Mindset Matters: How W3 Electric in Rowlett, TX, Doubled Sales in Only 2 Years

Welcome to The Successful Contractor powered by CertainPath, a show for residential contractors about residential contractors. We chronicle business journeys, share insights, and celebrate successes in this wonderful industry. I'm your host, Bob Houchin. For more information on how CertainPath can put your contracting company on a certain path to success, visit our website, www.mycertainpath.com. I hope you enjoy today's show and take away a nugget or two.

Bill? Yes.

Thank you so much for being here. I greatly appreciate your time.

Glad to be here.

For those who have not had the pleasure of meeting you, could you share with everyone your name, your company name, and where you guys are located?

So I'm Bill Witte. I own W3 Electric. We're based out of Rowlett, Texas, which is East Dallas area.

We're talking for a great reason because let's see, when did you join us again?

About 2 and a half years ago.

2 and a half years ago. When you joined, you were doing what, $1 million?

About $1 million. Yeah.

$1 million.

And then you're looking this year at finishing About it? About $2.2 million.

About $2.2. That's great. Yeah, that's some big growth right there.

Yep.

And I know you said you've been investing a lot in the business. So did you get a new building or something like that?

So we moved into a bigger building last year and then we've been buying trucks, you know, getting ready and just growing and investing in our people. And yeah. Yep.

And you got a nice brand because the wraps look really nice. And so it takes a lot, you know, it takes money to make money, right? And you're You're investing in it right now.

Yep.

So that's great stuff. So anyways, a great success story. I'm looking forward to learning all about it before we dig into the nitty-gritty. I always love learning people's personal journeys. I think a lot can be learned from that. Yeah. So I know just from talking to people that knew— that know you, you originally were not in the trades. Well, you kind of were. You were flipping houses. Was that kind of the first gig you were doing as a young man?

So that was my most entrepreneur thing that I did. And I kind of did that while working a full-time job.

Oh.

So it wasn't a full-time job, it was what I did on the weekends and I would take time off work to do it during slow season, stuff like that. 'Cause I've always been in construction. So I actually grew up in a family business. My parents owned a siding and window company. My dad was a terrible business owner though, so I didn't really have good guidance. So from that I wound up transitioning and doing building maintenance. But Buying houses was like an investment thing that I always had in my mind of this is the way I'm going to raise above because everybody around me, you know, made minimal, you know.

So, so it was a goal of yours to take the next step above?

Yeah.

That's great. That's great. But at what point you're like, okay, whatever the— what was your full-time job on top of doing that? What were you doing?

Building maintenance. So I was a building maintenance person.

So you had that, you were doing flipping houses, and at some point you're like, I need a change, right?

Yeah. So I was in line to take my boss's position and he only made— when I asked him, he made $45,000 a year at that time. And I talked to a friend of mine who was an electrician. He's like, man, I'm making $70,000 where I am. Like, you take a down cut to be an apprentice, but this long term has got so much more potential.

Yeah.

So I made the transition and it was this friend of yours.

Did he work at Milestone or—

He did at that time.

Yeah.

All right.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, so for those watching or listening, they don't know. Milestone is a big part of our organization and a very large home service company in Dallas.

So, yeah.

So, all right. So you show up at Milestone, you're like, you interview with Sonya, who's a coach now. Yeah. At CertainPath. So what was she a little like? I don't know. You know, you kind of working for yourself and doing your own thing.

Well, you really want to switch gears a little bit because at that time they really didn't hire green people. So they were looking for people that were closer to getting their license. But I guess I made an impression because they hired me and they sent me to trade school and I did great and I really made an impression and just grew from there.

Yeah.

So how long were you with Milestone?

So I was there right at 7 years.

At 7 years?

Yeah.

Wow. Okay. So what finally made you go, you know what, I'm going to try and do this on my own?

So I've always had an entrepreneur mindset. And so just once I got my master's license, I just kind of felt that I needed to do something more. Yeah. So Milestone's a great company, but they still have their own ways of doing stuff and I just wanted to kind of make my own way of doing things.

Yeah.

No, you know which way you want to go. There's nothing wrong with that. And then Gus has been supportive of that, right?

He has.

He talked about it from stage, right? I think I heard you call you out.

He goes, yeah, he's such a great inspiration. Yeah.

So he's a neat guy. Yeah. All right. So how long were you working kind of on your own before you tagged up with us?

About a year. About a year. Okay.

And then what was, you know, what was the decision to go ahead and join an organization and kind of—

Gus said, I remember this, he said, hey, everything I do, I didn't make up myself. This company taught me how to do it. You should do this. And when Gus says that, you listen. So, right, it inspired me. So I went to the, the thing where y'all like talk about Profit Day. Profit Day.

Yeah. Yeah.

And then from there I was hooked. I was like, wow, there's actually people that train on how to do this.

Right. So you joined, you said you went to Business Line in 2019, right?

Yes.

Okay. And then you joined. So when we were—

so I don't know the exact date, but I would guess the end of either the beginning of 2021 or end of 2020.

Okay. Yeah. So because originally before we hit record, I was like, oh, you started business end of 2019 and then poof, here's, here's a pandemic.

Yeah.

There's all these challenges already to start a business and you had that.

Yeah.

What was that? What was that like?

So when the pandemic first hit, man, it tanked. We went down to no calls, no nothing, you know, basically shut everything down.

Yeah.

And at that time I was the only employee, so that made it a little bit easier. Well, I had an apprentice, but then within 6 months later it did the opposite, it spiked.

Right.

And then when you start to grow and you start to invest and stuff like that, you need to have some leadership. And so that's why I mostly joined CertainPath. Yeah.

Well, before I lose sight of this, I wanna talk about the name of your company 'cause I think it's really cool.

Yeah.

So it's W3. Can you share with everyone what What's, you know, the meaning behind it?

Yeah, so the W3, a lot of people ask me this, but the W3 stands for an idea of creating a 3-win scenario. And I got this idea from Milestone 'cause they talk a lot about win-win. But I also got it from reading a book called How to Win Friends and Influence People when I was thinking about starting my business. And they talk a lot about creating a win-win scenario. So I wanted to embed that in what we do. It also, the W, my last name is Whitty, so the W works. But it's a 3-win scenario for us is a win for our customers, a win for our employees, and a win for our community by always giving back to those who support us.

I love it. That's great. That's great. All right. When you joined, where— how many trucks were you rolling at that point?

I must have hit— I probably had 2 or 3.

2 or 3 going. Okay. So you had— you get some momentum going, you know, you're like feeling good about things, but I'm like, I need to take a step forward.

Yeah.

So we go to Executive Perspective, you know, the fire hose meeting. Yep. Well, hey, at least it's close to town, close to home, right? So that's nice. Yeah. So what was that week like for you?

It was great. My wife went with me and we were just so inspired. So, you know, book full of notes of of what we need to do because we knew we were— I knew the general premise of what we're doing because I worked for a company that did that. But how to fine-tune it, make processes and procedures like that wasn't my strong suit. Still isn't. But I'm much better at it, you know, with certain paths and stuff like that.

Yeah, well, that's why you surround people that are good at that too. You can't be great at everything. I don't— I haven't met a single business owner that's great at everything. And obviously there's a lot of big ones in our organization.

So.

Yep. So when you, when you walk out of EP, what are like 2— did you have 2 or 3 things you're like, We need to start working on these immediately. I'm sure you maybe had a list, but you can only do a couple of things at a time.

So starting off is probably enforcing the pricing guide and enforcing doing safety checks because I wasn't hard on my people. I mean, I was just trying to get by. So at that time I still run a truck and then had my guys as well. But yeah, really fine-tuning it to make sure that we're giving the best, best job for our customers.

Right. So what does that mean then? Were you going back and start training? Every day, or was it just being accountable? Hey, did you do this? I saw notice on the ticket. You closed it, and I didn't see options on it. So how did you kind of reinforce that to get people to do it?

Yeah, it's talking. You know, just talking with your guys. You know, telling them. And at that point, I was in a truck, so it's it's showing them what I'm doing. It's hard to have trainings when you're running a truck too. Yes.

Yeah.

But you know, just touch base with the guys each day, and and that's that's the start. Okay. Just talk about it.

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All right. So increasing accountability, making sure they're doing the options and the inspections. What are some other core changes you're like, okay, we need to start doing that?

So from there, it's a mindset. So I didn't implement the— I actually waited to implement our membership program. Okay. I waited about 6 months to a year from there. Yeah. And it really took me a while to get on board because my guys didn't have that mindset. They, they— when you're first starting off, you know, you kind of have whatever's available kind of mindset. Yeah. And then it just takes a while to start changing that mindset to see the big picture. Yeah. But about 6 months later, I knew I needed to do a membership program. So like, we didn't have 2-tier pricing. We had a pricing guide, but no 2-tier.

Yeah.

So about, I'd say, man, it might have been a year later we started doing the membership pricing. I'm so glad I did because now that we're going through a little bit of a hiccup timeframe in the economy, man, we have— we already have I'm not sure how many members, but it's helped so much.

Yeah. Yeah. It balances out the board when there's not those calls coming in.

It does.

What?

Well, let's see.

Let's talk about your membership for a minute just so people can understand how you guys construct it to, you know, share with us the benefits of your club.

Gotcha. So with the membership program, you get electrical tune-up once a year. We come out, we tune up the breaker panel, make sure everything's tight in there. We do a home safety check where we test all your safety items. In addition to that, we change your smoke detector batteries. Nice. We even do a little visual check on your attic, make sure your attic lights work and make sure there's no signs of rodents, stuff like that. And then we actually added this year to change, to clean your exhaust fans. Oh, that's just like an extra little touch. Yeah, because there was an apartment that caught fire due to an exhaust fan last year. I follow a lot of fire departments and that was a trigger for me. So I was like, we need to mention this too.

I was gonna say, is your team using that as a way to sell it then? They are.

Yeah. So it's an additive thing. And additionally, so none of my guys enjoy changing exhaust fans. So I was like, hey, if we can make them a lot longer, I like it.

You got to, got to come to use the psychology a little bit. Yep. Yeah. But how do you— what do you charge for your club membership? And is it monthly, annual?

So we do— it's $14.99 a month. We'll probably raise it this next year.

But we do—

we aim for monthly. We do have the yearly option. The yearly is $199. So slightly more to do yearly. And then—

They're paying though.

Yeah. Because then you got to do your follow-ups and stuff like that. And that's how I explain to the customers why it's cheaper. Because look, For, for our— on our end, it's less work if you do monthly. Plus it's actually better marketing too, because they see that on their bill, you know, once a month they see your name versus out of mind, out of sight, forget about it.

Right, right. So, so when you changed, you changed your mindset on the club, it took a minute, right? Because you said it wasn't originally something you could— you kind of wrapped it. Was it just because you didn't feel like pushing against the guys to figure it out, or was there something with you that you're like, okay, I get the value of it?

A little bit of both. So when I was at Milestone, they had other services, they had plumbing, they had AC. So there felt like more value in it.

Yeah.

So it took me a little bit to fully feel the value myself just doing electrical. And then in addition to that, it is like when you're first starting off and you're hiring people and you're trying to train them, there's so much that you kind of have to pick your fires. You know, what's the most important one? And that didn't feel as important. But as I grew, I started feeling the importance when I started having slow seasons, you know, offseason, stuff like that, that I was like, man, membership to this would be nice to do right now.

You know, it's fine. I, I had the same mindset when we rolled out club memberships in electrical years and years ago.

Yeah.

How do you— and then you start talking to electricians, you realize all the components and things you guys touch that impact people's safety.

Yeah.

You know, and how they can deteriorate over time. Right. I think I'd pay someone to do it for a club membership just to change my batteries out because I always forget to do it.

Right.

So but there's a, there's a lot of benefit in it. How did you eventually get your guys on board with it then? What did— what was it, a series of meetings? Did you have a meeting and, you know, had an exercise where they finally got the value, or was it just they got tired of you talking about it and they gave in?

So admittedly, it's still an ongoing process.

Yeah.

But it's— so you do have a little incentive. So if they sell it, they do the monthly one, they get like a $30 bonus. If they do the yearly, a $10 bonus. And then it's kind of I still got to do more training on the tune-up so that they get better at that. But it's kind of just inspiring when they start seeing one guy do it and then another guy does it. It just starts to grow. But so it's really just mentioning it.

And when they do the tune-up or the inspection, do they use a form and should be able to show the customers the value of it?

We do. So we have a form. It's kind of like our safety check that we do in there, but more extensive. There's more stuff on it. And then, and really what it is, when you start getting a sales-minded guy that, that really sees the value in the safety stuff, versus a guy that just part changes, he starts inspiring the rest of the team because he does it. So he's the one that follows up behind, hey, I would do a safety visit and did $3,000, you know? And then the other ones start seeing more value in it when they see that constant.

Is it color-coded?

The red?

Yeah, is it red, yellow, green?

It is.

Okay, yeah.

Yeah, when we first started, we just had 2 colors, green and red. But that yellow is really needed. And that helped my techs too, 'cause they felt like they could give them—

It's a hard decision.

Where does it go?

Exactly.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

They felt like they weren't forcing a person to see red only. Kind of thing, right? So they gave them a middle option, right?

How about how have you worked with your guys on building options? I know that's— I talked to a lot of operators. It's, it's a challenge because you get some guys that are just like— I call home run hitters. They're like, we're going to do a $30,000 option. The middle option's $200. And then this is the service fee only, the last option. So how have you trained them to not do that? You know, because that scares off homeowners. They're like, what is the deal with all this?

Yeah.

How do you build Teach them to build strong options.

So, so giving a minimum option is a must. Like, like that's a real strict thing for us. Um, and so we, we, we, our service manager reviews the debriefs and looks for if they didn't give them a minimum option. Um, another thing we started doing, and this I kind of got from a tag group, is, is doing a check-in between each call and kind of basically doing a debrief with them. And that was a huge thing we just implemented this year, but it's been a major help. It takes a lot more time, but that's part of the strengthening your team. Yeah. And it's well worth it.

Have you— I'm assuming you have financing as an option now, especially as things are getting more— a little tighter. I know interest rates are high, but still, when people need stuff, they need it.

Yeah, for sure. You have to have financing.

So is everything presented at a financed price?

Everything over about $1,500.

Okay.

We want to see some kind of as low as this much per month.

Right, right, right. Has there been a certain financing product that's working well for you guys nowadays?

So GreenSky is what we're using most right now. Yeah, we use Synchrony. So like GreenSky started during COVID kind of went— and I learned this from CertainPath, but, but now I think GreenSky is better than Synchrony right now. So it kind of goes back and forth.

You got to have partners to compare them against, right? Yeah. Okay. Some of, some of the other core things before I get too deep into some other weeds. But, you know, when you joined, were you— who was answering the phones? Like, the phone's a big part of an operation, right? So when you were small then, so Were you answering the phones back then?

I was.

All right. So how'd you rip that Band-Aid off?

So eventually you just get to a size where you're like, look, I got to have someone. Yeah. And then you're looking for that someone and, you know, you're planting seeds and letting people know. And then that certain one walks through the door and you're like, okay, let's do this.

Yeah.

And then you got a whole new slew because before that we didn't have an office. I actually had parts delivered to my driveway, my garage. I cleared it out and we made it a parts place. Sure, though. But once you have a call taker, then you kind of need an office.

Yeah.

So we initially did an office share. We only did that for like a month or two and then we got an office. And then from then it was next level because I also knew with that I wanted to draw electricians that have a great mindset. They're not going to be— those type of electricians are going to be drawn to my garage. They're going to be drawn to an office with a, with a sign that knows it's a stable company.

Yeah.

So we were like, we got to invest in an office. Right, right, right.

Yeah, I want to talk about well no let me let me pivot sorry numbers numbers is something that we always talk about right knowing your numbers you have a technical background you know you're technician by trade yep numbers isn't always something they gravitate towards I'm certainly not a numbers person I talk for a living so yeah what how did you kind of you know start learning what KPIs were I mean I'm sure you had some experience maybe with milestone you knew what you're you know you had certain milestones to hit.

Correct.

But yeah, I mean, how did that evolve with CertainPath in terms of, you know, knowing your numbers and how to build, you know, P&Ls and all that good stuff?

I get a lot of coaching.

All right.

Yeah, that's what we're here for. So I'm good at math, I'm good at numbers, but data is not my strong suit.

Sure.

So it's analyzing that data and taking it, taking it to the next level. So you analyze it more and more and more. But the more people I have on my team, the more time I have for that.

Right.

So that's kind of the pushing for growth is an investment. And sometimes you hire someone, they're not the right fit.

Yeah.

And then you get someone else. But you got to be so adaptive as an owner to be able to fill in that shoe when it's not the right fit and then step off that shoe when it— when someone is the right fit.

Now, you said before we hit record, you see here up to right, let's say you're at 7 trucks right now.

We are.

And so at some point you pulled yourself out of the truck because you're like, I got to get out, right?

I did.

And it You know, it's a struggle for a lot of guys. I've been doing this a long time and they're like, you know, I have this technician mindset. I like seeing my customers. You know, they enjoy that. But to grow a business, you can't be in the truck. So when were you able to finally pull yourself out of the truck?

So about 3 trucks is when I could start to be out of the truck majority of the time. I was still going out in the field, you know, fixing problems, handling customer concerns and doing training when they were having issues with the troubleshooter or something like that. But To be 100% out of a truck, I would say when I hired a service manager. Okay. Did that right about 5 or 6 trucks. Okay.

So at least my next question. So that's, that's great. So that was your first, you know, manager that you brought on.

Yep.

What was his or her background?

He's an electrician. So he actually worked at Milestone. Okay. Which admittedly, in the DFW Metroplex, if you hire an electrician that has any experience in residential, they've worked at Milestone.

I understand. Yeah.

Yeah. They have such a great recruiting, but I didn't hire him from Milestone. He worked somewhere else and then eventually came over.

But you guys had known each other?

Correct. He actually worked for— he was, he was in the field first.

Okay.

And then we hit a point where it was really my wife that said, look, you got to get a service manager. She's like, you're working too much.

She knows.

Yep.

Yeah.

You got to listen to your people. Yeah.

Especially those people. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

So we put him in a service manager position and just kind of winged it in the beginning. And now he's got a good structure and he's doing great.

So his role is he's, he's touching base with the technicians after every call. He's watching tickets, making sure they're doing everything they need to be doing.

Yep. And he does a ride-along once a week. So once a week I become service manager because I take the phones, stuff like that. So he can do training once a week in the field.

Okay. Is he doing the training at the office then too?

He's not. So sales was not his strong suit.

He's—

and that's fine.

Great electrician. He troubleshoots anything over the phone. Yeah, but I still do the sales training.

Yeah.

No, you got to know where your people are. And that doesn't mean that's a bad thing. It just means you got to find someone else to do that.

Yep.

What other managers do you have with the team now? Is it primarily just the 2 of you in the office plus the fault taker?

So we have a call center manager and so she's also our dispatcher.

Okay.

So we have 3 people in the call center. So she's a rollover for calls and stuff like that. And then we have— I mean, the other people I call them managers kind of, but they don't really have people underneath them. So we have a marketing person now and we have an accounting person. And then an HR, which kind of like our— she's almost our general manager, but not quite there.

Right, right. Yeah. When did you start adding these people on? When did you know it was time? I mean, you know, is it just bit by bit? I mean, you've done a lot in not that long a period of time. I mean—

Yeah, I don't know. Sometimes you just feel like there's a need. It's really— so you wear all the hats, right? When a hat feels like somebody else could handle this better than I can because I'm too overwhelmed, and it's time to pass off that hat.

Right.

And so that's what you look for. You look for who can handle that hat better.

Right. What are these people's backgrounds? Where did you find them? I mean, you're inviting them to be a leader in your organization. So it's always a big question that comes up. So I always have to ask it to those.

Yeah, do it.

So yeah, what are those people's backgrounds?

My call center person, she's worked at a few different call centers and she's never been a manager, but she kind of worked her way up in our company. She was, she was our second call taker we ever hired. And kind of from there she graduated, she moved up. My marketing person's done miscellaneous stuff, but she did marketing for the company she worked at before. Our accounting person actually moved up as well. So she was somebody we hired for the call center, but she had such a fine-tuned eye for data and like analyzing it and stuff like that. So we were like, hey, do you wanna try this? And my wife was the accountant before that. And so my wife has an accounting background. And then our HR person, she's had an HR background. So you look for people that have a skillset better than you.

Yeah, that's great. On the, the, the young lady is your call center manager. So is she the one that's— she's dispatching to, you said?

Yes. Okay.

Yeah. So is she the one that sets the board in the morning or do you service manager and the 3 of you talk about it like where the guys are going or—

She mostly does, but she definitely confines in the, the service manager, especially when there's like a new tech.

Yeah.

So till she gets a feel for what his skill set is and where the dispatching for profit comes into play for him. Right. But once she— once they— she knows the people and their strengths and stuff like that, then she kind of takes it.

Yeah.

Yeah. Was she new to the industry? No, she's— she worked at a few different places.

Okay, so that helps knowing a little bit of the tech. You got to know a little bit of the technical.

It does. Yep.

All right. So you've got 7 trucks, so you've got 7 techs and apprentices as well with them?

We do. So we have 3 apprentices.

3 apprentices. That's great. Yep. So what were their backgrounds? Were these guys that came from other companies or were they green with you or—

So we try to limit only one green guy per company. I mean, at a time. Because they're so— because our techs, yeah, take so much effort.

It's a tough license.

It is. Yeah. So and then when we look for— we've— you learn stuff as you go. Sure. But we've hired green guys that had no experience in construction at all and hired guys that had good construction background. So like handyman or something like that. There's a huge difference in that. So that definitely is a leg up. But in general, we're looking for people to have a good year underneath their belt. Yeah, it's primarily what we're looking for. Right.

But And that's important, but obviously it's got to be the right person too. So what are you looking for in the type of person you hire?

It's really drive. That's what matters most. So they can, they can be the best electrician in the world, but if they, you know, like to take a break every 15 minutes, they don't have much value. So, and we know we're a growing company, so we appeal to that and then we want to keep that environment and that mindset.

How do you determine someone's drive in an interview?

Their eagerness. So do they show up early? When they talk, are they like, hey, I'm just here? You can kind of get a sense of feel. And admittedly, I'm still growing on this too. And I'm listening to the people around me.

Oh yeah, it's difficult.

Recruiting is difficult. Yeah. But Gus mentioned it today. It's not really what they do, what they get paid for, it's what they do for free. Meaning in their own lives, what are they doing in their spare time? What are they What do they do? You know, they volunteer. Do they do extra? Do they— are they involved in sports or they just go home and do nothing?

Yeah.

You know, kind of mindset.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the apprentices you have, do they get rotated through the technicians so they kind of get an idea how everyone does things differently or how do you manage them?

We do. So we kind of have tech levels. And so when a tech sells a big job, you know, the first available apprentice, they kind of pick their apprentices. Okay. But of course they're going to pick the more experienced ones.

Yeah.

And then when— if nobody needs all the apprentices, we send them with the more experienced techs. So very good.

You said you handle the training. What, what does your training look like on a weekly basis?

So we meet once a week during slow season. We might meet more than that. Yeah, but, but in general, we meet once a week no matter what. We'll go over any key concerns. And then from there we do role play. We do— we talk about, you know, what hiccups are you seeing in the field? You know, And like our, our closing rate was kind of down this summer. And so just start— we start hitting that.

Yeah.

And now we got that up. So you really look for your weaknesses and that's what you focus on.

So you talk numbers with the guys all the time?

Oh yeah. We have a scoreboard in there. We talk about where they're at, where they're sitting. Yeah.

Are they— now that you don't have to get too much in the details, but how are they incentivized? Is it hourly plus some incentive? Is it like a new comp plan or what do you guys do?

So we do the options so they can be hourly plus bonuses and their bonuses start when they hit about $8,000.

Okay.

And so that's my goal. Like in my training, I'm like, hey, I want everybody to hit their bonus every single week. So let's, let's get you there. And then they've really shown themselves. So we don't do commission-based right off the get-go. You got to kind of prove yourself because I've seen people that work their mind too much.

Yes.

And so they're not looking for what's best for the customer sometimes. So we make sure that they prove themselves, they're a good fit, stuff like that. And then If they do, then they can be commission-based. And commission-based, of course, is going to pay— have more pay potential.

Yeah.

Then— and it is— it's not 100% commission-based. It's more like a task item type of pay. Yeah.

What do you guys do to try and minimize callbacks? Right. That's that profit killer. So do you have any kind of system in place or is it just training? I know it may happen when you've got a young team. That's, that's, you know, as we're all— they do happen.

But— So warranties are a big deal that we focus on because that's one of the biggest callbacks. And it's also a disconvenience for our customers. We don't want want that. So, so, um, so honestly, what we found this year analyzing it was most of half our callbacks were from a guy doing a minor troubleshoot instead of a moderate. So I really pushed my training on always aim for that moderate troubleshoot, because with that moderate troubleshoot, if you go through everything on that circuit, you can guarantee it's not gonna have an issue.

Yeah.

But if you go replace a burned up GFCI and you don't know that this other plug is causing a short and that plug is causing that GFCI to burn up, Well, then now you get a warranty on that. So really push for that first and then go from there.

Do you think it's because they're afraid to charge the higher charge?

They are. It's a confidence thing. So, right. My top guys, you know, they don't have that issue, but it's, you know, the younger guys do.

Well, I mean, it makes sense. I mean, you're like, you're going to charge me this just to go pull wires and look at stuff? You know, I mean, but it makes sense when you get someone to communicate it well and they can communicate it well to a homeowner like, oh, Of course. I mean, please, I want you to know what's, what's going on behind my walls.

Right? Right.

So it's safe. So, but so what did you do? You just trained— part of the training was, hey, let's talk about why it's important to do that. I mean, was it— how much did you have to talk about it?

For sure. I actually even have a recording from a customer that we did a minor troubleshooting shoot on instead of the moderate. He, he talks about how he wished we would offer the moderate from the beginning because the hassle that he had from it.

Yeah.

So that's an inspiration to the team to make sure they don't do it again. So yeah. And it's something that you feel like you, hey, you've trained on, you got your team going good, and then you fade away from it. But as a growing company, you always have new guys. So you have to make sure you reinstill it and rebring it up.

Right.

But that's a big thing, training them on how to approach the miner troubleshoot. And then if the customer literally cannot afford to do the miner troubleshoot, isn't in a position, and you drop down to a miner, they're so much less likely to blame it on you because they chose that miner.

Yeah.

But if you come at them from the miner point of view and you don't Recommend that they hey if you have a thirty-year-old house we should check this whole circuit and make sure you don't have an issue.

Yeah.

Well then they blame you.

Yeah.

It doesn't have an issue.

Yeah. So when you when you do regular training is it just always trying to find something that's going on in the company or there's like okay we need to for sure this week talk about the steps of the call so no one forgets those? You know how do you decide what you're going to train on? I know that's always a challenge.

Yeah. So you always want to make sure everybody's. Doing our checks and then writing good options for it. That's a must. But then from there, you're just looking for your weaknesses, you know? So you're looking for, do you have a low closing rate? Do you have low numbers? Like, what's the— do you have customer concerns? Like, what's the negative that's happening in the company? And so you work on your weaknesses first.

Very good.

You know, at CertainPath, we always talk— it was a big— we're at expo. This is happening at one of our 2 national expos. The big talk was gross margin, gross margin, right? Things are getting tight and a little tighter. So yeah, what do you do to keep an eye on like your labor percentage? Like, you know, and then when it spikes up a little bit, why, why is that? Is it because guys aren't offering good options or how do you address that?

Um, um, so it is some of that. So like if they're not hitting their numbers, you're going to have a—

it's a sales issue.

It affects it. Correct. So, so you always got to be pushing on that. And then part of it's kind of your pay structure. So like at one point we had too many apprentices and I kind of feel like we're— we, we could do 2 apprentices, you know. And so you're watching that thing because those are things that you can adjust, you know, don't hire the next apprentice, you know. And so we'll even do stuff like in slow season instead of hiring an apprentice, we'll have the techs help each other every once in a while.

Yeah.

Just to keep them busy and then prevent from hiring that apprentice through seasons that we don't need them the whole time.

Right.

Right. But that actually has helped too. Okay.

How about materials? I know guys love to stockpile junk in the truck, but they don't need it, right? Yeah, it just happens. You get busy like, I need this and that. How do you minimize, you know, overbuying? I mean, I don't know if they're allowed to go to the box stores or if you try to limit that.

We try and limit it. So we did wind up hiring somebody for our warehouse and that, that, I mean, it saved us probably 5% material cost. So I mean, just having somebody there watching stuff like that. So I mean, it's still mind-boggling to me because I'm not sure in what way, how, where was that 5% of material going before? But nevertheless, it has helped. And he also shops prices so he can, he can go to our vendor and be like, hey, look, this other company's got Romex wire at this price. Can you match it? Stuff like that. So that's helped. But for our techs, it's talking to them about it. So we now we have a checklist. So when they get a truck, they go through that checklist and then we give them like 30 days to— because you're never going to get that truck perfect. Well, just almost impossible.

Sure.

But, and it kind of needs to be adapted a little bit per tech. So some techs are panel kings, some are LEDs.

So yeah, some prefer selling other things, right? Yeah, it makes sense.

So we let them kind of adapt their truck in the first 30 days to what materials do they want. And then we're trying to once a year restock that truck to make sure the material is right and everything's straight.

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I want to pivot to marketing because it's a hot topic. We talked a lot about it today at Expo. You are in a market where you've got some big players like the guy, the guy you worked for originally. You got Baker Brothers, there's A1. I mean, you've got some big players that are, I'm sure, make pay-per-click very difficult. And so what do you do then? How do you grow your business? Is it just getting focusing on the reviews and dominating your little— your area, or what do you do?

So dominating your areas is key. It's a must because so there's no way I can dominate Dallas. I mean, there's so much and we've wasted money trying in different ways, but you really got to analyze your market, analyze your ideal customer, analyze your ideal house, and then look for those neighborhoods. And so then your goal is to dominate those neighborhoods. But, and it's really the reputation that you have matters more than anything. So the reputation your techs are doing and stuff like that. But in a marketplace like mine where there's just so many people, you gotta find niches.

Right.

So it could be a magazine that nobody else is in. It could be a mailout when nobody else is doing a mailout. And it's hard to know what they're not doing.

Yeah.

But look for what they are doing. Don't do that. Yeah. So I actually talked to Gus this year because I was anxious to get on TV. I wanted to do it. I just felt like that was the next big thing. But then after talking to him, I realized there's so much competition on there and that's not my target market because I've made my target market these more suburb-type communities. Right. And so I'm going to focus more on that, being part of those suburb communities.

Are you, are you doing some direct mail or something to those specific areas or how are you targeting them?

We do. So, and we're still trying to fine-tune the best way to do this, but sure. Something we're doing is like if we get 3 customers in one neighborhood, well, now we're going to do a mailout in that neighborhood, especially if those 3 customers bought something similar. So if they all bought surge protection, then we do a surge mailer. If they all upgraded their panel or had some safety issues, you are trying to appeal to what that neighborhood is. Yeah. So we're trying to make special mailouts for that neighborhood. That's great. And if you find a neighborhood that— I mean, like a neighborhood that has a name and you say, you know, the Frankford Community Electrician, You know, that also hits home harder.

Yeah. So, you know, you're part of your name, you know, the W3 is community, right? So winning. So what are you doing to support the community? I mean, it's good for promotion as well. But so what do you, what do you guys do to kind of get the name out that way?

So we have some nonprofits we work with. Oh, this is a neat thing about us. So our winners membership, 20% of all proceeds of that go into a charity fund to give back to our community.

Oh, wow. So that makes it a real easy sale now.

It helps easier for the customer that found us because of our community involvement. It helps with that. And then it also sets a guideline because before we were like, we need to have a community fund, but I don't know how to do it. Do we just do 5% of everything we do? But now this really sets something for it. Now we have this budget and so we'll do stuff. We'll sponsor sporting events. I found with sporting events, I don't sponsor it if it's a sales advertising company trying to sell to me. But if it's a community person that's part of that, oh, that's a That's a good little—

yeah, that's a good note.

That makes a huge difference because then you have somebody in there that's proud to see it and stuff like that.

Yeah.

And then we've even done it for— we do it for our teams, any team members. So if any of their kids are in sports, hey, if you know, if you have any of your schools that need sponsorship, let us know. So they all know that. Yeah. And then, you know, doing charity donations and stuff like that too.

Yeah, that's great. That's great. I want to talk about just how your management team, how you work with them. What do you got? Are you guys getting together weekly? And if so, what are you talking about? Kind of what's the meeting cadence at your company?

So we meet once a week with our management team. And so we have like an agenda list. And when we first started doing this meeting, we would all read our agendas and talk about where we're at with them. We kind of got away from that. So now what we do, we still have the agenda list and I'm like, okay, everybody take 5 minutes, read your agenda, and let's discuss anything that you need somebody else's help with.

Yeah.

Rather than everybody reading their own and people getting bored in that meeting. That's, that's actually helped our meetings. And now we're having more brainstorming in those meetings too.

Yeah.

Because we got more time with it. Right.

You're able to retarget and go, okay, well, wow, we got a problem here. We need to fix that.

So. Yep.

Very good. Yeah. Just kind of starting to sort of wrap up. What is— how has CertainPath helped you over this last couple of years? I mean, you've grown quite a bit in a short period of time. So how's the organization helped you? What's it meant?

They've definitely helped us be more professional, like build process and procedures. You have somebody to ask, you know, and so that's helped so much. And then I joined this TAG group. It's my first year doing that.

Yeah. Tell everyone what that is, what a TAG group is.

So TAG group is basically they put you— you meet up once a month with other business owners that are in similar size and growth phases as you. And it works great because so before this, I was trying to basically do the same thing. at expos. I was trying to meet up with other business owners, pick their brains, stuff like that. But now I have a monthly group where we grow a bond and then you can reach out to those people. And then when you see them at the expo, it's even more valuable.

Yeah, that's right.

That's right.

Yeah. Accountability is a big thing. And this organization, the accountability and the networking, just— it's just you feel like you're not alone, right?

Yeah.

Kind of that family vibe.

Yeah.

It's cool. Good for you. That's great. So now that, you know, you're, you know, you're growing, you've got these people in place, what are you in your role? What are you focused on right now to grow the business?

So I Basically, I'm looking for weaknesses and I adapt to them. So, um, like if we don't have enough call volume, I'll switch to marketing for a little bit. Um, if our call center isn't having a good closing rate, I'll kind of switch in there for a little bit. Um, but it's wherever the company needs me. But I mean, the training, so I mean, the biggest things are looking forward for the future.

Mm-hmm.

And so kind of having some insight and stuff like that. So like the EV world is growing. So we're looking at different things for that. We're actually— we're having an EV charger made with our logo on it. So it's all about us and doing that because I just see the EV world growing so much. Yeah, what? But it's having that stuff, interviewing people, talking to people, and then looking for the future.

You've grown a lot in a short period of time, especially in electrical. And what are— what are some things that you stubbed your toe on? You went, man, I wish we didn't do that. I wish we would have— or I wish we would have done something earlier. Is there anything that comes to mind that people can learn from?

There's tons of little stuff.

Yeah, I doubt it. I'm not sure.

So, man, it's hard to say. There's nothing, that one thing that stands out.

Maybe the clubs earlier.

Yeah, I would've done the clubs earlier. Some of my change structure. The biggest thing this year that I wish I did last year was probably debriefing with my techs. I wish we would've started that sooner so that we could help them be stronger sooner. Yeah.

A lot of people think you can just get away with it with software, but when you got to talk to somebody before you get dispatched to the next, kind of like, oh, I forgot, you know, I better take my time on that call. Yeah, just burn through it.

What I found is the easiest way is almost never the best way.

Yeah.

So you've got—

That's a good— that's a good little nugget right there.

Yeah. And that works with marketing too. So like with marketing, everybody wants to just pay a digital marketer, but digital, you can't just do digital marketing only. Then that's the easy way of doing it. But that's not the best way. You got to do everything.

So the company— yeah, I should ask about this before we completely wrap up. A company your size to have a dedicated marketing person, it's not always that common. So what is he or she doing for marketing for you?

So she's making social media posts. She's— so I'm still kind of the, the ideast behind it. And then I come up with an idea. I'm like, hey, let's next week, let's do this promotion for this. So like right now we're doing a state fair promotion. Okay.

I saw that.

Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah.

So she took that and ran with it, made you know, made artwork, really know stuff like that. So, so because her career is not in marketing, she just does it. And so she just has a mindset of she enjoys doing business and helping grow and stuff like that. So we brainstorm together and what was the original question?

No, I just— what, what all she manages is the marketing portion.

Gotcha.

Yeah.

So there's so much marketing. I mean, so she also does analyzing, so she helps me analyze the neighborhoods.

Oh, great. Yeah. So target better.

Correct. So Yeah. So I almost call it like our war map. So we want to look at and really know what's our prime area that we want to focus our, our growth on and our marketing dollars because they matter so much.

Yeah.

I mean, that's, that's actually really— it's interesting and it makes sense because again, in the market you're at with how expensive it is to do TV and, and pay for clicks now, I've known talking to those guys, it's gone up way, way, way high. So you got to find ways to win, right? So they got to help have some help with that sometimes.

Yep.

All right. Last question. Where do you see the business in 5 to 10 years? Have you kind of mapped it out in your mind?

So I don't plan on slowing down growth. So as long as the market's there, as long as the techs are there, and as long as they're enjoying it. But my purpose and why I'm in business is to help people better their lives. Yeah. So like in all reality, if we just stayed where I was, I'd be okay with that. But I don't feel like I'd be helping my people enough. Yeah. So I want to— and the more you grow, the more efficient you become. Yeah. So as we grow, so there really is no limit to what I want to grow to. It's really what my team wants to grow to. Right, right, right.

Well, there you go. Well, Bill, I really enjoyed chatting with you and learning your story. Thanks for taking time with us.

Happy to do it.

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