$2.5M - $14+M – Mike Foraker & Jennings Heating, Cooling, & Electric in Akron, OH, Have Grown Profitably by Nurturing Great People & Trusting Them to Excel

Support for this podcast comes from Bradford White. Bradford White is a full-line manufacturer of residential and commercial water heaters and boilers.

While being manufactured and assembled in the USA by American craftspeople, Bradford White's goal is to deliver high-quality, superior products specifically built for the professional contractor.

You can always count on the performance and reliability of our built-to-be-the-best products. Visit bradfordwhite.com to learn more. ShoeBee.

ShoeBee makes it easy to take your customer service to the next level. Show your clients you care with their full line of extra-large, extra-durable products made specifically to protect their home or business. ShoeBee products were made by service professionals for service professionals. None of those cheap, thin shoe covers that tear on the job. Their booties are made tough. They have surface protection products for every floor type to make sure you don't leave behind scuffs or scrapes. And don't forget their coveralls, made with an extra-long torso for ease of motion while keeping your uniform clean all day. Let ShoeBee prevent the hassle of cleanup by preventing the mess in the first place. Put your best foot forward with ShoeBee today. Visit their website at www.shoebee.com or give them a call today and mention coupon code to receive 10% off your next order.

Welcome to The Successful Contractor, powered by CertainPath, formerly Success Group International, a show for residential contractors about residential contractors. We chronicle business journeys, share insights, and celebrate successes in this wonderful industry. I'm your host, Bob Houchin. As a reminder, all episodes of The Successful Contractor are available on YouTube as well as your podcast player of choice. And for more information on how CertainPath can put your contracting company On a Certain Path to Success, visit our website www.mycertainpath.com or give us a call at 866-299-8505. I'm excited to bring to you an interview with Mike Foraker of Jennings Heating, Plumbing, and Electric in Akron, Ohio. This is a great story about a well-established company that's evolved over its long history. But since becoming a part of the CertainPath family in 2008, Jennings has grown from around $2.5 million in sales to nearing $14 million by the end of 2022. As you'll hear, much of that growth has come by implementing the right systems. However, Mike credits their sustained success to finding and nurturing great people and then trusting and allowing those people to excel. So without further ado, here's Mike Foraker of Jennings Heating, Plumbing, and Electric in Akron, Ohio. I hope you enjoy our conversation. take away a nugget or two.

Mike, thank you so much for giving me some of your time today to talk about your business. For those who haven't had the pleasure of meeting you, could you share with everyone your name?

Sure, sure.

Company name and where you're located?

Sure. Mike Foraker. I'm the president and owner of Jennings Heating Company. That's heating, plumbing, electric company, and that's Akron, Ohio. And yeah, I've been there— the company was founded in 1931.

Yeah.

And I've been there 42 years.

Yeah, so, uh, yeah, it's, it's a big part of who you are. So it is. And, uh, we're talking business has been good, but it's been really good the last year or two. Maybe kind of share with everyone how you've been growing and, yeah, what's been going on there.

You know, um, I think, I think what's happened in the last year and a half, we've probably grown from, well, 2 years, we've grown from 35 people to 70. Yeah, 70 people. And it's been really good. I think part of that has to do with the fact that it's been We're kind of at a point where we could kind of like— the term I want to use is pay it forward.

Okay.

So for so many years, the business just did not have the financial resources to bring people in as we needed. In other words, everybody's got a strategic plan, but now you've got to finance it.

Yeah.

We were not in a position to do that for many years. So now we— that's— thank the good Lord that's happened through a lot of prayer and faith and so forth. And we're now in a position To where we can bring people in, whether, you know, whether we're bringing people in ahead of time, you know, in management position a year ahead, 2 years ahead to train and have them work into that position.

You're not just hiring to fill a seat because you got to have it filled right now.

That's right. Big difference. Big change.

And let's see, in terms of numbers, so you said what you're going to hit this year at almost $14 million?

Yeah, we're going to be probably somewhere between $13 and $14 million.

That's incredible. And last year was what?

It was just Last year was 10, 10.5.

So nice growth numbers and margins are where they need to be.

Much better margins.

That's right. That's why we're talking about it.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So as people that have listened or watched know, I love learning people's individual stories, how they got to where they are. We were talking before we officially started rolling. Kind of share with everyone how you started with Jennings and your background and how it grew from there.

Okay, so actually I I went to church with the Jennings family, with Fred Jennings. And so I graduated with a degree in business and Fred was looking to do that same thing, bring on more management and so forth. So he asked if I wanted to come to work there. And well, at first I thought I'd want to go to work at a big corporation and all that stuff.

Sure.

I thought about it and I thought, you know, it's kind of like an interesting, a great opportunity. And when I started there, we, the first year I was there, we did $900,000. So, and to give you an idea, the first— and so I started out, he hired me in this position, but I had to do something else. I have many hats. So I sold, and the first air conditioner I sold was $950 for the air conditioning system. That's dating myself.

Yeah.

Right?

Yeah, very good.

So from there, you acquired the business. When did that officially happen?

That happened in 2008.

Oh, really?

Yeah. Well, I say that it start— we started that. It was a number of years to make that, make that happen. So, and Fred probably left about 2011 was when he stopped coming in.

But a lot's obviously happened between when you started in 2008, so let's cover some of that. You said originally it was like, uh, you were doing like coal or something like that, right? And then, okay, yeah, then you got into new construction. I want to— I'd like to hear you cover all that.

So, so the business started as a coal company in 1931. In fact, we've got photos of— here's a, here's a rail siding and big piles of coal.

Yeah.

And you You know, a little sign, Jennings Heating, or Jennings Coal Company back then.

Right.

So we transitioned into a heating company right after the war.

Okay.

Gas became popular. And back then they put conversion burners into those big old round coal furnaces.

Sure.

So we installed those. And then in about the early '60s, we started converting those to the much more efficient gas furnaces. I actually, in the late '70s, I actually took out a lot of coal converted, conversion burner gas units, but also I took out 7 coal units that were still burning coal. Is that right?

Isn't that something?

Yeah, in the late '70s.

Yeah.

And then we started doing air conditioning as most people started adding that in the '70s.

Sure.

A lot of new construction. We did 18,000 That's incredible. Over 20 years in the '70s and '80s. And we had revenue growth, but it was just a tough business.

Sure.

I mean, you know, I would take an armload of prints home every night, figure those, and then you gotta try and collect and so on and so forth.

Oh yeah.

It was just something that we— and then we decided in the early 2000s to get out of that.

Okay.

And that was a big step 'cause that was a major part of the business. But that's kind of one of those faith steps you take. And we did that, got out of that. And, you know, it's been ever since, it's just been moving up.

So when you converted residential, you know, service and replacement, you weren't a member yet 'cause you didn't join till 2008.

That's right.

So what kind of a blueprint are you just, how did you learn? It's a different business, right?

Okay. Well, back then we would go to, A lot of your suppliers would have industry events.

Sure.

Of course, it was geared to what they were— the product they were selling and so forth. But we got a little bit of that. But, you know, I will have to say, I'm a reader. I love to read. I've got a wall of books. And I could never execute the way I wanted to.

Sure.

Good to Better, Best to Great, you know, Built to Last, whatever. You can read all these books. I could never nail that down. And frankly, not many people want to read today, so I couldn't— I had a hard time getting my team to read.

Sure.

To read it. But it seemed like when we joined SGI, that changed. All of a sudden, people looked forward to learning. They looked forward to growing. And so, you know, that was just a big change for us.

Yeah.

They were on board. I didn't feel like I was pushing just myself. That's great.

What was this— why the decision to join in 2000? I mean, that was a tumultuous time in general with the economy being what it is.

It was. I think it was a couple of things. I felt, I knew that there was a better way. I knew that there had to be. I mean, I'd go to these functions and I'd hear, you know, 9 out of 10 guys say, yeah, we can't, lucky if you make 2% or 3%. Then there'd be that one guy standing there and said, yeah, I made 12% or 15%.

I was like, what did you do?

Yeah. Yeah, so that was it. It was just something had to be, you know, life's too good, too short to fight that. Sure, sure.

So you were what, a couple million bucks then at that time?

We were probably about $2.5 to $3 million when we joined.

And you were all— you had converted fully over at that point?

Just about, just about. We had just— yeah, we were maybe had 1 or 2 builders left, but, you know, basically it was just add-on replacement.

Yeah, interesting. Thinking back to that, I know it's been some time, what were some of the core changes you— or things you needed to tweak? You know, because back then there was no— I don't think you went to EP yet. I think you went to Right. And there was a few days early we called Executive Perspective, which was the basics, and then we'd have the 2 or 3 days of Expo afterwards.

Right.

And it was a lot.

You know, I think part of it is we all have legacy mindsets. I came out of, again, working with this company and growing, but also being in new construction. The legacy mindset is, you know, you can only— hey, people can only afford so much. You know, you can't push— you know, you can't— well, you can, and people do, and they will, and they'll buy They'll pay for value. So the thing to change when we were coming out of that new construction thing was you don't have to be the low guy. And we're not, but we're better. So anyway, it was that, and that's been evolving. That was huge. The other is knowing our numbers, you know, KPIs. You know, that's fantastic. You just can't, unless you know your KPIs, you don't know where you're at.

Right.

So that was really great for us too.

That's great.

Yeah.

As you're growing like this, what— I mean, you have— I was reading your website and bios, and you've had managers with you a long time.

Long time.

So what were those guys? Were they techs at one point and have then graduated up? Or you go from 2 to— you know, how did you build it, the infrastructure, those middle levels?

They were techs, and some of the people came from outside the industry. And frankly, one particular person was a phone— they took questions on the phone and worked for a medical company. That person runs my service department now and does a great job.

Is that right?

He's learned it. Yeah, he's learned that. So it's given us a vehicle to take people, you know, it's that thing of hire for attitude. It's given us the ability to hire for attitude, and now we have a vehicle to train for excellence.

That's incredible. Yeah, so that person with no technical background in service with the HVAC side or plumbing, or what, which one is it?

HVAC. HVAC.

So what is the training for you? Because we mentioned, you had mentioned earlier, you're in a position where you can hire someone and let them learn for a year or so. So what is it for a guy like that? How, what did you do to help him understand the industry and to be able to help technicians, right? And them not trying to talk over his head.

Yeah, what, well, and that's an interesting So we were able to position him next to my general manager, Mike Catalan, who does an excellent job for us. So Mike kind of took him under his wing. They were seated near each other, so Mike had kind of said, hey, you know, this is— now you want to say this, you want to do that, the question they're asking is this. So he would coach him. That took a— frankly, that position took a year or 2, probably 2 or 3. There's just so much to service.

Yeah.

And then the technicians, I think at first At first, it's like, you know, that guy didn't know anything about service. You know what though? He gained their respect because they knew he had the business and their best interests at heart. And when they know you care like that, then you've won that battle. It makes a big difference. And now the guy knows he's technically— he's great. I mean, he's got it, but he's gotten a lot of help from them. He's not afraid to ask.

If you don't mind this, and I know it's a big team, people are always intrigued by what's your management team look like. So what are the leaders in your business? Kind of break down who's in charge of what department, if you don't mind.

Yeah, yeah. So I've got Mike Catalano as my general manager. Mike's been with me, I'm gonna say probably 30, probably tell me more than that, probably 35 years. And he started as a technician. And I hope he doesn't mind me sharing this. When we went to hire Mike, He could not— he didn't want to climb a ladder. He just— so if you can imagine a technician that won't climb a ladder. And the owner said, you know, why would you hire a guy? I said, because he's— this will sell— he was an Eagle Scout.

Oh yeah, well sure.

So, you know, you look for— again, you look for attitude. You look for people that you can train and people that have the right culture.

Yeah.

So that was my general manager. My service manager is Don Truex. Does just a fantastic job. I mentioned him earlier. We have Chris. Chris does our— she's the head of our CSR department.

Okay.

Melissa is the head of our sales management department. And we've got Andy Agerwald. He started as a truck driver and now he's running the biggest department in the company. That's the install department. Oh, okay. Very good. So he started on— I remember seeing him in a truck. I mean, he, he was just— he but always eager to learn and move ahead and advance. George, he runs our electrical department.

Okay.

And he started, he'd worked in the oil fields and he knew a little bit about electric and a little bit of that. He actually started at HVAC and we rapidly moved him into under another electrician. And then he took that, he took that thing and he ran. He went from 1 employee to 5, grew that department from $2 million, I'm sorry, from $0 to $2 million in like, 5 years.

Wow, yeah, that's great.

Yeah, so that's good. And now we have Matt in our plumbing department, so, um, and we're just starting there, but now we have a blueprint, you know. We've done it, we've done it on the electrical side and so forth.

What's his background? People are always like, I want to start a new division, but how do I do it?

He's a, he was a, he's a master plumber. Guy's a good plumber. Yeah, he's going to be getting his license, and, uh, but again, he's just the right kind of guy for our culture.

How did you find him?

You know, we were always looking. And I don't know if he saw an ad on Indeed or whatever, but he responded. Okay. As many, as many people do. But, you know, not everybody, a lot of people just don't have that, that culture, that attitude. Right. And that belief. So we knew right away, you know, you can get a pretty good idea right away if somebody's that person, you know.

Yeah.

And we, and we did. So.

And you also have art that we were talking about.

Yeah. So it was interesting. I'm at a point in my life where I've got this great team, but I'm trying to— I want to transition over some years. And I, you know, there's a lot of private equity out there. I mean, let's face it, you know, a lot of us get these calls, and I certainly have. But I wanted to keep it in the business. And we do consider ourselves a family.

Yeah.

And so I was having a meeting one day. I called a guy in that was kind of a buyout specialist and just to discuss some things with him, how I would do this. where I would go, what I would look for, and I invited my banker who— his name is Art Kline, and Art, I've known him for many years. He is my commercial banker. Very sharp guy, and I've known Art and communicate with him every day. He and I send Bible verses back and forth. For 13 years we've done that.

Yeah.

So that's my banker. So anyway, after that meeting he called me about a week later, and says, hey, I'd be interested in talking to you about it. about this.

Yeah.

And so we talked, and I thought— I was hoping that would happen, actually. I really did. I'd been praying for the right person for many years to come alongside and want to take this and be that same— keep that same culture that we have there.

Yeah.

So it was really good. The determination we gave to him was internal revision manager. I read that in a book. That allows somebody to come into your business And they can go anywhere, look at anything, and just kind of see how it's all working.

Sure.

And he has— I, I— he has a very caring and an intentional personality.

Yeah.

I think sometimes I think that, you know, you look back and say, I wish I'd have done that. And I think I could have done that, but we, we wear too many hats. Oh yeah, you know, there's a lot of things. There's a lot of things. So, you know, it's that whole thing of, of what got us here isn't necessarily going to get us there. So, so So he can do that. And it was interesting. He said, you know, he said, I don't know if I can do this. He said, I don't know anything about heating and cooling. And I said, that's exactly why I want you. I got all kinds of people that know heating and cooling.

Sure.

We want somebody that can take us to that next level. Yeah.

So that's fascinating.

Yeah.

So he's been in that role for what, a year?

It's been over a year.

Over a year.

And just really good. Doing touch bases with the employees.

Yeah, I was gonna ask. So people are gonna know, well, that's interesting to have that outside in, Yeah. What is like, what is his day-to-day? Is it meeting with management?

Well, it's all of the above. It's meeting with management, and he works— at first it was, it's meeting with management, showing them how to do touch bases with their people. Then he— I would notice they'd be in their room and the door would be shut, and he would be there, and the manager would be there, and the person was there, and Art would just listen. Now Art doesn't need to be in the room. They've learned how to do the touch bases. Right, but we've shown each of the managers how to do that. So, so yeah, it's really, it's really fun. And it's fun to watch from my perspective. I get to walk by and say, oh, they're doing it again.

That's great. So a lot of it's been people management and development with those one-on-ones are so important.

It is.

With this generation especially.

That is probably the most important. And, you know, I think the young people today, we've been extremely fortunate to get really excellent young people, but I think it is because they want to feel connected.

Yeah.

And the only way they're going to feel— you can't treat them like it was 40 years ago. Here's a paycheck, you know.

Yeah.

That doesn't work. They've got to feel a part of it.

So yeah, that's great that you recognize that as well. There's a lot of people that go, we've been doing it this way for so long, it's been so good.

You know, what's interesting is I remember way back when you drive into the parking lot, and some people might be able to relate to this, you drive into the parking lot, it's like, oh boy, somebody's car is here. I'm gonna have to go talk to that. Boy, they're a downer. Well, you know what? We got rid of all those negative influences. That's amazing. I can say now, I drive in and I'm happy to see everybody that we've got a team that's working and pulling together. That's fantastic. And we don't put up with the dissenters or whatever. You know, not that you can't, you can have your own point of view, but—

Sure.

But, you know—

Positive people.

Positive people, gotta be.

Who manages recruiting and hiring and all that?

That's actually, okay, that's actually come into— under my general manager. He's done more and more of that. He's done that for a number of years, but it's gotten so large now that we are now in the process of hiring an HR person to do that as well.

Okay, sure.

And there's other HR issues that you want to make sure you stay on top of. We're of the size that now it's— that's a full-time position. Protection. Yeah. And that, looking back, that's one of those things, boy, that's going to be more money. It's like, don't want to spend the money. Well, again, we're in a position. If we don't spend the money, we're not going to move up. You've got to continue to do that.

So what are you doing to find— I mean, that's— you go walk the halls of this expo, everyone's going to be talking about where are you finding people.

You're growing so aggressively.

Where are they coming from? Is it schools?

Are you going to high schools? You know, it's actually trade schools. I think that we've got a pretty good reputation in the community. People know, you know, we give 100% satisfaction guarantee. They know that we're kind of, you know, we're treating people right. We just, we just— our people do it the right way. They treat people the way that you would want your grandmother to be treated. And, you know, when you do that, people see that around and they say, you know, I like that company. So hey, why don't you go talk to Jennings, you know, because a lot of people are unhappy where they're at.

Sure.

And but I will say a lot of these people don't have an HVAC background. We train them. So again, the attitude. Yeah, but, um, you know, and we've hired so many people, I'm working hard to remember their names. If I can't remember their name, I call them Champ.

There you go.

I understand.

Yeah, yeah. So of the people you hire, is it a good mix of green versus experienced, or do you not hire a lot of experienced guys?

No, no, you know what, we have enough experienced guys. Mostly we hire green guys. Every once in a while we'll hire— but when you hire experience, you They bring other things.

Sure, sure.

And so we like training them up, doing it our way. Now, and now we've got a guy that goes around and checks jobs afterwards. Every job he checks to make sure it was done our way. He takes a picture, he videos it, and they talk about it at the Friday meetings. They talk about, hey, we need to do it this way. We all have to be on the same page. This is how we do this particular item.

You're talking about installs or all?

Installs.

What's that position? Is he just an install coordinator or whether—

He's quality control, and Steve is the only guy in that business that's been there longer than me.

Is that right?

Yeah, yeah. So it's a good job for him. He's seen it all, done it all, and can do it all.

Have you noticed callbacks have gone down?

They have gone down. It's been excellent. Yeah, so, and another thing about training in install is we took One of our really key installers, I mean, this, this guy is sharp and he's really good. His name is Nick, and Nick now will work with the new guys, the new teams. Yeah, he'll go in and check them. If he has to spend a day with them, he will. Half a day, an hour here and there, you know, he'll kind of move around with them to bring them up so that everybody's doing it the same way.

Interesting. So it's all technical, him? That's his—

All technical.

Okay, so let's say, let's say I, I I'm a green technician, right?

Okay.

And you've got now 3 trades.

Yeah.

So how do you know, oh, he might be better in HVAC, or he might be better in plumbing, or is it just where there's a need?

Well, you know what, we might try to steer a little bit based on need. Also, you know, based on whether guys can physically handle, you know, install is a little bit tougher.

Sure.

So yeah, we kind of look at that, but Also, if a guy looks like he might want to be a little more technical, we probably put him in service. So, so yeah, and we do a personality, a DISC profile on every employee, every in-haul, every install, new employee. So we do that and it's really been helpful.

Sure, you know how to communicate with those people. You know why they talk a certain way.

That's right. And the guys that are really good communicators and technical, that's who you want in service.

Support for this podcast comes from Navac. As a technician in today's technology-driven landscape, you know how frustrating it can be when the tools you carry fall short and can't live up to the demands of modern-day HVAC equipment. Navac is keenly aware of this and uses that sentiment as the driving force for our innovation and standards for contractor tools. With over 25 years of design, research, and manufacturing for the HVAC industry, Navac is proud to introduce the Break Free Powered Tubing Expander. Following in the footsteps of its predecessor, the Break Free Power Flaring Tool, we continue to empower contractors to automate tubing processes that will save time, energy, and ultimately their bottom line. Visit navacglobal.com to learn more.

On on the HVAC side, on sales, how do you handle sales? Do you tech technician sales or do you have comfort advisors or what?

How are you broken down? We, we actually do both. We've got 3 comfort advisors, and they're all within the last year, they're all new.

Okay.

And they're all doing fantastic. Had a lot of training done with them, and they're doing very well. Their close ratios are coming up, their margins are better than we've seen in the past from other comfort advisors. We have 2, and actually we have a 3rd now, so I'm going to say 3 Technicians that we call them senior techs. We don't like to call them selling techs. They're senior techs. And these guys can— they have the ability to actually sell on the site. They'll do a load calculation. They're capable of checking static pressure. They do all that stuff. So they do what a comfort advisor would do, but their communication skills are off the charts. Sure. Have those guys been with you for a long time or not so much as really great communication You know what, 2 of them have been with us for probably 10 years, one of them about 5.

Okay.

But they all— and it's funny, they all have different personalities.

Oh, is that right?

Oh yeah. But what they do is they connect with the customer.

Yeah.

And again, with the DiSC, we not only do DiSC analysis for them, we do DiSC training. So they know when they discuss with the customer, hey, I'm talking to an I, I better, you know, you gotta—

Get all the numbers out.

That's right.

Yeah, right.

So That's fascinating.

Yeah, so that's been really good too. That's fascinating.

Just to go back on the new employee stuff, so let's say you hire me, I start, say HVAC, okay, so what's my experience like? Am I riding along for a certain period and then in-class classroom experience or education? What's the breakdown?

You're gonna do all of those things. We're actually going to do You'll do ride-alongs, and we'll take you—

it could be—

used to be a year. We're trying to compress that. We're starting to do a lot more, you know, we'll send them away for a week or 2.

Okay.

For trainings, and we'll do that based on their particular areas and particular needs. They'll do ride-alongs. We do in-house training. We do video training. And now we've got the— trying to think— the headset.

Oh yeah, I know what you're talking about. Yeah, that's great.

Yeah, virtual reality, but they, you know, it's all geared toward— I mean, I walk by and they're going like this, like they're working on the machine.

Isn't that something?

Yeah, amazing.

So within a year, you typically can— they can have— they're up and going?

Yep. Oh yeah. The other thing that's been very helpful is they communicate so well with one another. If they're stuck on a job, they can call Don, and Don needs help, he'll say, hey, call Andy up, and they FaceTime or whatever. Sure.

So who handles training? Is that each manager responsible for that?

No, that's a good question. So we actually have moved one particular person. His name is Mike Floer. He is our trainer. So he dispatches. He's not a full-time dispatcher. He dispatches, works a lot on commercial. We do some commercial. He does commercial dispatching, but he's very knowledgeable and he's got a good way of training. And so, yeah. He does a great job for that. So we've got a guy that he does that several hours a week, and that's his position.

That's fascinating.

Yeah, and he's taking that on big time.

For the service technicians, I mean, at least my— maybe I'm wrong, you tell me if I'm wrong— they all, the ones that are good, I want to sell, I want to sell. So you got the 3 that sell. Yeah. How did you know they were ready to be— to start selling equipment? What did they have to prove to you? Was it flipping a certain number of leads or selling IQ? And you're like, okay, I think you can sell it.

Well, first of all, first of all, the first thing I do is no fear. They can't be afraid of talking to people, you know. And once that's done, if they say, hey, I'm interested in this, what we want to do is give them the technical ability, load calculation, give them what they need before they ever start this. We also have a selling system. That makes it— I mean, it's just, it's right on. It's actually through a program that we use.

Okay.

It just takes them right through and they get 4 options, you know. So once they do the load calculation, discuss things with a customer and find out, you know, what their needs are, wants, needs, and desires or whatever, they'll actually then be able to print this out. We've got printers in the truck.

Oh, cool.

Or they can email it right then and there and they email it to the customer, it automatically Comes to me and the sales manager. So, uh, yeah, it's interesting, very streamlined.

Yeah, well, it's got to be.

That's why you guys are going through the process. That's right.

So who's, um, we talk, you talk about KPIs and they are so important. I think for a lot of people that are new to a, you know, CertainPath, SGI, and or any kind of system, they're like, oh man, this, this is what I needed to know, what numbers I need to hit.

Yes.

Who's watching those? Is every manager at their core, in addition to take care of the people, Watching every ticket, you know, every replacement, you know.

It's interesting. So every manager gets emailed the KPIs every day.

Perfect.

So, so, and they know that come— we have a month— a weekly meeting, it's on Wednesdays. At Wednesday's meeting, we're going to talk about the KPIs.

Yes.

Let's see where you're at.

Yeah.

And what we need to get there, and if you're there, what we can do better, and A lot of times what's interesting is we also can find out, hey, if somebody's behind, maybe install's behind, service can lend a hand. They can actually help. We got a few service techs that can help install.

Sure.

We might do that. So that's good too.

That's interesting.

Yeah.

So you have those Wednesday meetings with the management team. What I wanted to ask, how else, how much else are you guys communicating? Do you have huddles or anything, or is it just the Wednesday meeting?

I like the idea of huddles, but it just seems It seemed like it was very difficult to get that to happen. I think that they happen, but not on a daily basis like probably they should.

There's a lot of inorganic— there's just organic conversations happening.

Yep, that's right.

So on Wednesday you talk KPIs. What else do you talk?

Okay, so we talk KPIs, we talk strategy, we talk marketing, we talk what's working, we talk the marketplace. What are we seeing out there? And, and we'll even talk a little bit about where the economy— what's happening, what are people feeling, you know, people's— the consumer, how do they feel, right? So, and we talk about any new programs we have coming up, talk about, uh, vendor issues.

Yeah.

Um, so yeah, we just— and anything's on the table. So, and at the end of the meeting, is there anything else anybody wants to talk about? Yeah, so that's great.

Yeah, very good. You said marketing, that's a big thing. I know you've probably been Tons of business, right? I feel like everyone's busy, but you still got to market.

That's correct.

What's effective for you? What's your brand in the marketplace? Like, what do you guys do on that?

You know, I'm finding that— and by the way, I've got a degree in marketing. Yeah. And that degree was like, you know, it was back when everything was print back then, right? So I know my limitations. We put that in the hands of the professionals, but We still do a lot. I've got a daughter that works— she's got a degree actually in social media. So Facebook and that, that's a big help. We have some outside firms that help us in— actually, somebody kind of pulls this all together. It's web design, and we talk about where we want— Stochastic is part of this too.

Oh yeah.

So we talk about what our programs are, We're gonna mail these out. These are the zip codes, but these are the areas we're gonna spend web dollars, internet dollars, you know, pay-per-click and so forth. So, you know, we do a lot of that. But, you know, I think one of the reasons, one of the things that's helped us is our branding has been so strong. Again, 91 years. But also we're still doing some TV and radio.

You are?

Yeah. And I'm still, that's the one part of it I'm gonna keep.

You still like doing that?

Yeah, yeah. Sure, well, it's fun. I'm keeping that. So I think you still have to focus on branding. Maybe not as heavy as some of these other things, but you gotta have a pretty good presence in the marketplace so people can see and, huh, the name, you know.

What kind of TV do you do? Is it just like on news channels? You're running during news?

We do news channels, but a lot of it this year has— we've gone to the streaming stations.

Oh, okay.

And that's been— that's actually been very good for us.

Is that right? That's interesting.

So we're doing quite a bit of that.

And it's just branding? It's just you? Are you on the commercial or are you talking about what, 91 years?

Sometimes it's me. Sometimes I'm not sure which commercial they're gonna run even, you know what I mean? So we keep it rolling, but yeah, it'll be me. But a lot of times it's our employees. Here they are, a technician on the job working on the furnace, installing or servicing generators, whatever. So yeah.

Is radio something you said?

We do. We do the Cleveland sports stations. So we do the baseball, we do football, basketball. So we'll do those too. And that's been good for us.

And now it's all branding?

It's all branding.

No tune-ups? You're not promoting tune-ups?

Nope.

Interesting.

It's all branding. The tune-ups we do, the more granular stuff, I guess, or tune-ups, whatever, that's done, that's actually done through the The internet, okay, pay-per-click.

Oh yeah, that, yeah, yeah, yeah. So with Stochastic, they also do this too.

Oh yeah, yeah, absolutely, right? Yeah. And oh go ahead. Yeah. And so we've chosen the the zip codes that we want to be in and hit it real hard. And that's been very that's been good for us too.

That's neat.

Yeah.

Um, I always feel like I got to marry with we talk marketing in the call center because of outbound. You guys do a lot of outbound calling?

We we do. And actually, we've Done more of that this year.

Okay.

And it has paid off tremendously. Has it really? Yeah.

Is it just on tune-ups or follow-up on unsold jobs?

It's tune-ups. Actually, the management team does more of the follow-ups on unsold jobs. Oh, okay. Yeah. But, you know, they actually will call out to, like, for instance, maintenance agreements that we have. We have— we're at about 3,600, 3,700 maintenance agreements.

Wow.

A lot of times it's hard to get a hold of those people, so that's their position. They have to call and make that contact.

Yeah.

And that has kind of flattened out our ups and downs in service anyway.

Oh yeah.

Tremendously. I mean, before we always thought it could help, but I mean, it has really taken the load.

The seasonality has died off.

Yes, it has.

How about now that you've got these, you know, you've got electrical and plumbing And you've got this, what, 3,700 club members?

Yes.

Have you— is it one club for all 3 trades now, or how?

We're working on that.

You're working on that?

Yeah, that's probably going to be an option for us.

Okay.

That we're looking at doing that as an option.

Okay.

So yeah.

Oh, go ahead.

Yeah, so we've started to do that with the electrical.

Yeah.

And we'll probably do the same thing with plumbing, and then at some point in time we'll put them all together.

When you started that electrical Was it just changing how you answer the phones and say, hey, we offer electrical now? Or how did you utilize that customer base without getting out of control, right? I mean, 3,700, that's a lot.

It is. And, you know, that's another thing about when you have a management team, you kind of tend to balance each other. I'm like, you know, we got to start telling people. And it's like my team's saying, well, wait a minute, we got to get all these pieces in place first. It's like, you guys are too slow in there. You guys are too fast. You know what I mean? So it's a balance. And it's really a dance you do with your management team, and it's worked out pretty well.

But that was it, just slowly announcing?

Slowly.

We're going to roll it out as we're capable, as we know our capabilities exist.

Okay, very good, very good. Just kind of wrapping up, I mean, what do you see for Jennings in the next 5— how about you, next 5 or 10 years? What do you, you know?

Okay, you know, I'm thinking maybe Oh, another 3, maybe 3 to 4 years, I'll be, I'll be done. I've got a farm.

Yeah.

And I live there, my wife and I, and we have got a daughter and her husband and grandkids live there. And man, we're just loving it down there. So that's what, that's what I'm looking forward to.

Yeah.

Maybe being involved in some community events and stuff like that. But as far as Jenning Seating, you know, I'm realizing, you know, the sky's the limit as long as you're willing to put the time in, as long as you've got the I would say there's a reason so many of these private equities and stuff want these businesses. This is a gold mine because, you know, you can take a product and you can have it made in Mexico or China or whatever, but when you got— when it comes to service, it's done here. You can't offshore that.

Right.

And I just see these technicians, these guys that can do this, they just work with their hands and And their minds, these guys are, they're just, they're the future. And people realize these are the technology workers of the future because they're tech— whether it's a furnace, whether it's a commercial piece of equipment, whether it's something that has to do with boilers and beyond, you know, these guys can, they've got it all right there at their fingertips. They can get the answers.

That's why they're getting paid what they are now and why prices are what they are.

They have to be. Yep.

Looking back over your many years of running a successful business, what are some things you— if I'm a newer member or someone that's only been doing it for 5 years and I'm struggling, what are some things maybe you wish you would have done differently or done sooner that would benefit me from listening or watching this?

Yeah, I think probably the things that hold us in place, I would probably want to push through those a little quicker. And not to— I mean, I'll give myself credit for making the moves I did, but man, if I'd have done it just a little bit quicker, then I could have been where I'm at 10 years ago, and who knows where it would be.

Yeah, that's true. That's true.

So anyway, I would just say that, you know, don't be afraid. You know, get all the information you need and, you know, move forward. And in my case, pray about it and look for direction and move.

How about all the scaling up you've done? You've had— you've raised the right people up.

Yeah.

What's the secret to knowing who's capable to be a manager versus I really need to go outside of my company to find that talent to manage that part of my—

You know, I think that our people are capable of much more than we give them credit for usually. And I think that for me, when I moved from I mean, frankly, I wore all these different hats and you start to give them away. But if you're wise in who you give them to and it's a success, then you get a little more confidence in yourself to give another hat and then another hat and then another hat. And so I think what it is, is you need to start that process. If you can't give something to other people on your team, maybe you have to look— it's either you or it's your team.

Yeah.

So I think that a Looking back on it, I was glad to have found that.

Yeah.

That would have been nice to have found a little earlier. Sure, sure. Yeah.

And did you nurture them? I guess the same way you talked about your general manager nurturing employee, you got to sit with them and show them the ropes and give them— and then finally after a while you go, okay, now it's you.

We did, and we nurtured them, but we've— it's been sped up because we trust them. When you trust them, you can— hey, I'm gonna have to 3 or 4 years to get this person to— you know, sometimes it's like, you know, we think, we all think we do this job, it's almost impossible for anybody else to do.

Yeah.

And it's not. You can, hey, you can train people up to do this.

Yeah.

And you can do it quicker than you may think if you've got the right people.

Right people. And if you know what numbers you need to hit.

Yep.

The KPIs we talked about.

Yeah. And, you know, another thing with this transition that I talk about, I felt like this would be an easier— if somebody has the ability to run something and grow this thing, they don't need to know this industry if they know and they have a group they can tie into that can work with them. Here's a key, here are the KPIs, here's what you're looking for, here's what you got to do, here's where we're going next. And the big thing is to come to these meetings and, and rub shoulders with people that have done it. Yeah, yeah. And, and it gives you a lot more confidence.

And you've gone to the Eagles events too, right?

Oh yeah.

That's neat where it's a little smaller, but you guys have more similar challenges at the larger organizations.

That's correct. And that was very good too.

Yeah.

So it's nice. And, you know, we're in the platoons, you know, the focus groups, and those are great.

Yeah.

You know, and we do the same thing. We share numbers as far as our KPIs, and we encourage each other and also try to determine, hey, what is it that this company might need to help them, and then we might put them in touch with our people, or maybe I've got somebody on my side that needs to learn a little more about what this company's doing. So to do that is just great.

That's neat. So looking back, how many years has this been?

42 years. 42 years.

What does it feel like? I mean, thinking back where you started, you know, to where you are now, what's that— what pops in your mind? I mean, it's pretty remarkable.

How time flies. Yeah. You know, and it does, it goes fast. But I think of all the people, all the places, and the customers, and so on and so forth. It's really, it's been a great ride.

Yeah.

Not over yet.

Yeah, that's right. That's right. That's right. Well, Mike, thank you so much for all your time today. This was really enjoyable.

Good. Good. Thank you. Enjoyed it.

That's Mike Foraker of Jennings Heating, Plumbing, and Electric in Akron, Ohio. I hope you've enjoyed today's show. If so, please like and subscribe on YouTube. If you're on your favorite podcast player, please leave us a 5-star review. The 2 seconds you take to leave that review will help other success-minded contractors like you find us and hopefully get a little bit better, which elevates our entire industry. And please join me for future episodes. This has been The Successful Contractor powered by CertainPath.

Support for this podcast comes from PulseM. PulseM is the number one review generation platform built for home services. The majority of CertainPath members use PulseM for Google reviews, customer communication through text messaging, and much more. To quote Bubba Thurman of Baker Brothers, I can't say enough good things about PulseM. They match our core values and they do an unbelievable job. For more information, please visit pulsem.me. And Customer Lobby. Customer Lobby is a new member of the CertainPath Partner Network. Did you know it costs 5 times more to get a new customer than it does to retain an existing one? Customer Lobby gets you more repeat business by automatically sending postcards and emails to your customers at exactly the right time. Customer Lobby is the best way for CertainPath contractors to increase revenue and make sure their customers are coming back again and again. To quote Jeff Katz from Clinton Electric, Customer Lobby expanded our business to people that we never would have gotten revenue from. For more information, please visit customerlobby.com. The Successful Contractor Podcast is part of the CertainPath family. CertainPath builds successful home service businesses and has for 23 years. We do it by providing contractors with a proven path to success, professional coaching, software solutions, and a member community of over 1,000 contractors just like you. Doubling your sales with a 20% net profit and an inspiring company culture is all possible. Let us show you the way. With CertainPath, success is made certain. Visit www.mycertainpath.com for more information.