SGI President Rebecca Cassel shares her insight on the role of team leaders and ops managers in residential service businesses.

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Our jobs as owners and managers is to be very aware of the people that we have on our team, what motivates them, and how they will respond. If you have the support and the loyalty of your team, they will probably accept somebody who will come in and do the things that I said, even if they don't have the technical expertise.

Right.

If you've got a lot of people on your team who aren't supporting you, aren't loyal, have bad attitudes, it's going to be an uphill battle no matter who you put in there. So you need to have a solid solid foundation of people who are for the vision that you've set, are excited about the company. Um, and you need to also give everyone the opportunity to raise their hand. They may not be ready, but having the conversation with somebody is only fair. If you just ignore them and immediately bring in someone from the outside, they will resent that.

Yeah.

So you need to sit down and have the conversation with those that might raise their hand and you know they're not right for the job. And talk a little bit about, you know, what their goals are, what they want, where they see themselves, and the development and the training that they will need to do to get them to where they want to be.

Welcome to the Successful Contractor Podcast, powered by Success Group International, a show for residential contractors about residential contractors. We chronicle business journeys share insights, and celebrate successes in this wonderful industry. I'm your host, Bob Houchin. Today you're going to listen to a conversation I had with Success Group International President Rebecca Castle. At SGI, despite the economic uncertainty today, the vast majority of our members are as busy as ever. That means they're hiring, and if they're adding people, it means they're also looking to elevate or hire leaders, whether it be team leaders or operations managers in particular. But what do those positions look like? What are the ideal characteristics of team leaders and ops managers? How do techs' responsibilities change when they take on that responsibility of a team lead? Do all the team leaders have futures as operations managers, or does that not always work? These are a lot of the questions and many more that I asked Rebecca. I hope you enjoy our conversation and take away a nugget of information or two. Thank you so much for your time. I know it's a precious commodity. For those of you listening for the first time, Rebecca Castle is the president of Success Group International and has an extensive background in leadership and management and many more things in the contracting space. And I thought there would be no one better to talk about our topic today than her. So thank you, Rebecca, for your time.

Absolutely.

Great. Well, great. Well, like, the topic of today is team leaders or lead technicians. Thankfully, Lots of SGI members are doing really well even in these unusual times, that they're adding technicians, they're adding trucks, and for our smaller members, they are running into a situation where they're getting maxed out and can't really manage all their folks at one time. So they are looking to either hire or elevate someone into a middle management kind of role for the first time. So with that being said, Rebecca, my first question is, what kind of technicians should be kind of promoted into that team leadership or lead tech role? What kind of characteristics What kind of characteristics are you looking for? What kind of production are you looking for?

So, um, I think one of the most important things when we're looking for people who display the natural leadership characteristics is that they are really good with communication. That's so important, not only as a technician, but then also when you're helping people along their path in coaching. You've got to really be able to communicate well. So communication is key. Obviously, all the things that are the foundation of being a great leader— integrity, self-awareness, understanding who you are and how you communicate and how you approach people. But then also, I think there's a tremendous amount of empathy that you have to want to help people and want to see those people succeed.

Mm-hmm.

So, when you've got a great technician who is skilled being a technician and they are naturally respected for their knowledge and their ability to produce, your team will actually naturally kind of go to that person for information, for questions, and be able to see them as someone that they respect. And I think those are the types of things that naturally happen in a business. And you can kind of point and look to those types of people who are able to influence others. But I think that one of the worst things that we can do as owners and managers of the business is to force someone into a leadership role.

Right.

If those things aren't naturally occurring. And so, because it's harder, it's harder to get someone to want to do that as, as opposed to someone who's already displaying those types of behaviors. Right.

So these people kind of make themselves self-aware. You don't need to strain to pick those individuals out, it sounds like.

Yeah, they, they are, you know, and sometimes they may not be your top producer, but they're very productive. They're probably very consistent. They also are someone who accepts the process and adapts to change and is somebody who is, is very aware of how to make things better. And Sometimes this is not maybe your superstar salesperson, but it's definitely someone who's very consistent, but who also is a great communicator who wants to share their knowledge and help other people.

Very good. Very good. How does that affect their formal responsibilities? So you sit down with this person, you talk to them about the opportunity, and what do you say to them what the expectation will be for them?

Yeah, so setting the expectation is obviously very, very important, and there can be different varying job descriptions for depending upon what the person, uh, what you want that person to do. So one of the things I suggest is sit down and say, depending upon the size of your company, here's what this person's doing now. What are the additional things I need them to do? Do I need them just to be available, uh, on a call basis for someone who has a technical question?

Mm-hmm.

Do I expect them to actually manage the numbers? Do I actually expect them to get productivity? Or am I looking for someone just to be able to kind of be there as a sounding board for Mm-hmm. Some of the other technicians. So I think the job description and the responsibilities can vary depending upon the need of the company. So it also depends upon the strength of whoever's the manager or the owner. So if I'm an operations manager and I have a lot of technical strength, then I might need to have my lead tech perform and have some other responsibilities to complement that. If I'm an operations manager or an owner who doesn't have that technical expertise, I might need my lead tech to have more responsibility in the technical aspect of the business. So I think the responsibilities can vary. And then obviously after you set that job description and really talked about the expectations, then you can, you know, look at the compensation that would go along with whatever that job description is. And I've seen it work several different ways. I can give you the example that we have used most recently at Castle Home Comfort.

Yeah.

We had a lead tech who was also a very, very high producer for us, but also a tremendous communicator and a guy who really loved to coach people. And so he became the natural person because he has the technical expertise.

Yeah.

And our general manager did not have the technical expertise to be the kind of the go-to person from a technical expert in the field.

Right.

We didn't ask him to do reviews, didn't ask him to do coaching when things were more challenging or if a tech wasn't producing, but really outlined and said, hey, you are providing more value here with the responsibility of kind of being our lead tech from a technical perspective, and compensated him in return for that.

Is that typically— I mean, and I know you don't have to speak to this specific individual, but is it typically just an extra A couple bucks an hour? Is it a, uh, a bonus of some type? Or for people that have just have no clue what that should look like, is there any kind of guidelines you can provide?

So we ended up doing a flat weekly amount as kind of a salary for that particular responsibility because he was also taking after call or on the weekends helping technicians who were, were on call. So in essence, he was kind of Not on call all the time, but he needed to be available. And so we figured out a flat amount. We chose $250 a week. That may not be enough in certain markets, that may be too much in certain markets, but we felt like, okay, this is getting him an extra $1,000 a month for doing the responsibilities that we had, which didn't seem super extensive at the time.

Mm-hmm.

So if someone's actually going to be doing more than that, You know, doing the ride-alongs, doing the coaching, doing, you know, the performance reviews, and, you know, helping with all of the hiring and recruiting and the onboarding and all of those types of things, obviously that would command a higher compensation package.

Right, right. So when you elevate someone into a lead tech role, is there an expectation that maybe their production will dip a bit because they're spending more time on the phone, they're spending more time coaching people? Or do you find most of the time that they still kind of produce at the same level, they just take on the additional challenges? I'm just trying to outline for, for members listening again that have never had to do this what, what they can expect to see.

Yeah, actually I've seen it both. So I think it depends on the number of technicians that they are actually helping. So if you've got a lead tech or someone who is responsible for, let's say, 5 or 6 or 7 technicians, the amount of time that they're going to spend helping other people versus running calls is probably going to be more challenged. So they're not going to be able to run as many calls. What I've seen though is that they continue to perform on the calls that they get. The problem is the volume of the number that they can run goes down.

Right.

But if you've got a lead tech and he might be helping 2 or 3 people, I've seen them be able to continue to produce at the same level that they were before.

Right.

So I think it depends on, you know, how many people. It also depends on how green your team is. So if I've got half of my technicians who are green, that lead tech is going to probably be spending some more time doing that. But here's the great thing, typically someone who's in this role is also able to upsell and also able to turn things into leads and optimize the calls that they're on. So you might see them run fewer calls but still be able to generate the revenue they were before because they are good producers.

Right, that's interesting, that's interesting. In terms of, you know, lead technicians and managing technicians themselves and In particular, maybe individuals on the team who are not performing, so whether they're having constant callbacks or they're not meeting certain sales goals, is that a job for the lead tech to really manage that person, or is that a point where an ops manager, GM, or an owner should really step in and kind of coach that person? What is the expectation for a team lead in that instance?

I would think that that for someone who is just really a team lead, but still in a truck and still performing, that the responsibility of the recruiting, the onboarding, and the performance reviews, as well as some of those more difficult coaching conversations, need to be had by the operations manager. The team lead can play a part, but to expect that person to go out and produce and continue to manage from a full perspective a whole group of people is probably unrealistic.

Right.

I've seen where a team lead would coach and do the best that they could from a sales and a numbers perspective, but ultimately they're going to need more support, especially if they're still running calls. And that's why that job description is so important, because the lines can get really blurry on what a team lead is versus an operations manager. And we want to make sure that that's super clear, not only for the person doing the jobs, but the person The techs that report up, it needs to be super clear to them so that they don't play one against the other or say, I didn't know that because this person was in charge and I thought that person was in charge. So the chain of command should be really clear with the expectation. And if someone's still in the truck producing, it's going to be hard for them to have that full suite of management responsibilities.

Right. On the other side, you know, lead techs that are dealing with, you know, say you've got a team that's doing really well. What would you recommend an owner talking to a lead tech about how to be that cheerleader? Do you tell them, hey, make it a point to try and reach out to guys if they have a big ticket or they flip that lead? Or is that just something innate and that's why that person ended up in that position in the first place? They just know when to do that. What's your thought on that?

I think leaders know what motivates their team. cases, a pat on the back, a high five, a text message of recognition in front of the group is something that one particular tech might really appreciate, where another might just go, hey, I'm super excited about my bonus opportunity because of my production this month, right? So I think a good leader will really know each one of the people that are under them or working, you know, working with them. And so I would say that It's probably more natural for those who want to coach, lead, influence, and help others to be able to do that when necessary and to be able to make sure that they are treating their team the way that they want to be treated themselves.

Very good.

As a small contractor, when do you know you're ready to try and elevate someone into that position? Maybe is it just when you're getting maxed out? Do you have to be sure to have that person, I guess, really in your team first, or do you look outside your organization sometimes if you don't have that person? I know that's a couple of questions there, but what do you say about that?

Let's take the first one. When are you ready? At SGI, we have a financial model, and the financial model leads you to know when you can start compensating and paying for extra additional layers of management. There's a big risk in hiring people that you're not ready for. ready for because you don't have the financial wherewithal to be able to pay that person and still make the money that you need to make to grow the company.

Yeah.

So, we want to look to that, but we also want to look to the numbers, number of people that you are managing. So, if you're a GM, and let's say that you are the GM and the operations manager, and now you are managing 10 or 12 people under you, it's really difficult to give those people the attention needed, especially if they're spread out in different departments across the the company. And so at that point in time, it's probably a good idea to identify, if you can, someone within your company that could step into kind of a lead tech role, or someone who also could— I know we're talking more technicians, but someone who also could maybe take on some supervisory roles in the office to free you up as a general manager or ops manager. So as you grow, the need will obviously become to where it's not just a lead tech situation, it's someone who's actually an operations manager with more responsibility. So I think it's kind of a hybrid, um, you know, depending upon what trade you're in. I've seen people who've been able to manage maybe 8 to 10 techs, and then it starts to get really crazy with all the other responsibilities that you have as a general manager.

Mm-hmm.

And so then they add in that lead tech. I've seen where a lead tech could be when you only have 4 or 5 because they're still outproducing at a high level. And so it's really not a huge expense to me to be able to compensate that even though I only have 3 or 4 or 5 technicians. So I think, I think it's not a volume per, per se, because I think that we can get into some trouble just saying, oh, when I reach this amount of revenue, I can have a manager. I think you have to look at your individual situation. If you have a model to follow, follow the model, but then look at the number of people that you are trying to manage, and are you doing a good job being able to do all of those management things that require? And it's not just about setting expectations, as we know, it's about the training and the coaching and the follow-through and holding people accountable, and then the performance reviews and the rewards and all those things that come with management.

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For more information, go to When in particular do you feel like it's, it's time, or when is it needed to elevate a team leader into that operations manager role? Or is that not always a natural transition for that individual?

It's not always a natural transition. And, you know, I think being a team lead, obviously the responsibilities are very different than being an operations manager. An operations manager They are now responsible for the production, for the gross margin of the business, and are really responsible for that COGS part of the financial, the cost of goods. And so there's a lot that goes into that. So if you haven't trained or developed somebody into that and you just take them and say, oh, you are my lead tech and now you should be the operations manager, that will be very challenging and you'll be very frustrating.

Right. Right.

Frustrated. So I think there needs to be a plan if you're going to elevate somebody. I think there has to be a clear understanding because it's also a very, very different job taking someone who's been in a truck, who's been working mostly with their hands, to now bring them into the office and have them more so in the office than they were before. And I think you have to have those tough conversations with a person that you believe is the right person to elevate into the operations manager role. I've seen a lot of people decide to go outside and bring somebody in. And again, that has its good and its bad too, right? Because you're now having to develop and onboard and train somebody to be able to do that role.

Sure.

So, I think it depends on the person. I think it also depends on how much time you've spent identifying the gaps and training them. for the next step in their role. What I see most contractors doing is basically plucking someone out of the field and throwing them in without a lot of thought and training and development for the operations management role.

Just to chase this operations manager position a little bit more, we talked about what kind of traits a team leader has. Are they that much different for an operations manager? When you're looking at all your people or you're looking at an outside candidate, what kind of skill set, what kind of behavior or emotional characteristics should people be kind of cluing in on? Is it someone who's very detail-oriented versus someone who's personable, or does that not matter?

I think there's got to be a good balance of both. So emotional intelligence, to be able to relate to people, to be able to read people, to be able to have the ability to communicate and coach people, to influence them to come along. But there are more detailed things. That probably a technician has that detail capacity, but they're just in, in a different area. So, now I need to be a little bit more familiar with our pricing and with our costs and the vendors that we're using. And I also need to know all my KPIs and be able to manage my teams, the KPIs. So, I think there's gotta be a good balance of both. I need to be relational, I need to have good communication skills, but then I also need to have more business acumen, understanding the numbers that we need to hit.

Right.

A lead tech could obviously totally learn all of those things and get exposed to all of those things for sure.

Now, I know you have experience in elevating people into management roles that are coming from outside of the industry, and as you mentioned, it takes a certain type of onboarding and training to get them up and running. But again, once you find the right person who has the right work ethic and the certain skills you're looking for, you know you can get them to that point. What does that training process look like specifically? Is it just having them sit by your side, sit on your hip for weeks at a time and just going through a checklist of different tasks that you know this individual has to manage? I know it's a big question to answer in a couple minutes or so, but how would you let someone know how that onboarding process should look like for a new manager in that ops manager role?

Sure. So, I mean, we've had a lot of experience bringing in people who don't have trade or industry experience into management roles. And actually, I'm one of them. So, I am— I'm not a technician. I'm not technical. I know enough to be dangerous. But, you know, knowing what I went through to be able to learn the business and then taking people alongside, it takes a while and it takes a plan. And an organization like SGI has a lot of the training and the tools To get someone exposed to all the things that you would need to know. But here's my approach coming in the door, and this is what we try to find people who are willing to do this, is that they may not be the best at certain areas of the business, but they have to know all aspects coming in as a manager.

Mm-hmm.

They need to understand how we dispatch, and they need to understand the importance of what we say to customers on the phone. And then they need to understand all the financials and the numbers and the pricing and how we negotiate with vendors and they need to understand how we are supposed to run a service call. And if they have not had any exposure to that at all, you know, the onboarding can seem a little daunting if there's not resources for that. So industry trainings, you know, anything to do with operations management, any courses that you can send people to. We have operations management course, we have a sales manager's course through SGI, but there's, there's other things that you can get exposed to, you know, doing field visits, riding along with technicians, going out on an install, being a part of learning it kind of through every aspect of the business. And then, you know, after you've gotten exposure to that, starting to do some of the tasks and some of the things that you've been exposed to yourself.

Mm-hmm.

And, um, this— you're probably never going to be a technician, you're probably never going to have all the lingo, but you're going to know enough, um, to know what you need to manage. And then you'll have technical expertise or technical resources to, uh, consult, um, should you, you know, should you need to do that as someone coming in without any kind of trade experience.

What's a reasonable timeline for someone? It's— are you, you know, is it, is it 3 months, 6 months, is it a year? I mean, I know I've heard different things with people, but— or is it just more or less you want to see they're continuing to grow, and so as a result you'll have more patience and you won't make it as stringent of a timeline? Or what's your experience in this space with that?

I've seen it happen as quickly as 4 months depending upon the individual coming in the door. You know, that particular individual was super motivated to learn and just was extremely, extremely diligent in building relationships and figuring out as much as they possibly could. Um, so I would say I've seen it as short as 4. I wouldn't, I wouldn't short you— short it any more than 6 months, um, in a smaller company. You know, if you're a very, very large company, there might be, you know, more ins and outs to, to learn, so it might take longer.

Right.

But, um, the great thing about what we do is We— it's a lot of daily discipline to do the same things every single day.

Right.

So, you know, how we answer the phone, how we dispatch the call, how we run the service call, how we account for it, and how we report on it and do all of that over again is pretty much the same process every day with a lot of variation related to people. So our customers throw in that variation, and then our employees throw in that variation. And so someone who's very People-oriented with a high awareness of emotional intelligence will do very well, and someone who's driven and hungry to want to learn.

Right. What's the communication look like? So say, you know, as the owner of a business, and when you had a general manager that did not have the trades background, and, you know, you're going through this onboarding process, are you touching base with this individual multiple times throughout the day, like constantly, or do you kind of up and say, hey, these are the things we want you to do today, to review today, to learn today, and then I'll touch base at the end of the day? Or how, you know, how— what do those touch points look like? Again, for someone who's a member that's, you know, just trying to grow and figure this whole, you know, management thing out, what does that look like?

Well, if you're hiring the right person, they're hungry, humble, and smart, and they're not going to want to be micromanaged. So what I like to do is sit down in the morning and say, hey, these are the priorities for the day since you're new. I'm going to do this for the next several weeks and just to make sure that we're all aligned and that you have the support that you need.

Great.

And so I do it first thing in the morning, let them go do their day, and unless they, they have a lot of questions or you're actually doing a part of the training or the onboarding, follow up with them at the end of the day and say, okay, what went well today? What didn't go well? What do you need some more support in? What did not make sense? Where can I fill in the gaps for you? And I would challenge them every day To make sure that they don't just say, nope, yep, today was great, right? Because we know that that's not really how it goes when you're brand new.

Sure.

And I would do that for the first couple weeks. And then after that, it's probably more of a, I'm gonna just check in with you at the end of the day. And then obviously, as they get more confidence and they're doing their job and you know that you've got confidence in them doing their job, you know, you might just check in with them a couple times a week just to see what's going on. Or you might have your regularly scheduled management meetings where the people who are making things happen are getting together.

Right.

Do you—

is there ever a point where you kind of talk to the other team members and go, hey, what do you think of, you know, Joe or Sam? Or do you worry about that undercutting that person if you want to try and understand how they're doing from your other employees' perspective?

So I definitely would take what I call a temperature check with the team. I'd be very careful not to do it too soon because you need to give, you know, everyone an opportunity and a chance. But, you know, within the first 90 days, If this person is the right person, they will be building relationships and they will be gaining the respect even though they are not technical in nature.

Right.

And so, if they're— and it really kind of happens. I've seen it happen naturally where, you know, okay, this person understands people. They understand and are gaining the respect of what they're doing.

Right.

And so, I would definitely probably maybe after the first 4 weeks, Just talk to the team, how's it going? And I would do this one-on-one so that it's not in a group. The other way that you can also do it is, you know, continue to do anonymous surveys. I know a lot of people don't, but you can set up some really great surveys through SurveyMonkey. It's free.

Mm-hmm.

You can use the Gallup standard questions, and that kind of helps your team give you anonymous feedback on what's going on. And if you're small, And they're having issues with management, then it's either you or, or the person that you just hired. So it's, it's pretty easy to figure out.

Right, right. That's funny. Um, you mentioned respect, and that's, that's a huge thing. I know for, uh, I've heard all sorts of interesting stories about when you hire someone from outside the trades and how the technicians respond. Is there, are there any, um, you know, take for your, you know, yourself when, when you, uh, first How do you get those guys' respect? A lot of these guys could be older and they could be crusty, or should that not be the situation? If you have the right team, they should be welcoming of someone even if they're from outside the industry. And when they do come in, is there something they can do to try and help build those relationships, or again, is it just kind of an innate ability that they like socializing with people and they're good at building relationships right away and that's why they're that position?

So yeah, respect. Um, you can't make people respect you, right? It's something that's totally earned. Coming in the door, especially as a young female, um, and managing technicians, um, early in my career, one of the things that was really evident to me is I needed to come in and listen. I needed to understand their perspective, their point of view. I needed to dig into What their daily life was out in the field. And so, the first several weeks, I just went on jobs. I installed, I got in crawl spaces, I got in attics, and I was fearless in wanting to help. Now, I didn't have any technical knowledge, but if they said, help me with this, I helped them with it. And I think they were shocked, first, that I would do that, and second of all, that I wanted to learn what it was like to be out there. And I always respected how hard their job is. There's so much to being out in the field, whether you're on a roof, whether you're in a 140-degree attic, whether you're in a crawl space with snakes. And I showed them I was willing to do that. And then I— my primary job initially was to sell. And so to be a project manager or Comfort Advisor and sell, I think I earned their respect because my job was to make sure that they had work the next day.

Right.

And so my whole goal was is to find ways to show them, I respect what you're doing. I don't have that skillset, but I have another complementary skillset that will make us the great team.

That's great.

And so, that was a big part of what I've seen other people come in and do. If I would've come in and sat in the office all day long and told them what to do and had no perspective and no relationship building, because there's a lot of relationship building you can do while you're out in the field and on the job, I think that that would've been very difficult for me. And so, did I like what I had to do? No. I mean, it was hard.

Sure.

It was really hard, but it gave me a tremendous amount of respect to understand and care about their perspective. And then when I, you know, and it also helped me technically because then I could go out and I knew enough on what I needed to do to sell.

Wow.

Yeah.

And there were also very many times when I was out selling and I didn't know some of the things that we needed to do on a job. I would call and I'd ask one of the technicians to come out and say, hey, can you run this lead with me? There's some ductwork or there's a weird installation here and I'm not familiar with this. It helped me learn, but it also showed them, wow, they, you know, Rebecca thinks that I'm valuable in helping with this. So, I think that was a big part of the respect, being willing to listen, be useful. You know, putting yourself in someone else's shoes, learning, being willing to learn, and don't act like a know-it-all. And then eventually not trying to come in and prove yourself, but eventually letting them know, I've got something to offer too, and it's going to be complementary to what you're doing.

That's awesome. That's great insight. Thank you. Just a last question. Any, any final pieces of advice for smaller members, looking to elevate a team lead or members that are a little bigger and maybe have a team leader too and looking to add that operations manager to round out their company?

Yeah, I think it's going back to really figuring out exactly what you want that person to do. I think a lot of times we don't really look at what we want the person to do. We look at somebody else and go, I think they can do that. And I think starting there and being really clear on that Right. And I also think one of our jobs as owners and managers is to be very aware of the people that we have on our team, what motivates them, and how they will respond. If you have the support and the loyalty of your team, they will probably accept somebody who will come in and do the things that I said, even if they don't have the technical expertise.

Right.

If you've got a lot of people on your team who aren't supporting you, aren't loyal, have bad attitudes, it's going to be an uphill battle no matter who you put in there. So you need to have a solid foundation of people who are for the vision that you've set, are excited about the company. And you need to also give everyone the opportunity to raise their hand. They may not be ready, but having the conversation with somebody It's only fair. If you just ignore them and immediately bring in someone from the outside, they will resent that.

Yeah.

So, you need to sit down and have the conversation with those that might raise their hand and you know they're not right for the job, and talk a little bit about, you know, what their goals are, what they want, where they see themselves, and the development and the training that they will need to do to get them to where they want to be. And I think if you have that very transparent communication going on inside your company, You'll have the opportunity to bring on a successful operations manager.

That's great. Good stuff. Well, thank you so much, Rebecca. I really appreciate all your time. Uh, this is super insightful, lots of great nuggets for our members. So thank you so very much.

Glad to be here, Bob. Thanks so much.

That's Rebecca Castle, president of Success Group International. Thanks for listening to the show. If you feel like you have a great story worth That would also help other contractors. Email me at bhouchin@yoursgi.com. Also, if you enjoyed today's episode, please give us a rating. Remember, friends give fives. You've been listening to the Successful Contractor Podcast, powered by Success Group International.

Support for this podcast comes from Ream Brothers Richard and Donald Ream founded Ream Manufacturing Company in Emeryville, California, in 1925. The company has produced a number of cutting-edge products in its 89 years of operation. Today, Rheem is North America's only manufacturer of HVAC, water heating, pool and spa heating, and commercial refrigeration solutions. For more information, go to rheem.com. The Successful Contractor Podcast is a part of the Success Group International family. SGI is a large largest member-owned best practices organization for independent residential services contractors. SGI provides its members a competitive edge through proven proprietary management tools and expertise, marketing programs, training, and group buying power, along with a highly active and eager-to-help membership. For more information about Success Group International, visit www.yoursgi.com. The Successful Contractor Podcast is a production of the AQUILA Investment Group, LLC. All rights reserved, 2020.