well, if it's not negative, then settling for neutral. Neutral. Neutral will be this landing ground or this, this holding space kind of thing. Those are my words. But that's what I was gleaning from what you had described in talking about that negative versus neutral versus positive kind of scenario.

Right, right. You know, And I think the way I describe it is if you picture a number line and, you know, we look at the negative numbers and our goal oftentimes is to get out of the negative. But the, you know, the absence of bad health isn't good health, right? The absence of poor performance isn't good performance. You know, the absence of, you know, any of our things. Sadness does not mean happiness. The absence of it isn't. And so what we are looking is to get away from this negative. But we don't necessarily focus on all of the. All of the positive numbers in the number line. We look to get to baseline of zero, whatever that set point is oftentimes. But there's this whole world on the other side where we can continue.

I love the comparison to disease because it's, you know, people like to think that, like you're saying that if I'm not diseased, well, then I must be healthy. No, you're just not diseased, which would be that neutral point. And I've spent a lot of years studying the neuromuscular side of things or the biomechanics and the physiology. And then after a lot of that, started to look at the. The neurology from the psychology point of view in terms of coaching. So it just fascinates me in the neuroscience of what you've studied. And I love that comparison to the. The way we tend to think in. In as human beings, we. We like the ones and the zeros. We like this or the that. We like, you know, things that are binary. We like just having two choices and that's it. So do you think that that is part of what has us just kind of go, well, I guess if I can't have positive, I can only have neutral. Or I guess neutral is what I should shoot for if it's not negative. Like, what is it that. What do you think it is that has us tend toward that kind of behavior or thinking?

So what I believe it's all the way our brains are wired, right? This negativity bias. We cognitively default to the negative. It's just how you've probably heard this so many ways. You know, with our fight or flight, like when we were cavemen, right? If we didn't believe that that noise in the back of the cave was a lion, we could get eaten by a lion, even if it was a butterfly, right? So that kept us safe. And so our brains are wired to see the negative. Some studies Show it's like 50 times more powerful. And so, I mean, if you give a talk to 50 people. And 49 people said, you know what, Kari? That was amazing. And one person said, what a waste of my time. Right? Your mind will go just to that person, right? And so even the 49 people can't outweigh the one. And this is just how our brain works. And there's study after study that shows it. We default that way. So when you think about we default like went to bad health or that one bad parenting moment that we had, right? The one time we lost it on our kid that week, that stands out over all the other ones. The one fight with our spouse, that stands out over all the other ones, right? The bad feedback we got from our boss. All of those little moments stand out so much more. We almost don't even see the good moments. And I believe it's the same way when we think about getting out of the negative spaces because our focus, it's so loud and clear to us. And it's more about getting away from that more than let's move toward this positive. I think it's just how we're wired. So we have to set some balance, right? The more we focus on the good, the more we even the scales. And I think what's an interesting point on that is that so many people think, well, if I, I don't want to pretend that the bad isn't there and if just play pretend and put on these rose colored glasses, then, then what if I don't see the reality? You know, we're not wired that way. Even those of us who are great at avoidance, we know what we're avoiding. Like we know it's there. We're just good at pretending, right? But we're never going to not see the negative.

Well, there's a couple things to what you just said. Like number, number one is that pointing to, for people to really embrace that just the awareness of this, that pain or the suffering or the negative is a more powerful motivator than going towards the positive or the pleasure or whatever. That pain is a big, big motivator. But at the same time, we're getting all this information at any given time and we're not necessarily aware that that's the case. We're not necessarily aware of, of that going on. And then the second thing you were saying too, about how, you know, there's that one bit of feedback, that one, that one thing, and it reminds me of the saying of trust is lost in buckets and earned back in drops. And it's very much like that, that, you know, we just get that one piece of feedback and boom, it's. It's gone. You know, we've just lost all our confidence. We've given it all away because of the one thing. Oh, yeah, going, well, wait a second. You know, I didn't. I did all these great things too, but we don't remind ourselves. And then, you know, you went into. What it sounded like to me, to my ears, was, people don't want to sound delusional. Like, okay, if I'm going to wish for this or hope for that, I'm not going to be delusional. And the way I like to think of it is that, well, wait a second. I choose to believe that my child is going to live a healthy and successful or safe life. Let's say I choose to believe that. Well, we could call that a delusion, because I have no idea that that's going to be the case. It's almost if a client or someone I'm working with or a friend or family member gets into that loop of worry, worry, worry. I like to think of it as that misuse of imagination because we're just imagining what the fear is. We're imagining what the problem is. We're imagining what it is, but it hasn't actually happened. We're being delusional about the negative. We can be delusional about the positive. It's. I mean, I'm using delusional as a very loose term here, but. But the point is, is that we're using our imagination toward the negative or the positive. Now we can pick, right? We can pick, you know, like, we could go either way. So I just love what you're, what you're pointing to. On. If we know that we're going to naturally have the tendency to, and the research shows it's going to be 50 times more likely to gear towards the imagination of the negative, then how about we just indulge in a little more imagination.

Try to even out the scales a little bit. And you know what? I think what's resonated a lot with some of my clients around this particular topic, because I find certain people who naturally default negative have a hard time saying, well, I'm just going to think this thing that doesn't feel real to me. What I talk about is the idea of practical optimism rather than irrational optimism or emotional avoidance or a new term out there, I don't know if you've heard lately, is like toxic positivity. And this idea of, you know, that's not this. What we're talking about is Practical optimism, which is look at the thing. Like, let's look at the reality and then choose to look toward the future thinking, what are my choices? What are the possibilities here? How can I fall up instead of falling down?

Right?

Like, what can I use in this and believe in how I can move forward? And so it's not about denial, it's not about pretending. It's about looking at it and then choosing to look toward the future with solutions and positivity.

That's so powerful because, I mean, in my opinion here, it just is so powerful because of just the choice. Just giving people permission to choose when they ultimately are acting as though they don't have that choice.

And really they do do every minute.

Yeah. And that's so powerful. Really powerful. Now you. You have. I love this. You point to in your book. You have this. And I don't know when your aha moment was on this exactly, but the Platinum rule. And you explain, you expand on it into platinum wins. But this, this concept of the Platinum rule. So can you explain to our listeners about the Platinum Rule and just how powerful that is? Yes.

And I did have. I did have a moment. There was a moment where it hit me. But I'll explain what the Platinum rule is first. So we all know the golden rule, right? Treat others as we wish to be treated. And you know, that's a, that's a. It's a big rule that everybody knows. I believe it works in large societies mainly to teach you what not to do. Right. What things are off the table. But in real relationships, it doesn't work because who's to say that your deepest needs and desires are the same as mine and that you need to be communicated with the same way I do. And that when you feel stuck, that you want help the same way I do. Right. Like, who's to say that? And we all have our own unique lens on life, so it makes sense that we default to the only way we know. Right? It's our only way of seeing the world. But when you can expand your mind and realize we are all different and we all have different ways of viewing the world and situations, problems, solutions, all of that, that the Platinum rule is treat others as they wish to be treated. And that, I believe, is the foundation for meaningful and effective relationships is switching out of that mindset into what do you need? How do you need to be supported? What would be helpful for you right now? Right. What's a better way to say this? How do you prefer feedback? Right. Just asking these simple questions that we often overlook. And instead we're kind of stumped of like, well, that didn't go over well, or I tried and I don't know why that didn't work. It's like you just ask, right, what would be helpful for you right now? And start understanding other people to treat them the way they need to be treated. And as a, as a leader, I believe that is your most powerful tool, is understanding people on your team and what they need.

There's a few things there. I love the example you give in the book where the gentleman truly believed that he was giving amazing feedback and acknowledgement to the person he worked with, but they weren't feeling that because it was his version of what he would have wanted for him versus what she would have wanted for her. And it really, really reminded me of the love languages just being. So this isn't how that person, how you communicate isn't necessarily how they communicate. And so the only way it's going to land for them is when we get out of ourselves to learn what it means to them and what really is meaningful to them. So that was, you know, it's such a powerful thing. And it's funny because I almost see in reading your perspective on, you know, the golden rule versus the Platinum rule, it almost lands for me as though, you know, the golden rule is almost like. It almost feels like the prerequisite for an immature or a young version of a human to learn first so that they can start to evolve into then really being able to understand someone else is really have that concept of the golden rule first and then be able to go so much deeper to truly be the other person. And then that elevates them to perhaps a platinum rule. Now I'm. I'm. These are my own words. So how does that land for you when you hear your work?

I love that because when you were saying that, what I was picturing was like, when my sons were smaller, like if they were grabbing a toy out of somebody's hand, it would be natural to say, would you want somebody to do that to you? Right. Treat them how you would want to treat them, you know, make sure that they have their turn. Right? So you can see how the golden rule applies in that younger version of a developing brain where you can. You can't see outside of your own perspective. You're still learning what's right, what's wrong, what's fair, what's not fair, and, you know, developing that moral compass around that. And then you're right. I think it's a more Sophisticated version of. Now that we understand we're all different and we all have unique lenses on life, let's get curious, right? And I believe it starts with curiosity there.

How does that play into. You know, there are so many. There's so many leaders who might be phenomenal leaders, but they really don't know what it's like to be a single female parent. Or they may really not know what it's like to be an immigrant, or they may really not know what it's like to be. How do you suggest for those leaders to be applying the platinum rule, even if their personal experience of life doesn't lend to being able to understand that other person as well? What would. What would be some tips or ways that they can navigate that ask.

You know, it's so interesting to me, people, the questions we don't ask that are such simple questions, right? Like to say to the single mom who's working full time, what would be most helpful for you right now given where you are in your life? Right? What would be the schedule that would be most suited for you taking care of your child? You know, are there times in the day where you would need a break, you know, just asking these questions, right? What can we do to support you right now? What's the best cadence for us to meet that fits your style?

Right?

Like just being able to ask people questions that we just kind of come up with our own structure and assume it's going to work for other people. And I think asking is key. I have, like, sets of questions at the end of each chapter, you know, self evaluations for the leaders to do. And that always have questions to be asking yourself and the next steps to do with your team that are always about digging deeper to have that greater understanding and motivation to really individualize the human side. Right? Because as humans, we want to belong. We want to be seen, we want to be known, we want to be heard. And that takes the platinum rule even further. Treat people the way they want to be treated, but also value people the way they want to be valued, see people the way they want to be seen, right? And taking it further like that is, is about getting to know them and honor them and have that authentic connection. And that's your job, I believe, as a leader. And now more than ever, because people are leaving in droves when they don't feel that. Because we were noticing and realizing this. This choice. And yes, the great resignation is also a great reevaluation, right? And realizing, what do I want? And. And that connection and feeling Valued is key to keeping people.

Yeah. It's interesting because we've been doing a number of masterclasses on leadership just starting in 2022, and we've aimed at redefining leadership. So I love that you point to a leadership. A leader's job is to really learn about the other people, to value other people that they're leading versus if you look up the definition of leadership, it's basically a position, a title or a rank. And we completely redefine it in terms of instead of being a position, a title or a rank, instead being a way of being, being a clarity of vision and being an integrity of action. And those three things being what encompasses leadership instead of that position, title or rank. So a completely different kind of kind of thing. So when you point to the valuing of other people, the reason people want to follow a leader is because they see something that's possibility of some form, whether it's for themselves, whether it's for the future, whether it's for a purpose, something along those lines. So how, how does this all play in. What are you seeing in. Whether it's your, your research, whether it's your experience, what are you seeing in this, in this role of. Or in this environment, I should say of toxic positive positivity, toxic masculinity, in just all of what's being. You know, there's a lot of cancel culture. I'm using fad terminology right now, but how do you see this fitting into what the labels are right now or what's popping up in all these forms with our current way? You know, you talked about the great resignation. Basically people leaving in droves. So some of the current trends, the current trends or fads or nom occurs. What's your take? I know I've thrown a big wave of things that you hear. Yeah, I want to see what lands, what sticks. Yeah.

You know, all of that stuff I know is very scary for a lot of leaders and companies right now. I feel like there's, you know, how things are interpreted, don't always match intentions. And I think that's hard. And I think that my belief is when you develop that trust and that authentic connection, things change in terms of where. Where some of that fear comes from, from people of like, oh no, what if I say this wrong? Or what if I don't do this? So I'm gonna keep my guard up. Right. Because what if?

What if?

And I think that being transparent, being authentic, developing trust, the stat that always blows me away is 58% of people trust A complete stranger over their boss. And I see you nodding your head at that one.

Right.

It's nuts. And so developing that trust takes, you know, trust is an outcome. It doesn't just happen and it doesn't happen by accident. Right. You have to develop an energy and environment where there's psychological safety, where people feel safe to be themselves, where they feel safe to. To be courageous, where they feel safe to speak their mind, where they know that they're valued and respected for who they are. And I think some of those. Those fad words that are really defining a lot of what's going on right now and impacting so many people and jobs and happiness, I think a lot of those fall away naturally when you have that core anchoring the relationship, the vertical relationship, as Daniel Goleman calls it, you know, from emotional intelligence. He calls it the vertical relationship of, you know, manager and direct report. When you have that trust and psychological safety there, those things aren't in the front and center the same way.

Yeah. It's that it affords or allows. It's that distinction between fitting in and belonging. It affords the belonging because to me, if that psychological safety is absent, then someone's trying to fit in and trying to be the right way or trying to appease the people around them or do the right thing, quote, unquote, versus the feeling of belonging that I can be who I am, however I am, whichever way I am on this particular day, and I still belong because I'm accepted as for who I am and as I am. So it's. Yeah, I can really. It's articulating that. Those subtleties, those subtle shifts, because they're there, but they. They're the little shifts that have a really big impact that are really powerful.

Yes. And, you know, the business impact of psychological safety is huge too.

Right.

Because, you know, I look at psychological safety as not just providing an environment where people feel safe to be themselves, but when you do feel safe to be yourself. Right. The outcome is you're encouraging courage because that's where people feel free to take risks and say, I disagree. Here's another idea. I want to try this. I messed up. Here's the learning, right? When those things happen, when you have that safe energy that you've created on your team of psychological safety, the flip side of that is encourage, encourage. And studies show, you know, better decisions, more innovation, bigger profits, all of those are outcomes of this psychological safety where people can add their best ideas and their best work or say, I don't know, so they can get clarity instead of trying and not doing a great job because they don't want to admit that they don't understand something. Right. So there's so many benefits of creating that besides that feeling of value. There's layers and layers and layers to it.

That's so, so powerful because you're speaking to the return on investment where some people in a leadership role may have the mindset that, well, there's no time for this kind of fluff. We have to just produce or create the outcome. Whereas the reality is the return on investment is massive. To not have people leaving the company, you know, that's a minimum of a 30% savings right there or a 150% savings, depending on the position. You know, the ability for someone to. What I'm hearing too, with the better decisions and the greater innovations and more problem solving, that speaks to the ability to have candor within dialogue, to be able to just have the back and forth say what needs to be said because there's not fear about saying the thing and having a problem with it. There's. There's the ability for candor. So that's, that's so powerful. I love, I love hearing that. And I think it's so important to send that message in, you know, in that spark and that sparking of brilliance to send that message to leaders to go. It may seem like a waste of time if you have a traditional way of doing things that worked in the past. And the reality is that you're going to be supporting humans in a way that allows them to flourish. And all of a sudden you're going to find that those problems are being solved and the dialogue is happening and the collaboration is so much more fluid, really, really powerful outcomes for people in a leadership role who are very outcome focused, because that sometimes can get in the way of. But this isn't the outcome we need right now. We're not looking at team building, we're not looking at culture creation. We need the outcome of this. Without realizing that, okay, the team building and the culture creation will give you that in droves, in multiples.

Yep. And that's the thing is there's these, you know, people separate. A lot of, you know, more traditional leadership looks at soft skills versus hard skills. Right. And maybe soft skills. It's like, yeah, that's nice to have. But what we need is this, these results driven, follow me type of leaders. And there's so much research now that proves, right, that the leadership skill set of the people side of it and understanding how to motivate people, how to connect with people, how to celebrate their wins, how to find their sparks, how to do all of these, how to get people, I call it getting stretchy to take risks where you're bumping your head on your comfort zone without throwing somebody out into a fear state. There's all these things that are softer skills, quote unquote. But there's tons of research showing the ROI to the business. And that's why in every chapter, for those readers, I have a box that says business breakthroughs, that shows exactly the statistics of how will this impact your company's results when you do these things. Because I run into tons of leaders who are like, yeah, when are you going to finish with this fluffy stuff? Right? I actually have a story if you don't mind me sharing. It's an extreme story. I have a client who I walked in to do a team building event. His leadership team brought me in to work with the team itself. Engagement was down, retention was down, profits were going down and trust was non existent. And the leader sat back in his chair, just this almost like a snarl on his face, checking his watch constantly like, when is she going to finish with this fluffy stuff? What a waste of my time. And so he's the CEO of a multi billion dollar company, founded it himself, 40 years. He built this up all by himself, right? And so I asked him, you know, after the, the workshop, I said, you know, what's your pushback here? You know, what's to my approach? And he said, if I didn't act this way, I wouldn't be where I am. And you know, his success had validated to him that his approach did work, right? He was aggressive, he was confrontational, everybody knew where they stood, you know, and it worked in his mind, right? And so I knew this was not going to be easy. So I worked with him on little tiny shifts, like, hey, why don't we kick off this meeting with sharing something positive about your weekend and asking somebody to share about theirs. How about you let everybody speak their ideas first before you share yours in this next meeting. How about if, you know, just little tiny things and the energy, it wasn't overnight, but the energy started shifting and people started sharing and their energy went up and the vibes started changing until he started getting this feedback. He's like, huh, this is interesting how people are showing up and their ideas. This one's speaking up, this one's actually sharing this. We were laughing today and he started noticing. And over time, when he started implementing the system, he realized profitability. Went up, engagement scores went up, retention changed.

Right.

And even somebody like that over that many years was able to see with little baby steps, right. That you can change a culture and change the results just how you show up.

It's that it's amazing because when, when they can see the results of the small shifts and behavior change, then it's the exact same thing that had them do the previous behavior. It was like, well, this is what worked for me before. And then they start to see what's working now. And it's so, it's funny because sometimes the most resistant are the ones that flip fast and hard in their approach because they, they have the aha of going, oh right.

The cause and effect. Right. They're watching for the result. Yeah.

So powerful. So out of a more of a personal curiosity, what brought you down this path? You know, you've, you've gone deep into learning more about neuroscience and with relationship with the relation to growth and leadership. And is there something in your life that really had this be intriguing or a path that you're just like, I have to, I have to go down this path. Like what, what was it for you personally?

That's a really great question. You know, ever since I was a really little girl, I was pretty kind of obsessed with how people act, react and interact. And you know, it wasn't until pretty recently that I realized that it wasn't just like a kind of that one of those little gifts of trying to read people and figure people out and what would make people happy. It was also a bit of a coping mechanism. I was very much a pleaser. I wanted everybody to get along. I wanted everybody's experience of me to be positive. And so my coping skill was also kind of my greatest talent I think at the time of how do I read this, how do I fix this? How do I understand what people need, what's going to motivate them, what's going to create them to respond positively to a situation. And so I didn't really put that together until pretty recently, but I really drove hard down that path of I loved it and it served me well. And so I studied psychology at Duke and then designed a master's up at Harvard under human development and psychology, really in the cognition and interpersonal dynamics, and then wrote personality tests for a startup for a few years, really trying to have people have an increased self awareness and just started really realizing how kind of the subtle self awareness aha's was something that was so enlightening for people and they wanted more right and how people wanted to know themselves in new ways and have those moments. And that's when I just really dove into coaching and coaching teams and coaching leaders and interpersonal dynamics and really diving into the positive side of it and that limitless potential of it and understanding how the brain and behavior works behind that to make it very. To simplify something that felt very complicated.

Right.

And how do we simplify it into action steps that people can just take where they can see the reward quickly and feel that progress. And you know, progress is a top indicator of happiness and key to motivation. And so how do we continually make progress and simplify the complicated so people can move in that direction? And so it kind of just, you know, really naturally from, I think what I needed as a kid and what I loved kind of just kept taking me down this. This path that I still am really so passionate about.

That's so powerful. So powerful because. Speaks to an origin story of almost of a purpose that was succeeded so long ago and has grown and evolved into something that serves you but serves so many others. Because it's a. It's a larger. A larger picture thing. So it's so, so powerful. How have you. You said you. You have kids and how have you seen this in work, in parenting as well? We, we. A lot of our audience has. They may have a background in sport, often business, and typically some level of family dynamics. So they're usually looking for being their best in order to keep being able to give their best to those around them. And how do you see this from a parenting side of things? Looking through the eyes of a mother.

Yeah. So everything in this book, you can read it as a mom, you can read it as a parent that way and everything can apply to a family. You can read it. I've used with sports teams and same thing in a team, in a team dynamic, as a leader of a sports team, and then also just as a leader in your life. So looking at it from this lens of, you know, spark, brilliance is really about shining your own light and then using that light to. To ignite the spark in those around you. And that's really what this book is about. And how do you do that? Right? How do. How do you really shine your brightest and use that to elevate and it's a very clear, actionable thing. That was interesting the first time I realized I wrote it with angle for leaders and most of my clients are working parents. And that was in mind. And then it was interesting when my mom read the book when it was in A manuscript form. And she said, oh, I can't wait to start using this in my life. You know, I was like, wow, that's really fascinating. And she's not working. And so I started reading it, the manuscript, over and over from all these different angles and perspectives. Seem like, wow, this applies here. You know, I have a couple MLB clients and they're like this. Every story in here applies to the locker room for me. And so it's really fascinating to see how these concepts you can use in all areas of your life.

Yeah, it's interesting because people, you know, for instance, being an author, you're probably. I'm taking a stab here, but a lot of people and the authors that I interview, they're. They're really pushed to niche in a way that's very, very narrow.

Like.

Like promote to these people. Promote only to leaders of this specific gender position, whatever. And it. It's interesting because for anyone who cares about other humans or anyone who cares about growth, then it applies. And it's. It's like you're looking for the people who want to be the best version of themselves versus and really make a difference for other people. Because that's what I hear when I love just you describing shining your own light and using that spark to ignite those around you. It's that, well, if I'm being my best version and it's. Then it's going to have that effect on other people in some form or another. We may not know how, we may not know what, but that's exactly what will happen. And I really. I think that what you've developed and what you've put out there, because it takes something to write a book. It takes something to take your baby ideas and grow them into something that's actually meaningful for yourself and meaningful for other people, and then create a guideline that people can tangibly put to real use. So I think it's really, really powerful. How do you want to see your work in this book or in other ways, impact other people? What can you see as this being a real. What kind of outcome do you really want to see?

I love that question. And I want to thank you for what you said prior. That was really meaningful to me, so thank you. Thinking really big. If I was to answer that. That question in a really big way, I would love to see a movement where people believe in shining their light for the greater good and that they have the power and the opportunity, right. And the privilege to do that for themselves and others. Not the responsibility, but the opportunity and the privilege. And, you know, I think the way that, you know, the world has gotten a little dark in the past couple years, and it's been, you know, like, lights have been dimmed in general in, you know, and just, I mean, any, any area we can name any area, any topic, you know, things have been really dimmed and things have been challenging. And I think each one of us has the opportunity to say, I'm going to flip my light on, right? And I'm going to shine that brighter and I'm going to impact and cascade that outward. And we know from neuroscience, emotional contagion is something that we can't even control, right? In 33 milliseconds, we read and identify someone else's mood and mimic it immediately. And so when you walk into a room, you have that privilege of cascading whatever emotion you want to everybody else in that room. And as a leader, your power is at the top of that change. So it cascades out to so many people. And so, gosh, if people can realize that and internalize that and choose and pause and with intention, impact the people around them, I believe that the multiplier effect is so big and important right now to kind of shift the tide. So that's my big answer to your question.

I love that. I love that. What it really points to, too, to me and I, you know, sometimes I can't help but have my coaching hat on is that to me, this is your version of your room after great. So, you know, I'm. My imagination. I might imagine that, you know, it took something to grow yourself to great, to be able to put the book out there, because it's one thing to learn and practice and coach and do all the things and then to really put your book out in the world, maybe that was your growth to great, but what you just described to me is actually stepping into that gap of extraordinary, of exceptional, of really taking your great to another level. So, yeah, thank you for sharing your stretch, sharing your great. Is there any other. First of all, I'm a science geek. I love. I try to tone down the science for not to bore my counterparts sometimes or some of my audience. But they tend to eat it up, too. So I love dropping like that. You're dropping some of the stats and just the little things like that. Are there any other stats that you think people should know because they just are unaware of? You know, this. This has been shown. This is. This is a fact. You need to know this because it's actually that awareness will help you find your light Is there any other little ones that you want to or big ones that you want to put?

Sure. Okay. So that's a great question. Well, okay, I'm going to share a couple. The number one predictor of happiness and long term success are the relationships we build. More than our genetics, more than whether we are alcoholics, whether we were born in poverty. The number one impact is the relationships we build. So that's number one. There are some stats on a positive outlook that are quite mind blowing. These are studies by Harvard Business Review that show when you have a positive outlook, productivity increases by 31%, sales increase by 37%, profits increase by 50% and the negative impact of stress goes down by 23%. So those numbers to me are some of the most convincing numbers of. Well then why don't you give that a shot?

Right.

When you see those numbers.

Simple game. Yeah, right, right.

Why not?

I don't know. It seems like a no brainer.

Exactly, exactly. And like you said at the beginning, you get to choose.

Right?

And how cool is that that we get to choose every moment we get to make that choice. Even if it's hard sometimes. And for sure it is, but you still get to choose.

Oh, I think that those stats are an influence enough right there to, to step into your book to be able to dive in and see the tips and see the questions. Because if someone wants just that little bit, it's, it's the tiny bit. Even if they get 20% improvement on one area, it's going to affect all those other areas. So that just bringing the stress down a touch, bringing up the positive outlook just a touch, just those tiny little bits will make such a huge difference and those around you, which points to the relationship piece as well.

So and if you have that emotional contagion, right. If you do that, then it does that for everybody around you. Right. So you get to do that for yourself and everyone. Which think about the roi, back to the company, back to your team, back to your business.

Right.

It's a full circle.

It's so good. Ok we are going to wrap up here with just a couple of things.

Okay.

You, you are to me my imagination says, hey, you seem like a person who is practicing what you preach. You seem like a person who is not only diving into the whys behind it and the science behind it, but also being, having the ingenuity to create and put something else out there. What do you practice on a day to day that really makes, that makes a key difference. Something that moves the needle for you in Particular that works really well for you. What might be one or two things that are a day to day practice that you don't want to go without because it makes such a huge difference for either your mindset or the quality of your life.

Number one, hands down, and I'll say this is my number one through number five is gratitude. Gratitude is a constant practice in my life, in my family's life. We do for 12 years now every single night our family gets together every night before bed. Everybody shares three things they're grateful for from that day. And even, you know, my boys, they're, you know, almost 16 and 12 and they every night everybody's all in on this. And not only do we learn new things that help with connection and that authentic connection, but we end days instead of thinking about what did I not do, what did I mess up, what do I still have to do tomorrow? And that stress that generally happens at night when we start spinning, we end the day looking back and scanning for the positive. And that builds, it literally changes your brain. It changes the composition of your brain and it starts building those patterns in your brain of what's good. And you start scanning through your day for what's good and what's right to think about what you're grateful for that you're going to share that night. And so you start changing how you scan. And so when we do this every night, it's been the most powerful thing that I've ever done. And somebody's out of town or misses it, we text in or FaceTime in our gratefuls. And so that hands down, and that's proven research, research, research around how that, that is the most powerful way to change. If you're a default negative, default neutral or default positive brain, how you, how.

You see the world, that is a huge nugget for everyone to take home and try. And it is so easy, so easy just to step into it. We like to call it our wins. We have for our coaching group, we do a Wednesday wins every week for the coaching group. And with our, with our family, we call it the roses and thorns. Yeah. So we go through a little of that. So I love that. And you know, it's one of those things that from a selfish standpoint, I think in some ways, and a giving standpoint, we created the wins for our coaching group, but it makes us have to be accountable for it. If some of the people in our coaching group don't post their wins, well, we're running it, so we better do it. And so there's Those days where I just don't feel like looking for something that I'm grateful for, that's a win, I'm just like. And then I'm like, okay, well. And then it changes. It forces. Not forces. But I then decide that my brain is going to look for the things and I find them. We all find them.

You might.

Or how much we try to convince ourselves that they're not there. They're there every time, all the time.

Yeah. There were days, There are days where the biggest win might be that your zoom didn't crash.

Right.

But there's a win. Right. You can find them. And there's a whole chapter in the book on wins.

Right.

And why that works from a neuroscience perspective, having these frequent wins.

Right.

For your dopamine and motivation and momentum and all that stuff. And so these things are so important to have the cadence and the frequency of them to keep that motivation up. If it's so spread out in between, it's harder to get back up. Right. So that's why you need that cadence to keep you going.

Yeah. And it's much easier to fall from neutral to negative than it is to fall from a positive outlook to a negative or even a neutral. So really, really powerful. Is there any last words that you'd like to share with our audience that you think would make a difference for them?

I think, you know, I always bring it back to. It begins with you, and it's your choice. Right. You always have the opportunity to start this moment.

Right.

And it's always this moment that you can start to bring that. That optimism, bring that practical optimism, that spark of yourself and choose to be that light. So it always begins with you. And the other thing that I like to say is, you know, great leaders develop strengths, but exceptional leaders develop sparks. And again, that's your opportunity as a leader to stand out and shine brighter and help everybody achieve more in their own lives and potential.

I love that I have to write down the leaders and the strengths and sparks. I love it. I really, really love it. Well, I really. I am so grateful for you today in sharing your experience, your knowledge, and just your idea, your concept, this beautiful brainchild of yours called Spark Brilliance. Thank you so much. And where can people find you for. Where are your most likely hangouts for Instagram or Facebook? Your website? All of the above.

Yep. So I'm on LinkedIn and Facebook and Instagram jackiensinger. And then my website is sparkbrilliance.com and my email is jackiepark brilliance. Anybody can email me. I'd love to hear what anybody thinks of the book. Any feedback, anything, any questions? I love that engagement and learning more. Continually wanting to learn. And I want to thank you for, for having me on here and what a fun, what a fun conversation this was. And so thank you for bringing me on. I'm very grateful for you. That'll be one of my gratefuls tonight for sure.

Beautiful. Thank you. And and if people want to purchase your book, is there a best spot to purchase? Is it your website you would like them to purchase at?

No Amazon. Amazon's great. Super easy.

Amazon is where they can purchase beautiful. So spark brilliance. I love it. Well, thank you so much again. This has been such a pleasure and it just, it lights me up. I love this topic. It's so wonderful. So thank you again, Jackie.

Thanks.

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