Overcoming Barriers with Terez Rijkenberg

This is episode 294 of the Empowered Team Podcast. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast, where we explore how to optimize your performance.

In career, sport, and life. And now your host, executive coach and life strategist, Kari Schneider.

Welcome. Welcome to the Empowered Team Podcast. I am excited to join you with a special special guest. Her name is Therese Richkenberg. Wait, did I pronounce that right? No, I did.

Reichenberg at Reber. Not a problem there. It's always such a hard name to. To pronounce. Yeah, but funniest.

Okay, this is so good. Because the funniest part about this is that's one of the questions I always ask guests ahead of time. Am I pronouncing this right? But because we've known each other for so long, I was just like, blurring it into my brain and not pronouncing it correctly. Oh, my God. Right here.

Not a problem at all.

I just butchered it on air.

I love it.

And I'm leaving this in there. I'm not even going to edit it out because it's so human.

No, it's good. I think this is such an important thing, right? You know, we're, we're talking to people from different cultures all the time. We're not going to get any of this stuff right. And we've got to allow ourselves to, to forgive ourselves and forgive other people for not getting this stuff right. It's just the way of the world.

Oh, this is so perfect because. So that our audience knows you are an executive coach and chief people Officer of Socium 10X. And what you do, you have an MBA, but you are helping the people who are leading companies. Helping the people. Everyone from elite athletes to, to PhDs to company CEOs to all sorts of people who you, you actually, you coach my husband as well. So I think that's an amazing thing. So you are a person who gets to get just like me. I, I don't often have coaches on. I often have other people who might have been in the business world or health world or authors. And so to have another coach on, I, I'm so excited and one that I know so well. So I'm happy to have you. I can't wait to dive in. Welcome, Therese. And let's go into all of the things that help us become the best leaders we possibly can be as an executive coach. So first question. How. How did you find yourself on this path of coaching? You have an mba. You probably couldn't have gone into any number of vocations what has you so lit up? Because just looking at you and talking to you, I know how lit up you are by helping other people in this realm of coaching. What brought you to executive coaching?

So that's a really great question, and it's. It's quite a vulnerable story, so I'll share it as best I can, because it was when I. When I was becoming a mom. I. I was pregnant with my son, and at the same time, I was working for a corporate organization. I was studying an MBA at the same time. And I was incredibly naive at that time, thinking that I'd be able to have a baby and finish my MBA and, you know, work in a corporate organization all at the same time and do it all and do it all successfully. And I had my son, and I just went through postpartum depression. And it. It. It was a long time. It took a long time for me to actually firstly acknowledge that that was happening, that I went through, you know, quite a. A part of, a bit of denial, maybe for a whole year. But I just struggled through that year. I was really struggling. I was just not. Not operating at my best. And I always just felt like I was, you know, operating at 40% in all areas of my life. I. I left the corporate world at the same time and then tried to start my own business. But it was just so much added pressure and so many things that were happening for me. And, you know, you can look at those things and say, yes, it was all of that pressure that you were adding to yourself that was creating that depression or, or adding to that depression or adding to that struggle. But there was actually a very huge realization that I had. So it was at that time that I started to listen to the Life Coach School podcast. Someone had put me, had recommended it, and it was on one of the episodes where Brooke Castillo says, your thoughts are optional. She said, your thoughts are optional. The thoughts that you tell yourself are all optional. And I thought, really, because I knew that I kept telling myself, therese, you're not good enough. Therese, you're not good enough. I kept. That was just the words that I'd kept saying to myself over and over again. You're not good enough. You're not doing good enough. You're not a good enough mom. You're not a good enough business person. You're not a good enough wife. And that was just the theme that just kept going over and over in my mind. And she said, you know, thoughts are optional. You can choose them. And I think in a. In a later podcast episode that I heard she said, she asked a question where she said something along the lines of, well, what if you're already good enough? What if that was just not even. You know, it wasn't even a question that you needed to ask, like, am I good enough? Like, what if you were just already good enough and already worthy and already just amazing just for being you just do. Just because. And that just blew my mind. And so it was at that time that I decided to look more into this and get coaching myself. And I was really able to transform my. I would say my depression in that time. I was really able to just transform how I was feeling, what I was telling myself. And. And then all the results started to happen from that. Now I would never. You know, I really want to go on your podcast and say there are people who experience depression and who need medication and who need therapy and they need help. For sure. For me, this was my experience where it was. I know that it was just a switch in mindset that was able to turn me out of that depression and into a position where I felt way more in control of how I was feeling and what was actually happening for me, that was my experience. So everybody's experience is different. But that's. Yeah, tell me.

Yeah. Oh, I was just gonna say that's so powerful in so many ways because people can go down that, that rabbit hole, if you will, of even then questioning, well, why am I like this? Why am I thinking this way? Why am I feeling this way? Feeling more of not good enough or more of what's wrong with me or I need to be fixed or. And. And then, and then that opens the door for many people to think that, well, that means it's a long, drawn out process and I'm scared of that. I don't want to do that. You know, it's a big journey. And, and what you're pointing to right here is that in your experience, it wasn't that. It was a matter of, wait a second, what if it's a complete paradigm shift in a moment, a complete erasing of belief system in a moment, something that just transformed your life because you questioned what you thought was real for the previous years of your life, what you thought you knew was real. And that, to me, I want to emphasize that for listeners in how powerful that is in, in just a moment. And it doesn't mean that the pattern or the habit of the other thoughts aren't going to sneak back in, but when it's so profound, the one that you realize, oh, wait a second, this is optional. Why would I keep choosing this if this is optional?

Exactly.

Causing me so, so much pain. And this is optional? Oh, I don't think so. I don't think so. So I, I just want to reiterate in different words what you've said.

Yeah.

So that people can receive this in, in their lives and not have to go, well, and here, here's the thing. I, I, I, I'm gonna just offer here. If we keep going with the previous thought that was causing the pain, there's usually a payoff. It's, it's giving us something. It's giving us something that's serving us. What, what is this providing? What is this providing? And then when we're aware enough to see that, it can really open our eyes to, oh, wait a second, I'm, my, I'm actually valuing sadness over valuing happiness. I don't realize we like to talk about values a lot in, in the empowered in our business and what we do, but it's one of those things where people talk about the values that they want or talk about the values they think look good to other humans or talk about the values that are accepted in society. But when we really open it up, we might be valuing something and not realizing it and not realizing how we're getting a payoff from it, even though we're suffering in it. So really amazing. I find that so fascinating as to. It was so impactful for you, so impactful for your life that you took your interest in business, you took your interest in the corporate environment, you took your mba, and then you went and got certified as a life coach in order to really serve other people who are in that corporate environment, who are leaders, who are achievers, to help them with their own minds. Is that, is that accurate?

Yeah, sure. It, it took me a while to get to that point. So initially I decided to coach moms who were struggling in the same way that I had. And, but there was something just sitting below the surface, always sitting below the surface, where I thought, you know, I really want to, you know, be back in corporate. I really enjoyed that environment. I'd always wanted to be a CEO. It was, I was incredibly ambitious when I was working in a corporate, and I, I just, I just knew that there was something more. And I wanted to be an executive coach. I wanted to help people at that level because I knew that I could. But it also took me a bit of time to, to acknowledge, you know, that I could do that, that this was something that I could do right you know, you always question yourself, and there's that imposter syndrome syndrome that comes up when you're thinking, well, you know, who am I to say that I should be at that, at that level helping people? On an exec. On an exec level, I haven't had the experience. I haven't been a CEO, I haven't worked at that level. How is it possible that I should be able to help them? And there was again, something that just. I love coaching. I get coached all the time. And one of my coaches at the time when I was struggling through this, you know, she said, well, just, just own it. Own the identity. Live into the identity of, of an executive coach. Be the person, and then you will gain the experience of it. You know, start there as opposed to trying to gain experience when you're not in full belief of it. And that was just a big switch as well. So it was, it was about being an executive coach and then gaining experience. And when I was able to do that, I just started to sell myself as an executive coach and people saw me as an executive coach and people, you know, signed up and I started to build my practice and it just flowed from there, which was exceptional. But that was also such a big shift for me. Noticing that it was just a thought that was holding me back. One of those simple things like, I need experience in order to do this. Actually, no, maybe you don't. Maybe you just need belief in yourself, in your capabilities. And exactly like you said earlier, it's about taking all of those other aspects. The experience that I had in corporate before the fact that I had an mba, I had a qualification from the life coach school. You know, taking all of that and, and actually, then using that to say, actually I'm the best person to, to coach executives using the resources that I had at the time.

So this is your own personal experience. I can imagine that you're also seeing people with the same imposter syndrome, despite all this experience or despite the position they have gained. Is that what you find with some of your clients?

Yeah, for sure. And I'm guessing you do the same. Kari, you're an amazing exec coach too. So I'm sure we could, we could have lots of stuff stories on this. But it's so interesting that, you know, people who are at such a high level in their careers in organizations or they've had extreme success with, with what they've, you know, been able to achieve in their careers and in their organizations, they still, this still comes up for them. And what, what do you. What are your thoughts?

I was just gonna say I was just thinking of a. A client recently said, well, I think I'll do this for experience. And I said, stop that. You have plenty of experience. That's not the reason you're going to do this particular thing. Don't go and diminish your value. Diminish yourself thinking that you have to get more experience. You have to. This person has years of experience. This person has an amazing position and knowledge and expertise in what they did, in what they do. And they didn't need that thought, as you're pointing to that very. That very powerful thought of, well, maybe I should do this for more experience. That's not the reason. That can be one of the reasons. But in that particular context, because I knew that client. Well, I knew that that client was using that line, that thought in order to give themselves permission to do something for the reasons that felt safe instead of the reasons that we're really honoring who they are, who they are showing up in the world as. So it's. It's a very interesting thing as to how we're thinking about things and how we're holding ourselves back by not letting ourselves think of, well, why, why, why am I not the right person for this? I am the right person for this. I am the person that can be the person that leads this company, that helps those people, that starts this project, that. That makes the difference, that does this new thing that no one's done before. Why not?

Yeah, and you don't even have to have a reason to want to do it as well. So it could just be this, like, underlying sizzle. I. I kind of felt like that's what it was for me when I decided to become an exact coach. It was just like, I just had this thought of, like, that's what I want to do. I don't have any reason why, but it's just. I just felt like that's where I wanted to go. So you don't even need to have a reason to build your experience or because it's credible or because everybody else thinks that's the way to go. I think it's about, like you said, looking for what. What is within you that's going to allow you to be more of you. What's. What are. What is your heart saying? What is your gut saying that you. Is the direction that you need to go in and just go there. You don't even have to have a reason. Just go there, go in that. In that direction. Be bold enough to step There it's such.

I, I love that I'm going to repeat the thing that you said. It's that you don't have to have a reason. You don't have to have a reason. And, and that I think is so important because I can't tell you how many people will emphasize the reasons why they didn't or why they can't and not give the same kind of emphasis or weight or time and energy to all the reasons why they want to all the reasons why they can. And somewhere in the middle is that you don't need any reason to or to not just because you feel like it can be reason enough.

Exactly. Right there. Exactly. I love it. Exactly. Yeah. And, and maybe the imposter syndrome is just that, that, you know, logical voice saying back to you, like, oh, no, there needs to be some logical reason why you're in this place, or there needs to be some logical formulation of, of experience or tick box that you need to have done in order to be in this space that, you know, social conditioning has told you is the right tick box to have. Maybe that's all it is. Maybe that's all imposter syndrome is. And actually it's about not listening to that voice at all and just listening to the one that's saying, well, actually I'm, I'm here and I can make a difference here, and this is where I want to be. And because I want to be here, I'm actually going to add so much value. That's the thing that's going to create the value.

Have you that value? To me, when I hear that, it speaks to what someone's. Either if they have the desire, they're meant to do that. However, if they've felt the imposter syndrome, they've felt held back and they move forward through it and they've become the version of themselves that allows them to do things that they never thought they could before. What about the people around them? Are you, are you experiencing for yourself or have you experienced with clients that the other people around, anyone who's broken through to whatever their thing they really wanted, whatever broken through, whatever was holding them back. Have you found that for yourself or for others that those around them are going, no, come back to where you were because that's what we expect of you, or because that's who I am most comfortable with, or because that is what I, I don't want you to change.

I've seen, and I'm sure you've seen the same is that there's, there's multiple ways that this could, could work. So there are for sure people in our lives which will try and hold you back and keep you back in that safe, comfortable space. Or what sometimes happens as well is that you can inspire other people to go with you. So they either don't come along for the ride or they do, they do come along for the ride and they rise up to that challenge and they're further inspired and grow with you into, you know, that new. That new identity that you've created for yourself or whatever the case is. So. And I'm sure there's many different facets in between where that, you know, that journey might be slower for some people, but I suppose it's about realizing that some people may not join you on the journey, you know, onto that next identity that you want to create for yourself. And that's okay. That's okay. If they're not going to go there, you need to give yourself permission to be able to do that for you, because that's where your value is going to be. That's where your greatness is going to unfold itself. And knowing that it's okay just to let some people go who aren't going to come along for the ride, what do you experience? Is it something similar or slightly different?

Yeah, it is that. I, I find for clients and for myself that if it's too far away from, especially the people who are close to someone who's growing, if they're really, really close to someone who's growing, that's when another person might want to hold them in the place that they were. If they're a little further away, then it seems to be more inspiring because it's not as, it's not as personal. I'm using hand signals for those who are on the podcast versus the YouTube image. But I, I think it does. The context of who it is and the relationship, whether it's a work relationship, whether it's a personal relationship, I think those contexts influence how, how supportive another person is of growth or how much they might wanna, you know, you've changed in a negative way. You know, I don't like that you've changed versus wow, look at you. I think that the context of the relationship makes a big difference. I'm curious about you. You coach people who are in environments, speaking of the context, speaking of those environments. You're, you're coaching people who are in environments that are very challenging in that they're being either pushed to new levels or they are being exposed to new problems, or they are growing in various ways. They're seeing problems they've never seen before. If you were to separate them into men and women, what would be some of the biggest issues that you see men facing versus some of the biggest issues that you see women facing? If they're different, maybe they're the same. But what are you seeing in terms of some of the, the challenges that men are seeing versus some of the challenges that are, that women are seeing, if they're any different?

That's a really great question. And I think there are some differences and there definitely are some similarities as well. So if we speak about men first, I think some of the challenges that they're experiencing are. One of the things that I've actually noticed recently in, in the past few weeks is that men, I tend to find, actually want to think about legacy and about creating a legacy and, you know, underlying everything. If you were to sift back all of the layers of what it is that they, that they want and understanding their vision and their goals and what it is that they're trying to achieve and all of the, the blockers to that, when you peel back all of those layers sitting below all of that, it just seems like what, what I found, just like I said recently, is that they want to create this legacy for themselves and they're really thinking about, you know, what, what do I want my grandchildren to say about me when I leave this earth, what am I going to leave for my, my family? Also, you know, if I leave this organization, if I build up this organization to, to the scale that I want to. Want to get it to, how am I going to leave that organization? How do I want to leave those people? What is that legacy that I want to leave for them? So they're really looking at a legacy. And I've always, you know, I've been so curious as to if this is an instinctive thing or something that's just naturally within us or, you know, I don't try and make assumptions and box people into boxes. But it is interesting that that has come up quite often for me recently. And then women, it's a lot to do with confidence. And it's the imposter syndrome that comes up a lot with women in my coaching interactions. I think we still have a long way to go. Women have still got a long way to go to really feel confident in their abilities and to really own the fact that they've got so much value to add to the workplace. You know, we're still, we're still living in a, in a Culture and a workplace environment where there is still gender inequality, there is still differences. And yeah, I think there's a long way to go. But I find that that's, those are generally the themes that come up most often when we're talking about men, men versus women. What, how do you, what are some of yours? I'm. I'm curious, I'm really curious to hear if yours are similar or different.

Well, this is, it's so interesting to hear you describe this because. And it's interesting to me that we've never talked about this before and I love that this is coming out for men. I definitely find the same. I primarily coach men. I don't know if I tend to, I don't know if I tend to draw men because I have a very masculine side, but then have a feminine side. I'm not sure what it is, but so most of my clients are men. And yes, I would say the legacy, the vision is definitely there. That would be a primary focus because, and I can't say, because I would say that also along with that is that anything that is getting in the way of that legacy or that outcome that they envision for the company or for themselves or that long term thing is, is the problem to solve, it is the, to fix, it is the thing to overcome so that this legacy, this bigger picture vision can, can be, can be, can come to fruition. And I think that's part of what the stereotypical male leader of companies, that's one of the reasons why they're in that role is because of that legacy and that vision. At the same time, it's not to say that women don't have that. I know that. I think for my company and I think very much like that as well. However, there's more of a. On the women's side, the women that I work with, I would say half of them have, don't have the confidence issues or the imposter syndrome issues, but they think more in terms of, of. Getting everything taken care of. So it's, it's almost a different. It may be, maybe it is a biological thing. I, I would not have said that years ago, but now maybe, maybe it is a biological thing. I don't know. However, what I do realize is that with being able to step back and see that bigger picture with men and women in leadership roles, there's definitely still a lot of not valuing women as much. There's definitely, I would say in the experience that I've had personally and professionally and with the people that I work with, but it's not intentional. What I'm seeing now is that in years past, in decade, decades past, there would be situations where maybe someone obviously and consciously thought less of women in leadership roles or thought less of now. It's not that as much. It's that. It's that. That's a subconscious thing that's still happening both on a male and a female. Yeah, it's. It's a. It's a thing that's still in the system. Whether people want to call it patriarchy, whether. Well, and call it whatever, I don't know. But what I do know is that. That on both sides, for men and women, what I. The impression I'm getting is that everyone's trying to do the best they can, and they just haven't quite figured that out yet. And there may still be some stereotypical things going on, and they're still trying to figure out what that looks like. It's just not as obvious as it was, say, in three decades ago, five decades ago. Now it's more of a subconscious thing. It's more of a, you know, still trying to do the best everybody can. And some of that still includes lack of confidence. However, on the male side, I know that whether it's someone going in to do a pitch, whether it's someone going into a AGM or a big board meeting, that confidence is the number one emotion that any male or female leader looks toward, looks to have going into any of those uncertain or important environments that they're looking for. It's. It's. That's what they're all looking for in order to. To feel that they're performing their best in that environment, so.

True. Yeah, I think that's definitely, you know, one of the strategies that that's.

We.

We both then work on with our. With our clients is generating that confidence in order to. To get the outcome that you're looking for at the pitch or the meeting or the conversation that you're going into, it'll always be, excuse me.

Yeah, add that confidence. So what do you do for yourself? Is there a thought, Is there something that you coach or give people tips so that they can generate that confidence for themselves? How do you approach that? Especially if it's coming up for some of the female clients and even the male clients who want to feel their best? What do you do to approach that?

Yeah, so one of the very simple tactics that I use is I always look at. I always ask the question of when was the last time. When was the last time you felt Confidence. When was the last time? And it could be any time. You know, it could be when you were feeling confident at the top of a ski run and you knew that you could get down and said you were going to have the best time. But when was the last time you felt that emotion that you want to be able to generate for this event or for this meeting or for this pitch? And then think about that moment, think about what it is that you were thinking during that time. You know, what were you thinking when you stood at the top of the ski run? Or what were you thinking when you were. I don't know when. When. There's another time that. When was the last time you felt confident, Kari? Tell me.

Me. Yeah, well, I feel confident going into. Into podcasts. So there's a level of apprehension of getting it started and, and making sure I've got everything prepared, but I feel confident going in. And part of that is not only the preparedness, but part of the other part. The other part is the, the number of podcasts I've done. So, yeah, getting close to 300 of them. There's less of that apprehension or self doubt or uncertainty that comes with not having the experience, however, for you to ask that I think of. I think of times where I might be going into something that I'm not experienced in. Because if we're not to rely on the experience or rely on having done it before for confidence, then. Then what does that look like? And I remember a thought that I had back in. This is back. This is 30 years ago. More than 30 years ago. Yeah, 30 years ago I was in university exams and it was a level of stress that was different than levels of stress. I'd had had some very stressful things in my life, but this was this level of time pressure. And if I don't pass these exams, they're weighted so much, then I don't get my degree. And, And I was in this. And they were one after another. How do I have the time? And I had this one thought that was, if I can get through this, I can get through anything. If I can get through this, I can get through anything. And this is before any coaching or any other.

Yeah.

That I had or anything. I just remember that thought going over and over just to keep me going and not spiral into some, you know, panic of inaction and feeling stuck. And so. So there's typically a one liner that can come in that can generate confidence for me. Yeah. Um, sometimes it's just thinking of my daughter who will say to me You've got this. And she says that to me because I've said it to her so many times. Yeah. I'm like, okay, Okay. I guess I can just believe.

Yeah, yeah, why not, right?

Yeah. Okay. Okay, I've got this.

And it's as simple as that. And it again goes back to. I think you, you said it so beautifully earlier where you said it's. You can have transformation with a single thought. There could be a transformation in how you feel going into a meeting or an event or a pitch just with the single thoughts. It doesn't mean you're not going to feel nervous. It doesn't mean that you're not going to feel fear or any of those things, but you could also feel some of that confidence and generate some of that that will help you through. And if you can get through that, you can get through anything. For me.

Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, say it.

No, I was just about to say that. For me, the thoughts that I love, I use it for everything, is I can figure anything out. I can just figure it anything out. Like, I can go into. Even if I'm not prepared for a meeting or a conversation. Well, I'm just going to figure it out. I'm going to go in and I'll just figure it out. And that happens, you know, not a lot because I'm very prepared most often. But there are sometimes, you know, I came into this conversation saying that I feel, you know, outside of the recordings, just saying, like, I feel like I've stretched myself a little bit too far and I need to just reprioritize and redecide a few things. But I also know that even when I've stretched myself a bit too far, I will figure it out. And that really gives me so much power in any situation earlier as well.

No, this is great. I love that as a thought, I can figure anything out. And, and it, it reminded me. And that's, that's what I, What I really reinforce is that you say that thought enough times and it will. And then you, you start to have it as a belief. And if you think that enough times about yourself, it becomes an identity. If you believe it about yourself and you've done it enough times, it becomes an identity. And then it's that, that I am someone who figures things out. I am someone who can figure anything out. I am a capable person. I had a client years ago who said this line and it was, capable people are punished. And it was that. Because in this person's experience, they would see that over and over. That they were the one that was capable to handle the things, but then that meant that they carried more and. And I ended up coaching them on it at one point and just saying, you know, is that really serving you to believe that? But then what happens is that if. If I question the thought, for many people it's that, but it's true. And then they give me all the evidence and all the evidence and all, all the evidence.

Yeah.

And. And don't allow themselves to see that there are other options besides what they're choosing to believe because there's so much evidence to show me that capable people are punished. So it's an interesting thing because even the thoughts where I can figure anything out, which is one that I like to believe about myself, it's like, well, I can figure that out. I can figure that out. I've figured out a lot of things. And that thought, Even that thought can. Can put boundaries around us that we may not want simply because then we start to figure everything out ourselves. I don't have to be the one to figure this out. So true. Yeah, this. This doesn't have to be mine to figure out. There's a who for that. And maybe I'm not the who for it. Maybe it's the who, not a how. Maybe it's the. And that one thing I think has helped a lot of leaders that I've worked with go from one realm to whatever the next realm is, because they kept trying to do it themselves or they kept trying to figure it out themselves versus release it to someone or something or some, some. Or even let it go. Just completely let it go. So those, Those things I think can be really helpful to accept that it. It doesn't always have to be us. And it doesn't. I don't have to allow myself to carry it and then become overwhelmed and then become stressed out and then become that it's mine. It doesn't have to be mine. It can be. It can be. It can just be. It can just be.

Yeah, for sure. And I think that's a really great point because. And I was going to say that maybe the difference is in how you feel when you're thinking it. You know, if you're thinking, I can figure anything out and you're feeling really stressed and overwhelmed, then maybe that's a really good sign that it's not serving you in some way. But I also think you make a really good point and it's about relooking some of these beliefs and thoughts and identities that we have for ourselves. Because it could also be the thing that's stopping you from getting to that next level. If I'm continuing to think I can figure anything out, maybe that you may, you know, I'd need to go, go and look at this. But maybe this is the thing that's stopping me from delegating some of the stuff that I maybe should be delegating or you know, let, like you said, letting go of some of those things because I keep telling myself I can figure it out. So I'm not, I don't. It doesn't make me feel bad. It makes me feel very confident and capable. But it might also be the thing that's stopping me from just shifting to that next level or breaking through some kind of ceil into that, you know, that space that I want to get to next as well.

So worthwhile what you just described there in that being able to step back and being able to look at the thought and being able to question the thought. It's all of those things that I think are really the epitome of conscious leadership. They're the epitome of not just driving forward, not just focusing only on the legacy, legacy, legacy or only its the stepping back to be able to really see and then be able to go, okay, is, is this what I choose to do? Is this what I choose to think? Is this what I, am I being deliberate or intentional about that? Am I adding the consciousness to the leadership of myself, let alone the leadership of whatever company or whatever or whoever I'm leading? I want to make sure that we're. There's, there's a number of things that I, we could keep going on and on, but I want to ask this, this in five years question. There's, there's more and more exponential growth happening in AI. There are more and more leaders recognizing that they could use coaching. It could be helpful for them where I'm, I'm just putting those as, as seeds or, or thoughts to, for you to respond to. In the question of where do you see your field going in five years? Things are changing so fast now. We've always looked at, at one year plans, five year plans, ten year plans and, and it's very hard for leaders to do that now because things are changing so quickly. Quickly. So what do you see for yourself or for executive coaching in five years?

That's, it's such a powerful question, especially with what's happening in the AI space. And you know, knowledge is being commoditized. You know, there are certain jobs that are. Now this is Such a dramatic term, but being taken over by AI. What I think is going to happen and what I'm seeing just from some of the literature that I've been reading is that there is going to be a lot more of this move towards helping leaders and helping people become more of who they are. Having those, or really just working on those deeply unique human skills. Those things like, you know, emotional resilience and intelligence, empathy, the, you know, that, that creativity, that really abstract level of creativity, those are the things that are deeply human. But also connection, connection with another human is not something that you can replicate with, you know, any kind of technology. So I do believe that executive coaching is going to be a field that just keeps on growing. People are going to want to speak to another human and to connect with another human and have another human ask questions, to dig a bit deeper and to find the nuance and the subtleties from that, that kind of conversation. I also think that the same will happen from leadership. We're going to move into a space where leaders are going to need to look to lead more on a one to one level as opposed to, you know, leading leading groups or leading teams. They're going to, they're going to have to start to focus on how do I lead this person to, in a more individualized way, how can I get the best out of this particular individual? Because every, every individual is completely different and unique and has different drivers and motivators and different ways of working. And it's likely that they're also going to be on a different continent or remote or you know, have a different, completely different background to you. So you're going to need to figure out a way to coach them or to lead them differently. And one of the skills to do that is to also coach them. So I do think that there's also going to be this need for leaders to have coaching ability and coaching skills to coach their people in a more impactful and directed way as well.

It's, it's really interesting because I, I, when I hear you say that, I think of mentorship and I feel that, or it seems to me that there's just far less mentorship than there used to be. There used to be more of a, more of an automatic mentorship, whereas now nobody talks about mentorship anymore really. I mean, I'm generalizing here, but I just haven't heard it as much as it used to be, say 20 years ago. And that leading more on that one to one level is what does this person need in order to become their best or perform their best or be optimized in whatever role they have. And that, that takes attention and it takes awareness and it takes focus on another human and it creates connection, which is the, the antithesis, it seems, to some of the disconnection that comes from some of what we face with technology. So it's, it's interesting. I love how you've described this in becoming more aware of who we are emotionally, who we are as individuals and interacting as individuals instead of leading in large groups or. This is the way we do things here. Well, what's the way you do things? So it's, it's interesting to conceptualize how do people do this in companies when, when, when leaders often feel like their time is so. Is so demanded upon or finite. And I think that's a question that's just a, a general, like, curiosity that I'm wondering how it's going to pan out because those are the things that, that people always struggle with is how much time do we have? But speaking of time, I know we, we have limited amount of time. Is there. You, you have such an incredible coaching style. You are chief, chief people officer for Socium. You have clients. You have room to take on new clients. Is that true?

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

Okay. You have room to take on new clients. Before we end off, what would you like the listeners to know about their own leadership, about life in general? What would you like to send as a message to listeners in, in their leadership? And I think that one's been been sent really clearly already. And it's this is that you're not alone. We didn't say that specifically, but we pointed to, you gave example after example of people who are perhaps in imposter syndrome, lacking confidence, looking for legacy leading groups of people, leading individual people. And all of these things are pointing to two scenarios that people have often thought of. Oh, I'm dealing with this alone. But one of the messages I think has gotten across with what you've shared is that you're not alone. Other people are going through this too. It's okay to be experiencing what you're experiencing. Is there another message that you would like people to know that you want to leave as we, as we're wrapping this up?

Yes, definitely. And I think it's one of the things that I practice for myself because it's so powerful. So I think very often in this world we're trying to optimize our external environment and we're forgetting about optimizing our internal environment. And our internal environment is actually, you know, you know, just to also add onto the question about where things are heading in the next five years, I think we are going to head into a position where we're going to be a lot more intentional with optimizing our internal environment, really understanding who we are, what we're feeling, being able to identify our emotions more readily, really understanding the thoughts that are going on in our minds. And I would say to any leader that's listening, that's where you're gonna feel the most in control, is if you start to focus a lot of your attention on optimizing your internal environment. And then if I can offer one tip on that, and it's something a. A piece of advice that, that I've heard along the way, and it's just be kind to yourself. Just be kind to yourself. Talk to yourself like you would talk to your child or talk to your dog or a really, really deep loved one. Just be nice to yourself if you can. Be nice to yourself. It's going to open up so much more for you and for everyone else around you as well. So just focus on optimizing your internal environment and just be nice and kind to yourself. We're all, like you said earlier, Kari, we're all just doing the best that we can. And I find that most often people are berating themselves just so much. We don't see it, but they're just doing it too much. And I think, you know, we could just remove all of that altogether and the world would be a beautiful, amazing place. Doesn't mean that we're not going to have negative emotion, but just be nice to yourself and be kind.

Yeah, I love that. Thank you for sharing that. And that's such a beautiful note to finish on. If people want to reach you, they can find you. Look for you on LinkedIn. Therese Reichenberg. Well done, LinkedIn. And therese@socium10x.com those are our zones that you can be reached at. I am so grateful to have this time with you. Your expertise, your heart, your kindness, your experience, your. Just the way your presence shows up is a gift. So thank you for being with us.

Thank you. It's been amazing to be on here. Thank you, Kari. I really look up to you and it's, you know, just so fun to have this conversation with you. I really appreciate it.

Oh, this has been wonderful. Thank you. And we'll speak soon.

Okay, bye.

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