Jordan Thomas Interview: Trauma's Impact on Success

This is episode 316 of the Empowered Team Podcast. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast, where we unlock the secrets of self mastery for leaders who want to elevate their impact in both leadership and life. Your journey to being your best so you can give your best starts here. And now, your host, executive coach and life strategist, Kari Schneider.

Welcome. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast. I am so, so excited today because we have guest expert Jordan Thomas and she's a psychotherapist, but more than that, she's really gone above and beyond. She's a psychotherapist who decided to open a key clinic back in 2020 called London Trauma Therapy and has really taken that to expand it because the need was there and so many people got the help, needed the help. And you've really endeavored to not only open that clinic, not only expand it, but then go on to help others, to mentor in places like Sydney, Australia, to really just make sure that there's as much knowledge and education around this area as possible because it's near and dear to your heart. So let's just backtrack a tiny bit because we've got. There's so much in your bio here. I could go on and on. Your EMDR training, your DBT training, your somatic experiencing. It's not just that you're a psychotherapist, you've gone really deep. You practice what you preach, you do the work and you keep learning along the way. So how did you find this path? What got you into psychotherapy? And then I really want to ask you some questions about what you've discovered with achievers and entrepreneurs and trauma and people and what's going on in the world. So what got you into all of this?

Welcome, welcome here. I've been looking forward to this all week and wow, so many amazing, so many amazing jumping off points I could go into. But, you know, to answer your question in a sort of concise way, I always knew that I was meant to help others. Like that was never. I never had to grapple with what will I do because it was always just in my nature to help other people. I always joke and say I think I'm drawn to human suffering because I'm a tender heart and when I see somebody in pain, I just kind of end up walking that way. So I did my social work degree and I worked in community mental health and addictions for so many years. And that's really gritty work. That's like roll up your sleeves and get right in there kind of work. And you don't have to be in that field too long before you realize that what you are watching is the manifestation of trauma, of intergenerational trauma, of societal trauma, disconnection, loneliness. And it's because of all of these experiences that I started to really lean into more of this trauma training. And it's really funny, you know how they always say, when the. When the student is ready, the teacher will appear? Well, I think for me, I had some pretty profound experiences later on that allowed me to become a very astute student of trauma because I suffered some pretty catastrophic events later on that really shaped the rest of my career, which, you know, happy to talk about if. If you have questions about that.

Well, I'm gonna.

You.

You're so courageous in bringing this up, because I think you're pointing to some things that you've actually experienced. And you're in the field of psychotherapy, you're doing community social work, and you end up experience experiencing some horrific abuse, domestic abuse and domestic violence in your life. And you'd had some childhood abuse as well. So this is something that has recurred in your life. And you're literally, from what I'm hearing, framing this as your teacher. Is that. Is that right?

Absolutely, a hundred percent. Now, listen, at the time, did I feel that I was getting an educational experience? No, I didn't. I, in fact, was like, why me? Right. Actually, that was a. I think why me was a. Was a primary question that operated in the deep recesses of my mind for so long. And maybe that's why I was always drawn to human suffering, because I was trying to alleviate some of my own discomfort through helping other people.

Oh, it's not just me. It's also other people suffering and other people going through these things. And if. If it's why me? Well, I can at least help these other people. Maybe that's helping me as well.

Exactly. And I think so many people who are drawn to helping professions actually have a bit of that wounded healer inside. So, you know, when I. When I started on this path, there was that pull. But I had this really pivotal moment in. In, you know, maybe about six years ago, seven years ago, where I had experienced very significant domestic violence in my life after quite. Quite a lengthy history of childhood abuse and trauma. And so, unbeknownst to me at the time, all of these patterns, all of these ways of being in the world, they were operating underneath my conscious awareness. And I was experiencing similar patterns in my adult years. This is certainly what I experienced in my marriage. It was more abuse, you know, more suffering. And I developed ptsd, very severe PTSD after I left my marriage because it was really abusive. And I was so fortunate to have been able to receive inpatient help. And I had this inpatient support and I was actually in the hospital for four months after this incident of domestic violence. And I remember thinking, you know, the, the night, the first, I'll never forget it, it was like the first night I was lying in my, you know, hospital bed on the crinkly pillow thinking, like, I don't know how I'm ever going to come back from this. Like, what's going to happen to me? How am I going to be in this world after all this? And I do think though, when life pushes you to your knees, you're in a very, you're in the perfect position to pray and to start looking for something bigger, for a bigger meaning. Yeah.

So this, so the way you're describing this, I, I, I hope people are really paying attention because it's so profound in that the way these are life altering times and when something like this happens and I've been through some very challenging things myself and the, the temptation, it sounds like, is really there to stay in the why me? And to stay in the because clearly there's, there's a pattern there that something either either our own past experiences magnetize us to another version of that, or it's familiar enough that it seems, or we stay in something that's a red flag too long because it's something familiar. We don't know that that's a red flag because it seems normalized to us from those of us who have had things in our childhood. So you're, you're in this position where it could literally be the cycle that just perpetuates for the rest of your life in victimhood in, as you pointed to earlier, societal trauma, intergenerational trauma. You have a child passing it down to your child, and yet you're in a position right now. And what you've done in the last, let's say seven, eight years is just profound in the kind of impact you've chosen to have for other people and the kind of turnaround you've chosen for yourself to really reclaim the personal power or your own worth that's always been there, but you may not have known it, or it just might have been displaced based on the life experiences or the external factors. So what in that, in that moment where you are, you know, you're hospitalized for several months and you're in the Hospital room, you're on the crinkly pillow, you know, so. So visceral. You know, you. You're having this moment of. And maybe several moments and multiple experiences of what does my life become? And maybe that turns into who am I? But what. You know, and I imagine it's not one moment, it's a process. But what pulled you through or out of that?

Love that question. So when I was admitted into the hospital, the attending psychiatrist who did my assessment, he said to me, I'll never forget it. If you don't stop drinking, you're never going to get your PTSD under control. And if you don't heal from your ptsd, you're never gonna quit drinking. They go hand in hand because we all, all of us, we develop these elaborate systems of coping. And for me, I very much had a bit of a double life going on at home. Things were falling apart, and my way of coping pushed through another degree, another certification, another this, another that. And then I would go home full of anxiety, drink tons of wine so I could go to sleep, lather, rinse, repeat. So when I had this information that I had to kind of literally reprogram myself, learn a completely different way of coping, um, I. I had to try to find strength and power from a completely different source than what I was getting it from, which was external achievements, validation. Validation. Drinking. Right. Was my way of, like, calming my nervous system down. Yeah. And this pushed me onto the path of looking for the meaning, looking for the gifts, looking for the blessings in the hardest times. Because what I know for sure, you.

Didn'T have boost to lean on.

It's like it was me. What?

And that. That's a challenge. Yeah.

Yeah, it is. And you have to find something that you have been so disconnected from, which really is like the divine that's inside of you. And you said it beautifully, your worthiness. I did not grow up in an environment where I ever thought that I was worthy. And as a direct result of accepting and consenting to that belief, what I saw in my life was constant reinforcements that I also was not worthy to receive. And so my healing was really coming back to that true understanding that there is no degree, there is no financial amount of money, there is no peer group, there is no speaking engagement that is ever going to fill the hole in the soul. Only I can do that. Only me acknowledging and accepting that, that I am beautiful and divinely made, is ever going to give me that. And to be honest, that's the foundation that I built every good thing in my Life on.

It's. It's so, it's so amazing. I love the, the phrase. You said hole in the soul that no, you know, it's. No external thing is going to. It's going to fill that hole in the soul. And you'd also said, I just want to draw people's attention to this, is that you said something like, I. I accept and consent to my worthiness. It's to me, when I hear that I'm hearing, okay, the concept. It's like we can understand the concept our, Our knowledge of, oh, I'm worthy. But then when you said, I consent to, to me, I'm hearing, I'm going to choose to agree and embody that. So, so it's not just that I accept the concept of, okay, I'm worthy. And people talk about worthiness and okay, I, I guess I can be worthy too. But it's the, it's an act or an action of, okay, I'm going to consent to this. I'm going to actively agree to it and then take action upon the notion the, the reality that I always was worthy. And now I'm going to live into that by consenting to it actively. So I, I hear this reinforcement, and maybe that's not the exact intention, but I hear this reinforcement into accepting worthiness with, with the consenting. The real action of. It's like, sign on the dotted line. This is who I am. I am embodying this. It's not just something I get the concept of.

Yeah, I, yeah, I love that summary. And, you know, ultimately we have to start taking responsibility and, and, and consenting or rejecting beliefs and identities that either serve or don't serve us. One of the things that I went through was I was accepting this victim mentality. And I want to really tread carefully here because there are people that are going through, you know, recent traumas, and they might not be here yet, and that's okay. But there's also a lot of people that are listening that are at this point. And there's, you know, these victim stories that operate so deep in the recesses of our mind, and we give our power away to everybody that we feel has wronged us. And it actually, it makes us sick and disconnected and isolated and lonely. And the way out of that is that responsibility. And it's the connection and it's the honesty and it's the understanding that we have to agree or consent to the person that we would like to become and agree and consent to the emotions and the behaviors and the actions and the Feelings that, that healed and whole version of us would be doing or, you know, saying or, or thinking or feeling. And it's difficult. It's, it's, it's not, you know, it. And, and it's. When it's the hardest, it matters the most.

Yeah. And. And now I was just gonna say for, for many people, they're so deeply embedded into who they think they're supposed to be or who they believe that they are. A concept of, oh, I'm going to agree to act like or be the person I intend to become. That kind of sounds confusing for so many people because they're like, no, I'm. I just am who I am. And, and they don't quite have that. And I, I don't mean to sound. Because I think we've all been through this in some form or another where I can remember many times in my life, well, this is just who I am and nothing's going to change this and yada, yada. And, and when in reality, it's, it's, it's a construct that either came before I could remember or that I developed in order to thrive in certain environments or developed in order to survive certain environments. And so then I think it's who I am, but in reality it's just who I became because of certain situations or what I chose at a given time, sometimes unknowingly. So this concept for people to be proactive in that versus reactive in that can be kind of mind blowing. Like, wait a second. So I can say that I'm going to act like this and be like this because that's who I want to become. And that's just, you know, the way it is. It sounds so simple. But then as you point out, in the areas that matter the most, those are typically the ones that are most deeply ingrained and hardest to undo because there's so much. Whether it's subconscious, whether it's unconscious, whether it's ego, what, whatever it is. And, and these are a lot of. I'm not the psychotherapist, I'm a coach. So I mean, I'm throwing around terms that, that are used in your realm, but when, when we really start to face who we are and who we want to be and who we've been, and if it's not who we thought or who we want to be, then it's, it's life altering. It's, it's a, it's a different game because we can change who we are and we can decide who we're going to Be. And we can release, reject old things, and we can consent to either things that we haven't allowed or to new things. So it's a very. I love just how you're positioning this because you, as the expert, you know, people get to toy with these ideas and know that, oh, okay, this. This is. This is a thing. This is not just. Just fantasy, if you will.

It really is a thing. And. And I'll go even one step further. I'll say this, that I think it's the thing. And where I think that a lot of the traditional therapy really fails people is that, you know, we're. We're so heavily regulated and for so many great reasons. I mean, we need to be regulated as a profession. We. We're working with people that are vulnerable. But it's. When we continue to see people as vulnerable, as victims, as perpetrated against. And we don't remind them of their innate power and their, you know, their sovereignty and their divinity, we actually reinforce. Right? We inadvertently, with intentions, we only want to help. We don't want to harm, but we can actually keep our clients stuck. Right? And there's a. There's a point. There's a dance, there's a beautiful art to therapy, and it's to know when to push, and it's to know when to step back. And I think that so many therapists, particularly in this field of trauma, are just stepping back. And. And that's probably for lots of different reasons, but we're so much more powerful than we even have a clue about. There's so much more available to us than we know. And the other thing that I think is so important for anybody listening who might be going through a difficult time or has, you know, or as they're. As they're listening to this, it's like part of their soul is waking up. Like, whoa, pay attention. I think that some of this is going on in here. I want people to really understand this. This is so important. The. The potential benefit is usually equal to the burden that you're feeling. What I mean is, if you're listening to this and you're just in it, you're up to your eyeballs in. In the thing, right? It feels like your challenge is insurmountable, or you've gotten the. The news from the doctor or you've lost the relationship, or your finances are terrifying or whatever it is, whatever that challenge is. When you look at these things as initiations, as an. An opportunity, something's calling the highest version of your soul forward. So something is Saying, like, wake, you've got work to do. When you start to see it like that and you take responsibility for it and you do these, you know, consenting and acting and living. In the end, the potential benefit will match the burden. And so, you know, it's the seeds of. I always think that, you know, people often won't, won't ask for help or call in, you know, a power greater when things are going well. They just forget about it. But when we're like, you know, backed into the corner and we're waiting for the, you know, test results or we're trying to get that deal, the first thing we do, come on, God, come through, come through for me. And I like to think that God is like the gift of desperation, right? Like, we have these moments where we're so, you know, looking for something that's, that's the, when your back's against the wall, you have a real opportunity in front of you to experience blessings.

I love that. I love that. And really, you know, there's, I've often coached on a, on a parameter of life being 50, 50. Life has always been 5050. There is always been as much pain as joy as whatever. But we try to make it something that it's not versus embracing some of the pain that's there. Because when we actually accept the pain or accept the reality, we're. We get to experience more of the bliss and the joy and the, the whatever and, and this concept of the, the potential benefit is equal to the burden. It's. It. I think it's really, I think it's really powerful for someone to be able to embrace that as long as they aren't sitting around waiting for the benefit to come on. Oh, this burden's really big now. Where's my, where's my benefit from this? Like, it's that journey of learning and figuring themselves out or healing themselves or overcoming whatever has been holding them back that really gets to the potential benefit, which is, is equal to or greater than the potential burden. And so I want to speak to that for a second because I've noticed in the works that I do in working with high achievers, overachievers, entrepreneurs, business leaders, CEOs, high level coaches, just people who have been go, they're go getters. They're up to a lot of things. What have you seen in the research in your practice? What have you seen with that relationship of achievers and trauma? Are there typically larger traumas? Does. Is that something that people who are prone to become achievers? Are they Trying to outrun the, the burden of the past trauma. What, what do you. I've just noticed that for myself and for a lot of people that I've interacted with who are overachievers, there's a level of making up for where they might not feel that they are enough because of some life experiences perhaps. So what's your take on that?

Yeah, I love that. You know, I don't think that there is a blanket statement. Certainly it's not that the research is saying people who become really successful, you know, 90x percent of them have significant trauma. The reality is, is that none of us get through life unscathed. And if you don't have trauma now, you're probably going to at some point. Right. Like, life can be traumatic. We get these events that happen. It's what I, you know, at the end, you know, when I, when I was still seeing my own clients one to one, I worked a lot with surgeons and first responders. So very, you know, high achievers. There's kind of like there's a house on fire and there's sort of two responses. You got people that are running into the house to save the people and you got people that are running for their lives. Right. And so the people that I worked with were going into the home and one thing that I noticed that was very consistent is a lot of their achievements were based in lack. So really pushing, pushing, striving to try to fill that, you know, that like I was talking about the fill the hole, you know, I'm going to feel better when things will be okay, when if I only get to this achievement, then I'll be fine, then I'll be somebody, then it will have been worth it and I'll make so and so proud. And so that is a very effective strategy and definitely a strategy that our society rewards. The problem is when you lie your head down at night, it's you and you. And so there needs to be a balance where you shift from. I'm going to do this so that I can, you know, heal the wounded boy in me or finally feel safe or finally feel enough when you're able to shift to. I'm going to step all the way into the gifts that I've been given. I'm going to make every bit of my life count so that on my deathbed I'll look back and I'll know, like, I really gave it. Like I had these gifts, I had these talents and I just stepped forward all the way into them to serve and to give back. And boy, was it nourishing because I'm worthy, not because I'm trying to prove to myself that I am. I think that's the huge. That's, that's like the new level unlocked. That's the freedom when we're able to get there. Because when we get there, then we're giving and we're acting in a way that feels energizing and working out instead of feeling like we're getting drained.

That's exactly what I was going to say. That's the exact thought that I had when you described doing these things because I am worthy, not because I'm trying to prove that I am. And, and I've certainly experienced that in various times in my life where it's like, I'm giving and I'm giving and I'm giving. Why do I feel so exhausted? Why am I burnt out? Why am I. Because I love giving and I love those things. However, there's something that's. And it's because there's, there's along the way, there's not that. That feeling of, of helping myself along with helping everyone else. Everyone else becomes more important because they're more important than I am. And when you start to understand your own worth, you don't set sacrifice yourself for others. You will do all the things for others, but you're also making sure that you are cared for just as you would care for someone else versus constantly putting someone else's importance over your own and then wondering why there's some level of drain over time or resentment, even when people, even people may not even appreciate the efforts when ultimately it's. It was your decision. And so you're. You end up somehow turning into a victim again, even though you were doing the things and, and I've definitely experienced that and then gone, wait a second, what, what's happening here? And that, that, that version of me in the past as an overachiever over performer, contorting myself to make all the things happen. That version didn't understand at the time that it was coming from a lack of worth. And I would suggest that so many of the achievers that, that I've known personally or interacted with professionally don't feel at all like a victim at the time. But then there are signs almost like these byproducts of victimhood which are the resentment, the burnout, the illness, the whatever, all the other things. And then you start to go, oh, if, if somebody's built a business to an insane amount, but their family has gone down the tubes or Their health has gone down the tubes. That's just another version of I'm not worthy. It's just another version of I am a victim. What am I a victim to? I'm a victim to being a slave to my business instead of fulfilling or creating the life that I'm meant to live. So it, it's, it's disguised. And I, I position it that way. So the traumas, the victimhood, the worthiness, I position it in that way because I have a sense that there's people listening on this podcast who won't recognize their own victimhood because they're such an achiever that it's, it's literally layered behind accomplishment after accomplishment after accomplishment. And then they wonder why I'm feeling so empty and why my marriage is down the tubes, or I'm disconnected with my children, or I got all the things and the money, but it feels empty or whatever.

It is so true. And you know what came up for me? And this is my really, this is. I'm going to go at a very place I wasn't planning on going. But I'm going to tell you something that might be really surprising. So when we're giving because we need the validation, when we're like doing that, people pleasing, when we're like going the extra mile and because that's the identity that we need to have, it is actually the height of selfishness. It is so selfish. And, and, and like any people pleaser that you say you are being manipulative and selfish, they will be shocked and offended.

Yeah.

Here's how this breaks down, right?

Yeah.

People pleaser. And I'm contorting myself to fit you. And I'm being who you want me to be. Why are we doing that? I'm doing that because I can't feel good unless you like me. So in order for me to get the emotion that I want, I want me, right? It's all about me. I'm going to do whatever. You're a byproduct. You could be the girl next door or the girl five doors down from them. It doesn't matter. I'm going to do whatever I need to do. So I get the feeling that I want. It's all about me. I'm not okay to sit in the discomfort. I can't tolerate it if you don't like me. So I'm going to make sure that you do because it's about me. And those are the people and we've all been this person. There's not.

I don't want to other.

Anybody.

No, no, I've been there. I've been there. Yeah, we all like. It's like half a bite of humble pie, everybody. Here we go. Yes.

Yeah. Well, this is. We. We all need it. But the, the, you know, when we get this humility and we start to understand, wow, I am exhausted. And a time that we're feeling resentment or in our heads, right, we're like, well, you know, I did give you this or do that one thing for you that one time. I just find it really convenient that you're nowhere to be found when I need you. There you go. There's your. There's your initiation. You were being selfish. You.

Your attention was on you.

It wasn't true. Giving and this mirror can be such a journey, but always, always worth looking into because then we start to get in harmony with who we actually are. And then our giving, we just give and we forget about it. Right? Yeah.

Because it's about the giving, it's not about the transaction.

Yeah. Big mindset shift for a lot of people, right. People will come to me and say, I'm just a people pleaser and I know what they're doing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well. And that's the thing in that. It's making that distinct distinction because people, some people might be hearing this and going, but I love to please other people. And that's not exactly what we're saying. We're saying that when it's this constant contorting in order to get the feeling that you need, that's the people pleasing. And, and, and I want to. When you were describing this, I thought, you know, it's the same kind of thing by. I mean subtly different, but it's the over. Over overacting or overdoing meaning the over busyness, if you will. If I'm really busy, then I'm important. If I'm really busy, then, well, I just simply can't do the things you want me to. It's not that I don't want to. It's that I can't do them. And defaulting to things or excuses or reasons, acting as though it's not within our own power, when in truth, we've created it and we're using it, and we're using it in a form that isn't authentic to our own worth or who we want to be in the world or who we're trying to say we are in the world. And it's. It's an illusion. So it's. Any thoughts on that one? That, that the busyness using Yeah, I love it.

When you were talking about that. It. It really jogged, you know, clicked in with me. So. So that compulsive busyness or seeking validation or achievement, that. That's typically a trauma response. Right. And so we learn as particularly as children that we will stay safe if we're accepted, and we will stay safe if we're outputting. And so we take these defenses as strategies with us as we go. And like I said, you know, our society rewards that. Our society, like, look at you. Like, wow, you have got so much going on. You're Wonder Woman, You're Super Mom. I don't know how you do it all. And so it reinforces this. This. This pattern. But when we aren't able to sit with ourselves and when our sympathetic nervous system. Right. That. That survival is like gas to the ground all the time, and we can't sit and just be. There's some information there, right? So I think that's a huge trauma response. I'm listening to somebody the other day speak, and it reminded me of, you know, a pattern that I had, and I have to work through this all the time, which is when I was really young, I was not allowed to go to the regular school because my behavior at, you know, 5, 6, 7, 8 was really incompatible with being in the mainstream classroom. And so I actually got sent to, like, an institutional school for children with mental health issues, physical disabilities. And I just. This sense of rejection, I mean, and. And being ostracized just started. And at that time, it was the late 80s, there was only the identified patient. There was never looking at the child in the context of the home. So the problem was me. And it really kicked off this cascade of needing to be accepted because I always so profoundly felt like I wasn't. I was always on the outside looking in. Like, everybody got the secret code to life, and I didn't get it. And so for. For so many years, the achievements that I. The achievements that I wanted for myself were to prove that not only was I okay, but that I was exceptional. Right? Like, somebody was moving into the city. I was moving to Sydney, Australia. Like, there was just this compulsion to be exceptional. And it doesn't work. It just doesn't work. Because inside you just stay the same until you find the bigger. The bigger meaning.

I love that example. And I want to, first of all distinguish for people listening, that you're not saying there's anything wrong with aiming for exceptional. It's this. This specificity that you weren't okay with just being okay, that you had to overcompensate to exceptional because that was the only thing good enough in your eyes to be accepted. And, and that's the difference because there's, there's nothing wrong with exceptional. It's how you were using exceptional in your life in order to transact with other humans. That was your trauma response based on what had happened to you. And the reason I'm, I'm getting very specific with this is because there's so many behaviors that I promise are showing up in us as high functioning humans out in the world that are really doing ourselves a disservice or doing our relationships a disservice or doing our own growth our disservice or our alignment or our congruence. And along the, you know, you describe something really specific as the, the people pleasing, the over busyness as a trauma response, the making yourself have to be exceptional to equal acceptance overall to other, that kind of transaction. And then that made me think as well of the independence because as if, if people can't tell we're, we're hauling out our garbage here, showing it to the world and going, okay, if you can see what we've been through, maybe you recognize something and can also see the amazing fulfillment, amazing lightness and amazing alignment that comes from actually doing the work to go through it, to see your own garbage and be able to clean up your own garbage. And so the other one I was going to point to that I think would be really useful here as well, is that over independence or that hyper independence as a trauma response as well. Just like you pointed to the busyness, it's the societally approved, oh, look at her go. Look at him go, oh, he's, you know, he's done it all or he's so amazing or she's just unstoppable or whatever. Now again, there's nothing wrong with being amazing and being unstoppable. It's when we're doing it compulsively as a, as a way of getting acceptance or transacting with other humans, getting our needs met instead of just being our amazing selves just because we can, just because we've chosen to. And that hyper independence is one that, that was a, a survival mechanism for me because I didn't have people, family to lean on at various times that were very formative, really, really needed to be safe or needed other humans. So the way I survived was to become extremely independent. And then you carry that through because it worked, because it's effective. And so the only reason we carry any of These through is because we got a positive reward in some form. We either survived or we thrived because of doing that thing. And there we go. It just, it reinforces the pattern. And to make it simple, it's just a pattern. And when, when we can see our own patterns or see and it, the pattern can become kind of like, well, that pattern's not working for me anymore because I start to realize how fear based or scarcity based or lack of self worth based it is. And once that's seen, then we can start to clean it up and actually act on how we're choosing instead of the pattern that's been controlling us.

So profound. I think that, you know, what this all really comes back down to is a fear of vulnerability. And when you learn, you know that your needs are not going to be met unless you meet them yourself. When you learn that you're, you're your own safety net and no one else is coming, but especially when you're young, can create this like armor and a guardedness. I know so many like you, high achieving, you know, quote unquote successful people, and they are so, so profoundly lonely and they just don't feel known. And I think that this can be the hardest part of the journey because if you're seen as the person that you go to for the answers, it is very, very, very difficult to ask for help. And a lot of times you're just at the mercy of either something really catastrophic happening where you actually have no choice to, or something really intuitive and insightful, knowing and seeing you. And, and to be honest, those things are not, you know, typical things. So most people just go through life as a high achiever feeling so, so unknown and lonely. But the, the crazy thing is, is that we're so drawn to leaders who are vulnerable, who have that openness. That's what is so enticing and inspiring and it makes people feel connected. One of the quickest ways I develop rapport with anybody is if people see me on the street. No one's going to think like, oh, she must have spent four months in a psych hospital. That would, nobody would think that, right? But I did. And it's not anything that I'm ashamed of. And when I talk about it, it lowers the bot like it's. The power differential is gone. I become human in that moment. I become inspirational and someone can connect and feel that warmth because I've been there. And that's where the juice is. So if you are somebody who's super, you know, high achieving, then ask yourself Am I lonely? Do I feel like I'm really known? And where, where can I play around with becoming a little bit more vulnerable? Because when we get in touch with that, things can change and things feel a lot easier.

Oh, you know what? So it's so timely that you, that you bring up that part of it, the vulnerability. And, and the, this is, this is where, this is where people are drawn to those types of leaders. Th this month in our Mastermind, our topic is all about communication for connection. And in researching it, I was looking at the, the myth of professionalism versus any sort of emotional sharing within the workplace and that kind of thing. And the research is clear. The research is that those leaders who are more emotionally regulated but vulnerable and open and have high emotional intelligence, those are the leaders that have higher functioning teams, greater productivity, greater psychological safety in the workplace, greater trust. And so then this is just. We're, we're about to do these coaching sessions this month. We haven't done them yet, but the research on this is clear and it's exactly what you just said in that it's not oversharing. And sometimes people misunderstand that. Being vulnerable doesn't mean you tell every nitty gritty detail. If the context doesn't call for it, if the context isn't appropriate, it means that you are human to other humans instead of being, you know, a bulletproof icon that, that is so stoic or so, you know, whatever cool that people can't connect to that person. And sometimes if, if we're under the guise of the armor or the strength or the impermeability, we think that that's what people want. But ultimately it fosters people being afraid that they can't be vulnerable, they can't experience their own thing. They have to be perfect. There's a number of things that come with that, that just don't work when it comes to either groups of people like families or communities or business teams or whatever that looks like. And there's a leader who is trying to be that armored strength, if you will.

Yeah, it's so true. And, and like, just think about your own circles, right? Like, I could think about some circles that I'm in and then there's the people that just always have the answer and they're always right. And it's always like this one way, and then it's mic drop and it's not compelling. It might be, it might be in a pinch or at the beginning, but, but after a while, you know, you just start to think like, what are you Hiding, you know, like, what are you hiding? Like, where. Where is the. Where's the heart in there? Um. And yeah, we have to get in touch with that, with that vulnerability. And the most beautiful gift, especially for high achievers and especially for the perfectionists and the, you know, that the strong lines. The most beautiful gift you could ever give yourself is to let yourself be known. Because when you will let yourself be known all the way, then you'll also get the experience of being truly loved for who you are. There have been times in my team where I have, you know, I lead a large team, and I've thought, oh, my God, I can't believe I'm telling them this. And then, like a thief in the night, the love and the support and the connection and the strength of our team, because I've had the courage to just go first and say, I don't know the answer, or this really upset me, or here's what's going on in my own life. It. It shocks me every time. It just shocks me. So I think it's worth practicing.

And I want to. There's two things that I want to just pull this together with. It's. It's that. That. That imperfection is really where it's at because that's who we are. We're imperfect humans. And really allowing ourselves to be all of us, not this protected version that we've created that we only allow certain people to see, is where we get to open up to our fullest experience of the world. It. It's. It ends up being really profound. I. These are such powerful nuggets. They're such big concepts that I think that the way you've explained them has really. They're. They're tangible, they're understandable. They're. They're deep, yet they're huge. And yet I think that the listeners will really go, oh, oh, oh my goodness. You know, that that's what I do. And I know exactly why I do that now. And it's not working for me anymore. So I think these things are really, really great. You had. There's. There's a little. I love this. The piece of advice that you received and that you'd like to really pass on. And I know you've alluded to it throughout in various ways, but I'd like to you to really, um, get it across to people that. Do you know what one I'm talking about? Give me life. And you've said this really specifically. Life is always happening for you, not to you.

And changed my life. This One thing. You know how you can hear something over and over? Everything happens for a reason. You, you hear something over and over again and then one, one day you hear it. Like you hear it every cell in your body says, oh yeah, that's the truth. I hear you. I like I am that now that hearing, hearing life is always happening for me and never to me. Every single thing that has ever happened, everything that is happening now and everything that will happen in the future, I know I will assign a different meaning. Because when you start to see that all of life is supporting you through the initiations, through the challenges, through the opportunities, when you start to see that that is always happening for the highest evolution of your soul, everything becomes more manageable. And the biggest periods of expansion, explosive growth in my life have always happened when I've been leveled, that I've been humbled, when I've been broken wide open, suffering when I didn't care anymore what anyone thought. Because the jig was over and I just started to ask to be guided. Let use my life as the example. Use, you know, whatever spirit is out there. Use me for the good of all concern. Every single time I've gotten into that so spot it's been, you know, catapulting into the next level of growth. So it's always worth it. And life actually in fact is always happening for you.

Oh, I love that. I love that, I love that. For our listeners just wrapping up, I know that they will want to see where you hang out. You are on Instagram at Jordy T and J O R D I T E E. And then the other thing that. Well, there's one fun fact I'd like people to know because they may not have picked up on this that is not in your bio that you are like a walking musical. Sing, dance, create a one woman show. So that to me right there speaks of a massive heart going out into the world just going, yeah, this is who I am. And take it or like it because I got some music going on in me all the time. So I love that. And the, the zone that you really want mentioned and that people can potentially give back to, especially if they're in Ontario and Canada, is Wallet to wealth. And this is an organization that helps women and children in shelters locally in Ontario and brings empowered women together to learn. And the donations go to women who need support and support in getting themselves empowered. So that was something you wanted to draw attention to. Any final thoughts and words before we wrap up? And just sending such gratitude for what you've offered us today.

Yeah, I'm so, so honored to be here. And, and this really is just the work of my life. And so the last thing that I'll leave your listeners with is if you are in a dark spot, if you're going through something, if something that, you know, you and I have talked about have sparked something else in someone, just know that you really are exactly where you need to be. And, and, and that life truly is happening for you. And, and you know, I just wish all your listeners, you know, may you be happy.

Oh, I love this. Thank you so much, Jordan. You are just a, a bright light and thank you for sharing your expertise. I think this is something that more people need to hear. So we are happy to get it out there and keep doing what you're doing because I, I don't have a doubt in my mind that it's just having a massive impact on the quality of people's lives. So thank you so much.

Thank you so much for having me.

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