After the Acquisition: Rebrand or Leave It Alone?

Today we're talking rebranding.

You don't need branding, man. Like, you can grow a big business without branding.

This will cause disruption. Is the juice worth the squeeze?

When we start to think about rebranding, where the benefits start to pop out at.

The big thing for me has been, are the people excited to work here?

One team, one dream, baby.

We are just building one big business. So you're sort of like running the bus on this. So like, how do you think about this is going to go down?

I've tried branding. The reason that we never did branding before is we just burned money.

Welcome back to Owned and Operated, a top 200 business podcast. I'm joined by my good friend today, Jack Carr, a top 150 US business podcast, as he has enjoyed reminding me over this past bit, over this past week. Congrats on that. That's freaking huge, dude.

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Welcome back.

You and Grant Cardone. Solid way to start. No, it was Tony Robbins. It's like my face next to Tony Robbins' face, which is the weirdest thing.

Like, I never would have thought that would happen. We're famous, we're famous.

Um, I told you the other day I got, got spotted at the gym.

That is crazy.

I was like, this is weird. Z-list celebrity status.

Z-list. And you were getting like, you were getting yoked. Spotted and yoked.

Yeah, it comes with zero benefits. There are no benefits.

That, uh, that's hilarious. Anyways, on this show we talk home service, we talk about how to grow home service, and, uh, we generally have a lot of fun doing it. So today We're talking rebranding.

Why are we talking rebranding, John?

Why are we talking rebranding, Jack?

You have any plans to do any rebranding?

I do have some plans to do some rebranding. So we have bought 14 businesses now. We closed on another one last week. If you are keeping score from your car, that was our 4th one this year. We actually are thinking about putting our 5th one under contract here, uh, early this week or next. So look out. Um, yeah, which, that's pretty cool. We have like a nice, a nice pipeline, which is awesome. And, um, as we, as we are doing this, we have now, uh, 5 brands that we're working with, which is a lot. And so we're starting to think about, okay, when should we rebrand? Who should we rebrand? And like, should we rebrand at all? Which I think is a kind of a reasonable question. There's a lot of aggregators out there that don't rebrand. They, they build like, you know, they have 20 brands or however many in their, in their business. But yeah, so like, what do you think? Why rebrand at all? We actually had a really similar conversation with Rich Jordan.

Most months don't, right? Most don't rebrand. Interestingly enough. Yeah, Rich and I talked about this at SM Bash quite a bit as well. So I mean, I mean, there's, there's some definite, uh, to put some guardrails on both sides of it, right? There's some definite times to rebrand and there's some definite times not to rebrand, right? So starting off with definite times to rebrand is really small tuck-ins that have zero brand whatsoever, you know, sub-$400,000 in, in top line. There's nothing there. Like, if you're buying that business and merging it into yours, right, there's no brand. Do it on a tuck-in.

I have done that on Tuesday.

It takes, it takes a week. Like, don't even worry about it. Just rebrand, rip it, and call it a day. So that's the easy ones, um, right? Nobody cares about Joe's Mechanical if it had 200 customers. Like, and if they did, they're probably not going to become your customers. So it's, it's not a— it's a win-win either way. Um, and then on the other side of that coin is, um, the don't rebrands. And that's, I think, for this podcast, like Apex, all these big— I don't know of any big consolidators that are rebranding.

I don't know. I mean, I think they do potentially underneath. The way to think about if it's private equity, there's Apex and then there's a company Apex owns. I think Frank Gay in Florida is Apex. Apex does not rebrand. If Frank Gay buys a company, they probably rebrand. That's how I would assume that happens.

That makes sense. Pioneer here in Middle Tennessee bought Frog. They bought Pioneer in East Tennessee. They bought something in Chattanooga, and they all turned it into Pioneer. Pioneer is their flagship brand here in Tennessee that has all been rebranded from other companies. was the original platform, but still. So that makes sense. So there's a level at which you come down to in which they do start to rebrand the whole thing.

Well, if the portfolio company's doing a tuck-in, they do the rebrand. Yeah. Yeah.

And then I think it doesn't make sense if you're talking about, you know, hey, you own something in Florida and you bought something in California. I mean, that one's pretty easy too. Probably don't want to rebrand it just because there's less benefits and efficiencies, just because the locale is different. You're not going to I mean, you might see a few, but really, I don't think you're gonna get that many.

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So why not keep every company under its original operating name? Where, when we start to think about rebranding, where do the benefits start to pop out at?

I think there are some real dollar and cents costs, and then there's an intangible cost. And I think the intangible cost is ultimately The biggest needle mover for me. Um, so dollars and cents, it is just hard to manage a lot of brands. Uh, it's disruptive, it's confusing. Um, your marketing team is like, you're not gonna drive incredible creative or brand building activity with 5 brands. Like, you're just gonna do the lowest effort thing to fill their boards, which Can work, and you can still build a big business. It just might not be the best business that you could have built. So it's like a min-max problem, I think. Like, are you maximizing your opportunity, or are you, or are you not? And I think if that's all that you're looking at, I do think it's harder to rationalize a rebrand when that's the math is like. It's a little bit of cut cost. It's kind of a distraction. Um, I don't know. I, I think if that was the only equation, I don't know that I would rebrand. I do think it would get more and more complicated, uh, as you added more locations. Like, we're at 5 locations now, and it would get complicated to run 5 individual brands. So I think you would do exactly what we just said. We're like, Hey, okay, in Nashville, Rapid's the brand, so anything in Nashville becomes Rapid. And in Fort Wayne, PG or MERS is the brand, so they become the brand. So, uh, yeah.

To take that a step further too, which I find super interesting, is, uh, and what I vastly underestimated was from running marketing personally as a smaller company, right? When you're running marketing spend for plumbing, when you're running marketing spend for electrical, when you're running marketing spend for HVAC, that's all 3 different copies a lot of times, right? Because you're running specialties for Wilson Electrical, the BOGO deals, and then you're running water heater flushes for Wilson, and then now at Rapid you're running water heater flushes and you're running BOGO. So what I, what I find is the interesting part too from a marketing perspective is the consolidation of being able to run like, hey, we can run these same campaigns and all we do is click additional geographies to start filling the board rather than, hey, we're running like 6 different businesses across 2 brands. Or if you're running 5 brands like you're running, right, you can— the math starts to add up really, really quickly. Like you're running 30 different campaigns across 5 different brands.

It's a lot.

Crazy.

It's a lot. I think a lot— I think marketing is really the one that overcomplicates the most. It is because like from an accounting perspective, You don't really notice it. Like, it all just ends up in the same bank account. For ServiceTitan, it all ends up in the same thing, or Housecall Pro, or FieldPulse, or like wherever it's going. It can, it can end up wherever. Uh, but marketing is the most complicated. And then like uniforms and— yeah. I think ultimately the big thing for me has been internally, what are we building and Are the people excited to work here? And I think that that's the intangible that I would say is really hard to— there probably is a way to put math to that. I don't know how to do it. But it's been interesting, like when we went down and we partnered with Jack here in Rapid, and we went down and talked to his team, and, uh, like his team was excited to be a part of something bigger. but they felt like they were on the outside of something bigger. Like it was a different—

They felt they were one step removed.

One step removed. Yeah. And I think that, that, that really resonated with me. And then when I talked to other people and just like in, in brands that we had brought on, just like, hey, what do you think? What do you think about like your legacy brand or like would you rather be Wilson or whatever? And it was a resounding, we would rather be Wilson. Like we just want to like, we want to be a part of this thing. And I think that when you think of the Kuldads and the Pascals and the Gettles and these people that are highly successful, multi-location, culture was a very big part. It's an intangible, hard to measure for private equity part of the equation that I think that rebranding does right by.

Yeah.

I think that it makes you one team, whereas you're literally not one team under a bunch of different brands, or if you are, it's very hard to get there because internally it's very easy to say, oh, down at Rapid, over at Wilson, hey, over there at Buddies. Like, it's just harder to get everyone aligned on like one team, one dream, baby. So—

One team.

Yeah, it is like, it's, it's, it's harder. Uh, so I think that that's like the intangible that Can be done well.

I think along the same lines too, is for most people who are actually going through this process or thinking about going through this process, right, there's another aspect to it. And that is the, the maturation, the maturity level of the brands. So you bought 5 companies, but none of those companies— and for the most part, anybody buying any smaller company, the maturity of the brand you're buying is not going to be at the same level of the maturity of your current brand. Yeah. And so the ability to not only step up your brand game like day one. And what does brand do in a market? Brand, it gives you and your customers more trust.

Mm-hmm.

They see the— that they believe that you're a bigger, more responsible business. There's a lot of things there that aren't necessarily just only cultural related from an intangible side. There's a trust factor. There's a size of your company factor that— I mean, we have Hiller in our market. Hiller's known to be like Gap, Allegedly known to be gouging, price gouging, or at one point was price gouging, allegedly.

But it's alleged.

The consumer— alleged. But the consumer still chose them because they trusted. And when you ask them, they're like, hey, I just wanted it taken care of. Like, and I knew the big company was going to handle me, like get it taken care of, less friction, less issues. We don't trust the small guy. And so I think that there's an intangible side too, from a customer standpoint, but also from your team standpoint, is they feel like again, back to culture, that they're part of something bigger and there's more belief behind, right? Because sales is— there's a lot of internal battles in sales. And so I think that that helps push internally the sales service and salespeople to believe in themselves and believe in the product a little bit more, which is interesting. Interesting.

I think so too. But I think maybe most importantly, hard to measure.

Hard to measure. Very hard to measure. I think Rich actually had something on this at SMBash though, and he said he saw like a 10% increase in closure rate. When he rebranded within like 60 days.

I can see it.

So like he was actually able to measure his close rate increasing over— and I'm butchering it. There was a certain time frame and a certain percentage increase. But I remember leaving his workshop thinking, that's ridiculous. 10% over 30 or 60 days just because you changed your brand is wild. Like nothing else changed. Maybe some training.

Yeah, I'm sure training. Well, call center. I think there was a lot of other things because they centralized a lot. The way that this helps us to think about it is what are we building? I like the idea of we are just building one big business. That's what we're here to build. We're here to build one big business. And When you think about it like that, it helps to break down some of the should we, shouldn't we into, yeah, this just makes sense. Like, this is the best business decision. This just makes sense. So let's talk about how to actually do it. And Rich actually did this not that long ago. He just went through and did a big rebrand. So let's—

Because rebranding doesn't necessarily mean that you are buying somebody and rebranding them. You could also rebrand your entire company. Just because you didn't like your current brand. Like, we could rebrand Rapid Response into something else.

Billy Bob Thornton's Plumbing.

That's a brand name.

Nashville, baby.

Nashville.

The uniform is only a mullet.

Yeah, everybody— everyone must have a mullet. It's gonna be rough for me.

It's gonna be good.

Um, but yeah, so, so you said Rich did this recently. I mean, you've done this at some point in your past, right? You guys went—

We've rebranded so many times, it's been ridiculous. Now, the only thing that's different right now is we're, we're talking about rebranding in markets that Wilson doesn't have a presence. So it's really like what we have to think about is, do what we— is what we bring to the table better than what the current team brings to the table? Yes, no. Sometimes it's no. And Is it still worth it because of the team unity that we will experience? And it's no longer us versus them, it's Branch. It's like, and it's like one company. And I think that that's the, I think that that's the part that we're gonna get the most value from is, 'cause really like to me, that's the reason that I wanna do this is like everyone's aligned. We can pick up the phone the same, we can answer the same, scripting's the same, tech stack is the same.

Mm-hmm.

It's just like one— we are building one big thing. And I think that's the mentality of like, what are you building? Well, we're building one big thing. So how do we get everyone aligned on the one big thing that we're building? All right. So how do we actually do it? Have you done this? Like, how did you do it?

So we've never done it on a big level, though. We've only done it on a like, hey, tuck in smaller— like the biggest one we tucked in was $2.2 million in top line and I mean, I think it's different when you do a tuck-in of that size versus like a larger company. Like some of yours, if you were to go and do it and rebrand tomorrow, you would have no issue, right? Because again, they don't have a brand. They might have a few hundred people who follow them and like them on Facebook or whatever, but overall, like, it's not a brand. So you were saying rebrand, but it's actually like initial brand. initial branding a company. Um, so I mean, do you want to go into tuck-ins and like how easy that is, or do you want to just go from a higher level? Because I, you know, I think that we, we beat the dead horse here on tuck-ins in the past.

Okay, so yeah, higher level. I think, um, I'll just say what we've done. Uh, it's a little bit different than what I think we're thinking about doing, but you know, what we've done in the past is depending on the age of the truck, we don't rewrap it. Like, we really changed the GBPs, we changed the uniforms, we changed the scripting in ServiceTitan, we changed the phone script. We just let everyone know what happened. We send out letters, SMS, email, all that stuff. Like, hey, here's what happened. We joined forces with X, we partnered with X. And, um, yeah, it's— to me, it's not that complicated. If a vehicle's newer, like 1 or 2 years old, we will rewrap it. So like, we're gonna rewrap pretty much the whole fleet, I think, at Uh, in Nashville, and I think that'll be sweet. Um, there's some older vehicles in Fort Wayne that like we're probably not going to rebrand because they're like 10 years old, so we'll probably just like run those vans out and then we replace them and they brand them Wilson. I actually think you have your first Wilson-branded truck coming down this week. I think Jeremy's driving it back.

Yeah, we do. And then I'm driving back the second one next week.

Mavericks, right? Yeah, get them Mavericks!

I'm pumped.

Yeah, they're sweet. Um, so yeah, I mean, to me it's not over— it's not like it hasn't been that complicated. Uh, changing GBP names, changing phone scripting, letting customers know. Um, I don't know, for most of the businesses, I mean, we've rebranded. So we've bought 14 and we've rebranded 9. Uh, and In 9 of them, like, the customers really did not care. Like, one of them, the customers cared. Uh, yeah, but it was mainly like they didn't care about the brand. They cared that the brand used to charge half of market price and we didn't. We just charged market price. So they're like, well, come on, you ruined them. Yeah. I'm like, yeah, I don't know.

Yeah.

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Let me ask you a question though about that, because again, some— I've heard other— going through this, I mean, there's been a few people who've gone through rebrands recently, and one of the big questions that I had was there was an individual who believed that, um, so we— I think you and I have done very similar rebranding in that we kind of just rip it and go from there, maybe change the Like you said, the intro on the phone, change the website, change the GMB, change all the marketing materials. But there was an individual who actually didn't change any of the frontward-facing information, and they only let people know as the phone call came in. And so their, their idea behind that was they wanted to be the one to have to face the objection.

Do you—

what do you think about that versus kind of the ways you've done it historically?

We've done both. Like we still have the old GBP's from businesses that we bought. Like we have a G, we have a. It is kind of wild. I mean, GBP's are crazy. Like we bought a business back in 2021 and we paid 800 grand for it. Not even the customer base, the techs, the trucks, anything. The GBP alone produces millions of dollars a year of revenue. Like it is wild. And it to be honest, it's almost like it's got it's like matured. Like it produces more. Today, as a GBP for a brand that we haven't had in years, than it ever did for the seller. Like when we bought the business, I think they were doing two million, and I'm pretty sure that GBP did three and a half last year. Like it's crazy. So to me, like yeah, I think leaving a GBP alone like is okay. Like I think you can do it. We've done it both ways. We've left GBPs alone. We've transitioned them to Wilson. I don't know that there's like. a right or wrong answer. I do think the more GBPs, the better. So, like, whatever lets you keep more GBPs, I think is great.

Yeah, interesting. Yeah, because I mean, what about like— so same idea, but what about like website redirects? So again, we— it's a great example. Like, Rapid has a terrible, terrible website URL, um, which I hate. So I'm happy to get rid of it. But like, is that something that you think that you would plan on leaving up in the hopes that if somebody remembered that URL at one point that they would We just redirect it.

We buy the domain and redirect it.

Okay.

Yeah, and I think we redirect it to a lander of like, here's what happened, calls for $25 off or something like that. Usually we put like a try us coupon.

Yeah, it's interesting because that, that's what the individual is saying, is that they didn't do that, that they let— they just let you call, go to the website, let you call thinking it was Wrap, and then like, hey, oh, it's actually this.

And we work with Wrap. We have the old GBPs up. They call in, We say, hey, it's Wilson. They're like, oh, I thought I called Central. And we're like, yeah, cool. Like, here's what happened 5 years ago. So we've done it both ways.

But do you see any difference or is it just really negligible?

I don't think it matters. Yeah, I think it'll be really interesting to see what happens in a new market. Like, I think like you guys are hitting it really hard. Like, what's your— you're sort of like running the bus on this. So like, what do you think? How do you think about this is going to go down?

I think that it's going to go down pretty smoothly. I'm not actually worried.

Just as far as like, what do you think? Like, what's the tactical— like, what do you guys Doing? Or how long do you think it's going to take? Like 30, 60, 90?

Less than 30.

Yeah, like all trucks wrapped, less than 30?

Oh no, no, no, no, no, no. I mean, I mean, just like on— so when I'm— when I think about, uh, like rebranding presence, I think about it's online marketing, right? So what we are, we are planning on doing is replacing our online marketing. None of our— we have 6 wrapped trucks. Like, so you're talking about like all your trucks wrapped? Like, they aren't anyway. We don't have a brand. Like, it is we got to 8 million, on track for 8 million with no brand. And I'm convinced that people don't actually know that about myself.

Yeah, like, yeah, it is kind of crazy. Like, you can just buy the leads.

You better call Rapid Response. Well, I get— so I, I get, I get arguments all the time with, uh, people like, hey, branding, you don't need branding, man. Like, you can grow a big business without branding. And everybody on Twitter is like, oh, Jack, you're wrong, you're wrong, that's because you're wrong. And it's like You can build a business with branding, but you can also build a business without branding in many home service industries. Like, you don't need a brand. You would be so surprised by how many people don't know you. Yeah, even your own customers don't know you.

I mean, we're, we're interviewing for a CFO and there was a guy 10 minutes away down the road, and we invest in a lot of branding activity and non-branding, uh, lead gen, and he didn't know who we were and he's 10 minutes down the road. Yeah, it's just like, it is what it is.

I think we get so consumed with— we're in the industry, so we know everyone else and we see all their branding. And so we're like, oh, branding, branding, branding. But like, if you were— when's the last time that you saw like the sweets, like a bakery truck, and you're like, oh, that's my bakery truck?

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

When, when your birthday comes around, like, you just don't. Yeah, I don't know of anyone. I don't know any billboards. I don't know— I don't remember anything off the top of my head from a branding perspective unless it's like Maybe a catchy jingle.

Yeah.

Um, but point being is, so for us, I think we just rip it in under 30. We change everything over. We let our entire, um, customer base know. We text them SMS, we send them an email, we probably maybe send them a mailer, and then we rip it and change it. Uh, we change the uniforms. We leave probably a few of the wrapped trucks, and then we wrap a few per month as it comes along and as funds are available. Like, it's not that complicated from from my end, I, I don't think—

how many trucks are down there?

Like 20? Yeah, 18, 19.

I don't think that'll be bad because I'm pretty sure Mavericks only cost like $2,000 a wrap. So like $40,000, that won't be bad. It's a one-time.

So I mean, doesn't even count.

One time.

But yeah, I mean, like, that's, that's the plan. And like I said, I don't think it's gonna— I think it'll help our business overall.

Um, I think where it's going to help is the The team culture and feeling like you're all a part of something.

Culture.

That is like— it was just so interesting to talk to like members of the team. We're at 229 or 230 now today, which is crazy. Like we were at 160 like in December. And just like asking them like, hey, what do you think about this? And it was— there was no hesitation from a single person. Like They all want one. They want to work for one. They, they want to be a part of that big thing and be a part of the journey. So, uh, it was, it was cool how there's not many decisions that I feel like I get to make that are just like so fucking black and white. So it was fun that this one was like, oh, well, that's obvious. That was an easy— you know, I asked 10 people, they all said the exact same thing. That was an easy one. Knock that off the list. Yeah.

Yeah, yeah. I mean, and, and on the back end, right, I think that, that the creation of the brand and the ability to move forward with— like you said, it's $40 grand worth of trucks, but like everything else, like if we, if we want to go ahead and do again, uh, ads on, on, um, the radio in the next 6 months, like we don't have to create that copy.

Yeah, it's all done.

You already have that.

TV's done.

Oh, we're gonna give out pamphlets. You already have that. If I want to do door hangers, guess what? You guys already have that.

Yeah.

And so, like, the nice part is the ability to recycle all this material that, like, we would have to generate from scratch that's untested, doesn't work, blah, blah, blah, and do multiple iterations. And now, like, it's just easy. It's a button press rather than, like, hey, we need to record and get a graphic designer and, like, do A/B testing. Like, you don't have to do that anymore. And like, I think that's a huge part as you start to think about brand moving forward in an area where everybody else has giant brands. Um, because I've tried branding. The reason that we never did branding before is we just burned money.

Yeah, it's tough.

I honestly would have gotten more out of burning money. I would have been warm in the winter.

Um, I think it'd be nice to like, as I think about I think the size that we're at, like, we should not invest in the marketing capabilities that, like, would be fun to have. Like, we could do it, but I just don't think it'd be a good financial decision. I think we could do it at, like, 100 or 120. So, like, maybe in a couple years, let's go. But I think being able to Even take that another step further. Hey, if we, at the end of 2026, '27, do we have 10 locations and maybe $100 million of revenue at 10 locations? And okay, at that size, one person doing meta creative across 10 locations, $100 million of revenue, kind of makes a lot of sense. And really like pushing hard just on that one channel. Or like, I don't think that buying mass media makes much sense at $100 million yet, but maybe like $150 or $200 million where like that could just be someone's role is like distributing that across the markets we're in to drive density. But again, all easier with one brand. But I think like the further we get into the 9 figures, a lot of this starts to become easier and easier. Or just like more straightforward.

Well, the interesting part too is like geographically how you connect and get closer. So like Peterman Brothers, I think is a great example, is that their branches are all an hour, then you're an hour from that, and then you're an hour from that. And so you have this kind of spiderweb of branding effect that takes places as you kind of grow, like the brand grows, and then that actually grows the brand. And so that's what's exciting is the ability to like, hey, go up to eventually like Louisville. Or Elizabethtown, and they're like, oh, we know the Wilson brand because we've seen their trucks, because we have a spot in Bowling Green, we have a spot in Cincinnati. And so like you've naturally kind of brought branding through historically. So it'll be interesting to see that. That's, that's what I'm excited about is that would be kind of fun to watch that spiderweb out.

Yeah.

No, I think even though, even, even though the downside is it does have the name of like this one, this one guy that, you know, it's kind of a jerk sometimes. So he's a little bit of a turd on the internet. Yeah.

Um, I agree. Uh, how do you want to wrap this?

Oh, I don't know, man. I think we'll have to circle back on this one after it's done, which would be kind of cool.

It wasn't shitty.

Yeah, a couple months away from each other, circle back and we'll see how it goes.

Make some quality LinkedIn posts.

Here's what Jack messed up on his rebrand.

Okay, it wasn't going to be a dunk. It was more like, here's like, hey, hey, Wilson's in Nashville, or what, you know. I feel like that would, that would also help to drive like Like, oh, this is moving. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

But yeah, the fun, the fun little note, the most recent update from this past week, we went from 1 to 5 locations in under 6 months, and 5 is officially the largest amount of branches that I've ever personally run. So we are— so I don't know if that's a good record or a bad record for me. It is going to consolidate back to 4, like we're going to combine 2 of them. But for about 90 days, we have 5.

Yeah, that's so cool. That's so wild. And like, as somebody who, who went under that, that umbrella, the wheels have not fallen off the bus. They have not. Like, like I was expecting— I know, dude, the amount of crazy of, uh, damage that I was expecting. We had this conversation, and I know now we're talking about acquisitions, not branding, but like you and I were talking about, hey, are we sure we should do this, this one in Fort Wayne? Because like it's going to take a lot of your attention, John. And like you You got Rapid, you're gonna be like getting this business and you have that one you just bought. Like, dude, you can't take on Fort Wayne. You don't have enough time. And look at YOLO'd. It's thriving.

I YOLO'd.

You did. You're like, ah, do it, let's go. Yeah.

Like, was it a good decision? I don't know. Did I do it? Yes.

Yeah. Time will tell. Um, but it didn't, um, didn't blow it up. It didn't, it didn't blow it up, not even close.

So yeah, it is, it is kind of interesting. Um, a tremendous amount of growth this year. I like more than 50%, uh, almost, almost more than 70, 80, uh, I don't know, I'll have to do the math on that. But like, I think right now run rate's $45 million, if I— from what I remember. Um, Which, that's a lot. And, uh, so we officially did skip over the 30s. Um, thought through it. Now, you know what's kind of funny is there, there's another deal that, um, I'm— and I've been talking to these guys for years, and, uh, I'd love— I'd— they, they want to come on and I want to, I want to bring them on. It would put us mid-50s, so like, I could hopefully— Skip the 30s and 40s.

There you go. Straight from 20 to 50.

Yeah. Crazy. Crazy. All right. Well, before I ramble anymore, if you like what you heard, make sure you check out ownandoperate.com. Hit that like button. Make sure you sub. We are constantly dropping shit like this. And check out Jackquisitions, newly christened Top 150 US Business Podcast. Thanks, everyone. Thank you.