The importance of ADHD business owners getting the RIGHT support!

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Squirrel. Squirrel.

In this episode, I'm going to tell you about the support you need when you're an ADHD business owner. Squirrel. Hi, I'm Katie McManus, business strategist and money mindset coach. And welcome to the Weeniecast. Squirrel. And now for something completely. If you've been listening to the Weeniecast for a while, you'll know that it's just been me, with the occasional voice memo from Barry Bonds and sound effects created by my producer, Neil Valeo. But to cover this topic, I wanted to give you some real insight as to how I get supported in my business and the different tactics that my OBM has to take to make sure that I get all my work done. Heather, welcome to the Weenie cast. You are our official first guest. We haven't had any guests except for a very brief voiceover by Barry Bonds. So you and he have something in common now.

Congratulations, both on the Weenie cast. I am going to retire tomorrow. No autographs, please. And good luck.

Thank you. Thank you, thank you. I'm going to be absolutely screwed. So, for my listeners who should know a little background here. Heather is my incredibly talented online business manager/fractional COO. She helped me run my business. I literally would not be able to do it without her. She had to come in and clean up all kinds of messes that were there before her. And it's really been a saving grace for me. And one of the things that drew me to working with Heather is that she works with a lot of business owners who have adhd. And there is a one message you sent me after our last meeting that really prompted me wanting to bring you on is that you asked me if I had an early diagnosis for my adhd because you were noticing some differences between your clients who are diagnosed ADHD but had either an early or a late diagnosis. And I'm curious, you haven't actually told me what those differences are. What are they?

It is partially due to the knowledge, the diagnosis, the understanding that you have early on. And then I think it's also, you know, you used a phrase which I don't remember what it was, but it's basically like how you exhibit your ADHD characteristics, like some people express them differently. So I feel like it's a combination of the two. But specifically, like, what you present more than my other clients, who all received late and light diagnoses, is a level of awareness about when you're having an ADHD moment. And that's the reason why I was like, I need to ask Katie when she got diagnosed, because that was the key differential was the knowledge, the awareness of, like, I'm in an ADHD hole, this is happening, and I know it's happening, versus some of my other clients who won't catch it until either it's after or when they're in the middle of it. You know, maybe it's the decades of kind of living with it, trying to figure out how to work in a neurotypical world when you have that, those, you know, those moments, you know, it could be personality type, it could be how you express it. I'm not really sure. But there is definitely a pattern that I noticed in your management of your ADHD versus the other clients that I have who have it as well. So it's just interesting to me.

Well, and it's so funny because I don't even know if I do it consciously, if I'm. If I'm aware, because you say that and I'm like, maybe I do that, but I don't remember. I don't remember having those conversations with you where I'm like, here and. And maybe, like, it's just where I'm saying, I'm stuck in this.

It's. I would say it's partially those moments. And then also, too, where you're like, I'm in a state of overwhelm. Right? Like, those moments, you'll be like, I'm overwhelmed. Like, what helped me prioritize. Right. Like, those moments of saying, it's almost like the moments of outreach, actually, where you're like, this is what's happening. I'm stuck. I'm overwhelmed. I'm, you know, going to do everything possible to get a dopamine hit before I go and do this thing that I have to do. Those moments of just personal observation, I actually don't see a ton of that in the rest of my client base. And maybe it's that they're not expressing it, communication differences. I'm not sure what that is, but I wasn't surprised when you told me it was an earlier on diagnoses, because I feel like there's a certain level of, like, power that comes with that knowledge, which I think is really tragic with so many, especially women, because I primarily work with women, especially women who are misdiagnosed. Undiagnosed, just don't have the right support system. And so they're kind of left for decades thinking that, you know, it's something's wrong with them or they just have to, like, figure it out or do the best they can with what they have, which is great. But it's. I mean, to me, it feels kind of tragic because when you have that knowledge, you can start learning and understanding and exploring yourself and really figuring out the right way for you to navigate through it. And I don't know if I ever told you this, actually, but I had a brain injury when I was 16. I was in a car accident. I almost died. I hit the side of my head. It shook my brain. So I had, like, really bad memory issues. I had learning issues. I had cognition issues. I was in speech and language therapy for, like, a year and a half after the accident. It was, like, really brutal. And so I've spent the last 22 years figuring out how to operate within this thing that I have. But I knew when it happened that, like, things had changed, and I had tools and things at my disposal that I could lean on to help me learn how to live in my new world. And I think that's the thing that is really, unfortunately missing for a lot of people that get that later in life. Diagnoses.

Yeah. You know, it's funny you say that, and I'm. I'm reminded of so many of my clients when they call me for a 911 support call, and they're spinning and they're making it about how they're up and how, like, they're broken and there's something wrong with them and, like, they're never going to be able to start this business. And it's really that, you know, it's like the Mars Rover that couldn't decide what should be prioritized first, and it got overwhelmed and it never did anything. I don't know if you ever heard.

Of that exactly what you're talking about. It's the best story.

If you haven't heard of the Mars Rover, we're going to link it in the show notes. So go to weeniecast.com forward/MarsRover. We'll explain that whole backstory. If you haven't heard of it.

But it's.

It's really just that their ADHD symptoms are getting out of control. Their executive function is not functioning, and they need an outside perspective to kind of look at things and tell them, here's what you need to focus on next. Because it all feels Important.

Yeah. It's interesting that you say that with your coaching business, too, because I also see that in my side of actually executing work. Even you and I have those moments, again, where you're like, what do I prioritize first? Same thing with my clients, where they're like, what do I need to work on first? Like, we want to do this thing by December. Help me map out the steps of, like, getting there and then the order of priority. And it typically works pretty well as long as I get. Don't get too far out. That's the other key that I see with ADHD clients is, you know, keep it focused in on the immediate month. Because if you start looking at next month and the month after, I feel like there's a component of executive dysfunction that comes in, and it's like, I'm overwhelmed now. I'm not doing any of it. And it's just like, no, no, no, no. Like, let's just look at step one. Stop worrying about, you know, step 10.

Well, and what you're describing is those layered tasks, you know, like, instead of just focusing on that next step, you make it about the seven steps that need to happen until you can do that final step. And then that's really where you just get stuck. You can't start on the first thing because it becomes this massive project.

Yep. Yep, exactly. And the other thing, too, that I've employed, and I actually picked this up from you when we had our meetings, is when I do have meetings with my ADHD clients, I go fast because going too slow is, like, almost like, attention drifts. Like, I'm not. I don't know exactly what it is, but it's almost like the more chaotic the call is, the better it is because we get more done. And I just have to, like, kind of lean into that and allow it to kind of run all over and, you know, jump topics 16 times, because I have the capacity with my team, and also because I use things like note takers and recorders and things that I can go back to and revisit and be like, okay, what do we actually say here? So I stopped trying to structure and control and, like, run the calls in the way that serves me, and I really run my calls in the way that serves my clients. And then I'll go in after and, like, figure out, what do I do next? You know, where do we. Where does my team start? What do we do next? As long as my clients are getting off the calls saying, okay, I know what I have to do, I'll Figure it out on the back end with my team.

You know, our calls are very much like, you know, here's what we covered last week and here's kind of what we need to do. And meek thing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then, oh, my God, I remembered the thing that I wanted to talk to you about that I thought about in the shower this morning that I forgot to jot down. And then we're constantly bouncing around like that. It is super helpful though, because, you know, when you have adhd, like, yes, best intentions, like, you have a thought, you know, you note it down. But often if you do note it down, you know, down somewhere that you forget where you noted it down. So it's written on a piece of paper somewhere in your house or maybe even in your car. And that's not helpful when you're on a zoom call with your teaching.

It is not. Not at all. And so it, for me, it's just been an exercise of leaning in and saying, okay, like, I have tools on my end that I know how to use. And that's actually part of the reason why I have the note taker is for my own memory, my own recollection. Cause, like, I have a lot of tools and techniques that I've implemented over the 20 years to help my memory go, but I'll still have just like a flat out blank. Sometimes I need that recording to go back and find it. And then because I implemented that for myself, I was then able to just say, hey, like, why not use this in a different way that serves my clients too, and just let this go. Like, let it run out, Let the conversation wind and twist and do whatever it needs to do. As long as I can track what you're doing, how you're doing it, what you're saying, then I can tie up the loose ends that I need as we go through the call. I mean, there's multiple times when we'll have conversations, and then towards then I'll be like, okay, so looping back on this one, like, what did we decide and how are we doing this? Right? So there'll be like, usually three or four things that aren't quite closed up by the end of the call. And I just learned to be like, all right, so what are we doing with this? In the end, this conversation went all over the place. And I don't actually have my action items. So it's much less attachment to how I think it should go, much less desire to force something to conform and just let it go. I'll figure it out. Like, I'm smart enough, I've got a good team. Well, we'll figure it out. I mean, even though I don't consider myself neurotypical, I think I feel like I straddle the line of both sides. Like, I can work with either neurodiverse or neurotypical, but almost like neurotypical people are super rigid. And I think that's the like clashing point. When you come in with somebody who's neurodivergent, it's like you just can't. It's not gonna work.

It's always funny because I've worked with a couple neurotypical clients. Of course, you know, I didn't always specialize in just ADHD businesses. And it was always super funny because they would start down a question and like, as an ADHD person, I know where they're going with the question and I, I know the answer that I'd have to give. But like, it wasn't the answer that they were asking for. It was like an answer that was three steps later. Right. And like my neurotypical clients, you know, had to learn in the, in the first couple months of working with me that like, it was sometimes annoying that I would like say, okay, cool, I hear you're asking this, but here's the thing that you need to think about. And then I kind of like reverse engineer from that information to help them see the bigger picture. And. But it's so funny working with ADHD clients. They follow, you know, they, they jump with you and they can reverse engineer it. And it's almost like a secret language that a lot of it is non verbalized. Question for you, what do you see makes us more productive? Is there a common theme and what makes ADHD business owners more productive?

Quick, incremental, like dopamine hits and wins. So that's the whole like you, I think you called it task layering or something like that. And so again, if I've got something that needs to get done or a project that we're working on, I'm not showing an ADHD client the whole project plan and running through line by line. No, like, that's not ever going to enter the equation. I have that for my team, I have that for what I do because that's how we have to execute work. But for one of my ADHD clients, it's literally having like a zap that triggers an email notification to her email saying somebody signed up. That's a dopamine hit. Because like, oh, I just made a tiny sale on this and so those moments of I think trying to like proactively support somebody to get the things that they need will then balance out those moments of like, I have to do the thing I don't want to do. And to be fair, I mean, like, there is no forcing it if it's something that somebody doesn't want to get done. Like, we, we will try usually three times and then move on. So it's like reached out once, reached out twice, reached out a third time, and then we're going to just pause on that and then move to a different project so that we can actually keep the ball moving. So I try to do as much of the task layer as possible. I try to build in as much dopamine, you know, like the quick hits that I can as possible. If it's not gonna happen, it's not gonna happen. And I just, I think it's doing a disservice to the work that I do. And for my client base. If I were to just get kind of like hyper focused on something and say, like, no, this has to get done. I mean, if it's 80 to 90% there, then okay, we'll come back to it later and we'll start working on this other project that we gotta get done this month. Like, it's not gonna hurt anybody to do that.

I have to say there is one thing that you did a couple weeks back with your team where, you know, there were some reminder emails that I wanted to go out to a certain group of people and have it be automated every single month. And like, you and I both know that I wasn't actually going to sit down and start writing those emails. So you had someone on your team write the emails and like write them. And she, I was laughing while I was reading them because she wrote it so politely. Like way more polite than I would ever do because people know me like, I'm kind of no bullshit, like, you know, get your ass into this call because I'm going to help you with your business. Stop being a weenie about it. And her whole messag it was like, it would be such a pleasure to.

Have you in me.

But it took away that step of needing to start. It became more of like an editing project where I got to rewrite it and kind of laugh through like, oh my God, like realize how not polite I am in my messaging. But it like, it gave me that really simple dopamine hit rather than, oh, like I have to write a whole series of seven emails. I don't really want to you know?

Yeah, yeah. And that's like the little tiny things that we try to just take one step extra, you know, even if it's putting placeholder text in certain things. With Lorem Ipsum. Right. Like something to just move the dial to the absolute furthest extent that we can do it. And then we have to stop. Right? So that's what I'm saying from our end, it's like if we can hit something to 80% and then let our client finish that 20%, it usually has a much greater level of success. And I mean, at the end of the day, I might think, I know how your business needs to look, but if it doesn't work for you, you're never going to use it. And so that's what. What I kind of mean by, like, I think surrendering in a sense, which is very. It's almost the antithesis of ops, I feel like, because operations is so like structured and process oriented and repeatable and, you know, all of these things. But that's coming at it from this, like, very, again, neurotypical, like just blunt force object effect is what it feels like, like, go do the thing this way or else, like, it's my business, we can figure out how we want to run it in any way that we want. So if that means that I'm breaking tech trying to create this, like, creative little workaround, which I do frequently break tech, I'm not gonna lie because I'm trying to come up with these creative workarounds to just say, hey, like, we gotta make this work for the person using it. If it's built for me, then that means absolutely nothing.

When you're getting started and when you're ramping up and you're all on your own, you naturally create all these workarounds as your standard operating procedures. And that's really the hardest part. When you start bringing people into your business and scaling is then you have to train people on. Here are all the weird workarounds that I've designed in my business that you never documented before. And you also never really realized that they were workarounds. It was just kind of how you made it work for me, for you. Something that every single business owner needs to be aware of when they're thinking of scaling that. That there's going to be kind of that lag time where people have to catch up with you, and then also they're going to see better ways for things to be done right. You figured out a workaround with your, like, limited knowledge of how this tool could be used. And that was one of the things I loved about our first call was, you know, you immediately followed up with, I hear, I heard you wanted, you know, X tool to do these certain things. This tool actually can't do it. The tool that you've been using, there's a reason it sucks. And here's another option for you that checks all the boxes.

Yeah, absolutely. Give the value. Right. Like I approach what I do very freely. Like I've learned what I've learned over 20 years. I don't gatekeep any of that knowledge. So even if I'm having like a discovery call, I'm gonna give you like actionable steps of things that you can do to support in the ways that you want to. At the end of the day it's. This is gonna sound probably a little bit arrogant, but like not you Katie. But if you, the general populace could do what I do, you would do it. So my knowledge isn't gate kept for that reason. Cuz if you can do it, wonderful, I want you to do it. But if you can't, you know where to find me and then you can hire me. So that's my approach to it. And that's, I think, I mean a lot of the people that are in our ethos I think operate that way because like when you gatekeep that knowledge, I feel like it's just a fear based mentality almost where it's like if I share this and somebody else is going to take it and then make money off of it and then they're not going to come hire me and I'm like, who cares? Like I get hired for my knowledge, my reputation, my team, my intelligence. Like if there's another group out there that has my exact formula, like I welcome you to go find them. That's totally cool. There's plenty of, there's plenty of work out there and we're all going to eat at the end of the day.

So I have a, I have kind of a side tangent that I want to go off of because you said something really interesting there about how you can give them the answer of how to do something and if they can't do it themselves, then they'll come back to you. You know, there's this pride thing that happens for people with ADHD where you know, they know the things to do and it's not that they can't do it, it's that they won't do it right. And there's a big difference. And I think a lot of people with ADHD especially when they're late diagnosed, it becomes almost a measure of their worthiness and their intelligence. Like, if they can get themselves to do these things that are absolutely miserable for them to do, it becomes a proof of how smart they are. But you know where you're going to grow, where you're going to be able to actually expand your business, is that you realize, well, something I can't do it. It's that I know that I won't do it. And the best way to continue to grow is to hire someone who actually will do it.

Right. Yeah. Because honestly, like, the thought of supporting a client based the way you do. Katie, I could. I. Nope. Nope.

I'm very.

Nope. I'm very back end. Like, give me my tech, give me my team, and I'm happy for me. I. I can identify in that feeling, in that I just could never run, like a coaching client base like that. I would. Yeah, I don't have kids, I don't want them. I'm good.

Well, it's so funny you say that, because the thing that I love most about my business is when people call me with a freakout or they call me needing to figure out how to be creative in a way that they just don't have access to in that moment. And like, that's where I thrive. If I had to support people in the way that you support people, I would rip my hair out. I'd be bald.

Yeah. Meanwhile, I'm like, just tell me what you want. And then I translate it to my team and then they do the work. Like, that's literally how it said. I mean, to be. I do some of the work too, but for me, I'd much rather be kind of like the air traffic controller in the workplace. And like how I operate. My business is very set up like that. I have three staff members that are full time and they all have different opposing strengths and they take different parts of the project every time because I just, honestly, I can't do it. Like, when I get stuck in the minutia, that's where I start making mistakes. That's not where I belong at all. So I have team members that can do that for me and I act as almost like a client translator, I feel like, because I have a couple people on my team who are, who are Neurodiverse. But again, like the variance, specifically with our ADHD clients. Like, I don't know if I have like the creator gift of gab or like, if it's the ADHD translator or what it is, but I always understand what you're saying. I always understand what my other clients are saying. And I can take that in and give it to my team so that they can be like, okay, cool, we know what to do now. But there is definitely a little bit of a breakdown. Like, if I have my team work directly with the clients, it will happen fairly frequently where they'll come back to me and be like, hey, I don't. I don't know what this means. Like, what am I supposed to do with that? And it's interesting because I think, again, that for me, comes back to that brain injury. Honestly, it did break my ability to use my brain in the way that I originally knew how. And then I had to completely relearn it. And I feel like that process of relearning it gave me this, like, sneak peek into how we at large kind of function and communicate and having to straddle both lines of it, right? Like, almost feeling like this loss of piece of myself that I hadn't. I hadn't known was there. It was just kind of part of how I operated. And now I get to see, like, other people and work with other people who need that kind of support and may not know exactly how to translate it out to the world large. And I get to take that in and be like, oh, cool, so this is what you're looking for. And nine times out of ten, I'm right. So I appreciate that I have that relationship with my clients where ADHD or autistic or whatever it is, they can come to me and be like, hey, I don't know how to say this, so I'm just going to say it and trust that you're going to be able to extract what you need from it to help me get past this point. So I would almost call it like an honor because there's a really deep component of trust in that. Because like you said, there's this piece, especially for late diagnoses, where it's a self judgment, right? Like, I don't want to talk to somebody else about this because I should be able to do it. Should, could, can't, won't, whatever it is, you get to be the outlet for that and it feels good and it's rewarding.

You know, as you're describing this, I'm remembering all of our conversations that have been like this, where I just feel like I need to word vomit up a puzzle, you know, an undone puzzle. And when all the pieces are laid on the table, we really just realize that I'm colorblind and I can't actually see, like, what piece needs to go where. And I'm really just looking for the different shapes, and that becomes so much harder. Whereas you look at it and you see all the colors and you see the similarities and what needs to go where. It's funny that you're mentioning, you know, having a brain injury, because I had a brain injury as well in 2017. Yeah. A mild, mild traumatic brain injury from a concussion. And it took me out of work for, like, eight months. And it's funny, looking back, my ADHD was never really that severe.

It was.

It was really rather mild until after that happened, after I experienced some things that caused PTSD and started a business, which I think all those three things exacerbated all of my ADHD symptoms.

Yeah. Yeah. That's wild. It's like almost like it flipped a switch in a sense and kind of, like, exacerbated it to a point. But then at the same time, like, on the other side, I mean, on the other side of it, like, look what you've done and how you get to, you know, lean into your knowledge and help other people. That's pretty rad. I like that.

What do you see as the main thing that slows ADHD business owners down?

I would say it's self judgment. It's that it. It just is. And the reason why I say that one in particular is because I also share in that. And it took a. It's. My journey is different.

Right.

Because, like, a ADHD is a different journey than a brain injury. But at the same time, like, I remember specifically having these moments of, why can I not remember this? Like, because it specifically impacted my short term memory. And, you know, it was like over a decade of just, like, having these kind of gaps and holes. And then I started figuring out different ways to tie memories. I don't know if you've ever seen, like, what's it called? I always call it Sherlock. See, this is one of those moments of, like, I can't remember the names of things, so I'll come up with, like, a sub name.

You mean Naman, like Walking With Einstein.

That kind of where you're like, I tie it into something else. So the way that there's this show with, oh, it's about Sherlock and it has Lucy Liu in it, and now I can't remember the name of it, but it's about Sherlock and he talks about his memory specifically. And when he described it on the show, I was like, that's what the I do. It's called a memory palace where you're like this one thing comes in and I immediately tie it to something else that I have recall to because otherwise it's going to go away. And so once I started figuring out some of these tools to actually like support my memory increase it brain exercises, like things that I did to help me recover and learn how to manage the symptoms of my injury, I started seeing my self judgment go down and I started seeing that moment of like, like, no, you just have to figure out a different way to do this. There will be times that you don't, it won't work and that's okay. And then to have that moment of like compassion and self grace. But I think that the want to kind of do it the way everybody else does or the way that we think we should inhibits quite a bit. And so the self judgment affects the mindset which affects, you know, emotional health and stability and all these other things that, you know, it just becomes a huge blocker and so shifting the judgment or even just like putting light on it because, you know, shame cannot survive in the light. It can only survive in the dark.

Right.

Like it's the ignoring of the shame that makes it grow and anchor. But those moments of just kind of like, hey, this is actually okay, like I'm doing the best I can. We'll move the dial so much further than why the can I do this? And that's what I see pretty universally.

Yeah, well, and it's, I mean it comes from a lifetime of being in school that's designed for neurotypicals and then having teachers assign work in a way that works for neurotypicals and then it doesn't work for you and so you're unable to do it the way they want you to do it. And then they look at you like, what's wrong with you? Why can't you do it this way? If you are able to design like the ideal team to support one of your clients who has adhd, what kind of positions would you want to fill? Oh, what am I going to say next? Well, you'll have to keep listening to find out. But first. Squirrel.

Squirrel.

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So like if I were designing your business and then implanting people inside of your business to support you.

Yeah, like if you wanted to create a whole team that would support me best to be able to do all the things that I need to be doing and like be happy about it and get out of those moments of self judgment. What kinds of roles would you want.

Me to hire for an assistant Would be very high on the list because I, I know for myself when I got an assistant it was a, it was literally a game changer. Not just in my business, but my personal life. Probably one of the first hires I would recommend anybody, but especially somebody who's adhd. Having somebody that you can offload things to that you're just not going to do, you're not going to start, it's never going to get done. You know, whether that's asking them to help you find a house cleaner or you know, anything like that. Like these are all things that are bogging the memory down and the executive function down. Cause it becomes this list of 30 kajillion things you have to do. And that list blends between work and personal. So using an assistant for both sides is super fucking helpful. It really moves the dial in A significant way. I think the next space that I would put somebody in would be from a tech perspective. So like a tech VA or somebody that can do the things in the systems. Because I see fairly commonly getting hung on like one or two things and then like can't get it done, can't get the project done and then it gets abandoned. And that's, that's tough. Right, because you've put a lot of energy and effort into it. Can I say a therapist too? Like, are we allowed to say that? Yeah, he's.

We're pro therapy on this podcast.

Absolutely. Here's my life. Like let's do therapy. So I think therapy helps too significantly and interesting. I think most of my clients are in therapy now that I think about it. And my.

Yeah, I'm in therapy. Yes, I have therapy this afternoon.

I love my therapist. I've been with her for like five years. So yeah, therapy is incredibly helpful because it gives you somebody to help you move through those moments of like you like we've mentioned the judgment and the self doubt and those things. Ideally somebody who has some insights into the neurodivergence or ADHD or something like that would be optimal in a therapist. And then I didn't lead with the ops person, but I would say an OPS person as well. That tends to come at a point where you are, you know, a little bit bigger because as, as a solopreneur, you can typically handle your ops yourself. Maybe not the most efficient at it. We were talking about earlier on the show adhd, how it like you'll set up your own business and then have all these workarounds and never realize it. Like those moments can get eliminated with an OP support. I had a client who had nine email addresses one time when they first came to me, nine email addresses on Microsoft Exchange, Google, like all over the place. It was because they didn't, they didn't know. It's honestly because they weren't in Google. But if they were in Google workspace, they could have created aliases and then just like had different aliases for the different emails. So that was a hell of a project. And like migrating all of that over and fixing it and cleaning it up and shutting them down and yeah, anyway, so somebody for ops to help you kind of like forward engineer your life in a sense. Because an observation I've had with my ADHD client base is like the path of least resistance is typically the one that gets picked. Which is, is cool, like we're built like that. But the challenge with the path of least resistance is it doesn't always take into consideration tomorrows and the tomorrows and the tomorrows and the tomorrows, because we're just kind of solutioning for what's happening right now. And it can be challenging to course correct that if you get an OPS person in too late. And then I think it also depends on, like, the industry that you're in. Right? So, like, I have a ton of marketing creative clients, so I actually have, like, a whole suite of marketing people that you can plug into. So maybe not necessarily having them on, like, your immediate staff, but. But at least having like, a network that you can tap into when you need those things and not waiting until you're so busy that you don't have time to find somebody, like, proactively cultivate and curate that network. I think those would be the four main bull role spaces that specifically for ADHD people are the most helpful.

I think for me, I also, when I become rich and famous, I want to hire, like, my own adult nanny McPhee comes to my house, like, wakes me up at 6am like, hands me breakfast and a cup of coffee, like, like, drags me out of bed, shoves me into my car to go to the gym. While I'm at the gym, she's prepping my lunch. And for the day I come home, she, like, makes me sit down and meditate and then, like, picks out an outfit for me for the day and, like, does a lot of the thinking and. And pushes me through those executive dysfunction moments where I'm like, oh, like, I could choose to not do this right now. I would love to have, like, like a stern, retired older woman just kind of run my mornings, you know?

All right, so out of fifth one with a nanny McPhee in there, it's amazing.

What's the hardest part about working with someone who runs their business and has adhd?

Sometimes knowing which buttons to push and where and when, because it's not consistent. So, like, what could move or motivate somebody last week could change this week. And that's, frankly, I think part of the reason why, like, I end up being the translator with my team because they're like, well, you know, we did this last week. Why aren't they responding this week? And I'm like, life circumstances, lack of sleep, didn't go to the gym. Like, who knows what it is that's impacted things? So I think it's the potentially the feel sometimes of, like, a moving, moving target of, you know, how do we. How do we approach this? And that Changes all the time. I don't personally, like, on a personal level, I don't find that to be super challenging because I like being creative and innovative and having my own skills challenged. And I just look at it more as like, a, how do I make this work this time? Like, it's just a solutioning for me rather than a. This person, they're not doing what they said they were going to do. Like, that doesn't really enter the equation for me, but I've seen other OBMs and other, you know, people that are in ops and in, like, admin spaces just have, like, deep levels of frustration. You know, with my autistic client, one of my other ADHD clients, like, there's just been these moments where their support staff has been like, I don't even know how to navigate this. And for me, it's more of a, like, what do we need to change? How do we need to alter our messaging and our approach to get the result we're going for? And I don't know if that's a result of the brain injury or if it's just how I operate or what it is, but that. That is the key differential for us in being able to navigate that challenge.

Right. I. I love that you said that. You know, so many times when someone starts working with me, especially if they've already started the business and they're working on scaling it, they have a certain level of PTSD from bringing people into their business and having it not work out because the person was so frustrated with them, you know, and it's really frightening when it kind of recreates that whole paradigm from being in school that there's something wrong with you. Right. And not just that you work differently.

I mean, I will certainly acknowledge that there is a certain level in my client base of, like, having to pay for the sins of ghost past of other service providers, which is part of the reason why I work. To be like, the way that I onboard is the same for everybody, but how I manage that client through the onboarding is always different. And so I. I work to be really intentional, especially at first, as we build trust and communication. And, you know, you get to let go of some of that PTSD and see, like, oh, hey, this isn't actually how this team works. It still takes like a good probably three months to get to that place where my client base is like, oh, you actually mean what you say. And, you know, this is how you show up for us. And it's amazing. And I don't feel like I'M being judged or anybody's frustrated, like you said with me, or that I'm a burden. I think that's also another one. Like, they don't feel like they're a burden. And that's, like, the biggest thing for me that I. I try to eliminate. Like I said, that's why we just pivot. We can work on different stuff. It doesn't have to be the thing that we're focused on right now. So I also know that that's why most of my client base is, like, has these moments of panics where they're like, you're not. You're not leaving, right? Like, you're not shutting down, or. I think there's one time even I messaged you on something, and you're like, you're not firing me, right? Like, we're good, right?

And I'm like, well, it is like, as you're describing this, there is kind of this feeling of being that shoemaker who comes downstairs, you know, in the morning and sees all these shoes that were made by invisible elves, and you're like, oh, my God, I love that these elves come all the time to my house. And, you know, there's this fear that you wake up one morning and they'll be gone, and they, you know, haven't done the things and they don't like you anymore.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I know. And the other thing that's interesting to me with ADHD clients is the communication styles are always a little bit different, right? Like, some might need a little bit more direct, some might need a little bit more loving, some might need a little bit more, you know, foot up the ass, so to speak. It just depends on the person. And I don't know, I just think that my job is to flex and do what I can do to the extent of my limitations and not just guess I'll fix it and what I think should happen, and that's just been my formula with all of my clients, and it seems to work pretty well.

Well, I mean, and all those things that you just named, you know, it's rejection, sensitivity, dysphoria at the root of it. And so whatever triggers your RSD is completely different. So I love that you show up in different ways for your clients. And I. I say that from experience, saying that I really appreciate it for me. So if someone wanted to get in touch and hire you, which I highly recommend people do, how do you suggest they get in touch with you?

You can find me on socials. LinkedIn, Heather Lawson Bradfield. You can find me on Instagram. Same thing. Heather Lawson, Bradfield, super creative with my branding. You can find my website which is the Clover Collective co Clover is my company.

All right, well, we're going to link all the the socials and your and your website in the show notes. Heather, thank you so much for doing this with me today and thank you for being our non old guest.

Yes, thank you for having me and letting me talk about my favorite thing, which is my business. So. You're the best.

Squirrel.

Squirrel.

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