#153 - AI In Customer Service with Hatch and Chris Bache

Just as painful when you're small as it is when you're large. That make sense? Where AI can do a lot of that work, detecting the customer sentiment, good at responding, looking up unstructured data, giving responses. Yeah, just start early. Make it a muscle. Start— make your sales manager do it. I think it keeps growth up.

We had a couple major pain points. Earlier this year, and those pain points were how do we contact our unsold estimates more frequently? How do we book our membership appointments faster? How do we stay in contact with customers and let them know that we have promotions? And how do we run a speed-to-lead process for Angie's Leads? When looking around for solutions, we saw a couple great softwares on the market, but our favorite one was Hatch. So when we started using Hatch, we had just switched over from another vendor, and Hatch's user interface was so easy. It directly tied into ServiceTitan. It automated the workflow. So from a workflow of 5 or 6 employees a day, we're now in contact with hundreds of additional customers. We're selling a ton of our unsold estimates, and it's easier than ever to book our membership follow-up appointments. So Hatch has been a really big win for us. In order to book a demo with Hatch, click the link below. Welcome back to Owned and Operated. Today with me as a guest, I have Chris Baisch from Hatch. Welcome, Chris.

Hey, thanks for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Yeah, dude. Yeah, this will be good. I'm glad to have you on here too. Today, the topic of conversation is going to be building a rehash program and basically how to communicate more with your customers. We're a user of Hatch in our home service company. We love it. It's been a really big win. I think we got on the software, I wanna say May, maybe April, and I know it's been a really big win for us. Chris, how about you lead us a little bit with your background and what got you serving this software?

Yeah, so a little bit about me. I've basically been in sales and marketing my whole career. We started the company about 9 years ago. What we did when we started the company is we were really like a sales-for-hire company. Where it was myself, my co-founder, and like 3 college students, basically in a very small 300 by 300 room where we were doing rehash for a lot of home improvement companies. We did really well, actually. We built that to almost a $2 million business. But what we found out very quickly is that the operation of rehash isn't something that you can outsource. So people started saying, hey, we want to do this internally. Can we just use the software that you guys use to get in touch with the customers? And that's when we had the idea to build our own software platform. And that's where the idea of Hatch came from. And it's grown so much then, and obviously with technology change and we can get into it. You know, we really are the AI platform for, you know, CSRs that want to do rehash, speed to lead confirmations and sort of figure out how to automate a lot of that and make sure that humans are having the right conversations with the right customers that are going to increase the bottom line for these businesses. That's really what we care about. So, but that's, that's sort of my background.

We were looking for a solution for speed to lead. We were looking for a solution for meta leads and how to get in contact with them. And then our call center takes about 1,000 customer contacts a day. It was just too much. for our old tech stack, which was ServiceTitan messaging. I think it was Front.com, which is sort of like an email aggregator, contact aggregator. So how many clients are on Hash today?

We have over 2,000 businesses, over 10,000 users. So, I mean, we're growing pretty rapidly. The majority of our customers are going to be a little bit larger or they're growing. I would say, you know, they're growing to that space where, you know, handling leads and communication with customers starts to become a problem. And if you don't address it sort of with people and process, then you actually stop growing. growing at a certain point, because you're not sort of optimizing every customer contact that you have in your database, or you're not optimizing every lead. Yeah, I would say the majority of our customers, you know, do at least $3 to $5 million or more in revenue, but they're in like the vertical of HVAC, plumbing.

What I was hoping to get out of this conversation is, you know, a lot of our listeners are under that $5 million mark. This would have been the first time they would have potentially thought about Rehash and what that looks like. So I want to talk about that, how to launch it, What that looks like. For my own learning, I would love to dive into what does best in class look like. You guys had a really great article like a month ago and it drove me nuts. Still, still is driving me nuts because it was like, yeah, these guys are getting 90% response rate. Well, how, how?

Yeah.

So I'd love to see what best in class looks like. Yeah. Let's talk about the first one. Let's say I'm a $3 million plumbing contractor. How about you define rehash for us? What does this even look like? What would the pain point be?

I think the, what I'm seeing, like the best sort of businesses and how they approach this is they think about it in terms of like 3 buckets, like the people that they have out in the field, the process they want to put around it, and the technology they want to put around it to make it sort of rinse and repeatable and accountable. But I mean, I think it's as simple as the business owner sort of needs to define, you know, how long are they willing to wait once a quote is in hand and a customer did not buy to get an answer on if they're going to move forward or not. We see the best in class wait no longer than 48 hours. Most people follow up within 24 hours of the time the customer has a quote but didn't buy. And I would say that most, most business owners want to get that one-call close done, but it just doesn't happen all the time. Of that, whatever, you know, 40 or 50% that don't get closed right there when you're in the home, what do you do with those? Well, put a process around it. And that process looks like 24 or 48 hours afterwards, basically remove the lead from the salesperson so they can work their current day's work and all of their, you know, in-home stuff, and give that to a CSR and let that, let that CSR sort of work that customer. You know, that's the idea behind the process. I think the people that need to be involved is, you know, a manager that sort of owns the idea of improving close rates. So if your close rate is, you know, 25% right now, their goal is to get it to 35%, and they're incentivized to do that, then they're going to be looking at how do I hold people accountable and create sort of a rinse and repeatable process that I can see and is visible to me every day. I think the other person that needs to be involved is, is like a CSR, you know, a customer service rep or a client service rep that is in charge of understanding why people didn't move forward by reaching out to these customers and getting that data and And saying, hey, this is a— this is still an opportunity. Let me pass it to the right person, whether that be the manager or, or someone else. If you don't have a CSR, the manager should do it. I can remember working with customers that, you know, were at that like $1.5, $2 million mark, and the sales manager every day spent 1 hour going through 24-hour aged quotes, getting in touch with those customers, understanding why— most of the time it's price, big, big surprise— and then working with them on does it make financial sense to do the deal. So that's the people, that's the process. And then I'd say, you know, as you figure that out, think about It's about the tech. It doesn't scale unless you have some sort of automated way of identifying that 24-hour drop-off, you know, and then reaching out to those customers in a cadence. It takes more than one attempt. So you're gonna have to have a cadence that touches people, you know, maybe on the first day and the third day and the fifth day. You want to have the messaging be, you know, fairly personal. You know, you're asking that question, you know, is it price, is it timing, whatever, and you're getting those responses in a rinse and repeatable way. And that's sort of how you grow it from just a sales manager doing it and getting that close rate up to then adding a couple of, you know, salespeople And then taking that sort of rehash and giving it to a CSR or even automating it, which is what we're doing with a lot of customers now using AI. And then what happens is it's a numbers game. So if I do 5 of those a day and 2 of them respond back and say, yeah, you know, it was price, and you take that objection and flip it, now you're closing, you know, 3 or 4 more jobs a week that you may have otherwise said, hey, we're gonna move on from those. And if you multiply that times 4 weeks in a month, and then all of a sudden you start to see your close rate. So I would say that's like the classic playbook that I've seen work, really, really well. But it takes discipline. And if you don't have all 3 of those components, the people process and the sort of software and accountability around it, it doesn't work long term, you know.

So I'm sort of surprised, you know, you said your average contractor was like 3 to 5. That blows my mind a little bit. So we'll do 26 this year. We didn't develop a rehash program until November of last year. And it was sort of like, oh, I think we should do that. I'm friends with one of the top 5 largest in the country. And they don't have a rehash program. I was just really surprised. That's a lot of smaller contractors. Because a lot of the big guys like don't have it figured out.

Typically are valuable to customers when they get to $3 to $5 million. The majority of our customers are actually a lot larger than that, and they have call centers and they use Hatch in those call centers. But we're seeing a lot of demand earlier on in the business where people, people are trying to figure out how to— I mean, the leads are getting expensive, dude. You know this, right? Like, so you got to match— you got to maximize every visit you go on. You've paid so much to acquire those customers and you paid so much to go see them and quote them. And, you know, just as painful when you're small as it is when you're large. That makes sense.

I think the pot of money just changes. We were looking at this last November, and a friend of mine had just launched a rehash program. He was maybe $13 million or so. And he's like, yeah, dude, I have this inside sales rep. And he's doing this, doing this rehash thing. And I'm like, alright, what the heck is that? So we started diving in. And we were like, oh, we're leaving $4 million a month unclosed. Like, if I can close a percentage of that, that's a meaningful impact.

Yeah.

We all get focused on that one-stop close and like maximizing that one-stop close. Our closing rate is 50%. And inside sales adds another few points to that, you know, $2 million a month, like, this is real money.

When you guys started putting that together, and you got Hatch, did you sort of say, alright, I need to invest in, like, a person to manage the board, or to, you know, and I need somebody to watch it day in and day out? Okay.

What ours looked like, so we had, you know, we had the ServiceTitan, like, follow-up tab, we hired 3 ISRs basically at the same time, we just started them off with within pretty much 60 days of each other, just sort of building that team up, we're now up to 5. The job is like, hey, let's close $200,000 a month each. Maybe the way to think about this for the smaller contractor, again, we all focus on that first interaction.

Yeah.

So like we get the lead from Google or Angie's List or, you know, whatever, we're gonna go try to sell that lead. And then if we don't sell that lead, the best way to think about that unsold is another lead to now go into a different sales team, which is the inside sales. It was shockingly easy to recruit this team because if you go to any other sales organization in the world and you're like, hey, I've got a pipeline of $10 million for the last 30 days of estimates, which is our current pipeline, it's like $10 million. So $10 million of open pipeline and all you have to do call them and close like 2% of that. It like, it was, it was a dream come true. It was a dream come true. So that's how we positioned it. It took us about 6 months to really get an idea for, okay, how's this going to work? What's the tech stack need to look like for this to be even better? Because a lot of our time was spent calling out to customers instead of, you know, how can we spend more time just communicating on whatever the objection is? How do you get best-in-class performance out of a sort of a rehash system like this? How do you get high response rates? What does messaging look like? Walk me through what the best do.

So the data tells a little bit of a story. You know, you've got basically 7 days after that 24-hour window really to make an impact, and after that the response rates drop pretty drastically. So you basically have 7 days to communicate with the customer. What we also show is that omnichannel touches throughout those 7 days are gonna get your best engagement results. So make a phone call, send a couple text messages, make sure you send an email in there, and you know, on our platform you can drop some voicemails too. But if you do that, your engagement rate goes up. We also find that actually starting with text, you get your highest response And if you do a text message where your, your message gets straight to the point, it's short, you identify yourself obviously, but you know, you're going in there and you're, you're calling out what, what you know to be as a business owner the main reason why people don't buy. And so if you start a conversation and say, hey, we see you didn't move forward, we'd like to talk to you about if price is an issue, we'd like to talk to you about your experience, was it good? You know, like be that blunt. We're seeing those response rates upwards of 75 to 90%, depending how quickly those messages are going out after the, the tech was in the home or the salesperson was in the home. Mm-hmm.

Is there a benefit to like an hour after the salesperson, or is 24 hours—

Well, I think that's a business decision more than anything. I mean, we obviously see a higher response rate an hour after the person leaves the home. I think the question is, do you want to give your salesperson a day to work it, right? Do you want to give them a— like, just imagine them being in the home and the person being like, all right, that's fine, call me tomorrow at 3:00, right? Well, if that's the case, you know, we might want to give them till tomorrow at 3:00. I think it just really depends on the business decision. I have seen a lot of companies just make the hard cut. Hey, if you don't get it done in-home, just pass it back to the team, let the ISR, inside sales team, or let the manager work it so you can focus on your next 3 that day and your 3 tomorrow morning. I think it's a business decision. But yeah, the response rate goes up the sooner you send that first message. But I would say, like, rule of thumb, 7 days after the person's been visited at home, the customer's been visited at home, you know, 5 to 7 messages, you're sort of checking in every day to make sure that, that there's, you know, that all their questions are answered or that they can talk to you about price if that's an objection, or financing or whatever.

Mm-hmm.

You're gonna see your engagement rates up in the 85s. And then it becomes a numbers game again, right? Because you're— you're— 9 out of 10 people are telling you what's up. They're giving you an objection. They're telling you why they didn't move forward. And you can get in front of that and them visiting competitors, or, you know, if it's pricing or financing, you know, just some people are better at talking to customers about that.

So I will be the first one to be hesitant about remote staffing agencies, but honestly, Sagan's been pretty great. We started working with Sagan a few months ago to place a few more complicated positions inside accounting and HR. They had great candidates in a week. And we were able to make our hires in under two and a half weeks, which was awesome. Both of those candidates have now started, and they've been awesome members of the team. So we're super grateful. Make sure you talk to Sagan. If you're interested in learning more, go to sagango.com. S-A-G-A-N-G-O dot com. What do you think about the language and what's inside those messages?

I think it matters. You know, there's some compliance things that we have to keep keep in mind too now, which is not the sexy part of it, but it's just true. So you have to put stuff in your in your text messages, you know, that are kind of like, hey, reply end if you're, you know, you're, you're not interested. We see that content matters. I will tell you this, um, there is a, there's a strong push a lot of times, I think, from— I don't know if you see this— like marketing to sort of include something that's a little bigger inside of a text message. I'll just talk texting first. It doesn't work. Those response rates are like half of what a short, to-the-point message— yeah, message gets. And you would think if you sent something that was nice and sort of beautiful and, and uniform for rehash is gonna get half the response rate. If you send something to the customer that's direct, now it says who you are, but if you say something like, hi, this is John, I'm the owner of, you know, Bass USA, I wanted to reach out personally, the pricing met your expectations, and you just send that, your response, we see that in the data, response rate's like 90%. Have you sent something that's a little bit more fluff and marketing for this use case? Yeah, you're seeing half, so content matters.

See, I believe it. We messed around with our messaging for like Google reviews. The way we started was, hey, you know, Thanks for calling Wilson. Tell us about your experience. We changed the language to feel much more personal. We tripled our review like per week. It was an insane response. We've been experimenting with language inside Hatch too, because yeah, we think the same thing. I don't know that we experimented with length though. I do like the idea, and that does make sense to me. If I get a text that's more than like 30 words, I'm dipping. Kind of black out.

Yeah, exactly. Yep, yep, yep. Well, and you think about, I mean, you text with your buddies and stuff, right? Or your family or anything. When's the last time you really put a novel in a text Yeah, like it doesn't really resonate. That's not what the channel's for, right? It's more of like a quick question, like what's for dinner, where are we going tonight, right? And so same thing, it's like, was it pricing?

You know, it'd be kind of interesting. There's a way to send texts as like iPhone text, like blue, like iPhone messages, and it— the engagement difference is significant. Most of our customers are going to be on iPhones, and when they get the blue, it is a different experience than with green.

Than the green. Yeah, no, we see that too. That is absolutely—

do you guys have that built inside your offering?

We, we have it. You have to activate it though, and it's not something that comes out of the box. It's something we have to like turn on. Yeah, but we see the same thing where— plus, you know, if somebody's typing, I mean, you get so many other like little features that people feel like are personal.

So on the compliance piece, I think this has been coming up more and more. States seem to be tightening this up. Like, what's in your head as you're thinking about the next— I know legislation's coming in in January, right? So how can, how can we continue a rehash program with SMS getting tightened up?

Yeah, I mean, I, I I think we're in a position where we're helping all our customers get not only 10DLC approved, but like stay ahead of the curve when it comes to regulations. And I think that means— I mean, the way that I'm thinking about it is I'm trying to think— I mean, I don't know if you saw this, but like the lead aggregators, like I don't know if you guys buy Angie's Leads or any leads from third-party sources.

Yeah.

Okay. Even that's changing where they're introducing something called a masked lead where you no longer get the customer's contact information. It's actually masked. And now it's your job as a contractor to go get that information. All these privacy laws are sort of coming, and they started in Europe about 4 years ago, and now they're sort of coming here. And it's all about protecting privacy. So, but we still got to do business, right? So the way I'm thinking about it is, is one, we've got to help our customers get the right contact information, and then we've got to help them sort of say the right thing at the right time, right? And so there's gonna be like laws around when you can send them during the day in certain states, not every state. And then like what you say, she's got to be clear On who you are and what your intention is. And then also I'm working with customers on building in what I call like an opt-in list. So as you collect all these leads and you work with these customers, whether they become customers or they just stay prospects, you know, asking them to opt in for discounts, asking them to opt in for communication, then you can continue to message them forever, or at least for 2 years. I call it forever. That's forever in the marketing world, in the, in the communication world. But yeah, helping customers build an opt-in list is huge on the roadmap for us because we want to— we want it so that you can constantly use SMS to communicate with customers and they're just gonna have to opt in. And yeah, that's the laws that are coming.

Yeah. And there's some states that you can't even do this at all, right? Like Florida, you're not able to do SMS, is that right?

No, you are. You're able— you're able to do it in Florida. You're only allowed to communicate with customers about, you know, things that they've opted in to talk to you about, right? So if they said, hey, my HVAC's broken, you can do automated and AI conversations with them, but you can't then go and say, well, great, let's talk about your electric problems, right? So you can't— you can't Mixed sort of 2 pieces of, of business and they're, they're just trying to cut down on, unfortunately it's like a couple bad actors make it, make it suck for the rest of us. 'Cause what was happening is people were just, you know, you'd get a, you'd sign up to, to talk about your HVAC unit and then you'd get a text about maybe an insurance premium for your car and you'd be like, what, what does this have to do with, with the other? Mm-hmm. So they're trying to cut down on the ability for people to—

Can you walk me through the AI component?

I'm glad you asked about that. I mean, that's really the future of, of this thing because AI is, is getting really, I mean, 2 years ago it was, it wasn't great, right? Like the technology itself.

Yeah.

And then, you know, with the advent of really GPT and all the money pouring into solving AI, I mean, the LLMs have gotten so good. It's good at detecting a customer sentiment, right? It's good. It can be good at responding. It can be really good at looking up unstructured data like in your CRM or in other places and giving responses to your customers. So I think about things like, you know, qualifying a lead or even doing rehash and finding out, hey, is this customer really interested and is it price and what's the reason? And then getting that to a human. So I'm calling it like a level 1 CSR or ISR where AI can do a lot of that work. The humans can spend more time in like the valuable conversations. And so we launched this product like 6 months ago and it's growing, you know, almost, almost 5x month over month. Businesses are realizing it's sort of hard to staff the level 1 CSR, right? That's doing the sort of going through and disqualifying, qualifying, getting sentiment. And it's really, really growing. So it's interesting. And I think it's only going to— it's going to keep on growing from there, right? You think about about AI being able to interact with your calendar and know when you have availabilities and when you don't, and being able to see, you know, data inside your system to be able to answer questions and combining all of that. I mean, AI can do a lot of that stuff, leaving the negotiation and the in-person and the deep stuff to humans.

Yeah, they call that, uh, it's human in the loop, right? Where like it's meant to be the first initial simple stuff is handled by AI. The moment there's anything remotely whatever, This sounds like that's how this works too?

Yeah, I mean, it's, that's the, I think that's the phase in which we're at. I was looking at metrics the other day. I think we have like 25% of all of our AI conversations, no humans involved. 75%, they're involved. And that's not a bad thing, right? It's like part of the intent is to sort of transfer upon some sort of rule. You might have a business rule like, hey, if the customer brings up a commercial job, that's, you know, send that to somebody. Like, please don't deal with that. And so yeah, it's definitely the human in the loop. And that's like the, I think first phase of AI you're gonna see here. in the next, you know, over the next 24 months. And then I think after that, it's gonna be able to go deeper just because the investment, you know, that the world's putting into making sure that this stuff becomes intelligent. Now, I will say, with all that being said, like, AI will completely lie to you and hallucinate. You have to be able to control it, especially in a business environment. Did you hear about that story where a car dealership deployed AI and it—

Oh yeah.

It sold a Tahoe for a dollar. And so like, that's what we're really focused on is making sure that you can program it to understand your business logic and your business rules and your CRM, 'cause you don't want it going out there and selling an HVAC unit for $5. You know, that's ridiculous.

The way that we continue to think about technology in call center or in Rehash at all is like a lever. So if I've got these human beings, how can I have all of the working hours or all of the working minutes be meaningful instead of— I mean, even just a year ago, 60 to 70% of their day was calling and getting voicemail. So now we're able to just have more conversations every day. And that sounds like that's what AI does too, is it serves you up more buyers with intent. That's the phrase that we use internally.

That's exactly the way I think And look, I mean, as, you know, at least what we're seeing in the market, you know, I mean, if you're contemplating hiring a human, it's, you know, it's expensive. And so if you hire them and you can't have, you know, you don't want them to attrit, so you got to hire, you got to pay well enough to keep the good folks. And you want to continue to do that, but that means that, you know, you're not gonna be able to hire as many. And so what you want to do is sort of figure out which part AI can handle and which part should the human be handling. And to me, I've seen it become very apparent where it's like, you know, any big deals or negotiations around closing sales or any of that stuff, you know, that's, that's human, you know, sort of higher-paid individuals can deal with that really well and close business. But then on like the disqualifying and what's your address and do we service the area and tell me a little bit about your project and, you know, you know, any of that, or, you know, was it price or financing and just getting that information and collecting it like that, that can be, that can be put on autopilot.

What are the other use cases you guys are seeing for automated communication? I mean, membership communication, appointment We want to use Hatch to automate our AR collections process. You know, if we set some rules around, hey, there's a balance here, fire off a message and see if we can convert dollars faster. Any other great use cases you can think of?

I love the accounts receivable use case. That makes total sense to me. And then like if they engage, you know, you can, you can have a bot send a link, you can have a human send a link. I think that's really smart. And then continue to follow up if they, if they don't have interaction with it. I mean, that's some really cool use cases there. Another good use case I've seen, which is interesting, which is like recruiting, they have lists Like, you know, and they need to get in touch with people and see if they're open for a job. And there's like, you know, they've got 500 people on a list and it's like, let's reach out to them and see if they're still in the market for employment, which is an interesting one.

I actually don't know if we've tried this with Hatch, but we did try it with Chirp and it didn't work. And it was going to be speed to lead for recruitment. So the idea was like, if you get Angie's lead, you contact the customer immediately in 12 seconds or whatever. And we wanted to do that the moment an Indeed resume landed, like speed to lead, but for recruitment. And it didn't work. And I don't remember why. I gotta try it with Hatch because that would be sweet. And I do know somebody doing what you just described. They're in Colorado, and somehow they got a list. I think Colorado has all the— like, everyone's a master plumber. I think that's one of the rules there. So they got this list.

So they have the contact information. Oh, interesting.

So they've got the— and they just dumped it into Hatch. And it was like, I think they hired a couple guys off of it. It was kind of funny.

I mean, I could see it not working too with Indeed because you don't— you may not have cell phone numbers. They may not opt in for that cell phone, you know.

But yeah, yeah, I don't know how much you can control the intake forms, what I'm saying.

Right? So, but where you could control it, I've seen work because especially really large businesses that sort of have like a professional, you know, fully fledged sort of way and they're getting in, you know, 10, 20 applicants or whatever a day and they can sort of, you know, make a whole thing around it. But yeah, so I've seen recruiting, I've seen A&R, I've seen like updates, projects, right? So this is normally for home improvement, but any update that's happening where you got, you have to tell the customer like, hey, it's, you know, it's Tuesday and your product's here. And then, you know, send another communication, you know, hey, it's Friday and we've got you scheduled for an install on a Monday. And just keeping people up to date seems to be a use case I see a lot now. It's not as much about the two-way back and forth as much as just keeping customers in the loop about what's happening, because they expect that sort of constant communication.

I think they expect it. Uh, we're not using it that way, but I think they expect it. And also, from my mind, that's reducing call center burden. If we don't text them, they're going to call us, and then that's a call that we have to So a lot of what we're trying to do anytime we think about this is like, how do we create leverage for our employees and not have to hire more people? All right. So I feel like we covered some, uh, I feel like we covered some good stuff today. So how to start a rehash program, how to dive in, what does best look like, some messaging, some other use cases. Any other great lessons you've got for somebody that they want to— I'm a $5 million contractor and I'm ready to start selling more stuff.

Um, no, I mean, I think you covered most of them today, but you know, I was talking to John with, um, Gen Z Rising. Gen Z, I forget the name of his company. I'm sorry, I misspelled it or mispronounced it. But talking to him the other day, and, you know, his piece of advice— and he's an owner-operator of one of these businesses, so he knows way more than I do. But, you know, he was just like, you know, if he could start sort of the rehash optimization at $3 million instead of at $36 million, he would have— that would have been like one of the, one of the two things he would have done differently if he had to do it all over again. Because you build the muscle in the beginning, and then it becomes part of your DNA as you grow.

Oh yeah.

and your close rate continues to stay high, you don't hit those sort of walls in your growth where, you know, you're like, what's happening? Oh, I got to go optimize. Like, no, you've been optimizing since the beginning. And, and it's really, you know, that was his advice. So I think that's it, you know. It's something I'd like to pass along is like, you know, even if you don't use—

Yeah, start early.

Yeah, just start early. Like, make it a muscle. Start, make your sales manager do it, you know. You do it, then make your sales manager do it, then make your inside sales rep do it. And do it from the beginning.

And I think it, I think it keeps I still think it's wild that we didn't have one until nearly $20 million. And again, I know people in the hundreds of millions that don't have a rehash program. The guy in the hundreds of millions, like they're starting to launch one right now. The impact is going to be in the 8 figures of additional sales. Like it's a, it's a ridiculous impact. And for us, our impact from inside sales in the last 12 months has been $6 million.

That's insane.

Like it has not been a small amount of money to develop this light muscle. And I'm like, man, I wish I would have started this a decade ago. Well, I appreciate you coming on, spending a couple minutes with us, uh, sharing some lessons. If people want to hear more about it or, uh, you know, get in contact with you, how can they do it?

Um, pretty simple. Go to the website usehatchapp.com. Go check us out there. We're also in ServiceTitan's Marketplace, so you can go there and hang out and find us. And if you need to, you can also, you know, email us at any time or, you know, go to social media. We're— look for Use Hatch App and we'll, we'll show up everywhere.

Thank Thanks, Chris.

Thanks, man. Appreciate you.