Melissa Humana-Paredes Beach Volleyball World Champion

This is episode 308 of the Empowered Team Podcast. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast, where we explore how to optimize your performance in career, sport, and life. And now, your host, executive coach, and life strategist, Kari Schneider.

Welcome. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast. This is a very, very special, special episode. It's a throwback. It's an episode from four years ago. For those of you who have been following us from the very beginning, you know that our podcast started as the Empowered Athlete podcast. The first 100 episodes were almost all athlete interviews or physical performance and mindset. We put Mindset Mondays in there regularly. However, we evolved over time to really start to serve leaders in business, leaders in life, not only those who were performing physically at the top tier in the world. However, we want to throw back to an amazing interview. Why? Because we interviewed this person four years ago, right at the time where the Olympics were delayed. It was in. It was Covid, and all the things were happening in Covid. And we want to highlight this interview because now this person has won a silver medal at the Olympics. So we think it's a very, very important lesson and time for you to see all the work that goes on in the background in the past in order to get to a result like an Olympic silver medal. So I'm very, very excited to reintroduce to you, Melissa Humana parades to the Empowered Team Podcast. I hope you enjoy this. There are so many insights. Not only the work, the setbacks with COVID the mindset, the work on the mindset, body image issues, all of the things that someone has to overcome in order to get to the top level of the world. She also comes from a background of two parents who have high levels of sport, and not only volleyball, but also ballet, and we're immigrants into Canada. So there's so much here. I think you'll love this interview. Listen in, enjoy it, and see how you can apply the lessons that she shares to your life because they're so pertinent. And you'll be able to see how you can go from wherever you are to whatever your goal is, just like she has with an Olympic silver medal.

Hello, everyone. Welcome to the Empowered Athlete Podcast. And I'm especially excited for this one because we're talking volleyball. We've got Melissa Humana Paradez with us, and my lovely wife, Kari Schneider as well. Ladies, welcome to the show. Let's get into it. Melissa, how are you doing? How's Covid? Life on the West Coast?

Oh, it's beautiful on the West Coast. It's strange, but we're adapting and we're pivoting and I'm actually heading home Friday back to Toronto and I'm excited for that because I haven't been home since January. So.

Yeah, that's a lot of time. Now tell us why, like has that been. Because partially Covid, partially training. Partially. So what are all the reasons around you kind of being that far for that long when there's not competition and.

Yeah, totally. So I always usually go home or go back to California in January. So I leave home in January. We prepping, we do our pre seasons in California. That's my training base and it has been for the last four years. So, you know, we were just prepping for the Olympics as we were planning and then, you know, March hit and Covid hit and so in March I left and I went up to Victoria, that's where my boyfriend lives. And I went to go quarantine with him. And it was just supposed to be for a couple weeks because back in March we didn't really know the state of the world. And I ended up just bringing the carry on with me. And I was there for four months. I was there for four whole months with a carry on and last more than two weeks.

It'll be fine. We just did a quick little trip. It'll be nice on the downturn, a.

Little, a little break. You know, we'd still been planning to go to some competitions. The Olympics were still on. And then as soon as I landed, you know, borders were closing, Olympics were canceled or postponed and my world got flipped upside down. So I spent basically all of the summer in Victoria and then kind of towards the end there in like July, beginning of August, AVP put on this one off Champions cup series. And so we got invited to that. So we got invited to play in that little event which was, that was in la, in Long Beach. And you know, it was, it was very well done. They followed all the proper protocols and it was a smaller event. So there wasn't as many teams or as many people. It was honestly just so much fun to play in that because it was getting to a point where I had spent so much time away from training, away from my routine, away from my normal life, that I was starting to lose myself. Like I was going crazy and I like didn't recognize who I was anymore. I had like identity crisis all the time. And so when this came, I was like, yes, I'm going to fly back to la. I'm going to partner up with my, my Sarah Again. And we're just going to compete and start training for this. Yeah, I love her partner.

It's my Sarah. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And so we reunited, which was so lovely. And we did that. So that was about a two month long process. And then after that I had to kind of decide, well, am I going to go back to Victoria or am I going to go back home? And at that point I was coming from la, which is a bit of a hotbed for Covid. I didn't feel comfortable going back home. I do live with my parents back in Toronto. And then being, you know, a little bit higher risk, I thought it would be safer if I just went back to Victoria and quarantine there. Then, you know, after two weeks in Victoria, I was like, I don't want to leave. So I spent a few more weeks there and then at one point my mom was like, you have to come home now. And so I was like, okay, fine, I guess I will come home. And here we are. I'm actually in Vancouver visiting my brother and then just for a couple days and then I'm finally going home after nine months, eight months away.

So if we back up for a second and first of all, is it normal for, you know, in the beach volleyball world, for Canadian beach volleyball players, is California always the place to go or is that just specific to you because of a coach or what's the situation, what's the lay of the land for why California would ordinarily be where you train?

Yeah, I think both those reasons, actually. So one, where Sarah and I are at in volleyball Canada and on the national team, we have the ability to be able to choose where we want to train. So until you reach that kind of like a team level, you have to be stationed in Toronto, which is where our training environment is, because we have kind of, you know, earned that privilege. We pick wherever we want to train. And California just seemed like the best office and the best training environment. We do have a couple ties as well. One, our coach is from California, and two, Sarah and her husband live in California, so they bought a place there and that's their home. And you know, California, you can train there year round. Toronto, you can't. And you have the really great training partners. You have a bunch of American teams around you that, you know, you're constantly training with and competing against. And so the level is a lot higher and so it really does push you. And yeah, you know, it's just, it was just close enough to home to like not feel like it's so Far away. But, yeah, California. I spend pretty much nine months of the year away from home, either in California or traveling the world.

But I was gonna say, for some people, you know, they would hear that California might seem like it's a million miles away, but for you, it feels fairly close because you're accustomed to playing all over the world, and in those environments, then you kind of feel like you're on North American soil, you're on home soil. So familiar to you that it feels like a second home or another kind of home, like, venue for you.

That's exactly it.

Walk us through kind of, you know, and some of the athletes that we've talked to and just in watching everything unfurl with COVID walk us through what the emotional roller coaster was like. You know, just in realizing that you get back to B.C. and things are shutting down and what. You know, what are you. What are you thinking in terms of the Olympics? And what was. What were you planning first before COVID What we. What were you thinking was going to happen for you and Sarah? And then what actually was going through your mind once you realized that, okay, maybe the Olympics will still happen, maybe it'll calm down by then, and then realizing that they're postponing it, it's just not gonna happen.

Yeah. Like, oh, gosh, the roller coaster that I was on, it's still going, but it was crazy. Gosh. Okay. So back in March, we had been preparing for this tournament in Puerto Vallarta, Mexico. That was the first tournament of the season. We had been gearing up for that for a few months, and it was. We were excited. We were feel, you know, it's Olympic season, so you feel prepped, you feel primed, and we had really good momentum from the world championships last year. So, you know, we were kind of sticking to our plan. And this was honestly two weeks out from. We had our flights booked and everything, and this is two weeks out from our flight. It's when I flew back to Toronto and flew back. Or, sorry, flew back to Victoria and flew back to Canada because the tournament had been canceled. And at that point, I was actually slightly relieved that I was back on home soil because I was afraid that I. There were rumors that, you know, borders were gonna close and this was gonna get really serious, and I shut out. Yeah. I didn't want to get stuck in the States where I wasn't really covered. You know, I'm not a citizen, so I'm not a. You know, I wanted to be back where I knew I would protect it. So I went back home, and I landed, got through the border and made it. Everyone was like, are you gonna get through the border? So it was a relief when I got home, and I was like, okay, sweet. I'll be here for a couple some time with my boyfriend, who I don't get to see very often, and then I'll go back and continue training. So that was kind of like a nice little, like, honeymoon vacation period throughout this whole pandemic. And then it got really real. And, yeah, borders were closing, numbers were escalating. And then I think within the next couple days, our whole season got canceled. Before the Olympics got canceled, Our whole season got canceled. So I was like, wow, my life just opened wide open, and I don't know what to do. And at that point, we were still training, but we could not go anywhere. All the gyms were closed. And so I was in my living room, you know, with a couple of weights here and there, that my boyfriend, who also plays for Team Canada, he's on the rugby national team. And so we were able to kind of get a bunch of weights together in our living room. And that was our gym. And so I was still training for the Olympics out of my living room.

Pause for a second, though, because. So you're training for the Olympics. But I know this. That if I'm very particular about preparation and how I feel and what I need, I know I need to be performing best leading up to a competition, and that includes competition that you need to be serving in a game situation to feel that pressure and to feel it. And so your season's gone. The Olympics you believe are still there at this time. How are you dealing with that uncertainty? Just from the training perspective and your touch and your field and your game feel, and. And you said you had momentum coming into that time. That's an understatement. I mean, you guys were. You're the team. You know, you're favored for a medal. How did you deal with that? Where you got to be thinking, everything's coming together. You know, we're playing well. We've got confidence. And to have this thrown at you this time. Was there any, why me? Why us? Why now? Thoughts, or how did you handle that?

Definitely, I think that came actually after the Olympics were postponed, before then, which I didn't have much time before they were postponed. I think it was about a week or so. I was still trying to be quite positive. You know, if you know me, I'm a positive person. I like to kind of think on the bright side. I find Joy in most things. And so I was like, you know what? This is okay. Sarah and I will still be okay. You know, we'll be one of those teams that, you know, we can handle adversity. We'll come out of this. We'll go to the Olympics, and we're still. We're still gonna kill it. Like, we have our.

Everyone's in the same boat.

Everyone's in the same boat.

Everyone else is up against that same kind of loss of preparation.

Yeah. But I definitely did have moments where I'm like, this is so unfair. You know, I've been working for four years to be the best I can be at this moment at the Olympic. This is a dream of mine since I was young. This is my first Olympics that we've already qualified for. The only team that's qualified. You know, this was like, everything was working out the way had envisioned and the way that I was planning and the way that I'd always dreamed. And I was like, and now I'm in my living room preparing for the Olympics. Like, how unfair is this? And then I would just try and, like, put it back into perspective and be like, you know what? There are some countries in Europe, like Italy, who they can't do. Like, they're in a much worse position than we are. And so I'd be like, you know what? I'm grateful to be here in Canada. I'm grateful that I still have this place that I can somewhat train in. And so was all over the place, I was, like, going back and forth between feeling sorry for myself and then trying not to feel too sorry for myself. And then the Olympics got postponed, and I remember that night so vividly. We found out on Instagram through a post, I think from CBC Sports or CBC Olympics or something.

And I'm sorry, the Canadian Federation announced prior to the Olympics being canceled that they weren't attending. So. Which are you talking about?

Sorry. I'm talking about that. Yeah, you're right. Yeah. It was that announcement that we found out on Instagram, and I was at dinner with my boyfriend and his. And his dad, and it was just a small little dinner, and it was really, really nice and going well until the announcement. And my boyfriend showed me the phone, and I. I started crying, and he was an emotional wreck as well. And he had all of his teammates calling him, and I had, you know, a lot of volleyball players and my teammates calling me and messaging me, and.

I was, sorry, is he sevens or fifteens?

Sevens.

So he's qualified as well, then they've qualified as well. Yes. Okay.

Yeah, yeah. And this is his first Olympics as well, but also it's gonna be his last. He was planning on retiring. And so, you know, this came as a huge shock. And the thing is, I. And I'm a part of the athletes commission for the Canadian Olympic Committee. So there were some discussions about, you know, having the Olympics being postponed, and I was kind of. I was kind of preparing for that kind of conversation and that kind of announcement as well. And then this came out and I just kind of lost it. But then quickly, I think, like, the next morning I woke up and I was like, okay, I understand the decision. I understand why it's important that we take a stand for it. It's important that this, you know, we realized that this is beyond sports. You know, this is about people's lives. It's about. It's like people over profit, essentially. And they wanted to put pressure on the ioc. And so very quickly, the IOC eventually did postpone the Olympics, which was a huge relief, honestly, because there was concern of it being canceled altogether. And that's the worst case scenario. So again, we're just kind of like another roller coaster, another huge down, and then another up, because we're like, okay, well, at least we still have a chance. And then for a long time, I didn't allow myself to really grieve and kind of go through that process of, like, mourning what could have been and what should have been. You know, there's like, throughout the whole summer, there was those milestones where you look at your calendar and you're like, well, I should have been here in Switzerland playing, you know, or I should have been here in Tokyo playing. And so it was hard to kind of just like, realize that no longer my life. And I can't be dwelling on that. I have to kind of live in the present, which, as an athlete is really difficult because you plan your life in, like, four year increments, and your life is planned out years before it actually happened. And so I've never really had to live day by day. So it was a whole new world, and there was just so much uncertainty. Eventually it did catch up to me and I, you know, I was up. I was a mess. And I was just like an emotional roller coaster for a while. I would snack, I eat my feelings. So I was eating a lot, just constantly going to the pantry. But, yeah, there were times where I would always have to try and convince myself, like, you know, there are people that have it worse than you. And I would try and just like, minimize what I was going through. And at one point, I was talking to my sports psychologist, and he was like, it's okay to be upset about this. It's okay to feel and cry and, you know, don't feel guilty about being upset about this. You also lost a lot. And I just wouldn't let myself kind of go there. And then I did, and it was really good. It was really therapeutic. And then I was like, okay, that's in the past. What can I do now moving forward? And I think that really helped me kind of give myself some goals and a trajectory and work on some things, which is something I'm so used to. And so we did. We broke it down, and at this point, we're still living out of our living rooms and trying to work out of there, and we're FaceTiming our teammates and our coaches and our sports sakes. So it was definitely a challenge. We pivoted. And I think we. I think we will come out of this stronger. But, yeah, it is like, grieving. Yeah.

Well, and to be able to be with it and have that advice from your. From your sports psychologist at that time, because you're layering the guilt on top of what you're already feeling, and that just feels worse. And that, you know, well, I. You know, how can I feel this bad when they've got it so bad and, you know, all these other things, it's just so hard to justify feeling how you feel. But how you feel is how you feel, period, you know, and letting yourself do that is part of the process. But one. One thing that makes me wonder about is that athletes are so. Athletes at your level have to be so incredibly focused on your sport, your training. There's so many elements that go into a quadrennial. But now that everything opened up and you look and there's just, like, all of the space in your calendar, did it open up some fun? Kind of, like, Kind of. Oh, I want to try that, because I've never been able to practice crochet or what, you know, whatever.

But, like, that's what I was thinking.

Right. I thought you did. I knew I was asking it for you.

Macrame, actually.

Who knows? Whatever. Anyway, open up something that, like, you never have been able to try or you've wanted to, or you got to spend more time on something that you just never get to. You know, what. What was there for you that way that was just different than being the athlete all the time?

Totally. And so many different things that I didn't even imagine would kind of come out of this, and it really is a blessing in disguise. But, yeah, so one, the opportunity to just kind of, like, slow down. And this was the first time in my life where I did. I didn't have to be grinding. And I think, you know, we tried to take this as, like, a sign to just recover and let the body kind of rejuvenate, because I was still trying to go hard, and I would go for these super long runs that I wasn't ever used to just to try and, like, stay active. And then at one point, I was like, but for what? Like, why don't we just find some new things that I enjoy and that will still keep me active? And so I found a couple different, like, forms of activity that I'd never really done before. Like, a lot of, like, dancing, like, dance classes. I did a Zumba class with my mom for Mother's Day, and then just kind of kept that going, and it was like a zoom Zumba class.

Was your boyfriend doing Zumba with you too?

He did not join. The Zumba.

Sevens is so demanding cardiovascularly. Like, he's got to say Zumba. All the patterns, for sure.

I tried convincing him. Yeah, no, he did not get on board with that, unfortunately. And I. You know, I actually found a real love for Pilates, which is something I never had really done before, but it was recommended to me. And this kind of allowed me to work on a lot of those imbalances I had and a lot of weaknesses I had prior to the Olympics, especially in my shoulder, my ankle, just, like, ongoing things that were able to keep me going. And then I started baking a ton. I'm not a great baker, but I really wanted to perfect the best banana bread, and I think I did. I had a lot of misses. Oh, nope.

We're gonna have to have a little bake off, I think, because banana bread is my favorite. And so I'm always pushing Kari. She's always experimenting and tweaking, and she's got a recipe that's.

You nailed it.

It's. It's pretty good. But as you know. But as you know, some people prefer a more dry banana bread, some people for moist. So it depends where you fall on the spectrum of your banana bread. So it's hard to say that there's one, but I do as well, so.

Love that. I love that. Yeah. The more bananas, the better, essentially, is what I learned throughout quarantine. What else? Oh, I actually have a YouTube channel. Yeah. If you take anything this podcast, it is more bananas. The Better.

So on your YouTube channel, what do you. What do you like? You launched into that. Is that. Was that a first for you or has this been going on for a while? You have to give it more attention.

You used to vlog. I saw something. You started vlogging and you were celebrating that.

Yes, yes.

Pretty hilarious.

Oh, thank you. I appreciate that. I'm blushing. I actually started a couple years back just on tour for fun, just kind of show people behind the scenes. Because a lot of what we do on tour, people don't really see, they don't really understand. A lot of it's glamorous, a lot of it's not glamorous. And so I'd kind of show the real side of what it's like to be a pro athlete on tour. And it was fun. It was just kind of gave me something to do on the side. But I kind of really wanted to take it up more seriously in quarantine because I had so much time. Even though I didn't have a lot of content to show because we were literally in our apartment, I kind of started to learn, like editing how to make videos a little bit more professional looking or just smoother, and just started working with a bunch of different programs, which was super cool. And I'm still learning and it's a lot of fun. And it's kind of like I find like my little hobby on the side that I really want to get better at, whether or not I actually do something with YouTube, I just kind of like the idea of creating this kind of art form or storytelling in a way that's different. I've always wanted to be artistic in some capacity, and it just never worked for me. I can't sing, I can't really dance. I suck at drawing and painting.

And I bet your mom was a dancer, though.

She was. And I inherited none of that.

None of that. So you got all the volleyball from your dad?

Yeah, yeah. I'm an athlete through and through. Yeah. So that was kind of fun to explore. What else? Yeah, I got to spend time with my boyfriend, which was nice. Very rare. I mean, as, you know, as an athlete, you know, long distance relationships, you're traveling all over the place. So this was kind of time we could spend together. And yeah, it was nice.

So you got that creative outlet, you got the connection time, you got the rejuvenating time, you got all those things. If we back. If we back up a whole bunch, was it always beach? If you think of yourself as, you know, the little one who maybe learned that you couldn't dance as well as your mom or whatever it was at the time. Was it volleyball that you kind of aspired to, or was it. Was it a different sport? What was kind of on your radar as a kid?

Yeah, it was beach volleyball from the beginning. And I tried a bunch of different things.

And why beach not indoor?

Yeah, because of my dad. And it was because of, like, what I was exposed to at a young age. And, you know, I was four years old when him and Marquise and John Child brought back the bronze medal right from the Olympics. So I was in diapers and I would be at their practices or I would, like, watch him. I remember so vividly he gave us a map, my brother and I. He gave us a map and he put little pushpins on all the countries and cities that he was traveling to when he was on the world tour on their way to the Olympics. And we would attach a string to it every time he would move from a new country, and we would get a postcard from that country. And so I just remember, like, being so immersed in that life and just really following that Olympic journey. And that dream has been a part of my life for so long. And I just latched on super early. I mean, how could you not? Like, beach volleyball is so much fun. The environment so contagious and inviting. You're chasing the sun, you've got music going. It's just. It's kind of like a big family barbecue backyard party. And I love that. Like, I loved having another family, you know, and so beach live was always it for me, which was the anomaly. And it was. It was lonely because none of my other friends did that. They always did indoor. And so I was kind of like the odd one out. And so at one point, I ended up. I picked up indoor volleyball. And that was mostly for the social scene because I wanted to be with my friends and I wanted to be a part of a team. But I was always a beach player at heart. You know, I would get chirped for how slow my hands are in the indoor game. And, you know, with all my roll shots on the indoor game, they're like, what are you doing? Hit the ball. And yeah, so it was. It was beach for me at an early age. I did dabble here and there in like, some track and field, some cross country, some soccer. I was the only girl on a co ed soccer team, you know, but by, I'd say grade nine, I was fully committed to volleyball, beach volleyball.

And from a competitive standpoint, yeah, worked out. Yeah, I Just want to ask. And Kari's seen this a million times in all the hundreds of teams she's worked with. But in volleyball specifically, she'll divide a team up into three groups of, you know, horses, this group in the middle, and a bunch of donkeys in terms of work ethic. And that's just really. Kind of summarize it really quick. But she has a rule of thirds and that you have kind of a third of a team that's extremely hungry, motivated, they'll work their butts off. You have this group in the middle that could go either way and be influenced by either the top or the bottom of the group, and the bottom of the group, who are just happy to coast whenever they can, and if they don't have to pull their weight, they're fine with that. But on the beach, that's impossible. To be successful on the beach, it's absolutely impossible. So how. How did you. Because you can't be where you are without an insane amount of hard work and drive and motivation. How did that come about? Did it come about purely from this love of the environment and because that's one thing to love the environment and in that scene, but to rise to the top in it, it takes something else. Yeah, a bit of an edge. Right. You've got to. You gotta want to kick everybody's ass that you're facing across the net at the end of the day. So was that instilled from you? Did you have that from a young age, or how did you develop that part of your abilities?

It's really interesting because a lot of people assume that because of who my dad is and my upbringing, that it was pushed onto me, and it was, like, forced onto me. And I was, you know, like, drilled to be at practices. And, like, you know, we trained all the time, and it wasn't necessarily the case. Like, he was very good at making sure that this is what I wanted to do, and he also presented other opportunities for me and been like both my parents did. My mom tried to get me into ballet again. I wasn't a dancer, and much to her dismay, it just didn't stick. But I always came back to beach volleyball, and I think it did stem from the love of the game, just the love of feeling like you're a part of something bigger, you know, like, yes, you are. It is a competition and you're competing. But when you're on the beach, especially in Canada and in Toronto, Ashbridges Bay, it was always a family. Like, I always felt welcome there, and. And it was just something I always wanted to get back to. And so once I started to get more competitive with it, I just wanted to prove people wrong at some point because the more that I got into the sport, the more I kept hearing, you know, you're a little bit too small for this game.

How tall are you?

I'm five nine, so it's on the shorter end for sure on the world tour. And I always heard that, you know, I heard that I wouldn't be able to make it big internationally. And I got to a point where I wanted to prove them wrong. And the more that I started to improve myself and get stronger and, you know, get a feel for the game, I just wanted to keep pushing myself. So then it got to a point where I was like, I want to see how far I can go, like, what potential I can reach, you know, what is my full potential. And that kind of started at a young age and I had to make some difficult decisions, like missing some get togethers with friends after school or, you know, saying no to this and saying no to that. And I enjoyed kind of having to sacrifice something to put my whole heart into this one thing. And it was because I loved it. It did get to a point though, like by grade 12, where I was getting really lonely. And so in that year, I had to make kind of the tough decision if I wanted to continue or maybe pursue indoor volleyball, where I would be back with the team. I remember my grade 12 year, all my friends were on club teams and they were having the best time posting pictures of all their practices and travels. And I was by myself, one on one with a coach who I'm so grateful for at Beach Blast, in this empty warehouse by myself. It was smelly sometimes, and it's just. It was so unglamorous. And I would just go there and every day after school, and at some point I was like, I just. I feel like I'm missing something. And so I played four years of varsity volleyball at York University, and it probably one of the best decisions I made up to that point because I fell in love for the game. I know indoor volleyball is different than beach volleyball, but I just fell in love with it again and for different reasons. And I had the best four years there. I didn't complete my full eligibility because at that point I was put in a position where I had to decide, okay, I want to go full time pro beach volleyball. I have to do it full time. And so I quit my last year of university and then went full time. And I haven't looked back since.

Were you able to finish your degree when you were there?

Yes, I did. It took a little bit longer, mostly because I switched majors at some point and then I got a concussion in a game, and so that put me out a year. But I did finish my degree, which I'm so, so grateful for, because I honestly don't think I would have pursued sport had I. Not until I finished my degree. I think that's something that's really important. It was really important for me, and it was something my parents also prioritized as well, because I know what this life is like and I know that, you know, there is an end to it and. And I just wanted to be prepared for something after that. Yeah, I did my degree and I was also traveling the world, so it was tough, but it was fun and worth it.

So you mentioned the concussion. Now you can't have been in it this long without incurring injuries that have felt like probably the end of the world. Most athletes who get their very first ankle sprain, you know, it feels like the worst thing ever because they've never, you know, harmed that ligament yet. But the first ankle sprain, the concussion, like, were there times where you just thought, well, maybe, maybe I'm not gonna keep going. Or did you always just know, like, what was that? What were the major injuries or major situation? Because a year off of your sport is a long time when so much rides on every season. So what was that like for you?

I remember I had a really, really terrible ankle break in my last year of university. And it was probably the best thing that ever happened to me, though, because at that time I was trying to juggle both beach volleyball and indoor volleyball and my school. So I would have beach volleyball practices in the mornings at like 7 or 8am I'd have classes all day, and then I had indoor practices in the evening. So my body was drained. And it got to a point where I was. I was playing in this game and I just. My body was tired and it was giving up on me and I landed and I broke my ankle and I was out. I was pretty much in a cast for the rest of my. That was my final year. I didn't even get to play out my final year. And I tried to come back. I was basically in a boot and just like hobbling on the court. And that was also my last year, or that summer would have been my last year at the. The under 23 world championships. It was my last chance to. I was going to be too old after that summer to play. And so that was my goal, was to kind of get back to that, to get back ready and play for that, for beach volleyball. But it was a sign that I was just. I was. I was overburdening myself. I was trying to do too much, and I really needed to kind of focus, respect my body, treat it nicely. And that's when I made the decision to have to commit to one and really just take care of myself. And that injury, I'm still honestly recovering from it. I still have nagging ankle issues from it, and it taught me a lot. At one point I, you know, I think it was even the following summer after that, I still had like, this much, like a super thick amount of tape just around my ankle just so I could jump in the sand. Because we don't have shoes, we can't wear ankle braces. And so, yeah, that ankle injury was really dejecting for a while because I was like, am I ever going to be able to play without tape? Am I ever going to be able to walk normally? And I am getting to that point for sure, where I don't even think about my ankle anymore. But it's been an ongoing thing, and at times you just feel dejected, like you can't get any better, like it's just not going to go away. And then you kind of almost like sometimes you feel like you're going to give in to your own injury and you just kind of have to keep fighting to get better and to get stronger. But that was definitely the biggest one that taught me a lot about my own mental strength and the importance of my recovery and just my body and making sure that I'm taking care of myself first, you know.

Such a positive outlook. And I'm sure that that has served you in so many ways, because what I see a lot of is that the people who can look back on something that was so devastating, so traumatizing, so potentially career ending, and be able to say, that was the best thing that could have happened. That was the best thing that could have happened. Because that's basically what's happened, is that you realize you see so much of the good that came from, and there's so many athletes that. That becomes the career ender right there. There's so many that. That's it. They just. They see. They can only see how devastating it is. They cannot see to try and keep going and to try and push through to get to that place that looks like looking back going, wow, if that hadn't happened, then this this, this, and this amazing thing wouldn't have happened. So kudos to you for really being able to go through the long haul and be able to see it that way. And even if, you know, even if all your dreams hadn't come true and that ankle injury, you still strike me as one who would be able to say, you know, I'm so grateful that happened because then I discovered blank and, you know, whatever it was, even if it ever ended your career, but you'd be able to look back on it without bitterness, but rather with the lesson that you learned and what you got from it, because there's still the gifts to be had.

I appreciate that.

That's huge. And your concussion, there are so many now concussions, I mean, unlike if I think of 20 years ago in sport, people would be getting concussions left and right and they would not be diagnosed and it would be, you know, they got their bell rung, especially in football. That would be the lingo. They got their bell rung, you're fine, you know, can you shake it off?

Kind of thing.

Are you hurt or are you injured? Those would be some of the ways of looking at it or dealing with it. Now there's such a greater awareness of the severity of what concussions can cause, both physically, emotionally, long term, you know, it's a brain injury. So what was that like for you and how have you come through it?

Yeah, it was really strange because I didn't honestly think I had a concussion. I'd never felt anything like that before. But also because volleyball is a non contact sport, a lot of what you think and what you hear is like, wait, how did you get a concussion in volleyball? Are you sure it's a concussion? Are you sure you're just not making this up? And so like, you second guess yourself too, and you're like, I don't know, how did I. It's just a big ball that comes at you fast. Like, how do you get concussed from that? But it was, it was crazy. I'm fortunate it only lasted like the severe symptoms only lasted a few months where, you know, you're in a dark room, everything. You're super sensitive to everything. I couldn't look at screens. I didn't want to laugh, I didn't want to see. I just didn't want light and you're just nauseous. It's honestly just like the worst hangover. And it was awful for the first few months and I was out. This was 2016. It was the year actually of the Olympics in Rio. And I remember there was an Olympic test event in Rio. I think it must have been in April or something. And my partner and I, at the time, we had our flights booked and we were going to that, and I was a few months away from that. I was still kind of feeling some symptoms, but I didn't want to cancel. I didn't want to back down. I wanted to go to this Olympic test event. And I got on the flight, and I still wasn't cleared yet. The plan was that we would go to the Olympic test event, and all of our doctors came along with us because it was the Olympic test event, and I would get cleared there. And, you know, it was a couple days before the competition was happening. I still wasn't cleared yet. And I was like, oh, my God, what did I do? Am I even gonna be able to play? I was like, should I lie about these symptoms? Like, what do I do? And then they put me through, like, the ultimate. And I passed. And I was like, just in the nick of time. I passed, and I was there, and I was fine, and I played. And I think we finished fifth at the time, which was good for us. And then I was fine for the rest of the season. But then that also taught me so much about the importance of your brain and your mental health and how to treat your head nicely, how not to take it for granted. And so, again, something that I also thought look back on was like, I'm glad that happened, because it taught me a lot.

But again, I mean, really, there's a lot of. A lot of players, a lot of athletes who would look at it and be like, it was the most. It was the most horrible thing. I was out for months, you know. You know, it was awful. I had it so bad. And yet you're saying I was so lucky. I was lucky that it was only a few months and that it wasn't longer. So, again, that, you know, that's going to be an attitude that, for other athletes, listening, that really carries you forward and keeps you finding the good things that are going to help you get where you want to go. So that's huge. What are some of the things that you. You know, I mean, your sport can be a grind. There's the travel, there's the intense work. There's the Just constantly tweaking anything that you have to do. If there's errors being made, what do you. What are the things that you really miss, though? You know, if you're looking at, you know, what. What are the kind of. I don't know, what's the thing that maybe you miss that you thought you'd never miss?

Oh, from, from sports. Like, from competing. I didn't realize how much I love and need this sport to feel, like, alive, which is. It's like a little concerning because it's like, I don't want to depend on it too much, but it brings me so much joy and happiness and direction and purpose. And it's, it's, you know, it's. I do miss the travel, even though at the end of the season I'm like, I never want to get on a plane again. And I honestly do miss the hotel food right now. Like, I miss so much about that lifestyle. But what I miss the most about it is, like, how I feel on the court and how I feel when I'm out there. And I know I'm getting better and I know I'm working on something. And I know I have a goal. Whether it's a long term goal, a short term goal, just a goal that I want to, you know, hit these targets in practice, or it's a goal that I want to win the gold medal, the Olympics. Like, having something like that makes life so much more fulfilling and purposeful and enjoyable. I found it really, really, really difficult to, like, not have that anymore for a period of time until I had to really kind of create it and manifest it myself, which is, you know, what I think most athletes and we all had to do at some point during this pandemic is kind of pivot, get creative and cultivate your own goals in a different capacity. And I missed. I just missed competing, which I was really glad that I had that opportunity. To the avp, it was. I felt so alive. I was so out of shape. I was not ready to compete at all. But I was so happy just to be there, just to, like, be touching a ball, have my toes in the sand, and just to be competing. I would die. Every single game, I would die. But I was just happy. I was happy to be there. So great.

So, so amazing. So you.

I just want to ask you, you mentioned earlier in the conversation that when you couldn't play, you literally said it was an identity crisis, like 30 minutes ago. Quoting you, because I wrote it down, but I wrote it down because an identity crisis as soon as I retired. So you were just basically forced into retirement with COVID for a short period. And it should end, it will end, but you're forced to technically take a little break. And the way you describe it, you know, you. There's a struggle There. And I think you're already seeing the silver lining of discovering the interest, like we had in conversation of other things that really make up Melissa and who you are. But clearly volleyball is interwoven into your life. And I just can, I can, you know, we all know that when you stop playing professionally, I'm sure you're gonna probably still want to play and be in touch with the game and, and somewhat. Whereas I know for myself, when I was done, I was done and haven't really played. But do you, do you see, can you see with this separation from the game, how tightly your identity is woven into it? Has it been a bit of a wake up call that way?

Yeah, it absolutely has been. And again, like, I kind of see it in a, both a negative and a positive way. I think it, it really also forced me to kind of look at life after sport. Like, what do I have after sport? Who am I without volleyball, right? Like, what am I going to do when I don't have volleyball anymore? You know, what are my other interests? What are my hobbies? And I'm not just the volleyball girl, which is something that I always been told I was growing up, right. And I love to be known as that. And so I really kind of had to play with the idea of, okay, who am I without sports? Like, who do I want to be without sports? What else do I want to do? And that was a really difficult question for me to answer because I didn't know and I still don't know and I. And I think it's just an ever evolving question. I think we're constantly changing, but yeah, it is. It's a little scary to have so much love and passion for one thing, that you just wholeheartedly put your life into it, right? Like for the last 27 years of my life, it's been volleyball. And for the next, you know, hopefully another eight years of this. I would like to do a couple more Olympic cycles. It's going to be volleyball and then after that, you know, I'll be mid-30s and I'm going to have to literally start all over again. I mean, you know exactly what that's like. You have to start all over again and you have to re. Identify yourself and find out who you are, are again, what you're interested in. And I actually, you know, Paul, I don't actually know if I will kind of dabble in the sport when I retire. I think when I retire it will be kind of a hard stop from the sport. I mean, I'll still be Engaged in the community. It's such a beautiful and tight knit community. But I think when I retire, I retire and it's really scary to kind of think about, but I loved having this opportunity to kind of question that and really challenge myself on, okay, you're more than just this, you know, you're more than just an athlete. You know, there's so much more to who we all are than just a label. And so another silver lining of this pandemic, which is something I've been really trying to do, is just find the beauty in that.

That's awesome.

It is. It is awesome. Because, yeah, it's that Paul's heard me ask this in some of the struggles that I've had in that can I be happy no matter what? So if I can't, if running was taken away from me and coaching or lifting are the things I really identify with that I really love, can I be happy no matter what? And what does it take? What does it take to be happy no matter what? And that's, it seems like a deep question, but when you start asking that, it's like, okay, well, I have to become a little more well rounded, a little less linear, a little less narrowly focused. But you know, you're talking about, you're talking about a long term, you've got a few more quads for your career in how you're envisioning and what you're focusing on within that. And this is specific to female athletes who go pro. And we see this, you know, volleyball players, you know, there's some court players in Europe who will take that year and not even take the year off really, but play somewhat through, be pregnant, have a child, get right back on the court as soon as they can. You know, do you see that? And you think of, you know, Kerri Walsh Jennings, in terms of how she's fit her children into her career, do you see that as maybe being within the time that you are, or is this, I mean, it might be. Wait, that. That's a big question. That might be something you do not want to answer right now. Maybe there's people, people in proximity, you don't need to hear that. But that can be private. But, you know, if you want to answer. Is that something that's occurred to you? Because it's different for men and it's a bigger consideration for women. And it's one of the things that I saw with the women's national indoor team that, you know, the men's team, when I worked with them, you got the same players for years and years and years, the women's team, there's much more turnover because they don't have as much financial security and they don't have. And there might be some family obligations or some family wants that they want to fulfill. So what are the considerations you have that way, just from a female pro athlete perspective?

Yeah, absolutely. This has been, you know, something I've thought about a lot. Definitely more recently. I know I want a big family or I want a family. You know, I grew up in a big family. I love families. I want to be a mother. And I'm not shy about talking about this because, you know, on my first day with him, I was like, just so you know, 2024 is. When is the earliest that I can have a kid? Okay. Nothing before that. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.

No, I'm kidding.

But that doesn't scare a guy off.

That, whoa, whoa, whoa.

Let me grab some dinner here.

Exactly. I was like, you're in for the long haul. But no, it is definitely a consideration that all female athletes think about whether or not you want to have a family. I think it's something that is on the top of your mind. It's on mind for sure. And I think once I started this quad for Tokyo is when I started to think about it. And towards the end of it, I was like, wow, if I want to have kids, you know, I would have to do it, not have to, but it would be ideal for me to do it after Paris 2024. And so you, again, your life is planned out in four years. Like, my life has always been planned out in four years according to Olympic cycles or according, to, you know, high school or university. It's always been four years. And so I thought. And I'm kind of planning for that trajectory of having a family after Paris, if it's feasible for me and my state of life at that time, and then make another run for it for LA 2028, which I had been planning to be my last Olympic cycle, knock on wood. Everything goes well. But, yeah, and then kind of make that run and be a mom and kind of juggle that. I think it's a beautiful thing when I see mothers pushing themselves and still striving for a goal after and, you know, just, you know, again, just not kind of succumbing to one identity, just having so many different, like, paths and avenues and interests and goals. And that's something I want to strive to do as well. But, yeah, I think a lot of people don't realize everything that women kind of have to sacrifice or take into consideration or plan around. And I think, you know, this particular situation, like having the Olympics postponed one year, I think that does actually mess with a lot of women's schedules who maybe were planning to have kids the year after the Olympics and then maybe go for another run, but now that next quad is shortened by three years, so their recovery time is shorter. And I don't think people really like fully understand all the different nuances to being a female athlete. And that's something you have to take into consideration. Thankfully, I'm not one of those women, but I know a few of my friends who were and now they kind of have to like change up their plans a little bit or, you know, it's just tough. It's just an added.

Literally revolves around the whole sport. The Olympic cycle.

Exactly.

I gotta ask a question. Just kind of continuing this thread that. Thank you so much for sharing all that. I think it's amazing for our listeners, especially female athletes out there, to hear that and just hear your perspective on it and how you. You're owning it and giving yourself options and choice and taking the power. And I noticed an amazing post that you had another issue that women have to deal with, especially on the beach. You know, everybody's looking at bodies and you did an amazing little post showing yourself defending a ball and another one showing basically the same position defending a ball. But in the second picture you're pointing out your. You have cellulite, showing your leg and saying, this is the real thing, this happens. And I'm an athlete, I love my body. And I just want to ask what, what inspired you to post that? Are you seeing body shaming? Are you seeing issues around females and their bodies and how they're perceived, how they think about themselves, how they're perceived by fans and spectators? What was the motivation for that? Because I think it's. I thought it was a fantastic thing that you did to put it out there that way, just to let everyone know to be okay in their own skin.

Yeah, I appreciate that. I think that that post was multiple fold. 1. I think women in general, whether you're an athlete or not, women in general, I think, have a lot of pressures to have this ideal body or to just, you know, look a certain way. And I think it stems at a really young age. And I know I have a few, quite a few young followers, female followers, and I wanted to show them what's real. I think social media can be a little detrimental and kind of dangerous at times. And I'm looked at I, you know, am a role model, and I'm looked at as having, you know, she's an athlete, she has a nice body. And, you know, all the pictures she poses, it's just there's. It's so nice. And I am definitely guilty of doing this as well. Where you see pictures of yourself, you're like, oh, I'm not gonna post that one. That's not that flattering. And so what you do see is not always real. And I think it's important to keep it real, not for yourself and for your own sanity, but also for people who follow you, especially for young girls and especially in the sport of beach volleyball, which is very sexualized. And I think we're all very brave to put ourselves out there like that. I mean, beach volleyball itself, you know, there are no subs. You're kind of out there. You're fully exposed. Your weaknesses are fully exposed, but you're also physically fully exposed. And I think there's a lot of hate that goes towards our uniforms. And personally, I love my uniform. I don't feel like I'm sexualized or demonized by it. I think it makes me feel powerful. I play in what I feel super strong in. If I want more coverage, I can wear more coverage. If it's cold, I'll put on leggings and a long sleeve. If it's 40 degrees out, I'm gonna wear a bikini. And so I play in what I feel most comfortable in. And I think it's important to kind of represent that and be a strong, powerful voice out there for young athletes. And I also think it's really easy for female athletes to kind of have the spotlight taken away from their performances and their athletic ability and just be fully focused on kind of their bodies. And I'm going on a little bit of a tangent here, but I just, you know, I just want to keep it as real as possible and hopefully be a source of inspiration and just a voice for those women who don't really feel comfortable speaking up or speaking their truth. I kind of want to do that for them and let them know that that's possible. And it's okay to have cellulite. It's completely normal. You know, even top athletes in the world have it, and it's a normal, beautiful thing. And it just comes with being a woman.

Yeah, I empathize with that. At the same time, Yeah, I think women should be able to wear whatever they want. And I've been guilty of, purposefully, as a coach with a lot of male athletes purposefully for years wearing dark baby clothes to make sure that that wasn't something that was detracting from my message to my athletes. And so I can't ever even fathom that a male coach would have to consider those things. I mean, unless you're Paul Jordan and you're, you know, you're being googled by tons of women that are. Anyway, she's not wrong. No, but really, in all seriousness, it's typically not a thing that men have to think about. You know, typically that's just not a thing. You know, are your shorts too short? Are they too long? Are they, you know, it's not a conversation in a men's locker room about the uniform. And I can even say that I've experienced a number of male coaches who coach female teams have to deal with the uniform issues because the women on the teams are so sensitive to what that uniform is going to portray on their body or not portray on their body or whatever. And that's the kind of thing that just is non existent in male sport. And the only reason it is a conversation is because women typically deal with so much more when it comes to body image issues, perceptions or whatever. It's not a thing about, you know, a man sometimes might say something like, well, why do women even talk about that?

Or whatever.

It's not that they want to spend a whole bunch of time talking about it, it's that, it's that it's part of the fiber of society and that's why women end up focusing on well, how am I gonna look in that? And that's too short or that's too long or you know, whatever, whatever. And so yeah, you know, kudos to you for making the conversation a conversation and something that is easier to talk about and not something that is, you know, just standing in, standing in who you are and what you choose. Because it's what you choose and there that's your choice. Anybody who want it a different way, well guess what, that's not up to them. So yeah, that's, that's powerful and good for you for doing that.

Yeah, I wanted to thank you for that post because it's the kind of thing I want our 9 year old daughter to see. Yeah, absolutely. You have it, you know, it's, it's exactly that. It's, I think it's something that just needs to be said and continually said and pointed out.

So I appreciate that.

Thank you for that.

Thank you.

So we are running out of time here, but just to wrap up, we want to know some More fun. I'm air quoting here weird things about you such as your passion for banana bread, which we share.

Yes.

So, Kari, dig in here and let's find out things about Melissa that people just would not know.

One more kind of like sports specific one. Who, what team are you most apprehensive or would you be most excited to beat?

What team would I be most excited to beat? Oh, I would probably be most excited to beat.

Is there a team that you just seem to always not match up well against, you struggle with just because of something unique? Because I know from my experience in playing that it's not always the. If we're the second place team in the league, it's not always the first place team is actually the worst one to play. It could be this fifth place team. There's just something about them and the way they play that it's almost more satisfying because they do something that just with how you play.

And I'm thinking, you know, there are a lot of undersized teams actually that might not give everybody trouble. But for me, I love beating someone who had played a different style of volleyball. So like the Brazilians, you know, they, they're a lot. They're typically undersized and they like to pull a lot off the net, which doesn't always feed into like my strengths. And so whenever I beat them, I feel super satisfied. So like Agatha Duda, you know, like a team like that I love beating because I know I worked really hard to beat them.

That's awesome. That's awesome. Okay, what about some favorite pump up Pump up tunes?

Okay, favorite pump up tunes. I am a big kind of like DMX before the games, like X Gon give it to ya. That gets me really revved up. We have some like team songs that usually come up every season. So I think last year, it was a couple years ago, it was Coldplay. A sky full of stars. But the remix of them. Oh, when that gets going and the beat drops, it's game time.

It's on those lines. Before match, do you typically feel the need to tone yourself down or ramp yourself up?

I think it depends on the tournament and the game. But actually during the world championships that whole kind of week, I found myself toning myself down for it. And normally I'm like a pump myself up for it. Like, you'll find me dancing in warm ups. Like if a good song is on. Like I'm loose, I'm feeling loose. But during the world championships, I was like listening to some subdued, like relaxing chill. Like even Some podcasts. It wasn't even music. Sometimes it was so weird.

Guard athlete podcast. Seriously? That's great.

That's the one.

Right on.

That's the one.

Glad we could help.

Yeah.

You guys, like, 1% of that win is attributed to you.

Thank you. Thank you. What about favorite foods? Do you have favorite meal or desserts that you really love?

Yeah, we do celebrate every tournament, win or lose, with a pizza. As a team. We always go out for pizza, and it's always Hawaiian, which is very divisive. I know there are some people that hate pineapple on pizza. We are lovers of pineapple on pizza.

Thick or thin crust?

Thin. In Europe especially, like the. You know, the fire would have it like the thin. Oh, right. It has to be so good. So good.

Yeah. Her daughter's favorite is Hawaiian.

Really? Yeah. Lately it's been a dill pickle pizza.

We're trying to expand that, but.

I know, don't ask, but Hawaiian's traditionally been her favorite.

We'd get along.

What about dessert?

I love a good ice cream cookie sandwich. And I love Wrong cookies and ice cream. It's kind of. Yeah, I cheated because it's cookies and ice cream. Cookie.

You put it back in the freezer. You do the. Yeah, yeah.

Love that.

Good one.

That's really good.

How about any books or favorite books or podcasts or shows that you've watched?

Yeah. Oh, God. I mean, so many. I'm actually. I actually. I have it right in front of me here. I read this a while ago. Legacy by James Kerr. It's. It's the rugby book. And it's 15 lessons in leadership or something. And I actually read this before I started dating a rugby player. It was recommended to me by my strength coach.

Is that the Blacks?

Yeah.

Okay.

And it was fascinating. Just the lessons that you learn on how to be a good teammate, on just how to be a good leader, especially from a culture such as the All Blacks. It was. I recommend it to a lot of people, honestly, in life, not just in sports.

It's not a long read. It's an easy read. And it's got just. And you. It kind of breaks some of the stereotypes. Types of rugby players as well, when you. Because they have such a drinking culture, typically, and then you're, you know, looking at the decisions they made as a unit, as a team, to do some of the things they did in order to not have any weaknesses against another team and following through on that. It's amazing.

It is amazing.

That's cool. That's really cool. Any Favorite movies or Netflix or whatever.

I've actually really been into food shows lately. So there's the new Chef's table on Netflix that just came out. A new series. Beautiful. And then also street food, but Latin America also. Amazing. I also really loved the show Money Heist. That was a big. I don't know if you've heard of it on Netflix. Big. During the pandemic.

Seen the previews, haven't watched it. All the people in the masks.

Yeah, all the people in the mask. I know. I was really skeptical of it too. And then I watched it and I was addicted. Addicted.

Amazing. So are you. What are you afraid of?

Going really fast, actually, like on a bike, down a hill, you know, everyone's like, woo. So much fun. I'm like, brakes on. I'm like going so slow. I actually don't really like going super fast. And I went go karting the other day and I was like, the snail. I was like, the last one, I was like, I don't want to go fast. And I just. Something I realized literally within the pandemic, going on bike rides and stuff, I was like, I want to be slow, except for on the court. Then I'll be super fast. But I actually like to go slow in life.

It's so funny because we talked to some fairly extreme athletes sometimes and it's like, nope, would never.

Zip line.

Would never. Skydive. Would never. You will not catch me. You know, just like. And you're saying sport is skeleton. Sport is, you know, like what?

So funny. And I think it's because, like, also growing up, you're kind of just like told not to do anything too risky because you don't want to injure yourself or whatever. And like, you're so now you're just put off by anything that's too risky or too dangerous.

Yeah. And like, NCAA players will be signing contracts that they won't go skiing if they live in Colorado or they, you know, like, things like that.

So totally.

What message would you like to send young athletes? If you, you know, it might be the message you sent to yourself as a young athlete that you might needed to hear at some point. What message would you like to send to young athletes? Listening?

I think the first one that comes to my mind is like, not letting anyone determine your happiness, your destiny. I think there are too many times where people feel like they can influence you or they can control your trajectory and it's fully in your control. And I think too many times I listened to someone who told me no or listened to someone who kind of brought me down. And it took me a while to realize that it's up to me and it's up to what I have within, to be able to, you know, chase after my dreams and realize what's possible. And if you told me when I was 12, when I first started playing, that I was going to be a world champion before I was 30, I wouldn't believe you, honestly. But it just takes all of that perseverance, that hard work, and it takes all of the failures that you ever had, plus some, to be able to get to that goal. And if I listened to all those people at the beginning, I wouldn't be here. And it's in your hands. It's in your power. It's your destiny. So just control what you can control and you'll get to where you want to go.

Amazing. Well, this has been an absolute pleasure. Your positivity, your messages, your enthusiasm, it's just contagious. And I think it's so important for our listeners to really hear who you are and just that you exemplify this beacon of light, despite everything that's going on, on and how you handle it is so impressive. So thank you so much for being on our podcast and how can people reach you? You are on Instagram, obviously, and you have a YouTube channel. Are those the best places?

Yes, they are. Well, first of all, thank you so much for having me. I've had a blast and I could keep talking honestly. Have me back for a second episode, please. You can find me on Instagram. It's my full name, which is super long and hard to understand, but it's Melissa Ximena Paredes and it's the same on YouTube. So go check me out there.

Awesome. And we will be pointing people to you as well. That's awesome. Thank you so much, Melissa.

Thank you, Melissa.

Thank you. Great to see you. You too.

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