The 3 Core Elements of Every Successful Business by SGI’s Chris Nelson

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With every great leader, there's, there's equally a great team. And for people to have a great company and a great culture and all those things, understand that you have to have a great team and you have to trust and believe in your team that they're gonna perform. And that's so important. And people, that's, I think that's a little bit understated because people feel like as a leader, they're just gonna, they're gonna have have all the impact and they're going to make everything happen. Well, that's not necessarily the case. Empowerment is huge.

Yes.

And training, teaching, coaching, all those things, and then let your team perform. And that's what coaches do in sports. That's what we should do in business as well.

Welcome to the Successful Contractor Podcast, powered by Success Group International, a show for residential contractors about residential contractors. We chronicle business journeys, share insights, and celebrate successes in this wonderful industry. I'm your host, Bob Houchin. Hey there, podcast listeners, and in particular SGI members. I returned from our San Antonio Expo a little less than a week ago, and I'm still pumped from the experience. I'm pumped and I'm thankful. I'm thankful for all the great feedback about the show. Those who stop me are just so kind, so thank you for that. What I'm truly thankful for are all the great stories I heard while in the hallways, in the sessions, at dinners, and yes, even over a few drinks with so many of you. We had over 1,200 people in San Antonio and nearly 400 companies in attendance. I feel like Each of those people, each of those companies had a success story to share. A story of growth and revenue or profitability. A story of achieving a huge goal. A story of overcoming a massive challenge. And when you hear stories such as those, it can't help but make you thankful to be part of this organization, this SGI family. So many of you go above and beyond to help one another, to help SGI. It's motivating. It's moving. So thank you for your stories. I look forward to telling many of them soon. Now, today's show, it ties in beautifully with talking about success stories. To have a successful business, there are many different elements that must exist within it. 3 of the most important are knowing your numbers, building a strong culture, and that typically means having exceptional leadership. And those are 3 core elements of every successful business must have. And that's what we're going to talk about with SGI Coach. Chris Nelson. As you will learn, Chris has retail operations management and leadership ingrained in his business background. He brings all that he's learned over the 17-plus years to help SGIA members today. So I hope you enjoy my conversation with Chris Nelson, and I hope you take away another or two.

So Chris, thank you so very much for, for joining me today. today on today's show. For those tuning in that have not had the pleasure of meeting you, could you please share with everyone your name and your role with SGI?

Yeah, so I'm Chris Nelson. I am an airtime coach here at SGI. I've been, been with the company for several months now and I'm enjoying every minute of it.

So excellent. And you got a unique background before getting into the contractor space. What were you doing previously?

So my path is a little unconventional. I, I worked in hospitality for 17 years and worked my way into several leadership positions throughout that time. And funny enough, that wasn't my goal when I started out. I got a degree in biology.

Oh yeah.

So, so kind of weird in that sense, but With, you know, with the time that I spent in hospitality, I learned a variety of different things about running a business. And so it really translates well to SGI and what we're trying to do for the members. So that's kind of where I'm at now. And that's kind of why we're talking today is to go over some of those things that I've learned over the years.

Absolutely. Yeah, I'm sure there's, you know, a lot of what we talk about is people management right. And I'm sure there was lots of lessons learned in people management working in hospitality. I'm sure there were some challenges that had to be overcome over the years.

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's been, you know, no business is perfect. Sure. And regardless of whether you're a $1 billion business or a $500,000 business, you're always going to have things to work on. You're always going to have challenges in your business. So And that's kind of one of the things that I like to stress with, with the members, because, you know, some of my members that I talk to on a regular basis are those bigger companies, but there's always things to work on. And regardless of whether it's, you know, culturally or you're managing the numbers or anything in between. So, so yeah, you can, you can always have— find something to improve on.

For sure, for sure. Today we're going to talk about a couple of core concepts that, you know, we traded emails back and forth trying to figure out what specifically our message would be. And there was 3 things you said you were passionate about, and that's knowing your numbers, building a strong company culture, and the value and necessity really of leadership and communication in your business. And, you know, I really thought they kind of speak well as core concepts that every strong business I've ever, you know, owner I've talked to or interviewed over the years, and I've been doing this a long time, they all seem to have those 3 things under control. Because if you don't, there's really no long-term growth that's, you know, possible. And it was interesting, I, you know, after we'd come up with our topic, I was talking with Abigail Chen, our Director of Operations, the other day, for those who don't know her. And she was meeting with a very large, Airtime member, newer member, but very large. And they were going over his budget and she just was like, wow, you know, for a guy this size, he just didn't know his numbers at all. And I bring up that short story just to make the simple point. I think in our industry, so many contractors just get, you know, sucked into this idea that all they need to do is make more sales, drive revenue. If they sell more, all the problems go away. But that's not really the case. And I think you've probably seen that as well, right, Chris?

Yeah, absolutely. I've always kind of lived by a motto that you should work to grow your top line, but you really need to manage the bottom line. And if you don't have those 2 things working in conjunction, yeah, I mean, revenue, and you'll see it with the bigger companies, revenue can cover up some deficiencies.

Yep.

But at the end of the day, it doesn't matter how big or small you are, You know, your goal is to flow that money, right?

Yes.

The ultimate goal is to flow that money. And deficiencies in a large business might be covered up, but there's so much opportunity there that you might be missing out on. And I go back to my past life. I previously worked for Topgolf for 5 years. And the first venue I worked at was a smaller footprint venue. It was about half the size of the second one I worked.

Revenue-wise. Yeah.

And it really, really made me and the rest of the team really hone in on how to flow that money and make the best of every opportunity that we had because we just didn't have the revenue. And when I transitioned over to the larger venue, the higher revenue venue, Those, those, those core— that core foundation transferred over and transitioned over, and we ultimately ended up being one of the, the highest profit, the most profitable venues in the company because of that.

That's interesting.

And just, yeah, it just speaks to the fact that regardless of how big or small you are, you really have to manage that bottom line and, and have a grip on what is going on with where your money's going.

So I'm interested by that and kind of take this conversation off the path for a bit, but I just was under the impression Topgolf just printed money, but I'm teasing. But so to have that really profitable location, what were some of the things you guys did? Just intrigued that maybe some of the other locations did not do. Were you just more mindful of waste or labor hours or what was it?

Yeah, I mean, it's a combination of all those things, but You know, we talk about kind of putting it in perspective of— I like to use sports analogies quite a bit. And if you're coaching a team and you make all your adjustments after the game's over, then you have no opportunity to make an impact in that game and win that game, right?

Right.

And it translates over to the business side of things too. I mean, If you're not managing and reviewing your P&L each and every month, you're not gonna be able to see the impacts in your business for that year. And you're, I mean, in some sense you're gonna lose at the end of that year because there's so much opportunity that you take advantage of if you're managing that P&L and looking at it each and every month. And so I guess kind of to put it in, to give an example of that, you know, shoulder months, we're in March and April right now, right? And we see an opportunity with our club membership Right. And we don't— we see that our revenue struggled this month because of our club memberships. Well, we don't really make any adjustments. Maybe we run some sort of thing for those busy months where, you know, like a contest and run that contest for the busy months and make sure that we're boosting up those clubs for the fall, right?

Right.

Well, if we don't make that adjustment and see those things, then in the fall we're gonna run into that same struggle. And then at the end of the year, you're gonna see, well, we didn't maximize that revenue in the fall that we could have if we had kind of analyzed that in the spring. So it really just comes down to each and every month looking at those things and diving in. So—

Very good. Yeah. What are some— let's talk, you know, some P&L, some, you know, numbers being a big thing that we talk about. You said that you're passionate about it. I know, SGI, we talk about it, you know, right away with new members, the importance of really digging in. I know so many of our, especially smaller members, their numbers are, well, I have this much in the checking account and that tells me I'm making money, right?

So, well, that's not really the case.

Right.

So, what are some key metrics or percentages, you know, contractors should be monitoring to see if they truly are making money, you know, bottom line money at the end of each month?

Yeah, so I mean, when I talk to members, I think the thing that I like them to focus on really is that gross margin.

Mm-hmm.

And if that margin is not at that 50% number that we want it to be or something close to that, you're not giving yourself a fighting chance, right? Because the overhead expenses, the operating expenses that each company faces are gonna be a little bit different based on the size, right?

Right.

But, and you can manage those because, you know, you're always going to be spending money on, on your utilities, on your building, depending on the size, you know, your trucks, depreciation, all those things are going to factor in. But you can have the biggest impact on what's above that gross margin line immediately. And if you, and if you're not looking at those things and not able to to hit those margins, you're not giving yourself a fighting chance for profitability at the end of the day. So I really like them to focus on those things, and that, you know, that includes your big field labor number, that includes your materials, that includes your cost of parts as well. All those things factor in the cost of doing the job.

Yeah.

And one thing to think about when you're looking at that is there's multiple different ways you can kind of attack that and improve on that. It can be anything from pricing, the behaviors within— with your team. It can, it can be some of the, some of the vendors. Maybe you're overspending in some area and you need to look at that.

Mm-hmm.

There's so many different ways you can approach that to have an impact. And so that's what I love about it is those numbers will tell you a story. And then you can kind of manage your business and adjust and improve on things based on what that story tells you.

Yeah, no, that's a lot of good insight right there. And you're right, it does tell a story. And, you know, I just was talking to a member not long ago and, you know, he was an HVAC member and he just said, you know, before getting with the group and kind of learning what my numbers needed to be, I just, I went back And I looked at some of my old jobs and I'm like, holy cow, I used to basically lose money on jobs. I didn't even realize it. He just valued productivity and he thought, if I'm busy enough, I'll make money. And that's just not the case. And so for someone, yeah, let's just dig in a little bit. Labor percentage is just a huge thing. It controls obviously gross margin. That's part of it there. What are some things people can do to maybe get their labor percentage a bit more in line with what our model says, you know, and so our guys can get a little bit more productive or, you know, maybe not use as much, waste as much time. What are some things contractors can do to get that labor percentage in control?

Yeah, I mean, there's a couple ways you can approach it. Of course, the big one we always talk about is, are you priced right? Right. And so, and if you're not priced right, you're never gonna, you're never gonna, be able to stand a fighting chance of hitting that labor percentage. But outside of that, there's so many other things that, that can impact labor. One of them could be you're short-staffed and you're running your guys ragged. You know, overtime pays time and a half, and for the, the amount of overtime you, you pay, you might want to think about, well, can I afford to bring on another Another employee, and I know there's challenges with that, and a lot of them are facing the fact that they're shorthanded, and I understand that. Sure. But if you if you're not facing that challenge, and you just think, well, I'm going to run overtime because I think it's it's gonna it's gonna benefit me in the long run, it not might not necessarily be that case because a like I said, you're paying time and a half. B are you getting the the productivity out of those guys that are working sixty? 50, 60 hours a week versus an additional person where they're all working 40, they're getting their rest, they have their life outside of work is better. You know, all those things can impact their productivity.

Yeah.

And then that leads me to the last one is, are they being efficient with the job? And then that just comes with the training. You know, when we talk about ride-alongs, we talk about the training on a daily, weekly basis, whether it's technical or soft skills or, What, what have you. Um, and, and being efficient and then, and then being detailed. So that's the last one, is, is are they doing the jobs to your expectation and minimizing those callbacks? Because that's going to impact, um, labor when you're going back to a higher percentage of houses that you've already done work on, and now you're just making up for things that, that potentially could have been fixed the first time. So.

Yeah.

There's so many different ways you can manage it.

Absolutely.

No, that's good insight. You know, I think, and sometimes I know it's very counterintuitive for our people, but it's okay to say no, not to take 50 jobs in one day. Or, you know, if you get a good dispatcher, for him or her to understand what the really good opportunities are and make sure those are priority, you know, booked, and then see if someone can move their appointment. So, you know, A lot of it is that as well. It's just trying to manage the calls that you get and realize you don't have to run to every single one every day. 'Cause you're right, you're just gonna kill your people and you're gonna pay more than you need to. And yeah, lots of ways to manage that. A big part, sales, knowing your numbers, operational excellence, these are all critical factors to a business's success. But bottom line, we are in a people business. And to achieve long-term stable success, you have to have good people on your team and they have to be inspired and really wanting to work for you. So, Chris, in your time with us and in talking with lots of big and good businesses, how do the very best service companies kind of create a place where people love to come to work? Where they feel connected to the business and when the business wins, they feel like they win. So how do you create that connection?

Yeah, I mean, there's so many different things that we can dive into here, but I think it starts with what's the, you know, what's the common purpose of your business? What's, what's your core vision? What's your core— and we talk about this all the time, you know, core values, mission, mission statement, vision statement. And, you know, we don't say those just, just to say them. Those, those can be so impactful to a business.

Right.

And having everybody understand what that common purpose is, right? We always used to call it everybody's arrow should be pointing north, right? If you have some people going in different directions on that compass, it's just gonna— it could create tension, it leads to inefficiencies, and ultimately you don't know what your— people that see your business from the outside don't understand what your business is all about and who you are all about. So that's where it really starts for me.

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Welcome back to the show. You're listening to my conversation with Chris Nelson. a success coach with SGI, as we talk about the 3 core elements of every successful business. In the first half of our chat, Chris talked about the importance of knowing your numbers daily so you can make adjustments daily, ultimately resulting in a more successful week, month, and then year. Chris also shared some insights on how you can probably get your most important number right now. Of course, referring to your gross margin. And in part 2 of my conversation with Chris, He will dig deeper into what it takes to build a strong culture, and no surprise, it involves intentional and clear communication and strong leadership. And typically, it's the small interactions that occur daily with your team that mean the most.

It's not always those big things.

So let's jump back into the conversation and learn what Chris has to share with us.

Just in talking with, uh, you know, some, you know, like Jimmy Dale, Baker Brothers, who's an investor in SGI, been a member for 12, 15 years. He always talked about with Baker Brothers, which is, I think they're $60 or $70 million this year, that they use their core values as a way to help managers decide on what they need to do. They don't need to run up the chain of command to make a decision. They go, does this decision fit within our core values and what we stand for as an organization? And if it's yes, then go ahead and move forward. If no, then you should be able to understand what to do next. So you're right. I think, you know, core values and mission, and your mission statement kind of drives everything. And it's kind of like the heart of your culture. At least I've seen that in really successful companies. But, you know, this idea of culture, again, it's kind of an abstract thing. You know, to me, great culture is something that's kind of sensed, right? You walk into an organization or a place of work and You can just get a feeling for places that have a great culture. There's just a positive vibe to it. What are some ways— so you create this core value, these core values, you have a mission statement. Obviously, you need to communicate that to your people so they understand what that is. But how else do you create this idea of culture, good culture in a business? What are some things you've seen?

Yeah, I mean, there's— Some of it's tangible, some of it's not.

Right.

But at the end of the day, it really starts with the leadership and putting thought and effort into what that looks like, right? And so, you know, company outings are a great way to build the team influence, you know, but that's, you know, that's big picture, right? There's so many small things. Like one of the things that's big for me when I come into work is I wanna make sure, I wanna try and make sure that I say hi and greet everybody that I see in the morning and bring a little bit of energy to the office, right? And so if I'm walking into the office and I sit in my chair and just go to work, you know, it's a quiet place, Bob, it really is.

Right.

So, you know, that's, that's where it's, you know, that's, those are the things. And, and there's so many things. So like, think about somebody comes into work and, uh, you know, they, they just found out that their mom went into the hospital or something like that.

Yeah.

There's 2 approaches you can take to that, right? Oh, I'm sorry. And, you know, I hope she gets better, etc., etc.

Right.

Or You know, and I've seen this in my past is, hey, take the day off, call your mom. Do you need to— do you need a week to go see her? Do you need to go visit her? We'll handle things here.

Right.

And allow them to put family first, right? And then they see that come from you. And then, and then in addition, maybe you send flowers to the hospital or something like that. Like, those are things that take thought, take work, and take energy.

Yes.

But there's— they can be so much more impactful, right?

Yes.

And you can do things like celebrating birthdays. You know, we talk about all the time in those group huddles in the mornings is how are we celebrating wins with the team? Who's doing great and what do those things look like?

Exactly.

And, you know, I could go on and on and on, but it's all those things and it's just being cognizant of how you're perceived. But then again, you know, it filters back to what is— what do I want my company to be viewed as from an employee standpoint, from an outsider's perspective? And what do I want to be viewed as? And that's really what it boils down to. And I know none of us want to be viewed as the fearmonger that comes down on everybody and just wants excellence and just wants everything to be perfect. You know, none of us want that.

Yeah.

And so you really have to be cognizant of how that perception Yeah, no, I think you're right.

I mean, we talk to, uh, in our training with, with technicians, we talk about the value of and the importance of strong body language and upbeat attitudes. And, and really, it should go to owners and leaders of businesses as well. When you walk in, to your earlier thought, when you walk into the business, how are you holding yourself? Are you, are you smiling at everyone? Are you saying good morning? You know, are you bringing that vibe where people aren't ducking you in a cube.

Yeah.

Like, who wants to work in a place where you got to dive under a desk because you don't want to say hi to the guy who's your leader? I think there's a ton of value in that. And then, you know, the other thing you brought up, I think really that I know that great companies do is celebrating the little wins. You know, in those training meetings, great companies go over the scoreboard numbers and really celebrate the wins and keep it positive. And they make the person stand up and embarrass, you know, I say embarrass them, but make them feel good, right? Even they, you know, they get a little, turn a little red, but you know what does feel good? To be recognized. And I think also the idea of just telling your people thank you whenever you get a chance to get together with them and just saying, hey, you guys are hitting your numbers and, you know, we're getting great reviews. Thank you for all your hard work. We know it's not easy. So, it's not, you're right. Those company outing things are fun. But it's the little stuff, I think, that really touches people.

Yeah, absolutely. And another thing I'd like to add to that is just get to know your people from an individual standpoint. And, you know, we talk about those monthly one-on-ones, but, you know, just small little conversations, sidebar conversations sometimes will be helpful. I go back to my days at Topgolf, and I had one associate that— and we love to kind of pump people up in these pre-shifts, is what we call them, and celebrate wins. Well, I had one particular associate who was a little bit on the shy side and didn't really want that public recognition.

Yeah.

And so with conversations with her, I figured out how to best you know, invigorate her to, to, to want to be at Topgolf and want to work. And it wasn't by having these big grandiose celebrations for her. It was having those little sidebar, thank you for doing this.

Yeah.

This is— I want you, I want you to know we appreciate all the hard work you do.

Yeah.

Specifically to something she did on a certain day or something. But it is really about getting to know your people because not everybody You know, responds in the same way in that sense either. So—

No, no, that's a really good point. But, and it speaks to, you know, the value of taking your time and getting to know your people. That's great. And if that's what it takes to make someone feel good about work that day, is understanding it's the personal one-on-one interaction that— I mean, that's all that much more powerful because that person will be even more motivated than if you had him or her stand up. So yeah, so basically at the core of great culture is great leadership. And so just be interested because I think all of us that have been working for long enough and have been in successful organizations, we can think of certain leaders. And it might even be from school, coaches or teachers that made a big impact. Can you think of anyone? I'm just interested in your life, Chris, that's, that You know, really what they taught you and how they acted and treated you impacted how you work at App today?

Yeah, I mean, so I would probably point to probably my last 3 leaders, direct reports, whatever you want to call them. Then, you know, I would throw Abigail in that boat as well. And, you know, the big things that that stuck with me is how great of a communicator they were.

Right.

And the fact that they all have a vision, right? And so they understand who they are, what they want to be, what they want their department or company to be, and where they're going. And they communicated that on a consistent basis, not only to me but to the entire team. And it really makes a difference because everything, like I said before, you know, everybody's arrow pointing north. If that leader is— does not communicate that vision properly. Yep. Every, you know, everybody's kind of doing their own thing and, and not really sure how to proceed when it comes to the day-to-day operations. So it's important to, to keep everyone informed, keep everyone on the same page, and communicate that daily.

That's true. So go ahead.

Oh no, no, you're good, you're good.

No, I was gonna say that's a really good point because I think what happens all too often And especially service businesses. If the owner, if the leader doesn't communicate the big goal like this, these are the goals we have and this is what we're trying to do to accomplish those. And here's the status every couple of weeks or a month or so. And this is what, you know, this is how it'll benefit you too. Here's a big carrot. Like it just comes, the job becomes mundane. I have to book so many calls today. I have to, Flip so many leads today. I have to have an average ticket of this. I have to have, you know, and then it just gets— there's a lot less— I don't know, you just don't feel like you're working towards something. You're just trying to check a box. So I think that's great to, you know, setting goals and communicating them and letting everyone know where we are. I think it's just such a huge thing. You're right on the money with that. So if a member asked you, because we do get some of these people that never really had to manage many people. Maybe they've kind of been a one guy in a truck or they've had a few employees, but they aspire to build a real big business over time. But if a member asks you how they can improve their leadership and their communication capabilities, what's something you might advise them to do?

Well, I think from my experience, the 2 things that I really focused on was my one-on-one communication skills. And that doesn't happen overnight.

Right.

Your conversations, whether they're difficult, whether they're coaching conversations, whether they're monthly reviews, annual reviews, those don't— those things don't just organically become great, right? So it's having those conversations. And in those conversations, really ask at the end of the conversation, what else can I do for you? What, what, what do you need from me to make your job easier, make your job better?

Right.

And get some, get some feedback from them on, on how you're communicating, how the conversation is going. Ultimately, you know, you, you are the leader and you are the one that's going to be coaching them and making those decisions. But for you to be an effective communicator, you really need to get that feedback from them. And then analyze yourself, you know, like analyze yourself after, after a conversation. How did it go? Did it go well? Were there opportunities? What were those opportunities? How can I make adjustments next time so that that becomes a more effective conversation and they get more out of it?

Mm-hmm.

So that's one thing I've really focused on. The other one was, uh, and, and this is something I really didn't touch on, on in your previous question, but how do you present yourself? You know, how do you command a room? How do you lead by example? And you really have to be an effective communicator in front of a large group and really hone in on that. And that takes time as well, you know.

Sure.

It's your body posture, how you're talking, you know. Are you— do you have an agenda or are you just talking off the cuff, you know? And sometimes when you do that, it can give the appearance of, I don't really know what I'm doing. I don't know what the company is doing.

Right. Nothing inspires confidence like someone who's muttering up in front of 30 people. Yeah.

100%. So, so yeah, I mean, you have to, you have to be organized and it takes practice. You know, I'm learning something each and every time I get in front of a group and I get feedback from, from my fellow coaches. I get feedback from Abigail because I want to be the best that I possibly can be for for the members, you know, and I want to be able to have an impact in what I'm teaching them and make sure that they're receiving the message. And so it's very similar to somebody that's leading a company. They have to be able to take feedback, receive positive, constructive, and a little bit of criticism and, you know, kind of hone in on that, and, and that will help in the long run for sure. So that's good stuff.

No, I'm glad you brought up the one-on-ones and the individual conversations. I know that's something we've really tried to stress the last couple years, um, but, you know, in doing it regularly, and even if you're an owner of a large business listening to this, that the biggest companies we work with, $80 million plus, They have, you know, trickle-down management talks to the people that they're responsible for at least once a week, just a check-in, you know, and just to see how they're doing and ask a few questions because it communicates so much. First, that you care. Second, what's going on with them? How can, like you said, how can we better serve you so you can do your job better? And it really, you're right, that idea of regular communication really builds a strong culture because again, those employees see that you care about their development, just care about them as a person. And when people are happier with where they work, they're more productive. It just is a fact. So good stuff there, Chris. So just, hey, last question for you is just any last parting advice for listeners on how to become better stewards of their numbers, how to create a stronger culture, or how to be a better leader? Just anything in general.

Yeah, so a couple of things. I think one thing, I think what everybody should understand is, like I said before, no matter how well you're running your numbers, no matter how much you've worked on your culture, no matter how much you've worked on being a great leader, you're still gonna run into bumps down the road and you're still gonna have things to work on. What's great about SGI is we have so many different tools. We have great coaches there to help you along the way. And I would just advise everyone to stay committed and stick to the program and stay in contact with us, stay in contact with the community.

Yes.

Because you're, you know, all those tools there and all those outlets for more knowledge on how to run your business are there. You just have to use them.

Yep.

The other thing I would say Is, and this goes back to the leadership conversation that we were having, is with every great leader, there's, there's equally a great team. And for people to, to have a great company and a great culture and all those things, understand that you have to have a great team and you have to trust and believe in your team that they're going to perform. And that's so important. And people, that's, I think that's a little bit understated because people feel like as a leader, they're just gonna, they're gonna have all the impact and they're going to make everything happen. Well, that's not necessarily the case. Empowerment is huge.

Yes.

And training, teaching, coaching, all those things, and then let your team perform. And that's what coaches do in sports. That's what we should do in business as well.

No, that's a really good point. And empowering people to do their jobs and to do well, and then understanding sometimes, and I don't wanna end this on a negative note, but sometimes you just understanding that you don't have the right people on the bus. And I know we see that a lot with new members that come in and maybe they're changing disciplines from, I was just thinking of Serious Plumbing and Air Conditioning who I interviewed and we featured last week. They had managers that just did not want to do, you know, didn't want to do retail work, which is what we are.

Yeah.

And sometimes you can have, and they had conversations with the managers over and over and over about this is where we're going to go and this is what we need to do. And ultimately the managers left. And, but as a result, their business got better. They actually were able to elevate technicians that were bought in and understood how to communicate. And they saw some potential in them and they had become great managers and they had younger people, newer people to move up into the technicians' roles from, let's say, apprentices. And it's just the progression. So yeah, you're absolutely right, you know, empower your people and then also make sure you have the right people on the bus because, uh, you know, one doesn't work without the other.

So I couldn't agree, I couldn't agree more.

Yeah, for sure. So Chris, thank you so much for your time today. I know you had a busy week last week with EP and helping lots of members and, uh, I know you've got probably plenty of phone calls that you could be taking right now to help people. So thanks for taking some time with me. I appreciate it.

Bob, I appreciate it as always. All right, buddy.

Have a great rest of your day and we'll talk soon.

All right. Thanks, Bob. Thank you.

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