#238 Are You Making This BIG Marketing Mistake?

My big trend from 2025, leads are more challenging for everybody.

When people are hurting or looking for answers, they can get too cute on the creative side as well. Stay true to what works. Answer those 3 questions I touched on 3 months ago. Why you? Why now? How can I afford you?

A lot of these companies that are spending really big on brand are losing because they aren't dialed on what you just said.

The ones that are feeling it the least are the ones that have that branded game down pat. People are looking for you, not a plumber.

Any pro tips for the operators out there navigating '25?

Pro tips.

So Welcome back to Owned and Operated. I'm your host, John Wilson. I run a $30 million home service company up near Cleveland, Ohio, and the rest of my time is spent running a podcast teaching other people how to build their home service business. Today on the show, I have Tony from Wanamaker. Welcome back to the show.

Appreciate it. Appreciate it. Thanks for having us back.

Yeah, well, it didn't do terribly. So we're like, we gotta bring him back.

I think we were— I like to introduce myself as the, the guy who was the OG of the new studio.

You were, you were.

So that's on my calling card. That's how I'm known on the streets. So happy to be back.

If you're an HVAC tech, plumber, or electrician, you know that time is money and Supply House gets it. With over 280,000 products from 500 trusted brands, they make it easy to get what you need fast. Their Trademaster program gives you exclusive perks like better pricing, free shipping, and priority support. Right now you can get 5% off your first order at supplyhouse.com with code SH5. Supply House, real people, real service. It was a— it was an awesome episode, and I don't remember what number it is. I think we can link it in show notes, but you, you did have a nugget in there that I quote to myself Which one was that? Which is, I think the 1% of your market is looking for your service. Like, I—

1% is in the market and everyone—

I cannot tell you how many times I've quoted that in the past 4 months.

It's not the most scientific approach, but it rings true. I mean, if you break down the numbers, I mean, it's pretty, pretty spot on. So it's a good way to think about marketing, business in general. So yeah, 100%.

Yeah, no, that was awesome. Well, today we're talking about 2025, state of the lead, state of media buying.

Yep.

Kind of a funky year for most of the industry. I'm sure you have, you know, folks around the country working with you, but you know what, what we've seen on the contractor side is it's August and leads are starting to slow up a little bit. And in some places they never really got that good.

Yeah.

You know, summer was really cool, like in California, like summer never came. So, you know, a lot of the industry's really hurting for leads. I see it in Facebook groups, I see it in our communities and—

Yep.

So yeah, we're, we're here to talk about, here to talk about 2025.

It's a weird, weird year all around. I mean, yeah, you know, I think we were kind of in the forefront warning that something was going to happen. I mean, home service in general. I mean, you go through the pandemic, I mean, everyone had banner years.

We pulled up 5 years of demand. Yep. Yeah. So, and companies got huge.

Got huge. You're riding that wave. And it didn't just end with the pandemic. It kind of was a slow teeter off. And then you've You couple that with, you know, some things out of our control like weather that has a huge effect on the HVAC side. And then also just with everything going on in the digital landscape, how that's shifting.

Yeah.

Consumption of media in general. And then you got a little bit of a perfect storm. So if you're doing the same thing you were doing 5 years ago and everything's pulling back and things are changing and you're not staying up with it, it's a funky year. And on the media side, it's, it's an odd year. So we were out in the beginning of the year saying, hey, it's not a political year. I mean, we're in the Northeast, we're—

Yes.

Purple states or whatever.

So that means pricing's down or like, what should that tell me?

Yeah. I mean, just about every media outlet out there that you can advertise on, it's pretty much a fixed inventory, give or take. I mean, depending on TV, definitely. So when you don't have politicians dropping millions in issue packs, political parties dropping millions, pressure goes down on inventory, rates go down, cost of entry is lower. So, um, it was a huge opportunity at the beginning of the year. If you're— if you didn't take advantage of it, I'm sorry, um, but there's still time. Um, but yeah, no, it's, it's definitely— I think just talking to people, I would say about middle of the year we got a wave of people, uh, business owners reaching out to us, kind of raising their hand like, I need help. But there's still— maybe you could speak a little bit too, I don't know. Yeah, yeah. But, um, there's still People know they need help, but there's like a weird pullback. Like they don't want to change things, hoping that it's going to go back to like 2021, 2022 levels magically. So it's been a weird dynamic, but our clients have been pretty stable on the campaigns and it's just been really just cost shifting budget around, capitalizing on the decreased inventory demand on the TV side. And really just a continuation of what we, what we talked about 3 months ago, 4 months ago. I don't know how long it was, but yeah, you know, LSA continues to go up a little bit on the cost per click side. PPC is still being affected. ChatGPT is continuing to grow share on the digital side. Again, we are huge proponents. We're a full-service agency. We do some digital advertising. We specialize in traditional, but shifting the digital portfolio around and then complementing it with, with scale. Is still kind of what we, what we preach. And when you have a challenging year, weirdly enough, sucks for the business owner, but we thrive when things aren't good. Like we weren't picking up clients left and right when people were breaking records during the pandemic. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Little—

yeah, people are looking for a change.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, when leads aren't working out, they're trying to figure out what levers to pull.

Exactly.

That makes sense.

I mean, we talked about a little bit last time, just taking it back to basics. That ZMOT study we touched on.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, maybe remind us of that.

Yeah, ZMOT study. So I'm gonna talk about a little bit later with with your crew. It stands for Zero Moment of Truth. So to take a step back, so Procter and Gamble came out with a study in 2005, and it was called the First Moment of Truth Study. And Procter and Gamble, huge company, products galore, and it pretty much said when you come in contact with a service or a product, you are making up your decision. In like three to seven seconds, that's your first moment of truth. You get in contact, you're making a decision on the spot. The second moment of truth is what you actually did. You enjoy it? How was your service level? Yeah, that's going to you know put you back as a repeat customer. So then in 2011, Google said that's all great. We agree, but we believe now that funnel starts with us. Zero moment of truth. I know I need this. They're going to research it on Google first before they even go to that zero moment of truth or first moment of truth. What's mentioned in that study, which still rings true today, and I think kind of ties back to just marketing as a whole, is—

Yeah.

They say there's a stimulus that triggers that Google zero moment of truth that triggers them getting in contact with you down the line. So there's 2 stimuluses. There's controlled and uncontrolled. So uncontrolled is what you just talked about. You can't control Mother Nature. You can't control pipes breaking. Completely out of your control, but controlled is your marketing.

Yeah.

You know, how can we drive people into your funnel at any point in time, no matter what the weather is, with an offer, telling your story, things of that nature? So, um, when things like, you know, 70-degree days every day for an HVAC company in California happen, you need to, need to push. And back to the, the quote, 1% of the, of the, uh, market's in the market at any given time. So Go back to scale, have your your digital presence set up so when that zero moment truth happens, you're capitalizing on it and and go with it.

Yeah.

Then do it from once you get it. You know the big thing with that is, and I mean you could probably even talk about it on your side, but that it's no secret that my office here in Nashville is almost completely empty.

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3 to 7 seconds. They're pretty much— they're 60 to 70% there when they're calling you. So you drive a lead in, they're 60%. It's almost yours to mess up.

Yep.

At that point. So yeah, that's, that's pretty much it. So it's It's it's a little. We're fighting. There's a lot of people struggling out there. You're not alone if you're listening to this and you're like, yeah, my leads are my cost per click.

Well, I mean, everyone is. Yeah, like literally everyone. And I think that's an important message is just like literally everyone. I don't know anyone that's like, fuck yeah, this is great.

And I heard a lesson years ago and it still rings true. We call it the double V. So when things aren't good, no one's setting records this year, right? In home service, you can take a short-term. dip in revenue. You don't wanna take a short-term or a dip in market share 'cause that doesn't come back. Revenue will come back. So you might hit a V, but you don't wanna hit a double V. You don't wanna lose market share with it. So even though it can be hard to be consistent at times, staying with that marketing approach, analyzing it, you know, keeps your market share strong. So when things bounce back, your revenue goes right up with it. So yeah, avoid the double V.

What do you think of the people that are like thriving this year? Like, What do you— we seeing any common attributes?

Um, consistency. I mean, going back to 2025 being just a weird year in general, I mean, we had clients have some of the best weeks of their season, uh, like 4th of July week, which is usually kind of a dead zone.

That was a dead zone for us. Yeah, we got punched in the face a few times.

I'd say 3/4 of our clients, it was typical dead zone, but there was a couple that broke records.

So yeah. What'd they do different?

Nothing. Nothing.

They were just like consistency.

Yeah. I mean, they were, they were one of our 52-week active clients. And that's why we preach consistency, especially on the traditional side, because you never know. I mean, back to that 1%. So whatever happened in that market, I think it was like a midsize Midwest market. I want to say they were on, they were poised to strike and something happened. The stimulus happened. Their message was there. And then the other thing, I think when When people are hurting or looking for answers, they can get too cute on the creative side as well. Stay true to what works. Answer those 3 questions I touched on 3 months ago. Why you? Why now? How can I afford you? Answer those 3 things in your ads, good things will happen.

So like why you would be—

Why should I call Wilson out of all the other—

So some feature, some benefit maybe. Yep.

And then why now? Can it get worse? Is there a deal to be had? And then can I afford it? You know, financing, financing. Is there a $99 discount? Yeah, exactly.

It's a good framework.

Yeah. You answer those 3 questions regardless of where you're placing the ad. Yeah, you're setting yourself up well. I mean, 99% of objections is probably price related, so diffuse it out the gate.

Yeah, 100%. I think what I've seen, like my, my big trend from 2025, first off, leads are more challenging for everybody. Now people are still growing, like we're still growing. We're up 22% or something, but like It is harder. We definitely have to work harder. There's still growth to be had. There's still leads out there. We're still adding 700-ish new customers a month. So that feels good.

Yeah.

I don't know what our replacement is. I don't know how many customers fall off. That would be kind of interesting. I don't really know how to measure that, but we currently add 700 new files a month. So people can still do it. One of the things that I've seen with companies that are struggling, the most is I think what you just said, which I think they're doing the right things. So I'll talk to companies in my peer groups or whatever, and these are sophisticated operations. They're $40, $50 million operations and historically large brand spenders, consistent large brand spenders for years. But are they hitting a message that makes sense and resonates at that time?

Yep.

Because a lot of these guys, what I'm noticing is the bigger the brand spend, the more dialed the message has to be. It has to be a good message. You can't just pour money on something and hope it works.

100%.

And a lot of these companies that are spending really big on brand are losing, and I think it's because they aren't dialed on what you just said.

We've been preaching more and more about the halo effect of traditional. I mean, again, disclaimer, all we do really is traditional marketing for the most part. That's our niche, niches and riches.

Yeah, yeah.

especially TV, when you're— and it's not the lowest entry cost, to your point. So if you're spending a significant chunk of your ad budget on anything really, you better make sure it's on point. And I think when things start to slow, your knee-jerk reaction is, I got to change messaging. Listen, a TV commercial, for instance, the shelf life is long. People always want to just switch it up monthly. I have clients that still kill it that have been running the same ad for a year.

Yeah, we're like 90 days.

Yeah.

Maybe longer. Definitely quarterly is definitely still good. But I mean, we have people that go, you know, even longer than that. So seasonality. The other thing is, and I would warn, not warn, but let's say it's been moving landmines, right? You had tariff scares.

Yeah.

So you had consumer pullback, you have weather issues that you mentioned.

Yeah.

one thing slowing, you name the market. So that's where scale comes into play. That's where TV's your friend. That's where traditional media's your friend.

I mean, TV's still the cheapest way to reach the most amount of people.

Still the cheapest way, and it's the way it's consumed. You're sitting there in a place to take action. You're able to really drive home all those 3 points: why you, why now, how can I afford it? And still, survey just came out again, I think it was updated this year, the credibility factor. You buy and brand yourself around a local news source, you're your brand credibility goes through the roof.

Yeah.

So again, moving landmines. So you want to be everywhere, 1% of the market's in the market. The other thing is whenever times get tough and there's consumer pullback, you have to— everybody goes down a peg. Your high spenders that usually have blank checks now want a little bit more value. Now they're shopping at Walmart for the, you know, in a retail sense. So pushing that, Call to action and pushing the value is a huge thing that we always like to push in the messaging, especially when there's a consumer pullback kind of feel.

Oh yeah.

Especially this year.

Yeah.

But I feel like the tariff thing's kind of laid off a little bit. I don't think people are super scared anymore. I think it's kind of eased off.

Yeah. I mean, this year, like, yeah, I mean, you sort of said it, pick a thing.

Yeah.

Right? Hey, is it tariff? Is it AI layoffs? Is it interest rates? Wars? Like, yeah, pick a thing. Pick a freaking thing, throw a dart.

Something to mess up, uh, mess up a business. It happened this year, so yeah, you know.

Yeah, yeah.

But it makes you better, helps you zone it in. And I always say, if you're not continually— I mean, it all starts with the lead. So if you're not continually working with your marketing team and your advertising agency and analyzing what's working, what's not— and I mean, 99% of the people coming to us that are saying they're having problems getting leads to call, They're spending enough. It's just our favorite term is cost shift. If there's a hole in the boat, plug it and move it. Don't just keep spending at the same clip if they're not working anymore. And there's definitely been things, especially on the digital side. Again, you don't have to, I'm not, disclaimer, not poo-pooing digital TV and—

They work together. Yeah, they work together.

Yeah.

I mean, our branded search is up like a lot with TV. I think that's the whole point is it makes your digital more effective.

100%. But has there been, with the ChatGPT thing, I think there's been a perfect example of me not poo-pooing digital, but cost shifting. With the ChatGPT thing, nobody's mastered it yet.

Yes.

But we're seeing some people be really effective in maybe scaling back PPC a little bit and doubling down on SEO efforts because that seems to be—

Oh yeah.

Content, blogs, backlinks are playing a big role in AI.

Yeah, we did a good episode a couple weeks ago.

Yeah.

And it was, Yeah, like if your SEO was good before ChatGPT, like you're great now. You're in a great position. Like we're in a great position, which we're super excited about. And like frequently asked questions. So like quality of SEO, do you have a bunch of frequently asked questions that ChatGPT can just sort of like pull from? If you've been listening to the show for a while, you know that we've been big fans of ServiceScalers. One of the things that they just dropped that we are really excited about is a pay-per-lead program. So what they help you do is they help you directly gain access to leads and scale up your lead partner program. Go to servicescalers.com and say we sent you.

So that's just one example of— I'm not saying to scale up or scale down your budget, but, you know, maybe you take a couple grand here and just double down on content for the site to help you if you're not there or performing well with AI, because I mean, it's coming.

Yeah.

And the cookies, you know, going away is still picking up steam. New study just came out that over half the people, uh, in the US are rejecting cookies when they pop up on your screen, you know, accept or not. They don't know who you are. That, I mean, you're, you're now a ghost. So it hurts you with your attribution tracking. It hurts, you can't retarget them.

Yep.

So all kind of goes down the funnel. But, um, LSA's still been good. I mean, it's still climbing.

Yeah.

Still, Working well for our guys.

Yeah, yeah.

Um, the organic side's still working well, but really, uh, the ones that are feeling it the least, to your point, are the ones that have that branded, branded game down pat. People are looking for you, not a plumber.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like that sounds right.

Yep.

And any, uh, any pro tips for the operators out there navigating '25, rolling into '26?

Um, pro tips. So I would say, just generally speaking, because the people that come to me Don't be afraid to make a change. That's my biggest thing. We have people that reach out, they know there's a problem, but then they get— when you build your business a certain way—

It's tough.

And someone says, I want you to take 10 grand from here and move it to here.

Yeah.

It gets knee-jerk. Don't be afraid to make a change. If you haven't done anything with scale, especially TV, you're not missing the boat yet. There's still time in '25 where the deals are great, depending on your market and weather, that might play a role. And then with '26, if you are interested in TV or traditional, or you're doing traditional or TV, the best thing you can do to protect yourself from the midterm election political is to book in, book it early and lock it in. You could always move that budget around.

Yeah.

Or cancel it. There's no hard contracts with traditional advertising, contrary to what, you know, every media rep will tell you. But you can move it around. But reserving that inventory, locking in a low rate upfront will benefit you big time. If you wait closer to and your state decides to pop off with some random race, you're SOL. So yeah, those are probably my, my 2 big ones.

And dial the message. Can you just repeat that one more time? It was the why you, why you, why now?

How can I afford you?

How can I afford you? I feel like that's probably going to be the takeaway that I quote for the next 4 months.

That's that 1% of the market is in the market. I mean, when you think about how you consume it, even if it's a digital-based video, video is still king.

Yeah. Oh yeah.

And when you look at broadcast TV, old-school TV, for those who don't know, the big 4 networks— ABC, CBS, Fox, NBC— your local news affiliates, Matching credibility with a platform that allows you to just kill those 3 points in a position where I'm watching TV with a laptop or tablet on my lap where I can make an— I could take action.

Yeah.

That's killer. And then you pair it with a well-strategized digital strategy and capture at that zero moment of truth.

Yep.

And you might still feel it. There's things out of our control, but you'll feel it a whole lot less than your competition. Your market share is going to continue to climb even though revenue might be down a little bit. And then when that revenue comes back, You're, you're on top. So yeah, foot on throat, you know the motto.

Yeah, I love it.

Yep. And then we're getting to planning season too. So this is the time of year where people are starting to put their budgets together. Don't be afraid to do an audit. Look at a year, look at it. You have a bigger sample size now. Auditing a bad year is even better than auditing a good year, in my opinion, because now we see it's more definitive on what's—

what works, what didn't. Yeah.

So I don't have my ROAS hat on, but what it all comes down to—

that was good.

I have it with me.

I just didn't wear it today. I have mine on my desk. Do you?

Awesome. Number one takeaway from the Labs podcast was where can I get one of them hats?

Yeah, yeah.

So I gotta, I gotta buy them in bulk.

Yeah, that's cool. This is great.

Yeah, no, thanks.

Appreciate the deep dive on 2025. Uh, definitely a challenging year for most operators, I know, but there's still growth to be had. There's still market share to be taken. Uh, it just takes change.

Yep, yep. All the other metrics are there. It's just getting that lead funnel coming.

Yeah.

Don't be afraid to to reach out, ask for help. Audit, audit, audit, audit, especially this time of year.

Yeah, absolutely. If people want to get a hold of you, how can they do that?

Wantmore-leads.com. Our phone number's on there. We are a smaller shop, so you'll get right in touch with me if you fill out a form or send me an email. So sweet. Tony with Wanamaker, and yeah, feel free to reach out. Awesome, awesome. Thanks, John.

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