Mandy Bujold - Boxing Olympian

This is episode 116 of the Empowered Team podcast. Today on the Empowered Team Podcast, we welcome Mandy Bugeau. This boxer has been on the international scene for over a decade, and she kicked things off winning a junior national championship here in Canada way back in 2006. She's had pan Am gold, and she shares a story with us today that is absolutely awesome. How she got into the head of world number one, Marlene Esperaza at the Pan Am Games, one of her arch nemesis and someone that she had been wanting to beat for years. Super cool story. You're gonna love it. You're gonna love Mandy's story. She has great tips for athletes on there on how to promote yourself and connect with the community to help get the support you need to succeed as an amateur athlete in Canada. The Empowered Team podcast welcomes Mandy Brugio. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast where we explore how to optimize your performance in career sport. And now your host, Vitaldi and peak performance coach, Kari Schneider. Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast. Paul and Kari with you, and we have Mandy Rougeau with us. Thank you so much for making the time. I know that scheduling is always a challenge, and you're a relatively new mother, of course, so juggling family life and married life and everything else that's going on is a challenge. And there's some kind of pandemic going on as well, I believe.

That usually throws a wrench into an athlete's plans, that's for sure. So how are you doing tonight?

I'm doing good. Yeah. Thanks for having me.

That's good. So you just to give our audience a bit of a snapshot here, you're a boxer and you're a flyweight boxer. So this is really exciting to me because I rarely meet athletes that are kind of tough, badass, and my size. So this is really cool for me. And I grew up watching a lot of boxing with my dad, and he would be into all sorts. Most people. I think I might be sounding really ignorant when it comes to your sport, but my perception is that most people always go for, you know, the heavyweight, the big, you know, the big fights that way, the big size fights. But it's so bloody fun to watch the small fighters. Such a different boat, so. And I was fortunate enough to train a couple of boxers in my career, but as a strength and conditioning coach. But I. Yeah, I want to learn more from you and what it's like for you and to start how you got into boxing.

Yeah. So I actually got involved in the Sport, just for fun. It was like something my brother did, and I saw what he was learning and how excited he was when he was coming home, and I thought, oh, that looks fun. Like, I want to do what he's doing. But at the time, like, there wasn't that many girls in the boxing gym, so it wasn't cool to bring your little sister to the gym with you. Right? So I actually had to wait a little bit until he actually quit. He started working full time, and then I still had an interest in it. So that's when I just decided to ask a friend, hey, do you want to come to the gym with me? Did that mostly because I was unsure of what I was going to walk into. And it's always nice to have someone there when you're doing that. So, yeah, so that was my first experience, and it was really different for me because I wasn't involved in sport at all up until that point. I was about 15, going on 16 when I walked into a gym. And, like, even to the point where in high school, gym class was no longer mandatory, I think after grade 10, like, I opted out of taking it. So I was so far from being an athlete. So it wasn't like I looked at the sport of boxing like, oh, that looks like a fun sport to me. It was more like, I want to learn the skill of boxing, like, how to throw proper punches, how to defend myself, that type of thing. That's what drew me to it. And then once I walked in the gym, it was just like, I just fell in love with it. It was really. It was demanding, it was hard, but it was something that I was, like, determined to be. So I think that's kind of what led me and kept me in the sport.

You said you weren't really an athlete, but obviously you're tremendous from a rope standpoint. Did you run a lot as a kid or.

No. Nothing? No, I couldn't discover that engine at all.

There was never something that you did as a kid that you just kind of naturally had some endurance or grit or.

No, I remember getting tired. Like, my best friend lived door. And I remember, like, sometimes if I would come home at night, like, I was just a kid, and I would, like, run because I was scared outside and I was, like, so tired when I got to my. To my door. So, no, I was the furthest thing. Like, I remember I had to. I had to learn everything from, you know, how to run to how to lift weights, how to, like, build muscle. Like, because as a boxer, you have to Be able to do all those things. Right? You have to be strong, you have to be quick. You have to have endurance. So, yeah, I had to start from, like, zero and just build all that. And I think my discipline and the fact that I was just so determined to be able to do that, I think that's what kind of pushed me to help me to get there.

And, I mean, I am creeping and see a keyboard in the background and some music. Is there. Is there something from a. From a discipline standpoint and staying focused and staying, you know, on point? It was it. Is it a background in music? Is it, you know, did you have parents who are pretty structured or made you guys follow through? Was there, like, was there something? Because most, you know, we've been athletes, been around thousands of athletes, and typically this is so atypical because typically the story is that there's some sort of structural foundation of physicality or of discipline or of struggle or whatever. There's something usually there that has people be this builder for the next step in their athletic career.

Yeah. Honestly, in my life, like, I don't have that. Like, when I was younger, my parents would try to put us in sports like they did, like most do. And, you know, they'd always pick things for me, like baton twirling or, like, artistic gymnastics. And I didn't mind them, but I wasn't very good at them. Like, I wasn't flexible, and I didn't really, like, enjoy those sport experiences. And I think that's why, for me, I wrote off really early on in life, like, I'm not an athlete. My oldest brother, not the one I followed to the gym, but my oldest brother, he was naturally gifted in everything, whether it was music, art, or sports. So he could just kind of do everything. And then my other brother was kind of in the middle more. Like me, just didn't really find that thing that he really enjoyed. So, I mean, my parents were not sports people at all. Like, even now, they still, half the time think, I don't get punched in the face when I box.

Only body shots. Only body shots.

But they literally would just. They saw that there was an interest. They always encourage us. Right. Like, if there was something that you really enjoyed, like, they would bring me. But the amount of times my parents have actually, like, walked into the gym, even when I was younger, you know, they would just drop me off and leave. They wouldn't really, like, come up and get involved. They weren't those type of parents. But they encouraged me in other ways. Right. So, yeah, I think My mom just said like, since I was young, if I wanted to do something, I just like didn't matter what got in my way, I would just do it. So, yeah, I guess it just, maybe it was genetic. I don't know, maybe I just found my passion. Right. I think that's the big thing is that a lot of people go through their whole life without finding what they're passionate about. And I was lucky to like walk into that when I was you know, 15 going on 16. Like, I didn't really have like a vision or anything else at that point. I was still pretty young after college or going to college even, like. So my, it kind of took me in a whole direction and it kind of formed my career. Right. So, yeah, I guess it was different. It wasn't like it took me off a path I was already headed down. It just kind of came in my life at the right moment and yeah, and again I just realized I was good at it, so I followed it.

When you say, you know, so many people just don't. They search for a long time to try and find their passion. And so it sounds like you found this passion early on. And it was, you know, that's quite the gift for so many people to really, it's amazing thing to be so passionate about something. What was it that you became passionate about? What did you fall in love with when you first started boxing?

I think at the beginning it was just like this determination of like actually being able to do it. Like I don't know if you've ever been to a boxing workout, but it's, it's hard, right? And like at the beginning, so like an old school warmup would be like, you know, running around the gym, everybody's running together and then every, you know, 20 or 30 seconds, you drop and give me 10 burpees or drop and give me 10 push ups and jumping jacks and whatever. And again, coming from non sporting background, like I had to stop, stop and like tie my shoe a lot.

Shoelace. Shoelace.

Oh. I think it was like setting those small goals, like, okay, my first goal was like, get through the warmup. And then eventually it became like, okay, like just get through the actual workout without having to stop or whatever. And then even at the beginning, like I didn't want contact, like the coach would always look to like, who's going to spar today? And I'd like, I'd have every excuse in the book. Like, I forget my mouthpiece. I had a headache that day. I wasn't feeling well. Like, it was anything I could think of to, like, not actually get in the ring.

You said you found your passion here. This doesn't sound like you found your passion.

You weren't exactly the star boxer right off the hop.

But I didn't want to get hit. Like, I loved being in the gym. I loved it. Like, it was just like this. Like, oh, my God, this is what I want to, like, do as far as, like, for fun, not competitive. So it just. It grew that. Because I had the love for it. And then I realized, okay, it took me about a year and proper coaching to really feel comfortable, like, how to take punches and what that means and how to be able to do that properly until I actually took that next step to getting into the ring and actually trying to compete. But at first, it was really just. I love the feeling of the boxing. I love, like, just the energy I got from it. When I was done my workout, um, yeah, I just. There was. It was everything around the sport that I really liked, but I didn't actually want to get hit. I would see the girl. There was one girl in the gym, and I remember her because she was a national champion at the time, and there wasn't really hardly any other girls. Um, and I remember watching her, like, spar with the boys and thinking, like, wow, that's amazing. Like, I want to do that, but I didn't actually want to do it, like, look at it and be, like, on paper.

But. So how did you. How did you get up the nerve to have a first real match? Like, yeah, first real fight.

Honestly, it was just, like I said, it was a matter of, like, having. Right. Coaching. Having someone just, like, actually sit down with me and, like, work on things one on one. Um, and then just, like, people convincing me that, like, hey, you should compete. So I did start eventually sparring and getting more comfortable with it, um, and, like, start getting hit a little less, you know, start being able to, like, keep my eyes on my target when it was or, like, when they were hitting me kind of thing. Like, there's just so many things that's a natural reaction, right? When a punch comes at you, you kind of want to, like, turn away. So I got. Just got more comfortable with it. And I think it just came down to, like, the coaching. And then, you know, finally I was like, well, you know what? Maybe I should try competing. And then when I did start competing, I again, really quickly realized, wow, I'm really good at this. Like, I stopped the girl in the second round of my first fight. My Second fight finished in, like, the first 30 seconds. So I was like, oh. So then I was like, right. Like, I was just then building confidence. Like, I was always like, I guess a bit of an aggressive person and a very, like, competitive person, which this was just bringing that out in me. So, yeah, I just realized I was good at it, and then I just never looked back. It was just, okay, what's the next thing you know, there's a provincials, and then there's nationals, and then I started traveling internationally, and I had a lot of really tough fights early on in my career, which I think helped build my. Build me up. Right. So I knew what to expect. I actually. I fought the Canadian champion when I had three fights, and she had, like, 60 fights, and I ended up beating her. She was not very happy about that. But again, it just built me up. Like, I was just. Yeah, it was. I guess I had found what I was meant to do.

So you were coach under Adrian Teodorescu? Yes, for our listeners know him, he coached Lennox Lewis. When did you catch his eye or how did you get to train him? Was that really early that started, or once you started to make waves? Clearly by your third bout?

Yeah. Yeah. So I met him, like, really early on. The boxing world's a pretty small world, right, once you kind of get competing? Um, so I met him really early on, and then the coach that I was working with, his name was Rick. He was here in Kitchener. He used to bring me to Toronto for sparring. And then when I started traveling internationally, he had me working with him kind of like once a week so that I could learn a bit more of the European style. Because Adrian, he came from. Over. From Romania. He was a national team coach over there, and then for a while was the. The head coach in Canada, and basically had coached anyone in Canada who'd ever been an Olympian or a world champion. So definitely a legendary coach. So, yeah, I was working with him kind of once a week type thing, um, and then on and off, because he had a lot of, like, smaller guys that I could spar with. So it was. It was just really handy. And then, you know, eventually when I got to a point that I knew I needed to make a change in my training, it was. It was pretty much a given. I knew that, you know, even two years before I actually started training with him full time, I wrote down somewhere that, you know, like, what do I need to do to get to where I want to go? And I basically wrote down, I need to work with Adrian, you know, More. And I knew that he just had so much knowledge. Um, so, yeah, eventually I had a little bit of falling out with my coach and then I just. It was kind of okay. Well, this is the moment. And that's when I started training with Adrian full time in Toronto. Yeah. Yeah. So I had moved. That was kind of what was holding me back for a while was having. Yeah. Either commuting or moving. Commuting is hard because he wanted me there like twice a day. So you'd either have to, like, sit around all day, you'd be like, exhausted or. Yeah, commuting. So I moved there basically. Like, initially I just had a friend who lived there and I was just like kind of testing it out, and I would go there, you know, three or four days, and then I'd come home and then finally found like an apartment close by the gym, and that was it. I basically just lived in the gym.

We've talked to athletes from almost every sport on this show. And, you know, I've been an athlete myself and work in the Sport Canada program and obviously know the funding side of things to do that at that time. How did you train and support yourself to train and, you know, balance that? It's a struggle every athlete in Canada faces.

Yeah, absolutely. The biggest thing for me, honestly, like, really early on in my career, I learned how to network and I learned how to make connections and I learned how to create relationships and I learned how to brand myself. And I think that's what's made a difference for me in my career is that, you know, coming from Kitchener Waterloo, there's a big business community here in town. I've always just been really good at staying connected with them, letting them know, hey, this is who I am, this is what I'm doing, this is my. What I'm working towards. And I've been able to run some very successful fundraisers with some key people in the community who have kind of helped me go out to their networks as well. So, yeah, honestly, doing fundraising in Kitchener, the community has supported me from day one, which has been absolutely amazing, applying for grants. When I was in Toronto, I was getting my carding as well. Just recently they made some changes to that, so now they have a centralized system in Montreal. So I actually can't get my carding unless I move there. And I have a 2 year old, so can't really move there. So I've given up all of my funding now and just rely on my own fundraising and my own sponsorship stuff.

I think this is really important for coaches and athletes to hear this part of it. Because for most Canadian national level athletes in some form or another, if they're creative, they can find sponsorship. And that's almost a necessary thing for athletes in Canada. And that's not usually something that athletes want to hear because they want to stay so focused on their training and their sport. But it's great for you to share that because it's the difference between eating, craft, dinner, and getting what you really need as an athlete.

So, absolutely. I think I've done a few talks even to other Canadian athletes or for the Canadian Sports center on branding yourself and marketing as well. And that's the biggest thing is finding the time, right? Because you want to focus all of your time and energy on training. That's where your energy and time should be. Um, but unfortunately, as a Canadian athlete, you can't do that. You have to have, you know, some sort of time set aside to focus on this stuff. And the thing that people, you know, worry about is like, well, you know, where am I going to go or what am I going to do? And what if they say no? So what. What if they say no? Right? They're. They. You have to ask, right? You have to go out there, you have to put yourself out there. You have to. People want to help. People want to be a part of your journey. And if they're helping you, they're a part of that journey, right? So make them feel like they're a part of that journey. So I think that's the big thing is just encouraging them to, like, not be afraid to go out, ask for help. Because the worst thing they can say is no.

Well, and that's what I was, I was just going to say too, with what you had pointed to, was that they want to know these stories, People in the community who are either business people or just general people who live their life, they think that our Canadian athletes, our Canadian national level athletes are going to be covered on some sort of media source and they're surprised to learn about all these athletes that are up and coming but just don't have any coverage, any media coverage, or any real decent living level of funding. And so they, they become curious and interested and then they feel like they're, you know, they're a part of that journey. Part of your journey. And it feels really good to know what's going on behind the scenes and.

Be a part of you going forward. Yeah, absolutely.

I think too, it's really important for athletes to do what you've done to invest in their future. Because your career is going to end. And if you're able to network and create these relationships with businesses, it opens a door to experimenting with things when you're done. If you have an interest of one business now, you have some connections, you could talk to them about volunteering or, you know, they'd be more than willing or more likely to help you out having that relationship already. And.

Experience, yeah, that's a lot of my experiences have come from that. Like, even so I work with RBC through their RBC Olympians program. So they have, you can either do like just appearance based stuff for them or you can actually do some in office. So they actually brought me as an in office athlete with their sponsorship team because of the experience that I have. And then I also founded my own charity called Champions for Charity, which was bringing like business people into the boxing ring, training them for three months and then actually having them fight in a black tie event against each other. So I had like a dentist fighting the general manager of like a hotel, for example, in a fight.

The dentist is just looking for business.

Yeah, but it was awesome. Yeah, but the city of Kitchener have never, has never seen an event like that. So like I had to turn people away when I was promoting it, like, and it was literally just me like promoting it to like the people that I knew and companies and a little bit of social media. But it did awesome. And we raised like over 160,000 thousand dollars in year one for our charity, which was really cool. So again, like, being a part of the community also means giving back to the community, which is something that I've always felt was important. And I think people will see that, that, hey, you know what? Yeah, she does come around and she, she wants, she needs us to help her, but then she's doing all this other stuff in the community that helps make the community stronger.

So I think it's, it's, it's a cyclical thing that you end up giving back as well. So for our listeners, what was that big kind of, I don't know, the event or the achievement that you really were, that you were just kind of going, oh, this is it. This is the thing I've been waiting for. This is what I've worked so hard for. This is, I've finally gotten there. What was that one? Was it a Pan Am Games? Was it Nationals? What, what was it for you?

Oh, I feel like I could answer that in a couple different ways. I feel like the first, the first moment for me, like early on in my career would have Been winning like a Continental Championships, which was basically like a Pan Am, but I just remember when I, like, it didn't really hit me until I came home and then, you know, like someone from like the newspaper or something called me and I was maybe like 17 or something at the time. And I remember just thinking like, this is a pretty big deal. Like, I am the best boxer in my weight class in this entire continent. Like, it was, that was kind of a.

Kind of a big deal.

What just happened. It just all happened so quickly. So, yeah, that was definitely a big moment for me. And then, I mean, qualifying for the Olympics, you know, that qualifying fight. So basically in the last, in 2016, when we had our qualifiers, the top two that qualify, so in the semifinals, I basically, once I won that fight, I knew I had qualified and I had just worked for like 13 years for that moment. And, you know, I tried in 2012 and the qualification process was a complete mess. So I ended up staying home, watching it on tv, which was not fun. And then I focused and finally made that 2016 team. So that moment of qualifying, like, yeah, like I hadn't even gone to the finals yet, but I knew I was there. Yeah, I just remember sitting there and it was just like I just couldn't hold the emotion. Right. Like I just started crying and it was just like I was happy tears, but it was just like I was basically on cloud nine for I don't even know how long. Yeah, those were probably the two moments.

Amazing, amazing. So you, there's a couple things I want to make sure our listeners can understand for you. Number one is that you're married and you have a young one, a two year old.

So how has that.

Because I know having worked with a lot of national and professional level athletes, it's so much different for women than it is for men. Men in sport tend to have more longevity in national level teams and professional careers because if they have a family, they keep playing through. And for women, it's often a little more challenging to do both, to decide they either stop their career to have a family or trying to do both is a little more challenging. So what has that whole journey been like for you?

Yeah, it's definitely tough. Yeah. Like you said, you have to make a decision, right. And you have to find, I guess, the right time in your career. I can see now, I don't know if I'm just noticing it more because I can see a lot more athletes seem to be, you know, taking that step, having a child and then deciding to come Back, which is awesome. So I guess I was just at that point in my career where I just thought, you know what? Like, I wasn't sure if I was going to be done. I was kind of on the fence about it, but I knew I wanted to start a family and I'm not getting any younger. My husband, you know, has wanted kids for a few years. So. Yeah, so we just made that decision and now it's just really about making sure you have the right people around you to support you in that. Because when I make a decision now about, you know, an event or tournament or something like, it not only affects me going away, I have to now plan for, okay, well, who's going to take care of Kate while I'm away. So, you know, my husband does have. He works 24 hour shifts on the fire department, so that is helpful for us because he does have a lot of days where he is off. But again, I rely a lot on my mom, I rely on my niece. So I have key people around me that, you know, basically have, like, committed as well to this goal. Because I know, like, come January, things are really going to start picking up again and I'm going to need them to, to be there and to support and, you know, if I'm training or things come up, sometimes it's last minute to be able to just have those people you can rely on. It's.

It's like a different form of sponsorship. Yeah, it quite literally is. And the reason I say that is because when I was so, when my oldest daughter is 20 years old, and when I opened my gym, I was the head strength and conditioning coach for the Canadian Sport Institute in Manitoba. And we didn't have a place to train for our next qualifier. This was for 2008 Olympics. And so I ended up opening a gym, a training center so that the national volleyball teams could play and a number of. But I was a single mom and I had my little one, she was five at the time. And so it was one of those things where I was structuring. I literally built the gym so that the office had a window that could look into the training space and I could have her there with me. And so this little kid was growing up with national level athletes around her, from Paralympians to national volleyball players to triathletes to swimmers to private clients. So it's just this incredible environment for her to experience that she's, you know, she's never forgotten in a lot of ways. But that's the situation that you're, you're exposing your daughter to, you know, and I think it's the coolest thing. Her, her second name is Olympia.

Yeah.

Is that right, Kate? Olympia.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

I love it. Knockout. So, you know, it's, it's your sponsorship of the people around you. And that's what I had to have in some ways too. It was in the form of friends and babysitters and structuring the gym. But it, it makes a huge difference for your journey forward and it'll have this bond with your daughter in such a unique, incredible way.

Yeah, yeah, no, I, I think so too. I think it's. Sometimes you think it's hard in that moment, right? Oh, I gotta, you know, be away for a week or whatever. But I think once you realize, you know, what it is that I'm doing or you know, how big that is, that I think she'll really appreciate that.

The things that you feel will be the hardest, she won't remember.

Yeah, yeah. For sure.

This is harder on you. The things that are so challenging, like the decisions you have to make, the time you have to the heartbreak, the longing you're gonna feel, the feeling torn. All of those things. As a competitive professional mother, all of those things she won't remember. And so mostly your journey right now, and that's just coming from a mother and coming from someone who's been through some of those types of things, that kind of national push for the bigger dream. Right. So speaking of the bigger dream, this 20, 20 year, what happened? Yeah, what, what's, what's happened for you, leading into all of this for Covid, for, you know, you have a young child. What's this journey been like for you in this last quad?

Yeah, so it's, I mean, it's been interesting in the sense that. So we were basically three days away from our qualifier, so we had, we done, we were like a two step process, so a Canadian qualifier, which we already did, and then we were going out to Argentina like three days before everything got shut down. So it sucked because I was already like peaking for that moment. Right. For what would have been, you know, the biggest event, I guess, of my life until that point. And then to have to be like sitting at home. So definitely a lot of emotion, a lot of, you know, ups and downs. But at the same time, because I had basically gone back to training, slash, I, I basically started running my charity event like when Kate was, when we were still in the hospital. So I was like with a newborn, trying to plan an event. So I had a really busy like year and a year and a half, I guess, up into that point. So I guess when I did hear, okay, start realizing this is going to be more than two weeks, you know, when they were saying two weeks, two weeks, I think it was kind of a moment for me to like, okay, I can relax a little bit, kind of enjoy a little bit of downtime, still train, but kind of get a little bit more of that, you know, quality family time in as well. So I guess there was kind of two sides to it also. Just having to think about, okay, well, I was going to retire after this Olympic Games. Now I would have to train for another year, which obviously is not ideal because I feel like the way I wanted to plan it was, you know, she's now getting to an age where she's starting her activities, right? Like, we have her in gymnastics and we want to get her involved in other things where I was, you know, supposed to be done my things. I guess so, yeah, I guess those are the toughest. Having to push through another year again, things haven't really picked up. So it looks like it's going to be more of like, you know, six, seven month push once, you know, January comes around. But yeah, it was again, having to have a conversation with my husband, with my mom, with my family just to make sure that they're on board as well, because I need them to obviously be supporting this goal as well.

It's such a, like you say, it's this blessing and a curse where you go, okay, I get all this extra time, but all the plans go out the window. And at the same time, the conversations that you're talking about with how you're choosing to parent as well are often less of a conversation. I don't want to stereotype between male athletes and female athletes, but I kind of am. I guess when I say, like, I don't know that that's as much of a conversation for a male athlete with a young one as it is female athlete, because it just, it's a. It's. I guess it's different for every family and every family has to make that decision themselves and how they're going to go through that. But it's interesting because it's such a time is a factor if you want to have more kids, then it's like, okay, well, do I have another child between another quad. What does that look like? You look at Kerry Walsh for the women's beach volleyball. You know, she's got kids, she's going for another Olympics.

It's.

A lot of that depends on funding, too. A lot of it depends on, you know, freedom of location to train. So it's. I find all that very interesting.

Yeah, it is. It definitely is. I know for me, like, I did definitely want to have, like, I want to have another one. So hopefully, you know, it is thinking about even how much time between the two. Right. Like, so I wanted them to be close together so that they grow up, like, with that bond. Right now I'm adding an extra year to that. Like, what's that dynamic going to be like between the two kids? Yeah, right. It's just there's so much to think about when you're trying to plan something like this. But again, like, everything that's happening right now is just so out of our control that it's hard to. It's hard to really, like, make concrete plans around because everything's kind of up in the air. Right. So it's. Yeah.

What drives you through that at this stage with all that uncertainty? To train at the level you need to takes incredible commitment. And what's the fuel? Is it unfinished business, having the letdown of being sick in Rio before the quarterfinals?

Yeah, I would say that's definitely it. Like, for me, that's what drove me to make this kind of come back was that was really just knowing what I was capable of but not able to actually execute in. So, yeah, I mean, but I have ups and downs like everyone else. Right. Like, I'm human. There's weeks where I feel really motivated right now, and then there's other weeks where, you know, I just kind of feel like this week's a write off. Right. Because it just, like nothing's falling into place or you start to get a good routine. And then all of a sudden, now there's a new rule where you can't do that or you can't. So it's, you know, having to constantly adjust. And I think this will really be an opportunity, though, to, like, who can actually stick with it through all this, right. Who's going to be able to shine when it's time to shine? So that's in the back of my mind too, Right. Like, just being that person, I don't really need outside motivation. Like, I'm pretty motivated on my own. So, you know, even when I had to train here at home, like, I can give the same intensity that I would in a gym surrounded by people. So that's not really a concern for me. It's more of, you know, just having that consistency and being able to do the things that I Need to do, like, sparring or, like, competitions that are going to make me feel that I'm ready.

So key to have that competition. Prep the eating to win. Basically. This is something that we've touched on with a number of athletes that we've interviewed, and it's the. We've interviewed a number of athletes who've recovered from concussions or had concussions. Is this a pretty big concern for you? What's it like for you with. With that regard?

Yeah. So, I mean, I've been very fortunate, knock on wood, that I haven't had any diagnosed concussions anyway. You know, I may have had minor ones. I feel like I've, you know, this long in the sport. I'm sure there's got to be something. But I haven't really had any. Anything major. But, yeah, it's definitely a concern moving forward, especially, I think when you have a child, you start thinking about your health differently. And, you know, so I do think of that. Like, I think, okay, well, you know, I want to be able to. Again, wanting to be able to finish my career on a high note. You know, boxing is not that sport that you want to stick around for too long, so having to add another year. Right. Like, there's always that thought of, you know, all it takes is the wrong punch. So that's why I just. I'm also just very motivated to make sure that I'm 100% prepared, I'm doing all the right things, because it is, you know, can be dangerous if. If you're not prepared. Um, so, yeah, it's definitely something that's always kind of in the back of your mind, I guess. Um, but luckily, I think, you know, with boxing, the nice thing is that I think a lot of people just assume that we have a really high concussion rate because of, you know, what the sport is. But the very first thing you learn when you get into boxing is how to deflect a punch, how to, you know, defend a p. So the amount of times that you get hit with a clean punch without deflecting the power to that punch is pretty rare, actually. So, you know sports where you're getting hit from the side, getting hit from behind, you know, hockey, football, soccer, all that stuff, I think they're probably more apt to be getting concussions. And I think that's where you see the high concussion rates.

But again, lows.

Yeah, exactly. Right. We're always kind of prepared and you know how to. I can literally, like, if a punch is coming at me, I can touch it with one finger. And it deflects the power of that punch. So it might still graze in the air. You know, you still get touched by it, but it's not going to be like a full impact. Mm. And that.

That's curious to me because of one of the first things that you said. You were so interested in the technical aspect of learning the sport, and because you weren't really physical and you weren't really fit, it likely was one of the things that you grew in so much first was that technical aspect. And that's probably served you so much over your career as well.

Yeah, absolutely. I definitely have been known to have one of the most technical boxing, you know, abilities and footwork. Most of my competitors so afloat like a butterfly.

So do you have a favorite bout story or something that, like a play by play that just is one of your favorites?

I would say the finals of the Pan Ams. In the finals, I fought the American girl who was at the time the world champion in Toronto. Yeah, the 20 games. So she was a world champion. She was like a 27 fight win streak, you know, sponsored by CoverGirl, Coca Cola, Nike, everything you can imagine. So she was like their superstar. So she was ranked number one in the draw and I was ranked number two. But she had beat me like three times leading up to this final. And it was always stupid, always like one point or like a split decision. And it was always frustrating for me because I would get out of the ring thinking, like, like I thought I had that one. Or you're just not really sure, like, what are the judges seeing that. That I'm not seeing, or it was always just really frustrating. So I remember just going back and that obviously focused my game plan on her. And I realized that the biggest thing was, was mental and not physical. Right. Like, I think physically we were pretty even. There was maybe one, you know, I knew I had to like, take away her best punch, which was like her overhand. Right. So we worked a lot on that. But even bigger than that was like the psychological component. So some of the things that even people were watching wouldn't have seen, like for in the morning when we had our weigh ins, normally we go into like a nice big room and, you know, the doctors are there, the, the officials are there to like weigh you in, that type of thing. And normally everyone who's fighting on that day is in the room. But for some reason on this day I walked in, it was like just me and her, which is kind of like that awkward. Like, okay, this is going to Be awkward. But then I remember thinking, you know what? I'm going to, like, use this to my advantage. So I kind of, like went in and I went, like, right beside her, and I kind of brushed her shoulder just a little bit as I put my stuff down beside her. And I got a reaction from her, right? Like, I got like a, what, what are you doing? Kind of a reaction. And I just completely ignored it. Pretend like it never happened. And it was kind of funny to me because in my mind, I was like, you know what? I'm not going to show her the respect that I normally show her, you know, because she's a world champion or whatever. Like, I needed to build that for myself. So I didn't think much more of it. The next time I saw her was when we were doing our way.

Not premeditated. You literally just kind of.

Really? Yeah. And then when I went to the weigh in. So normally, like, if you're in the red corner, you have, like, an area that's designated for you. If you're in the blue corner, you stay on that side. But when I got there, she was in. I think I was right in the blue corner, and she was over in my side, and she was there with all her teammates, and she was trying to be, you know, loud and, like, try to, like, almost, like, intimidate me. Like, I'm in your space. What are you gonna do about it? Kind of a thing. And I remember, you know, so I just kind of stayed there and I, you know, got ready like I would normally would. And at one point, my coaches even asked, like, I think my coaches were maybe uncomfortable. They even asked me, like, do you want to go warm up somewhere else? Because it's kind of awkward, like, warming up right next to your opponent. But I remember thinking, you know what? No, because that's what she wants me to do. She wants me to go somewhere else. So she has this little win over me before we get into the ring. So I stayed right there and I just did my warmup in front of her. And then the last thing, which was a little premeditated, was like, I knew that, like, she's a very emotional fighter. So if things aren't going her way, she's basically in her corner and she'll start, like, yelling at her coaches. Or I could see her getting frustrated. Like, she shows it. So I remember thinking, like, when we go out there, I'm going to, like, in the first time we get into a clinch, right when we're nice and close, I'm going to Just like put my palm in her face and kind of like just like rub her face, which is like, no one would like that feeling.

Yeah, yeah.

Also disrespect a little bit, right? So I remember doing that and when I did that, I heard like again, like a reaction like, oh, like, what are you doing? Kind of a thing. And I knew like, just from that moment, like, for me, it was like I was building my confidence as I was doing these things. She maybe doesn't even realize all of this. Like, I do, right. But I could just tell it was frustrating her because at the beginning of the fight, when we went to go touch gloves, when the official calls you in, like, she wouldn't touch gloves because she was already frustrated with me at the beginning. So all those small little things again and just focusing on like being first. My sports psychologist at the time, he was really big into running and he was reading like this Running World magazine. She was featured in there and she says something about always having to be first. And we kind of talked about it and discussed it. And then that kind of became part of our game plan, was like, okay, like someone who always has to be first kind of panics or doesn't know what to do when they're second. Right. So make that our plan. Like go out, throw the first punch every time we go to, like initiate a reaction, like, always be first. And again, that just became my plan and that's what took me to the wind in that situation. So it was exciting for me because no one else really knew what my game plan was and that it was more mental. But the amount of people, like when I got out of the ring, came up to me and were basically like, that was really interesting fight. Like, you could mentally see her breaking down. Like as the fight went on, like, people were commenting on it like, non stop. And it was cool for me because no one knew what that was. Right. But for it to be that obvious, kind of a nice feeling, that's amazing.

And it sounds almost with a psychological warfare that you really elevated your game, you really elevated your toolbox, your potential and what, you know, you can bring to other situations.

I mean, was that you. Was that you really coming out though, or did. Because it didn't sound like it was forced the way you describe it. You just kind of, you just, you knew what to do.

Yeah, it just kind of reacted. And normally. The funny thing is, normally I would see her and like I do with most of my opponents, like, yeah, when I'm in the ring. Yeah, it's all Serious. We fight, but outside the ring. Like, it's not unnormal to, like, hey, how are you? You see this person for, you know, every other tournament, you give them a hug and you, how's it going? Kind of a thing, Right? So I guess I just thought I knew that she was going to be my biggest competitor, and it was kind of like, it was more for me. I realized that I was giving her too much respect, so I knew I had to, like, do something. But the opportunity just presented itself, and again, I just did it. And afterwards is when I was like, oh, that's kind of funny that I did that.

That's great. I love that story. That's really, really cool. So we want to wrap up with a few kind of fun questions before we do that, though. Are there specific messages that you want to share with kids or young athletes that just are important for young athletes or kids who are trying things out? Important for them to hear.

I think a couple key things for my career has really been to focus on the process and not the outcome. So focus on those small little things that you need to do each and every day to get to your ultimate goal. I think too many times we focus on winning, losing, what would happen if this happens or that happens, and you start just psyching yourself out like that instead of just focusing on, you know, these are the small things. Like, I know this about my opponent. I have to do X, Y, Z, and that's it, you know. So, again, focus on that small. The small process goals to help you get to your. Your ultimate goal, and then again, just setting goals for yourself. So having those goals. I like to write things down. I'm really big on writing things down. I feel like it just makes it that much more like, you know, I'm committing to this type thing.

Well, you wrote down that Adrienne would be your coach.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. So just about writing things down. And I usually put, like, if I'm training for a tournament, I'll put it somewhere where I can see it. So it's just that constant reminder, you know, what it is that I'm working towards. But I think those are some key things. And then the last thing would probably be, you know, depending on the situation. You know, one of my favorite quotes is, it's not about what happens to you that matters. It's about how you react to what happens to you that counts. So, you know, for me, my Olympics in 2016 was not ideal. Right. I was in a really shitty situation. I was in a hospital bed. I could have got really upset in that moment and given up. Right. But it was just about how did I react to that. I was able to just like, you know what, try to conserve my energy, do what I could, go out there and still try to perform and. Right. So how are you going to handle that situation? You know, what are you going to do when a bad situation comes? Right. So I think those are probably the key things.

And it makes you that kind of perspective. Being aware of how you react also allows you to embrace the potential that maybe it's all supposed to be the way that that happened.

Yeah.

You don't know what, what's to come. So, you know, maybe that was all there for a reason. So do you have any favorite book or movie recommendations that you like that our listeners might want to enjoy?

Well, my. I love reading, like sports psychology books. Welcome to my world. I love it.

Have you read Flow?

No, I haven't.

Oh, my gosh. It's like Michele Michaliakov or Chekhesh. Michele. It's the hardest. I know it's the hardest name ever.

It is.

It's a mouthful, but it's called Flow and it's, it's pretty deep. It's a little bit technical, but fantastic. For, for sports psychology, competition psychology, any sort of psychology. For, for what is what we would refer to in sport as flow, Sports psychologists will refer to as flow or the zone. Different zone, but different.

So I think you'd like that.

So reading Sports Psychology. I'll stop interrupting. Here we go.

What would you recommend?

Yeah, not me. That wasn't the question.

For me.

I think it's the Pursuit of Excellence is one good one. I'm trying to think of what I'm reading right now. I can't even think of the name of it. I want to say it's champions mindset. I don't know if that's exactly the name of it, but yeah, that I either read sports psychology books or I read documentary type. Like, I love reading about other athletes and like their journey and their story.

That's why we do this.

Yeah, like Serena Williams. I love, I love, like hearing her stories. But yeah, I, yeah, biographies. But yeah, I don't know. I think like, the Serena documentary is really good.

Is that on Netflix?

I don't think it's Netflix. I think it's crave. Ah, yeah. I know so many different networks now.

And what do you, what kind of music do you listen to to get yourself pumped up before a fight? What do you, what's your thing?

So it's funny, most people think that, that you listen to music, you get pumped up for a fight. I'm the complete opposite. I actually. Yeah, no, I can't, I can't listen. Like sometimes I can listen to a little bit, but honestly, I'm not really a music person. Like, music doesn't like drive my, I don't know, energy or anything.

Like that musical notebook right behind you?

Yeah, well, that's my husband's learning piano. Not even me, I've done it when I was a kid. But I actually will listen to like classical music and do like some breathing exercises and stuff before because I feel like if I'm nice and calm and I'm relaxed and my breathing under control, then everything else flows from that and I can react better because I'm not like over excited. Right. Like that's how I find my flow.

Excellent. Do. And is there a favorite composer or. And do you. Do you follow a specific style of breathing? Like a box breathing or a 8, 4, 2 or what's your style?

So I actually do. Oh my God. What am I trying to say? So I'll go through my, my whole body and do like a warm up. So I start with like five deep breaths, which it's usually kind of like a breathing in for six, hold it and then out. But then I focus on like. So I'll focus on my feet and it's like, okay, think about the circulation, think about like the blood flow. And then I'll kind of go up to my calves and then whatever my knees. And so I'm kind of doing like that type of a warm up before I actually start my warmup. Yeah, I'm trying to think of the name of it. I don't know why I'm blanking on it right now.

Really connecting with your entire body through breath and focus.

Yeah. Autogenic training, I think is what they were, what it's called officially, but beautiful.

And then any composers.

I listen to a mix?

Like.

Yeah, sometimes like I. Yeah, I listen to just a complete mix. Sometimes I actually listen to like Christian music. So it's more like a worship song because it's nice and like relaxed and slow. But there's kind of some motivational things in there, so. Yeah.

Amazing. And what about favorite. Well, this is another thing I meant to ask earlier, which is in terms of making weight. So various sports that I've either worked with or we've interviewed. If people have to make weight, there's a lot of athletes who just are completely oblivious to that. But when it comes To Olympic lifting, wrestling, boxing. There's just a number of sports that there's either an aesthetic or there's a weight class. So with making weight, are you typically staying pretty close to your competitive weight throughout the year or are you off by a certain amount or what's your. What works best for you?

So I try to stay as close to my weight as a possible and probably a little more right now just because it's been, I don't know how long since I've had to actually make weight, but normally I fight at like 112 and I try to. The highest I usually go is like a 119. So it's, it's more of, you know, as the intensity of the training picks up. My body basically knows what to do now because I've been doing it for so long, long. But I know I can just cut a couple things. It's usually like a couple carbs out of my diet and then basically usually come within like two pounds of my weight. And then when I get to competition, it's like, you know, one little sweat the night before and I'm on weight.

Yeah. And it might even end up in those scenarios when you're that close, sometimes it's just the last bit of training or nervous energy. It'll bring you right where you need to be.

Yeah, exactly.

So do you have a favorite maybe pre bout meal? Do you have a favorite post competition meal? I love asking about favorite desserts because I'm the dessert queen here. So what are your favorite foods?

So my pre competition meal is always instant oatmeal. I'm only, only. I only do this though because I'm usually traveling. So it's got to be something I can bring that's consistent. So I usually do the instant oatmeal. I will do rice cake with peanut butter and honey and I do a banana. And those are kind of like things that I know. Yeah, I know they're gonna sit well and I know that, you know, I can fight off of that. My posts is usually like, I love pasta, I love bread. Yeah, I'm definitely a foodie. I absolutely love food. Throughout all of this, you know, staying at home extra time, I have been. I've gotten really into baking. So I now have like an absolutely delicious cookie recipe. But I love cookies.

Yeah.

Yeah. Oh, I've figured it out now. It's like everywhere I go, if I try a cookie, I'm like, not my cookies. So, yeah, no, I've been making, I've been making lots of cookies. So I would say cookies. I mean, I do like cinnamon rolls. Cinnamon rolls are pretty good too.

I'm on the search for the right recipe for like a sticky bun, cinnamon roll kind of combo.

Yeah, yeah, those are good. I've made them a couple times throughout this process. Staying home.

Yeah. We might be hitting you up for a cookie recipe. You never know.

Yeah. Oh, you let me know. I have. I've got the best recipe.

Amazing. Well, thank you. So is there anything else you want to add to share with with our listeners and also tell us. There was the Champions charity Champions for charity.

Recess Guardians.

Yeah, there was another one, the Recess Guardians that you have championed in the past as well. Can you tell listeners a little bit about that and where to find, where to find, where you hang out on social or what that looks like for you?

Yeah. So Recess Guardians is kind of an in school program. So right now it's all online. So it's all virtual. It's a free program. You can look it up. Recess guardians.org and it's all about getting kids active and getting them playing. So it's physical activity program, teaching them like leadership skills, you know, sportsmanship, proper communication, that type of thing. So it's a great program. And again we have completely revamped it so it can be at a distance, social, distance play. So it's a great resource for teachers. Yeah. So they can find that@recessguardians.org and then for me, I'm, you know, I use probably Instagram most and it's just my name. So at Mandy Bujo. My website as well is mandybujot.com I usually I have someone who writes like articles for me. So as we're preparing for things, it's kind of just like a different insight into, you know, what we're working on, what that looks like or just kind of try to share things that normally don't get asked in other interviews so that there can just people can just learn a little bit more about me and about the sport.

So cookie recipes, right?

It's all there, right?

Not quite. Not on my website.

Amazing. Well, we really appreciate your time and this has been so much fun just to learn a little bit more about what your whole sport is like for you and what the experience is and some of your past accomplishments. So thank you for sharing everything with us. It's been such a pleasure to have you on.

Thanks for having me.

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