Building, Scaling, and Selling Home Service Businesses (Supercut)

What's up everybody? It is John Wilson from Owned and Operated. Over the course of January, February, and March, we are acquiring a couple businesses. So we're a few weeks into January, we've already bought 2, we're about to bring on our 3rd. So I'm super busy. And because of that, we are gonna be— our recording schedule's a little bit messed up. So we have some supercuts of some of my favorite moments. Also stay tuned as we start dropping more information about the deals that we're doing and how we're thinking about acquisitions.

Was that always the plan with Gettle?

Was, I mean, it sounds like it probably was because it was your 6th one.

So you had a sort of a roadmap of, hey, I'm going to build this and then transact at some point. I know for folks like me, that's a, this is our first one. So I think for us, that journey's starting to come where it's like, okay, I think we'll have to bring on money at some point. But when I set out, I didn't have it in mind that it would be an exit. So how did you think about that from the get-go?

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You know, I had been in it all my, all my life. I bought the Bought a business when I was 25. I started going, like I said, a couple of years in, I got, you know, I got notified by the IRS I didn't pay my payroll taxes. And I said to the IRS, the agent, I said, what's payroll taxes? Because I was so green, I didn't even know. And, you know, that kind of set me on the journey. And so I made a business plan at that point because at that point, I was in a really tough situation, but I really couldn't get out of it because you can't discharge payroll taxes in bankruptcy if you went bankrupt, for instance, and you can't— and I owed people money that I bought the business from.

Yeah.

And so, I was like, okay, well, I can't be the stooge that just fails in 2 years, so I have to gut this out and figure it out. So, I wrote a plan and the plan was Like, okay, I got to get through this. I'm going to get through this and I'm going to build a business and I'm going to sell it. And I made the plan of what you have to do to sell it. You got to have a management team. You have to have some steady revenues and profits, things like that. And then I said, no, I was a young guy, like I was 26 or something. I said, I'm going to sell for $1 million. You know, that was my goal, $1 million. $1 million. And I thought that was all the money in the world. But anyway, so I end up, you know, we put it together and, you know, I figure out I create my EMIS system and then I start buying either broken, bankrupt— well, broken, bankrupt, or HVAC businesses, businesses where the guys are retiring, guys retiring or struggling. Even old phone numbers from, uh, you know, from companies that shut down or going to shut down. I'd gather up these phone numbers and I'd put them into the mix, and I started scaling my business by buying these inexpensive broken businesses. And, and I became good at it because I had fixed my own business, and I figured out what the process is to to build a business system and I documented it. And so, it was easy for me just to go ahead and start organizing these companies and putting the routines in. I had the plan to sell and then I started building them up and I got to where I had 3 locations when I was about 30 years old in Las Vegas. And that's when ARS— are you familiar with ARS, American Residential Services? No.

Yeah.

Okay, so that's when ARS was born. And, um, they came to me and said, hey, what, you know, why don't you join our, join, uh, our roll-up? You can be a founding member. And so, you know, I was one of the, I don't know, 5, 6 guys who got it started, and then we built it. And I got— at that point, the business was worth a lot more than $1 million. I think I got, you know, maybe 5, 6 times that, but I went out and I executed my plan. So I was— I'm in my early 30s and I sell the business to ARS and I'm in that world for a while. And so I had hit my goal. I wanted to build it and sell it and go figure out something else to do because I hadn't done anything else all my life. I thought maybe I wanted to be a, you know, stockbroker or something cool where you wore a suit and, you know, That kind of life.

Mm-hmm.

But when I got into— when I— when ARS bought us, I got into— I was very fortunate that I was able to get involved with these guys who knew a lot more than I did about business and a bigger scale business. By that time, I knew how to build an HVAC business system and a nice, uh, high-performing business, but I really didn't understand how to do multi-branch very well and And M&A very well. And, you know, real M&A, not just buying broken stuff, right? And so I worked there for a few years and I got a really good education there. And so I said, you know what, I'd really enjoy this. I enjoy now— because I'd be traveling around doing acquisitions and I'd see guys who did a lot better than I did, and I'm like, oh, I could have done that. Oh, I could have done that. I should have done that.

Mm-hmm.

And so it reinspired me. So I decided back in 2000 to do it again. So I decided at that point, I'm in the business building business. I'm not in the HVAC plumbing business. I build businesses and I sell them because I kind of like this whole deal where you, you know, you sprint for 3, 4, or 5 years and then you sell it for 10, 15 years of profits. a nice little chunk of money, right? And I like just, I just like the idea of kind of being my own private equity shop. So that's what I did. And so I did the first one, did the second one in Vegas and Phoenix called YES Air Conditioning Plumbing, and, you know, various ones along the way.

Yeah.

And at one point, one point after I sold YES to ARS, I was a regional VP or division VP, they called it. And they gave my team and I 7 businesses to fix for them and a big reward for that. So, you know, we put the team together and we just executed, just execute my plan on building a business system, get it implemented, get the right team in place, get them focused and start driving results. So then I became the president of ARS for a while. So I was the president of this national company. You know, I'm a guy, kid started in an AC van fixing air conditioners. Now I'm the president of this, you know, $600 million business, national business. And, uh, you know, learned a lot more. I, you know, every time I had these opportunities to get with these bigger guys, I really picked up some new knowledge that, you know, most of us from the industry like yourself who, You're no different than me. You came from a family business. You're just not going to be able to experience it.

Not fully.

Yeah. Yeah.

My hope, you're describing what I hoped my post-life, my post-exit life would look like where, how do I, yeah, the money's great, but how can you learn something interesting that, when would be another chance you'd get to go work somewhere with 200 locations. And, you know, how else do you get that? So yeah, that sounds like amazing. That sounds like what I hope my post-exit life looks like. Yeah. You know, get paid to learn somewhere for 5 years and then go do it again. That sounds like fun.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So that's, that's all I've been doing. And then, and so on this last deal with Gettle, we, we really rung the bell in a big way. You know, we had a very industry-leading exit.

Yeah.

And then I said, well, what's next? But I had this team, this business development team that I've created over the years who knows, we attack leadership, management, money, marketing, lead generation, lead conversion, client fulfillment. We attack client fulfillment. We attack every chunk of the business right there. We get the processes documented, get into training, start training our people, start Recruiting the team, getting the financial understanding of the operation, and keep going. So anyway, I sold the business in '21, and then I stayed as a CEO for '22. And then it was a planned— me planned retirement from HVAC. So they brought in their new CEO, and then I went off, and my team and I, we started attacking the standby generator industry. So I've been in that for— end of the year will be 2 years. So it's 2 years now and we've had— we put together 4 locations: Dallas, Houston, Tampa, and South Carolina. Yeah, we're off to the races. We acquired $14 million in revenue and we'll wrap up about $50 million with the same store growth this year.

Is there a Goliath store, or are they roughly equal? 50 million generators is a lot. I know, that's a lot of generators.

Yeah. Well, obviously our 2 big stores are Houston. You know, Houston's the number one standby market in the country. And then Tampa is our second.

But as you're thinking about this, so your— Gettle was your 6th Industry-leading exit. As you're thinking of, and your whole life was sort of this HVAC building and selling HVAC businesses, maybe like a flair of plumbing in there too. But there was always like a buyer, like, because you knew the buying landscape. How do you think about that for standby generators? Because it doesn't seem like the buying, I just don't know. So I'm looking for education, but It doesn't seem like the buying landscape is as straightforward as HVAC.

Well, look, PE is all over Main Street. Every, every business there is, you know, they're looking for opportunities. And, and yes, they're there. I, I can't help but think that, um, you know, when I got in, when I got into generators last year, there was one PE shop that had a meaningful business they had rolled up, was starting to roll up, and it's a nice— they have a really nice thing going. But as soon as I got in and started talking about it, um, and I don't know if this is because I was talking about it or because just, uh, the natural things have happened, but, uh, there's been a lot more PE involvement. So there's a lot more, uh, competition for the businesses in the generator space today. I would say probably there's 5, 6 PE shops sniffing around it.

Yeah.

And then I get calls every single day from other PE shops that want to partner and See how they can get involved with it. But I want to get it, you know, we're going to get a little bit beefier.

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It's— I'm, I'm trying to learn every day about how to be a better leader. Um, there's so many things that I'm not good at, and I, I know I need to work on. Um, one of those things is I communicate pretty well with enough of our team, but at this level, most of the people don't ever see me. Most of our teammates don't see me enough.

I mean, you probably work with like 6 people.

Yeah. I mean, yes. And people at our corporate office, I see. I try to pop into our companies every now and then. So, you know, that stuff helps. But there's certainly a lot of areas to improve when you're highly distributed. Like this, we have over 30 offices all over. And one of the areas I'm excited to improve on is to bring more communication deeper into the organization.

Yeah.

And show them I'm excited for what they're doing and that I, I don't speak to them enough, but I care about what they're doing.

Yeah.

And so there, there is areas for improvement. I'm willing to admit we got— we've grown so fast, we don't have a good internal way to do that.

Yeah.

LinkedIn is one of the ways I do that. I try to be pretty active on there. We've got about a third of our workforce on LinkedIn, or at least connected to us somehow through our companies or through me. And yeah, there's a lot to improve upon when you're that big because it's never perfect, it feels like.

Yeah, that'd be a lot. And that's a complicated problem. I mean, Chad Peterman from Peterman Brothers started a podcast. It was an internal podcast. He later ended up publishing live, but that was his original goal. I think there are 10 or 12 locations now. And it was the same thing. They're distributed. I see these guys once a month. How do we still spread culture? How do we talk about what I'm doing? How do we talk about Jimmy's amazing 5-star review? How do we still do the small but really important stuff?

Spot on. I love the podcast idea. We're exploring a few other mediums. What's also pretty cool is some of our companies have already got mechanisms where they do it within their company already.

Yeah.

And so, most of the companies have some sort of connection already, at least to their Which is probably what matters the most.

Yeah, I would imagine, like, the people you see every day eye to eye.

I, I would agree. I want our teams in the field to know they're part of a local organization that cares about them. I care about them deeply, but I don't get a chance to see them all the time. Yeah, so the leadership in whatever local organization or OPCO it really matters to me that that person takes this seriously as well.

Yeah.

And I get to see them more. Like, we're all going to be together next week. 50 or 60 people from around the company are flying in that all run P&Ls and are local leadership. And we're building that culture twice a year. See each other at least 4 times a year for various things. But this meeting is a real culture We focus on culture there so they can go back and at least impart some of the care that we have for them through them as the leader that's locally there.

Yeah. Can you walk me through a little bit of the org structure? So there's 30 locations. Each one has a branch president or branch GM or something. What's the smallest location? What's the biggest?

It's a range. We've combined kind of some of the smaller ones. So really when you look at the small ones, they're like $15 million roughly.

Yeah.

Our biggest ones in the high $200s.

Yeah.

So there's a range.

Yeah, it's big range.

But what we've done is we've created divisions. So we have 5 divisions. We have a West Division, a Northeast Division, a Southeast Division, an Industrial Division, and a service organization. The service organization's national, industrial's national. Those other 3 are regions of the US. And so we have leadership in those divisions as well as key team members for those divisions as well. HR leader, recruiting, finance, safety, service for each division.

Okay. And these are like regionalized departments?

Yeah, for the 3 that are regionalized, they're regionalized. The other 2 that are national have kind of a customer focus, an industrial customer focus. There's an HR leader for that. There's a finance leader for that. There's a couple operations leaders. There's a leader and a VP. And so we've Developed a, um, a part— we've sized part of our business so they're all roughly the same size.

Yeah.

And they all can, um—

Like they each have roughly the same headcount, like total reporting, is that what you meant?

Roughly.

Okay.

Roughly.

Yeah.

And revenue and profitability and everything like that. So the leaders that run those divisions are running a sizable business with the local leaders that are boots on the ground.

Yes. Okay.

And we think that's relatively new for us. Not that long ago, it was me and my partner everywhere.

Yeah. I mean, I'm listening to what you're saying and I'm like, the org, the amount of changes you must have made in a 5-year period to nail down org structure and still a moving target because you're still acquiring companies. But Yeah, it'd be a lot. I mean, I just think about what we've done in a one-location, you know, not that big business, and we've gone through a lot. I, you know, I'm trying to envision that over 30 locations.

It's, it's super interesting because when we started, I was the president CEO of one opco.

Yeah. And that, that the one, the first one in Arizona.

Okay.

That, that was My job was to survive. Yeah, collecting payments from customers, getting business, hiring, firing. And, and that business, when we bought it, didn't even have a website.

Okay.

So we, we've learned, we've, we've had to evolve constantly. Yeah, I mean, I, I came from Walmart. I was an executive at Walmart before I came over to this job, and it was It was a culture shock because I got used to the big company benefits. Post a job, you get 10, 100, 200 people applying for that job.

Yeah.

Come to this little opco with no website, no social media presence, nobody hardly knows who they are, but they still do $17 million per year of revenue.

Yeah.

And I would post a job for a project manager, And no one would apply. Literally no one would apply. I remember, I remember getting a guy to— I talked to him on the phone and he was going to come in. I was going to interview him. He was going to come in. And I remember sitting in the lobby for an hour after the time that he said he was going to be there thinking, oh, he's going to show up.

Yeah.

He's going to show up. Never showed up. Literally multiple times this happened to me. So there was a lot of learnings. When you talk about org, I mean, that was like my challenge not that long ago.

Yeah.

To now what we're dealing with, it's just a totally different environment.

Do you think this is easier?

For me?

Yeah.

Way easier.

Yeah.

A million times easier.

Yeah.

Yeah, I would, I would imagine so. So we're getting ready to go multi-location, and likely multi-state will be our first, like, new location. So, like, as I'm thinking about— I'm, I'm thinking about the next 6 months of my life, and I'm, you know, I'm thinking about the last 5 years of yours, and how I think about org structure. Like, what should I be doing every day? I'm not as in the weeds as you were, but, like, Not long ago, like 3 years ago.

You probably were.

Yeah, totally.

At some point.

Yeah.

In 2022, I was helping pick up the phone because we accidentally turned over our whole call center. Like, you know. Yeah.

So you do what you have to do.

You do what you got to do. But yeah, I'm thinking about that and I'm thinking about all of the decisions that you've probably gone through, like what should be centralized, what should be decentralized. And what I seem to have landed on in theory, but obviously I haven't executed on anything, is like Well, centralize almost nothing. Because the more I centralize, the harder my life is going to be because then I have to frankly do more versus people want to know, they want to be eye to eye with the people in their branch. That's who matters to them. I don't matter to them in Cleveland if somebody else is in Pittsburgh. Nobody gives a shit about Jon, right? And they shouldn't give a shit about me. I'm not in their life very much.

Right, right.

Yeah.

Difficult thing to say what it should be for you guys or even for us, 'cause it's a moving target a little bit. But I do highly believe in empowered decentralized teams to a degree. They should have autonomy to make certain decisions. They should have autonomy to drive the P&L.

Yeah.

And are there things that that person wants to do? And are there things that that person doesn't want to do? And I think the decisions of what corporate does is going to be unique for each individual in each company. But I think generally speaking, the person that's going to drive the best P&L for you doesn't want to manage insurance.

Yeah.

And doesn't want to manage for us bonding and yeah employee renewal you know insurance renewals and a lot of the back office stuff so yeah so there is parts of this that I that I think you can get to where a new branch probably we want them to be empowered but we don't want them to be Bogged down. Completely bogged down with the overhead stuff that doesn't drive any revenue or profit.

Yeah. For too long, I was letting the wrong marketing agencies set my money on fire, and their marketing looked pretty good on paper. The reporting was attractive, but at the end of the day, it just wasn't driving leads. That's why I started using Service Scalers at Wilson. Service Scalers is a marketing agency built specifically for home service companies. They focus on the channels that actually drive leads, like targeted PPC, local service ads, SEO, Google Business Profile, so that you're showing up in front of your customers that are actively searching. They'll help you see exactly what's working so you stop wasting ad dollars on low-quality leads. Right now they're doing something crazy and they're giving the opportunity for one entrepreneur to get up to 12 months of marketing on them. So that's up to $100,000 in services for the right operator. If you are serious about tightening up your marketing in 2026 and want to see what this could look like for your business, go to servicescalers.com and book a free strategy call and let them know that I sent you.

And I think you, you are correct. Um, I think you have to change your mindset when you think about hiring technicians in a smaller area because it's the long game. It's always going to be the long game. And I would much rather Pick up somebody who's got soft skills and train them, take the time to train them on the service system and all the ways that we do diff— you know, do business differently than try and take a seasoned person who has, you know, junk for skills talking with the customer. That I can't— I mean, I can try, but we've learned over and over again. It doesn't work. You have to have those skills. So I think for us, we just kind of figured out along the way that invest, you have to invest in the people. And does that take a lot more time than you're talking about? Yeah, it takes a heck of a lot more time. But I think that we find they're more apt to stay longer because we've invested.

Mm-hmm.

so much into them and built that relationship. So, you know, we're not only building relationships with customers, but we're building relation— longstanding relationships with, with our employees as well. And I think it's just a different mindset to how, how you're going to hire.

Like, we're getting a lot of the people from factories or from trade schools coming in and applying from different industries. And we're just, you know, very open to that. And, and just like she said, they, they thrive in that freedom to be kind of creative. And when we just train in-house and, um, you know, on the technical side, and the customers, customers just love that.

Yeah. How many people are you, are you like training? And how long does it take, like 2 years, 1 year?

It can take 2. 2 years to fully train, sometimes 4, and it really depends on the individual. We've been using Nextech through Nexstar to train a lot of the green, super green people who come in. But, you know, it really depends on the individual. Like, I had an electrician who went through the entire Nextech program in 2 months.

Mm-hmm.

Which is Mind-blowing. That's a lot of content and a lot of videos and a lot of checkoff to make sure they know what they're doing. So it really just depends on the individual, on, on their capacity to learn at a faster pace. But somebody who already has the knowledge and you're really just working on refining their, their service system, and— How long would you say for that?

6 months. Yeah, it's, you know, it's really tough because you're trying to plug in a person into a, into a department and you want them to get, be productive and, and be able to bring revenue in, in the shortest amount of time, right? And, and that's, that's not—

It's not always ideal.

Yeah, it's not ideal. I mean, you got to think, think out 6 months. So we've went to a little bit different model on our staffing, and, and I don't know that we have anybody Maybe a couple of HVAC technicians, but most everybody has a trainee that's in their truck right now. So we're just trying to get ahead of that curve on the staffing.

It's something that I think once you get it in your head that you have to constantly be hiring and constantly be training all the time, like all the time, it's just something that you have to do to maintain that steady stream. of individuals coming in for— to, to build them all up to be that, um, that revenue-producing tech. It's just a constant have-to.

Yeah.

And especially now, I mean, there's less and less coming in to the trades. And I, you know, I, I have high hopes for, for the newer generations of, of realizing, you know, you can make a really good living not going to a 4-year college and you can just come right on into the trades and I'll welcome you with open arms. Like, come on in.

You've got the data on this because of your work with Explore the Trades.

Yes.

But like my— I'll give a vibe. So this is, you know, zero facts, all vibes over here.

Okay.

My vibe is that there are more and more young people joining the trades every day. I mean, TikTok, I think this was just on either Wall Street Journal or New York Times, but like, TikTok is driving like a trades revolution for exactly what you just said.

Yeah.

Hey, you wanna make $100 grand at 25 and you can buy a house and you don't need college debt. Like, that's a hell of a pitch.

It is. And I feel like it's finally getting heard because, you know, there's not, there's not, yeah, there's TikTok, but it's, it's finally getting, I feel like it went backwards. It's like it's, it's gotten from industry and finally into the schools and the schools are finally getting the point that, oh, oh, I don't have to tell them all they have to go to college. You know, because I mean, I could, I could almost quote, um, Mike Rowe, you know, for how many years have we been shoving it down everybody's throat that you have to go to a 4-year college? And you don't.

You know, a funny anecdote about my life, okay, is I was not a very good student, so I became a plumber, right? But I was not a very good student, and in junior of high school, I had a teacher that told me, hey, if you don't get your grades up, you're gonna end up being a plumber. And she was right. And she was right. But like, you know, here we are today, 160 employees later.

Don't you want to just walk into their office and be like—

No.

Really?

Like, no, I won. But I do, I do think it's, I do think it's funny because it's sort of like, yeah, yeah, it's the exact— I'm really glad that happened.

I, I have a similar Actual experience like that. My guidance counselor told me not to bother going to college because I'd never make it, and it's the exact opposite. I got my degree, and and here I sit. But they never would have. You know, I I just think the point is stop trying to push them in areas that they don't want to go.

Yeah.

You know, if they don't like school, they don't like you know doing what they're doing. If they want to explore other options, give them other options. I mean, I'm not a I'm not opposed to 4-year colleges. Obviously we need that for other trades. If you want a doctor, you're hoping they're going to be licensed.

Yeah.

So it has its place, but don't forget there's other areas, other conversations to be had about opportunities. Don't just shut the door. Don't even tell them the door exists. I mean, if you want to go down that rabbit hole, you can go down women in the trades and how That was unheard of. My grandfather actually ran the same type of business that we have. It was never ever brought up, ever. It never even occurred to him. He had 2 daughters.

Yeah.

And it never even occurred to him to ever pass down his information. It all died with him.

That's wild.

And it's sad, you know, all that knowledge that just went to the wayside. And, you know, quit assuming you know what's best for the kids that you have influence over and start asking more questions instead of, you know, this is what you need to do. Well, what do you want to do? What are you good at? You know, I think that's another conversation. What are you good at and where do you want to be? Because if you just tell them what they have to do, you know, they're going to go do that and then 4 years later they're going to have $200,000, whatever, $500,000 in debt and they're still going to be lost.

Yeah, I think we'll have a boom here shortly. I think it's already started, but I don't know how much of your business so far has been impacted by AI, but I mean, it's a thing. So I think the more that we see AI take over more of the jobs that were entry-level or even knowledge worker jobs, The next best earning is the trades. So I think it'll be interesting to see, Gen Z is already there with TikTok and like, hey, no college debt. Hey, a lot of money. There's a lot of good here. What happens when the 30 and 40-year-olds start getting displaced from jobs that were historically safe, but between offshoring and AI, they don't exist anymore? Do accounting jobs exist anymore? I think that That's a real question that I think most of the industry is trying to figure out. So yeah, I think we're— the next 5 years are going to be fascinating because we have Gen Z really coming into their own and a large portion of the country being displaced. And they got it. They got to put food.

I think that's a great opportunity.

Yeah.

You're talking about the 30 and 40-year-olds because the, you know, the young generation, the 20, you know, the 20-year-olds that are coming in, I mean, they have their own challenges of, of maturity and, and life skills that they don't have yet. Yeah, we, that we all have to deal with. So if I think about somebody that's in their 30s and 40s and have a lot of life skills, that would be a great transition into the trades.

Yeah, it would.

Yeah, no, I think so too. Yeah, I think so too.

Yeah, I don't, and I don't really have stats to back this up, but it sure feels like plumbing is going to be Really big.

The business? Yeah. Plumbing is plumbing is plumbing's great.

Yeah, plumbing's awesome.

Plumbing's great.

Um, it just feels like what's less AI-able.

I mean, that's a part of this too. Like there is already, uh, with the Google Glasses, like AI can diagnose, uh, furnace problems. So that is a part of the, is there a displacement there or likely less of a displacement and more, hey, we can onboard an HVAC tech in 30 days because AI does all of the work. Instead of, you know, years of experience now. Whereas plumbing, I think that feels harder. Like, AI is probably not going to drill a drain.