$6.9MM in Residential Roofing by 1 MAN in 1 YEAR—and Very Little of It Insurance Work: Lakeside KangaRoof’s Eugene Martin Shares His Sales Process

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Welcome to The Successful Contractor, powered by CertainPath, formerly Success Group International, a show for residential contractors about residential contractors. We chronicle business journeys, share insights, and celebrate successes in this wonderful industry. I'm your host, Bob Houchin. As a reminder, all episodes of The Successful Contractor are available on YouTube as well as your podcast player of choice. For more information on how CertainPath can put your contracting company on a certain path to success, visit our website, www.mycertainpath.com. I'm excited to bring to you an interview with Eugene Martin, a salesperson for Lakeside Kangaroo, Geneva, New York. In 2022, Gene sold by himself $6.9 million in residential roofing. And get this, he estimated only about 10% of those jobs were insurance jobs. You're gonna learn how Gene got into the roofing industry. Then for nearly 50 minutes, he's going to explain his sales process step by step. But before launching the— into the interview, I wanna make a quick point. Gene has been a high sales performer for many, many years. He's been a part of the CertainPath family since 2009. Gene's gone through all of our roofing sales training and he's made the process his own. Weeks ago, we had our CertainPath Awards Gala where we recognized 90 roofing sales professionals for selling over $1 million. So CertainPath Roofing members, if you haven't been to the sales training, quit waiting, go. For non-CertainPath members, it doesn't matter if you're in roofing, HVAC, electrical, or plumbing. We have training to help you, your team build value, sell ethically, and generate a ton of revenue for your company. So come to a Profit Day to learn more. Okay, without further ado, here's my conversation with Gene Martin, the $6.9 million man from Lakeside Kangaroo Roof in Little Geneva, New York. Hope you enjoy our conversation, take away, and Eugene, thank you so much for taking time with me today.

I really appreciate it. How are you doing?

I'm doing well.

Good.

How you doing, Bob?

I'm doing excellent. I'm doing excellent. For people who haven't had the pleasure of meeting you at Expo or a training, could you kind of share with everyone your name, your company name, and where you guys are located?

Yeah. So my name is Eugene Martin and we're located up in Geneva, New York.

How far is Geneva from like New York City though?

Oh yeah, great question. Yeah, because a lot of people think of New York as New York City. We're actually very far away. Yeah, we're probably like 250 miles away. So we're really in between Rochester and Syracuse, out in the rural part. Yeah, I always say the nice part of New York. I like it.

I like it. That's great. We're talking for an excellent reason. You have been a high-performing salesperson in the roofing industry for a while, but this last year you really Kicks and butt, if I could say. What did you end up doing? Your total sales number last year?

I think it was right around $6.9 million.

Fantastic. Good for you. Congratulations.

Thank you.

No. So we're very excited to learn a little bit of the secret sauce. We don't have to give it all away, but maybe a little bit today. But before we get into how you run your appointments, love to learn your story. I always enjoy, you know, learning how people got to where they are today. So Let's start with you. How did you ultimately end up in the trades? What's your background?

So, well, you know, as a young boy growing up, my father was a farmer and, you know, I went on to work for farmers and all that stuff. So, and that was actually going to be my dream. I was going to be a farmer, you know?

Yeah.

And so I got to the point, you know, 16, 17 years old, you know, our church has a youth group and whatnot, and that usually takes place, you know, Saturdays and Sundays, and I said, "You know what? This farming thing is great, but I was in a dairy farm. So yeah, long story short, you know the cows had to be milked on Sundays, so I had to work on Sundays, and I really didn't want to do that. So anyway, I had a brother that was in construction, and I called him up and I said, "Hey, I'm done with this farming thing," and I said, "Do you need any help?" And he's like, "Yeah, sure." So I ended up. Working for him and worked for him for like five years, and general construction. Yeah, we did like you know build pole barns. You know, we did sheetrock, did roofs, did sidings, and all that stuff. It was a great experience. Learned a lot of different things in the construction industry. Yeah, and did that for about five years. And then my brother sort of wanted to switch gears and go more into the excavation side of construction. And he said, "You know what? By the end of the year," he said. I don't want any employees. I'm just going to do that by myself. So I'm like, wow. Sort of first came as a shock a little bit.

Yeah.

You know, and I'm like, you know what, sort of did a little soul search and I said, you know what, out of all this, I really love doing the roofing part, you know, and I think I can, you know, help people out, protect their families, protect their homes, you know. And I really think I can make a difference, you know, and, and in the roofing world at that time and maybe even still today, You know, was sort of viewed as a sort of down-low job, if you will. And so, yeah, that's, that's what I did. I started my own roofing company in the spring of 2005 and owned and operated that for like 6 years and then sort of sold my company, actually merged with Lakeside Kangaroo Roof and stayed on with them as a salesperson, sort of helping with the day-to-day operations and sort of, you know, fast forward to 2023. Really, my main focus now is on sales.

That's fantastic. Yeah.

Yeah.

And you just still enjoy it? Still enjoy all these years? It's still a new challenge every day. Enjoy the interaction with people.

Well, I, I do. You know, I get those days where I'm like, you know, maybe I should be doing something different, you know? But I guess, don't we all, right?

Yeah.

You know, for the most part, 90, 95% of the time, you know, Every customer that I go to every single day is a— it's a different person. You have to meet that different person. And we're— everybody's different. You know, God made everybody different. And, and so it's always cool to sort of see that every house is different.

Yeah.

Yeah. There is some little challenges that come along the way.

Sure. How many appointments will you run a day typically? Do you do the 2 to 3 or sometimes do—

so this time of the year in the wintertime, I would say 2 to 3 is good too. Yeah. And that might be an average of maybe 4 days a week or so. Yeah. Then when we get busy, you know, say like April on to Christmas time, you know, I'll probably be running about 5 appointments a day.

Is that right? Look at you. So what time you start? When you finish?

So typically the first appointment is booked around 8:30, 9:00. And so a lot of appointments run into the evening time. So sure. I guess probably in the summertime. Hate to say it, but a lot of times I'm coming back to the house, you know, it might be 7:00, sometimes 8:00. Yeah, 9:00 once in a while. Not too often.

Right, right. Yeah. You got to make hay when sunshine.

That's it. Yeah. Yeah.

At least you get the winter to take a breath every once in a while.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Love it. Well needed.

That's great. Well, let's, let's talk about your process a little bit and how you get homeowners happily involved with, with you guys when you go to a call. Does how much are you getting from the office about the appointment? What do you do to get your mindset right? So how do you handle those both of those things?

Yeah. So they most of them, I say 80% of the calls, you have a name and an address and an appointment time when I need to be there. Sometimes the office, if they're able to get some information, you know, they might put in there, you know, elderly couple, whatever, you know, hard of hearing, blah blah blah, you know. So All that stuff is—I like it when they do that. This sort of helps you get ready. All right, is this going to be a young person, an old person, or do they have some handicap challenges? You know, and you know how can we how can we deal with that? So how do I sort of get my mind wrapped around it? I've been doing it for long enough. I guess I sort of know the area. Like I'll look at the address and. As far as the type of homes that are in that area, I sort of have a little bit of an idea of, you know, kind of what's after the roofs. Are they going to be high, nasty ones? Are they going to be steep, easy ones? Yeah. High rolling neighborhood, you know, mediocre neighborhood, you know. So that's sort of how I wrap my head around it.

Do you listen to any music or anything? You like quiet, just kind of think about the next, you know, that appointment? I do.

And quite frankly, I'm, you know, from in between appointments, I'm Returning phone calls, we have text messages. And so I don't really—

You make the most out of every second of the day.

Yeah. Yeah. So I don't really have time just to jam out and stuff like that. Yeah, I will maybe more toward the end of the day on the way home. I'll just turn on some country music or something and just sort of chill out on the last ride home, you know?

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. That's good. All right. So you get to the home, right? You pull up, you get out, get out of the truck, and you make it be a line to the door, knock on the door and, you know, take a step back and the homeowner smiles at you and lets you in. How do you— once you get into that home, how do you start making, you know, a connection with that person? So it's not just, oh, a salesperson's here, you know, well, how do you kind of make a friend?

Oh, sure. Yeah. And that's a great question there, Bob. So essentially a lot of our calls are— they called us out so that, you know, we're not the door knocking type salesman. So obviously they sort of know that. Yeah, definitely. They sort of know that, hey, we're there to help them with a problem. So, you know, after, you know, getting on a first name basis and stuff like that, you know, I'll sort of ask them— I'll ask them simply, you know, what can I— what's going on with your roof and what can I do to help you out here? I'm here to help. Yeah. So And they'll start going off on, you know, sort of what's going on and all that stuff. And sometimes you sort of have to take control of the conversation, say, hey, you know what, maybe we can, you know, if you like, they want to take me outside and show me, hey, tell you what, we can get to that in a minute if you don't mind. What I'd like to do is let's sit down at the table, let's go over some information. And yeah, I like to go there and I just really want to ask you some more questions so I can really better understand what's going on, how long you guys lived here, maybe show you some pictures of some past projects that we have done. And that way you can sort of see what type of work that we do and really make sure that this is a good fit, you know. Oh, let's see if we see if this is a good company that you want to work with. Okay. Very good.

So you get to the kitchen table, say, for example, and what are some additional questions you're asking them You know, to see what kind of what they expect from their project. Like you know, I know on the survey it's got what are the top five things that you know you value from your roof and stuff like that. Do you do follow that or or do you kind of have it kind of internalized?

Sort of half halfway internalized. And and you know what quite frankly it's you know having that script and that book is a good thing that way you never miss anything because yeah I know we can all get. Sideways and don't ask some of those questions. And then we look back, you say, if we didn't get the sale, we're like, oh, you know what, I should have asked that question and I, and I failed to do that. Yeah. So, so that's— so I sort of have it internalized and, you know, I just ask them how long they live there and, you know, how long they plan on living there and, you know, how they like the neighborhood and, you know, just sort of conversations, stuff like that. And also Get some facts out of them.

Does that help decide on how you're going to build your options out? If they're like, oh, we're only going to live here another year or two, maybe, you know, you're not going to be able to offer the premium roofing system. Or do you not allow that to influence how you build your options?

No, I pretty much build them all the same way, knowing that, hey, if they're going to sell in a year, They may not want the premium, but you know what? I've also had times where they did want the premium and they want the one with the transferable warranty and the best shingle because you know what? There's a chance that maybe some of their family might buy the home or, you know, they're just that nice, you know, older couple that say, hey, you know what? We can afford it. I just don't believe in doing the cheapest. You know, I want the best. That's just how they're wired and that's totally okay. Yeah. So there's always— Absolutely.

That's all right.

Yeah. Yeah. That's— That's sort of, sort of how we do that, I guess.

You know, I think one of the questions also, like, you know, what prompted you to get a new roof or what prompted you to call today? Right. You asked that, right? So what do you know? Is it, well, I think my buddy next door had the insurance company out and they said they can get us a new roof or like, what are you listening for when you ask a question like that to figure out why they called you?

Yeah. So I'm, I'm listening for Really? What? Yeah. What? What? Just really, what made him pick up the phone? Yeah. Is it the, you know, hailstorm went through the area, which we don't get a lot of those, you know, is it a windstorm? We get more of those, I guess, you know, would be the question, you know, listen for that. Are they, are they having leaks? Are they, you know, missing shingles? Is it just stones coming off their shingles? You know, really, what is it? Yeah. Does the roof look wavy? You know, there's, there's, you name it. There's even more of them.

Yeah, for sure. For sure. Do you upfront in that initial conversation talk about budget? Like, what did you expect this project to be, or do you not get to talk about money a little bit upfront?

So typically I don't ask that question until we've warmed up quite a bit, you know, and I sort of— and we feel like we have a good rapport going on and whatnot. Yeah. And then before I will step outside the home again Do the measurements and all that stuff, and typically go up on the roof and do a roof inspection. So before I go out there, I'll try to answer that question. Hey, what what are you guys thinking for a budget range? Oh, you know, Bob, are you thinking like eight to ten or ten to twelve or yeah, twelve to fifteen, maybe fifteen to twenty. You know, what what are you thinking? Right.

In the face of eight thousand dollars, I thought this is this is a two thousand dollar brand. You know, I'm sure you get some crazy answers, right?

Oh, sure, shit.

You're just like, okay, now I know what I'm I'm in store for, right? Later. That's interesting.

A lot of times my comeback to that, Bob, to answer your question, is like, how would you come up with that number?

Right, right. 20 years ago we got a new roof. That's when it was, right?

Yeah, sure, sure.

So it's— you address it right away in that case. If they give you a crazy— well, I really thought it'd be less than that. You immediately talk about how'd you come up with that number? You know, kind of say plant the seed. It's going to be—

Sure, sure. Yeah. Or I'll give you a quick example. I was out at one a couple of weeks ago. And they're like, hey, we had some estimates last year. And, you know, he, he obviously didn't tell me what those estimates were. It was a really nice home. And I said, yeah, so I'm just going to forewarn you upfront, you know, that if you guys had some estimates last year and they were X, I said, you know how with COVID and everything, you know, groceries, vehicles, gas, everything like went up. Yeah. About 60%. Well, roofing went up about 60% right there. So it's not me, it's not you. It's just it is what it is. Yeah. Just the only reason I'm telling you, Mr. Homeowner, is just so that you can mentally be prepared. But I'm going to do the best I can here for you today.

Sure. When you were initially sitting down with them, you mentioned pictures. What else? You know, and I went through a bounty of questions that you could ask. What else are you trying to communicate, like about the company? Were you showing them the project? What do you do with your—

So in addition to showing them pictures of completed projects that we have done, yeah, I'm also showing them here's our insurance, here's all of our guarantees. You know, I'll go over the guarantees, you know, briefly, but I'll leave it all in there and they can look at that while I'm out there doing the roof inspection and all that stuff. So they can sort of see it with their own eyes. You know, they don't have to take it from me. Take it from the, you know, from my binder and pictures and stuff. Yeah. Yeah. There's our licensing, there's our technician seal of safety and a bunch of certifications of all of our installers. And I'll have some funny pictures in there too, you know?

Yeah. Is that right?

You know, get some levity, get some laughing. You know, I got a little kangaroo, you know, that I'm holding. So I like it.

I like it.

A lot of people are like, is that a real kangaroo?

Yes, it is. We ought to it, you know? Yeah, it's funny. So what do you say about the company or yourself at that point to get them to go, oh, this is someone that I— or a company I can really trust?

Sure. Yeah. So, so in that, probably after the warm-up and stuff, you know, I'll sort of give my story. Hey, you know, I've been doing this for 20 years, you know, specializing in residential roofing on homes just like yours, you know. So there really isn't a project out there as far as in the roofing world that we Didn't tackle, you know. So whatever challenges that you have going on, I probably saw it before, and I'm here to help you out. So if you can tell me sort of what you expect and what you're looking for, and I'm happy to sort of walk you through that. But what I also will be doing, I'll give you some recommendations as well, you know. So if I think something is like totally off the charts, you don't mind if I let you know, right?

No, I'm not. No. Yeah, that's very good. Very good. Okay. So, so, you know, you sit down, you've sat down and have gone through this. How long does that typically last for you? That sit-down warm-up process?

Probably depends on the person. You know, I would say by the time I walk in the front door, by the time we're going over this, it's probably a good 20 minutes.

Okay. 20. Okay. Very good. And then you're— then you're going to go outside and you're going to start doing what? Outside visual inspection, some measuring. You get on the roof right away.

Yeah, I typically— most times I sort of walk around the front of the house, you know, to determine where's a safe spot to, to put up my ladder. And so I'll go up on the roof and sometimes they'll come out with me. Most times they don't, you know. So I'll go up on the roof, take some measurements, do an inspection, take a bunch of photos up there and all that stuff.

Yeah.

And so once I come down, I'll have created all the measurements and all that stuff. I'll go back into the house and I ask them, or I'll let them know that I have some samples with me. And is it okay if I bring them in? You know, I don't always show them brochures. I usually bring in actual samples. That way they can feel exactly what their money's getting them. I like that instead of looking at a piece of paper that looks all glamorous. Yeah, it's—

I can't show it. So when you're, when you're doing your measuring and your pictures, you guys use them, use any kind of an app or anything?

So yes, we do. Sometimes we use Hover, sometimes we use EagleView. And if I know going out it's like a high, steep cut-up roof, you don't have that EagleView. So at that point in time, I'm not getting on those roofs. Yeah, for sure. Unless there's like an immediate need, something that they really want me to check out or whatever. So that's sort of how we determine, you know, or if I don't have an EagleView, I just bite the bullet and go up there.

How about getting in the attic and check anything out there? I know it's always kind of part of the process. I don't know if that's something you still do.

Yeah, I used to all the time, but quite frankly, I backslid from that. I don't go up into every attic because you sort of formulate an opinion how they look, I guess. And, you know, to anybody listening, I would probably encourage them to go up in the attic and look. I'm not saying it's the right way. Yeah, sure. Because you could, you could really tell a lot by looking at attics as far as ventilation and mold and stuff like that.

Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I guess, I mean, your competition, you probably different getting all the certifications out, going the extra mile, getting on the roof. I know a lot of guys just look at it, they drop the bid off. Are you— you guys differentiate yourselves in that way and how far you go above and beyond?

Yeah, that's right. With our credentials and all that stuff. And really the more important part is just taking the time to hear the customer out, basically almost like a doctor, you know, hear their pains and then prescribe a fix to it.

Yeah.

You know, and yes, you're quite a few of our competitors are. Yeah, they're coming out and I just got one last week again. I took the time to explain it to her. She's a lady that she needs to know all the details. Another competitor was definitely a lot lower price than us, but she said, I don't know if he was in a hurry or what, but he sort of came and he talked a little bit and Said, here you go, here's a bid, and he's out the door. You know what I mean?

So a lot of money for this. I mean, wham bam. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

If you're talking, you know, that was like $17,000, you know, for that roof.

So you put in a couple, you know, a couple hours and then they may feel like, feel comfortable with you, they trust you, and then that's how the business comes.

Sure. Yeah, yeah. Have to be trustworthy.

Yeah, yeah. So you've done your measurements and you're ready to come in with some samples. What else? Do you sit down with them at that point and discuss? Is there more of a presentation you give, or has that pretty much all been covered before you did the measure?

So one of the first things that I do when I come back in, I'll ask them, you know, because I'll have left my iPad in there with the pictures and my binder with all of our credentials. I'll ask them, you know, if all that stuff made sense. Do you have any questions on any of that? Is it clear as mud? Yeah. Yeah. You know, And, you know, sometimes I'll have questions, so I'll touch on that. And other— most times they're like, hey, we're all good, you know, and I'm glad you showed me that. That's usually their response, you know. So they're happy just to know like, hey, look, you guys have all these credentials and stuff. Another company that was in here, they didn't even bring all that stuff in here. So I don't know if they have it or not.

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Do you have your options already written at that point? That written down what you're going to show, present them, and then the roof? Nope. So you do that in front?

Do that right in front. Okay. Yeah, yeah. So, and I'll have my little scratch pad there and I'll, I'll break out some options right there. You know, this type of shingle, I'll show them. This is, this one's thicker, this one has different warranties on it.

And okay, yes, yeah, stuff like this. You build the roof with it?

I sort of do. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So in the end, maybe they'll have one thing they want, right? And it might be $25,000. And then you just kind of take, well, I didn't expect that much. So you start taking away from that.

So I know that's the way our trainers taught us. I don't necessarily— I sort of build out maybe 2 or 3 options right there and maybe I do it probably different on everyone. So I'm maybe not consistent on that part. So yeah, I'll typically, yeah, sometimes I'll just give them like, if they want a lot of options, I'll give them like 3 options up front and I'll sort of break it down like, hey, this is what this one will get you. This is what this one will get you. You know, sort of show them the difference that way. Sometimes they're like, hey, you know what? Maybe they just sort of want one option or yeah, they don't Maybe they just don't really care. Yeah. So I sort of give them one option and pay if they're—

well, you're reading of how the conversation's going, what they really want. You're right. If they really want this, I'm like, okay, well, then you really want this, right? Sure. What are some of the different ways that your roof, your options differentiate? Like what materials? Is this longer warranties? Maybe kind of speak to that.

Yeah. Yeah. So different thicknesses of shingles, you know, like CertainTeed makes Like professional-grade shingles that are thicker and better and stuff, have a longer life expectancy. They have more of their average landmark shingle, you know. And also, you know, if they want a different brand of shingle that's less expensive, you know, and give that option. So, so there's always— there's that. Do you want a transferable warranty? Are you going to be selling the house in the next, you know, 10, 12 years? Is that, you know, going to be important to you? Yeah. So with your layments, you do any You have better underlayments. They're pretty much— they're pretty much the same, you know. So that don't really change much here. Sure. Roof. Yeah. There's also some ventilation aspects, you know, soffit vents that we can add. Sure. Maybe insulation and different stuff like that. A lot of insulation. Not a ton, but it is something that we, that we offer sometimes. Gutters.

You know, I was going to get— that was my next— my gutters and how often you're doing gutter jobs.

Yeah, yeah. Gutters are pretty common. Yeah, no. Yeah. So we we throw that in there as an option most times. You know, it's more like a separate line item option. Sure. They don't necessarily need to have it done at the same time. But hey, they just need here. Get her all done.

Here we go. How often do you see homes with not proper ventilation still? Is that still something you see all the time?

Yeah, probably. There's a lot. A lot. Over half for sure. Really? Yeah.

So 60% may find kind of those rough shop roofing companies doing it and are new construction that didn't care.

Or it's, it's not so much that it's more or less older homes that when they built them, they just didn't have much insulation. And so therefore they just naturally bended and they didn't need all that ventilation that we do now where we're making our houses so tight, you know? Yeah. With new, new installation and new Energy Star windows and, you know, so on.

So that becomes a good talking point for you. We'll talk to the homeowner like, oh, we're really going to get your ventilation where it needs to be. Sure. So, you know, it's— there's no mold growing and all that gross stuff, right?

So actually that comes up. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Because they don't want mold growing. Neither does anybody else. That's unhealthy.

No, sure, sure. How much financing do you guys do? Do you do much financing?

Yeah, and I don't have hard numbers on that, Bob. I would say maybe, well, it's getting more and more every year, maybe, maybe 25 to 30%. So a good chunk. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And when you show your options, you always show with a finance price along with the overall price?

No, most times actually I'm showing the overall price, you know, and also I'm showing the finance price with it.

Okay. So you have both.

Yeah, yeah, for sure. Okay. Because, you know, if I find anyway, if you tell them, hey, it's going to be $275 a month, well, what's my overall price? You know, they want to know that for sure.

In all fairness. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. What financing product are you using a lot now? Same as cash or do you fluctuate depending upon what the customer seems to want?

Yeah. So we offer— we don't offer any 0% right now. We offer low-interest financing and we're hooked up through a couple of the local banks and credit unions that we really over the years have developed a good working relationship with them. And that's, that's great. It helps us help the customer and it also helps that credit union to—

Sure.

To get a customer as well. So yeah, it's a win-win situation, you know? Yeah. Yeah. There's some other online ones that we use as well, you know.

How long is the payoff period typically for those, those slow, low interest ones?

Anywhere from 12 months up to 120 months.

Okay. So it's— it could be, oh, you don't like that price? Well, let's stretch it out a little bit, right?

Yeah.

You do a lot of that, you know, like if they start, you know, oh, that's a little more than I expected. So while we do have other financing options, we do that sometimes.

So back, you know, earlier you asked the question, I typically, if they're, if, if they're talking about financing or I'll, I'll ask them if they're considering paying with check or cash or chicken wings or payment options.

I do like chicken wings.

Yeah. You know, it's funny how many people want to trade roofs for chicken wings. Yeah, you wouldn't believe it. Imagine that. But yeah, as far as the fine, if they're like, hey, you know what, we probably want to finance some of that there. And my next question will be, well, where do you guys, you know, what's comfortable for you guys on a monthly payment? You know, so you get into it early on. Yeah, we try to, you know, and if they're like, hey, you know what, we're sort of going to be comfortable around that $250 to $300. All right, Bob. So that's not going to take the pepperoni off the pizza, right?

I can eat shit for a little while, but no gift. Yeah, right, right. That's good though. You address it early on so there's no shock, at least in terms of, you know, that they're wanting to finance at the end or you should assure the path, you know, you've got some strong financing options for them. Well, you give multiple financing options at that point. So if they say, yeah, for sure, I'm financing, we do the 12-month and the 120-month all at once, or are you— you pretty much find out?

Well, so if we find out what their monthly payment is, I'll try to get them into a term that is somewhere like that. If they're like, hey, okay, or, you know what, Bob, I didn't think about this here. I think maybe I got to stick more to $200. And I see you have an option here. I'll show them the whole chart. I'm very transparent. You know, I'll show them the whole chart. Hey, you know what? They can have one here for $180 or $200. I like that one better. You know what? We can, we can do that. No problem.

Yeah, that's great. Quick, quick insurance break. How much insurance work do you guys do? Do you do a lot of it or not so much?

Not a ton. Just we don't have a ton of storms around there where we live. You know, I mean, last year we had a, had a hail storm. So we did a little bit of it. So, but really, it's probably 10%, maybe.

Is that right? Okay. How much of those jobs differ for you versus the, you know, the typical what we call retail jobs? You know, is it you're trying to meet the adjuster out on the site? And then, you know, it's just more steps to that call?

More steps of the call for sure. Yeah. Try to meet the adjuster on site, you know, and You know, really go up on the roof and do the roof inspection together and figure out where we can, you know, be fair and reasonable. And because a lot of times if there's a storm going through, these people, the homeowners, they weren't mentally prepared to replace this roof. This was sprung upon them one day when the hailstorm ripped through, you know. So it's like, oh, you know, we now we're going to spend 15 grand on a roof. So, you know, they obviously don't want to Pay a whole lot more than their deductible, if possible.

Yeah, right, right, right. How often does that does that happen for you where you're saying, hey, there's a gully between the they're they're giving you ten really this project's fifteen or sixteen. Does that happen often or are you able to negotiate it insurance?

It it yes, it does happen. You know, I mean, seventy-five percent of the time we can usually get to terms with the homeowner and the insurance companies. Yeah, so that yeah, we sort of got to get it. All three on board, you know. Yeah, us and homeowner and insurance company. Other 25% of the time, you know, we can, or it's just extreme going back and forth, you know. Yeah.

Do you do will you use financing as a bridge in those situations?

If there's a $5,000 difference or something like that, we have. Yeah. Yep. Yeah. Financing or you know. Hey, maybe maybe instead of that homeowner wanting to. Upgrade all of a sudden, like hey, maybe you just want to sort of stick with what you had. You know what I mean? Right. And worry about the upgrades because they thought that we get everything, but they're like yeah, yeah, that's not how this works. Yeah, yeah. A lot of times I find myself educating the homeowner, like hey, this is what the insurance company how they work and what they owe for. You know, people don't know.

Yeah, like say it's stuck in that situation where you have to use it.

They don't. Right. Right. Yeah. Advocate, teacher.

Yeah. That's interesting. Okay. So to kind of go back to the process in general, dealing with objections, people that go, boy, it's still a lot of money that we're talking about. I want to get other bids. How do you address those people that I was raised, I got to get 3 bids or I got to get 30 bids? You know, I'm a bid collector. How do you handle it?

Sure. So I always struggle with that part. But, you know, I will agree with them. Yes, it is a lot of money. Yeah. Bob, look what we're doing. You know, we're putting a roof on your home, you know, and that's protecting you and your family and, and probably the largest investment of your lifetime. Right. You know, so, I mean, you would agree with everything that we're doing. You know, this is pretty much where it is. Yeah. But let me ask you, so you sort of helped me build this Roofing system. Is there anything here that you want to take away from it? Or you know what? What when you're getting more bids, what do you? What are you going to be looking for? You know, and sort of base it off of how their response is there. Yeah, yeah. And you know, most times it's like we just want to really see what's out there. You know, yeah.

So, you know, at that point in time, sometimes you don't push, but you just ask the open-ended questions to get the information.

Sure. Yeah.

And, you know, you don't want to be too bold. You don't want blood to get kicked out.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Or sometimes, you know, I would just let them know, hey, since I've been in this business for 20 years, this is— you're welcome to get as many bids as you want, Bob. You can talk to 10 contractors if you want. You know, we're in a competitive business. We're all going to be doing similar things and not identical things. But if whether you choose to use us or not, I just want you to remember you're going to get what you pay for, you know, kind of plants the seeds that you don't know what you're going to get with other companies. Yeah. Yeah. And I do sort of know what other companies are doing out there. I've been in the marketplace, you know, so You know, you can sort of say that they might not be doing the proper ventilation, they might not be doing the proper underlayment, they might be, you know, utilizing subpar, you know, labor materials. Yeah, whatever, you know. So somewhere to get a cheaper price, they have to be cutting corners somewhere. And sometimes you don't always know where those corners are. Until a few years after they put the roof on, you know, certain things get blown off.

Sure. Have you had that? I'm sure doing 20 years you've seen the 2-year-old roof that's just, you know, just an awful installation. Oh, we have.

Yeah. Yeah. I've even been out to customers where they called us for an estimate. They chose to go with somebody else, and then they called us back out there and they're like, wow, you know, I regret I didn't go with you guys. You know, they came and blah, blah, blah. You hear all the stories and You sort of feel bad for them, but it's butchered up and now they want you to fix it. You know, they wonder why it costs more than what it did originally. You know, it's unfortunate, right? How about this?

Do you often walk in a situation where people have the other bids in their hands? They go, you know, gee, y'all here. I had 2 other roofing companies come out. You know, do you find that out right away or does it come out kind of at the end? When you start going to your bid, it really varies.

You know, some yeah, sometimes I find up find out ahead. Sometimes it's later on. You know, yeah, yeah. Not most times. Once in a while, if you gained enough of trust with them and they and and they really like you as a company, yeah, and they're probably not going to go with those other companies. They might tell you, hey, look, here's what they're offering. You know, or Or at least verbally say, hey, this is what their, their price was for, for this or that. Yeah.

But will you sit there and compare with you or should you just kind of acknowledge it and go, okay?

Yeah, certainly. Sort of acknowledge it, you know, and hey, this, this is how we're different, you know, try never to bash another competitor or anything like that, you know, but just show them the differences, stuff like that. And then they can sort of make an educated decision from there, you know? Yeah, for sure.

How often are you able to close right away, or does it sometimes take 2 or 3 times, or how does that work for you?

So, so the close— my closing ratio is 51.2% or whatever it is. And I would say out of that 51% of the time, I think probably 40, probably between 40 and 45% of those I'm able to close right away.

That's great. Yeah, yeah. And just because the trust you build, the relationship and all that.

Yeah, that and our company reputation because we've been around for a while and they see our trucks and— Sure. Yeah.

Now on the ones that you don't close, someone's like, I just really would feel comfortable getting to— Okay, I understand. How do you— is there— do you have a process for when you call that person back? Do you set an expectation of a call you back in a certain number of days or How do you handle those? Sure, sure.

Yeah. So I will ask them, you know, do you mind if I call you back in, in a few days to sort of see where you might be at? Yeah. And most times they're like, hey, yeah, we're totally good with that. Or, hey, you know what, we got a bid coming out. You know, he couldn't be out for a week and a half. All right. Well, I'll just wait till maybe like a little bit after that week and a half after that gentleman comes out. Would it be all right if I call you then to Sort of see where you're at. Yeah, at that at that point in time. And yeah, most times they're gonna say yeah, sure, go ahead. You know, unless you tick them off.

Well, I could see if you're often mean-spirited. No. So how do those those phone calls go? Do you have kind of a script or you just check in politely, see how it went, observe we can move forward, or how do you get?

Yeah, mainly just check in politely. I'll I'll. I'll simply ask them, say, this is Gene with Kangaroo, just sort of following up on our visit that we had, you know, a few days ago. Just wonder if you had any questions or where you're at in the process. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's key where you're at in the process. And let's just sort of let them tell you and see where it's going. Sure. Let's—

okay, let's, let's think more positively. You close, you close the job. Someone's happy to get involved with you guys. What do you do is like a post-close process. So I've signed the paperwork and— but, you know, obviously I don't know how fast you can get most rooms on, but typically sometimes it can be a little bit. Yeah. You know, so there's that concern of cancellation. Sure. So how do you avoid cancellations or anything you do to kind of make me feel warm and fuzzy as you're heading out the door? Do you have a process for that?

I do. And again, I don't use it all the time. Yeah. But, you know, number one, thank them for their, for their business and for choosing you and your company and all that stuff. And just let them know that you're going to do everything that you can to, you know, make this project go smoothly for them and, and to demonstrate to them that we're going to be the proper roofing company for them, you know. And also, so I'll typically also ask them to maybe jot down— I'll slide them a piece of paper, say, hey, Just help me out, if you don't mind. Could you write down maybe 3 reasons why you chose to go with me and my company today? Yeah. And let them jot it down, you know.

Do you take that or you let them beep it?

I typically take it. Yeah. I'll say, hey, don't worry, Bob, I'm not going to share it with anybody.

Yeah. Yeah. No, that's good. I mean, I've read stuff about by people writing why they chose you. It cements it. Believe it. That's right. Sure. Right. That's why I like— how long have you been doing that?

For a long time. Long time.

I like that a lot. Then you can use it. So I just— we would want to know how to get better and why you bought from us. It's, it's a very easy way to get them to do that.

Yeah. Yeah. It serves 2 purposes then, you know, sort of why they bought from you as an option. So yeah, what was the key?

I like that. I like that a lot. So, okay, so, so they've written why they love you because you're just the best and then you head home. How often are you typically able to get roofs installed? I mean, I guess it just depends.

So yeah, this time of the year we'll be out there within a couple of weeks. You know, come September, October, November, they're probably going to be waiting anywhere from 6 to 10 weeks. Yeah. You know, and I'll also just reassure them that, you know, I'll always give my direct cell number, you know, so they can always call me with any questions, but also reassure them that our project manager is going to be following up with them to get this project scheduled and also to let them know if we are out 6 to 10 weeks, You know, don't expect to hear from our project manager tomorrow or next week. It's going to be close to that, that start date because we got a lot of variables that can happen in the next 6 to 10 weeks, you know, as far as weather. So sort of set that expectation, you know. So I also do that that way. They're not calling the— what would our scheduler, you know, 3 weeks or 3 days after I sign them up, hey, we didn't hear from your scheduler yet. You're like, what's happening? Right. You know, he can't forecast. 8 weeks out which day we're going to be there. For sure. For sure.

How much, you know, once that's sold, do you have much to do with production? You talk with them much about the project or is it pretty much they just— you're worrying about sales and then they handle the rest?

Yeah. So I used to always meet with the team every single morning. I don't find myself doing that anymore. I mean, our production manager has been with us for now for a while now, so He sort of knows, like, you know, what, what's going on and what to expect. And we sort of just developed that over the years. But, you know, if he has any questions, you know, you're always available to talk or text or whatever. Yeah.

Do you collect the check then, or is there someone on the production side that does that?

So actually what we started doing the last couple of years is when we're done, our office actually just sends them out an invoice and they'll just pay off of that. Yeah. Okay.

Where— so AR hasn't gotten too high with that?

Because she did it a little bit, a little higher than I'd like to see it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm not saying it's— I used to go out and collect checks and it's— that's always a good, a good thing to do it. Yeah. That way I just was so much and I don't have—

You've been a busy, busy boy.

You've been a busy boy for sure.

That's excellent. Well, Gene, just kind of in wrapping up, you know, what motivates you to just You know, you pull some long hours in the summer, right? That's not an easy sacrifice. What drives you to put that kind of effort in time?

I would say mine is I'm very competitive, so I always want to do better than what I did before. Yeah, you know, sure. And I like to see those closing, closing rates very high. So that's probably the number one motivator. Yeah. And I like to make money as well. So that's, that's, that's another one as well, I guess. And I just really just like helping people out. And I know, I know the opportunity is out there. And you know what, if, if I can't help them out, are they getting burned by somebody else? You know, and I'm not saying that, you know, we have good competition as well. Sure. So, but there's also some competition that I feel is not really Doing what they can to help people out. Yeah, yeah. It makes all in true bad.

Like there, you know, that gets that negative connotation about roofing because there's the fly-by-night guys. Sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. How much do you pay attention to your numbers? Or if it is it every day you're checking your traffic, your revenue?

No, and you know here we're at March whatever. Are we at March ninth today? Something like that. March ninth, tenth. I don't even know what my numbers are for 2023.

So you just worry about the process. Every call.

Yeah, just, just focus. My main goal is to focus on that individual customer that's in front of me right there. Take— give them 110% of your time. And after that, then we move on to the next customer, you know, and look at the numbers.

Yeah.

Toward the end of the year, wherever we fall, we fall, you know? Yeah, sure. What—

last question. What advice might you have for You know, there's maybe new salespeople in the roofing space that watch this. What would you say to them? How to be successful?

Probably just to be— have that helpful mindset. You know, what can I do to help you out as far as the customer? And just be very transparent and be humble and just always do the right thing, even if nobody's watching. Yeah, good stuff.

Thank you so much for your time. This was really enjoyable. Congratulations on all your success, and I appreciate you taking some time with me.

That's Eugene Martin, the $6.9 million man from Lakeside Kangaroo in Geneva, New York. I hope you've enjoyed today's show. If so, please like and subscribe on YouTube.

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