$1.2MM Res Plumbing Work Sold in Little Durango, CO: Kory Peine of M&R Plumbing Shares His Service Call Process

Welcome to The Successful Contractor powered by CertainPath, a show for residential contractors about residential contractors. We chronicle business journeys, share insights, and celebrate successes in this wonderful industry. I'm your host, Bob Houchin. For more information on how CertainPath can put your contracting company on a certain path to success, visit our website, www.mycertainpath.com. I hope you enjoy today's show and take away a nugget or two. Corey, thank you so much for being here. I really appreciate it.

Thank you for having me. I'm very— I appreciate the opportunity.

Absolutely. So for those who haven't had the pleasure of meeting you, could you share with everyone your name, your company name, and where you guys are located?

So my name is Corey Piney. The company I work for is M&R Service. So we're based out of Farmington, New Mexico, but I'm actually stationed up in Durango, Colorado, which is About 45-minute drive from Farmington.

So very good. We're talking for a great reason here in Washington, D.C., as a celebration for an outstanding year you had last year as a plumbing advisor. You did, let's see what, just short of $1.2 million?

Yes.

Yeah, that's fantastic. Now, that $1.2 million, can you kind of break it down for people what, you know, large categories of sales came from in that, in that $1.2 million?

The majority of that was, I mean, what they call residential. So it's everywhere, anywhere from Hydraulic systems complete to water heaters all the way to drain full-on replacements of sewer lines and water lines. That's outstanding.

We're going to learn about your process and how you get people happily involved with M&R in a minute. But before we do that, I love learning people's personal stories, how they got to where they are today. So let's, let's dig in here a little bit. How did you get into plumbing?

Well, and that's kind of an interesting story. So my background came from being a diesel mechanic. For about 12 years.

Okay.

And then I went into like the trucking industry and I hauled hazmat for, for an environmental company that dealt with oilfield specifics.

Yeah.

And then I got into sales there. I was like, man, I want to get into that. And where I started dealing with multiple oilfield companies saying like, hey, you know, I can try to better your situation with better chemical products or whatever, you know. And, and then I've always been Good friends with the owners of M&R, and we you know we were talking, and my my brother-in-law is actually one of the owners.

Oh, is that right?

And he says, "Well, how how are you happy where you're at?" And I says, "I mean, I mean, it's a good job. I mean, it's great." And he says, "Well, how would you like to come and put those talents to use here at the plumbing industry?" And I was like, "Never even thought about it, but let's try it out." And it's it's it's been a fun experience.

How many years ago was that?

Uh, it would have been about four years.

Four years?

Yeah.

Okay. So so no no plumbing experience. Obviously, you're mechanical because you you had that background. So what was your training experience like? Like, how did they kind of get you up to speed on how to do the plumbing?

Honestly, the main thing is they just— I would go out with multiple of the foremen, the tech, the technicians, and I'd see what they're doing. Like, hey, they're going to do a water heater here. This is how they're going to do it. They're going to do a boiler replacement. They're, they're going to scope the sewer line. I'm like, man, I never thought I'd have that much involvement with sewer lines. Yeah, but Yeah. And that was just basically watching the guys that have been doing it for 15, 30, 50 years. Yeah, it's just amazing.

Yeah. So how long did it take for you to kind of— I'm assuming you got your own truck. Were you doing the actual labor at one point or did you always know?

I was mainly in sales. I mean, I would help like deliver parts or, you know, always lend a hand whenever the guys needed some help, obviously.

But yeah. Now, how long have you been in the Durango market?

Let's see. So Durango would be Going on three years.

Right. And did you spearhead that, or were you the one that went up there first, or was it already established?

Well, so Daniel, the the general manager, he was the one that pushed that to to get on up there. And then I he had me go up there first to start you know knocking on doors and things like that. And and actually one of our first jobs was a underground pipe bursting experience. And they they heard about it on our website, and they're like we'd really like to know more about this. And Daniel said get up there and let's give them an estimate. And they said let's do it. And Interesting. That's how it all started rolling.

So you said knocking on doors. Did you literally start knocking like door to door?

I mean, canvas a little bit.

We got some like door hangers and things where we'd hang them on doors and just say, hey, this is our trenchless process. It's amazing.

Oh, and that's how you promoted it? Yeah.

Well, between that and the website, you know, yeah, a lot of people spend lots of time on Google. So for sure.

That's interesting. Yeah. So do people actually look for trenchless? I mean, do you find that or They have an issue and then they're kind of looking for information on it.

Well, and that's, that's— I'm glad you asked it that way because especially up in Durango, there's just a lot of contractors, if you will, various mom-and-pop groups up there where they— their main focus is not necessarily getting a lasting solution, but they're like, well, hey, we'll just come every month and clean your lines out for you. Yeah. And so we would get a lot of people that were frustrated with that and they're like, I don't want to Keep paying $300 to get my line snaked. What can you guys come up with? You know, it's interesting. And so that was a lot of the big push too. I mean, we'd been doing the pipe bursting in Farmington for many years before that, and it—I mean—it just—it paid for itself. I mean, and not only that, but we saw a lasting, like said, solution for those people, and they're like, "Well, happier people." Why? Why not give that for sure?

Now, you made the transition. You learned the technical part by doing ride-alongs and stuff like that. You're a—you're a personal guy. I know you're probably good at sales, John, but we always still get. At CertainPath, there's a process, a sales process. Did you go through much sales training, communication training with us or M&R?

Yes. So, and that's what I really appreciated about M&R is they're like, well, we really have bought into the SGI, you know, the success group like that. This is what we want. Yeah. And because it's not just— I mean, obviously we're growing the business, but it's also if we're— if they're going to pay this amount to get this replaced or whatever, we want to offer them the best service. So We want all of our people, whether they're sales technicians, call takers, to be like, hey, this is what we can do for you. Yeah, yeah. And so, yeah, there was definitely a lot of that. And I remember they sent me to my first SGI training in Texas. Okay. Of course, Dallas. Yeah. And I was just like, I've never thought of sales this way. And I never—

value-based. It's not just hard. It's bad.

It's not just, well, let's go ahead and see what you can sell today. It's like, This is how you present to a client and this is how you find out what their needs are for sure.

So you've been to Service Essentials. What else do you— is that the only one or have you been?

I've been to 2 different. I was at— it was a Dispatch for Profits and then it was Service Essentials.

Very interesting. So you got to see how that side— yes, that's great. I think— tell me if you're wrong— when you go to training, it helps with buy-in, right? You get to see what the owners and managers see, right?

It does. You get that full picture. Oh yeah. And then when you go to those trainings and the bosses are right there next to you learning and, you know, diving into the same material, you're like, oh, this is, you know, this is across the board. This is what we should be doing. And then you go to a place like Texas or Florida or D.C. and you see thousands, thousands of contractors with plumbing, roofing, and they're all trying to live by those values. And I was like, wow, that's actually really cool.

Yeah. Yeah. I think you mentioned it a minute before we hit record. It's neat to be able to talk to other people that do what you do in different markets And our little, you know, tips and I'd say tricks, but well, little strategies, right? We're not tricking anyone, but yeah, yeah, but just how to communicate better or talk, you know, handle an objection better. It's, it's, it's a cool place to be in.

Yeah, well, and it is. And the thing is, is none of us ever know everything. So it's, it's good to always be acting like a sponge and soaking in what you can.

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All right, let's dig maybe a little bit in into what you do. So you shared with me— I don't know if we hit it before we hit record or not, but Kind of share with them what the types of calls you get, you get sent on.

So the majority of what we see on the daily is, you know, my water quality is terrible. You know, the water stinks in the house. My faucets are crumbling and breaking off as we speak to my water pressure is terrible. Yeah, I, I have— we've had a lot of clients where they're like, yeah, my faucets have been this way for several years. And then when they realize that their water lines are Solid as a rock. It's like, oh, I didn't know that was a thing. To backed up kitchen drains, to every drain in the house is backing up. Yeah. All the way to I have no heat in the house, I have no hot water. I mean, these are the ones you want.

You get sent on. Yeah. Just your other plumbers. Okay. Very good. Very good. Now, when you, when you get dispatched on a call, what, what, what process you undergo as you're going there? Do you look at the customer notes? How do you get your mindset right? What's, what's, what's your process?

Well, and that's a, that's another helpful thing is with the, like with the call taker. They're a huge part in that, especially with my role, is, you know, they have a— in fact, we've been using like ServiceTitan, which I absolutely love that. But so you can actually go and you can listen to the original call of the client expressing their frustrations or their worries, and then you can be like, oh, I see. Like, so they haven't had water pressure for so long. And so then that gets my mindset like, okay, so we've probably got to Possible repipe. We can have fixtures that are completely plugged off. I mean, we don't know. Yeah, but that just that kind of gets you programmed. Do you listen to every call? I mean, I try to. There's some I don't get to listen.

Yeah, yeah, you get busy or whatever. But that's the because I bet you also kind of get a sense for the person's personality who you're who you're going to be dealing and their temperature.

Oh yeah, you can tell right off if they're just like easily set off or if they're just like I'm. I mean, we've had people call crying. You know, just like, I just, I don't know what to do. And, and you feel bad for them. And so it's— yeah.

Sure, sure. All right. So you do your prep work. Anything you do driving to the call on top of that? Listening to music or you just kind of chill out or you just like—

No, I, I have my, I have my daily routines is, you know, I've got to have my, got to have my jams, got to, yeah, got to get pumped, you know. But the other thing too is, and I'm not every day, I'm not successful this way every day. There's, there's some hard days and easy days. But I always try to remind myself, like, it's going to be a good day. You know, when I jump in the truck, I tell myself that, I tell the coworkers that, and, you know, I'm sure they get tired of hearing that, but it is going to be a good day. Yeah, we can make this work. That's great. I love that. I love that. All right.

So you, you get to the house, you know, you pull up, you get out quickly, walk up, knock on the door. They open the door, they let you in. So at that, right away, we got to try and make a connection, right? Make a friend. So how do you go about making a connection? There's certain questions you ask? Or do you like to give a compliment right away? How do you go about that?

You know, and I've fluctuated with this through the years. But what I've become most confident and comfortable with is I like to introduce who I am, obviously. And when they get dispatched my information, it sends a picture of me. And hopefully it's a fairly reasonable smile picture. But this guy's coming to your door, you know, But I introduce myself and I do try to say like, hey, I know parking here is weird. Is this an okay spot where I'm parked? And then I go in and I say, so I would really like to hear— before I tell you more about myself, I'd really like to hear about what's going on here. Like, tell me what is the reason why you called us? Why? What's, what's the stress? Tell me a story. Sometimes I'll tell people. Sure.

Now, will you do that in the doorway or do you go find a place to kind of sit down?

Or— I usually, I usually try to do it at the door and I try to read the client at the door.

Yeah.

Because you can tell if they're very nervous about you coming in, or if they're just like, man, come on in, I want to show you this. It's— I've got stuff everywhere. Yeah.

And so you let them take you right to the spot. You won't say, look, let's slow down.

Okay, let's go. I mean, if— yeah, I try to read what kind of person they are. And if they're the ones that take me to the spot, then I say, hey, let's go. And then I just, I just say, you tell me what's going on. Okay. And then I let them explain and even vent if they have to. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'm like, man, I'm really sorry. Like this. I wish this was a better circumstance, you know, sympathize. Absolutely. That's great. Do you—

it sounds like you don't, you know, sometimes people like, do this, don't do this. They offer like a credibility statement. Hey, I've been doing this for 20 years. I know. Do you do that right away? Or just kind of let them vent and then go from there?

I usually will let them tell me what's going on. Yeah. And then, you know, try to get a full feeling of what, what the situation is, the temperature in the room. And then I try to reassure them right then and there with credibility. Like, I I promise you, I'm sorry this is happening, but I promise you we will come up with a solution.

That's right. So you're going to always do that?

Oh yeah, absolutely. That's great.

That's reassuring because, you know, someone's crying like you said, it's like, oh my God. Yeah, I do. Yeah, sure.

So yeah, and I, and I go into more detail like, and there again, it just depends on who I'm dealing with. But, you know, I say like, you know, M&R Plumbing, M&R Service, I mean, they've been in here since '54. And so we're here for the long haul. We are going to give you a solution that's going to work and we will not walk away here until it is fixed or to where you don't have to worry about it anymore. That's fantastic.

I'm assuming you do like a safety inspection or a home inspection?

Yes. Okay.

Now, now, are you doing that like as soon as you start? If they walk you to the problem, are you kind of observing as you go and taking a, you know, like a digital picture in your mind?

I do most of the time. I don't— I don't get to the full-on inspection until towards the end. Okay. I realize that works differently for multiple people. But yeah, for me, what I do try to do is like what you said is as I'm going, like they say, oh, my kitchen sink hasn't drained correctly in years. When we open that kitchen sink up and I'm getting my pictures for my debrief or whatever, that's great.

You always take pictures. Yes.

Then you look and be like, that valve should not be caked with hard water deposits or whatever. Or yeah, there's a big old puddle with a bucket underneath there, you know? So Try to observe as much as you can. But yeah, how do you talk to—

I want to— yeah, this— I'm glad you brought— you kind of veered that way because I want to talk about that. Someone has like a stuck valve or, you know, slow water pressure and they think it's just a simple place a valve and you're on your way, right? It's a simple $300— maybe in their mind it's a couple hundred buck fix. Yeah, right. Because they don't know. Or— no, exactly. They don't know what plumbing costs. So how do you talk to them about, you know, this is an issue with the water line? It's, it's just filled up. You know, talk about maybe how would you educate me on that?

Okay, well, that's that's a good question. So especially if if the job calls for low water pressure, for example, we all keep what we call like the lazy hand gauges where you can just thread it into a hose bib or a faucet outside, or worst case scenario, you can thread it into the the drain port of a water heater. Sure. And just say like, well, while I'm here, let's let's just take a look at what your main water pressure is doing right now, and we'll screw that in, turn it on, and be like. You know, oh, it's it's only reading you know forty pounds pressure. I was like, that's that's pretty that's pretty terrible. Yeah, we're up in Durango. What we also get calls on too is we get too high a water pressure where it's blowing seals out of faucets left and right. My water heater's puking out the side, and because the city lines are running like 100 to 120 PSI, so it's it's a more so it's a it. It saves a lot of time if you just throw a gauge on, you know. And so that's how we try to explain that to them. Sure, sure.

Do you then kind of go down to the water heater and go— and then that gives you not—

well, I hate to say an opportunity, but you do see what the age is and the condition is.

So you'd say, hey, Mrs. Jones, you go— so how do you then talk to them about, okay, so you got this, the bad water pressure, and now you've got, you know, really it's a 15-year-old water heater. You can tell it's kind of leaking. They didn't know it. Yeah. So how do you go This is educating Mrs. Jones that this probably is, you know, a safety concern and, and just a concern in general.

Right. So right about then when I start noticing other things that are tied to it, like if I'm measuring water pressure and I see that the connections on the water heater are corroded or the bottom of the tank is like sweating, I'm like, I wanted to point this out to you while I'm— while we're here looking at this, you know, is it a red flag right now? No, it's not. I mean, I try not to give them the scare. Tactic, but I says, "But but if it was my home, like I would be worried about that, and I would appreciate if someone told me about it." And then at that point, I would say, "And if if you would like, I can also go just take do a quick inspection, just make sure there's no other fixtures that are corroded and dripping or getting ready to break off as we speak." Okay. And then we'll even take pictures and and send you the pictures if you have them, and if if you're interested in us doing that while we're here. Very good thing.

So, so when you notice whether it's the initial problem or the reason, you know, one of the other reasons that that problem has surfaced, you use that as an opportunity to go, let's take a look at what other issues are just to make sure you understand what's going on.

Exactly. Okay. Very good. All right.

You said you do a lot of water quality, so people either the water stinks or— I mean, how often do you go? I mean, do you go to a lot of like toilet calls where the water breaks down? Yeah. So maybe talk about that. So I call you out. I think I just have bad flapper or whatever. It's a ancient toilet. Exactly. And all of a sudden you're talking to me about water quality. So how does that conversation go?

Well, so normally what we run into in this— it's a fact, we had one just last week. The client said, well, this toilet just constantly is running just nonstop. I've put filler valves, I put flappers in, and it just sits there just constantly. And so we open up the tank and we look at it and we're like, oh, it's full of dirt. Like there's, there's a thin layer of sediment just built up at the bottom of the tank. Even around the flapper. And so, you know, right then and there, if there's that much dirt there, it's also getting into your fill valve and more than likely your, your stop valve in the wall, you know. So we're like, this is an opportunity for a sediment filter or sediment carbon filter. Just, just bare bones protection for your lines.

Right. So in those situations, like when you fast forward a little bit and you're building out your options, is it for like a A toilet rebuild, a new toilet, and then a toilet new toilet with a with a water conditioning in it. Yes.

That's how you kind of look. Yeah. And then depending and glad you brought that. So depending on the condition of the actual tank, like if we open it up and it's got some dirt in it, then we go to look and see if the flapper is getting like hard water deposits stuck to it. And I'm like, oh, looks like it's been a few years since this toilet's had any pieces put into it. Yeah. So we build that in as a rebuild toilet, and then. If it's a toilet that's just like ancient of days where it's like, you know, 10 inches off the floor kind of toilet, then we're like, we could also give you an option to get you a toilet where you don't have to get a hoist to pull yourself off because— and that's, that's just what you run into. Oh, yes.

Yeah. They don't realize that. Yeah. So, okay, let me, let me take it this way first. So if you get one really old toilet in an old house, do you— are you able to say, hey, Mrs. Jones, do you want me to look at your other toilets? Because if you're having problems with this one, Maybe you're having it with the other bathrooms, one or two bathrooms you have.

And honestly, what I'll do is if she and I are right there next to the toilet, I'll be like, are you experiencing any of this with the other toilet? And she'll be like, most of the time, yeah, actually, like last month I had to have someone come and put a little flapper on it or whatever. And then we'll be like, well, can we go take a look at it?

And yeah, you know, when you keep— I'm always with plumbing. There's so much plumbing stuff. Oh man, so much. So like if you're like, okay, let's look at some new toilets and maybe you get the soft close, the higher one. How do you how do you talk to someone about their options on toilets?

Well, so I I kind of have a little joke, but I share with people. But I'm like, so we can provide you some options for a new toilet. Yeah. The coolest thing about it is whatever option we go with, we can get you what we call the right height toilet. So you're not gonna. Have an issue getting up off of it, but depending on how Mercedes you want, and that's how I even word it to them, and they kind of you know have a little chuckle. Yeah, they're like, "Well, Mercedes, I want a Mercedes toilet." And I was like, "I mean, because you can you can spend a ton of money on a toilet." And so I just I'd let them know right then and there. I was like, "Depends on how fancy you want to go.

We can give you those options as well." So we you just have certain toilets that you know you guys always use. Yes. Okay. Yes. And that allows you to build.

Yeah. So we have like, like with the straightforward pricing, we'll have like our, our standard deluxe and premier option toilets. Okay. And so bare bones toilet is, it's all right height, but it's not going to be, you know, thousands of dollars to swap it out.

So they at least kind of like, well, they got to ask you and you say Mercedes, Corey, what are we talking about price-wise? Do you tell them it's ballpark or you say, oh, we could talk about that in a minute when we do options?

Or how do you kind of deflect that objection? And then, and I guess I try not to look at it as an initial objection yet. They're just more so just kind of shopping a little bit. Sure. So I tell them I'm kind of vague at first. I'm like, well, you know, after the Mercedes comment, I say, well, you can be anywhere from your, your basic of like a $400 to an $1,800 toilet. Just depends on what's the best fit for you guys. Yeah. And we'll go more in detail when we can put our options together and things like that. So. Very good.

That's a lot of the, I guess, typical plumbing issues before you get into the drains. Yes. But so, so, you know, I called you out for, you know, leaky valve and all of a sudden we've gone through all these things. When you go to build out your options, do you like to sit down with the homeowner? Do you go to your truck?

What are you comfortable with? So and that's— that has been a— that has been a culture shift for me personally. Yeah. So before, you know, I got into the habit of like, well, hold on just a minute, I'm going to go sit in my truck with my straightforward pricing guide and I'm going to start typing this all out and then I can come back. And what I was finding out and with, you know, obviously with the guidance of SGI and the owners, they're like, well, actually, it'd be good while it's fresh on your mind to like pull it out and be like, this is kind of where we're looking at.

Yeah.

And so what I've tried to do is whether it's in person And like up in Durango, there's a lot of homeowners that don't live there. They're out of state. We've got people that have like 10 rental properties. And so but you still have to call the person in New York City. Yeah. And be like, hey, I'm at this house over on Delwood Avenue and we— this is the situation we have, you know, and I kind of re-explain the situation even though we went through this with the tenants already. And that way they're all on board and then we just do it over the phone. And then after that, we'll— I always tell them, we'll email you all of this broke out and everything with all the options. But I, I find it's more successful if you actually give them the prices and everything upfront in person or over the phone.

Yeah. How much are you doing over the phone?

I mean, I would say it's maybe like 60/40, really 60 in person, 40 over the phone. That's a Okay.

Yeah. Okay. So, so let's, let's— well, either situation, this works. Again, I called you out. I thought it was going to be a $50 pair. I think you said kind of shuffling and all of a sudden gone through all this stuff and it's thousands of dollars. Right. What, you know, how do you handle this? I guess you always present it in a— with a finance price and some of that stuff. Yes.

Okay. Well, yeah. So what we— what I normally do, and that's what I appreciated about the Service Titan, is Service Titan will actually automatically calculate it down to the lowest possible monthly payment that it could be for them. And so I'll always just say while we're presenting, like, hey, so if you go this route and we do financing, you know, you could pay as low as this much a month.

You know, what kind of financing product do you guys use? Oh, we really go over—

normally use GreenSky. There's been some other outfits that we've played around with, like Hearth and Fortiva a little bit, but we're, you know, we're still— we've been pretty solid with GreenSky.

What do people like? Is it just like the longest number of months possible or is it like zero? Depends on the situation.

But where I'm at right now, I think the majority of what, what gets them is a 6-month or a 12-month same as cash. Okay. Basically. Okay.

Very good. Now you guys have a club membership, right?

Yes. Okay.

Now do you always bill— when do you— let's, let's back up a second. Sure. When do you first mention the club during the call?

So most of the time, depend— most of the time I do it when I'm doing my options. Okay. I bring it out and say there's other options that we'd like to share with you, you know, that helps make your life a little simpler. And we go into more detail about like what we call the Diamond Club. Yeah. What it's going to do for you, you know. And in this case, you know, we try not to say that it's going to save you money right then and there because a lot of times we'll get people that'll just say, well, I'd like that Diamond Club. And then when I'm done with this job, I'm going to cancel it. Yeah. Yeah, you know, so how do you limit the cancellations?

Do you require they have it for a certain amount of time?

So we do it for an annual— it's an annual contract, basically. Yeah, we sign you up for the year and then we'll check in with you at each year and be like, hey, how's this been working out for you? Is there anything we can improve or do differently for you? And I mean, you'll still get a few cancellations here and there where they were more so just focused on the discount. Sure, you know, but Do you build the club into every option or 2?

Or like, how many— first of all, how many options do you typically build?

So I try plumbing service depending on how much is needing to be done, anywhere from 3 to like 8 options. Wow. Depends on what we're doing. Do people like it?

They can see— I mean, 8 options.

I do get— I do get some confusion there. So what I end up having to do, if I have to go more than 5, then I'm like, okay, so what I'm going to do is tell you what these all are. Okay. But then I can separate them out as individual estimates. And then a lot of our clients that are, you know, elderly, you know, nothing against elderly, but when they're elderly, they're like, what in the world?

Just what do we need to do here?

You know? And so it's like, okay, sure, sure, sure, sure.

So how do you decide how to construct your options? Is it just based on the type of work or, you know, how do you decide what's, what's the bottom option versus the Cadillac? Right. So. Right. And then what do you take away from the Cadillac to make the 2, the 2nd and 3rd options or whatever?

So normally I do try to build it more like lowest to mid-grade to highest. Yeah. And then after that, like, I'll— and then I'll do— this is a Diamond Club. And then this is also— we also do financing as another option. The other thing that we've been trying to incorporate more is like, especially if it's a water situation, we also can install a smart valve for home. Most everybody has a home that They don't know where the shutoff is, or maybe it doesn't even have a shutoff. And we talked to them about how this will prevent you from, you know, having a house flooded. It'll tell you what's going on. And then that's another option that you can talk about.

Yeah. Now, let's say, you know, you close the deal, you're the advisor. You said most situations— I mean, are you ever doing— you said a little— sometimes you do a little bit of the work. It's a smaller call or something like that.

Yeah. Is there—

is there a certain dollar amount that, okay, if it's over $1,000, we're booking it for an install team or How do you guys decide when you do it versus an install team?

Most of the time, most of the time, you know, it's either, it's either a lead from, from a technician that's already been out for another thing where they're like, ooh, this looks like a pretty sizable project. We'll, we'll get a plumbing advisor out here. Got it. And then that turns into a lead and then that way they, they get credit for it as well. But other times it's like if the guys are just swamped and then the phone rings Saying, hey, we need to run up to this guy. He's having low water pressure or whatever issues. Then we can go and take it out. And then if we kind of look it over, then we can try to sell the project, get it all set up for the technician. That way we can get it on the schedule. The technician can go out another day or that afternoon and get them back online.

I was going to ask, how long is the lag time?

Sometimes that afternoon, sometimes when it's much a week or so, which we try not to go over like 2 or 3 days, especially if something is dire. Yeah. If it's, if it's a, if everything's flowing and everything, but they just, they just want to have their sewer line replaced, then we're like, okay, well, we'll, we can book that out a few weeks and get it figured out.

But what, how do you handle— Corey, I like you. I was hoping you would do the work. How do you handle that?

That, that, you know, I do, I do get that a lot. And, and, and I mean, I'm not tooting my horn. I just, you know, build a relationship. You have that relationship. Yeah. And so what I tell them is like, well, I'll tell you what, I will come when the technician gets here and I will go through over everything with you and then you'll do that personally.

Oh yeah. So you manage your own schedule in that regard? I do. Oh, okay.

It helps a lot. Okay. Yeah, that does. But yeah, that helps kind of, you know, ease their worries. Sure, sure. Okay. Let's—

I want to transition to more, you know, sewer stuff, slow drains in the sewer. So You go to a drain call, they got slow drains. I don't know what's going on. I think, you know, maybe as a hairy homeowner, I just think there's too much hair in my— you know, it's just a quick fix. And little do I know what's really going on under the ground. So how do you— so let's— you talk through your process and how you handle a drain call with a home.

So and like, especially like on a drain call, we always try to keep that to the technicians. We'll have some drain technicians that will specifically bring their small machines, large sewer machines. And then we'll scope it out most of the time. You know, oh, I've got a kitchen sink that's draining slow or whatever. Yeah, we go and look at it and it's just full of grease. Yeah. So then that brings us to an option of like our Bio One treatment, you know, trying to keep the Bio One to where it'll treat every drain in the house. Sure. Or maybe it's just plum full of hair and it just needs to be cleaned out really well. Yeah. And so They, the technicians try to offer the options there of like some alternative cleaning and things like that. But while they're there on site, they try to say, well, while we're here, would you like us to also take a look? I mean, has this been going on a long time? Like, have you had a lot of other drain issues? And if they make any mention at all, they say, well, if you're interested, we can go ahead and check out your main line and just make sure it's not having any root buildup or anything like that.

And you said you guys have a camera. Yes. And you use it all how frequently?

I try to use it every time we get on a call. Yeah. Sometimes our cameras will get spread out a little bit, so we're like, okay, let's make a note so we can get back over and scope that real quick while it's fresh on everybody's mind.

Sure, sure. And then you get to— do you show the homeowner what's going on?

Yes, absolutely. Okay. Yeah. So the camera, one of the cameras that we use, it's actually you can just pull it up on your iPad and then you can be like, And I've even been like, well, will you hold the screen for me real quick?

Yeah.

Can you see that? All right. Because we're going to go down some dark secrets here. Let's see what you've been washing. And they go, oh my. I'm like, no, no, no, just— you'll see what I mean. Yeah. So then we start going down and then you can just slowly push the camera and be like, so this is where you have cast iron that's transitioning into clay or Orangeburg or whatever, you know, and then you can actually point out and then take a screenshot and they'll be like, oh, what is that? Oh, well, that's, that's a root ball that's actually starting and it's actually pushing the side of the Orangeburg in. Yeah. You know, and then they're like, oh my goodness, you know, and then, then it explains to them. It doesn't, it doesn't freak them out most of the time, but they're just like, I had no idea. Right. You know.

Right. So, so, Corey, what do I do about that? How do you— what— I'm sure that question comes.

Yes. Right. They're like, so can we go ahead and rod that out for now? And I says, we can totally rod that out. We can clean that out nice and pretty for now. But just let's, let's finish going down this line and let's just see what else is going on. And then when by the time we get all the way to the main or a septic, wherever they're at in town, you know, we'll be like, okay, well, you've got roots here, you've got roots here, you've got roots here, and the pipe's even starting to deform. So It's not going to get better. Yeah. You know, with, with cleaning it out and we're happy to clean it out. Yeah. But we'd also like to talk to you about some like replacement options. And then that's usually when they'll get into the concerns of, well, what about this $4,000 retaining wall that my husband just put in? Yeah. Or what happens to my landscape? Right. Well, and that's where we go right into like, well, we can do pipe bursting, we can do cure-in-place liners and yeah, and get you all squared away.

Now, do you have that conversation as you're standing there looking at the iPad or you go sit down somewhere?

We have it right there, right there while we're covered in the stuff. And we'll be like, I mean, you know, we just, we just mentioned to them like, hey, this is an option. It's, it's not the end of the world.

You know, I'm assuming those homeowners were like me when I— before I got into this stuff, I had no idea what pipe bursting and reline— like, except barely knew that I had a line in my main anyway. So how do you educate people about what each of those products are?

So I used to Just it used to be diarrhea of the mouth, where it's just like, well, let me tell you all this really cool thing. You got a big head and it just does all this, and then you just see their face just glaze. Yeah. So what we did, and we even got into a little more with the marketing, is we have some people put some videos together of like actual us actually doing a line pull, what we call line pull, the pipe bursting. Yeah. And then I just have a link and I go, I can show you real quick what the pipe bursting looks like here. And so we'll actually click on that link. It's a short video. You don't want to bore them. Sure. But just so they can actually see the process, they're like, oh, I see. So you dig a hole here, you dig a hole out there, and then if you have access, you can burst through that thing and pull a brand new line. Or if you've got a cast iron clay line that's going underneath the slab and up this 3-story hotel, guess what? We can go in from here and go all the way to the top and we can blow in a liner and then seal it up.

Yeah. Do people ask which one's better? Which one would you go with? Do you get that question? Yes. Yes. So how do you, how do you explain which one you would go with or do you just say, you know, so what we do is we say we just, it depends on what you, what your circumstances are.

Yeah. So for example, if your line is Orangeburg out in your yard and it is completely smashed in, we say the liner absolutely is not the way to go. Yeah. Yeah. And that actually, and that, and that helps them because they're like, oh, you're not just trying to sell me a liner. No, we want to give you what's going to work, you know? Yeah. But in this case, we want to burst through that thing and pull a brand new pipe in its place, you know? Whereas if we're having to go through 3 stories of drywall, flooring and things like that, I was like, well, we're definitely not going to pipe burst that. Yeah, you can actually line that bad boy and it's ready to go.

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So at that point, we do write out options on that, or you just— is it all on your iPad and they can look at it?

So right at that there. So then while we're out there in the yard with the camera still, So we're like, so after I get this all put up and everything, then I'll go ahead and get some measurements, get a total distance, get a depth of like where it is at the house, out on the street, and then I can go ahead and put some quotes together. Are you needing to run anywhere right now? Because I don't want to hold you hostage. Sure. And they'll say, well, no, I'm here for the rest of the day. And it's like, oh, great. But if they are in a hurry, then I'm like, well, let me, let me try to at least get you the dollar amount or the ballpark of where we're going to be at. Yeah. Before you have to run off. And then what I can do is email you over Its entirety, the quote. Okay. That way it's already in their mind. They're planning on it. Okay.

You know, so they've met at that point and you send them an email, you quote. Is there multiple options on that quote or they decided, you know what? And I know some situations it's, it's just going to be relining, right?

Yeah. Versus bursting. Exactly.

So, so, you know, but I mean, are you sometimes sending multiple options on that?

I'm glad you asked that. So, and especially like up in Durango, And I toot Durango a lot, but that's where I'm at. So I would say 80% of the houses we go to, they don't have cleanouts. So we have to pull a toilet to even get in the line. So what we, what we do a lot of times is we offer that as a base option. Yeah, we'll be like, well, for one thing, it would be great if you had some cleanouts right here because then if you back up next week or 2 weeks from now, hey, we don't have to pull your toilet next time. That's crazy. We don't have to make a mess and drag blankets through the house. We can do it all right here in your yard. And so just bare bones, that's our first option. Yeah. Is let's get you some cleanouts if you want. We're already digging a hole in your yard. We can go ahead and pipe burst that. Yeah. And as part of the pipe bursting, we put in cleanouts anyways and it's not additional, you know. And then of course we offer like the membership and the financing and things like that.

And I want to make this— I want to bring this up because it's interesting.

I think people will be surprised.

You guys really don't offer a full dig. To replace the line, do you guys prefer to do the relining or burst?

Well, when we consider when we consider how much money and heartache and landscape it's going to save, we we definitely go that route first.

Yeah.

Well, we will tell them, and we've had clients say, "Well, what if I just want to do it the good old-fashioned way, Corey? What if I want to get a backhoe out here and rip this whole place up?" I was like, "It's totally possible." Yeah. And we will do it. But what you need to understand, and I I try to explain them like. With this city that we're working with, you're not only paying to replace a 4-foot by 8-foot square of asphalt when you're digging up that whole trench, we got to replace the sidewalk, we got to replace a 15-foot section of asphalt and then all the material down below. So, I mean, it's— there's a lot of cost involved. Yeah. Yeah. So just try to walk them through there again, not trying to scare them, but just so they can see like, hey, this is where you're— this is where we're at.

You know, so if you email someone a quote, how do you follow up, make sure they didn't start calling? Well, first of all, are there any other companies in town that are doing stuff like this? I know it's a small market.

There's, there's a company.

You don't have to name names.

Well, there's a company about like 8 hours away that will, that will come down to give quotes for like lining and things like that. But as far as like the pipe bursting, no.

So when, so when you email someone a quote, you're not worried about them You know, shopping that around, per se.

I've had clients say, well, I would like to get another quote. Yeah, just to, you know, just to do my due diligence. That's the phrase they always use. I'm like, okay, well, I mean, I respect that. Yeah. And then I always say, well, but at the same time, you know, and before this, I also go over, you know, the price doesn't just include us doing this project. The price is also our warranty and our guarantees. Okay.

Whereas now, real quick, when you bring that up, when you're showing them the— when you're out there in the grime and you go purely out and just, by the way, this is what happens when you work with M&R. Do we go through that? Okay, now go ahead, continue. What else do you say?

So while, while we, while we warranty the install of this line for a certain period of time, we will also guarantee that line for 20 years that it's not going to give you any problems. Yeah, like basically we own this line. And so If you do go get another estimate, I want you to— I want you to do me a favor and I want you to make sure you're going to get an apples-for-apples quote because not a lot of people are going to even give you a guarantee that that thing is going to last that long. Very good.

So your team that does all this relining and bursting, I mean, that's probably going to take a ton of training.

Those guys are awesome. Yeah.

How long have you had those guys been with your team?

Well, so like for the pipe bursting, like I'd mentioned in Farmington, they'd been doing the pipe bursting for probably 8 years before we moved into Colorado. The same team or a couple of guys? Some of them are same. We've got a lot of new guys that came on later on after— yeah, after we— shortly after we came up to Colorado. Yeah. But we've got a couple of foremen that are just, I mean, sharp, like just they're awesome guys. Thing I love about it is even, even sometimes I'll run into some tricky, you know, 3-story buildings or whatever and we'll be like, well, let's face— I want to FaceTime the foreman here real quick and I kind of want to show him like what is our access points. Yeah. And I even do that with the clients. I mean, Sometimes so they can kind of see, they can hear what we're talking about and they know, oh wow, so it's got— it's going to involve— we might have to notch a little drywall under the sink or, you know, things like that to get all the access points that we need. How much objection do you really get then?

I mean, we're— I mean, I know, you know, you're—

I want to get another bid, but man, if I'm—

if it is a homeowner, I'm thinking if I'm standing there with you and seeing how complicated this is, and then you guys seem very professional and you've got, you know, Do people go try and find other bids, or they're like, you know what? You guys know what you seem to know what you're talking about. I like you. I mean, do you get much pushback?

Most most of the time what we get, we do we do get some pushback. Yeah, it's all funny. It is. Most of the time what we get is, well, I need to I need to think about this. Yeah, which I mean, I I tell them I was like, I encourage you to think about it. I want this to be what you want to do, you know. But I I also want to remind you that. This is not going to go away. It's got to be addressed one way or the other, you know. So people want to think about it.

Do you just kind of say, hey, I'm going to go do something and give them like 10 minutes to process what's all going on? Or are you not even push it and just try to call them the next day?

What do you do? So that's what I do. Yeah. Especially because a lot of times it'll be the husband or the wife that's there and they're like, well, I would like to talk to my spouse and just let them know like, here, this is what we're getting at. And I says, well, That's great. Can I set up a time or something next tomorrow morning that I could follow up with you guys to see if you have any questions? The way it's still fresh on everybody's mind. Yeah. What is the average ticket on, say, a reline job? Well, and there again, it depends on the length. Yeah, but like a, like a pipe, like if we pipe burst through the yard going from the house to the street and you're, you know, you're 40 feet line or whatever, we're probably like Probably like $13,500, $14,000. I'll settle on there.

All right. Now, now, it's expensive jobs. Yes. And is the financing— you said people before like the same as the 0%. Yeah. Even on those, they like the 0% or those they want to stretch?

A lot of them they do. I mean, and I'm like, well, I mean, and but I give them all the options. I tell them we have a 5-year at a low percent interest and then we have a 7-year at a higher percentage, you know.

Now, how do you get big? So I know with software it puts the lowest option out there. It does, right? But so when do you know you got to have that conversation about, well, let's talk about your other financing options? Like, do they go, what, what does that mean? What am I paying in interest?

Okay, so what, what, what happens there? You're reading the cues, the facial cues, like the wincing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it's like, well, I can give you a better idea of what your monthly payment estimated would be, you know, if you went It's clear into 7 years or whatever. Yeah. And then we just try to calculate it out for them right there on site, and that way they can kind of have it in front of them, be like, yeah, I could do— I can't do that. I absolutely can't do that. But I could do here or here.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I won't miss that $100 a month.

Yeah, that really is over the term.

Yeah, that makes sense. All right, very good. So on those kind of projects, how fast is that turnaround versus when it's sold versus when you can Put the new line in.

Yeah. So once, once it's sold, depending on how, like I said earlier, depending on how drastic the situation is, if they're flowing, usually we try to do it within like a week or two, you know, of that, of that sell. That way it's, it's ripe. You know, in Durango this year especially, we got a lot of snow. So people are like, well, you guys, you guys can't do anything in the snow. There's 4 feet of snow out here. And I was like, oh, absolutely we can. You know, we— I mean, it's not, you know, I'm not saying that it's fun for the guys, But they're set up to do it. We're not scared of it. We obviously know that you need a sewer line.

So do you ever deal with cancellations where you sell it or you get a deposit to keep them locked in? Or how do you do that? Occasionally.

Occasionally we'll run into some— I'm trying to think of the diplomatic way of saying it. Occasionally you run into some interesting ones, if you will. Yeah. Where You know, you feel like there was a good vibe all the way through the visit. They even left you a good review on Google. Yeah. But then like 2 days later, they call in something, something like scared them or I don't know what it was. And they're like, I don't know. You know, I just, I, I don't know. And, you know, we still try to address that like, well, I'm, you know, I'm sorry you feel that way. Is there, is there anything that we could have done different there? You know, try to get their feedback a little bit. Most of the time what happens is, is if that line is what it is, they call back a month later and be like, I'm desperate to do this. I've got to get this thing done. Yeah. So they know we've put a good taste in their mouth. They know, they know what's going on. And I tell them too, I was like, call me any time if you have questions. If you got a family member that has questions, if I need to talk to somebody over in Geneva, I'll answer their questions too. Yeah. You know, and most of the time they're like, okay.

Yeah. So sounds like that's happened. You talk to someone from Geneva?

Not— not— I just— I just pulled that out. All right.

I was pretty specific. Yeah, that's funny. All right. Kind of wrapping up, why do you think you're successful? I know there's probably a lot of long days, right? Is that where you're doing this? So how do you keep— keep up the positivity and the work ethic to sell, you know, the amount that you sold?

For me, you know, it's— I think of— I think of my whys. I think of First of all, I'm grateful for the work. I'm grateful for the opportunity to be with M&R. Like, they've been just phenomenal to work with and they've, they've been patient with me. They've, they've helped me, guide me through the years. But, but when it all comes down to it is what, what drives me to, to keep on going is it— I just, I love, I love having that conversation with a client and being like, when we, when we make that connection where they know I'm not just there to sell a job. I'm there to be like, man, I want to make your life a little better. Yeah. Even if it's just let's take this out and take some garbage out or whatever. I want to, I want to help your life. Yeah. But that on top of, you know, I look at what I've done and I want to improve. I want to, I want to grow. You know, that's cool.

And you guys are, you're a great company. There's just a lot of great people there. They are. You know them for a long time.

So it's a neat place to be, I'm sure. Yes, exactly.

Wrapping up, very last question. What advice might you have for young plumbers or plumbing advisors new to the trade to do well? What would you share with them? Say it at Expo.

I think, you know, and that I asked that question kind of rolls in my mind a lot. But my biggest thing is don't, don't let an opportunity sit, you know, jump on it, jump on it when it's hot. And, and if even if you think the The job at hand, or even if you think the the request that the client has is silly or not, may not even be a lucrative deal. Give them give them what they want. I want to quote Corey on this ancient of days faucet, and and I don't care about anything else in my house. I just want this faucet. Give him that estimate. Give it to him. Yeah. And you you'd be surprised. You'd be really surprised what people will do. That's great.

Well, very good, Corey. Thank you so much for the time. This was. Really enjoyable. I thank you for for giving it to us.

Thank you guys for the opportunity.

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